S06.E10: Wish You Were Here

[Frozendiva]

Don't know if I'll be back in March. Only watched this first chunk to see if things improved from last season's finale.

[KingOfHearts]

Disney Princess Emma isn't inherently a bad idea on paper. I don't think she had to grovel at Regina's feet and surrender her kingdom to fit that archetype. Not all traditional princesses are that weak and submissive. With Snow and Charming using "we never give up" and "good always wins" mantra, it was weird that Emma gave up so easily. It made her look like a total coward for doing nothing to save her parents. Even if she didn't know what to do, if she really cared about them, she would be angry. She would do whatever she could to save them. Surrendering was most convenient for her fear, it wasn't like the only option she could possibly think of. It was like Rumple in S2 when he just refused to fight for his wife, son to think of and all.

If she was a Crown Princess, wouldn't she have a council to consult? Why didn't the dwarves try to formulate a plan? If the Blue Fairy banished the Evil Queen before, couldn't she do it again? Why was the kingdom totally okay with the throne's heir going alone? This is the Teen Bandit Snow problem all over again.

The first Fake World scene with Emma talking to her parents seemed more legit. Her dream made it sound like she would gradually figure out who she really was. But, at the end of the day, she didn't need to know about "Storybrooke" or Regina being from the real world. That moment when she stopped Henry was all she needed to gain everything back. She didn't need any convincing at all. Even Regina's charade to make her a hero did nothing. It just indirectly created the solution by chance. There are no buildup. After Emma came to, it was just like, "Oh, thanks Regina. That was pretty crazy," and they just moved on. Ok, what was the point then? We learned nothing and neither did the characters.

I hate watching Regina save the day while Zelena is probably crying into her cereal.

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My heart broke. :-/ It made me hate Regina.

I think the scene with Regina killing "Snowing" is made exceptionally worse when you put it into context. If she were really Emma's supportive best friend and she was simply trying to wake up her (and felt bad about having to do it), it wouldn't be so dark. Given her malice toward the Charmings over the years (and with the Evil Queen in SB), it came off as very callous. It's as if she didn't care about Emma's feelings, princess or not, and simply needed to get the hero back to Storybrooke. This is another instance of the writers making "doing the hard/gray antihero thing" part of Regina's DNA.

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Regina saving Emma. She had good intentions but it was a bad idea to send herself.

Don't know why the heck Regina didn't just wish Emma to be back.

Edited December 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[MaiLuna]

Why does Emma have to be a coward and "not herself" to justify the curse? Though I don't really mind Emma being terrified, I'd probably be scared and cry if I was in front of an evil powerful witch threatening to kill my mom too. 

Regina saving Emma. She had good intentions but it was a bad idea to send herself. Plus we don't need any more hero Regina and SQ friendship. 

I'm pissed that I didn't get my Captain Duckling meeting. You had the chance, A&E! Ugh. But Emma still got to sleep with Baelfire (I really hope that somehow without the curse he still had his Bae personality and that's why he was a hero and all). But Bae, Henry, Young Robin who was still a thief (Marian was probably always meant to die! /s) and Rumpel knowing where to find a bean were total unexplained plotholes. Also, why was Bae dead and not Robin? Is Bae/Neal meant to always die too?

And have they forgotten that you can't change masters of the lamp without making the 3 wishes first? Sigh. 

I liked what the EQ told Regina. She got her wish. She changed her mind and it was late, but she got it. Be careful what you wish for. Though I don't know where the EQ sees that Regina has self-hatred. She thinks she's a hero and deserves a happy ending. The EQ got rapey again with Aladdin but they still don't bring up Graham.  

I don't blame Regina for staying at the end. We'd all probably do the same if we saw a dead loved one. 

Question: what did Henry call Emma in his first appearance in the WishAU? 

[Souris]

2 hours ago, Katherine said:

Emma's line readings, in particular, seemed stilted somehow.  

Probably because JMo knew what utter, pandering crap it was. Must be hard to try to act that as truth.

[Camera One]

I'm really disappointed right now.  I knew we were getting an AU and at the very least, I expected a fun "what if" episode.  But once again, it was more about the Emma/Regina bond than about Emma getting the life that she could have gotten.  The AU Emma was so ridiculously pathetic that she was a laughable caricature.  Jennifer Morrison is a great actress, but she couldn't even make those lines work.  Their next step was to make Old Charming and Snow look as unattractive and useless as possible.  They might as well be another painting on the wall.  They needed Henry there so Emma could remember just in time to stop him from killing Regina, and for that, they needed to mention Neal, even though he would never have been found without the Dark Curse.  Clearly, very little thought went into this.  The only "fun" thing was watching Emma singing in the woods, and then Regina appeared and it became another "Breaking Glass".

The present-day Storybrooke stuff was even more of a mess.  Instead of pass the potato, it was pass the magical lamp.  There was no reason why The Evil Queen would have lost possession of it, no reason that David could have gotten it, or Jasmine could have grabbed it.  And what was with everyone being so cavalier about making wishes with that cursed object anyway.  The lamp was an easy and sloppy magical solution to move the plot forward, nothing more.

So The Evil Queen can hear all?  She knew Jasmine had the lamp?  And she couldn't kill David because "death is too good for you."  And Rumple knows all too.  He's mad, but not mad enough to kill The Evil Queen yet.  Everything the characters did felt contrived, including Regina, David and Hook yelling at one another, with Regina doing the yelling FIRST and then declaring that they should all stop because "we're doing what she wants" five lines later.

So now there's "A realm of dark magic"?  Where "time runs differently"?  What?  I have no words with Belle's line, "What have WE done to each other".  

I thought the AU Rumple was the person in the hood, because they made it seem like Regina might be making a mistake in letting him go free.

[Stuffy]

So the whole point of the original curse was to find Baelfire but in this alternative world Bae was still Emma's baby daddy. It was really dumb for Rumple to still be talking about that original curse because apparently his son was no longer lost just dead. Rumple wouldn't need a curse anymore. 

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, Souris said:

Probably because JMo knew what utter, pandering crap it was. Must be hard to try to act that as truth.

it reminded me of the season 5 finale when Henry is like "believe!!" to the people of New York,  and JMo had this look of "you have go to be fucking kidding me."

I actually expected this to go like Buffy/DS9, and making you believe that Emma was insane and she woke up with "clarity" making us wonder what is real and what is fake..either one would have ticked me off but it would have been nice to  see that vs. Fake EF

[Camera One]

Rumple wasn't even needed in the AU.  It was once again their pathetic need to repeat the same scenarios over and over again. 

I would have liked to see Sleeping Snow enter Emma's AU world, and be the one to encourage/convince her to let go of the might-have-been world.  That would have been poignant for both of them, to see how their lives could have gone.  

Edited December 5, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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I thought the AU Rumple was the person in the hood, because they made it seem like Regina might be making a mistake in letting him go free.

Logically, if Fake!Rumple found out he was living in a phony world, he would want to hitch ride to some place real. I thought we would be getting Imp Rumple in Storybrooke, but I guess not.

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Clearly, very little thought went into this. 

The writers were obviously doing the bare minimum. They did not think it through. So much of it was just not done correctly. The "worldbuilding" (if you can call it that) was completely arbitrary and did not take into account what an actual no-curse scenario would be like. They could have written any random AU for this. Emma could have grown up with her parents in Boston and lived a normal, LWM life. Or, instead of being the Savior, she goes down a dark path and becomes a bad person instead. There are infinite possibilities for Savior-less Emma.

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I would have liked to see Sleeping Snow enter Emma's AU world, and be the one to encourage/convince her to let go of the might-have-been world.  That would have been poignant for both of them, to see how their lives could have gone.  

Honestly, the AU should have been a dreamscape altogether. That would have connected so much better with the rest of 6A and given Snow something to do other than doing her best Belle impression. Plus, the weirdness of it would have been more understandable. (Henry being there would have made sense. Wimpy Princess Emma would have personified Emma's deep vulnerabilities.) I don't know why we need create this new pocket universe mechanic when the dreamscape was already established. Dreamscape!Belle didn't have her memories until Rumple and Gideon interfered. Couldn't Regina have just done the same thing?

Edited December 5, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Funniest line from this episode goes to...

HENRY (to Aladdin and Jasmine): We'll miss you.

[Dianthus]

Though it's hard to choose, I think the thing I hated most about this ep was Regina's line to Princess Emma about Snowing's blood being on her (Emma's) hands. I was yelling at the TV by that point, which my friend finds infinitely amusing. There's nothing like being laughed at when you're seriously pissed, regardless of why. 

As for stealing the Connor storyline from AtS, at least there's no ConCord equivalent so far. Talk about gross.

[Souris]

8 minutes ago, Dianthus said:

As for stealing the Connor storyline from AtS, at least there's no ConCord equivalent so far. Talk about gross.

Zelena/Gideon incoming? Or, you know, Regina could need a new love interest after Robin inevitably leaves....

Edited December 5, 2016 by Souris

[Dianthus]

LOL. Gelena? Zideon? Even that wouldn't be as bad, IMO. At least Zelena never cared for baby Gideon (i.e., changing his nappies and such).

[Souris]

13 minutes ago, Dianthus said:

LOL. Gelena? Zideon? Even that wouldn't be as bad, IMO. At least Zelena never cared for baby Gideon (i.e., changing his nappies and such).

Yeah, it's hard to top Connor/Cordy for squick factor. I hope never to see it topped.

[Camera One]

I'm just now reading some quotes from the Writers about this episode...

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This alternate reality, of sorts, is very different from what viewers know happened in the Enchanted Forest. “It is a world where there’s no villains,” Kitsis notes. “The big villain was defeated, there was no curse, and peace and joy got to flourish.”

Kitsis: I think it’s something as writers it’s something we’ve talked about, which was: What would’ve happened to Emma if she never became the Saviour? Who doesn’t say, “Oh, well, what if I did this in life?” or “What if I made this other choice?” The grass is always greener, and that’s what we’re going to explore. 

But the thing is... why would there be no villains?  There were tons of bad characters skulking around the Enchanted Forest.  They chose the most extreme route and made Emma into a completely submissive princess with zero backbone.  Supposedly her husband got killed, so it wouldn't have been all light and rainbows.  They didn't "explore" anything.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Camera One

[maryle]

And, that mess without any real and long term development for the character is Adam favorite episode!!

So, telling!!

 Nothing, is resolved and even the Robin return is tarnished by the fact is not the real Robin Regina fell.

And, despite the obvious fanservice SQ will never happen

[SiobhanJW]

Anyone else chuckle at Princess Emma humming "Someday my Prince Will Come"? 

[Camera One]

This show is so educational.

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Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson  53 minutes ago

@ButtercupOUAT @Epona_610 I can't speak for him. Perhaps he considers it a real place, but those were not real people. No murder I promise.

There can be a "real place" with non-real people, and killing non-real people is not murder.  I guess Adam and Jane have different ideas about whether a world wished into existence is "real" or not.  I'm so glad they clarify these things in the Writers' Room.

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Epona ‏@Epona_610  51m51 minutes ago
@JaneEspenson @ButtercupOUAT But would *Emma* really have been like that? That's what's killing me, Emma is weak if raised with love?

Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson  50m50 minutes ago
@Epona_610 @ButtercupOUAT Love isn't the issue. She was raised *without challenges*-- that's the issue.

 

So without The Evil Queen around, Emma would have "no challenges".  Because real life in a medieval society has no challenges.  Good to know.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Camera One

[PixiePaws1]

I can understand that the wish took all aspects of Emma's badass-ness ..every part of her that was brave and willing to put herself in danger for others. That was the intent. 

6x11 better be about her regaining it...despite the wish.

Hey..i was right about Regina getting to use the wishes because she and the EQ are the same person....it brings me no joy since it was used for SQ pandering ...!

[Souris]

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

This show is so educational.

There can be a "real place" with non-real people, and killing non-real people is not murder.  I guess Adam and Jane have different ideas about whether a world wished into existence is "real" or not.  I'm so glad they clarify these things in the Writers' Room.

Seems like even the writers aren't even sure what's happening! Adam says the wish realm is real, Jane says it's not. Is anybody at all surprised they're telling different stories and have different opinions on what it means? Utterly illustrative of the problems and lack of clarity in the show's writing. Clearly they think they're conveying things they're not and think the story makes sense when it doesn't. It's really one of the most scattered and downright bad writing rooms I've ever seen. I mean, what do they do in the writers' room if they can't even agree on what's happening in the writing???

We totally called that either Emma or Snow would end up being grateful to Regina in this ep!

[thuganomics85]

Evil Queen being on touchy feely with an uncomfortable Aladdin reminded of the whole Regina/Sheriff Graham stuff from season one, and made me shudder.  Yuck.  At least Aladdin's "Ew" made me laugh.  Probably is best moment yet, which is kind of sad.

So, basically, The Evil Queen gets ahold of the lamp, and wishes for Emma's wish to have never been the Savior to come true, and Emma gets to some kind of universe, where she never had a challenge, and becomes some kind of meek princess, with Henry has some badass, noble knight (Ha!), and Older Snow and Charming, complete with Ginnifer Goodwin and Josh Dallas sporting some of the cheapest "old age" make-up ever. Thankfully for her, Regina can uses EQ's wishes two since they're still one in the same, and sends herself there and plays up being the villain to try and get Emma back into Savior mode.  Doesn't work; even after she kills the Charmings; but it's only after she refuses to kill Henry, that Emma finally snaps out of it. They have a way back with a bean provided by Alt-Universe Rumple, only for the door to close because they run into.... Alt-Robin.  Yeah, all that happened.

Meanwhile, Charming also gets ahold of the lamp and wishes that Regina "gets what she deserves", which is apparently to get turn into a cobra by the mysterious hooded figure.  Which turns out to be..... Gideon, Rumple and Belle's son.  Who apparently gets kidnapped by the Black Fairy. So, Gideon is the guy in Emma's vision.  My head is hurting a lot right now.

I don't know if I was suppose to laugh as hard as I did at that painting of Neal.  Sorry, I love Michael Raymond-James, but him dressed as a knight is just hilarious and Neal ever being that noble is equally hilarious.  Oh, show!

Favorite parts where Leroy's over the top reactions to both Regina in the alternate universe, and the portal at the end.  It's like Lee Arenberg knows he will only have limited scenes, so gosh darnit, he will make the most of them!

I do hope this means the Black Fairy will be back, because Jaime Murray should be delightfully campy in the role.  Would it be too much to ask them to find something for Tony Curran also, so I can get my Stahma and Datak Tarr reunion from Defiance?

To end on a random: saw Disney's Moana over the weekend (it was awesome), and I already can't wait till season eight or so (assuming this puppy is still around), when they try their take on that and somehow fuck it up.  I still can't believe that they got the perfect actress to play Jasmine with Karen David, and completely tanked it.  That's impressive, Once Upon a Time.

[PixiePaws1]

When Henry was running up to Emma when she was talking to Queen Snow did he call her Aunt  Emma ????

[SiobhanJW]

1 hour ago, PixiePaws1 said:

When Henry was running up to Emma when she was talking to Queen Snow did he call her Aunt  Emma ????

No he was saying "Oh no! Oh no!" Cuz he missed her Party/blowing the candle on her cake. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[Worsel]

At the end when Gideon said "Hello Mother, Hello Father" did anyone else think the next line was "Here I am at Camp Granada"?

[Serena]

9 hours ago, OnceUponAJen said:

Oh, we all know how easy it is to find another bean.

I'm guessing that's how they meet Hook in the midseason premiere. He's the expert in finding random beans that aren't supposed to exist.

[Curio]

This entire episode was so completely unnecessary. Did no one in the writers' room point out how easy it would have been to have Regina wish to bring Emma back to Storybrooke? Regina wasted her wish by going to another realm instead? Really? A&E were willing to do whatever it took to make sure they got their Swan Queen finale, I guess. And to reintroduce Robin Hood.

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Jane Espenson: Love isn't the issue. She was raised *without challenges*-- that's the issue.

Right, because Emma having to deal with the death of her husband (I'm assuming Bae was her husband in this realm, otherwise, he wouldn't have had a painting hanging on the wall in the castle. And if he wasn't her husband, a princess having a child with a man she isn't married to surely would have caused a scandal or a challenge.) isn't a challenge. Raising a son without his father isn't a challenge. Every single person in the castle was friendly and didn't do anything bad. Nobody gossiped. Nobody pressured Emma to find a new prince to marry. There were no thieves in the Enchanted Forest that had to be arrested (except Robin exists), no difficult negotiations with other kingdoms' rulers, and no castle drama. Emma never broke a bone, got caught in bad weather, or was nervous about Henry's knighthood training. Emma never once questioned why her son was allowed to train to become a knight, but she was forced to be a sheltered princess. Emma never once questioned why there was a statue of Charming holding a sword and Snow holding a longbow, but she herself was never allowed to use weapons. Emma never asked Bae about his adventure to England or became curious about other realms. Emma never once questioned the sexism that her parents allowed in the kingdom. Bull. Shit.

There's so much I hate about this episode that I could probably write a novel about it. I've been waiting years for a "What if the Dark Curse was never cast?" scenario and couldn't wait to see Princess Emma on my screen, and this is what I get? This is the ultimate vision the showrunners/creators of the show had for Princess Emma? (A&E even mentioned in an interview that this question has been looming for years, so they've had plenty of time to think about how this would all play out.) Am I watching an entirely different show? This show isn't about Emma Swan anymore, it's entirely a vehicle for Regina Mills. And why did they rush Emma getting her memories back so quickly? This AU scenario where Princess Emma has to remember she's the Savior could have easily taken up an entire season, and they rushed it all within 15 minutes of screentime. And what is the point of it all if they kept having to repeat everything was so "fake"?

The writers stomped on the core qualities of some of my favorite characters just because they wanted to give Regina an episode where she got to be the one to realm-hop to save Emma. This episode was essentially "New York City Serenade" combined with the Season 3 finale, but they replaced Hook's role with Regina. (And I'm sure we'll never hear the end of it from the SQ crowd for the next three months.) It's such a lazy cop-out that Emma was a completely different person had Regina not cast the Dark Curse. Way to justify every bad thing Regina has ever done...and have Emma thank Regina on top of it! And then they fucking held hands right after they both agreed that the AU version of Emma sucked and Emma Version 2.0—in which Regina was directly responsible for Emma's terrible childhood—was totally worth it because, hey, Emma's sarcastic and bitter and jaded now and doesn't sing! So much better! Oh, and Graham is still dead and Regina is still keeping it a secret from Emma. But whatever, let's hold hands and laugh about Snow and Charming's deaths later.

While Emma certainly might have acted differently with a loving childhood, it shouldn't have taken away her core attributes. Emma was jaded by the foster care system and by people letting her down and she became prickly because of it, but even in the face of adversity, she was stubborn and naturally wanted to help people. That part of her personality should have remained the same. In the AU, something else would have brought about Emma's prickly and stubborn personality and her natural instinct to helps others, albeit not to the degree we see it in Storybrooke. Perhaps the death of Bae made her bitter about ever finding True Love again, so even though she still sings while she picks flowers, she can snap and say something mean if someone talks about finding a new prince to marry. Emma could have been naturally curious about magic, but since I could see Snow and Charming outlawing magic because of what Regina had done to them, there could have been a part of Emma that thought she was a bad person for being interested in the magical arts. Emma could have secretly been reading magical spell books in her free time and got scolded whenever a maid found one. That could have been a perfect segue for Storybrooke Regina to intervene and teach Princess Emma how to tap into Savior magic, but killing off Snow and Charming is much more A&E's style I guess.

Why couldn't Charming and Hook go with Regina to the AU? Each one of them could have tapped into something inside Princess Emma that eventually (over the course of multiple episodes, not one) made her realize she's a natural Savior and leader. Regina could have reminded Emma about her innate magic, Charming could have taught Emma how to be brave and the importance of family, and Hook could have taught her she has the capacity to love deeply again even after Bae's death. And why was Snow completely sidelined? Snow could have shown up in Emma's dreams because she's in a permanent sleep curse right now. This was the one chance Snow and Charming could have gotten to see Emma grow up the way they wanted her to, and A&E gave the important role to Regina instead. Why did A&E think it was a good idea to squish all of this into one episode where Regina had to commit murder to get Emma to do anything? And why the heck was Prince Henry allowed in any of this?

A&E want us to believe that at her core Emma isn't brave and isn't adventurous or curious about the world, but bravery and standing up for your family isn't something that needs to be groomed by having a bad childhood, it can be taught even though you're sheltered. The writers can't even use their stupid excuse that there were no villains to fight so Emma never had to learn to be courageous and badass, because they completely contradicted themselves by allowing Rumple to live in a cage this entire time and by making Henry a knight who is trained to protect people. But why would Henry need to learn how to protect people if there were no villains? Because it's a preventative measure. Snow and Charming are the stupidest rulers ever by believing that they never had to teach future generations how to defend themselves. So basically, after Snow and Charming defeated the Evil Queen, they decided to make a sexist realm where women weren't allowed to become knights and learn skills like swordfighting or negotiating with villains, but men were allowed. How else would Henry know how to defend Emma in front of the Evil Queen? Or is that bravery a natural instinct Henry was born with, and unlike her son, Emma doesn't have a natural bravery gene? 

And way to make fun of women who do act like Princess Emma, A&E. To have Emma say that version sucked is a slap in the face to girls who like to do less masculine things, like going on hikes to pick flowers, humming to themselves, and attempting to be diplomatic instead of violent. Why does that version of Emma suck so much? Why is diplomacy, negotiation, and handing over a key worse than running someone through with a sword? Honestly, I didn't even think this version of Emma was that bad, she was just a bit naive and scared and needed time to grow, but she could have learned to become braver over a series of episodes. (Where's Merida when you need her?) If we had actually seen an entire multiple-episode arc where some dashing character...hmm I don't know, maybe like Emma's True Love...actually took the time to bring Emma out of her sheltered princess shell and she slowly discovered the Savior inside her, that wouldn't have tarnished the core of who Emma is as a person. But the way the show presented it, it's like we're supposed to despise this version of Emma. You know who wouldn't agree that this version of Emma sucked? You know who would have said they liked every version of Emma, even this more feminine and sheltered version? Hook. Sigh...this entire episode would have played out so much differently if Hook was in the AU.

Speaking of Hook...WTF? Hook—whose core defining characteristic is that he fights a little too aggressively for the people that he loves, puts 110% effort into his plans, and has literally traveled to the ends of the world and through time to find Emma—was willing to sit around and let Regina save Emma? What the hell?! That's not the Captain Hook they've been developing for five years! That's some weird cardboard cut out who isn't allowed to do anything this season because, otherwise, it would ruin A&E's Swan Queen adventure episodes. (Seriously, what is with sidelining Hook for Emma/Regina lately? The Season 5 finale, the Mirror World, now the AU. Why is he, or Emma's parents or Zelena or Belle for that matter, never allowed to go with Emma and Regina on these trips?) Did Regina go by herself without telling Charming and Hook, and Hook just assumed that Regina being missing must have meant she went to find Emma? Because that's the only version that makes sense for his character. Where's the Hook who used a magic bean to travel to Storybrooke with Cora to defeat the Crocodile? Where's the Hook who traveled to NYC on a ship and found the Dark One in a random apartment building? Where's the Hook who turned his ship around and offered his services to save Henry in Neverland? Where's the Hook who literally outran a curse by sailing the Jolly Roger by himself, found an elusive magic bean without having to make a deal with Rumplestilskin, traded his ship, and traveled across realms to New York to find Emma? (All of which happened off screen, but Regina gets an entire freaking midseason finale about her quest to find Emma.) Where's the Hook who willingly went through a portal with Emma to another time period? Where's the Hook who was the only one rushing to find Emma at the Sorcerer's mansion and not traveling at a snail's pace while talking about adultery in the middle of the road? Where's the Hook who snapped out of his cowardly deckhand persona the Author gave him in order to save Emma and Henry? Where's the Hook who was the only person freaking out and doing rash things in order to find a way to get to Camelot? Where's the (Dark) Hook who literally cast a Dark Curse in order to get back to Storybrooke? Where's the Hook who turned on multiple Dark Ones and sacrificed himself for Emma? Where's the Hook who didn't give a bloody damn about being in the Underworld while Emma was in Storybrooke, he was going to do whatever it took to get that storybook page to her? Where's my favorite character and what have you done with him, A&E?????? This man casually sitting at the table with Jasmine saying, "It's okay, Regina will come back with Emma," is total writer manipulation and completely out of character in order to achieve a "wouldn't it be cool" plot line. GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

OH. And we didn't even get a humorous scene of AU Captain Hook meeting AU Princess Emma? They totally squandered that possibility by having Emma regain her memories so quickly? Time to go to IKEA. 

I haven't even gotten to the writers totally throwing out the rules of Wonderland and the Gideon/Belle/Rumple stuff, but that'll have to wait for another post. This one is already too long as it is.

On 12/5/2016 at 5:25 AM, Worsel said:

At the end when Gideon said "Hello Mother, Hello Father" did anyone else think the next line was "Here I am at Camp Granada"?

 

Ha! Yes, I definitely started humming the tune. Oh no! I'm humming a song! I clearly suck and need to stop being so girly!

Edited December 6, 2016 by Curio

[Randomosity]

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I did like the Captain Charming scenes in Storybrooke, though David is a hypocrite (as usual) when it comes to Hook. He was taunting him about not knowing Emma's secrets when he's keeping  a big fat secret from his freaking wife!

Ugh, seriously. That was my thought too.  Although, "We don't stand around talking about what happens when a bloody Genie appears!" Ha. I  shall choose to believe that there was an unspoken second line about how, if they ever manage to have any free time, they're carrying on with the, ahem ...activities, from that pre-zeppelin couch scene. :)

Overall, jeez. Totally my fault for being way too optimistic and thinking this episode would be some epic adventure a la Hook and Emma's time travel. Why couldn't Hook be in opposite world? Either as his current self gone there to get Emma back or some fake caricature? Either way, just something. As someone mentioned, time/age clearly didn't matter in opposite world, so why couldn't we have fresh-faced young Lieutenant Jones serving her Royal Highness Princess Emma in some capacity so we could see them being all adorable. Or hell, make him evil Captain Hook in fake world so that when he'd gone to rescue her, we got to see Emma shy and afraid of him in the woods instead of stupid Regina.

I can't even begin to make sense of the nonsense that was skipping the portal for fake Robin. Or how pathetic non-Savior Emma was. Count me among those who thinks she's absolutely better off having been tree-d as a newborn and sent away from Snowing.

Am I really supposed to care about Aladdin, Jasmine, and Agrabah? I have no idea what their deal is or why they're even in the season. Even stupid Blue Fairy suffering on her death bed or whatever had me more invested than Aladdin et al.

And WTF with Rumple/Belle/evil son. Like what in the actual f*ck is happening with that plot line.

I've always been a multi-tasker and am usually doing other things, like paperwork, while watching. It's definitely getting to the point where the tedious paperwork is more entertaining (and certainly more logical) than this show.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Between Emma's alternate reality and Gideon showing up, I felt like I was watching BtVS Normal Again crossed with the agonizing Conner storyline on Angel.

There was way too much stupid going on in this episode. 

One thing that annoyed me was how both David and EQ got around that whole "wishes always come with a price" by stating they KNEW that so they were going to wish for something for someone else. No. If wishes always come with a price (as magic is supposed to, although we never see the effects), then it shouldn't matter who they're for or whether your intention is positive or negative. 

But if it's true that magic doesn't have a price/negative effect if you wish for something for someone else, then it was beyond stupid that David didn't wish for Snow to wake up. He had two wishes left and he just handed the lamp over. Wasted wishes, David! He could have wished for something practical to help keep Storybrook safe, like taking away EQ's magic. Hell, he could have wished for Aladdin to tell him who the hooded figure in Emma's visions is.  

[LaChavalina]

Well, I think everyone has summed up my problems with this episode pretty well.

Except, I'd like to add-- What was up with the red appletinis? 

[Chaos Theory]

Hey everyone I agree with the crowed for once!!!!!   Not sure if that is a good thing or a sign of the apocalypse.   I do understand what the show was attempting with Princess Emma and saw her less as weak and more as never having to fight for anything.  She never had any fire.   She was all a product of true love and no darkness to balance it out.  This season was suppose to be about balance.  I just wish it was written better.  I did however like the scenes with Regina trying to get Princes Emma to be Real Emma and I kinda like the idea of Robin being back.  It's an interesting idea.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Primetimer]

Genie, I served with Anyanka. I knew Anyanka. Anyanka was a friend of mine. Genie, you're no Anyanka.

View the full article

[Anakerie]

I can just imagine how the conversation went in the writers room.

"Okay, what storyline did people absolutely loathe on another show?"

"Well, our studies show that most people thought the whole 'Connor' thing on 'Angel' sucked hairy donkey balls."

"Fantastic! Let's go with that!"

You know you're a lost cause when Evil Fairy McEvilface decides you're too corrupt/too stupid to raise her grandson and sues you for custody. Good job, Rumple and Belle! 

[kili]

What the frak did I just watch?

Emma doesn't bat an eye when her parents are killed, but she recovers her memories when Regina is threatened by her son? She abandon's her chance to get home because Regina gets her head turned by a dream character (while having easily identified them as dream characters the entire time)? I want to shake the TV like a snow globe and demand to know where my show went.

Meanwhile, Charming gets angst because he wanted to kill the Evil Queen for sending his daughter away and cursing his wife. Does that make him evil? No, it does not. It makes him sane. Dream Charming is more  rational than real Charming. I'm questioning my rational for watching that.

In other news, Belle equates her actions with Rumple and decides to work with him to save their son (who has become this evil dude that she will probably have to kill)? No thank you. Can we get a reset on that story. Why did Belle trust Blue? Blue is pretty much useless. The Three Stooges could have gotten that baby away from her.

And we aren't finished with this storyline? Argh! Never have I dreaded the start of the Winter Season before this one.

[Anakerie]

33 minutes ago, kili said:

What the frak did I just watch?

Emma doesn't bat an eye when her parents are killed, but she recovers her memories when Regina is threatened by her son? She abandon's her chance to get home because Regina gets her head turned by a dream character (while having easily identified them as dream characters the entire time)? I want to shake the TV like a snow globe and demand to know where my show went.

Meanwhile, Charming gets angst because he wanted to kill the Evil Queen for sending his daughter away and cursing his wife. Does that make him evil? No, it does not. It makes him sane. Dream Charming is more  rational than real Charming. I'm questioning my rational for watching that.

In other news, Belle equates her actions with Rumple and decides to work with him to save their son (who has become this evil dude that she will probably have to kill)? No thank you. Can we get a reset on that story. Why did Belle trust Blue? Blue is pretty much useless. The Three Stooges could have gotten that baby away from her.

And we aren't finished with this storyline? Argh! Never have I dreaded the start of the Winter Season before this one.

Thank you. I'm now picturing the Three Stooges poking Blue in the eyes and smacking her upside the head. 

[Mari]

13 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm pretty sure that David's wish did work.

David is responsible for wishing the hooded figure that kills Emma into the existence and the Black Fairy kidnapping Gideon to make it happen.  Cause that's how this show rolls.

I though about that, but decided there was too much of a time lapse.  Emma was wished away immediately.  The only immediate thing that happened to EQRegina was an extreme pantsuit.  

[jcin617]

David is just terrible at the whole wishing.   Here you go David, for next time:

Wish 1:  I wish the Evil Queen was imprisoned somewhere where she can never harm anyone or escape.
Wish 2:  I wish Emma and Regina, and not the Evil Queen version of Regina, were returned safely to Storybrooke from wherever you sent them.
Wish 3:  I wish the sleeping curse the Evil Queen placed on Snow White and me was removed.

Edited December 5, 2016 by jcin617

[tennisgurl]

...excuse me *bangs head against nearest hard surface for the next century*. 

What in the name of all that is holy was THAT? So, basically, Emma and the Charmings and everyone else should just get on their needs and thank Regina for ruining their lives, because without them, their lives would be awful, and Emma would be a spineless loser. Who cant connect with her magic for her parents who she loves, but can for her One True Love Regina! So, and I am really sorry but walk me through this one, without the evil queen, there is no conflict in the EF ever? Those bandits just wandered off, those ogres all went away, there was eternal perfect peace between all the other kingdoms? Her husband dying was no big deal? COME THE FUCK ON? And your telling me that Snow and Charming never trained their daughter, who would, I assume, be running their kingdom one day, to actually be the head of a nation? Maybe she wouldn't be trained to fight, but no diplomatic training, no learning how to run her country, no way to learn how to deal with enemy's? Nothing at all? And we are supposed to be all "OMG, Emma could be all lame and picking flowers and singing like a girlie girl! Gross!"? Because girlie things are just awful and The Worst? Hey, show, remember Brave? That movie she messed with a few seasons ago? The whole message in that movie was that "girlie" things arent bad, just different than manly things! Well, they did forget everything that Merida learned in her movie, not surprising they wouldn't forget the lessons too. This is awful. A boring mess of a season, and a boring mess of an episode. 

The only decent things here was some Hook/Charming bonding, and even that didn't work totally, because we know Charming is keeping stupid secrets while lecturing Hook, AND the show tries to call out Charming for being "dark", when all I see is a leader who is actually willing to be pragmatic and deal with a threat to his people. I`m not saying he should run around hurting people who break rules willy nilly, but The Evil Queen needs to be dealt with, she is an active threat, and their is no way to imprison her, damn it they have to do something! 

And, to make matters even worse, they turned Aladdin and Jasmine into bland losers! Those are not MY Aladdin and Jasmine! And, you know what I really wanted to see? One of my favorite Disney princes get felt up by a rapist who is making creepy comments about "master/genie" relationships! Yes, please remind us that Regina raped the last man she had under her power and should still be on a sex offender registry, please do that very thing! I need a shower. 

[iMonrey]

I won't even get into the idiocy of David's stupid, non-specific wish. Wish the Evil Queen away, dummy. Or why David could just pick up the damn lamp and claim control of it - why didn't Evil Queen just poof the lamp away from him like she did with the flower thingy a couple episodes ago? I just don't know why anyone would think if Emma hadn't become the savior she would have been some weak-willed, scared little pampered princess. She would have still had the same parents and they were bad-ass. 

I also don't understand why this show is so obsessed with pairing Emma and Regina on all the adventures at the expense of Emma and Hook. Why couldn't Hook have gone back to save her? That would have been so much more interesting and satisfying for the fans. 

[Curio]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

I also don't understand why this show is so obsessed with pairing Emma and Regina on all the adventures at the expense of Emma and Hook. Why couldn't Hook have gone back to save her? That would have been so much more interesting and satisfying for the fans. 

 

Because A&E don't care about what the fans want, they only care about what they want. And they want Emma and Regina adventures all the time.

[sharky]

I'm just going with my head canon that the genie had to create the AU world quickly to fulfill the EQ's wish, which is why I'm going to hand wave continuity errors. Neal was the same age as Emma? Hand wave. She was weak in the face of the EQ? Hand wave. It was Henry trying to kill the EQ that finally made her snap out of it? Hand wave. 

With that in my mind, I'm not too worried about not seeing Hook in the AU yet and really hope this means there's something else up with that. Hook isn't a pirate but a captain in Emma's Royal Navy? I'll hand wave continuity and the laws of the show all freaking day for that. And really, that's the only thing that will get me through this hiatus. 

[Daisy]

Ultimate things wrong with this episode. And/Or Questions. 

1: Did everyone get 3 wishes? or 1 Wish. 

it seemed that you got 3 wishes because EQ got 1, and Regina said she is also the owner and she made 1 (which left 1 EQ/Regina) wish. Rules of the Lamp is no wish can be undone. (therefore, if EQ's wish is "I wish that Emma Swan's wish comes true - ie: never the saviour") theoretically..

A: Emma gets whisked away to AU-EF, and we see what we saw but technically
B: Emma could have stayed in Storybrooke - but had the Saviour-ness erased. 

Emma's not the saviour because of the Dark Curse - Emma's the saviour (from everything I remember, and I just did a rewatch) - because she was the product of true love and her magic would be enough to defeat Dark Magic. Like I don't think Rumple did a bibbityboppitybo, and made Emma a Saviour. Especially if we're going with the thing that Saviours are legitmately born. Not made (see Aladdin). So Basically. The real "wish" was. Don't make Emma magical. Not, transport her to DarkCurseless Enchanted Forest. 

2:  David's Stupid Self. 
During the rewatch, I remembered when I started really hating David, and it wasn't in season 1 when i thought. it was Season 3, when he was the biggest hypocritical-judgemental person ever in life. And basically everything Today was "Well I'm perfect, you're not, and suck it." David is a liar. David ruined a unborn baby's life to protect his own (I am not even laying that on the Author), and David has flat out lied to his wife about dire things twice. (One that he was actually dying and now hunting his father's killer down). Take the beam out of your eye David, before you start attacking Hook. 

But the wish was stupid. If all wishes come with a price (which makes sense because all magic comes with a price) - depending on how many wishes you have (again, i'm assuming 3). Wish #1: I wish that we go back to before Regina ripped out the Evil Queen from her body.  that's where the problem originally started. We've clearly established you can create a new reality. Does it even matter if it's "real" or "Wishtopia?" go back in time and not rip out EQ. (Hell, go back a day earlier and save Robin's idiotic self).  That would have: No EQ, No Sleeping curse, no missing Emma, no dead people, no Jekyll and Hyde. none of it. 

#3: Where the Hell is My Hook
@Curio summed it up best. but this Hook is not my Hook and would have sat there idly by as the woman he loved literally poofed away. Hook would have come up with a plan. 

#4: The Stupidness of the Connor Plot on Once
This is why shows 100 percent should not have babies. They do it for plot points, and all that jazz - but once the baby is here on an action adventure show especially - you can't do anything. Prince DoOver. Prime example. Nothing. Pistachio. Nothing. (especially that Robin's dead and Regina doesn't care about Pistachio or Roland). And now BabyBlackFairySpawn. 

Where was Blue taking the baby so the Black Fairy would know about it? How did the Black Fairy know it was Rumpdumb's baby? Did she just want to steal the baby? Why wasn't the Black Fairy turned into a Nun?  How did Gideon know Rumpdumb are his parents? Why is he uber-duber-evil and now want to kill Emma? This isn't going to make me want to watch - it makes me go REALLY?! . Because I know the answers. "You gave me away, you let me be kidnapped, I must snuff out the light, only the Black Fairy liked me." It's. Stupid. 

#5: Belle + Rumple, and just stop. 
I've been saying this for a while. Belle - doesn't like being held out of the loop. She doesn't like being lied to - but I have yet to see - and this episode showed it - Belle's issue isn't that Rumple is evil, Belle's issue is that she's not involved in everything. It seriously reminds me of Phoebe on Charmed, where Phoebe finds out Cole is evil, tries to rehab him, it works for a while, Cole turns evil again, and flat out tells Phoebe this is who i am, deal with it or leave me alone - and Phoebe chooses it and then still whines how Cole ruined her life. I think this is different because Belle is all "I want to be a hero!" but she's clearly seduced (at some level) by Rumple's evilness. "What are we doing to each othah." she asked and it basically looked (to me). If you want Belle to hate Rumple. have her hate him and do nothing with him. at all. like. let it go and move on. if you want belle to be with rumple, have her accept the fact that it's Power first, and then everything else second, and be his Bonnie to his Clyde. that's where we're at now. 

Which is why i do not give a crap about the two of them

Princess Emma.. really show? not even Baby Snow was that milquetoast. She could have been tougher without the massive blocks on her shoulders.

Prince Henry. can't we DoucheFire him through a portal already?

Like honestly, I'll be back in March - but it's to bitch with you guys.  

[Souris]

Never forget that this was Adam's favorite ep of the season.

[YaddaYadda]

This episode was absolute trash. From everyone just standing around to Pod!Emma.

[zumpie]

I'm just going with my head canon that the genie had to create the AU world quickly to fulfill the EQ's wish, which is why I'm going to hand wave continuity errors. Neal was the same age as Emma? Hand wave. She was weak in the face of the EQ? Hand wave. It was Henry trying to kill the EQ that finally made her snap out of it? Hand wave. 

With that in my mind, I'm not too worried about not seeing Hook in the AU yet and really hope this means there's something else up with that. Hook isn't a pirate but a captain in Emma's Royal Navy? I'll hand wave continuity and the laws of the show all freaking day for that. And really, that's the only thing that will get me through this hiatus. 

It's also clearly an EQish fantasy world: Emma is submissive and completely neutralized (as well as emotionally and mentally about 14 years old), Henry (and RH) is much more badass, Snowing is oldd.....Person remains a dead, plot contrivance sperm donor and only there so Henry (who the EQ does love) would happen.

"Why would he still be dead in her wish? Guess they couldn't get Michael Raymond-James back"

A) see above B) MRJ's recent "body of work" has consisted of summer stock and a guest spot (doing his signature/cliched "douche canoe with a heart of something slightly less douchey while looking like a hobo") on a Fox (CW?) show. "Couldn't" isn't the issue here, "don't want to deal with his prima donna temper tantruming" is more likely. Cuz clearly, the lack of lost love does continue.....

[kili]

I don't understand why Rumple is still in that prison. The dude would still have his scroll of Emma's to use to melt the bars. Did he know that his son had returned to EF and married Snow White's daughter? How did he die? Are we to believe that Neal was always fated to have a relationship with Emma and then die? How did they meet? Were they both trying to steal the same horse?

Did the Charmings just leave Rumple to rot in that cage with no food or water? They should have at least given him a pet. 30 years of solitary confinement can't be good for you.

I did kind of like Grumpy's response when the portal opened before him. He knows that means nothing good. Interestingly, the Evil Queen never expected her curse to last. Can't she just slither out of that little wrist thing? She's a snake.

[Curio]

I don't know which is worse: A&E ruining Emma's core attributes and sending the message that femininity sucks, Hook being forced to twiddle his thumbs and not do anything productive about his missing True Love, or that my favorite Pink Floyd song is forever tarnished.

[zumpie]

I don't understand why Rumple is still in that prison. The dude would still have his scroll of Emma's to use to melt the bars. Did he know that his son had returned to EF and married Snow White's daughter? How did he die? Are we to believe that Neal was always fated to have a relationship with Emma and then die? How did they meet? Were they both trying to steal the same horse?

Did the Charmings just leave Rumple to rot in that cage with no food or water? They should have at least given him a pet. 30 years of solitary confinement can't be good for you.

I did kind of like Grumpy's response when the portal opened before him. He knows that means nothing good. Interestingly, the Evil Queen never expected her curse to last. Can't she just slither out of that little wrist thing? She's a snake.

It's a possible, completely fake world and everyone there (except Emma, who was the real one transported there) was just a fake version.....AND it was really a version of the EQ's wish making (cause there's no other way for Bagel to have been there, let alone Kwumple still imprisoned).

Scaly was imprisoned (and batcrap crazee) because it made him less of a potential challenge to the EQ, EVER....and minimized his desirability for her (it's precisely why his nuttery was dialed up to eleventy-catrillion). Bagel existed (and was dead, cause we all know the low opinion Regina has always held of him) exclusively to have been Henry's sperm donor (because EQ loves Henry). Essentially, this was EQ's fake wish realm to keep Emma (and everyone else) on ice.

[RadioGirl27]

What the hell I just saw? To say this was bad is being generous, it was terrible. Everyone was acting OOC so Regina could be the hero. And she wasn't even a good one.

Really, I have nothing positive to say about the episode other than Jennifer looked really pretty in her white dress. But the rest was crap, both in the AU and in Storybrooke.

Edited December 5, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[PixiePaws1]

Just read Adam Grosswirth's recap/review....did I watch the same ep???? 10/13????  Not in my universe .... 

 I have never hated Adam and Eddie more than I did watching Killian doing a complete 180 on his true self and Emma thanking Regina.

'Regina will bring Emma home'...!!!! Since when does Killian have that much faith in her?! He has always been the one to side eye her dubious unearned redemption. No way is he EVER going to leave saving his Swan to that woman.... In the background all I could hear was A&E singing 'Must keep SQers happy' on an endless loop, while they butcher the character of Emma's True Love. Even in the Author AU Killian showed more fight for a woman he just met that what they tried to sell us last night.

Watching Emma thanking Regina after she killed her parents....so much vomit....but hey it is consistent.  Emma just groveled all over Regina after watching her...the REAL unsplit Regina...smirk triumphantly at burning Snow alive in 4b. Snow survived but Regina didn't know that...

Colin and JMo really showed their acting chops last night...hiding their disgust at what was being done to their characters.

Can we just send evil Gideon after A&E?

[sharky]

Zumpie -- I like your theory that this was the EQ version of an AU. Helps with the hand waving I'm doing