S01.E06: Auditing

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Rinder's EX-wife is a Scientologist and still is (along with his children from that marriage).  She is the one who spoke out against him on television.  His current wife looks like she's much younger than him.

I could've sworn Rinder's current wife said that she was a Scientologist for 36 years, and that she got into it when she was 10.  I clearly misheard, she's not that old.

Interestingly enough, I Googled Christie Collbran (Mike's current wife) and found an article written by Mike's daughter, Taryn Rinder, about her father and his second wife.  It's chilling, but written in the same juvenile style as the letters that Leah reads at the beginning of each episode.  Are they all trained to write that way?

http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/mike-rinder-christie-collbran-saddest-part.html

EDIT: I wandered over to the "Blog" portion of the above link.  I had to leave the site, it's just plain disturbing.

Edited January 4, 2017 by laurakaye

[PrincessSteel]

She's a sitcom star on a mission! He's a former high level operative of a shady religion! Together they're Remini & Rinder, Co$ Busters! Man, you couldn't write this stuff. May they continue forever...I will go into withdrawal when this is over.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I suspect Leah is hoping this is the case. She knows she's physically safe because even someone as egomaniacal as Miscavige wouldn't try to harm her with her in the public eye like this. And she really seems to revel in the harassment they have gotten on tape. By that I don't mean she likes it, but that she knows it's a sign that she's getting to them and they are showing more and more of their true colors. Scientology has never shown themselves to act wisely when trying to deal with a threat. They can't even write a letter to A&E that doesn't make them sound like whiny liars. So she knows that whatever they are cooking up is going to backfire on them. 

Speaking of those letters, I'd have to go back and listen to each one to be sure but are they really just form letters with the "bad guy' of the day inserted into the first line? It's like they sent the same letter over and over but about different people. 

Since Leah has been considered an official "SP," no Scientologist is supposed to even acknowledge, read, or watch anything she does or says. She mentioned this in her book. So are the higher-ups adhering to their own policy?

[laurakaye]

4 minutes ago, PrincessSteel said:

She's a sitcom star on a mission! He's a former high level operative of a shady religion! Together they're Remini & Rinder, Co$ Busters! Man, you couldn't write this stuff. May they continue forever...I will go into withdrawal when this is over.

LOL, love it!  They do make a great pair.  Between both of their accents, and the way she ribs him and he just dryly takes it, they are perfect together.

When will we know if more episodes are going to air?  This cannot be only an 8-part series.  800 parts, perhaps.

[PrincessSteel]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Since Leah has been considered an official "SP," no Scientologist is supposed to even acknowledge, read, or watch anything she does or says. She mentioned this in her book. So are the higher-ups adhering to their own policy?

I would guess that they aren't... I realize that your question was rhetorical, and I am sure that the big shots in the church can rationalize watching in order to counter Leah's 'entheta'. Or some such bullshit. If they can justify a leader who physically attacks people...

[laurakaye]

9 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Since Leah has been considered an official "SP," no Scientologist is supposed to even acknowledge, read, or watch anything she does or says. She mentioned this in her book. So are the higher-ups adhering to their own policy?

My guess is that they are simply re-writing their policy.  

I'm halfway through Going Clear (the book) and it's amazing how, when confronted with something that wasn't in line with LRH's thinking or planning, he simply re-wrote the rules, added another OT Level or two, changed the rules, re-changed the rules and then threw out the rules and made new rules.

My question is, how on earth does a Scientologist know that what they are studying is going to stick?  How can they "learn" anything when at any time, someone is liable to tell them that "oh hey, there were several mistakes in that book, here's a new book - learn it.  And by the way, it costs $500."  Are they blindly brainwashed into studying whatever is placed before them?  At some point, wouldn't they wonder about all the so-called "mistakes?"

[Neurochick]

29 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

My question is, how on earth does a Scientologist know that what they are studying is going to stick?  How can they "learn" anything when at any time, someone is liable to tell them that "oh hey, there were several mistakes in that book, here's a new book - learn it.  And by the way, it costs $500."  Are they blindly brainwashed into studying whatever is placed before them?  At some point, wouldn't they wonder about all the so-called "mistakes?"

By the time they find out about the mistakes and they have to go down the bridge again, they probably have been in Scientology for years, maybe even decades.  They just don't want to admit to themselves that they have been duped and have wasted their time and money on this cult.  It's the same reason so many people stayed with the People's Temple.

It's the same reason people stay in marriages and jobs and all types of relationships even though they can clearly see they're abusive.  Some people might feel they're too old to start over and "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't." 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Neurochick

[DrSparkles]

50 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I could've sworn Rinder's current wife said that she was a Scientologist for 36 years, and that she got into it when she was 10.  I clearly misheard, she's not that old.

Interestingly enough, I Googled Christie Collbran (Mike's current wife) and found an article written by Mike's daughter, Taryn Rinder, about her father and his second wife.  It's chilling, but written in the same juvenile style as the letters that Leah reads at the beginning of each episode.  Are they all trained to write that way?

http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/mike-rinder-christie-collbran-saddest-part.html

EDIT: I wandered over to the "Blog" portion of the above link.  Holy crap.  I had to leave the site, it's just plain disturbing.

Phew, holy shit! That article was something & then I clicked on the blog. GOD DANG, I wonder when she 'wrote' all of these? In the past few months?

Shaking my damn head.

[juliet73]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

I could've sworn Rinder's current wife said that she was a Scientologist for 36 years, and that she got into it when she was 10.  I clearly misheard, she's not that old.

Interestingly enough, I Googled Christie Collbran (Mike's current wife) and found an article written by Mike's daughter, Taryn Rinder, about her father and his second wife.  It's chilling, but written in the same juvenile style as the letters that Leah reads at the beginning of each episode.  Are they all trained to write that way?

http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/mike-rinder-christie-collbran-saddest-part.html

EDIT: I wandered over to the "Blog" portion of the above link.  Holy crap.  I had to leave the site, it's just plain disturbing.

I read the article and I believe these events happened.  However, I doubt Mike's reactions she writes about to each incident are true.  One thing that struck me as odd (odder) was "My younger brother had melanoma, given a year to live. He is now recovered and doing great due to Scientology and the help of his many friends in the church." How did Scientology cure his cancer?  Via E-meter? Via buying more BS Co$ literature? Since they are not allowed to take drugs/medications, I am beyond curious how he recovered when he was knocking on death's door. 

[Jamoche]

2 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I would really love to hear more about the saving the planet part. I realize the e-meter stuff is insane, but obviously they believe it. So they believe that all of this constant auditing helps them remove these bad things from their mind so they can achieve a higher level of being. I know I'm saying it wrong but all the Scientology-speak confuses me. Is that how they believe they are saving the planet? By making themselves these "all-healing/all-good" type people and recruiting others to do that same? Or are they under the impression that some other part of Scientology is saving the planet in a more traditional way (feeding hungry, building homes, etc). I know they have Narcanon which they believe is helping people get off drugs. Whether it is or not is another story, but they believe it and I'm sure they see that as a major 'planet helper'. What I'm trying to understand is how they view saving the planet. 

They're "clearing the planet". There's nothing in the CoS about the traditional ways to help people and I doubt it would occur to anyone deep inside it to even think about that. Yes, the recruiting is part of that - if you recruit one person, and they recruit one person, and so on, and so on... then eventually the whole planet will be clear. After that? Well, everything will be awesome in some handwavy way.

[spiderpig]

I'm still trying to get my head around the sheer volume of insanity in this ep.

That cheesy 1993 Triumph of the Will rally over the victory over tax-exemption ("The War is OVER!") and DM's greedy little rat eyes made my blood run cold. Yup - I'm sure those unpaid taxes are going to feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. :eyeroll:

CO$ praising teenager Collin for his auditing achievements, only to change the rules and tear him down was sickening.  Just sickening.  And they couldn't just let it go.  Once Collin left, they had to do whatever they could to cut him off from his mother and twin brother out of malevolence and spite.

Then there's the creepy stalking of the production crew.  They sure love to stalk, don't they?

Everything this Cult does is nasty, evil, confrontational and vindictive.  The tone is set at the beginning of the eps where they show the CO$ text accusations about Leah, followed by Leah reading on-cam the CO$ smear of the current ep's subject.

If these nutjobs (crooks) are saving the world, please book me on the next flight to Rigel VII.

(Have to add...put me on Team Dog!!!)

Edited January 4, 2017 by spiderpig

[3girlsforus]

I'm scared for the dog. The COS has been known to kill animals. 

[Al Lowe]

  2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I could've sworn Rinder's current wife said that she was a Scientologist for 36 years, and that she got into it when she was 10.  I clearly misheard, she's not that old.

Interestingly enough, I Googled Christie Collbran (Mike's current wife) and found an article written by Mike's daughter, Taryn Rinder, about her father and his second wife.  It's chilling, but written in the same juvenile style as the letters that Leah reads at the beginning of each episode.  Are they all trained to write that way?

http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/articles/mike-rinder-christie-collbran-saddest-part.html

EDIT: I wandered over to the "Blog" portion of the above link.  Holy crap.  I had to leave the site, it's just plain disturbing.

I read the article and I believe these events happened.  However, I doubt Mike's reactions she writes about to each incident are true.  One thing that struck me as odd (odder) was "My younger brother had melanoma, given a year to live. He is now recovered and doing great due to Scientology and the help of his many friends in the church." How did Scientology cure his cancer?  Via E-meter? Via buying more BS Co$ literature? Since they are not allowed to take drugs/medications, I am beyond curious how he recovered when he was knocking on death's door. 

Oh, my goodness. The repeated use of the LRH-coined term "enturbulate" makes me so sad. If you have lived your entire life with no education except by these people, I don't know how you'd ever escape this nonsense.

[WInterfalls]

This episode was the most emotional yet.  I too thought they were going to say Colin committed suicide and was relieved that wasn't the case.  I have twin nieces and they are so close I cannot imagine what would have to happen to tear them apart. Not to mention how traumatic it would be to them if one of them was gone.  

I am really glad that they ended the episode with the dog bit.  I really needed that moment of levity.  Yes Rinder's laugh was the best.  

I can't believe that creepy lady was all I need to talk to a producer then got his name and walked off without even telling him her name.  Who even does that? 

[iMonrey]

Quote

My guess is that the letters are filled out similarly to Mad Libs...insert name, crime, adjectives, bigger crime, more adjectives, and done.

The hilarious thing about all these disclaimers the church issues about everyone who's been interviewed on this show is that - apparently - every one of them was "terminated" from church membership because they were violent, abusive, wife-beating sexual predators. That doesn't speak well of their congregation as a whole, does it? Look at all the violent, abusive criminals that came out of that place!

Quote

First, politics aside, I honestly think the fastest way to get thia CULT shut down is for people to tweet President-Elect Trump varations of "revoke $cientology #taxexemptstatus for $ 2 build #roadsandbridges".  

I don't want to get into politics either but, unfortunately, the incoming administration and Republican-controlled congress is more interested in dismantling the one institution that could go after the CO$ - the IRS - than going after the church. 

[cpansy]

This episode was the most emotional yet.  I too thought they were going to say Colin committed suicide and was relieved that wasn't the case.  I have twin nieces and they are so close I cannot imagine what would have to happen to tear them apart. Not to mention how traumatic it would be to them if one of them was gone.  

I am really glad that they ended the episode with the dog bit.  I really needed that moment of levity.  Yes Rinder's laugh was the best.  

I can't believe that creepy lady was all I need to talk to a producer then got his name and walked off without even telling him her name.  Who even does that? 

I thought exactly the same thing. I was waiting to hear that Collin had committed suicide, and was so relieved when that didn't happen. Then they administer the coup de grace by letting us know he had died in an auto accident without ever speaking to his mother and brother again. At least the father was there to connect everyone. I always knew this "church" was a horrendous money grab, but I cannot imagine having to disconnect from everyone I love for the sake of a religious practice.

[kassa]

On 1/3/2017 at 1:47 PM, Tiger said:

I really need Leah or someone to explain exactly what $cientologi$t$ are doing when they're working in Clearwater or Gold Base.  Are they reading LRH's books?  What are they doing 13 hrs a day/7 days a week?!?

Jenna Miscavige's book is pretty detailed -- they're MEMORIZING those books.  Not sure if everybody has to do it, just Sea Org people, or whether she had to do it as some kind of punishment, but she couldn't progress to the next step without being able to regurgitate the information verbatim, and it was all pseudo scientific gobbledygook, so not exactly easy to do.  If you so much as stuttered when saying a word, that was a clear indication that you had some kind of blockage because you were obviously hiding something awful about yourself, so back you went until you fixed yourself enough to be flawless.

Remember, as pointed out in this episode, it's built into the training that any difficulty you have is because there's something inherently wrong that you're consciously or unconsciously hiding, and you're punished until you figure it out (or figure out how to make something up/lie convincingly enough to be let off the hook).  It's psychological torture to be forced to sit in the chair holding those things and being interrogated until you come up with something, anything, to make it stop.

[CatMomma]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

By the time they find out about the mistakes and they have to go down the bridge again, they probably have been in Scientology for years, maybe even decades.  They just don't want to admit to themselves that they have been duped and have wasted their time and money on this cult.  It's the same reason so many people stayed with the People's Temple.

It's the same reason people stay in marriages and jobs and all types of relationships even though they can clearly see they're abusive.  Some people might feel they're too old to start over and "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't." 

And the same reason most of us live in a bubble. Even now, we don't watch news channels that don't match up to our beliefs.  So much on the internet is false, so why wouldn't they believe that the negative things said about Scientology are suspect?  

I really admire anyone who leaves. Takes an incredible amount of strength.

[Ina123]

I'm surprised it has taken this long for the craziness of CO$ to get this publicity. I guess it's the internet age. I have always been somewhat attune to wild and crazy news so I pick up on unusual stories. I first got interested in all this crazy shit back in the 70s when I read an article about how the CO$ put a rattlesnake in someone's mailbox. I wish I could remember who it was. It would not surprise me if it was Paulette Cooper, but I can't remember when her harassment began.

Tony Ortega's site and plenty of others have been out there for a long time. I'm just surprised, but terribly pleased, that it's being exposed on a greater level. Go Leah and Mike!

I belly laughed at the dog story, too. Even without the Scientology tie-in, who installs a dog door for a neighbor's dog?

"I can't disconnect from the dog. He won't understand." WHAT? LOL

[WInterfalls]

I wonder if someone will write Knowledge report on that neighbor for refusing to disconnect from the dog.  Clearly that dog is a potential trouble source.  If I were them I would start attaching anti-Scientology pamphlets to the dog so the neighbor would have to see them. 

[Enigma X]

2 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

I wonder if someone will write Knowledge report on that neighbor for refusing to disconnect from the dog.  Clearly that dog is a potential trouble source.  If I were them I would start attaching anti-Scientology pamphlets to the dog so the neighbor would have to see them. 

I was thinking the same thing. Hahaha.

[WInterfalls]

So apparently overnight Aaron Levin-Smith had a Scientology hit site put up about him.  Here is an article about it and his rebuttal of claims made against him. He does come off as very likable.    

http://tonyortega.org/2017/01/04/aaron-smith-levin-appears-on-leah-remini-hours-later-gets-own-scientology-attack-site/

[bethster2000]

21 hours ago, lordonia said:

he sure looked bored during most of the interview with Aaron.

I think he removes himself from things in a way because he carries around so much guilt.  Rinder was really UP THERE as a $cientologist.  He has to feel terrible for the stuff he did during his time there.

He did burst into tears when the lovely blonde lady with the glasses was telling her story about her family and disconnection.  I also appreciate his insights in his individual interview bits.

[iMonrey]

Loony as that neighbor lady obviously is, I sort of understand her loopy thought process about the dog as an animal lover myself. You can explain to a person, even a small child, why you are not interacting with them anymore. You cannot explain it to a dog. Somewhere in there, among her mental somersaults, she's putting her love for the animal above her devotion to the CO$. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by iMonrey

[Slovenly Muse]

1 hour ago, cpansy said:

I thought exactly the same thing. I was waiting to hear that Collin had committed suicide, and was so relieved when that didn't happen. Then they administer the coup de grace by letting us know he had died in an auto accident without ever speaking to his mother and brother again.

This was so heartbreaking. I hadn't expected suicide (being free from Co$ sounds more like a reason to START living than stop), but I had half expected to learn that the accident was caused by the Co$ employing their follow/stalk/intimidate procedures on this kid who was writing articles about them. So I was crazy relieved that the guilt of turning his brother in actually CAUSING his death isn't one more thing for Aaron to have to live with. I can't imagine finding out that the brother who "broke up with you first" had been missing you so desperately for so long, and knowing you'll never have the chance to make things better. What a nightmare.

35 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

I belly laughed at the dog story, too. Even without the Scientology tie-in, who installs a dog door for a neighbor's dog?

"I can't disconnect from the dog. He won't understand." WHAT? LOL

This is so nutso to me. I mean, theoretically, the reason you disconnect from someone is because they are a SUPPRESSIVE PERSON who is evil and deliberately, actively working against the good that Scientology is doing in the world... that is how families understand and justify disconnection. It is DANGEROUS to continue to be in contact with someone so demonic as to be against Scientology! So... the fact that this neighbour believes that she would be EXPECTED to disconnect from the dog in the first place means it is assumed that the PETS of an SP could also be evil and destructive to the planetary good, which is so bonkers I can't even.

When you have to work that hard to find excuses to not hold pets spiritually responsible for the practices of their owners, your wackadoodle religion might just be a cult!

[zxy556575]

Adam is a much kinder person than me because I damned well would have prevented my dog from ever visiting Sue again. She doesn't deserve any sweet canine affection.

[Absurda]

Quote

When you have to work that hard to find excuses to not hold pets spiritually responsible for the practices of their owners, your wackadoodle religion might just be a cult!

I don't think it was so much about the dog being responsible for his/her owner's actions as the dog being a tenuous connection to the SP.  Adam was told to disconnect from his father (who was not a Scientologist and not declared an SP) because the father was connected to the SP.  Sort of a second degree connection.  So, maybe the neighbor was saying "I still want to hang out with your dog so please don't try to use him/her contact me or get your SP germs all over me"  or something like that.  Still really stupid.

The brilliance of Leah's documentary is that she is having people speak of their own experiences and show their own pain, regrets and guilt.  She's put a face on the church's victims and shown the human cost.  They have also covered the financial side of things but if they left it at that no one would pay much attention.  Plus, reading out the church's response letters helps to show that the church really can't rebut what these people are saying about their own, direct, experiences except to defame them and call them all liars.

I was pretty religious in my younger years and remember how very painful it was when I realized my church was not what I wanted, needed, thought it was and left.  I didn't even have the added heartbreak of losing family, friends, community, job, etc.  It's just inconceivable.  When hearing these stories I can't help but wonder, if that had been me or a member of my family what would I/they do in that situation.  I know what I would do now at this point in my life (tell the church to kiss my ass) but I have to say, during my younger more devout years I really could have gone either way.  So, I get on a gut level how/why people get so involved in this that they'd disconnect from family and friends though I still couldn't explain it on any rational or intellectual level.  It's important that Leah is showing the impact to folks like Adam and his family.

Lastly, every time I hear about auditing it just sounds like really intense interrogation and I can't help but wonder how it compares to military or law enforcement interrogation techniques.

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, WInterfalls said:

So apparently overnight Aaron Levin-Smith had a Scientology hit site put up about him.  Here is an article about it and his rebuttal of claims made against him. He does come off as very likable.    

http://tonyortega.org/2017/01/04/aaron-smith-levin-appears-on-leah-remini-hours-later-gets-own-scientology-attack-site/

They (probably smartly) never give a link to the Scientology smear site.  However, I totally wanna read that craziness, so if anyone knows what it is.....share my friends!

[Slovenly Muse]

6 minutes ago, Absurda said:

I don't think it was so much about the dog being responsible for his/her owner's actions as the dog being a tenuous connection to the SP.  Adam was told to disconnect from his father (who was not a Scientologist and not declared an SP) because the father was connected to the SP.  Sort of a second degree connection.  So, maybe the neighbor was saying "I still want to hang out with your dog so please don't try to use him/her contact me or get your SP germs all over me"  or something like that.  Still really stupid.

I agree. I don't LITERALLY think the Co$ considers the dog an SP... but the fact that her thinking really WAS that the reason she couldn't disconnect from the dog is that the dog wouldn't understand, and its feelings would be hurt (rather than because it's not necessary), really speaks to that kind of mentality. Obviously, the dog is not a threat to Scientology. The young children are not a threat right now, and disconnecting from them isn't going to help them in any way, and will similarly hurt them. But the disconnection policy means the ENTIRE family, children, dog, and all, is seen as a threat, as something to be feared and shunned. A force of evil in the world. Even in other religions that practice excommunication or shunning, the infant children of sinners can still be "saved." Writing off the children, but doing mental gymnastics to justify seeing the dog when you KNOW you are expected not to, demonstrates just how extreme the paranoia and fear around SP's really is. I could understand parents being afraid to let their children have a relationship with Scientologists... they might recruit the kids into their destructive cult! But what do Scientologists have to fear from young children AND DOGS that makes this extreme policy necessary? Ridiculous!

[SunnyBeBe]

Okay.  Last night I had to change the channel for a few minutes.  The story about the twins who were being so abused by COS! OMG.  It broke my heart.  I was raised fundie, so I sort of get it. Not too much surprises me, but, that did get to me.  

I have a couple of questions and if anyone knows, please chime in.  The twins were in training for auditing when they were ages 13-15, correct? Who were they going to be auditing? Adults, teens?  It sounds odd to me.  Not that I don't believe the man.  I have found the former COS members words quite believable so far.  I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it.

Also, when a couple of people told stories of their plans to escape or just voice criticism of the COS,  they would confide in family members.  They know what that means. So why would you vent critical stuff to a family member or friend, when you know they are going to turn you in?  Maybe, they really secretly want to be turned in?

I do think that some of the ideas of the COS sound exciting and even intriguing.  It seems that the bizarre methods to convert, retain, and intimidate have been their downfall.  With all of these revelations about their leader and the higher ups ruling in such a devastating way, I wonder if we will see a REFORMED CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY!  You know, the good part, without the pressure and lies. Could they form a coup and SPLIT?

[AZChristian]

I've read a couple of books on Scientology.  (Taking a break right now to give my brain a chance to go back to normal.)  It's not uncommon for young teenagers to audit people - including adults.  

[Omega Mu]

39 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

They (probably smartly) never give a link to the Scientology smear site.  However, I totally wanna read that craziness, so if anyone knows what it is.....share my friends!

I dont have a direct link, but if you go to www.whoismichaelrinder.com and scroll to the bottom of the page there are links to several of the hate sites have been generated due to this show. Aaron's hate site is one of them.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Omega Mu

[iMonrey]

Quote

This is so nutso to me. I mean, theoretically, the reason you disconnect from someone is because they are a SUPPRESSIVE PERSON who is evil and deliberately, actively working against the good that Scientology is doing in the world... that is how families understand and justify disconnection. It is DANGEROUS to continue to be in contact with someone so demonic as to be against Scientology! So... the fact that this neighbour believes that she would be EXPECTED to disconnect from the dog in the first place means it is assumed that the PETS of an SP could also be evil and destructive to the planetary good, which is so bonkers I can't even.

That's just it though - she didn't think she was supposed to disconnect from the dog or that the dog was an SP. She was "rational" enough to realize a dog cannot be an SP which is why she didn't want to disconnect from the dog. As brain-washed as this woman was, and as funny as it was to hear about, she was still sane enough to realize a dog cannot be held responsible for a person's actions and you can't explain to it why you are no longer associating with it. Within the framework of her belief there is a "logic" behind it.

I want to know how they are getting their hands on all of these CO$ promotional videos they show. Surely the church didn't give them to them or make them public. Did Mike Rinder make copies and steal them?

[HunterHunted]

43 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Also, when a couple of people told stories of their plans to escape or just voice criticism of the COS,  they would confide in family members.  They know what that means. So why would you vent critical stuff to a family member or friend, when you know they are going to turn you in?  Maybe, they really secretly want to be turned in?

I do think that some of the ideas of the COS sound exciting and even intriguing.  It seems that the bizarre methods to convert, retain, and intimidate have been their downfall.  With all of these revelations about their leader and the higher ups ruling in such a devastating way, I wonder if we will see a REFORMED CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY!  You know, the good part, without the pressure and lies. Could they form a coup and SPLIT?

A reformed church of Scientology is literally not feasible. It is considered a grave sin in the Co$ to read and look at materials that are critical of Scientology. It's a sin and considered unloving to not inform the Co$ when your friends and loved ones are having doubts about the Co$.  Anytime anyone is the least bit critical of it, the Co$ declares them an SP and has everyone disconnect. If they'd stop the disconnection, then someone might be able to reform it. As it is, you might be disconnected, critical of Co$, and still believe in some its tenets, but never speak to a practicing Scientologist for the rest of your life. Their super strange ban on having children in the Sea Org isn't helping them out either. Their financial incentives are completely misaligned. No one talks about joyous moments they had being a Scientologist. People stay in for their family not for the beliefs not for the personal improvements it helped them achieve. I can't remember which one of the former members said there is nothing there to be saved nothing there to reform. Anything the least bit benignly interesting or helpful can be found in less abusive and more legitimate religions, practices, and therapy.

[shelley1234]

48 minutes ago, Omega Mu said:

I dont have a direct link, but if you go to www.whoismichaelrinder.com and scroll to the bottom of the page there are links to several of the hate sites have been generated due to this show. Aaron's hate site is one of them.

Thanks.....and then I spent the next hour down the rabbit hole reading their crazy talk!!!!  

[Sup wit dat]

20 hours ago, Ruprecht said:

How heartbreaking - there is no concept of "unconditional love" in CO$. Why does this organization still exist? Forced abortions, broken families, abusive child labor. I'm flummoxed. 

How twisted that a person would cut off all communication to a family except the dog because of the CO$. That's sick. Bravo to Leah, Mike, A&E, and all these really brave ex-members for showing the reality of this organization.

I agree so much.  They are all very brave and it takes a helluva lot of courage to stand up to unpredictable consquences.  Co$ has money and that carries a lot of influence in this country so they really never know what Miscavige and his minions will pull next.  

Leah and crew are like the minnows trying to swallow the whale.  They are basically giving up their lives to fight for those still trapped.  More power to them.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Sup wit dat

[Domestic Assassin]

Quote

I do think that some of the ideas of the COS sound exciting and even intriguing.  It seems that the bizarre methods to convert, retain, and intimidate have been their downfall.  With all of these revelations about their leader and the higher ups ruling in such a devastating way, I wonder if we will see a REFORMED CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY!  You know, the good part, without the pressure and lies. Could they form a coup and SPLIT?

Quote

A reformed church of Scientology is literally not feasible. It is considered a grave sin in the Co$ to read and look at materials that are critical of Scientology. It's a sin and considered unloving to not inform the Co$ when your friends and loved ones are having doubts about the Co$.  Anytime anyone is the least bit critical of it, the Co$ declares them an SP and has everyone disconnect. If they'd stop the disconnection, then someone might be able to reform it.

There have been some independent Scientology groups formed by people who escaped from the original CO$, but most peter out after a while.  Once they start questioning a part of it, they start to question everything and it all falls apart. 

[mjstrick]

9 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Since Leah has been considered an official "SP," no Scientologist is supposed to even acknowledge, read, or watch anything she does or says. She mentioned this in her book. So are the higher-ups adhering to their own policy?

I'm reading Beyond Belief by Jenna Miscavage's right now and she said alot of the higher-ups at Flag watch TV.  She realized it when she got to go stay with her mom who was working there.  Yeah, hypocrisy for the win!

[Shorty186]

I just finished Jenna's book last night. I hope if it gets renewed for another season they will talk to her as well.

[pinguina]

This episode was difficult to watch!  I have so many questions after viewing it.  Mostly regarding the lack of education for the children involved or have parents who are part of this crazy cult.  It just seems so odd to me that they (the adults, leaders, parents) don't want their children to learn anything.  Well, maybe I do get it ... the more the children learn or know, more likely to form their own opinions. Which, for regular people/parents, would be a good thing.  It would mean signs of logic, independent thinking, reaching own conclusions, becoming an independent adult!  But in this cult ... just no.

The story about Aaron and Collin was so sad.  I can't imagine not being a part of my siblings' lives.  We text or talk to each other at least once or twice a day.  To just stop talking to them because we disagree? Unimaginable!  We disagree on different things/subjects but when push comes to shove? Wham!!! We are there for each other.

I really thought that after his brother's death, Aaron would be more likely/open to begin talking/thinking about leaving the cult. He was estranged from his brother for what - ten years? I'm sure that he thought about him, yet didn't do anything.  When his brother died and he wanted to attend the funeral and his supervisor (?) told him why? But yet he still went.  His brother's friends told him how much Colin hated Scientology and it still didn't seem to make a difference.  It wasn't until he read an article in the paper that he began to question what he was attached to.

Although we shake our heads about why the members can't see this for the cult it is, I have to say I really admire the survivors of this horrible organization.  They literally had to throw away years of believing something after the reality of what is really happening explodes right in front of them.  That must be so hard and yet it shows their perseverance and their undying spirit to be able to start a new path, a new way to live..  That is admirable in my opinion.

[toodles]

12 hours ago, Ananayel said:

 

If the IRS took away tax-exempt status once, it can do it again. Hard to believe I have to root for the IRS now.

Right?  That pisses me off to no end.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

That's just it though - she didn't think she was supposed to disconnect from the dog or that the dog was an SP. She was "rational" enough to realize a dog cannot be an SP which is why she didn't want to disconnect from the dog. As brain-washed as this woman was, and as funny as it was to hear about, she was still sane enough to realize a dog cannot be held responsible for a person's actions and you can't explain to it why you are no longer associating with it. Within the framework of her belief there is a "logic" behind it.

I actually think this is more desperate and sad than that (although I laughed really hard on the telling of it).  Its not normal to be that attached to your neighbor's dog even if you are an animal lover.  It likely means that she has no one in her life because of Scientology and won't even get her own pet.

I would not be surprised if Scientology does two things after this:

- Requires that the in laws move away

- Makes the neighbor disconnect from the dog or worse.  I would be shocked to hear that the dog "ran away" because the neighbor was strong-armed into leaving her fence open or that Scientology "found the dog a better home "with non-SPs,etc.

6 minutes ago, pinguina said:

This episode was difficult to watch!  I have so many questions after viewing it.  Mostly regarding the lack of education for the children involved or have parents who are part of this crazy cult.  It just seems so odd to me that they (the adults, leaders, parents) don't want their children to learn anything.  Well, maybe I do get it ... the more the children learn or know, more likely to form their own opinions. Which, for regular people/parents, would be a good thing.  It would mean signs of logic, independent thinking, reaching own conclusions, becoming an independent adult!  But in this cult ... just no..

I actually thought this episode cleared that up.  The parents that are indoctrinated into the cult see becoming a Sea Org or auditor, etc as education towards a career.  They see no need for any education/career outside of Scientology.

[Kareny]

Oh, for sure, the poor neighbor is going to be audited like crazy until she disconnects from that dog now. Scientology does not joke around. 

[mjstrick]

9 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I read the article and I believe these events happened.  However, I doubt Mike's reactions she writes about to each incident are true.  One thing that struck me as odd (odder) was "My younger brother had melanoma, given a year to live. He is now recovered and doing great due to Scientology and the help of his many friends in the church." How did Scientology cure his cancer?  Via E-meter? Via buying more BS Co$ literature? Since they are not allowed to take drugs/medications, I am beyond curious how he recovered when he was knocking on death's door. 

Evidently they do it by taking a crap ton of niacin, running for 30 minutes, then spending 5 hours in a sauna.  Who knew I could have just saunaed my cancer away.  

[CofCinci]

1 hour ago, pinguina said:

This episode was difficult to watch!  I have so many questions after viewing it.  Mostly regarding the lack of education for the children involved or have parents who are part of this crazy cult.  It just seems so odd to me that they (the adults, leaders, parents) don't want their children to learn anything.  Well, maybe I do get it ... the more the children learn or know, more likely to form their own opinions. Which, for regular people/parents, would be a good thing.  It would mean signs of logic, independent thinking, reaching own conclusions, becoming an independent adult!  But in this cult ... just no.

It is the individual's responsibility to educate themselves - regardless of age. Look at Jayden and Willow Smith.  Why learn long division when you can stop time?  Why learn the basics of physics when you can jump right to quantum physics. 

As a parent, I shudder to think what my child would study if it were up to her.  Is there a college with a degree about Sabrina Carpenter?

[pinguina]

Oh my goodness, CofCinci!  I forgot all about the intellectual wonder that are Willow and Jayden! 

[Josette]

Quote

I'm surprised it has taken this long for the craziness of CO$ to get this publicity. I guess it's the internet age. I have always been somewhat attune to wild and crazy news so I pick up on unusual stories. I first got interested in all this crazy shit back in the 70s when I read an article about how the CO$ put a rattlesnake in someone's mailbox. I wish I could remember who it was.

Synanon did that.  Not sure the CO$ ever did it to anyone.

Quote

Synanon members on October 10, 1978, tried to kill Los Angeles attorney Paul Morantz by planting a rattlesnake in his mailbox. Morantz survived being bitten, and in an October 19, 1978, article, Mitchell revealed that Synanon founder Charles Dederich had been calling for an attack on Morantz, who three weeks earlier had won a $300,000 judgment against the cult.  link

I kept expecting to find out that the dog's collar was bugged or something. 

[ParadoxLost]

12 hours ago, GenL said:

No.  Didn't Jason Beghe leave first? I would say he's at the same "star power" as Leah- if not a bit higher.  If you want more, I highly recommend the documentary Going Clear (full documentary linked in the Scientology Resources thread).

ETA:  Oops- the Going Clear documentary was the only one I was unable to find online for free.  I think you can rent it for $4.99).

Jason Beghe did a number of on line interviews when he left.  He also filmed hours of footage on Scientology with 20/20 but ABC never aired it.  He has also been cited as an inspiration for Rathburn to participate in  the "Truth Rundown" article that the show keeps referring to.  Rathburn convinced Rinder to participate.  I think that Leah is the first to want to go public after a lot of the groundwork was laid.  But Beghe helped lay a lot of the groundwork.  But neither was a big enough star to get this media hype without the stuff that has happened in the intermediate time.

Edited January 5, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Pollock]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do think that some of the ideas of the COS sound exciting and even intriguing.  It seems that the bizarre methods to convert, retain, and intimidate have been their downfall.  With all of these revelations about their leader and the higher ups ruling in such a devastating way, I wonder if we will see a REFORMED CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY!  You know, the good part, without the pressure and lies. Could they form a coup and SPLIT?

 

2 hours ago, Moose Andsquirrel said:

There have been some independent Scientology groups formed by people who escaped from the original CO$, but most peter out after a while.  Once they start questioning a part of it, they start to question everything and it all falls apart. 

Not only that but it's near impossible to teach Scientology outside the main branch: all the material is copyrighted and its use restricted. They will sue your ass if you're doing that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)

[Jade Foxx]

11 hours ago, Jamoche said:

would really love to hear more about the saving the planet part. I realize the e-meter stuff is insane, but obviously they believe it. So they believe that all of this constant auditing helps them remove these bad things from their mind so they can achieve a higher level of bein

Just wondering what would make a person lean more into Scientology,  vs.  let's say, Buddhism, or even the Hippie movement? Not the indoctrinated kids, I'm talking about the "free-willed" adults.