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S23.E02: Lights, Camera, Catwalk

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The Top 14 are summoned to runway boot camp with supermodel and runway coach Stacy McKenzie. Back at the house, the models get into a heated discussion about the state of race relations in America.

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Ooof. Well, is this really Cycle 23, or should it properly be called Reboot One or some such. Last week looked so GOOD, too..............on the other hand, Stacey McKenzie. Glad to see an her back since Cycle 3, was it? Still awesome. Best part of the show!

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HOW DARE THEY INTERJECT THE HAMSTER SHOW WITH REAL LIFE ISSUES ?

Show, I was rooting for you!

Bring on the cattiness, the ridiculous. Somebody pee in a diaper!

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I liked how they showed the preview for next week's episode before they showed who was eliminated...

Very telegraphed that it was going to be Justine this week.

Still too many girls, too many "stories" right now. But I was impressed with quite a few of them this week.

Are they putting up the show photos anywhere? I didn't get to see the last girl's photo too well.

Edited by niklj
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WTF with that preview of next weeks episode before elimination VH1?? Hope that was just a glitch and we don't get that every damn week.

IMo Justine should have been given another chance due to her age, and Krislian should have been sent packing.

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"I assume I speak for a silent majority of Top Model fans when I say the concept of runway training is dumb. Either you can walk in heels to the rhythm of chill-wave electronica while scowling sexily, or you can't."

Sorry, Alex, but I liked it back in the day when Ms. J would actually spend time working with the hamsters on their walks and disliked it when runway training just became an excuse for clowning. Some of the girls did managed to improve with instruction. Of course, that was when this show had something to do with modeling and wasn't all about the drama. Which I hate, so the "you're African - no, we're not" crap was a waste of my time, and the reason I usually tape ANTM so I can fast-forward through shite like that.

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2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Of course, that was when this show had something to do with modeling and wasn't all about the drama. Which I hate, so the "you're African - no, we're not" crap was a waste of my time, and the reason I usually tape ANTM so I can fast-forward through shite like that.

Hate drama too.... especially when having to listen to debaters from the school of Maury P. (loudly talking over someone and repeating your point over and over again.) It seems the African woman (sorry I can't remember names) didn't seem to get the point. Yes, POC are ultimately from Africa and of African descent. But, many of us do not know specifically where we're from. Many, if not most people of other groups can trace their ancestry back hundreds and hundreds. Sadly without the efforts of Alex Haley, most of us  cannot. The African woman seems to be argumentative and opinionated. She made a good point about professionalism and not touching the clothes on the rack... but, why be so overbearing about it.. and then to bring it back up in the kitchen. People like that drive me crazy. Let it go!

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The funny thing is, when Binta, Miss Africa, was asked where she was, she said Seattle! haha. She has an accent, so clearly she hadn't been born in Seattle. IDK, I just find it ironic that she is all I'm African but that wasn't her answer when asked where she's from.

That said, if she identifies as from Seattle, that's fine, and if the other black women identify as American, that's fine too, it's what they are, born and bred. Seems like an argument for the sake of an argument to me. Whatever. I don't watch the show for that shit. I  like the crazy photoshoots and pictures at the end. The rest is a chance to get something else done with background noise.

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Zendaya and Kyle's pic is up on her twitter

As for Justine's elim, it was pretty much spoiled a few weeks ago so not surprising and her pic was bad.  As far as Asian contestants, I'd have rather had Danielle but luckily for her, she's signed with Next L.A.

As for bad walks, Kendall Jenner and Gigi Hadid are not booked for runway because they are good walkers...

Edited by milkyaqua
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As soon as we saw Justine's family photo, I knee she was a goner. I also found it funny how they harped on how young she was.  Australia's Next Top Model just wrapped up - the average contestant age was 18.5, the winner was 16, and the oldest contestant was 25 (and constantly remarked on it). 

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Well that's a big reason why that Australian show is such a snoozefest, I don't wanna see a bunch of dull  teenagers with no life experience cry all the time.

I like the stupid drama back in the model house it's what this show is all about and this season so far is reminding me a lot of Cycle 3. It's like VH1 used that season as a template for their reboot.

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I just rewatched this episode this afternoon and now I'm starting to get people straight.......losing Justine was a bummer.  I've been rooting for an Asian American to get farther in this competition for a while.  That is one seriously underrepresented demographic, oddly.  I remember April (C2), Sheena (C11,17) and Shei (C21).  I think there may have been one more girl but I can't think of her right now.  BTW, can Stacey come back in the Miss J role?  THAT would be awesome. Why the hell is Rita Ora the host(ess) when the only one with smart comments is Ashley Graham?  I'm over the drama, no matter how current the issues are.  Whatever.  That India chick looks like a young Elisabeth Rohm.  I just realized Kyle is from the town over from my mother's family.  She has a bit of Marjorie (C11) in her.  Cherish well.....I like the red hair!  I looked up Coryanne's mom and I still have no idea who she is, but I will say Coryanne looked great with her hair pulled back like that.  A lot of those girls looked really good with less goo on their face and hair done right.  It would be nice if some of these girls put on clothes for judging (or walking) or in general, but I am indeed looking forward to next week....it is sad how quick this show has sucked me back in!

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1 hour ago, sourpickles said:

I just rewatched this episode this afternoon and now I'm starting to get people straight.......losing Justine was a bummer.  I've been rooting for an Asian American to get farther in this competition for a while.  That is one seriously underrepresented demographic, oddly.  I remember April (C2), Sheena (C11,17) and Shei (C21).  I think there may have been one more girl but I can't think of her right now. 

I believe that was Gina, and she was in Cycle 3? She was very timid and scared of the cockroaches that they had to wear on some random runway show. There was also Jennifer on the short girls cycle. She had one wonky eye, but made it pretty far.

Completely agree that Asians are super underrepresented.  :(

Edited by Zima

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One thing I noticed in this episode is all of the girls seem to be several steps ahead of the girls from previous seasons* insofar as posing for photos, because quite a few of them nailed their pictures (more than the numbers of girls who did so in the early photoshoots in their seasons). Perhaps due to many of them using social media to hone their skills in the months leading up to this season, that practice seems to have had some value as a learning experience. I remember Tyra telling many of the eliminated contestants from previous seasons to go home and spend time either practicing in a mirror, or having a friend/family member snap pictures of them and then study those pictures to learn their angles and how to find the light.

*I dislike the term "cycle" when applied to this program and won't use it. Every time I hear/read it I think "menstruation"...LOL!

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1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

*I dislike the term "cycle" when applied to this program and won't use it. Every time I hear/read it I think "menstruation"...LOL!

You and me both. I just don't get why it's a "cycle". Did they do more than one a year? Did TyTy think it would take off and become a "thing"? It's stupid.

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2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

You and me both. I just don't get why it's a "cycle". Did they do more than one a year? Did TyTy think it would take off and become a "thing"? It's stupid.

They did do more than one "cycle" per year.  But I agree that calling it that is stupid.

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Yikes! Some of those photos were pretty darn bad!

Poor Justine, she had so much more potential than that short hoochie Instagram model who should have been eliminated instead for that horrendous photo and her bad attitude. Oddly, she reminds me of Jenasia the short Hooters girl from one of the early cycles.

I didn't think the twin had the best photo but she was only given first callout to boost her self-confidence. The other twin had a much stronger photo overall and should've been called first.

Looks like makeovers next episode! One of the white models appears to have been given purple hair from the preview that was shown during the episode.

I think the girl with the supermodel mom is gorgeous and is currently my pick to be the winner this cycle.  Certainly looks like they are giving her a "backstory" of trying to overcome her mom's legacy and becoming her own person, so she will start out at the bottom and end at the top.

Edited by Mattipoo · Reason: Added content.
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4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

You and me both. I just don't get why it's a "cycle". Did they do more than one a year? Did TyTy think it would take off and become a "thing"? It's stupid.

 

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

They did do more than one "cycle" per year.  But I agree that calling it that is stupid.

Then when they added guys to the mix, I was really confused. Mind blown! LOL!

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On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 2:52 AM, blaase said:

IMo Justine should have been given another chance due to her age, and Krislian should have been sent packing.

Agreed! Didn't the one judge (can't remember his name, the Paper magazine guy) say that he hated her and would never book her? I for sure thought it would have been her after hearing that.

Binta seems like someone who enjoys arguing with people and always needs to be right. Paige seems like someone who is on all the time and never shuts up. Both are annoying. I laughed when Paige and Kyle were in the room and Paige was asking "was I being annoying" and Kyle said: "I didn't notice, I was focusing on myself." Yes Kyle, you do you and let the others scream at each other.

Makeovers next week! I love watching the meltdowns LOL

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  14 hours ago, sourpickles said:

I just rewatched this episode this afternoon and now I'm starting to get people straight.......losing Justine was a bummer.  I've been rooting for an Asian American to get farther in this competition for a while.  That is one seriously underrepresented demographic, oddly.  I remember April (C2), Sheena (C11,17) and Shei (C21).  I think there may have been one more girl but I can't think of her right now. 

I believe that was Gina, and she was in Cycle 3? She was very timid and scared of the cockroaches that they had to wear on some random runway show. There was also Jennifer on the short girls cycle. She had one wonky eye, but made it pretty far.

Completely agree that Asians are super underrepresented.  :(

Oh yeah, Gina. She was kinda clueless. That was cycle 6, the one with Jade and Dani(elle), who won. I use the Cycle term because I didn't on another board, don't remember if it was here on TWOP and I got dinged for it! Jennifer, I never understood how she got so far but my daughter saw her in Cosmo a few years back so I guess she got some commercial work. Good for her.

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As for the girls looking like they have more of a clue than past contestants, several of these girls are already signed with agencies and have worked.  India has a lot of pre-show work.  CoryAnne is signed with L.A. Models and another agency in Bali.  The twins have worked pre-show as well (most of it together).  Tatianna has pre-show experience.  Giah also and of course, Courtney.

This still doesn't excuse the fact that Tyra is picking girls who are too old and too short no matter how popular they might be on social media.

And yes, I also love Stacey Mckenzie.  She'll be back on another episode.

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I don't remember makeovers coming so early in previous seasons, but they do tend to run together. 

Kyle is the first semi-androgynous contestant that's really stood out for me since Kim Stoltz back in Season 5.  Too bad they don't have a Veronica Mars episode to award to challege winners this year!  *LOL*    

However these days, Kim's a high-powered writer and financial guru.  She's what these girls need to aspire to, not fleeting fame like a Jenner or Hadid.  Seriously, it's amazing how accomplished a hamster can become. 

I didn't care much for Stacey, she just seemed so over-the-top in every moment.  Maybe that's just her, but her intensity level seemed to be dialed up to about 27. 

I'm SO hoping that the absence of Tyra all the previous judges/bloggers/minions will bring Nigel Barker back as a guest photog.  I'm sure it won't happen, but a girl can dream!  I loved watching him behind the camera. 

Edited by leighdear
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Awe, good for Kim. I really did like her. Glad she found something more interesting to do than wear clothes for a living. I'm digging Kyle. She's got a great look.

I didn't care for Stacey either for the same reason. She was just too ON and while I should have been moved by her story I kind of wasn't. Not to sound mean because it's not meant that way, but if you look that different you should kind of expect that you're going to not be wanted as a model. Yes, the director or whatever was harsh, but that's how it is in that kind of business.

I would LOVE to see Nigel back! He's hot...but also a very good photographer.

I am glad the makeovers are coming so soon. I love the makeovers.

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1 minute ago, EVS said:

I can see that for the look, definitely. But there was something about her mannerisms as well that made me think of the other combo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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1 minute ago, Randomosity said:

I can see that for the look, definitely. But there was something about her mannerisms as well that made me think of the other combo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I get it now. I could see that!

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I'm always fascinated by "looks like" because to me the very first thing I see is face shape and Bynes/Faris have oval/round/heartshaped faces whereas Paige has a long skinny face and therefore to me could never look like either of the former!

Might someone be able to identify which of them was the one sitting down in the middle of the patio when Binta was yelling about them being Africa, the one who was most vocal about being American/not knowing where specifically she came from?  They had "confessional cam" afterwards but didn't ID her then either.  As they (all of 'em) keep doing different things with their hair, it doesn't help me!

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I used to really enjoy watching the girls develop as models over the course of the cycle, but I'm afraid we're just in for one attention-grabbing stunt after another, none of it really having anything to do with becoming a working model. I could have lived without the whole thing with Stacy with the voguers in Harlem. Vogueing is so over, it's dead and buried in the ground and nobody's looking to bring it back as a retro thing.

The show redeemed itself a bit when Stacy went to the house later for the (all too brief) coaching session. I will admit that I don't "get" Stacy. Not her look, her story, or her voice, but I liked her as a coach, once they all stopped goofing around. I'll have to take their word for it that she's an amazing walker, because they didn't show us any of that.

One of the twins is a better model than the other. I can't figure out which one it is, but one has consistently better photos and moves better when walking.

I didn't care about any of the judges' opinions. They just don't have the cred Tyra's judges did (minus Kelly cutrone and the later years). They don't offer any insight, and nothing they have to say is very interesting to me.

I feel like I'm watching a show on how to be internet-famous by being relatively pretty and obnoxiously extra in your personality. It bums me out, how far this show has fallen. I mean, we can't even get a good look at the photos anymore. It makes me suspicious when the judges are raving about a photo, because I have the feeling, if they gave us a good look at it, it would be a mess. Case in point: eyebrows' photo might've had good face, but why was nothing said about her pose? What the hell was going on with her hands and arms?

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The photos were all disappointing but I think the photography and lighting were a big part of that.

Judging did seem rushed but it's always like that when they have soo many girls, they barely have time to show them all.

Cherish said on instagram that the judges were brutal towards her and she dished it back at them, and of course they showed none of that, so I think the judges are being more critical but it isn't being shown.

 

I think the show is right on the money when it comes to having social media popularity, the models that are getting more work usually have strong social media fanbases, it's a part of the business now that is why showcards list models instagram accounts and why casting agents ask how many followers the models have. And Tyra has always been right on personality. some models it doesn't matter how bad their walks are or if their bodies aren't that great ( i.e. Gigi Hadid and Marjan Jonkman)  if they have a huge following or fun personality that casting agents love they are the ones getting booked over much prettier girls who don't have any social media following or dull personalities.

Edited by blaase
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14 hours ago, Jobiska said:

I'm always fascinated by "looks like" because to me the very first thing I see is face shape and Bynes/Faris have oval/round/heartshaped faces whereas Paige has a long skinny face and therefore to me could never look like either of the former!

Might someone be able to identify which of them was the one sitting down in the middle of the patio when Binta was yelling about them being Africa, the one who was most vocal about being American/not knowing where specifically she came from?  They had "confessional cam" afterwards but didn't ID her then either.  As they (all of 'em) keep doing different things with their hair, it doesn't help me!

I thought that was Giah...

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11 hours ago, blaase said:

I think the show is right on the money when it comes to having social media popularity, the models that are getting more work usually have strong social media fanbases, it's a part of the business now that is why showcards list models instagram accounts and why casting agents ask how many followers the models have. And Tyra has always been right on personality. some models it doesn't matter how bad their walks are or if their bodies aren't that great ( i.e. Gigi Hadid and Marjan Jonkman)  if they have a huge following or fun personality that casting agents love they are the ones getting booked over much prettier girls who don't have any social media following or dull personalities.

Very very true.  It's not just about modeling anymore.  Having a strong social media fanbase can make a model.  For example, there's a model now, Rose Bertram; she's kind of short for a model, but he does have a huge social media presence, and because of that she's booked jobs that she probably wouldn't have booked if she didn't have an Instagram account.   Like it or not, social media is here to stay.

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On 12/21/2016 at 2:43 PM, leighdear said:

I'm SO hoping that the absence of Tyra all the previous judges/bloggers/minions will bring Nigel Barker back as a guest photog.  I'm sure it won't happen, but a girl can dream!  I loved watching him behind the camera. 

I'd love to see Nigel back. He has a show called Top Photographer that's on Adorama's YouTube channel.

Anyway. He's a great photographer.

I remember when one of the challenge prizes, each cycle, was a nude photoshoot with Nigel. LOL.

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I was very encouraged about the reboot when they brought in someone to give them tips on their catwalk skills.  Then that turned out to be a prize for half of them, with the other half pressing their hungry little faces up against the glass, trying to get a hint.  Silly me, to think anyone cared about these girls being models.

Remember when Miss J would teach them walking and Tyra would stand there and give helpful directions?  Lift your chin and drop your shoulders to elongate your neck.  Push your booty out, bend your knee slightly. . .  And the makeovers used to make them look more polished and editorial--sigh.

Sad trombone wah-waaaa.

 

At least that one girl was told her waist was a little thick and she could compensate for that by twisting a few degrees.  The girl with one smaller eye needs to try for a lot of profile shots, I guess, because now I'm always going to be looking at her peepers.

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Yah, that "prize" was ass backwards. The girls who "lost" are theoretically the ones who really could have used the prize, since, you know, they sucked at walking the catwalk and the prize was how to walk a catwalk. But then, if I expected logic from this show, it would be well past time to commit myself to a very special padded room where I can color pretty pictures and drool on myself.

I do miss when they would actually get taught modely things. It made the show feel slightly more legit. And when the makeovers were about improving their chances rather than giving them ridiculous challenges to overcome.

I still remember when they gave poor Shei that horrible Cruella DeVil black and white number. I still remember that one "client" saying he would never ever book her with hair like that and thinking, it wasn't her choice! These girls are supposed to be pretty much blank slates. Remember when they used to tell the girls that jeans and a black tee were the best go see outfit (and panel outfit since they kind of fancied themselves as practice go sees) and now it's all OMG I love you're super special snowflake style!!!!

I wonder when, exactly, Trya decided this was 100% an entertainment show and no longer a competition show, because this is not a competition show. Sure there is a prize at the end, but it is all about whose win will make the best tv not the best model.

All that said, I love it. haha Guess I'm part of the problem.

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I guess I can admit that even with the increased production values and bumpin' background music this still isn't much of a modeling competition, but man do love a bunch of thus-far reasonably intelligent young women of diverse ethnicities and orientations being encouraged to take control of their images and be a "boss." Can't help it, for me it's the perfect answer to real world nonsense even if it isn't about finding a model or chronicling the way power can warp a person (really, the run of this show is the study of Tyra).

I felt bad for Justine, because I didn't know if the people holding her were far apart so it was hard for her to close her legs, or if they were far apart because her legs were.  I mean, you don't have a ton of control over your body when a bunch of people are holding you, I'd imagine.  I also feel like her story lacks closure- wasn't she the one who said she didn't tell her parents she left to go on the show?  How did they react?

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All of these reality shows are about entertainment, as for being a model, today things are different.  If someone has a large Instagram following, that turn into real fame.  People like Gigi Hadid, and Zendaya have large Instagram followings and if you have close to a million people following you on Instagram, a make up or hair care company might take notice and think, "if she pushes my product, maybe some of her million Instagram followers might buy it."  When Tyra started this show years ago, social media wasn't what it is now.  

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14 hours ago, phoenix780 said:

I felt bad for Justine, because I didn't know if the people holding her were far apart so it was hard for her to close her legs, or if they were far apart because her legs were.  I mean, you don't have a ton of control over your body when a bunch of people are holding you, I'd imagine.

"Falling over backward onto a crowd of men" was an excellent idea for a shoot.  All those rather anonymous handsome faces, hands, fingers made interesting background to the women/clothes.  But why in the world make that the very first challenge--before they've learned anything at all about which poses suit them best, or heard any 'do this/don't do that' advice??? 

If we were a few shows in, and they had a bit more experience, they could have called on a "sense memory" of how they should hold themselves--except now in the horizontal position.  With three or four shoots under her belt, I think Justine would have realized she shouldn't have her legs spread apart and sticking straight out.

*****

Next week:  makeovers AND nude photos.   Win-win!   : )

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On 12/20/2016 at 8:45 AM, proserpina65 said:

"I assume I speak for a silent majority of Top Model fans when I say the concept of runway training is dumb. Either you can walk in heels to the rhythm of chill-wave electronica while scowling sexily, or you can't."

Sorry, Alex, but I liked it back in the day when Ms. J would actually spend time working with the hamsters on their walks and disliked it when runway training just became an excuse for clowning. Some of the girls did managed to improve with instruction. Of course, that was when this show had something to do with modeling and wasn't all about the drama. Which I hate, so the "you're African - no, we're not" crap was a waste of my time, and the reason I usually tape ANTM so I can fast-forward through shite like that.

I actually saw one of the middle cycle hamsters (9-15) in a runway show before they filmed her season of ANTM. She had this ridiculous horsey walk that was almost nauseating. She looked like one of those Scooby Do animated running scenes where their legs are making those weird impossible circles. It was not good and you could tell that she just thought her walk was fierce and sickening. Ms. J did wonders with that girl. He straight up called her out on her garbage walk and managed to fix her worst habits.

I think Tash might be the twin who is a better model. She isn't the one who got the first call-out, but her photo just looked effortless.

The African/not African conversation requires a lot more thought and smarts than the hamsters usually have. However, I want to slap the stupid out of Paige who brought up Black Lives Matter and then expressed that she wanted Binta gone because she, Paige, doesn't like conflict. Even if Binta hadn't been there, this is a topic you could reasonably expect people to have strong opinions about.

On 12/22/2016 at 0:27 AM, blaase said:

I think the show is right on the money when it comes to having social media popularity, the models that are getting more work usually have strong social media fanbases, it's a part of the business now that is why showcards list models instagram accounts and why casting agents ask how many followers the models have. And Tyra has always been right on personality. some models it doesn't matter how bad their walks are or if their bodies aren't that great ( i.e. Gigi Hadid and Marjan Jonkman)  if they have a huge following or fun personality that casting agents love they are the ones getting booked over much prettier girls who don't have any social media following or dull personalities.

Social media is so important now. Gigi has a huge social media presence. Gigi has a mediocre walk, but she walks in all of the major shows. None of the houses makes any real money on clothes; it's all accessories and perfume. Most of Gigi's fans don't know this. If they let Gigi post her candids and use their photographs and video, Gigi helps them advertise to 10 million people who are more likely purchase the items that are the designer's primary revenue stream. Plus, they didn't really have to spend any money to advertise.

Edited by HunterHunted
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9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Social media is so important now. Gigi has a huge social media presence. Gigi has a mediocre walk, but she walks in all of the major shows. None of the houses makes any real money on clothes; it's all accessories and perfume. Most of Gigi's fans don't know this. If they let Gigi post her candids and use their photographs and video, Gigi helps them advertise to 10 million people who are more likely purchase the items that are the designer's primary revenue stream. Plus, they didn't really have to spend any money to advertise.

Very, very true.  Social media is free advertising for make up/hair/skin care companies.  

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3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Very, very true.  Social media is free advertising for make up/hair/skin care companies.  

Actually, social media isn't free when you want someone like a Kardashian or a Zendaya or Selena to show off your product.  Those people can make literally millions "advertising" products on social media.  Hell, a Bachelor/Bachelor in Paradise castoff (Amanda with the 2 kids) was making $20,000 a month from social media.

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5 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Actually, social media isn't free when you want someone like a Kardashian or a Zendaya or Selena to show off your product.  Those people can make literally millions "advertising" products on social media.  Hell, a Bachelor/Bachelor in Paradise castoff (Amanda with the 2 kids) was making $20,000 a month from social media.

I'm not talking about those who are celebrities now.  I'm talking about those who have Instagram accounts, many followers, but aren't well known yet.

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