S07.E13: Breaking The Wall / S07.E14: Deja Vu

[Tatum]

19 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Seriously so weird. It looked like a rehearsal for a trial scene in a play by bad improv actors.

I was upset when I first found out Jenelle was acquitted, but after seeing the trial it makes perfect sense. Nathan's "testimony" was literally him just saying his gf was assaulted but offering no details, before going on a self centered diatribe about custody, seeing his son, and David calling him a female on Twitter. Granted, Jenelle's testimony included her saying she was a good person and mom, but the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. I don't see how all that was even allowed. 

Yeah, I haven't watched the episode, but it sounds like the gf and Nathan did not bother to get their stories straight while both trying to omit any mention of their part in escalating the drama, which led to an extremely inconsistent and unlikely account of what happened. If they had been more forthcoming in their testimony about their own immature behavior, they might have had more luck in getting the person who actually broke the law convicted.

[Miasmomma]

If losing your keys is a sign that you are a dysfunctional loser then I must have a big "L" on my forehead.  I have a busy career, serve on multiple boards and have a great kid who participates in lots of activities and I lose my keys and my phone in my house from time to time.  And yes it's not that hard to find a place to put my keys...but my hands are full or I'm on the phone and life happens.  Then again perhaps the issue isn't that Leah couldn't find her keys as an isolated incident but more her reaction to not finding the keys and all of the other things like nodding out and always being late etc.

I know I'm in the minority but I feel pity for Kail.  I see her as someone who grew up with no role model of how to act right.  I think she tries and I think she often fails when it comes to romantic relationships but I think she is good mom to her boys.

[Uncle JUICE]

2 minutes ago, Miasmomma said:

If losing your keys is a sign that you are a dysfunctional loser then I must have a big "L" on my forehead.  I have a busy career, serve on multiple boards and have a great kid who participates in lots of activities and I lose my keys and my phone in my house from time to time.  And yes it's not that hard to find a place to put my keys...but my hands are full or I'm on the phone and life happens.  Then again perhaps the issue isn't that Leah couldn't find her keys as an isolated incident but more her reaction to not finding the keys and all of the other things like nodding out and always being late etc.

I know I'm in the minority but I feel pity for Kail.  I see her as someone who grew up with no role model of how to act right.  I think she tries and I think she often fails when it comes to romantic relationships but I think she is good mom to her boys.

I dont think Leah got so upset just because she lost her keys, we've all done that. It's her pattern of behavior and her sensitivity to the way she's perceived by the public at large (in diametric opposition to her self image of supermom), but more than that I think, it's because she went to some length to get her life to look the way she thinks will get people to say "She's awesome at momming." She had a cleaning service come through, nothing on the floors, everyghing vacuumed, dusted, no soda bottles lying about. She hid all her cigarette boxes from production. Hell, she even managed to pick up that vegetable tray and be back on time to start filming. She's right on the verge of being back to perfect mom, only to be revealed as same old disorganized messy Messer, undone by misplaced keys and right back into frantic, late, unpleasant, yelling. It had everything to do with confirming what people already figured out, that she's the same as she was a year, two years ago. 

[Tatum]

6 minutes ago, Miasmomma said:

 

I know I'm in the minority but I feel pity for Kail.  I see her as someone who grew up with no role model of how to act right.  I think she tries and I think she often fails when it comes to romantic relationships but I think she is good mom to her boys.

If by "good mom" you mean she feeds them, clothes them, interacts with them, and seems to enjoy their company, then yes, I would agree. I would also agree that Isaac is a very well behaved, compassionate child, and some credit for that must go to Kail (not sure about Lincoln- I don't really watch anymore).

However, I feel part of being a good mom is sucking it up and playing nice with your child's father because that is what is best for your child. Kail has routinely taken to airing out her grievances with Javi on social media, has sabotaged Isaac's relationship with Jo multiple times over a 7 year period, has been physically abusive to Javi- the list goes on and on.

[Tatum]

4 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I dont think Leah got so upset just because she lost her keys, we've all done that. It's her pattern of behavior and her sensitivity to the way she's perceived by the public at large (in diametric opposition to her self image of supermom), but more than that I think, it's because she went to some length to get her life to look the way she thinks will get people to say "She's awesome at momming."

Ha, for awhile we could have had a betting game over what kind of twitter post Leah would make directly in response to forums calling her out. Someone makes a comment that she feeds her kids crap? Next day, there's a post of Addie eating strawberries. Someone comments that she's a hoarder? She actually tapes herself vacuuming that teal monstrosity and uploads the video to her instagram. Multiple people joke about how she "baths" her babies? She posts a screenshot of an online grammar quiz she's taking.

[ReadMeLattice]

38 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, I haven't watched the episode, but it sounds like the gf and Nathan did not bother to get their stories straight while both trying to omit any mention of their part in escalating the drama, which led to an extremely inconsistent and unlikely account of what happened. If they had been more forthcoming in their testimony about their own immature behavior, they might have had more luck in getting the person who actually broke the law convicted.

I agree. If they had honestly said, "yes we were being immature and trying to make her jealous, but we did not assault her, she is the only one who got physical," or if Nathan had been honest about not seeing the assault but just the aftermath, and Jessica had admitted to being outside the car but said she had never touched Jenelle, just yelled at her, maybe Jenelle would have been convicted. But their complete narcissistic inability to admit any poor behavior on their parts just made it seem like the whole thing was total BS. Reasonable doubt for sure. I mean honestly, anyone seriously involved in an altercation with Jenelle is likely to have major issues themselves. It's not going to be believable that you are an angelic innocent bystander who was just classily sitting in their classy car when you were going to your baby mama's/boyfriend's ex's house and making someone like Jenelle so mad she throws something at you. Would have been much better to say yes, we regret starting the conflict and going over there but it doesn't excuse what she did. But these people are too stupid to know that.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lm2162

[Tatum]

5 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I agree. If they had honestly said, "yes we were being immature and trying to make her jealous, but we did not assault her, she is the only one who got physical," or if Nathan had been honest about not seeing the assault but just the aftermath, and Jessica had admitted to being outside the car but said she had never touched Jenelle, just yelled at her, maybe Jenelle would have been convicted. But their complete narcissistic inability to admit any poor behavior on their parts just made it seem like the whole thing was total BS. Reasonable doubt for sure. I mean honestly, anyone seriously involved in an altercation with Jenelle is likely to have major issues themselves. It's not going to be believable that you are an angelic innocent bystander who was just classily sitting in their classy car when you were going to your baby mama's/boyfriend's ex's house and making someone like Jenelle so mad she throws something at you. Would have been much better to say yes, we regret starting the conflict and going over there but it doesn't excuse what she did. But these people are too stupid to know that.

Agreed. I can't stand Jenelle, but if someone told me that she had just been sitting in a car, minding her own business, and an enraged Jenelle came charging over and threw a glass at her, I wouldn't believe her. Jenelle is crazy and Jenelle is violent, but I just wouldn't believe she would do that without any provocation.

 

It's possible that the jury would have been composed with a bunch of victim blamers that said things like, 'what did you think was going to happen?' and, 'you were asking for it', but there was also a chance the jury would have said, like us, well, that was immature and shitty on your part, but we still believe Jenelle intentionally threw that glass at you, not in self defense, but in anger, and therefore, we agree she's guilty.

It was a gamble, but telling lies to the jury that are not credible pretty much guaranteed her acquittal. Morons.

[DoctorWhovian]

15 hours ago, SimonSeymour said:

No, it's not!  And I didn't understand this AT ALL. 

I am an appellate criminal defense attorney and have been for almost 15 years.  I have despised Jenelle since the animal abuse, but if she had been found guilty based on that jury "trial" I would gladly have offered to represent her on appeal for free. There are so many things wrong with that trial that seriously disturbed me. 

1) The fact that a police officer (who I assume is not an attorney) acting as a prosecutor. 

2) That Jessica was sitting at the prosecution's table. 

3) That Jessica and Nathan who were testifying in court were allowed in the courtroom to hear anyone else's testimony.  Not allowed EVER!!  The only witness who is allowed to hear all testimony is the defendant (Jenelle).

4) The "tell me what happened" questions. Witnesses are supposed to answer direct questions; they are NOT ALLOWED to give a summary of what happened with no pending question. 

I could go on and on for pages about everything wrong about that trial. 

I was dumbfounded while watching it and had to conclude that it was either recreated for TV, or was a civil trial rather than a criminal one. 

I work on the civil side of things but the only explanation I can think of is that the cop is also a licensed attorney in SC. I can't imagine, even in a magistrate court (which is restricted in what cases it hears), a state allowing any criminal case to be tried by a non attorney (other than the defendant themselves) and not have those cases thrown out for unconstitutionality. I admit I wasn't paying attention to the show and was only listening, but from what I heard, I assumed that the prosecution was incredibly incompetent for their terrible witness prep. Then I remembered it was Nathan and it's likely they gave up on prep. At first I was thinking they were letting them testify in a narrative way, but I'm pretty sure that's only allowed (at least in CA evidence code) where the defendant themselves wants to testify and you know they are going to perjure themselves. (again, not on the criminal side, but it's definitely more interesting). However, it could just be a difference in SC evidence code, and it looks like the magistrate courts have their own, so all the problems you've already pointed out may be covered in the different rules of the court, except for it not being an attorney. (I don't think it's a civil trial because Jenelle was facing jail time and I still think you'd have to have an actual attorney as a prosecutor.)

Don't care about Kail skydiving but love the way she and Jo handled Isaac's behavior at the restaurant. Although I bet it killed Jo to hear Isaac say he wanted Javi. 

Aubree has her bad moments but she's obviously being raised well. I liked Chelsea acknowledging her want for some private moments (something they wouldn't think about at 16/17 when they signed on to the show) and how she handled her mom talking about Aubree in a wedding dress. Her mom is clueless though, which makes me laugh. But running from the moth? Ugh, I've always hated girls like that.

Leah's freakout was so unnecessary. You unlocked the car so the keys must be somewhere you put them, yet you ask your kids? You know when the cameras are there, get yourself organized.

Adam seems to expect Chelsea to tell the producers some things, but doesn't want her to tell the cameras other things, but won't communicate himself. Ok buddy.

I know not everyone agrees but I love the fourth wall stuff. Not the talking to the producers, but the general acknowledgement that they're on TV. The existence of the cameras changes the way they act, the ways other people react to them, and what they can and can't do, and allowing the cameras to be addressed changes how that is shown. I never watched The Hills but I remember some commentary on how it would have been so much interesting to see the way the show has effected their lives and what they get to do because they are on the show, then fake jobs and drama set up as storylines, and I feel that way here. Adam talking about what is and isn't shown is a "real" moment and a "real" conversation, it's a nice change of pace. 

[ghoulina]

44 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, I haven't watched the episode, but it sounds like the gf and Nathan did not bother to get their stories straight while both trying to omit any mention of their part in escalating the drama, which led to an extremely inconsistent and unlikely account of what happened. If they had been more forthcoming in their testimony about their own immature behavior, they might have had more luck in getting the person who actually broke the law convicted.

And I actually really do believe Nathan only went through with pressing charges because Jenelle wouldn't relent about custody. Would the state have pressed charges anyhow? I just hate the way those two use their child as a pawn. 

 

33 minutes ago, Tatum said:

However, I feel part of being a good mom is sucking it up and playing nice with your child's father because that is what is best for your child. Kail has routinely taken to airing out her grievances with Javi on social media, has sabotaged Isaac's relationship with Jo multiple times over a 7 year period, has been physically abusive to Javi- the list goes on and on.

She also really rushed into her relationship with Javi and now that it's dissolving, two boys are going to be very broken-hearted.

I do realize she had a rough upbringing and really had no idea what she was doing when she first became a mother. But that's not an excuse for life. How old is she now? She's seen enough of the world, of how others behave, to have it figured out. But she continues to be selfish. 

[poeticlicensed]

27 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I dont think Leah got so upset just because she lost her keys, we've all done that. It's her pattern of behavior and her sensitivity to the way she's perceived by the public at large (in diametric opposition to her self image of supermom), but more than that I think, it's because she went to some length to get her life to look the way she thinks will get people to say "She's awesome at momming."

Yup, she even said as much while she was launching into her tantrum. She has been bashed by the public, and rightfully so. Her identity hinges on being a "good mom". How many times has she said I'm a good mom, or Corey doesn't think I'm a good mom, or I'm worried that the judge will think I'm not a good mom, etc, etc. While I agree that kids deserve a good mom, maybe if she would stop getting into relationships and having babies she might be able to focus on something besides being a mom which would be good for her. 

[SimonSeymour]

4 minutes ago, DoctorWhovian said:

I work on the civil side of things but the only explanation I can think of is that the cop is also a licensed attorney in SC. I can't imagine, even in a magistrate court (which is restricted in what cases it hears), a state allowing any criminal case to be tried by a non attorney (other than the defendant themselves) and not have those cases thrown out for unconstitutionality. I admit I wasn't paying attention to the show and was only listening, but from what I heard, I assumed that the prosecution was incredibly incompetent for their terrible witness prep. Then I remembered it was Nathan and it's likely they gave up on prep. At first I was thinking they were letting them testify in a narrative way, but I'm pretty sure that's only allowed (at least in CA evidence code) where the defendant themselves wants to testify and you know they are going to perjure themselves. (again, not on the criminal side, but it's definitely more interesting). However, it could just be a difference in SC evidence code, and it looks like the magistrate courts have their own, so all the problems you've already pointed out may be covered in the different rules of the court, except for it not being an attorney. (I don't think it's a civil trial because Jenelle was facing jail time and I still think you'd have to have an actual attorney as a prosecutor.)

Yes, only the defendant is allowed to testify this way and it pretty much signals to the judge and prosecutor (but not the jury) that the defense attorney knows that the defendant is perjuring himself.  It is allowed because whether to testify is one of five decisions that only a defendant can make (meaning, defense attorneys have complete control over everything else - like what witnesses to call (or not call), theory of defense, etc.), while at the same time, the defense attorney can't suborn perjury.  So, the defendant gets his constitutional right to testify and his attorney is not committing a crime. 

It is completely INSANE to me that not only are non-attorney police officers allowed to act as prosecutors, but the MAGISTRATE, the person hearing a criminal trial, DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A LICENSED ATTORNEY!!  (Sorry for the all caps, I am just dumbfounded that this is allowed in any state at all). 

4 minutes ago, DoctorWhovian said:

 

[Mkay]

There are hints now on Twitter that Kail and her new boyfriend she showed off last week are broken up because, you ready? She hit him.  Dude commented that his mom said "haven't you seen the show. Why are you surprised?!" Then deleted his account. Now he's back on twitter.  

 

Javi and and his girlfriend broke up, too. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Mkay

[Calm81]

7 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I disagree. Jenelle was the one who turned it physical by throwing a glass. Period.

I agree that she turned it into a physical altercation and violence is completely wrong, what I meant by my post was that Jessica wasn't innocent as she knew her presence was going to instigate anger out of Jenelle. Jessica doesn't deserve to be hit or have objects thrown at her and Jenelle should have paid the price for her actions, but Jessica knew what she was doing when she showed up at Jenelles house. 

[For Cereals]

On 1/3/2017 at 6:45 AM, poopchute said:

She could bread chicken strips at home and bake them in the oven and they would be so much healthier!

Or get one of those air fryers...I really want one of those and the copper square pan.  I keep seeing the infomercials.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Mkay said:

 

There are hints now on Twitter that her and boyfriend she showed off last week are broken up because, you ready? She hit him.  Dude commented that his mom said "haven't you seen the show. Why are you surprised?!" Then deleted his account. Now he's back on twitter.  

 

Why am I not surprised? She's an abuser. I've never really seen her lose her cool with her kids, but I wouldn't put it past her either. 

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, Mkay said:

The car crash was July 6th.  http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2016/07/15/teen-mom-2-star-jenelle-evans-accidentally-confirms-her-third-pregnancy-after-months-of-denying-it/

 

On April 22nd, Ashley reported the court hearing verdict.  http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2016/04/22/teen-mom-2-star-jenelle-evans-found-not-guilty-in-assault-battery-case/

Thank you very much @Mkay and @poopchute. It is looking as if Jenelle and David celebrated their victory in court by doing a Maci and purposely getting pregnant.

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Okay, here are a couple of snippets from the South Carolina Justice Department's website:

"Prosecution of misdemeanor traffic and criminal violations in the summary courts may be made by the arresting officer or a supervisory officer assisting the arresting officer."  Someone upthread said s/he knew of cops serving as prosecutors in South Carolina, North Carolina, and some place else (Ohio?).  So apparently this is a real thing.

I also noticed this: 

"A newly appointed magistrate who is not an attorney licensed in this State may not preside over a trial until a certificate is filed with the Clerk of the Supreme Court stating that the magistrate has observed ten trials."

That could explain the, uh, casual nature of the trial.

Thank you @StatisticalOutlier for this information.

Geez. I can't wrap my head around this at all. How is this allowed? smdh

[Birdee]

47 minutes ago, Forcereals said:

Or get one of those air fryers...I really want one of those and the copper square pan.  I keep seeing the infomercials.

Mr. Birdee got me a copper square pan for Christmas ( I know, I know, but he tried  y'all) and I actually love it. The infomercials are hokey as hell, but I'll be damned if that thing doesn't cook like nobody's business. And seriously, NOTHING sticks.

[bethster2000]

18 hours ago, toodywoody said:

people like Leah have made it impossible for people who need the pain pills to get them.

This, one million percent.

It's as sickening as it is infuriating.

[monagatuna]

5 hours ago, Mkay said:

SHe went multiple times so that she could jump without someone attached to her I don't remember if she finished it or not. I'll go dig around. 

If you find it, post the info here, if you don't mind. I'll have some insight on the risk level depending on how far she got in the sport. Spoiler alert, it's still probably not that high. 

Kailyn definitely has her issues, but there are so many more things wrong with these people than the things she does, traffic incidents notwithstanding. Leah smokes like a chimney around her kids and let's not get started on what Adam, Jenelle, and Leah do behind the wheel. They're all gonna die from heart disease, diabetes, or lung cancer before they get hurt on a random tandem.

[monagatuna]

And I just need to vent a little bit more about these peoples' smoking habits. These are very young children with teeny tiny developing lungs, and their parents smoke around them. They're a captive audience, and they can't escape (or if they do, a la Addie, they're brought back home). It's one thing if you want to destroy your home, belongings, and body, but don't slowly poison your kids as well. And even if they claim they don't smoke in the kids' presence (which lol please), there is convincing evidence that the "third-hand smoke" that clings to clothing, skin, hair, walls, etc. can be dangerous as well.

For the love of all that is holy, keep that shit to yourself, don't turn your kids into smokers against their will. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

While I am as anti-smoking as a person can possibly be, my four siblings and I all were born into and raised in a house that was absolutely full of smoke.  We're a pretty healthy group, now between 55 and 70 years old.

I hate smoking, and can't even stand to be in the vicinity of a person whose clothes smell like cigarette smoke (and actually even hate e-cigarettes), but anecdotal evidence in the Outlier family of origin indicates that being exposed to smoke isn't necessarily terribly harmful.  Does that mean people should do it?  If you ask me, no.  But it's like many other risks that people take, and many other behaviors they expose their captive children to.

[ReadMeLattice]

I don't know. Is smoking directly abusive like hitting or grossly neglecting your kid? Maybe not. But if Jenelle ignoring her kid while he cries so she can have "me time" is messed up and neglectful (it is), and Leah living in total filth and filling her car up so much that stuff falls on Addie is (it is), and Adam driving recklessly with Aubree in the car is (it is), then smoking probably is too. 

[monagatuna]

44 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

While I am as anti-smoking as a person can possibly be, my four siblings and I all were born into and raised in a house that was absolutely full of smoke.  We're a pretty healthy group, now between 55 and 70 years old.

I hate smoking, and can't even stand to be in the vicinity of a person whose clothes smell like cigarette smoke (and actually even hate e-cigarettes), but anecdotal evidence in the Outlier family of origin indicates that being exposed to smoke isn't necessarily terribly harmful.  Does that mean people should do it?  If you ask me, no.  But it's like many other risks that people take, and many other behaviors they expose their captive children to.

But I mean, you yourself admit you're a statistical outlier.... ;-)

I know that exposure to secondhand smoke isn't an automatic death sentence, and for everyone who dies from lung cancer, there's a mawmaw's aunt's brother-in-law who smoked a pack a day and lived to be 100, but we know it's bad for you and we know it's especially bad for kids. People who grew up in the 50s who didn't know the dangers and got addicted can maybe get a pass because we KNOW how addictive it is, but Leah doesn't have that excuse--she just looks like she was born in the 50s--no matter how unwell the schools are out there.

[guilfoyleatpp]

On 1/2/2017 at 2:21 PM, FairyDusted said:

Organic hot dogs?

Organic Mac and Cheese!

On 1/2/2017 at 4:46 PM, poopchute said:

Yeah she's the smallest turd in this giant pile of shit.  I don't like her either.  I don't understand how anyone can like her after her poor dog got eaten by another dog due to her carelessness.  What kind of person lets their dog out unleashed in an unfenced yard when there is a "mean" dog next door??  

I'm still mad at Chelsea for this. It was just horrifying. And she was in a HURRY! Who the fuck lets their puppy go out in an unfenced yard to pee, not on a leash, when they're in a rush to get to a test?! Chelsea apparently.

On 1/2/2017 at 6:35 PM, Brooklynista said:

Didn't realize how much I missed my raspy voiced Aubrey. And dated if Lois Griffith isn't being ridiculous talking about Aubrey in a wedding dress. Simmer down idiot!

Lois. Shut up about Aubree getting married at 25. Shut. Up.

How did she and Dr. Randy even end up together? She's so dumb.

Stage whisper "HAS ADAM MET COLE YET?"

 

On 1/3/2017 at 6:45 AM, Uncle JUICE said:

I guess I was the only fuddy duddy who thought "Single mothers do not jump out of airplanes"? To me, yeah, there's a very, very small chance that something goes horribly wrong, but it's enough of a chance and the consequences are so ultimate that there's no way I could get around it: that small chance is the small chance that my kids are orphans, and split between two dads, because of something I chose to do, not an unforeseeable circumstance. it just seems really slef-centered. Especially with young kids, incapable of navigating the world on their own, I'm sorry, but to me you have to accept that there are limits on what you allow yourself to do. You can't bring home a stream of sexual partners, you can't go get drunk on a Wednesday night until 4 AM, you can't jump out of airplanes. It's just irresponsible behavior, (ETA once you choose to have children) even if nothing DOES go wrong. 

I hate when these girls complain that they get no "me" time to unwind. Welcome to fucking parenting. 

You're not the only fuddy duddy. I thought the same thing. I know it's been rehashed here to death, but it makes me think of the time Judge Marilyn Milian was talking about how she used to do night time scuba diving "before she had a reason to live" (i.e. kids).

It's not a choice I would make. But then being a teen mom or even an early 20s mom was not a choice I made. I'm 46 and I have a 5 year old. That is probably something that would make most of the girls cringe in horror, but having kids in your late 30s and early 40s is not uncommon where I'm from. I believe that I am older than mama Dawn. Also, I make a lot more money and I have an education, so I guess that makes up for not being a grandma at 46.

[leighroda]

1 hour ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Organic Mac and Cheese!

I'm still mad at Chelsea for this. It was just horrifying. And she was in a HURRY! Who the fuck lets their puppy go out in an unfenced yard to pee, not on a leash, when they're in a rush to get to a test?! Chelsea apparently.

Lois. Shut up about Aubree getting married at 25. Shut. Up.

How did she and Dr. Randy even end up together? She's so dumb.

Stage whisper "HAS ADAM MET COLE YET?"

 

You're not the only fuddy duddy. I thought the same thing. I know it's been rehashed here to death, but it makes me think of the time Judge Marilyn Milian was talking about how she used to do night time scuba diving "before she had a reason to live" (i.e. kids).

It's not a choice I would make. But then being a teen mom or even an early 20s mom was not a choice I made. I'm 46 and I have a 5 year old. That is probably something that would make most of the girls cringe in horror, but having kids in your late 30s and early 40s is not uncommon where I'm from. I believe that I am older than mama Dawn. Also, I make a lot more money and I have an education, so I guess that makes up for not being a grandma at 46.

You are my hero! I'm 34, no husband no kids and get comments all.the.time about maybe I should get started on that if I want to have kids...ya know because it was a conscious choice I made to be alone and I can change that anytime I please. I do have a degree and a career (I'm a RN) so I have that working for me :).

[guilfoyleatpp]

14 minutes ago, leighroda said:

You are my hero! I'm 34, no husband no kids and get comments all.the.time about maybe I should get started on that if I want to have kids...ya know because it was a conscious choice I made to be alone and I can change that anytime I please. I do have a degree and a career (I'm a RN) so I have that working for me :).

duuuuuuuuude, married at 39. Baby two weeks before my 41st birthday.

I guess I could have gotten married and pregnant younger (or just pregnant), but all you have to do is look at the chaos of these girls' lives, the revolving door of men (in most cases) and the lack of stability in careers, all personal relationships, education, they're not unique in any way, despite the money that has been thrown at them. My choices at that age were just as fucking stupid and selfish. Well, I never killed a dog or got arrested, but otherwise, I was very careless with other people.

[zenme]

Taylor's job is putting up with Maci.

[Mkay]

3 hours ago, monagatuna said:

But I mean, you yourself admit you're a statistical outlier.... ;-)

I know that exposure to secondhand smoke isn't an automatic death sentence, and for everyone who dies from lung cancer, there's a mawmaw's aunt's brother-in-law who smoked a pack a day and lived to be 100, but we know it's bad for you and we know it's especially bad for kids. People who grew up in the 50s who didn't know the dangers and got addicted can maybe get a pass because we KNOW how addictive it is, but Leah doesn't have that excuse--she just looks like she was born in the 50s--no matter how unwell the schools are out there.

My mother was just diagnosed with lung cancer right before Christmas.  She hasn't smoked since her 30s. She wasn't a heavy smoker, she smoked when she drank.  She has a lung that is 80% paralyzed from Prbly the many beatings she received by an abusive boyfriend. ? But now at 57 she has been diagnosed. Cancer doesn't run in our family. No one smokes in my immediate family. She had to keep changing apartments because her neighbors would smoke in a non smoking complex and she was breathing it all in.  She told them it was making her sick.  Now this.  2nd hand smoke? Quite possibly. 

[kdl88]

On 1/3/2017 at 10:17 AM, rayndon said:

It's common in smaller jurisdictions and for less serious cases for police officers to ask the questions / act as the prosecutor for their own cases.  I've seen it a number of times in N and S Carolina, OH.  

Someone upthread wondered about Nathan and Jess not being prepped for their testimony, etc and that doesn't really happen when there's no formal prosecutor or you don't have  your own attorney if you're the defendant.  The police officer in this case may have run through his line of questions with them but even if that happened it was nothing as extensive or as formal as what you see on tv.   

I mentioned witness prep. I'm an attorney so I didn't get it from TV. :-) 

[monagatuna]

5 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

 the time Judge Marilyn Milian was talking about how she used to do night time scuba diving "before she had a reason to live" (i.e. kids).

Wow, what a horrible thing to say. Your life doesn't "begin" when you have kids! I mean, it's great that she loves them that much and stuff, but that's really awful to imply that the childfree don't have a reason to live, or that she herself is so dependent emotionally on being a mother that she has no reason to live without them. I'm really kind of surprised, she always came off to me like a reasonable person. It's one thing to say the whole "my kids are everything/the best thing that happened to me" and actually mean it, but quite another to imply to people that she (and one could infer by extension, anyone) is nothing without kids.

Mkay, I'm so sorry about your mom. How awful. :(

[Uncle JUICE]

I was thinking last night about how much I wished there were cameras present in Nathan's attorney meetings. First of all, we can't entirely blame Nathan for the Park Ranger representation. The legal community of Horry county and the surrounding areas have likely all had meetings at one time or another with Jenelle, and therefore want to avoid the appearance of conflicts of interest by representing anyone against her (a defense Tony Soprano used when Carmela wanted to divorce him). And the attorneys who haven't taken meetings with her probably would just tell Nathan that they HAD. I wonder how many attorneys were like "Look, let's just skip all the court stuff and meetings, settle this out of court, and I'll send your bill directly to the collection agency it's likely to end up with straightaway." But the idea of witness prep, and a real attorney, having to do it with Nathan (whose lines are in bold). We cut to the inside of an office... 

"Mr. Griffiths, can you recount for me the events of {date}?" "I woke up in the morning, and then I went to the kitchen and made a protein shake..." "No, I mean the events we're going to court over, not the entire day." "Okay, so I went to Jenelle's and she threw a glass at Jessica." "With a little more detail." "It was nice out, but it had rained really hard recently." "No, I mean details about what happened with the glass." "She threw one at my girlfriend." "I know that, why did she do that?" "She's a bitch, I told you about that kid we have, right?" "I mean what caused her to throw the glass, in your estimation?" "If I had to estimate, I think probably  she had three drinks already or something." "(Frustrated huff) What were the events that happened after you drove into the driveway at Ms. Evans home, and before you drove AWAY from the home?" "That day? I drove over there a lot when I lived there." "Please, Nathan, concentrate. You drove into the driveway, saw your belongings, which I'm presuming are largely made up of man bibs and Axe body sprays, on her lawn. What happened THEN?" "(serious soft Nathan voice) Subsequently to me and my she-partner arriving at that CUNT's decimal,""Just say house, not DOMICILE, and restict your references to 'Ms. Evans' rather than "cunt". "Sequential to us arriving at her house, in which prior to therewith, I saw a tweet her boyfriend had communicated to his followers that I am a female, which is not true, so they are lying, but that tweet was retweeted," "Okay, I'm going to stop you here, please don't mention tweets again," "She then threw, or should I say flinged, or flunged, a container containing some sort of contained citation" "Nathan, you can say she threw a jar full of liquid, you don't have to wow the jury with your vocabulary, like the word libation" "She probably is a total libation now, I bet SHE's the one who's into chicks, right? Because that guy's totally the one who's a BITCH! (High five left hanging)" "At any point did you or Jessica threaten bodily harm toward Ms. Evans?" "Is this where I object?" "You don't object at all, number one, and I'm YOUR attorney, you can't object to my questions," "OVERRULED, bro!" "Let's try it a different way. You say you have pictures of Jessica after she was hit with this glass jar, right?" [Takes out his phone, shows attorney pictures of Jessica working out with him, of him and Jessica in the bathroom mirror taking selfies) "Yeah, these are a couple of weeks ago, check it out, dude, hashtag couple goals, am I right???" (Attorney shakes his head, pinches the bridge of his nose) "You know what, I just checked my calendar and I already have court scheduled for another client on this date. I'm sorry, but you're going to have to use this Criminal Justice student from Horry County Community College's adult education program instead." "That sucks dude, can I at least get a selfie with you for my instagram? Hashtag fifth amendment!" "Can we get your billing address?" "(snickers) Sure thing, just make it out to me, my name, totally which is Mr. Jason Griffin," "I know that's not you, and for the future, don't try that on the police, either."

Edited January 5, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[Tatum]

@Uncle JUICE, normally I avoid reading long paragraphs like that, but glad I took the time this morning. Love the fact that Nathan is mad that a false statement on twitter got retweeted.

[lezlers]

I finally got to watch this last night and it didn't disappoint! What in the fresh hell was that kangaroo court craziness that was Juhnelle's "trial?"  Since when is a cop a DA?  Since when does the victim sit with the cop come da at counsel table through the whole trial?  Since when do witnesses take the stand and ramble on completely unencumbered by those pesky QUESTIONS attorneys are supposed to ask while keeping within the rules of evidence?  WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST WATCH?????

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:09 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Ugh. I mean.. watching this makes me feel so sad for the kids.

Also how much does Janelle pay her lawyers? Because she has the best lawyers ever.

I kept cringing watching her lawyer smack her gum like a damn cow in court.  I couldn't imagine acting like that in court, any judge around here would have my ass.

[SPLAIN]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

I kept cringing watching her lawyer smack her gum like a damn cow in court.  I couldn't imagine acting like that in court, any judge around here would have my ass.

A real judge wouldn't tolerate it. A magistrate who is not even an attorney? That's another story. A few posters here have given us information about Horny County Superior Court. Yes, I typed it out as HORNY. 

It seems they do things very differently in the misdemeanor courts in North and South Carolina. One doesn't need to be an attorney to be a magistrate, and they only need to have heard ten trials in order to be certified (?) as a magistrate.

What I want to know is, what is the requirement to be a coroner in Horny County? Be a police officer for two years?

@Uncle JUICE that is perfect!

Edited January 5, 2017 by SPLAIN

[guilfoyleatpp]

8 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Wow, what a horrible thing to say. Your life doesn't "begin" when you have kids! I mean, it's great that she loves them that much and stuff, but that's really awful to imply that the childfree don't have a reason to live, or that she herself is so dependent emotionally on being a mother that she has no reason to live without them. I'm really kind of surprised, she always came off to me like a reasonable person. It's one thing to say the whole "my kids are everything/the best thing that happened to me" and actually mean it, but quite another to imply to people that she (and one could infer by extension, anyone) is nothing without kids.

Mkay, I'm so sorry about your mom. How awful. :(

I hope that didn't color your opinion of Judge Millian. It was sarcasm. And she explained it was sarcasm in the show. It just struck me as an amusing thing that seemed relevant to sky diving. In reality, night time scuba diving seems like a much larger risk than tandem sky diving.

Clearly, since I married and had my single child so late I don't think that single people and/or people who have chosen not to have children are casting about in lives without meaning. I certainly wasn't.

It is hard to convey meaning via screen, but it was intended to be humorous. I have nothing else to say on the subject, though. Cheers!

[Uncle JUICE]

36 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I hope that didn't color your opinion of Judge Millian. It was sarcasm. And she explained it was sarcasm in the show. It just struck me as an amusing thing that seemed relevant to sky diving. In reality, night time scuba diving seems like a much larger risk than tandem sky diving.

Clearly, since I married and had my single child so late I don't think that single people and/or people who have chosen not to have children are casting about in lives without meaning. I certainly wasn't.

It is hard to convey meaning via screen, but it was intended to be humorous. I have nothing else to say on the subject, though. Cheers!

I get what you're saying (and what she's saying). The way I explain it to people who either don't have kids or are about to have one is that having a child completely flipped the meaning of "You only live once!" to me, but it's no less meaningful on either side of the children. Before kids, I did things saying "You only live once" and sort of the punctuation on the argument against doing something that might be risky (not necessarily "bungee jump," but "streaking in broad daylight" or "skinny dipping in a public park" or "have sex in this Paris parking garage outside the car in the day time"...I guess a lot of mine revolve around being naked!). Once we had our first kid (not a product of the Paris garage!), it turned into "Take only necessary risks because I want to maximize every single minute I have to spend with this person we made." It's just as true. 

ETA that "you only live once" is one of the last arguments in favor of my getting a pair of tattoos at my age, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't only supporting lewd acts or public indecency with "you only live once"!

Edited January 5, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[monagatuna]

13 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I hope that didn't color your opinion of Judge Millian. It was sarcasm. And she explained it was sarcasm in the show. It just struck me as an amusing thing that seemed relevant to sky diving. In reality, night time scuba diving seems like a much larger risk than tandem sky diving.

Clearly, since I married and had my single child so late I don't think that single people and/or people who have chosen not to have children are casting about in lives without meaning. I certainly wasn't.

It is hard to convey meaning via screen, but it was intended to be humorous. I have nothing else to say on the subject, though. Cheers!

I'm a little embarrassed that I took you/her seriously because I really thought she had meant it! Good to know she's as normal as I thought she was. I always liked her and enjoyed trying to figure out what she was saying when she'd bust out a bon mot in Spanish. I'm fluent in Spanish, but Cuban Spanish is so different it might as well be Portuguese. She was a lot of fun to watch back in my college years when there was a lot of daytime court TV.

[Mkay]

9 hours ago, monagatuna said:

Wow, what a horrible thing to say. Your life doesn't "begin" when you have kids! I mean, it's great that she loves them that much and stuff, but that's really awful to imply that the childfree don't have a reason to live, or that she herself is so dependent emotionally on being a mother that she has no reason to live without them. I'm really kind of surprised, she always came off to me like a reasonable person. It's one thing to say the whole "my kids are everything/the best thing that happened to me" and actually mean it, but quite another to imply to people that she (and one could infer by extension, anyone) is nothing without kids.

Mkay, I'm so sorry about your mom. How awful. :(

Thank you. Praying she will be ok. 

[GreatKazu]

Going by the shenanigans in the people's court of Horry County including having a NonJudge, I guess it is safe to assume why it is Jenelle has gotten away with shit all of these years.

@Mkay hugs to you.

Edited January 5, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Mkay]

4 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Going by the shenanigans in the people's court of Horry County including having a NonJudge, I guess it is safe to assume why it is Jenelle has gotten away with shit all of these years.

@Mkay hugs to you.

Thanks. These boards are a great escape. Y'all keep me laughing. 

[sunsheyen]

1 hour ago, SPLAIN said:

It seems they do things very differently in the misdemeanor courts in North and South Carolina. One doesn't need to be an attorney to be a magistrate, and they only need to have heard ten trials in order to be certified (?) as a magistrate.

What I want to know is, what is the requirement to be a coroner in Horny County? Be a police officer for two years?

 

Any Horry county coroner is required to have been to at least one wake and two funerals. Chief Medical Examiner, two wakes, two funerals and a repast.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

What I want to know is, what is the requirement to be a coroner in Horny County? Be a police officer for two years?

Have a sharp knife?

eta: came across this when trying to find out about this infamous Mason jar:

http://radaronline.com/videos/jenelle-evans-arrest-assault-video-jury-police-evidence-tape-teen-mom-2-star/

Quote

The video, shot on Aug. 20, captured Evans immediately after the alleged incident. She is telling the officer her version of the events.

According to the police reported obtained by Radar, Evans threw a “glass Mason jar,” at Henry’s head and described what happened to the officer.

The report says Evans “stated that she walked outside and the victim got out of the truck. The arrestee claimed that she was in fear, so she threw water at the victim and the jar slipped from her hand. The arrestee stated that the victim caught the jar and threw it back at the arrestee, striking her back and then broke.”

However, the officer claimed that Evans’ description of the incident would have resulted in the shattered Mason jar landing in a different place.

“This would have made the broken glass somewhere farther in the driveway,” the officer wrote, adding that Evans also did not appear to have been struck.

“I looked and did not observe any redness or any other injury to the arrestee’s back,” the officer wrote.

Edited January 5, 2017 by GreatKazu

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, sunsheyen said:

It seems they do things very differently in the misdemeanor courts in North and South Carolina. One doesn't need to be an attorney to be a magistrate, and they only need to have heard ten trials in order to be certified (?) as a magistrate.

What I want to know is, what is the requirement to be a coroner in Horny County? Be a police officer for two years?

 

I am moving to Horry County, stat. I always wanted to be a judge, but there's that whole pesky law school and bar exam thing. Apparently not in Horry County! I'm in!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

@MKay, I'm thinking about you.

[Mkay]

8 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

@MKay, I'm thinking about you.

Thank you. 

[ReadMeLattice]

4 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

A real judge wouldn't tolerate it. A magistrate who is not even an attorney? That's another story. A few posters here have given us information about Horny County Superior Court. Yes, I typed it out as HORNY. 

It seems they do things very differently in the misdemeanor courts in North and South Carolina. One doesn't need to be an attorney to be a magistrate, and they only need to have heard ten trials in order to be certified (?) as a magistrate.

What I want to know is, what is the requirement to be a coroner in Horny County? Be a police officer for two years?

@Uncle JUICE that is perfect!

And to be a judge, you have to read 2 law books halfway through and question Jenelle and Nathan one time each. For practice. That's what you'll mostly be doing anyway.

Wow @Uncle JUICE, you are my hero. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Lm2162

[DoctorWhovian]

You don't have to be a lawyer to become a judge in multiple jurisdictions, including the Supreme Court, it's just not very common (and no SCOTUS justices have not been, yet). 

[GreatKazu]

Leah to Jeremy about him needing to stay in touch with Addie: "You need to Skype, Facetime, whatever. You need to do it for her."  Hey Leah, there is a lot of shit YOU need to do for your children. Her little guilt trips to the fathers of her kids are tiresome. Four weeks is a long time for a parent to not see their kid. I am sure Jeremy's mom will take Addie to visit him. He can also make a phone call. I have only used Skype once in all the years that it has been available.

Leah loves to put things into her kids' heads. In this episode she was telling Addie about her dad being gone when all she wanted was to eat her junk food that mom bought.

Question...where in the episode did Chelsea's mom talk about Aubree being married when she is 25 years old?

Edited January 5, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Christina87]

Oh I know. I bet a similar line of questioning led to backpackgate.