S01.E04: Fall

[starri]

God, the Emily parts of "Fall' almost, ALMOST made it worth it.  If this had been two 90 minute parts and cut out the townie stuff, I probably could have really liked it.

I said in the Unpopular Opinions thread that I watched this show for Lorelai and Emily.  And the scene with Lorelai having to ask for money was...circle of life, you know.

[ghoulina]

12 minutes ago, starri said:

I said in the Unpopular Opinions thread that I watched this show for Lorelai and Emily.  And the scene with Lorelai having to ask for money was...circle of life, you know.

The dialogue was almost exactly the same. "You need money....(Lorelei talking)....you need money...(Lorelei talking)....YOU. NEED. MONEY." I really enjoyed that. 

It's true that the more things change, the more they stay the same. I liked seeing some of the things that did come full circle. But, at the same time, people DO change. I'm certainly not the same person I was 10 years ago. Neither is my husband. I think it's important, in life, to be self aware and always strive to learn more, know more, do more, BE more. It just made me sad to see how little Rory, especially, had progressed. Look at Emily. She's a 60/70 something widow and she's able to reinvent herself and make a nice, new life. Take a lesson, Rory!

[starri]

Emily just seemed so happy.  She reminded me of Ruth in the last episode of Six Feet Under.  I know she loved Richard and their life together, but that was THEIRS, and now she gets to figure out who she is on her own.  That's a spin-off I would watch.

Rory annoyed me, but I guess on the whole I can't give her too much grief, because I was a little aimless until I was about that age too.  I can give her crap about treating her non-entity boyfriend so poorly.  And I'm not exactly sure motherhood is going to be the thing that gets her back on track.

[backhometome]

Rory is still so freaking selfish. She is even worse than the time she slept with a married Dean. Now she has a boyfriend she forgets and hooks up with a guy with a fiance and gets upset when said fiance moves in with him. She regressed. She whines and throws a pity party when things dont go her way. 

As much as the Logan thing bugged me I dont like the implication that he is Christopher and Jess is the Luke. They are all different people and the situation is not the same at all. From Rory's scene with her dad I take she is not going to tell Logan about the baby and will do it on her own. 

Jess/Luke scenes and Emily were the highlights of the revival. 

[LeafontheWind]

What I don't get about Rory's "what happens in Vegas" relationship is why Logan is marrying someone he doesn't seem to care about. I don't like the idea of either one of them cheating, but Logan is engaged and has shown no sign of even considering breaking off that engagement. Even if his original proposal and rejection never happened in ASP's canon, it makes no sense for him to be marrying another woman if he still loves Rory. 

I never much liked Logan, though he did grow on me in season 7, but this was some serious character regression. If he is only marrying this other woman because his father wants him to use her to grow the business empire, then why bother hiding his affair with Rory at all? Does his fiancé care about him, or is this a business arrangement for her as well? I guess we will never know because she didn't even warrant any real screen time. I couldn't enjoy any parts of this relationship because the whole thing rubbed me the wrong way. Logan turned into an almost exact copy of his father, which makes no sense to me because even when he was first introduced while ASP ran the show, he clearly stated that he did not want to become that kind of man. Why the change?

I think this is the most frustrating part for me. I actually enjoyed a lot of the rest of the story, especially the parts with Emily. I was never that much of a L/L fan, but I found a lot of their scenes endearing and liked where they ended up too. But almost everything about Rory's story was disappointing to me. Rory used to be the character I related to the most (I am just a two years younger than the character, so I felt almost like I was watching my high school life play out on tv when this show originally aired), but now I feel completely disconnected from her. I know a show will never make every fan happy, but I don't even recognize this character. I posted in the all episodes thread that something felt like it was missing, and it just clicked for me what that something was. It feels like meeting up with an old friend only to realize that you never really knew that person at all.

This was long and rambly. I am sorry for that. I am way more attached to a fictional character than I should be. There were some really great moments in this revival, but, for me, they were overshadowed by the less impressive moments.

[JAYJAY1979]

I liked season 7, and I had wished ASP had been banned from this revival.  I did like Sookie coming back....and am glad Rory isnt with anyone....she still has growing up to do.

Emily was the MVP of this revival.

[Eyes High]

33 minutes ago, backhometome said:

As much as the Logan thing bugged me I dont like the implication that he is Christopher and Jess is the Luke. They are all different people and the situation is not the same at all.

Maybe, but Logan is like Christopher in that he comes from a wealthy background, he is an addictive but ultimately toxic presence (note Lorelai in Summer telling Rory she can't quit Logan or somesuch), and he's an all-around garbage human being.

I don't get the complaints I've seen about how Logan was written to be completely "out of character" in the revival; to me, that's nonsense revisionism and/or S7-inspired amnesia. ASP-penned Logan has always been worthless: garbage friends, garbage treatment of women (dismissing the bridesmaids he slept with as being brainless "bimbos"), garbage morals, a garbage influence on Rory, the works. The only worthwhile Logan was the mature, healthy Season 7 Logan (and even he had moments of regression), and ASP went to some pains to remind us that that Logan was the one who was out of character, not Revival Logan, who is the same useless, smarmy, Christopher-level douchebag he's ever been.

The parallels between Rory/Logan/Jess in Season 6--Logan enables Rory's Yale bullshit, Jess inspires Rory to go back to school and get her shit together--and Rory/Logan/Jess in the revival--Logan enables Rory's cheating bullshit and is happy to have Rory as his mistress, Jess inspires Rory to write a book--are very striking and, I suspect, entirely deliberate. Lane's disgust at Logan also echoed Paris chewing Logan out in Season 6. Jess is the good influence, Logan the toxic influence that must be overcome. Logan, like Christopher to Lorelai, is the addictive asshole whom Rory needs to kick to the curb once and for all in order to be happy in love. Just as in Season 6, Revival Jess brings out the best in Rory, while Revival Logan brings out the worst.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Eyes High

[tankgirl73]

Yes, thank you Eyes High! This whole new series confirmed for me: Logan is an ass. Even with how he grew on me in season 7 (even more so in the massive re-watch I finished last week), at the end when he gives up and abandons her because she didn't want to move away and get married on HIS whim -- he was an ass. I believe that he does love Rory, and that he sincerely tried to be a good man for her, but he just didn't have the moral direction for it. He was too broken, too shady, too immature. He improved himself a lot, but couldn't get over the fact that he is, at heart, an ass. An ass that loves Rory, an ass nonetheless.

I actually did not cotton on to the "Logan is Rory's Christopher" idea. Never did, even in the original episodes. Now I'm like, duh.

[backhometome]

When I say I dont think Logan is like Christopher I mean I dont think he would be an absent dad like him. Also it would be really crappy if she doesn't even tell him about the baby.

Im not for Rory/Logan (not that I ever was really) after  the cheating mess but I dont think the Logan/Chris parallel works. 

[BellyLaughter]

It's so nice, even cathartic, to be able to officially say out loud that Logan is Rory's Christopher and he is taking that role to all new levels of self centred douchery that quite frankly would leave even Christopher breathless!  

Such a shame a new life is being born of it....

It also breaks my heart to watch Rory be such an enabler of this after watching her mother do it her whole life and the damage it brought....

Edited November 25, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[LeafontheWind]

Just now, backhometome said:

Im not for Rory/Logan (not that I ever was really) after  the cheating mess but I dont think the Logan/Chris parallel works. 

I agree, I see some similarities between Logan and Chris (rich, handsome, easy to fall for), but Logan is too strong a personality. Chris is definitely the weaker one in his relationship with Lorelai, that's why he didn't push to have more influence in Rory's life. He said so himself in this episode, Lorelai set the tone and he didn't try to push back. Not to say he is blameless for his lack of relationship with his daughter, he definitely should have tried to be there for her, even if it meant going against what Lorelai wanted.

If anyone is a "force of nature" in the Rory/Logan pairing, it is Logan. I see just as many parallels between the characters of Lorelai and Logan-  they both grew up with money and wanted to rebel against the path set out for them by their parents. Much like Christopher, Rory let her partner set the tone in their relationship and always seemed to be a much more passive participant.

[msani19]

There were things that just weren’t working for me in the series, especially the part with Rory. I can buy into the career struggle; goodness knows a lot of people struggle there. For her, she has somehow mistaken having opportunities put in her lap without her trying very hard, with dedication and hard work. She was hard-working and more focused in seasons 1-2, maybe 3, but then she had to work less and less and somehow ended up getting more and more. She’s the epitome of the “everyone gets a trophy” to me. Now the real world doesn’t want to just hand her everything, so she freaks out. Grow the hell up Rory! The Rory/Logan storyline was appalling. It was horrible when she slept with a married Dean. If I want to give any benefit of the doubt, I’ll say she was really young. She is not young enough to not know that what she’s doing is terrible. Then she’s pregnant? She is actually LESS prepared to raise a child at age 32,  than her mother was at 16. Logan was in this far too much given. He had grown/changed in S7 yet this had him a worse d-bag than ever. But in my opinion, the S7 Logan was not ASP's Logan and this might just be the version of Logan that she envisions.

I did like Lorelai and Luke getting married. I don’t need to see it, knowing they did it AND remembered to include Rory worked for me.

I think overall trying to revisit almost everyone we ever saw in 7 seasons was part of what made this off to me. Are we going to get another 4-part mini in the future? I did feel that way and that kinda irritated me.

Seriously, those were the magical four words she’s been going on about all these years? Didn’t many people guess that? I did mostly enjoy having a break and falling back into the world of Stars Hollow and the Gilmore Girls.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

God, the Gilmore's wasted so much money on Rory's education.

[zxy556575]

I was just a casual viewer of the original series and wasn't necessarily looking for touchstones that may have meant something to truer fans, but was still disappointed. Overall I think 6 hours was way too long and was to blame for most of the ridiculous excesses and musical meanderings.

The only time I teared up a little was the scene with Sookie, because I felt the true affection between her and Lorelai.

When did Rande Gerber become the standard bearer for good looking men? Goodness.

I'll stick up for Hey Nineteen having an okay dance beat. Of course it's not at all a "good" wedding song lyrically.

Jess kind of got short shrift. I prefer to think of him not so much pining for Rory as having a lot of residual fondness for his first true love. He knows she's struggling and wants to help if he can. (That's my biased interpretation and I'm sticking to it.)

So I guess we're to imagine that Michel stays and is professionally content with the new annex? What he should focus some attention on is remodeling the Dragonfly, because that overstuffed shabby chic look is TIRED.

I hated the storyline of Michel being emotionally browbeaten into adopting even though he doesn't want a child.

Edited November 26, 2016 by lordonia

[Miss Slay]

Well, some things never change. I still prefer ASP episodes to Daniel Palladio episodes.

What a moving episode. Although the whole thing is melancholy.  I just loved seeing Dean. They had lovely chemistry- the type you have when you catch up with an old friend.

Loved the final four words. I hope Logan is the daddy. But Jess may be her Luke.

[Eyes High]

Biggest laugh of the revival for me came from 1x04:

Michel (looking at candidate's resume): Your name is...ah, "Molly." [sharply and accusingly] Why?

The only tears for me came from 1x04 as well, with Lorelai's anecdote about Richard. 

ETA: Oh my God...when Emily is getting real with the DAR wannabe trophy wife, she talks about throwing out the last trophy wife's application, a woman by the name of "Pamie." OH MY GOD.

(For those who don't know, "Pamie" is the screen name of a writer who used to recap Gilmore Girls for Television Without Pity.)

Edited November 25, 2016 by Eyes High

[bettername2come]

Dean being stable and married with children? Yay! I was a Dean girl long before I was a Sam girl. And I thought it was cute that his wife's name was Jenny since his real life wife is Genevieve.

I enjoyed seeing the Life and Death Brigade again more than I would have thought. I really thought that was going to be just a trippy dream sequence for the first half. They're crazy spoiled brats, but they genuinely care about Rory and Finn and Colin have nice banter. Genuinely forgot there was a third guy.

Loved the Richard story. Loved the final sequence with the wedding. Loved Sookie complaining about the celebrities in her kitchen. And Kirk doing something right. And if Rory ends up with a guy from the series, Jess is definitely my pick. And I love that seeing Milo Ventimiglia as Jess again. And even though Jess has grown up and changed, he still felt like Jess, even though I saw him as Jack Pearson three days ago, he in no way reminds me of his other character.

The last four words seem appropriate, if cliche. Although it makes me like her storyline with Logan even less than I did. I love Matt Czuchry, and I wish Logan would get his shit together so I could like the character, but alas, it is not meant to be. The scene with Christopher makes so much more sense in hindsight. If there's another season I would watch it. In terms of sequel series, this was better than Fuller House and Girl Meets World, if not quite up to Veronica Mars movie levels. Any complaints I have at least feel like they're in character.

[maraleia]

What I loved was Emily keeping the same maid for over a year and really appreciating her enough to welcome the maid's entire family into her home and move all of them to her new house. That's real character growth in and of itself. Basically everything with Emily was great, most of the Lorelai story was good and none of the Rory stuff was remotely satisfying.

I wish they would've had a throwaway line in there about how she fared as one of the reporters covering Obama's 2008 campaign and the intervening years to let us know how she got where she was when the Winter episode began. Also, ASP should've been required to watch S7 as a part of her contract negotiations with Netflix.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, LeafontheWind said:

What I don't get about Rory's "what happens in Vegas" relationship is why Logan is marrying someone he doesn't seem to care about. I don't like the idea of either one of them cheating, but Logan is engaged and has shown no sign of even considering breaking off that engagement. Even if his original proposal and rejection never happened in ASP's canon, it makes no sense for him to be marrying another woman if he still loves Rory. 

It made perfect sense, to me. Logan is a Huntzerburger. He has obligations. Wasn't he back working for the family? I think it makes perfect sense that he'd be marrying some well-bred heiress for appearances sake, but seeing someone he actually cares about on the side. It does seem a bit out of character for Rory, though. At least, the way *I* saw Rory. I know she slept with married Dean, but she was SO much younger and more inexperienced then. I felt likely ultimately she knew that was a mistake and wouldn't do the same kind of thing again. 

 

57 minutes ago, backhometome said:

When I say I dont think Logan is like Christopher I mean I dont think he would be an absent dad like him. Also it would be really crappy if she doesn't even tell him about the baby.

I felt like, in retrospect, Rory was talking to her father to basically get permission to raise her baby alone. I think she has this romantic, martyr notion of it - because of the relationship she and her mother share. I think she was pleased that Chris said it turned out the way it was supposed to, so she could feel validated in wanting to raise HER baby alone. But yea, I don't know about Logan. On the one hand, he had a shitty father and I don't see him wanting to be a shitty dad. But, on the other hand, if he's married, I can see him wanting to keep the baby very quiet. 

Ugh, I hate even speculating about it because it just feels like such a cheesy, cheap storyline. 

27 minutes ago, lordonia said:

I hated the storyline of Michel being emotionally browbeaten into adopting even though he doesn't want a child.

Yea. Is that the ultimate end goal for everyone? I mean, I'm a mother and I think being a parent is great. It was certainly one of MY goals in life. But not everyone wants kids and those that don't certainly shouldn't feel forced/shamed into it. Michel has ALWAYS loathed children. Even when he tried to be good with them, he did things like rolling Sookie's "Truman" under the bed! Michel is the last person that should be having children. Get another pair or pugs. 

 

10 minutes ago, maraleia said:

What I loved was Emily keeping the same maid for over a year and really appreciating her enough to welcome the maid's entire family into her home and move all of them to her new house. That's real character growth in and of itself. Basically everything with Emily was great

I know, I loved that whole storyline. I think Emily just really didn't want to be alone, and she realized she'd better soften herself and become more welcoming. Hell, she had the entire extended family living there it seemed! She loved everything Bertie did. It was great. 

[Clare]

I liked this revival a lot.  I was always more invested in Lorelai than Rory so her storyline really made me happy.  I liked her growth with Emily and her and Luke finally getting their wedding.  I had always heard that LG and SP had a bumpy relationship but it really felt like they must have been in a better place then the last few seasons on the show.  Almost all the Luke and Lorelai scenes were great and their chemistry was really evident. 

Emily at the museum was the greatest.  She looked so happy and proud of herself.  So awesome.

I get they are going for a comparison of Christopher/Logan but it really doesn't work.  Logan is a 33? year old man who lives on his own, has his own money,  has been shown to have more of a backbone and as being more grounded than Christopher ever did.   Rory is also not Lorelai.  To me they played it like Rory was in love with Logan and was just waiting for him to leave his fiancé and pick her.  I also got the impression that Logan was also waiting for her to ask.  They played that like they were both 100% in love with each other and were both just nervous to take the plunge.  Maybe the ending would have worked a little more if they had dialed back the love.

As much as I liked it and it was fun to go back to this story I hope they don't make more.  I want them to leave it right there.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Clare

[tankgirl73]

Logan doesn't have to be exactly like Christopher in order for him to be Rory's Christopher. It's a parallel, not a duplicate. It just means he's the immature guy who will always love her even when he's with other women, and that she keeps going back to even though it's really not healthy or destined to even go anywhere. And then becomes the absent father to her child. Obviously there are huge differences beyond that. But the parallel is there.

I rewatched Fall again knowing the ending -- not quite 'watching backwards' but the same basic effect. It does make more sense. And although I was one of the few who was surprised by the ending, I realized on rewatch that the first time through, when Rory was on the phone and said "3 o'clock, fine", I immediately thought "oh, doctor's appointment, she's pregnant". But then the next scene was with her dad so I just presumed she was actually making the appointment with her dad and forgot about the pregnancy idea. Now, of course, I think she WAS seeing the doctor, and it's after THAT that she went to see her dad, and boy does that scene make more sense in hindsight. Then bumping into Dean... how are you he asks... "oh, things are changing for me, I'm still figuring it out", we think she means her career, which she does, but also much more than that!

Loved Luke's 'don't leave me' rant even more the second time. Epic. "You need [closet] space, I NEED YOU!"

[Nidratime]

I can't imagine Lorelai, Emily, or Luke allowing Rory to get away with not telling the father of her baby that he's going to be a father. That is beneath contempt. Logan's not an abusive man, a criminal, or a pedophile. He deserves to know that he's going to have a child in this world and he deserves to know it before he makes any other monumental decisions. Ugh. Christopher knew he was going to be a father and he had a lot less on the ball than Logan.

[tankgirl73]

Especially Luke. I do expect they'd make that opinion known. I hope she does tell him, if not right away. I think her intention is that she doesn't want him involved -- she wouldn't want him to leave his fiancee and be with her only because of the baby, if he wasn't already going to be with her without the baby. That rarely works out well. She wants to raise the baby without him THERE... but that doesn't mean he won't be involved in SOME way. Definitely after Luke's experience with Anna and April, and the fact that Rory knows (and likes) April, there's no way she could reasonably go down the path of not telling him at ALL.

[HeySandyStrange]

Well, that happened. I'm a fairly pissed they left it on a cliff-hanger, since I was highly disappointed in Rory's storyline and all but a few parts of the revival in general. Now, I feel they are basically taunting us fans so that a second season is more likely to happen. Maybe that is why Rory's story was so meandering and unresolved? To set her up to take over the main spot for another season, since Alexis Bledel is the cast member that is most available these days? I don't feel like overall they've earned that. A lot of the revival felt like a mess.

As a former semi-Rory/Logan shipper I'm very dissatisfied with the general course of their relationship (cheating) and was rolling my eyes during the breakup. Sorry, they killed any romantic feels I had for them as a couple and a kiss isn't fooling me. As a disliker of Jess and Rory/Jess, I'm glad she's nowhere near ending up with him. He deserves someone who isn't a total mess.

Quote

Dean being stable and married with children? Yay! I was a Dean girl long before I was a Sam girl. And I thought it was cute that his wife's name was Jenny since his real life wife is Genevieve.

As one of the 10 or 20 people who actually likes Dean, I'm glad he ended up where he wanted to be from the beginning: a happy family man with a happy family. Looking damn yummy, for that matter. Also that he got the hell out of Star's Hollow, after that adultery/busted marriage mess.

Emily and Kelly Bishop were awesome. For the little time she's had in the revival, her growth has been great. In fact, Emily is the only one who seemed to experience any real growth, except a little for Lorelai. If they must do a second season, I'd watch Emily take in pregnant Rory and tell her what for. Make that happen and I'll even be okay with where I see Rory's book going, being produced by Doyle for an CW type drama.

They could've ended on Lorelai and Luke's wedding, which was lovely and felt like the real send off for the GG world. Glad to see Sookie, though I wish she could've been included in the wedding scene.

Edited November 26, 2016 by HeySandyStrange

[Nidratime]

3 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

Especially Luke. I do expect they'd make that opinion known. I hope she does tell him, if not right away. I think her intention is that she doesn't want him involved -- she wouldn't want him to leave his fiancee and be with her only because of the baby, if he wasn't already going to be with her without the baby. That rarely works out well. She wants to raise the baby without him THERE... but that doesn't mean he won't be involved in SOME way. Definitely after Luke's experience with Anna and April, and the fact that Rory knows (and likes) April, there's no way she could reasonably go down the path of not telling him at ALL.

But, the difference is Logan *wanted* to be married to Rory ten years ago, before there was any baby in the picture and, even after all this time, they're still involved with each other in very intimate ways. Something tells me this proposed marriage is not Logan's first choice; it's the choice he made after Rory turned him down and appeared to not want to get married to him despite crawling back to him time and time again. To me both Paul and Odette are false obstacles.

[ghoulina]

13 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

Loved Luke's 'don't leave me' rant even more the second time. Epic. "You need [closet] space, I NEED YOU!"

When Luke actually verbalized that he needed her, tears came to my eyes. I've always loved Luke, but he isn't the best at expressing emotion. That entire rant was perfection for me. 

[msani19]

Quote

Logan doesn't have to be exactly like Christopher in order for him to be Rory's Christopher. It's a parallel, not a duplicate. It just means he's the immature guy who will always love her even when he's with other women, and that she keeps going back to even though it's really not healthy or destined to even go anywhere. And then becomes the absent father to her child. Obviously there are huge differences beyond that. But the parallel is there.

1

This is an interesting take that I hadn't considered. I despise Christopher, so I have no rational reactions to him whenever he appears. Thinking about Rory playing out the immature/unavailable man scenario versus a Christopher = Logan/ Lorelai = Rory makes it more nuanced. Let's hope that's what ASP was going for, although nuance is not something she appears to be familiar with! That scenario definitely does set this up for further episodes, though. 

Emily was the Queen in all episodes. All hail Queen Emily!

It's amazing how my view of the show and the characters has evolved as I've gotten older and that could be why I have this enduring love for it. Emily made me crazy when I first watched it, now I can see more of her viewpoint. Lorelai was hilarious and cool to me, now not so much. Although I still like her, she has just lost the charm I initially saw. I cracked up in the scene with Peter Krause (her actual boyfriend, lol) when she didn't have her permit, and she did this "I'm adorable and pretty and you should do what I want" move, and he was having none of it. Sorry Lorelai, not everyone is in love with you. I actually chuckled that the park rangers were played by her Parenthood co-stars, one who played her boyfriend/fiance, the other her brother.

Rory, I found interesting in the pre-Yale seasons.  I was a "too smart" for my own good girl, who read a lot, knew the answers to the questions, opinionated as heck, and wasn't trying to dumb myself down for the boys. Then she became blah-Rory and I have not gotten my good opinion of her back as she has continued to be a horrible person. 

[MarshallB6]

3 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

 

I liked season 7, and I had wished ASP had been banned from this revival.  I did like Sookie coming back....and am glad Rory isnt with anyone....she still has growing up to do.

Emily was the MVP of this revival.

 

This, a thousand times this! 

Agreed, Rory has a lot of growing up to do. For all her, "I'm not backs," and looking her nose down on the other 30-somethings who had returned home, she has squandered the opportunities that prep school and Yale should have afforded her. While the wedding scene was absolutely delightful, romantic, and perfect for Luke & Lorelei, IMO, the best storyline of all four arcs was Emily coming to terms with Richard's death and her future. 

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I can't imagine Lorelai, Emily, or Luke allowing Rory to get away with not telling the father of her baby that he's going to be a father. That is beneath contempt. Logan's not an abusive man, a criminal, or a pedophile. He deserves to know that he's going to have a child in this world and he deserves to know it before he makes any other monumental decisions. Ugh. Christopher knew he was going to be a father and he had a lot less on the ball than Logan.

I think Rory was looking for permission from Christopher to raise the child on her own, as ghoulina said. I think she was just looking for further confirmation that that choice, the choice she had already made, was the right one.

We got it drilled into our heads in the revival that Lorelai is a force of nature who does what she wants (according to Emily in Winter) and that Rory is just like her, according to Christopher, in that an "uncontrollable" "force of nature" in his words who does what she wants. Accordingly, if she's already made up her mind that she's going to raise the baby alone as the Rory/Christopher scene suggests in hindsight, and if Logan=Christopher in this equation, that suggests that even assuming Rory will tell Logan about the pregnancy, there's absolutely nothing Logan can do or will do to stop her from raising his baby by herself.

[MarshallB6]

4 hours ago, Winter Rose said:

Exactly what I feared would happen, did happen... be careful what you wish for. After 10 years just to get this - and I don't think this would've been a good ending for the show back then, let alone now - I'm not all that enthused at the prospect of how much worse can ASP make things. S7's ending wasn't great but, especially in the face of not knowing at the time if they would get a S8, I give it props for at least trying to wrap itself up and leaving the characters with a modicum of dignity.

ICAM!

[WhosThatGirl]

3 hours ago, backhometome said:

When I say I dont think Logan is like Christopher I mean I dont think he would be an absent dad like him. Also it would be really crappy if she doesn't even tell him about the baby.

Im not for Rory/Logan (not that I ever was really) after  the cheating mess but I dont think the Logan/Chris parallel works. 

I was wondering about Christopher being an absent dad though; in his speech to Rory he said he backed off because no one would be able to get between Lorelei and Rory, so as much as he was an absent dad, it makes you wonder if Lorelei made him feel inadequate enough for him to be removed from the situation. It also made me think back to a season 6 scene where Christopher brought rory a phone and then felt the need to call Lorelei for permission. So Christopher stayed away but I wonder if his hand was forced 

[Nidratime]

Quote

We got it drilled into our heads in the revival that Lorelai is a force of nature who does what she wants (according to Emily in Winter) and that Rory is just like her, according to Christopher, in that an "uncontrollable" "force of nature" in his words who does what she wants. Accordingly, if she's already made up her mind that she's going to raise the baby alone as the Rory/Christopher scene suggests in hindsight, and if Logan=Christopher in this equation, that suggests that even assuming Rory will tell Logan about the pregnancy, there's absolutely nothing Logan can do or will do to stop her from raising his baby by herself.

If so, we all know how this will end and we need not watch anything more. Logan will be a stranger to his child and Rory will make 100 excuses why it's all his fault.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Nidratime

[Miss Slay]

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

We got it drilled into our heads in the revival that Lorelai is a force of nature who does what she wants (according to Emily in Winter) and that Rory is just like her, according to Christopher, in that an "uncontrollable" "force of nature" in his words who does what she wants. Accordingly, if she's already made up her mind that she's going to raise the baby alone as the Rory/Christopher scene suggests in hindsight, and if Logan=Christopher in this equation, that suggests that even assuming Rory will tell Logan about the pregnancy, there's absolutely nothing Logan can do or will do to stop her from raising his baby by herself.

How sad. There is no need for Rory to have the same experience as her mother because she is not 16! Lorelei never wanted to raise Rory by herself - I'm sure she would have loved a co-parent in Christopher but they were both 16. I feel like Lorelei has given Rory the impression that a father isn't important. Yes, she and Rory have a magical bond but I personally always thought Rory would do things differently than her mother. I would have like to see Rory get married, more than even seeing Luke and Lorelei's wedding.

Agree with the poster that said her prep school and ivy league education was wasted.

[WhoaWhoKnew]

It seems like everyone we've seen throughout the series has matured emotionally in one way or another over the last decade except Rory.

Very disappointing.

[Spartan Girl]

God, can somebody freaking post Luke's rant/Lorelai's proposal on YouTube?! I need to see this!!

[GreenScreenFX]

Am the only person that sees Jess is the possible father? Rory and Logan broke up during Summer. Jess and Rory had definitely meet on several occasions prior to the wedding.... is it possible they hooked up and are just being secretive? Did I miss a scene?

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, GreenScreenFX said:

Am the only person that sees Jess is the possible father? Rory and Logan broke up during Summer. Jess and Rory had definitely meet on several occasions prior to the wedding.... is it possible they hooked up and are just being secretive? Did I miss a scene?

I've been wishful thinking this but I don't think it's possible. I agree with others who have said that this moment is a lot of things for the creators, it's a way to erase all of season 7 and negate it and to not have to answer the who will Rory chose question by pandering to both sides, she's having Logan's baby but Jess still loves her.

[GreenScreenFX]

I also thought Emily was a goner when they included an insignificant shot of her changing her shoes.  Who does that? Nothing in tv happpens by accident. It looked like a bridge to the mundaness of death. 

[tarotx]

Imo Rory is Christopher-aimless in need of something. Falling back to her past love. She is so much like her father. It just made me super sad. I guess like her mom she will find herself in her child-maybe. Heck I see Lorelai and Luke raising the child while Rory is aimless running around being aimless into her 40's.  

[CalamityBoPeep]

43 minutes ago, GreenScreenFX said:

Am the only person that sees Jess is the possible father? Rory and Logan broke up during Summer. Jess and Rory had definitely meet on several occasions prior to the wedding.... is it possible they hooked up and are just being secretive? Did I miss a scene?

Until told otherwise by some future installment, I'm gonna fanwank that her pregnancy is due to her one-night stand with the Wookie. And that she never saw his face or heard his voice, for some reason. Maybe he didn't take off the mask. Maybe it was dark and he said nothing.

But yeah... he's Marty, and this is Marty's kid. <tongue firmly in cheek here LOL>

Anything to avoid going down the road of Logan being the dad and dealing with all the paternity drama that would ensue. I really don't want an explicit parallel in any future episodes between the Logan and Christopher relationships.

Marty. FTW.

Though, I'd still like her to end up with Jess, eventually.

Edited November 26, 2016 by CalamityBoPeep
ETA: I Am Not a Crackpot. (tm ;) )

[Megan]

Kelly Bishop is amazing. I loved everything about her in this series. Overall she is the MVP of The Gilmore Girls all seasons.

The Rory book was a little too much Jo and Little Women.

I came into the Gilmore Girls a few seasons in. I initially liked Rory and Lorelai and I think the episode when Michel won the RV is when I finally had enough of Lorelai. The fact that at 50 she's still trying to get things from her looks and quirky personality. I just can't. It's embarrassing.

I did relate to Lorelai being broken and lost after losing Richard. I have been emotionally a mess for the last 5 years since my Dad died. He and I weren't quite Lorelai/Rory thankfully, but so close and it makes me so sad that he is gone. (I just finally lost the 40lbs I gained from my despair, and that sounds so dramatic.) Also at the same time she's so self centered it probably wasn't even about Richard but the fact that she had feelings about Richard dying?

The whole Rory pregnancy thing is dumb. She's done nothing with what she's been given and she's 32! Not a big deal, it's a normal age to have children, even to be on your second or more...

The whole Berta/Gypsy thing was ridiculous.

I cannot say it enough Lorelai's hair was horrible.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Megan

[Blandings]

I loved most of the LL scenes and the idea that even if life, relationships and individuals aren't perfect, you can still find happiness. I loved Emily redefining herself as an individual. I loved Lorelai and Emily finally getting the therapy that should have begun decades ago! 

I disliked almost everything else. The dialogue felt off to me. The musical and most of the townie parts either bored or annoyed me. Not even Paris was as great as I had hoped. I have to agree with people who found this bleak, and not just because of how Richard's death impacted the show. The worst was Rory. I almost wish I could erase most of her scenes from memory. I've always disliked Logan and who Rory is around him even when it wasn't fair or logical to feel that way, and I hate them even more now. I understand why people think Jess might become Rory's version of Luke, but right now I want better for Jess, and I'm not even a big fan of his.

 I love good Rory and Lorelai scenes, but their bond didn't feel as strong to me. The only parts of this revival I could see watching again are the majority of the LL scenes and most of the Emily scenes.  

[cantbeflapped]

So I just finished Fall and had to come here to debrief.  I have always read a thread before commenting, but I'll go back and do that this time....will definitely go back and read though...am loving everyone's comments on the other seasons.  

Holy cow....the emotions!  I couldn't even comment on the Summer thread because I was like, "What the hell just happened?"   Fall has a lot of work to do to make up for Summer is what I was left thinking.  

It. Did. Not. Dissapoint.  Not for this viewer anyways...I'm sure opinions vary wildly.  I can't even hit on everything, but the scene with Rory and Christopher....my eyes just got wider and wider as she had a real, honest conversation with her dad.   And then at the end to learn why she's wondering about these things.  I never guessed....am I slow?  Mom, I'm pregnant....three words with a contraction....tricky!  I love the ending.  And Jess and Rory!   Squee that they gave us a little something to work with in our imaginations....love it!  

Thank God Loreali didn't do the hiking....lol.  I'm a bit dense, I guess, because I'm looking forward to what others here and my husband, when he finally sees it, have to say about the implications of Lorelais mountaintop experience.  

Loved the wedding...and the song....perfect!  I was a bit confused by Kirks role in it, but I was very touched that he had a role and by the moment when he got the text.  I love Kirk.  I don't think we are supposed to overthink him....lol. (A bit like Rory's Paul).  

Emily, thought her story was great.  I wondered in Winter if the maids family would sort of become her own...interesting.  I did finally figure out that the franchise money would be used to help Loreali with her inn/Michel problem.  And I'd totally forgotten we hadn't had our Sookie scene yet...so great surprise there!  Aww!  The gang all together....sniff!  

Wow did they leave the door open for more, huh?  At the very least, some great fan fiction.  

Okay, going back now to read all of your comments.  Look forward to lots of discussion with you guys.  

ETA....goes without saying, I guess, that I cried like a baby at the wedding.  It was such a bitter disappointment that we didn't see it in 1-7.  And I would have rather had it happen in the nine years in between.  But, I'll take it, imperfections and all!

Edited November 26, 2016 by cantbeflapped

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Rory naming her book Gilmore Girls is the most twee fucking thing ever. Amy can forever keep her nose out of the air after that.

[EarlGreyTea]

As a millennial, Rory feeling lost, unsure, and dissatisfied about her career really spoke to me. And the fact that her career woes weren't resolved at the end made me feel a little bit better about my own.

I absolutely loved S7 Logan. Whoever said above that ASP ignored all of his S7 growth and made him back into the rich, selfish guy he was before was spot on. I still loved all their scenes; I was able to handwave a lot of the fiancee nonsense because it's fiction and I like them as a fictional couple, but if it was real life I would be horrified.

A pig, a musical, Wild, and the LDB got more screen time than Mrs. Kim. I'm pretty salty about that.

Rory walking into Richard's study and seeing him sitting there was, for my money, the best moment of the series. Maybe because I've lost a loved one recently, but damn, that one was a punch in the gut. So beautiful.

Edited November 26, 2016 by EarlGreyTea

[CleoCaesar]

Quote

To me they played it like Rory was in love with Logan and was just waiting for him to leave his fiancé and pick her.  I also got the impression that Logan was also waiting for her to ask.  They played that like they were both 100% in love with each other and were both just nervous to take the plunge.  Maybe the ending would have worked a little more if they had dialed back the love.

Same here. They (Matt/Alexis, Logan/Rory) had really fantastic chemistry in the revival, better than on the actual show. I felt like Rory and Logan were both completely in love with each other but had genuinely stupid obstacles in the way that were there for no real reason other than plot.

There's no way I see the Logan in the revival being a deadbeat dad.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

The thing is, though - Logan WANTED to marry Rory. She didn't. I agreed with her. So I'm not saying she missed out on some big thing. But they clearly still have feelings for each other, so I don't have much sympathy for her in the "baby daddy" department, because she could have had him 100% if she wanted to. 

That is why I can totally justify the ending in my end. She is encouraged by Lorelia to tell Logan she is pregnant, he says to cut the bullshit and they get together for real.

She rejected him once when he wanted to commit to her and throughout their interactions, I felt he was waiting for her to ask for something permanent. He wouldn't/shouldn't leave whomever he was with for Rory without a sign from her given how flaky she's been with regards to him in the past. 

[FrumiusManxome]

Just finished Fall. I'm still processing, but what bothers me about the ending is that there is a distinct lack of happiness in the scene. Like others have said (I can't recall if it was on this site or reddit) I don't watch GG for the realism. Now I do get irritated at some of the manufactured drama and characterization (i.e. in real life people wouldn't make x y z decision), but I don't think it's too much to ask for a distinctly happy ending. Like Rory is clearly scared, and worried in the scene. Like her eyes kind of tearing up and how you can totally tell  she's gearing up to drop the bomb shell. And afterwards, we don't even get a real response from Lorelai. Just a shocked expression, then fade to black. I would have liked some excitement, but because of the way ASP wrote this whole thing there can't be any since Rory is not with the guy. So of course, either way Lorelai (and Rory) have to go through all kinds of other emotions before they 'get to the happiness', so to speak. I really wanted a definitive happy ending, since presumably this is the last time we'll see the old gang. 

I really don't like the idea that ASP (like season 6 imo) left this open ended to force Netflix's hand at getting another season/mini series. This was her last chance to truly give the fans what (I feel at this point) we deserve. And she wasted it trying to manipulate the situation to work out best for herself, and not the story, overall. I'd like to have the loose ends tied up, but I hate the idea that ASP will 'win' since she clearly doesn't care about screwing everything up as long as she gets what she wants. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

15 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I can't imagine Lorelai, Emily, or Luke allowing Rory to get away with not telling the father of her baby that he's going to be a father. That is beneath contempt. Logan's not an abusive man, a criminal, or a pedophile. He deserves to know that he's going to have a child in this world and he deserves to know it before he makes any other monumental decisions. Ugh. Christopher knew he was going to be a father and he had a lot less on the ball than Logan.

In addition to all the debunking, another  reason why the Logan/Christopher parallel doesn't work for me is that in order to Logan to be truly Christopher, he'd have to be told and be okay with Rory raising the baby without him. That is the most defining aspect of Lorelia and Christopher's relationship. The their parenting dynamics. 

Their hookups over the years was based on the fact that they were Rory' parent's Logan and Rory get together because they want to and didn't give two hoots about who they are with. 

It also didn't bother me that they cheated on other people. Logan's marriage is/will be a marriage of convenience, that must was clear. That is the kind of world he comes from. As for Rory, I don't mind that character flaw. She wants a guy and selfishlygoes for it. For all we know she had an open relationship with that guy. Her behavior is immoral but if she were perfect she'd be criticized for being a Mary Sue. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[EarlGreyTea]

1 hour ago, GreenScreenFX said:

I also thought Emily was a goner when they included an insignificant shot of her changing her shoes.  Who does that? Nothing in tv happpens by accident. It looked like a bridge to the mundaness of death. 

I thought that too and was ready to flip my lid if it happened. I really, really wonder how much Edward Hermann's death changed ASP's plans for Emily. I would love to know what was originally planned for Richard and Emily. I think it gave the series a wistful tone than it might not have otherwise had. It clearly shook Lorelai to her core, but if Edward Hermann was still around, it may have just been played as a midlife crisis for her.

One of my personal favorite scenes in the original series is when Emily is annoyed at Richard's constantly being in her hair when he briefly retired, and I wonder if there would have been more of that if Richard was in the revival.

Edited November 26, 2016 by EarlGreyTea