CE&P Forum Sunsetted

[David T. Cole]

I am going to move the CE&P forum into The Vault shortly. That effectively means the politics forum will be shutting down though the content will still be available to read (but not reply to).

CE&P started off fine and things for the most part were pretty level-headed and considerate but over the past few weeks it has devolved into every other online political discussion.

• People bashing other posters, not talking/debating the actual issue at hand
• People reporting posts because they don't like the considerately expressed opinion
• People reporting posts because poster X is a Y supporter and how dare they
• All the conspiratorial horseshit that comes along with moderating on civility in a political forum (we are Trump supporters, we are suppressing Trump supporters) and all this in a forum that's obviously mostly left-leaning people.

Simply put we are increasingly using far too much of our limited resources to manage this off-topic area. So as I said when this started, maybe it was going to work and maybe it wasn't but we will try it. It worked until it didn't.

I know this will disappoint some CE&P regulars and I apologize for that but it was affecting our whole management system and we are a TV discussion site first. If you have an existing report or issue in the CE&P, consider it dead.

[fishcakes]

You didn't close the replies, so I assume it's okay to post a thank you note. Thank you for giving us this space, even thought it turned out to be a giant headache to moderate. And to the other posters, I will miss talking with all of you. It's been a terrible couple of months for our country but this forum reminded me that there are places on the web where smart, sensible, funny people abound, which made it easier.

[BBDi]

Yes. Thank you.  I have drawn a lot of comfort from people here. Saved the last vestiges of my sanity. Bye everyone! 

[David T. Cole]

Thank you and I really wanted it to work within our confines but I think it was not meant to be. I am glad it provided some good along the way.

[Ohwell]

I'm glad it's dead.

Thanks, mods.  

[Bastet]

This forum has been quite valuable to me, as a repository of information and a place for intelligent, insightful, and witty discussion, and I will truly miss it.  But, thinking about all the reports and other complaints you must get, I can't imagine trying to moderate it for a day, let alone the months it has lasted.  So thank you for giving it (us) a chance, and I'm sorry it ultimately didn't work out.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Bastet

[Pixel]

Thanks for letting us have it while we could! It was great therapy, and pretty informative as well. And I got to know some posters I'd never seen before!

[possibilities]

Seriously, this was an island of intelligence in a sea I was drowning in. I'm sorry it was a nightmare for the hosts!! But grateful it lasted while it did.

[MulletorHater]

Is there anyway we can get you to change your mind?  Just kidding.

In all seriousness, thank you so much for giving us a forum in which to commiserate, vent and discuss politics.  After the election, this was the first place I came.  I've been privileged to post with some really great people. 

Thanks again!

ETA:. Smiles to you, too, Stewedsquash!  I think I remember you from TWOP.

Edited January 7, 2017 by MulletorHater

[NewDigs]

Wow.

Thanks for all efforts. Everyone.

(ouch)

[Wordly Wise]

Yes, thank you to everyone for providing a thoughtful and civil forum. It was much appreciated and all too rare these days.

[Duke Silver]

Your house, your rules.  :shrug:

Thanks for giving us a place to vent for the time it lasted.

[DeLurker]

Ditto to all of the above - truly an unexpected bonus at no extra cost!

[stillshimpy]

You know, for what it is worth, I think that's the right call and I can completely understand why you all made it.  It's not worth making the mods lives tougher, it's just not.  You all are a volunteer squad and we all know it. 

Thank you though, it really did help while it was here but I support the decision to close it.  

It's all going to be all right somehow, guys.  We may not know how yet but it will be.   I have a lot of respect for a lot of you and the mods and David have my thanks for trying for as long as you did.   Good call,  overall.  Life is short, let's talk TV and have fun again.  

Big hugs to you all.  Remember, I run an offbeat rat re-homing service if anyone needs it :-)  

Seriously.  Big hugs. 

[ruby24]

I'm so sad about this. I loved this place. :(

[random chance]

Thank you for having it as long as you did, I don't know how I would have gotten through the last few months without it.

[onthebrink03]

Thanks to David and all the dedicated mods here at PTV for hosting this forum.  And thank you to all the wonderfully snarky and intelligent posters here.  I learned a lot from you and I appreciated the articles, tweets, comments brought over here from here and there around the net.  It was pretty much one stop shopping for all the election news (and beyond) and I, for one, have appreciated having this forum and all of you to share thoughts and ideas, hopes and fears with.

If there is any move towards starting up somewhere else, please don't leave me behind.  My education is far from complete and I'll miss the daily chuckles so many of you have given me.  

Keep the faith and never lose that ability to laugh even when everything seems so dark and hopeless.  You guys are simply the best!

[millennium]

9 hours ago, onthebrink03 said:

 

If there is any move towards starting up somewhere else, please don't leave me behind.  My education is far from complete and I'll miss the daily chuckles so many of you have given me.  

 

It is doubtful another forum exists with such an educated, informed and respectful group of posters.  The only trouble I ever saw here was caused by people who came looking for it, and failing to find it, resorted to reporting.   

Choosing to exercise the nuclear option is regrettable. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by millennium

[debbie311]

Sorry to see this go.  Thank you for providing it. It has helped me so much over the last couple of months.  And I have been consistently impressed with with knowledge and intelligence of the posters here.  If there is a resurrection anywhere, I would like to be a part of it.

[BookWoman56]

I'm also very appreciative of the willingness to experiment with a political forum. This has been a wonderful place to engage in thoughtful discussions on political events, vent, and see snarky comments about politics/politicians. It's also been an educational experience, hearing various points of view and being pointed to websites/commentators with substantive content. I'll very much miss the opportunity to discuss politics here, but fully understand that it's too high maintenance for the mods.

[FilmTVGeek80]

Wow, this really sucks! Honestly, I've been to other political forums and I really didn't notice THAT much of a problem here, even the last few weeks. 

Thanks to some really great posters here that provided a lot of respectful, intelligent information and some good debate from time to time.  Also, some amazing snark and LOL posts which will be sorely missed. It's been a nice oasis of sanity given the sea of suck this election caused. If anyone starts anything up, would love to know about it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by FilmTVGeek80

[ebk57]

Thank you David, and all of the hardworking mods, for this special place.  I've taken great solace, and learned so much from everyone here.  I'm sorry we won't be able to at least be here for the coming event (the march and all...) because I was hoping to connect with folk coming into town.  If there's anything happening, or another place we can all chat, I hope to be a part of it.

Thanks to everyone.  It's been incredibly helpful.  And friendly.  And comforting.  

[Shannon L.]

I'm sorry to see it go, but I understand.  Thank you for the effort you put into maintaining it and to the insightful posters that helped me stay informed...and sane.

[BBDi]

Sad!

[ChristmasJones]

This was a great forum, and I loved having it here in the time since the election. I'm sad it has to go, but it sounds like it was becoming too much work to maintain.

[bittersweet4149]

Thank you for having the forum. This has been a great place to connect and become more politically aware, and it will be missed.

[shok]

Aww, I'm so sad to hear this news. It was one of the few places on the web that had good intelligent discussion and didn't devolve into horrible name calling and insults. Hopefully we can all find a pace to reunite and keep on talking?

[joelene]

Thanks, and too bad! I've only lurked but for a Swede this forum has been very helpful and informative about what the fuck is going on over in "The Land of the Free." If there's another discussion group happening elsewhere I'll be sure to lurk that one too!

[millennium]

Forums may rise and fall, but the sky will still be blue tomorrow.

[navelgazer]

I'm so sad about this,  There were some incredible people here posting content smart enough, professional enough, good enough IMHO to be on paid-for-content sites like HuffPost or salon.com.  Emotionally it really helped to be able to hang with folks who could make a sound, spirited, civil argument.  This place was a gem, something only appreciated once it is gone.  

Peace.  

Edited January 7, 2017 by navelgazer

[sleekandchic]

This is very sad to learn,  but completely understandable.  Thank you, Dave, and all the mods who watched over the CE&P forum and its busy threads  You guys did a masterful job on our behalf.

Dave, when you move the forum to The Vault, please make sure it's climate-controlled and comfy cozy in there.  I think many of us will be visiting often for re-reads and courage. 

[Pollock]

Caramba, I'm gutted! I really can't watch or read everything about US politics (I have enough to do within my own country) so this forum was where I was seeking infos and critiques about said infos. I can't with comments on the NYT or WaPo because well... trolls! so it was a reliable way to take the pulse of your country in some ways and cutting through the noise.

I really don't get either why this has to go, I didn't read anything really that bad but what do I know... Thanks for the time it lasted. I'm sad because if it was a good way to vent and commiserate after the election, it would have been a real help to keep track of all that will happen now that this presidency is getting real. I understand why this has to go if it's so much of a burden but...

Could there be another solution? Like some posters who post here and who'd really want to get that part of PTV going and active could be a mods here? New mods I mean, dedicated to it? I would volunteer with great pleasure to alleviate the charge but I'm a different time zone meaning that if the shit hit the fan one day, I might very well be already asleep, also my level in english grammar causes I sometimes misinterpret posts (and bleeding eyes I suppose!) so yeah... could be a problem! I don't know... I have a hard time accepting that oasis will be gone, must be stages of grief talking : deny and bargain!


(I feel like the asshole who was given an inch and ungratefully asks for the arm with it! Thank you but... that's not enough Santa, gimme more!)

[Guest]

12 hours ago, David T. Cole said:

All the conspiratorial horseshit that comes along with moderating on civility in a political forum (we are Trump supporters, we are suppressing Trump supporters) and all this in a forum that's obviously mostly left-leaning people.

*SIGH*.  

If it's any help, I will volunteer to moderate this forum (I have past experience in mod'ing -- and it was in a similarly nuts AOL forum back in the day!) nearly all day long. If not, just wanted to say I'm grateful that you provided these forums in the first place. 

[NinjaPenguins]

This election was devastating to many people, and the aftermath is proving to be even worse. This topic was an oasis for a lot of people to enjoy debate, commiserate, and hash out the news of the day. The posters here are intelligent, witty, and kind, a welcome relief for those of us living in hardcore conservative towns. The next four years are going to be a struggle, especially without this little corner of the 'net. 

[walnutqueen]

See, this is why we can't have nice things ...   ;-D

[Pixel]

Guys, we don't know that it was just one person that caused the problem. The mods may have been getting complaints and reports we don't know about. I'm super bummed about this too, but even I was poked hard enough and provoked to get a warning at one point, and I'm never in trouble here! I also got a threatening PM from another poster here. 

I would prefer the threads stay open, I'm just saying there's a lot that might be happening that's difficult to manage that we would never know about. I am grateful for the opportunity. This has been an island of sanity in a world that I feel has turned upside down. This has been literally the ONLY place on the Internet that I've seen manage to have a lengthy civil political discussion, and that's pretty fucking amazing. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Pixel

[random chance]

For anyone who wants to talk about continuing the political discussion, have a look at my profile's website. (If that's ok to mention here. I hope it is, it's too tedious trying to PM everyone!)

[fishcakes]

2 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Guys, we don't know that it was just one person that caused the problem. The mods may have been getting complaints and reports we don't know about. I'm super bummed about this too, but even I was poked hard enough and provoked to get a warning at one point, and I'm never in trouble here!

Yes, it wasn't just that one recent new poster who caused this. He was probably the straw that broke the camel's back, but he wasn't the only person trying to and succeeding in causing trouble.

[Pixel]

6 minutes ago, random chance said:

For anyone who wants to talk about continuing the political discussion, have a look at my profile's website. (If that's ok to mention here. I hope it is, it's too tedious trying to PM everyone!)

Thanks for posting the reminder!

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

Please note: this isn’t up for negotiation, or a complaint centre. We politely ask that you accept and respect the decision that has been made. We'd rather not have to lock this topic.

Thank you.

[callmebetty]

Thank you to David and mods for having this forum.  I can't imagine what you had to endure that we will never know about, because truly besides some well publicized incidents this always seemed such an absolute beacon of hope. I have gotten such an education and for that I am truly grateful to all of the wonderful posters here. I have laughed and cried, been angry and hopeful. I'm sorry that it won't be such a well concentrated area we can meet, but now that I know the names I will gladly wave when I see you on other threads.

I know I will now I have to do more work in my part finding tweets, links and articles. But at least I know where to start looking. 

It has been an honor and privilege to have spent the last few months with you all. 

Don't be sad that it's over, smile because it happened.

Edited January 7, 2017 by callmebetty

[potatoradio]

SAD!

Oh, seriously didn't want to see this heartbreak come to pass. 

It has meant the world to me to find out that I'm not alone in my devastation and confusion and to read so many hilarious and spot-on commentaries. This was seriously a mental lifesaver for me and I will miss these threads so much.

I haven't ever put time and dedication into my own forums, so I can only imagine how much work goes into keeping these discussions well-groomed. Thank you so much for fronting these threads, mods. They were far and away superior to any comments sections on MSM or other political boards. Much more open and thoughtful and real than I have found anywhere else on the interwebs. And I know that doesn't come without a megaton of effort on your part, so thank you for giving us time and space on your boards. Sorry the trolls and ids and dark side of human psyches overwhelmed this space. Ya did good and I am grateful. 

Hope to see a lot of you on the specific show boards, where we can keep up our media critiques. And I'll be checking out any leads for a meet-up/political reunion for us. I'll be thinking of a lot you as I work on my own political activism because ya'll kinda helped kick start it. If 2018 or 2020 gives us any hope, I'll be cracking the bottle of champagne and toasting all of you.

Sky still isn't fucking green. Resist. 

[Kromm]

I kinda knew it wouldn't last, and was shocked it lasted as long as it did.

My one hope is that in exchange for this area closing, that there will be a little more forbearance instead for political leaning talk in the show forums. Not an unreasonable amount, or overtly off-topic stuff, but so much of what we see on TV leans political these days. One can't really comment on John Oliver, Seth Meyers, Sam Bee, a show like @midnight, or even Stephen Colbert's Late Show (slightly watered down for network, but it's still Colbert), without some intersection, some mention of our incoming President and our beliefs about him, I'd say. And even more mainstream TV is going to start picking sides (in terms of their scriptwriting agendas, jokes they tell, taking on or dodging social justice type plotlines, etc.). Or I'd think there could be talk about new shows coming up and wonder if action shows where the solution is always to blow shit up are going to come back into vogue at the networks again (and wonder if that has to do with who's President). Heck, I'm not even sure I can watch Match Game and totally stay away from subjects like "why Donald Trump hates Alec Baldwin".  And I'm thinking Putin and hacking jokes are going to be woven into everything soon. So I hope there's some "you can mention but not debate" middleground possible.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Kromm

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, Kromm said:

My one hope is that in exchange for this area closing, that there will be a little more forbearance instead for political leaning talk in the show forums.

It won't work.  Some people will go off on a tangent, mods will intervene (as they should).  I say stay as far away from political discussions as possible, even as humor.  I want show talk to remain just what it is right now--show talk.  JMHO  

[parisprincess]

I cried on November 8th, and I now have tears in my eyes because I'm going to miss you guys so much! It was so comforting to find a group of like minded people to commiserate with. You have all contributed in educating me and making me laugh with your intelligence, compassion and senses of humor at a time when it is needed most.

Weve gotten each other through the past few months of watching our world spin out of control and, as of the 20th, there will be new challenges to our collective sanity. Whatever will I do without you all? I will miss everyone here, and want to be included if anyone finds a new gathering place. 

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

It won't work.  Some people will go off on a tangent, mods will intervene (as they should).  I say stay as far away from political discussions as possible, even as humor.  I want show talk to remain just what it is right now--show talk.  JMHO  

Did I say it shouldn't be show talk? (I said no "overtly off-topic stuff") But it seems to me that even before the election it was tough to impossible to talk about certain shows without politics, and post-inauguration that list will be even longer, because more shows will make themselves about politics.

I think there's a difference between trying to persuade someone else into your viewpoint (a no-no) and simply stating it (presumably in reference to something said or done on a show). Keeping off the obvious shows, like Sam Bee or John Oliver, and focusing just on mainstream entertainment for the moment, I can't be the only person who thinks shows like Madam Secretary, or Designated Survivor, built around liberal points of view, are going to noticeably adjust themselves in response to the election. Either as more conservative, to keep viewers, or more social-justice-y and cautionary tale-ish, to battle that. Parallels to Trump and The Trump Nation, are going to be up there on the screen like crazy.  Both deliberate ones, as well as unintended ones.  And do we NOT think we're going to see shows featuring demagogues, who pull the wool over people's eyes, and the show comments on that? Or conversely, lots about "fake news", "baskets of deplorables", Russian hacker plots, etc.

 

Even light entertainment isn't going to be neutral. Employing people in the news for being against Donald Trump creates it's own dialogue, both internally to the show, as well as externally to Twitter and the media. Alec Baldwin and Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example, can't so much as simply APPEAR on their own current TV shows, without the soon-to-be-sitting-President roping it into a current events story by Tweeting about them. That's not necessarily something IN a show that we are seeing, but it's certainly part of the shared experience of us all watching the shows and talking about them. Or are we going to have to parse everything and avoid talking about elephants in the room?

That's all I'm asking about. Not someone going on rants about Trump's latest appointment, or the stupid wall, or whatever (although I will bet someone cash, money that jokes about the wall will continue to litter TV, as well as inspire some episodic plotlines on some shows).   

Edited January 7, 2017 by Kromm

[Padma]

Thanks again, David.  Most of us had been pretty much venting in "Network" and "Morning Joe" and elsewhere before that got to be too OT--and then for a couple of days there was absolutely nothing, until you created this forum. What a joy that was to see!

It was a very bold experiment given the amount of political fighting (and trolling) all around the internet.  I actually loved it here because of the civility and humor and intelligence all the regular PTV-ers showed. It was a safe place to vent and share. I thank you so much for providing that space especially after many of us were in such shock from the election.  (As for your note about "People reporting posts because they don't like the considerately expressed opinion" or "People reporting posts because poster X is a Y supporter and how dare they"--I never, ever think of having to mod all that kind of thing behind the scenes. In my time here--and years at TWOP--I've made one report of someone else, so I always forget about the amount of reporting that you all have to regularly deal with.  I'm so sorry that you and other mods had to handle all that, plus "all the conspiratorial horseshit that comes along with moderating on civility in a political forum".  What a shame. :(  )

Anyway, it was a very gutsy experiment to try out a political forum (especially on a television show board), and I think anyone reading through the threads themselves would be impressed by the overall level of discourse and civility (with one or two weak moments).  It was also a tremendous help at a really bad time and I'll always be grateful to you and the people here for that.  Thanks again to you and the other moderators for being willing to give it a try and take on the extra work it entailed.  So much appreciated--Padma