Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Sew Sumi]

Given how much weight she gained with Giddyup, I wouldn't put keeping up the woo diet out of the realm of possibility.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Given how much weight she gained with Giddyup, I wouldn't put keeping up the woo diet out of the realm of possibility.

Yeah I was doing some Google-fu about it, and I think she first started posting about the diet back in December. It wouldn't have been more than a couple of months later that she would have conceived. 

[Saylii]

I really hope TLC wasn’t filming the ultrasound.  I don’t think I could watch that episode.

[Sew Sumi]

This is from mid-January. We didn't know her exact due date, but she conceived within a few weeks of this video. She may have stopped advertising after she learned she was pregnant, but still kept up with the shakes and no carb dinners.

eta: Hopefully @doodlebug can weigh in on how much possibly disordered diet can affect pregnancy. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[PikaScrewChu]

She was due early-mid November. Kendra is due first, (was) followed by Joy, followed by Lauren, and finally Anna. Lauren's due date has been speculated as November 17th because of an Amazon registry.  

[Barb23]

Poor Joy & Austin.  It would be interesting to know about her prenatal care.   I wonder if she was at one of those  storefront sono places or at a real doctor's office. 

Does anyone know how those storefront sono places work?  Are they allowed to tell you if something is wrong or do they refer you back to your doctor? 

Besides Amy, that is something they were all having girls.

I'm hoping they didn't have a circus of a service for her, if they had one.  

[Saylii]

I think a lot of it probably depends on the gestational age of the baby when she stopped growing.  If Joy had spotty prenatal care, it could have been a few weeks before the lack of heartbeat was detected.  If we’re talking about a 13-15 week baby, there are still a lot of reasons a miscarriage can happen.  Joy also likely didn’t have any genetic screenings, even the ones for the common chromosomal abnormalities that will almost always result in fetal death.

[mynextmistake]

40 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I wonder if she was getting any prenatal care besides woo woo midwives and Jill. Knowing this family, probably not. That picture of her and Austin is clearly at the hospital since Joy has an IV in her arm.

I know we all speculated that something "bad" was eventually going to happen to one of the women during pregnancy. I didn't think it was going to be so soon.

When a baby dies in utero they generally have three choices: labor induction so the mother delivers the remains vaginally, a D & E (where the cervix is dilated and the remains are removed by the doctor through the vagina) or a c-section. If I remember my OB class correctly, induction is the preferred method in a healthy mother because it has the lowest risk of complications. Any of these things would have to be done in a hospital.

I have to say that I think speculating that Joy’s diet caused the stillbirth is a bit unfair. We don’t even know if she was still dieting, and while I found research suggesting that a low carb diet in pregnancy can increase the risk of birth defects I didn’t find anything linking it to second-trimester fetal demise. It’s more likely that the baby had a chromosomal disorder like Turner syndrome that couldn’t be prevented or avoided.

Anyway I feel terrible for them. I’m actually glad they have their faith to help them through this difficult time.

Edited July 4, 2019 by mynextmistake

[PikaScrewChu]

1 minute ago, Barb23 said:

Poor Joy & Austin.  It would be interesting to know about her prenatal care.   I wonder if she was at one of those  storefront sono places or at a real doctor's office. 

Does anyone know how those storefront sono places work?  Are they allowed to tell you if something is wrong or do they refer you back to your doctor? 

Besides Amy, that is something they were all having girls.

I'm hoping they didn't have a circus of a service for her, if they had one.  

Boutique ultrasound places cannot offer diagnostic care where I live. They would have told Joy and Austin to go see a medical professional ASAP. I looked at a few boutique ultrasound websites in my area and they do not recommend doing the ultrasounds earlier than 25-26 weeks but it is a bit different here. Most medical ultrasound places won't reveal the sex at all. So you do the diagnostic ultrasound and then go get the boutique one if you so desire. 

I don't know about Arkansas though. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

 It’s more likely that the baby had a chromosomal disorder like Turner syndrome that couldn’t be prevented or avoided.

Is this something that would have been caught sooner ordinarily or is usually found at about this stage? (I don't mean that to sound accusatory. Am just genuinely curious.)

[Saylii]

It looks like Arkansas requires prenatal care after a c-section to be with an OB (or, at least the delivery can’t be with a licensed midwife).  Either Joy dug her head in the sand and was ignoring all medical treatment in hopes of a last-ditch at home birth (a la Jill) or she did have an OB.

[PikaScrewChu]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Is this something that would have been caught sooner ordinarily or is usually found at about this stage? (I don't mean that to sound accusatory. Am just genuinely curious.)

They're doing genetic tests now that can detect chromosomal abnormalities earlier and earlier. I remember friends doing them. However they are generally only available to people who can afford them.

There's also a stigma in a lot of evangelical Christian communities in getting genetic tests done because you should love a baby no matter what, even if it will pass away in utero or die shortly after birth.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, PikaScrewChu said:

They're doing genetic tests now that can detect chromosomal abnormalities earlier and earlier. I remember friends doing them. However they are generally only available to people who can afford them.

There's also a stigma in a lot of evangelical Christian communities in getting genetic tests done because you should love a baby no matter what, even if it will pass away in utero or die shortly after birth.

Thank you--that all makes sense!

I'm at that age where some of my friends are having kids, but I don't get exposed to the nitty gritty details. 

[Sew Sumi]

20 minutes ago, Zella said:

Is this something that would have been caught sooner ordinarily or is usually found at about this stage? (I don't mean that to sound accusatory. Am just genuinely curious.)

I'm curious as well, which is why I put a disclaimer in there that I wanted @doodlebug's assessment. 

It's a horrible loss. I hope Joy didn't have to carry that poor fetus around for days to go into labor like Mechelle did with Jubilee. At least Joy got to the hospital to deliver. I'm glad for that.

Jana has now weighed in. Confirms that everything happened some days ago.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Sew Sumi
Joy keeps turning into Not. Even in this edit.

[mynextmistake]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Is this something that would have been caught sooner ordinarily or is usually found at about this stage? (I don't mean that to sound accusatory. Am just genuinely curious.)

It depends. If Joy were getting routine prenatal care she might have been offered first-trimester screening consisting of an ultrasound and some blood tests that, when combined, can detect some chromosomal abnormalities including Turner syndrome.*  However, these are just screening tests and won’t detect abnormalities in every case where they are present. Currently, actual genetic tests such as NIPT aren’t routinely offered to women Joy’s age because their risk for chromosomal abnormalities is low. 

Even if a doctor had detected a problem, it wouldn’t have made any difference. There’s no way to fix a chromosomal abnormality in utero, and Joy and Austin wouldn’t have terminated the pregnancy in any case. They would have basically just been waiting to see if their baby lived or died. In many ways I think that would have been worse. 

*Obviously I have no way of knowing if this was actually Turner syndrome — I mention that specifically because it’s a not unusual cause of second-trimester fetal demise, especially of female fetuses. 

[mynextmistake]

27 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

They're doing genetic tests now that can detect chromosomal abnormalities earlier and earlier. I remember friends doing them. However they are generally only available to people who can afford them.

There's also a stigma in a lot of evangelical Christian communities in getting genetic tests done because you should love a baby no matter what, even if it will pass away in utero or die shortly after birth.

If you have insurance, the NIPT tests you’re referring to are routinely covered for women over 35 or women who are at high risk for chromosomal abnormalities. They would likely not have been covered as a routine procedure for Joy.

Sorry, I just realized I should probably explain NIPT! NIPT stands for non-invasive prenatal testing. It allows fetal DNA to be isolated from the mother’s bloodstream and examined for evidence of chromosomal disorders. Prior to the advent of NIPT, all in utero genetic testing was invasive, meaning it required collection of material from inside the uterus, and carried a not insignificant risk of miscarriage (around 1%). Some women opted out of the testing for this reason. NIPT can be done as early as week 9 and poses no risk to the fetus as it involves just a blood sample taken from the mother’s arm. I had it with mini Mistake and it was amazing. It allows them to tell sex, too, although that’s not the main reason for the test.

Edited July 4, 2019 by mynextmistake

[mythoughtis]

With the number of women of childbearing age in this family, it stands to reason that there will be several miscarriages between them over the years.  Anna, Lauren and now Joy.  And there’s no reason to think any of them did anything to cause it. Or could prevent it.

as to the rest of them living their lives, Joy and Austin might have controlled the flow of information and not told everyone right away.  Even if they were told, they can’t stop living their lives every time one of their 7 million family members has a set back- they’d never leave their house if they did. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Temperance]

God what a sadness for Joy and Austin! I feel awful for them. Sending them peaceful, healing vibes,

(On a side note, that spelling of Annabell is unusual. Annabelle (popularity #141) is the french spelling and Annabel (popularity #949) is the english spelling. )

[Sew Sumi]

Being on TV for so long, and now on social media for about five years, I think they know how to keep secrets until the primary party decides to divulge information. The Duggar leaks have all come from adjacents.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[heckkitty]

Well that didn’t take long. There is a post on Joy & Austin’s Instagram post about the miscarriage from Si & Lauren saying she’s sure Anabell and Asa are “best buds”.  They (and I’m assuming it’s Lauren) really are intolerable. It’s. Not. About. You. 😡

Edited July 4, 2019 by heckkitty

[Sew Sumi]

I'm surprised that Lauren didn't take this to her own IG page. Not surprised about the message; that was totally predictable.

[mynextmistake]

8 minutes ago, heckkitty said:

Well that didn’t take long. There is a post on Joy & Austin’s Instagram post about the miscarriage from Si & Lauren saying she’s sure Anabell and Asa are “best buds”.  They (and I’m assuming it’s Lauren) really are intolerable. It’s. Not. About. You. 😡

Why is she such a terrible person? 

Also, i’m not sure I’d pull this crap with Austin and Joy if I were her. I think most of the couples would be too meek or Godly or whatever to speak up, but Austin seems to have a deeply protective side to his personality and I’m thinking he’s not a walk in the park if you piss him off. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by mynextmistake

[galaxychaser]

3 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

Why is she such a terrible person? 

Young and dumb and self absorbed?

[galaxychaser]

The horror movies Annabelle have ruined the name for me.

[Lunera]

She is the freaking worst

[mynextmistake]

6 minutes ago, Lunera said:

She is the freaking worst

The Bates girls: Here is a caring and appropriate message.

Lauren: ME! Meeeeeeee! You can’t spell awesome without ME! Oh, yeah, sorry about your dead baby. Hey, did you know Bay-BEE rhymes with ME?!?!

I mean, i’m a Christian but if I were Joy right now I’d want to cut a bitch. 

[Sofa Sloth]

1 minute ago, mynextmistake said:

The Bates girls: Here is a caring and appropriate message.

Lauren: ME! Meeeeeeee! You can’t spell awesome without ME! Oh, yeah, sorry about your dead baby. Hey, did you know Bay-BEE rhymes with ME?!?!

I mean, i’m a Christian but if I were Joy right now I’d want to cut a bitch. 

Oh thank god you all feel this way too!

I’ve never posted on this thread before, but I just came here to say how inappropriate is this girl?

Any pregnancy loss is brutal, but as if she is actually comparing a chemical pregnancy she had months ago, to Joy having to deliver her 20 week stillborn baby here! Especially when she herself is now pregnant with a baby girl that Joy now has to watch play out. This post is not about her loss and not the place to make it about her. Ugh self-absorbed smug wench. My only comfort is she’s getting slammed for it, in the reply comments below hers (as she should!)

[GeeGolly]

What a sad time for Joy and Austin. I know everyone has their own thoughts on miscarriage and loss and feels the impact in their own way. For me the farther along one is the greater the impact. Joy's been pregnant for almost 5 months and likely felt the baby move. Every day that passes the more attached one becomes and the more daydreams of the future of the baby one has. I'm not saying early miscarriage doesn't come with grief, but to me the circumstances are different and the grief is different too.

Even in the medical world weeks matter. The terminology changes from miscarriage to stillbirth at around the 20th week. I understand the loss of a future baby is hard and everyone owns the right to whatever feelings they have, but to me personally there are differences between Lauren's loss and Joy's loss.

My heart goes out to Joy and Austin and all on these boards who have not carried a pregnancy to term. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Can Lauren have just an ounce of chill? 

She reminds me of a friend I had in college.  Her best friend passed away just days before our mutual friend had an emergency c-section.  After an extremely rough delivery friend 1 says “This baby was so lucky to have had my best friend there in the room watching over her!” Needless to say, the friend who’d just been through an extremely rough delivery was none too pleased (and a bit creeped out) to hear credit being given to a deceased girl she didn’t even know. She made our friend’s moment all about her and her own grief, which is exactly what Lauren is doing in this situation.  Read.the.room.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[WalrusGirl]

3 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I wonder if she was getting any prenatal care besides woo woo midwives and Jill. Knowing this family, probably not. That picture of her and Austin is clearly at the hospital since Joy has an IV in her arm.

Yeah, unfortunately I think she would have had to be induced and deliver. 😢

3 hours ago, Saylii said:

I think a lot of it probably depends on the gestational age of the baby when she stopped growing.  If Joy had spotty prenatal care, it could have been a few weeks before the lack of heartbeat was detected.  If we’re talking about a 13-15 week baby, there are still a lot of reasons a miscarriage can happen.  Joy also likely didn’t have any genetic screenings, even the ones for the common chromosomal abnormalities that will almost always result in fetal death.

A problem with the placenta itself, versus the fetus, would also be very on the table at 20 weeks. 😔 I think the placenta will automatically be sent to pathology, whether or not any tests are run on the baby.

3 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

When a baby dies in utero they generally have three choices: labor induction so the mother delivers the remains vaginally, a D & E (where the cervix is dilated and the remains are removed by the doctor through the vagina) or a c-section. If I remember my OB class correctly, induction is the preferred method in a healthy mother because it has the lowest risk of complications. Any of these things would have to be done in a hospital.

I have to say that I think speculating that Joy’s diet caused the stillbirth is a bit unfair. We don’t even know if she was still dieting, and while I found research suggesting that a low carb diet in pregnancy can increase the risk of birth defects I didn’t find anything linking it to second-trimester fetal demise. It’s more likely that the baby had a chromosomal disorder like Turner syndrome that couldn’t be prevented or avoided.

Anyway I feel terrible for them. I’m actually glad they have their faith to help them through this difficult time.

Very much agreed on all points.

[ChaChaSlide]

Lauren is incorrigible, Christ. She reminds me of Caylea from the now defunct Little Women Dallas. She too had a late period miscarriage before the gestational sac could even be visualized, but constantly compared her pain and loss to Emily, a castmate who lost her son from severe congenital birth defects when he was 2 months old. Long story short, Emily lost it and spat in her face. Lauren might need that type of wake up call.

Miscarriages are sad but they are incomparable to stillbirths or the death of a child. If she couldn’t say anything without bringing up “Asa”, she shouldn’t have said anything at all ugh!

[sleepysuzy]

How very sad for Joy and Austin. At the 20 week point, most women are still only seeing their providers once a month unless they have known complications in pregnancy. 

If you read Joy's Instagram responses from other people,  you'll see lots of other women and some men are commenting with stories of their own losses, at all stages of pregnancy and even infant and child loss. Amy says she's sure Annabell is with Grandma in heaven. I don't think what Lauren said is offensive in their culture. It reads more like comfort: Annabell is not alone, she's with family and Jesus, etc.

[ginger90]

Saw this news on Facebook. My heart actually sank. I feel bad for them.

[BetyBee]

Such sad news.  I'm glad that Joy and Austin are finding comfort in their faith.  Such a terrible loss for them.  

[Snow Fairy]

So sad.

But there are lots of things that could cause misscariage in this point, but I don't think stress or dieting are one of them. 

Placenta problems, chromosomal issues, infection... Maybe real prenatal care could have prevented it,maybe not

[ginger90]

As of right now, there are 91 comments in response to Lauren’s. Many remark that it’s not about her.

Other comments from family:

[sigmaforce86]

7 hours ago, nightmeri said:

It is truly sad and I am hoping against hope that Lauren holds her tongue and doesn’t say something about “the cousins” being together in heaven. She needs to step back and be quiet 

She didn't step back or keep quiet, I don't think she knows how.  Good thing you didn't put money on it that's a bet you were sure to lose.  There's likely to be some talking head next season with her where she'll mention her current pregnancy, then in a breathy overly dramatic voice mention Asa at least five times, throw in a comment about how he and Annabell are playing together in heaven then bring it back to Asa while dabbing moisture from one eye.

Sorry but that's the only thing I can snark on since I recently re-watched those episodes and even though I don't doubt she had sadness over the loss seeing it now she looks even more like she's putting on the act she thinks production wants, trying to say all the "right" things in the most dramatic camera ready way possible.

I can't and wouldn't want to make any snarky comments on Joy and Austin's loss, to get nearly halfway through, have the bump, be ready to hear the heartbeat and get the gender then be told there's no sign of life, that must be just terrible.  Is this just how it goes or are we starting to see a pattern from the over-fertile Michelle to her daughters.  Jessa is doing OK but two hospital worthy hemorrhages out of three pregnancy's may be a hint about what #4 could be like if they go for it, Jill had the mystery complications with Sam's birth and no pregnancy since, Jinger is apparently into family planning so we can't know what multiple births might have in store for her and now Joy loses her second baby.  Out of the four married daughters (not counting DIL's) that's a 75% problem rate, possible genetic reasons or just coincidence and that's how some pregnancy's go?

[NotthebadVictoria]

7 hours ago, PradaKitty said:

Maybe this will shut Lauren up about losing Asa! 

Nope, she’s going to post about fully understanding that loss........ 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[JennyMominFL]

I feel terribly for joy. Last April,  my daughter had to deliver her deceased 20 weel old child. It was horrifying. They let her hold him for hours. Its going to take Joy a while to get over this. I feel awful for her. You dont just get over this.

[floridamom]

Obviously the biological Duggar daughters are NOT built to have babies so easily. Every one of them, from now on, should seriously consider using properly trained obstetricians for their prenatal care and deliver in a hospital. They also should space out their pregnancies better. I think Michelle gave them an unrealistic impression about conception, pregnancy and delivery. It's not always a 'piece of cake."

[NotthebadVictoria]

7 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Obviously the biological Duggar daughters are NOT built to have babies so easily. Every one of them, from now on, should seriously consider using properly trained obstetricians for their prenatal care and deliver in a hospital. They also should space out their pregnancies better. I think Michelle gave them an unrealistic impression about conception, pregnancy and delivery. It's not always a 'piece of cake."

Shitty prenatal care can cause a lot of long term consequences for the child. These girls aren’t as healthy as they think because they have a shit mother from conception.

[GeeGolly]

I would never want to blame a mom for a miscarriage. Many very healthy moms miscarry and many unhealthy moms carry to term. I do think the Duggars are rather casual and maybe even neglectful in their pregnancy care and most certainly with their delivery choices, but I doubt Joy's prenatal care or lack there of contributed to this loss.

Edited July 4, 2019 by GeeGolly

[Faul McCartney]

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I have to say that I think speculating that Joy’s diet caused the stillbirth is a bit unfair. We don’t even know if she was still dieting, and while I found research suggesting that a low carb diet in pregnancy can increase the risk of birth defects I didn’t find anything linking it to second-trimester fetal demise. It’s more likely that the baby had a chromosomal disorder like Turner syndrome that couldn’t be prevented or avoided.

I completely agree. Speculating she caused the miscarriage AT ALL is cruel. Most likely there was something seriously wrong with the baby - it was incompatible with life. Or something happened to her placenta. I’m 20 weeks pregnant and if someone said one word to me about being a cause of losing my baby, I might actually murder them. 

If she was 20 weeks last week, the earliest she could have found out she was pregnant would have been end of February or early March. If she was too thin to carry a baby, she either wouldn’t have gotten pregnant or would have lost it much sooner. It’s possible she did lose the baby sooner and didn’t know, but this being her second, she probably would have expected/been feeling the baby move these last few weeks. I’m pregnant with my second and have felt him moving for weeks. It’s truly awful but sometimes fetuses just die. 

I hope they are able to bring each other comfort. And that no one says a single fucking word to them about god’s will 🤬

[Lisa418722]

I feel so sorry for Joy.  It's going to be really hard in the next few months with all the babies (girl babies) being born in her family. 
And just because I feel the need to say it: Lauren, shut up, Shut Up, SHUT UP.  I've never been pregnant so I can't judge her on how she has felt her loss, but there is a major difference in a heavy period and a 20-week stillbirth.  Joy felt her baby and she saw that she was pregnant.  Lauren had a positive pregnancy test and then had a period. 
I did like what the Bates' and Joy's other siblings said, they were heartfelt and gave me hope that sometimes the family does know what to say. They didn't make it all about ME ME ME and MY LOSS.  Thinking about it: has Jill said anything yet?

[GeeGolly]

Jill did post yesterday - about a give-away.

Edited July 4, 2019 by GeeGolly

[Snow Fairy]

That would be all girls in this round of pregnancies right?

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I know it's probably too soon, but I can't help but wonder if Joy's woo diet (zero carbs to lose baby weight that she kept up even after she lost all that weight and thensome) had something to do with this? She pimped out the diet on IG a few times. Bobby Ballinger's mother (Joy's BIL through Austin's sister) was her "coach." 

Sorry, but I felt that it needed to be said.

It's unlikely that her diet prior to pregnancy was the cause of the loss.  Lots of women follow strict diets for a variety of reasons and, if anything, a low carb diet is similar to a diabetic diet, which is actually pretty healthy.

I feel for Joy and Austin in this tragedy and hope that Meechelle can pull her head out of her own a**, and, having suffered a mid-trimester loss herself, helps comfort them as they grieve.

It is going to be a tough, tough time for Joy and Austin as the baby girls keep coming this fall.

[PikaScrewChu]

6 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

If you have insurance, the NIPT tests you’re referring to are routinely covered for women over 35 or women who are at high risk for chromosomal abnormalities. They would likely not have been covered as a routine procedure for Joy.

Sorry, I just realized I should probably explain NIPT! NIPT stands for non-invasive prenatal testing. It allows fetal DNA to be isolated from the mother’s bloodstream and examined for evidence of chromosomal disorders. Prior to the advent of NIPT, all in utero genetic testing was invasive, meaning it required collection of material from inside the uterus, and carried a not insignificant risk of miscarriage (around 1%). Some women opted out of the testing for this reason. NIPT can be done as early as week 9 and poses no risk to the fetus as it involves just a blood sample taken from the mother’s arm. I had it with mini Mistake and it was amazing. It allows them to tell sex, too, although that’s not the main reason for the test.

Yeah that's what I was referring to. I knew people who weren't high risk that got it done ASAP but paid out of pocket when it first came out and it was around 700-800 dollars. For some it was a matter of finding out if there were chromosomal abnormalities. For others it was the novelty of finding out the sex ASAP. Money makes the world go round. 

I'm going to be point blank with this. Yes decent prenatal care may have not prevented this. However I've had friends who were evangelical Christians who dealt with the same situation as Joy but with excellent ob/gyns who were there through every step. There is a lot of medical and psychological help available if they detect something wrong (provided you're with a good ob/gyn) that isn't some fly by night church "counselor". It has helped them get through the loss. Marriages and other relationships have broken up over much less. As much as their faith forbids divorce, this takes a toll. And now you have Lauren screeching about Asa which may hurt family relationships. I'm always wary of "their faith will provide comfort". Their faith tells them they are supposed to be open to as many children as possible and Joy has been raised in an environment where pregnancy (minus Jubilee) goes a-ok. There's a disconnect between their faith giving comfort and how their faith instructs them to live their lives. At least how I see it anyway. 

Unfortunately I don't think they will seek out psychological help. We will get a Very Special Episode about them finding out and then another Very Special Episode about how Joy is coping after Kendra and Lauren give birth instead. 

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, Barb23 said:

Poor Joy & Austin.  It would be interesting to know about her prenatal care.   I wonder if she was at one of those  storefront sono places or at a real doctor's office. 

Does anyone know how those storefront sono places work?  Are they allowed to tell you if something is wrong or do they refer you back to your doctor? 

Besides Amy, that is something they were all having girls.

I'm hoping they didn't have a circus of a service for her, if they had one.  

Every Duggar pregnancy we've seen has had the gender reveal done at one of those storefront boutiques, not a medical ultrasound center.  People who go there sign a release stating that they understand that no medical information will be obtained.  However, all of the technicians are trained and licensed in ultrasound and would've been able to diagnose a fetal demise at 20 weeks without any difficulty.  I'm sure they told Joy and Austin what they saw and then told them to contact their provider or go to the nearest hospital with an ob department for confirmation.  Certainly if a patient came to me with a social ultrasound that said her baby was dead, I'd repeat the ultrasound myself and confirm things before doing anything else.

There are a lot of reason for midtrimester losses, most are never discovered.  Other than things like incompetent cervix or ruptured membranes or placental abruption which tend to present with symptoms; most common are genetic problems, placental malformations, possibly transmission of a virus from the mom.  Most of the time, there's no specific answer.

If Lauren is sharing her feelings with Joy, that her loss is just the same as Joy's, no different; she needs to step off and shut up.  Nobody needs their grief overshadowed by someone else' sorrow and comparing her loss to Joy's, whatever the circumstances is simply selfish of Lauren.  I hope Joy doesn't see Lauren's social media and Lauren manages to keep her mouth shut around her.  Josiah needs to step in and tell her to keep her prior loss to herself.  Lauren's post suggests to me that she's just a little hurt that Joy has stolen her thunder and now Lauren's drama will be shuttled aside by Joy's tragedy.  Shut Up, Lauren.

Edited July 4, 2019 by doodlebug

[ginger90]

Anna reposted Joy and Austin’s Instagram post. She’s an idiot.