S01.E04: Science and Magic

[formerlyfreedom]

Dorothy and Lucas are approached by a mysterious young girl who has lost her way. Following a tragic accident, Tip finds herself caught between two powerful forces - Glinda and West. Elsewhere, the Wizard pays a visit to a village and exacts his authority over its citizens. Meanwhile, Jack has a life-changing experience that leads him on a surprising new path with a unique woman.

 

[Primetimer]

Slaughter and metaphors and whores, oh my!

View the full article

[Morrigan2575]

I really liked this episode, glad we're getting movement. I found it interesting that for all the Nun/whore symbolisms of North and West, there isn't much difference between them. North recruits young orphaned girls and basically makes them servants.

I liked Tip's story, at the beginning when she was contemplating suicide and I liked her in the scenes with North/West. However, that one scene with the screeching and yelling just didn't work for me. 

I found the Jack scenes interesting and I'm curious about Lady Ev (who obviously lost her face). One thing that really bugged me was the timeline. The show implied a long/slow recovery for Jack and he developed a relationship with Jane yet other scenes seemed to imply very little time passing. I wonder if we're supposed to see that all of this traveling takes a lot longer than it looks like? 

I still feel that the relationship between Dorothy and Lucas is forced and rushed but, they have chemistry. So far, it hasn't detracted from the show, so I'm OK with it.

I wonder who the little girl is? Does she have powers or is the Beast Forever using her? She doesn't seem evil or wanting to hurt people. 

[KingOfHearts]

I'm actually beginning to grow fond of this show. This week, there was just more going on. I'm going to keep watching!

* I'll confess - I was practically drooling over the steampunk visuals in Ev.
* The Jack/Tin Man reveal was pretty great. It's a clever idea that I've never seen in any other Oz adaptation.
* Langwidere is curiously eccentric, as she should be.
* "So you're telling my choice as a young girl is to either be a nun or a whore?" Best line of the episode.
* Shady Glinda is shady. Give me more West.
* I'm digging the Anna/Wizard relationship, even if it doesn't go romantic.
* Dang, Anna's pretty without her headdress.
* I have to praise the visuals in Glinda's cult orphanage. It's austere and seemingly pure, just like her.

Quote

I still feel that the relationship between Dorothy and Lucas is forced and rushed but, they have chemistry. So far, it hasn't detracted from the show, so I'm OK with it.

The iPod scene was cringey to me. I thought Dorothy and Lucas had chemistry as well, but I didn't want them to rush into a romance. They don't always seem to trust each other. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Cthulhudrew]

Ah, so there's our Tin Man. I should have figured out that Jack's broken heart would be the missing link there.

Eamonn seemed a bit shaky at the end there, I'm guessing he's very badly wounded. He also didn't seem to be angry at discovering Lucas was alive (though I'm not sure how he was able to distinguish that sword from the other Wizards' swords). I'm guessing they were comrades in arms? Brothers? Maybe lovers? 

I'm also thinking that this "cowardly lion" stand-in's bravery is going to be finding the courage to stand up against the Wizard.

(Perhaps by discovering that the reason Lucas was put to the sword was because of some skulduggery the Wizard had been up to and trying to keep quiet.)

Edited January 21, 2017 by Cthulhudrew

[thuganomics85]

Jack is alive and basically the Tin Man now!  Nice!  But he's now pretty much been sold to this Princess or Lady or whatever she is.  I'm guessing the reasons for the mask is something really bad happen to her face.

Tip continues to be one of the highlights.  I liked her little line about "So, my choices as a young girl are either being a nun or a whore," when both Glinda and West made their pitches. Not surprised she picked West, but mainly because she is interested in using her magic and not the whole prostitution bit.

Wizard be creeping!  Watch out, Anna! 

They did seem to jump-start Dorothy and Lucas' romantic feelings real quick.  Of course, this means they are now separated.  And the guy hunting them totally knows who Lucas is and was surprised that he was still alive.

No idea what to make of the little girl and her stone-turning powers.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

No idea what to make of the little girl and her stone-turning powers.

Responding in the Books thread.

Quote

Those were some nice, unsettling effects with the creepy little girl. 

This show is good at keeping the audience slightly uncomfortable the whole time. (In a good way.)

Edited January 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Senna]

I really liked this episode as well.  Those were some nice, unsettling effects with the creepy little girl.  Tip's storyline was intriguing, and I loved the "my only choice as a girl is a nun or a whore?" line. 

With this episode, Jack has also come into his own.  It was kind of sweet that the first thing he was thinking about on waking was Tip.  (Did I imagine it, or was his metal side switched between the opening sequence and his next scene?  -- Just realized I was probably looking at the mirror.)  I'm intrigued by the city of Ev and its rulers, though I found the princess herself to be quite annoying and shrill.  I was expecting her to be revealed as robot or something with her off manner of speaking.

I think Lucas/Roan (per the CC) remembers more than he's said.  I think he recognizes the guard.

I was wondering if I missed the why of Nimbo's massacre, but it sounds like the recapper found it somewhat mysterious too (I get that there was magic and that was "bad" but that's about it).  And on a random note, it was interesting to see Anna's hood off and realize ... I didn't expect her to be a blonde.  I guess it stands out since she has such dark eyebrows, so she's most likely a bottle blonde, and why is a nun dying her hair, which she keeps covered all the time?  (But I know I am overthinking it ;) )

[LittleIggy]

I just love this show! I'm terrified that it is too different for network tv. NBC at least gives chances to shows like Hannibal and Grimm, so here is hoping. Sean Cassidy created one of my fave shows ever - "American Gothic" with Gary Cole. Unfortunately, it was only one season.

Where was Toto at the end? I adore that dog. He has such a handsome, intelligent face.

[Cthulhudrew]

Ah, the recap pointed out some things I didn't know (or notice) before, notably that Lucas was hanging from a cross with the name Nimbo on it, which happens to be the name of the town. Given that, I now surmise...

The Wizard had Nimbo put to the torch because they were harboring Sylvia, the Last Gorgon. Lucas was the Wizard's Guard sent to do this, but upon discovering that the "evil" witch was a little girl, took a moral stance and was subsequently beaten and pinned to a cross to slowly die and leave a message to all who would oppose the Wizard. 

Eamonn, Lucas's best friend (and lover?) confronted the Wizard to know what happened, and was lied to ("The villagers did it!" or "He was a traitor!" or even "He slipped on a rock and brained himself." Because he's the Scarecrow and missing his brain, get it? I'll be here all week, folks.)

This explains a) why Nimbo was burned, b) why Sylvia rushed to Lucas' protective arms, c) why the "family" was so eager to get Sylvia back (so they could turn her over to the Wizard and spare their town further injury, and maybe line their own pockets. Hey- civic service isn't always its own reward!), and d) I'm not really sure it necessarily explains anything else, but it surely sets up the explanation for why Lucas ended up where he was, why Eamonn will eventually turn on the Wizard and join the gang, and probably other stuff, too.

Also, e) it demonstrates why following the Brick Road is a good idea. Because if you don't, you end up turning around in circles and going back to where you started the whole dang adventure in the first place. Either that, or the Land of Oz only occupies a few square miles worth of terrain, because otherwise why would Dorothy and Lucas just keep moving back and forth between the same two locations?

[CatWarmer]

For some reason, this episode wasn't on in San Diego - they showed two episodes of American Ninja Warrier and that's also what NBC dot com said was on.  Did this happen in any other markets?  I'm so confused!  Hopefully I can find it On Demand in the next week. 

[sjohnson]

Spoiler

If Ozma was so interested in magic, she would have talked to Mombi. Also, a princess spouting feminist dialogue doesn't work the way the show wants, at least not for me. Jack coming back to life safely removes any consequences for her (especially since the show made it clear that Jack wasn't literally emasculated,) but of course feeling bad for a little while was all it really took to redeem her. Evidently the show really expects us to believe it was purely an accident that Jack fell, and besides it was his own fault, and he really deserved it. 

 

But the show really, really looks good. Much more variety than Game of Thrones in the visuals. Even the costuming is more imaginative. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by saoirse
Spoiler tag added

[zxy556575]

Spoiler

29 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

If Ozma was so interested in magic, she would have talked to Mombi. Also, a princess spouting feminist dialogue doesn't work the way the show wants, at least not for me. Jack coming back to life safely removes any consequences for her (especially since the show made it clear that Jack wasn't literally emasculated,) but of course feeling bad for a little while was all it really took to redeem her. Evidently the show really expects us to believe it was purely an accident that Jack fell, and besides it was his own fault, and he really deserved it. 

Is Tip supposed to be Ozma? I think I missed that.

I'm enjoying all the subplots equally. But people have called me easy before.

If the scene with Tip going under water while she was in the tub with West supposed to indicate something sexual, just ew. She's still a child, any potential future work in the brothel notwithstanding.

[Fireball]

8 hours ago, Senna said:

  And on a random note, it was interesting to see Anna's hood off and realize ... I didn't expect her to be a blonde.  I guess it stands out since she has such dark eyebrows, so she's most likely a bottle blonde, and why is a nun dying her hair, which she keeps covered all the time?  (But I know I am overthinking it ;) )

Haha I was thinking the same thing! Her blonde hair really was odd looking with such dark brown eyes and if you're a nun why dye your hair?

[phoenics]

sjohnson - when you said:

Quote

Spoiler

 

Jack coming back to life safely removes any consequences for her (especially since the show made it clear that Jack wasn't literally emasculated,) but of course feeling bad for a little while was all it really took to redeem her. Evidently the show really expects us to believe it was purely an accident that Jack fell, and besides it was his own fault, and he really deserved it.

 

 

I wasn't sure if you meant that Tip intentionally pushed him off the roof?  Because I've watched that scene several times and didn't get that.  She was very angry and lost sight of where they were standing, definitely, but I do not believe she meant to push Tip off the roof.  First of all - they were standing parallel to the roof edge when she pushed him in the shot and then as he fell they were perpendicular to it.  That's why it felt so jarring to me (and horrifying) that he fell off the roof.  They originally weren't standing in the right direction for it.  

Also - I don't think the show is trying to say that Jack deserved to be pushed off a balcony or that it was even his fault - just a horrible accident?  Tip was about to kill her/himself afterwards - she wasn't just "feeling bad".  And now, she's aligned herself with West so she can use magic to make herself forget the whole thing because she really believes that Jack is dead.

All in all, I really enjoyed this episode.  I knew Isabel Lucas' hair was blond - so not surprised to see it there.  I LOVE Lucas and Dorothy, even if this romance feels a bit rushed - but now they are separated so - angst!  They could have gotten to that though even without a kiss so early, but I am NOT complaining, lol.  Lucas is hot.  I love their whole dynamic.  

I think Lucas definitely turned on the Wizard in that town and that's why he was nailed to the cross, as someone else said.  I wonder if Eamonn is his brother or friend or ?  He clearly knows him and seems to care about him.  Though how he's not bleeding out due to the bullet wound is beyond me.  He must have ridden half the night to find them.  The Wizard Guard already hates him (I still don't fully get why they turned on him so fast that they wanted to kill him) - but he's very loyal to The Wizard.  I like Cthulhudrew's theory that he's going to find out that The Wizard is a sham and they are doing things to keep him in power that are wrong and hurting innocent people and his story will be turning against the Wizard and having the courage to overthrow him.

What was the swirling light thing down in the tunnel?  I missed some parts here - guess I'll have to rewatch on my itunes pass.  Was that magic they were hoarding?  Also I feel like I missed something - were part of the scenes for Nimbe flashbacks?  Because the scene of the guards carrying out burnt limbs - didn't we see that in Momba's memory?

The Lady/Princess Ev - I don't like her, lol.

Poor Jack.  That must have been horrifying to wake up like that.

Anna/Wizard - talk about fast.  His fixation on her feels rushed, out of place and weird.  So was her "I won't tell anyone, not even Glinda" mess in episode 3.  She met him in what - episode 2?  3?  I'm just creeped out by it.  Isabel Lucas always has a weirdness about her in any movie she's in.  So I guess she's a good fit for creepy wizard, but I'm still creeped out by it.

Tip definitely had the best line of the night.  "So my only two choices are nun, or whore."  That needs to be framed and put on a wall, lol.

Edited January 22, 2017 by phoenics
Spoiler tag added

[nx74defiant]

Tip's interest in magic:

When she tried to get more of her  medicine she was told it was magic. I think she wants West's magic for the medicine to be a boy again.

Edited January 21, 2017 by nx74defiant
Spelling

[phoenics]

46 minutes ago, nx74defiant said:

Tip's interest in magic:

When she tried to get more of her  medicine she was told it was magic. I think she wants West's magic for the medicine to be a boy again.

That makes so much more sense than what I said, lol!  

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, nx74defiant said:

Tip's interest in magic:

When she tried to get more of her  medicine she was told it was magic. I think she wants West's magic for the medicine to be a boy again.

That's interesting, it never even occurred to me that she wanted magic for that reason. I just thought she wanted to learn magic so she could have some sort of power/independence

[adam807]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Also, e) it demonstrates why following the Brick Road is a good idea. Because if you don't, you end up turning around in circles and going back to where you started the whole dang adventure in the first place. Either that, or the Land of Oz only occupies a few square miles worth of terrain, because otherwise why would Dorothy and Lucas just keep moving back and forth between the same two locations?

I believe the town Dorothy and Lucas were in was not Nimbo. They just assumed the girl was from this town because it was closest to where they found her. (I'm not saying she is or isn't from Nimbo or from that town, just that that's how they wound up there.)

11 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

* Langwidere

Ah, thank you for the correct spelling of this! I'd tried to look her up but heard it wrong and her official credit is only "Lady Ev." Guess I should get to that third book!

[Fireball]

Well I was completely wrong about who the Tin Man was. Poor Jack; I’m glad he didn’t die but wow he’s been through a lot in a short time. 1) Finds out best friend Tip is a girl 2) Tip pushes him causing him to fall 3) Tip just leaves him 4) becomes 98% machine (does he have any of his original extremities left?) 5) is sold to Lady Ev

Lady Princesses Ev, over thinking here, but why not keep your masks in your room? When Ev came into Jane’s workshop she said “who should I be today” which makes it seem like she changes her masks every day. If the masks need constant maintenance you think she’d just make Jane come to her.

Tip, as others have said, had the best line of the night "So, my choices as a young girl are either being a nun or a whore”. Tip’s interest in magic is intriguing; hopefully, we won't have to see her become a prostitution. Also Tip in the future don’t go off with a guy you just met it never ends well.

Anna the writers need to be careful and not turn her into a “know it all”. Also I found her blonde blonde hair weird and distracting. Does she dye it or is it a wig? Either way why? She’s a nun who always wears a funny blue hat.  

The Wizard really isn’t a nice guy is he? Burn people threaten an unborn baby etc... Also his new fixation with Anna is so creepy. Anyone else notice how the camera focused on Anna’s uncovered skin?

Dorothy and Lucas do have chemistry, but that kiss happened way way way too soon. Last week Dorothy was understandably a bit freaked out after Lucas killed the witch, but I guess that’s all forgotten now?

Edited January 23, 2017 by Fireball

[iMonrey]

This show can be rewarding for those of us who've read the books. I knew the lady in the mask was going to turn out to be Langwidere right away. On the other hand it can be equally frustrating: the whole thing with the Wizard and Anna is too far removed from the books to hold my interest, frankly. Not sure how I feel about Jack turning into the Tin Man either. I think I would have preferred those to remain two separate characters.

[Fireball]

11 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I just love this show! I'm terrified that it is too different for network tv. NBC at least gives chances to shows like Hannibal and Grimm, so here is hoping. Sean Cassidy created one of my fave shows ever - "American Gothic" with Gary Cole. Unfortunately, it was only one season.

Where was Toto at the end? I adore that dog. He has such a handsome, intelligent face.

Me too! I have some complaints Dorothy & Lucas rushed romance, but I really do like the show. Which of course means it'll be canceled. Also love Toto!!

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Anna/Wizard - talk about fast.  His fixation on her feels rushed, out of place and weird.  So was her "I won't tell anyone, not even Glinda" mess in episode 3.  She met him in what - episode 2?  3?  I'm just creeped out by it.  Isabel Lucas always has a weirdness about her in any movie she's in.  So I guess she's a good fit for creepy wizard, but I'm still creeped out by it.

Totally agree. The whole Anna/Wizard thing moved way to fast and is very creepy! I guess the writers are going for a doomed romance. They both "love" each other but can't be together because Anna takes her vow seriously. Idk Maybe Anna is playing him to get more power. But her whole I won't tell Glinda last episode and her I won't tell anyone you can't control the giants this episode felt like she was a bit in love. Or maybe the Wizard staring at Anna is supposed to come a crossed as he thinks of her as a daughter and Anna insistence that she won't tell is supposed to come a crossed as she views the Wizard as a father figure. Idk it seemed creepy to me.

[phoenics]

Well her talking about how she took a vow doesn't make it sound like she and the Wizard are fighting father/daughter feelings... 

[Fireball]

14 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Well her talking about how she took a vow doesn't make it sound like she and the Wizard are fighting father/daughter feelings... 

Haha good point! I was trying to see the scene in different ways, but I forgot that if she saw the Wizard as a father figure than she wouldn't have talked about taking her vow seriously.  

Edited January 21, 2017 by Fireball

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm confused. Is Dorothy supposed to be The Beast?

14 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Where was Toto at the end?

He was lying next to the girl by the tree.

[Fireball]

15 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This show is good at keeping the audience slightly uncomfortable the whole time. (In a good way.)

The scene I found very uncomfortable was Jane with the circular saw. I know someone who lost three fingers to a circular saw, so scenes like that one just make me cringe.

The little girl who turns people onto stone was also unsettling.

[Ripley68]

Yay!  Another episode I liked!  I'm thinking West might know who Tip really is?   I wonder who does know (besides Mombi) who Tip really is.  Also, when will Mombi come back? They definitely showed her arm moving in the last episode she was in.  I don't think Dorothy and Lucas moved too fast.  They've been together several days and been through a couple of stressful situations together.  What happened to the rocking red dress she was wearing last time we saw her?

[tanita]

YESSSSSS !!!! My Jack as Tin Man theory from last week came true !!!!!!

[walnutqueen]

15 hours ago, CatWarmer said:

For some reason, this episode wasn't on in San Diego - they showed two episodes of American Ninja Warrier and that's also what NBC dot com said was on.  Did this happen in any other markets?  I'm so confused!  Hopefully I can find it On Demand in the next week. 

Oh, that's what happened?  I was blaming my ancient DVR!  I caught it On Demand this morning, though (ATT Uverse).

I'm very much enjoying this series as a stand-alone.  I've never read any of the books; nor have I watched any of the movies, other than the original many years ago.  So I can get to know the characters without any preconceived notions, which only enhances my viewing experience.

[Ariah]

Still in love with the series, still having no problems with Dorothy / Lucas romance.

Still nitpicking:

- the flashback Mombi had in episode 01/02 was exactly the same scene we saw today. Bad editing, bad.

- How did Eammon know Dorothy was the girl who fell from the sky? Did Ojo give him a detailed portrait?

- The speed of travelling is mind-boggling and totally inconsistent.

[jhlipton]

Just now, Lord Donia said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Is Tip supposed to be Ozma? I think I missed that.

If the scene with Tip going under water while she was in the tub with West supposed to indicate something sexual, just ew. She's still a child,

The actress is in her 20s, I think.  And they made it sound like Mombi kept Tip for quite a while.  Maybe the "medicine" kept her young as well as a boy.

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

That's interesting, it never even occurred to me that she wanted magic for that reason. I just thought she wanted to learn magic so she could have some sort of power/independence

Or both...

Things that crack me up:
Dorothy: "He has a name!"
Toto: "And it isn't 'Dog'!"

[attica]

Gina McKee, the actor playing Jane, is well known to folk who like British tv. (Maybe most famous hereabouts for playing Irene Forsyte in The Forsyte Saga?) Her North American accent is very bad. And why should the character even have one?

I super super wanted the Wizard, during his interrogation of the Alderman, to bend over Bobby Goren-style to ask his questions. I was left disappointed.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, Ariah said:

Still in love with the series, still having no problems with Dorothy / Lucas romance.

Still nitpicking:

- the flashback Mombi had in episode 01/02 was exactly the same scene we saw today. Bad editing, bad.

- How did Eammon know Dorothy was the girl who fell from the sky? Did Ojo give him a detailed portrait?

- The speed of travelling is mind-boggling and totally inconsistent.

I was trying to figure out how Eammon knew that was Dorothy - unless Ojo gave him the description - but even then, how many dark haired women are in Oz?  That was weird.

I was also confused by the Mombi flashback and the scene with them bringing in the dead body from the fire.  That's why I thought it was a flashback scene at first too in the same city, but now I'm just confused.

2 hours ago, attica said:

Gina McKee, the actor playing Jane, is well known to folk who like British tv. (Maybe most famous hereabouts for playing Irene Forsyte in The Forsyte Saga?) Her North American accent is very bad. And why should the character even have one?

I super super wanted the Wizard, during his interrogation of the Alderman, to bend over Bobby Goren-style to ask his questions. I was left disappointed.

Wasn't she also the friend of Hugh Grant's character who was in the wheelchair in Notting Hill?  That's where I remember her from.

[LittleIggy]

Thanks! I was trying to figure out who was playing Jane. My TV picture ratio cuts the beginning credits.

[xqueenfrostine]

16 hours ago, Lord Donia said:

  Hide contents

Is Tip supposed to be Ozma? I think I missed that.

 

Spoiler

The show hasn't established that Tip is Ozma, but in the books, Tip=Ozma.  It seems likely that that's Tip's true identity on the show, though whether the show intends Ozma to be a princess/future queen in their universe remains to be seen.

I'm equally enthralled and creeped out by the Steampunk fantasyland that is Ev.  Jack as the Tin Man is perfect for this universe, but I find him so unsettling to behold.  I know the canon version of the Tinman was also an amputee story, but it's so much harder to forget that with Jack, since he still has his head and part of his torso.

[attica]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Wasn't she also the friend of Hugh Grant's character who was in the wheelchair in Notting Hill?  That's where I remember her from.

Yep! Plus Clive Owen's girlfriend in Croupier. But maybe I'm the only one who's ever seen that movie...

[zxy556575]

19 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Jack as the Tin Man is perfect for this universe, but I find him so unsettling to behold.

At least Jack got his clothes back to cover that shit up. The leather collar around his neck disturbed me, in a choke-y way.

Are we anticipating anything good to come to him at Ev? Yeah, didn't think so.

[Camera One]

This episode was pretty consistent with the ones before.  It's mildly interesting, but not overly intriguing.  A lot of this episode felt like it was dancing around the actual motives of Glinda, West, the Wizard, Anna, Lady Ev, etc.  I can't say I care too much about any of the mythology they're building on, at least so far. 

Meanwhile, Dorothy (as Lucas said) just rushes headlong into situations with no planning.  We also got zero answers about the girl, or why those two people were trying to take her.  

I have mixed feelings about Jack becoming the Tin Man.  I thought maybe he would become Jack Pumpkinhead when they uncovered the blanket, so at least this is less disturbing than that.  

Princess Languidere was scarier in "Return to Oz" with actual heads.  Not sure I care why she's obsessed with Jack, but I do find him the most likeable characters of the bunch.

I enjoyed Tip's storyline last week with Jack, but by herself, I don't find her too interesting.  

Overall, I still find the show takes itself way too seriously.  The location shots do a good job of keeping it atmospheric.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Camera One

[bikebrh]

Spoiler

IN the books, (She appears in the third book, Ozma of Oz) Princess Langwidere has 30-some separate heads, not masks that she uses. In the movie "Return to OZ" the characters of Mombi and Princess Langwidere are combined, which is why you might think that Mombi had interchangeable heads.

As far as Dorothy's I-Phone goes, she probably turned it off when she realized it was useless, therefore would not have drained the charge.

The thing about this show that confuses me, though, is that goofy armor that the soldiers have. Armor is usually designed to make a sword blade glance off of it. This armor with all the weird angles and corners looks like it's designed to catch and angle a blade into your body. It's the exact opposite of what armor is supposed to do.

On 1/21/2017 at 6:26 PM, jhlipton said:

On 1/21/2017 at 6:27 AM, Lord Donia said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Is Tip supposed to be Ozma? I think I missed that.

If the scene with Tip going under water while she was in the tub with West supposed to indicate something sexual, just ew. She's still a child,

The actress is in her 20s, I think.  And they made it sound like Mombi kept Tip for quite a while.  Maybe the "medicine" kept her young as well as a boy.

On 1/21/2017 at 9:50 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

That's interesting, it never even occurred to me that she wanted magic for that reason. I just thought she wanted to learn magic so she could have some sort of power/independence

Or both...

Things that crack me up:
Dorothy: "He has a name!"
Toto: "And it isn't 'Dog'!"

Going by the cleavage she sports as a woman, I'm assuming that Tip is at least in her late teens. In the books she is younger, but Dorothy was also pre-pubescent in the books, so clearly they are aging up all the kid characters.

Edited January 22, 2017 by bikebrh
add spoiler tag

[cooksdelight]

I guess the guards knew it was Dorothy because she was waltzing around with that sword, the handle clearly visible, and they somehow knew that Lucas was traveling with the woman who fell from the sky. 

I'm not sure I'd want to be dragging around a little girl who can turn people to stone when she gets scared or upset.

I'm wondering what's behind Ev's mask? My first thought was a black hole filled with stars, based on that thing that blasted Oz's counselor and almost killed her.

[dargosmydaddy]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I guess the guards knew it was Dorothy because she was waltzing around with that sword, the handle clearly visible, and they somehow knew that Lucas was traveling with the woman who fell from the sky. 

But considering how shocked Eammon was to see Lucas/ Roan, they obviously didn't know the two were travelling together, or even that he was still alive.

I love this show so much... intriguing characters and situations, and it's just such a visual treat, too.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I dont Think the Sword belongs to Lucas ,Eammon sayed he was looking for the Owner of the sword a long Time but as Lucas showed up he looked surprised and sayed: Its You Roan .

[tennisgurl]

I am still really enjoying this, especially the visuals, which are the perfect combination of intriguing and creepy.

I LOVE the steampunk city and its aesthetic and technology. This is what I want in a show like this. Lots of interesting and unique fantasy settings and characters. Its also a pretty creepy place apparently. Poor Jack. Looks like he will be our Tin Man this evening, complete with steampunk heart. Poor guy, he is just having the worst kind of day. Gets shoved off a building after having confusing feelings for his BFF, wakes up being cut apart with a hacksaw, turned into a steampunk cyborg, then given to a mask wearing princess as a present. Damn.

"Those are my choices, a nun or a whore?" Tip, I like you. I also cracked up at the two witches reactions to that. Kind of like "Well, when you put it like that..."

The magic little girl was very unsettling. She does not seem to be malevolent at all, but she is a little kid who has clearly been through something awful, and has powers she cant control she uses when threatened. Not a great combination. The captain of the guard should consider himself lucky he just got shot, and not turned into stone or something.

Normally I would say Lucas and Dorothy are moving too fast, but they have been through a lot together already, and the actors have a ton of chemistry, so I`m alright with it. Did that scene remind anyone of that scene in Guardians of the Galaxy when Peter is flirting with Gamora through his Discman? So, basically, if your into a person from another universe/planet, pull out your earplugs (and I hope it goes more like how it went for Dorothy, and not like Peter).

[zxy556575]

The show has so much magic. Mostly how girl Tip got all that hair under her boy Tip wig.

[sjohnson]

Alternative theory: Tip's hair is CGI

[call me ishmael]

1 hour ago, sjohnson said:

Alternative theory: Tip's hair is CGI

Only if you mean when it was short.  The long hair is the actresses.

[Fireball]

23 hours ago, attica said:

Gina McKee, the actor playing Jane, is well known to folk who like British tv. (Maybe most famous hereabouts for playing Irene Forsyte in The Forsyte Saga?) Her North American accent is very bad. And why should the character even have one?

It took me forever to place where I'd seen the actress, but it finally come to me that she's Caterina Sforza on The Borgias.  The Forsyte Saga I forgot that she was also in that; I didn't particularly like her character in that show.

[NJRadioGuy]

I just have one big continuity problem. How did Dorothy get her old clothes back? Last we see her in E3, she's heading for the road in full East costume, and a giant hole blown through the East castle when the tornado evaporated. Dorothy didn't look like she was heading back for her old stuff. That needed to be explained story-wise.

Edited January 23, 2017 by NJRadioGuy

[KingOfHearts]

On 1/22/2017 at 0:08 AM, Camera One said:

I enjoyed Tip's storyline last week with Jack, but by herself, I don't find her too interesting.  

Tip gives me bad memories of Merida, Camera One. She's abrasive and independent, and that's supposed to be charming or something. I think her reaction to everything is understandable, and she's not a bad person, but there's nothing there that makes her enjoyable or interesting. She's mostly just a distraught victim. 

Spoiler

I take no comfort in the fact she's going to be Princess Freaking Ozma.

 

On 1/22/2017 at 0:08 AM, Camera One said:

Meanwhile, Dorothy (as Lucas said) just rushes headlong into situations with no planning.  We also got zero answers about the girl, or why those two people were trying to take her.

This show keeps piling on new mysteries instead of solving old ones. No questions have really been answered since the Pilot. We still don't know who Dorothy or Lucas are, but hey - let's add a girl we know even less information about. I've seen the "mysterious little girl with powers" trope more than once before.

Quote

- the flashback Mombi had in episode 01/02 was exactly the same scene we saw today. Bad editing, bad.

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this. The flashback was even in the recap at the beginning of the episode!

Edited January 23, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[RadiantAerynSun]

Quote

This show keeps piling on new mysteries instead of solving old ones. No questions have really been answered since the Pilot. We still don't know who Dorothy or Lucas are, but hey - let's add a girl we know even less information about. I've seen the "mysterious little girl with powers" trope more than once before.

I would be disappointed in any show that gave away secrets about its major characters in the first 3-4 episodes...