S02.E05: Weaponizer

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Lucifer investigates the murder of his favorite action-movie hero, whose longtime rival is one of the initial suspects, until evidence shows otherwise. Meanwhile, Uriel appears, forcing Amenadiel to admit he's lost his powers. Later, Lucifer and Uriel battle over Chloe and their mother.

[storyskip]

WOW

Little bit of something for everybody in this episode.

I'm still digesting all the nuances (and all the 4th wall breaks, Supernatural, Angel) but just when it seemed we'd seen Tom Ellis' range, he hits another gear entirely.  The man is so damn good.

[ActualSize]

Wow! I didn't expect Lucifer to make me cry. Not as much Charisma as I wanted, but they did get in a brooding, trench coat wearing Angel reference.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I don't know if Uriel's "I didn't see that coming." was supposed to be funny or not, but I laughed. All I could think of was this:

[scarynikki12]

I legit got nervous about Maze even though it's not yet sweeps. So relieved she's ok. 

Lucifer and Detective Douche bonding was delightful. More of that while Chloe's off having Girls Night. 

I love that Trixie likes Neil Gaiman for her bedtime story. 

[FormerMod-a1]

I'll comfort Luci.  ... and Amenadiel...  :-P

Also, sad Uriel is gone already. 

[ProudMary]

I thought Michael Imperioli was going to be in more than just one episode.  :(

[Gigi43]

Nothing says "Opposite Day" like Lucifer and Dan bro-ing out. Chloe was right about it being adorable, though unsettling. 

 

I was sure they cast Michael Imperioli to play this kind of role to stick around, so I was completely shocked. "Big bad Lucifer" was awesome... followed by heartbreaking. As great as Ellis is though, DB Woodside is certainly pulling weight, I'm feeling for both of them. I love the show bothered to make Amenadiel use "Uri" just like "Luci".

[dippydee]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I legit got nervous about Maze even though it's not yet sweeps. So relieved she's ok. 

Me too! I was pretty much screaming "don't kill   Maze" at the screen. Especially not before I get to see her living with Trixie.

I was genuinely surprised they killed Uriel. I didn't see it coming either!

Im super confused about Charlotte now. She seems to really love her kids (except maybe the little human one) but it's Tricia Halfer so I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

Based on the previews, Lucifer is going to go dark next week. I'm looking forward to it. Tom Ellis is great with the comedy but something about his emotional moments really hits me.

[Jlina]

Caught me off guard, Lucifer's face at the end was gut wrenching.  A Cain and Able theme?!  Not sure I liked it, but it will keep it interesting, and keep the show twisty.  I caught the warning at the beginning and thought, huh, has that been there before?

I keep wondering what does he feel for Chloe? Not love, maybe an agape kind of thing?  Making it doubly confusing he'd kill his brother...

of course, were he human it'd be pretty much self defense in Chloe's behalf. 

Wondering what the comic books say - anyone?

[Sandman87]

I was hoping they'd keep Uriel around, just so I could refer to him as "Urinal" on a regular basis.

Sounds like "Dad" isn't terribly communicative with anyone.

So, who gets to call Azrael to tell her to come and get her sword?

[Happy Harpy]

Another excellent episode for me, with the right balance between humor and emotions.

Once more, good move with cast integration. After Chloe and Maze became friends, "sort of", Luci and Dan bond over action movies. Maze and Charlotte was interesting. I, too, wonder about the degree of Charlotte's sincerity.

Ella is the Shipper on Deck, she's the "bubbly one" so it isn't surprising but it made me laugh all the same. Since Lucifer wants to sleep with everyone or almost (I wouldn't even rule out Dan after this one) I feel that in spite of the sexual banter the show rarely puts a romantic label on Lucifer/Chloe as clearly as it did with that trope. But whatever it is, I do love the bond between them and I loved how it played in this episode. Plus, protective Lucifer is a hoot.

More Trixie and Trixifer in one episode! Thank you writers! I especially loved Trixie's last scene with Chloe. It was warm and fuzzy and adorable. The parallel/contrast with Lucifer and Charlotte's last scene was nice, too.

If Lucifer fighting wasn't badass enough already, Maze fighting was awesome. Amenadiel, Charlotte and Lucifer were heartbreaking.

To be honest, I didn't like the little I saw of M.Imperioli's work before, but an actor can always surprise you in the right role. This one didn't change my mind. I was wondering how much one-note Uriel would rain on my weekly Lucifer parade when bam, they killed him off. Sorry, Lucifer, I was positively gleeful for a couple of seconds before I felt sorry for you killing your brother.

I didn't realize that Dr.Linda wasn't in this one  before I wrote this post but I'm looking forward to seeing her again in the next.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[dwmarch]

5 hours ago, storyskip said:

WOW

That about says it! To this point the show has mostly been procedural case-of-the-week with a supernatural element thrown in. But this episode went deep into the mythology and like you said... WOW. I haven't seen angelic ass-kicking like that since the Christopher Walker horror movie The Prophecy.

Fine work from everyone involved, including Marc Dacascos who has been known to give a block of wood a run for its money. And in addition to the trenchcoat and brooding, we also had an Angel reference in having Cordelia mourn Wesley!

Luci and Dan bonding over cheesy action flicks was comedy gold. I also adored Ella's "get a room already" followed by a sheepish "too soon?" when she notices that Dan isn't having it. Last but not least, Maze brought me a good laugh when she actually barked at that kid and made him apologize immediately!

Also in the wow department, Luci sure looked like ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag at the end.

Incredible episode. I started watching this show for the envelope-pushing humor and leather-clad lovelies. And while there is still much of both at all times, I'm now watching because I really want to know what's going to happen! Hashtag Team Lucifer!

[CheshireCat]

As dark as the episode was, I think it was one of my favorites. Definitely had to let it sink in, which is a good sign. Loved all the family dynamic in that episode. While I do like Ella, and liked her in the first two episodes, I'm now not sure about her anymore. Would have loved if they had done more with her faith and Lucifer as they did at the beginning but the method actor thing seemed kind of lame in this episode and it kind of feels like they don't really need her for anything and could have used a guest star/rotating crime tech. Maybe that'll change later though.

Still not seeing the romantic chemistry between Lucifer and Chloe, really. They work as friends but I found Ella's comment kind of weird. I think Chloe and Dan have more romantic chemistry, actually. And I loved seeing Lucifer and Dan hitting it off. It's one of few shows in which I really am not rooting for the leads to hook up because I think it works well the way it is.

I thought Uriel's comment was interesting - that he's either going to take Mom or what God gave Lucifer. I know it was all about the deal, but in the season finale, Lucifer said that if Dad will make sure that Chloe lives, he'll be the son Dad always wanted him to be. Since Lucifer was dying and given back life and not Chloe, it made me wonder if Dad "gave" Lucifer Chloe in general, for whatever reason. After all, there's still the whole being vulnerable around Chloe thing.

I'm still really torn about Mom. She seems genuine but I don't entirely trust her. I keep wondering if she has an agenda. But I loved that scene between her and Lucifer before Lucifer went to see Uriel.

I also keep wondering about Maze and Lucifer. In season 1 they stated that Maze's sole purpose was to protect Lucifer and that she couldn't help doing it. Then, in S2 she said that she's not working for Lucifer anymore. And yet, she keeps showing up when Lucifer needs protection. So, did the not working for Lucifer anymore simply refer to working at Lux?

And lastly, I really hope that Lucifer killing Uriel doesn't affect his powers. That they are affected while he's around Chloe is more than enough for my taste; I really like him the way he is, with "out of this world" powers. Makes him and the show stand out and I like that it gives him the possibility to just do something at times. I also think that even though there's a predictability factor involved, it makes things less predictable because he doesn't need to be careful when Chloe's not around, so you'll never really know what he's going to do and how exactly it's going to turn out.

[storyskip]

6 hours ago, Jlina said:

Wondering what the comic books say - anyone?

This is big deviation from the comics to be honest.

Spoiler

In the comics Lucifer usually avoids having to kill.  He does orchestrate comics Amenadiel's death but Amen left him no other choice and he wasn't regretful afterwards.  Uriel is actually the architect of the Silver City and is murdered by Mazikeen and her brother, the son Uriel had with Lilith.  Who he refuses to acknowledge.

The children kill him for disrespecting their mother.  This is shown as one of the catalysts for Lucifer's rebellion, as Gabriel insists it is Yahweh's will that the children must die for their transgressions but Lucifer insists that no one can speak for their Father and must exercise their own free will/judgement.

So while there are pieces of it in what we see happen, it's not a direct lift from the comics.

Something I found interesting, aside from all the good elements people have already pointed out, is the Uriel was acting on his own.

He says he was preempting Mom going back home, because he needs to protect Dad.  NOT that Dad sent him.

Edited October 25, 2016 by storyskip

[Rosiejuliemom]

Would it kill FOX to bump this show's budget up a smidge. That way we could get amazing fight choreography and better looking angel wings. Uriel's just looked a tad too CGI, but I guess that could have been because they were seen in full sunlight.

[SimoneS]

I occasionally watch this show for Kevin Alejandro who is the best actor in the cast, yet woefully underused. I watched this whole episode for Michael Imperioli and cannot believe that they only had him for one episode. If anyone should have been made a regular for the season, it should have been him not the mother's whose sole purpose is apparently walk around in tight outfits. They neutered Amenadiel so Uriel should have been Lucifer's nemesis for the season. Maybe they couldn't afford him, but it sucks anyway.

I liked Maze's fight scene with Uriel, but I thought fight between Lucifer and Uriel was poorly done. Lucifer's outburst at God and the final scene with his mother was trite and blah.  

Edited October 25, 2016 by SimoneS

[seveneightnine]

So here is my question, and maybe I just missed the intricacies of the conversation, but if Uriel wasn't sent by Dad, why exactly was he there? Yes, yes to protect Dad. But he made some statement about Mom worming her way back into Dad's good graces and Him forgiving her, and somehow that's a 'bad' thing? I'm not sure I understand what he was trying to prevent. If Dad forgives Mom, will something terrible happen?

Loved Dan and Lucifer's bonding over the Body Bags movies. Loved Luci offering to take Ella into a back room at the crime scene.

Didn't really like Luci running out on Amenadiel right after his confession. I know he had to stop Uriel, but dude, your other brother really needs you.

Always happy to see Marc Dacascos. Allez Cuisine!!

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, seveneightnine said:

But he made some statement about Mom worming her way back into Dad's good graces and Him forgiving her, and somehow that's a 'bad' thing? I'm not sure I understand what he was trying to prevent. If Dad forgives Mom, will something terrible happen?

My interpretation is that mom is playing the long con, at least Uri thinks so, worming her way back into her kids' good graces in order to get back to whatever version of heaven this particular 'father' exists in so that she can do something terrible. I'm seeing this more as father = order while mom = chaos. So, Uri is trying to keep chaos from taking over.

I have to admit the biggest shock this ep was that Uri was killed already. I thought for sure he'd be a recurring character. I also have to admit, I couldn't watch when he was beating on Amendi. At least his fight with Maze had her fighting back. Amendi just crumbled. I really want to give him a big old (naked) hug.

[storyskip]

Sometimes I wonder if streaming services like Netflix and Hulu haven't irrevocably altered the way the consumer wants to receive their story these days.  It doesn't seem people are patient enough for an episode by episode serial telling of a story, to accept that some questions are answered in an episode and some are raised not to be answered until 3 or 4 episodes down the line.

Hey I'll admit, I don't read comics for much this reason.  I want my book series complete!

This is not a knock, just an observation of viewing habits and what is raised on boards like these as concerns.

This episode was full of so much and yet people are pointing out minor issues and hanging questions that, in my opinion, are meant to be left hanging.

What we got to see:

Chloe did damn good police work here.  Maybe not the whole case of the week but at the end, when she faced her fears and calmly talked down the man pointing a shotgun at her.  She was scared, she wanted to go home to her daughter but she didn't allow Lucifer to exacerbate the situation and possibly end up with gun fire.  She talked the man through the moment.

Maze was AMAZING this episode.  She pretty much owned everybody.  She told Lucifer and Amenadiel they were going down the wrong path.  She had a clear, firm view on the situation and she didn't let them dictate her actions to her.  She showed up and outflanked Charlotte with child management and also with laying it out to Charlotte what needed to be what.  Maze was decisive, logical, took action and probably at the end of it all, right.  If Charlotte had gone back to hell, Uriel would still be alive, Chloe would be alive, etc etc.   Plus when Maze showed up for the fight with Uriel she was a lot more effective than Lucifer, though my read on that is Uriel has studied Lucifer since they were children, Maze was a complete unknown.

Personally I found the church choreography beautiful.  I have always loved the angel vs angel fights.  I think they are choreographed to be brutal, and then edited with subtle sound enhancements to give them an otherworldly feel.  These are celestial beings, not humans, they go toe to toe with strength, they're not trained ninjas.  If you just look at the difference between the way Maze and Lucifer fight.  Lucifer tends to hold his ground and throw power into his blows, or he charges and uses his body (power).  Maze is quick, nimble, sneaky like a demon.  He fights from a position of throwing his power around, he shows you head on what you're coming at, she fights from the shadows, she is an unknown and doesn't show you her full range until she's on top of you kicking your ass.

It's subtle character stuff but it's there in the choreography and shows how the producers and crew of this show are still packing so much into what little they have.

Because yeah, you can bet that FOX hasn't given them unlimited funds.  The wings could be better, though even that is a story telling device.  Uriel is meant to be something of the family joke.  The annoying little brother who always tried to play with the big kids but just wasn't all that.  He's shown as sneaky, where the other two have always been anything but subtle.  It's why both Amenadiel and Lucifer underestimate him.  Their hubris, their position as BIG BROTHER to Uriel has made them blind to the fact that ... things have changed.

Even Charlotte was interesting.  I wonder if she'd have actually allowed her boys to take her back to Hell.  She certainly sold me on the decision when Maze showed up with her bags packed, so to speak.

The last 10 minutes with Lucifer and Ellis had so much in them.  This was Lucifer and his questions about Dad at the forefront.  His frustration with the headgames was palpable and then, when he killed Uriel, the shock and horror at having become the murderer he insisted, for so long that he wasn't? Once again we're seeing the show pivot towards the next arc of story telling.

So that brings me to the dangling questions.

I think we're supposed to wonder why Uriel came down, if it wasn't at Yahweh's bequest.

What did Uriel tell Lucifer just before he died?

Amenadiel, the strongest of them all, has fallen ... will he get back up?  If so, how?

Is Charlotte playing the longest game to ever long game or was she genuinely shocked that her one child killed the other?  Or is this exactly the sort of destruction and chaos she wants to sow?

What about Lucifer's questions towards his father?  All these things that Lucifer and other characters in the show are attributing to "Dad's behind this/Dad's going to do X, Y, Z" but is he?  Circle back to Chloe's speech, about her refusal to accept the idea of Fate (Dad) and instead living her life with personal responsibility.  So how does Faith fit in with personal responsibility AKA Free Will?  Which I personally feel is one of the biggest questions this show tackles in among the jokes and quips.

All these little threads tie together.  You really cannot just toss away any part of this show, because it all comes back together.  The problem is, it's being done week by week, which doesn't seem to be a story telling format that satisfies an audience anymore.  I really wonder, if this show was on Netflix or Hulu and we were able to watch it all in one marathon sitting, if the same concerns would be raised.  Maybe, idk people process stuff differently but this episode got me back on firmly for the ride into the winter break!

Edited October 25, 2016 by storyskip

[Primetimer]

This is the week we get introduced to a third heavenly sibling, Uriel, and Lucifer tries to get his big brother Amenadiel to fix his problems for him. Unfortunately, he just ends up creating more trouble for himself.

View the full article

[Good Queen Jane]

I could swear that I heard Uriel say the word "love" to Lucifer as he lay dying. I couldn't understand anything else, but that word came through loud and clear (at least to me). What I don't know is whether he said that he loved Lucifer, that Dad loved Lucifer or that Mom didn't love Lucifer, or maybe all you need is love. I am sure that Lucifer did hear what Uriel said, his denials to the contrary, and that was part of the reason Luci was so distraught at the end.

And I really want to see Azrael show up. I have a feeling Sis can kick all her brothers' butts!

Edited October 25, 2016 by Good Queen Jane
apostophes matter.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, great episode! So much to like here! They actually managed to combine a good COTW with a ton of storyline stuff, plus with lots of interesting character beats. Just a great time. 

Poor poor Amenadiel. He just seems to broken by all of this, its pretty depressing. You know Luci, I get that time is of the essence here and a lot of shit is going down, but your brother really needs some support here! It is kind of because of you that all this has happened to him! Not exactly his fault, but he did fall probably because he sided with Lucifer. 

I am really not a huge Chloe fan, but I thought even she was pretty good here, talking down the action star guy, and then reading Coraline to Trixie. Anyone who introduces their kid to Neil Gaimon is alright in my book. 

Maz was awesome as always. Next week can we get Maz and Trixie together for some tea parties or ghost hunting or something?

Dan and Lucifer bonding over dumb action movies was awesome, and probably as much as I`ve ever liked Dan. He had so much more life hanging with Lucifer and gushing about those cheesy action movies, it really was pretty adorable. 

Man, I thought Michael Imperioli was going to be around longer. Still, he did do great here, and I liked this butterfly effect power. 

[lschmeiser]

Something I missed last night, but realized this AM -- Coraline is a story about a child who's fooled by something that originally positions itself as an ideal mother, but is in fact incredibly treacherous. Chloe reading the story to her daughter, keeping her promise to Trixie and making them both happy in an honorable way, is the direct opposite of how Charlotte's continued presence affects her children. I feel like we're getting a lot of clues about how Charlotte is bad news. We've already seen that angels can be complacent and self-centered. Who knows what Mom is capable of?

[Gigi43]

I'm under the impression Moms little story about Uriel basically being relentless was to plant seeds of getting rid of him. I don't trust her at all. 

 

I'm torn because a lot of these actors have the ability to do heavier material but this show has become my source of comedy and I don't want that to be sacrificed for more family/angel stories. I don't want a sad Lucifer for long. 

 

I do think that the show is working at a fast pace for today's audience. But yet they were slow to start this all up. By the time the first season really picked up in quality the ratings had dropped off a bit and they didn't regain any of the larger audience it had when it started after the X-Files. People don't seem to be willing to give things a chance these days and on one hand I get why there are many things to watch but on the other hand, are so many people really that filled up that they can't give shows time to build? A lot of now classic shows weren't hits from the start.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Gigi43

[Bruinsfan]

I was not impressed by Michael Imperioli. At All. Nor was I fond of Lucifer fangirling about some Wesley Snipes expy; I'd think martial arts B movies  would be very low on the list of entertainments that he's fascinated by—doesn't go at all with the sophisticated hedonist image he otherwise projects.

I actually liked Decker better than I have since she was freaking out over camera footage of Lucifer early last season. German's acting and the writing for her character gelled for the first time in far too long.

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Maz was awesome as always. Next week can we get Maz and Trixie together for some tea parties or ghost hunting or something?

 

Spoiler

According to L.A Brandt (TV Line), Maze takes Trixie trick-or-treating in 2x06. Next episode.

I think that the very concept of "Lucifer" might scare part of the audience. I talked about it to one of my brothers, and he objected "but it has to be very adult, like those cable shows? (Translation: NC-17 sex/violence, blasphemy *clutching pearls*)". My other brother who doesn't have this kind of preventions watched the first episode because I recommended it. He and his wife ended up binging S1 and they are now faithful viewers.

It reminds me of Kevin Smith's "Dogma" in some way. Whereas many people were afraid it'd be blasphemous for the sake of it, under the irreverent (and sometimes crass in this case) humor, the movie made interesting/beautiful statements about faith and humanity. Jmho of course.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[Rosiejuliemom]

23 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Nor was I fond of Lucifer fangirling about some Wesley Snipes expy; I'd think martial arts B movies  would be very low on the list of entertainments that he's fascinated by—doesn't go at all with the sophisticated hedonist image he otherwise projects.

 

Oddly enough, I found that totally in character for Lucifer. From what we've seen, he doesn't have the most sophisticated taste in movies. He has seen Hot Tub High School and was a fan of Penelope Decker, who I think mainly did B horror flicks.

[lorbeer]

Somehow that felt fresh. I don't like Mummy being around because she's obvious trouble, but maybe this is what keeps it interesting.

Lucifer was great, I really hoped for the devil's power though. I would like to see more of them. Like super strength or red eyes. Nothing too much I guess, just to keep the devil more unhuman. Or something.

[CheshireCat]

5 hours ago, seveneightnine said:

So here is my question, and maybe I just missed the intricacies of the conversation, but if Uriel wasn't sent by Dad, why exactly was he there? Yes, yes to protect Dad. But he made some statement about Mom worming her way back into Dad's good graces and Him forgiving her, and somehow that's a 'bad' thing? I'm not sure I understand what he was trying to prevent. If Dad forgives Mom, will something terrible happen?

 

To me, it sounded like Uriel was the "outcast". Mom reminded Lucifer that Uriel always wanted to play with the others, so it sounded like no one really liked him, maybe including dad? We don't know what happened after Lucifer got cast out, but maybe Uriel got more attention after that? Or maybe he was still vying for Dad's attention so he thought if he brought Mom back to Hell, he'd become Dad's favorite son? Maybe he blames Mom for the lack of attention?

They're all maybes but this is kind of what I'm going with. Jealousy, basically.

[gwhh]

What was the name of the sword he had and who did Uriel steal it from??

 

Does anyone else notice Michael Imperioli almost always die anytime he in a tv show?

Edited October 25, 2016 by gwhh

[seveneightnine]

Quote

What was the name of the sword he had and who did Uriel steal it from??

The sword belonged to their angel sister Azrael (the Angel of Death). Luci asks Uriel where he got it when he pulls it out, and Uriel said he took it when she wasn't paying attention. Not sure if it has a name.

CheshireCat-I tend to lean toward Mabinogia's idea that Uriel was afraid of something that might happen if Mom went home (create chaos??).

[Bruinsfan]

Apparently it was never Uriel's plan to return her to Hell, he intended to utterly destroy her all along. Which begs the question, what sort of risks can she pose to Yahweh if she does return to Heaven?

[Eneya]

I think it was less "she might destroy dad" and more "mommy issues".

[Bobbin]

A theme of this show is free will, choices and consequences. Consequences are Lucifer's forte. This may be the first time Lucifer has had to face the consequences of his actions, his constant mistreatment and rejection of Uriel as children. Mum, too, for not stopping it. There is a parallel with the movie "American History X." Chickens eventually come home to roost

Luci, Uri, Mase -- no nickname for Amenadiel?

The fan-boy exchanges between Luci and Chloe's ex were priceless.

[CheshireCat]

4 hours ago, seveneightnine said:

 

CheshireCat-I tend to lean toward Mabinogia's idea that Uriel was afraid of something that might happen if Mom went home (create chaos??).

Just throwing it out there but wouldn't that suggest that Uriel was acting rationally and his actions were justified? I certainly am skeptical of Mom and don't really trust that she doesn't have an agenda besides wanting to be with her children. But Uriel didn't seem rational to me. And from what we know, it doesn't appear that Mom created chaos before. Lucifer thinks she did nothing when he was sent to Hell which means she would have been complacent, Mom says she's responsible for Lucifer being sent to Hell so that he wouldn't be killed which makes her protective of her children. Amenadiel hasn't reacted in a way that suggests Mom was a danger once Lucifer left.

I don't really see Mom as a danger. I've actually wondered if either she orchestrated things so that her children ended up on earth and she'd be stuck with them there or if maybe she was working with Dad all along, got sent to Hell so she could watch over Lucifer and that Dad set her free so she could reunite the family and get them all back where Dad wants them.

Whatever Mom's agenda is, I don't really see Uriel as the good guy. He seemed to meddle with things he wasn't supposed to meddle with (since he acted on his own) and I'm actually wondering why he got away with it.

Edited October 26, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Delphi]

I have no idea what is going on with Mom, but I'm not entirely convinced that she's evil in any sense. But I do agree that it feels like a organized versus chaos kind of thing.

I definitely didn't think that she was trying to manipulate Lucifer into into killing Uriel, because first of all she couldn't know that she had stolen the Angel of Death's blade.  I think she was trying to communicate that Uri had always wanted to be included and that he should try to go that route, and I think Uri was confused with so little guidance from Him that he didn't really know what to do.  As the youngest I could see Uri as taking Mom's fall like a young child, the one that leaves is the bad guy.  He had no idea and he backed Lucifer into a corner and Luci reacted.  I felt the actual grief between the two in that final scene and it was actually very touching. 

[Jlina]

The conversation is very interesting now that we're going deeper.  Uriel, in a sense of creating a pattern of behavior that resulted in his desired outcome, could actually be considered to be on the side of order.  I found that whole aspect of the character pretty fascinating - but I still wished Maze could of kicked his ass.

On the thematic arc of free will and consequences, I am interested to see what direction we're going in.  I studied theology in college and have avoided any long windedness here but it's becoming very interesting to me as I am categorically against predetermination and predestination.  Fate, destiny and free will are pretty contradictory.

The theology teacher said that the whole "Devil" personification was fairly recent and based on very miniscule mentions in the Bible (particularly in the Old Testament) of an adversary; although I see some definite mentions searching Bible verses, so I'm still somewhat trying to figure out who this Lucifer is.

The idea of Lucifer acting out a Cain/Able scenario is pretty meta I think; although I have no idea what it means.   It'll take me a while to wrap my mind around it and y'all are a very insightful bunch.

One thing I abhor is in all these shows - here's looking at you, Supernatural! - is that God has left the building. I see the need for it plot wise, though.  So, yep, like someone upthread said, this simple procedural has become something much more complex.  But it's very cool that it's also a simple, fun procedural at the same time.

[Teitr Styrr]

11 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I could swear that I heard Uriel say the word "love" to Lucifer as he lay dying. I couldn't understand anything else, but that word came through loud and clear (at least to me).

And I really want to see Azrael show up. I have a feeling Sis can kick all her brothers' butts!

That's what I came here to post. I'm pretty sure the only word I understood was "love". Echo your sentiment on Azrael (Azi?) too. Now that she's been named dropped, she has to show up. Also, to get her sword! 

[patchwork]

Obviously he still cares about her but it feels like the writers have pulled back from Lucifer/Chloe romantically.

Or maybe I'm just disappointed that I keep expecting Chloe to become part of the main arc of the show but it's not happening. 

I don't think God has left the building but someone who's there and never really talks to you isn't all that different. From what we've seen of her Mom would definitely win Dad over, though that makes me wonder what she did to make him so angry he sent her to hell in the first place, but Uri never explained why that would be such a bad thing. 

I'm glad Amenadiel losing his grace (is that just a Supernatural thing?) is no longer a secret, it hasn't been that long but his moping and Lucifer's cluelessness was beginning to feel dragged out. 

[justjoan]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Not exactly his fault, but he did fall probably because he sided with Lucifer.

Well, maybe. Or maybe it was all that Pride, Wrath, Lust and Envy he was indulging in last season, and all those bad choices they lead to (releasing a damned soul and giving him a kill mission, sleeping with a demon, etc). Amenadiel rode really far off the ranch last season, and he justified it over and over by saying it was all due to his brother. Thing is, he's responsible for his own reactions to Lucifer, provocation notwithstanding. I don't think God's gonna buy "the Devil made me do it." He might also be in trouble for siding with Luci now, but he might not be. Depends on what game Dad's playing.

The guest cast on this one was so much fun. Michael Imperioli was a disappointment, though I can't tell how much of that was him and how much was Uriel just not being that interesting compared to his brothers. The other three, though, were great. I can't believe Cordelia and Samurai Jack were such dumb, sloppy criminals! For shame! And I liked Dan more here than maybe ever before. It probably won't carry over, but I have to agree with Chloe that he and Lucifer were oddly adorable.

[thuganomics85]

Man, they stacked the deck with the guest casting for the crime of the week.  Charisma Carpenter.  Mark Dacascos.  Phil LaMarr!  I always love it when I see an actor that I mainly know from voice work, actually on screen and in person.  There were a few moments where he said something and I was like "There's the Green Lantern!"  But my favorite part about the entire case was it leading to Lucifer and Dan actually bonding for once, over their love of horrible, B action movies.  I so want to see a movie night with those two!

Surprised that Uriel has already been taken off the map.  I guess the reason they got someone like Michael Imperioli to play him ended up being because he was available for an episode and then willing to bounce.  Lucifer killing them to save Chloe (and Mom) was a good bit, and I'm curious to see how this will effect him.  Tom Ellis really sold Lucifer's guilt at the end.

Amenadiel looks rough!  He's pretty much a human now.  D.B. Woodside is doing a great job.  Glad he's getting a lot to do this season.

Maze scaring Charlotte's child into behaving again was great.  Maze is the greatest!

The Trixie stuff was pretty hilarious, with her walking in while Lucifer was goofing off with Maze's sex toys and whatnot, and his freakout reaction to her as always.  I don't think I will ever grow tired over how much Lucifer is thrown by her.

I feel like this show has been improving a lot this season (and I enjoyed the first one for what it was.)  The characters and all the interactions are pretty amazing.  I actually like all the regulars on some levels (even the newbies like Charlotte and Ellie), and that is extremely rare for me.  But as with most things FOX, I remind myself that all it takes is one wrong move, and it's Sleepy Hollow territory.  Don't become Sleepy Hollow, Lucifer!

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, patchwork said:

Obviously he still cares about her but it feels like the writers have pulled back from Lucifer/Chloe romantically.

Or maybe I'm just disappointed that I keep expecting Chloe to become part of the main arc of the show but it's not happening. 

I think that as long they're not exploring why Chloe isn't affected by Lucifer and/or don't let Chloe investigate what is going on with Lucifer, she can't become part of the main arc.

 

2 hours ago, patchwork said:

I don't think God has left the building but someone who's there and never really talks to you isn't all that different. From what we've seen of her Mom would definitely win Dad over, though that makes me wonder what she did to make him so angry he sent her to hell in the first place, but Uri never explained why that would be such a bad thing. 

If Mom is to be believed then she didn't do anything. I'm not sure if I believe her but I do think it's a possibility.

About Amenadiel losing his powers - Lucifer mentioned that Amenadiel has fallen, so I guess that the loss of power could be explained through that. At the same time, Lucifer didn't lose his powers or, at least, he has some powers. So, does that mean that Dad gave the Devil powers or does that mean that Amenadiel is not losing his powers because he has fallen but because of the way it happened? Or is it completely unrelated? After all, Lucifer didn't loose any of his powers in his five years on earth and I'm sure he committed a ton of sins during that time. Or is the devil simply immune from being affected by sins and Amenadiel is not because he's an angel?

I have a feeling that they might not explain why Uriel thought that it would be such a bad thing for Mom to return (somehow it seems to be the kind of thing viewers notice more than the writers did though I could be wrong about that) but I sure hope that they're going to explain why Amenadiel lost his powers.

[Gummo]

Nope. I don't accept that Uriel is necessarily dead.

He's the pattern-seer. He sees an infinite number of moves ahead. NOTHING has ever surprised him.

So perhaps he anticipated Lucifer's snapping and attempting to murder him with Azrael's blade? And substituted a fake?

And is playing a long, long game?

[Gigi43]

In the first episode of the season didn't Lucifer say Mom was the one who caused plagues and floods on Earth? It kinda sounded like they were building to Mom hating Earth because it got more attention than she did from God. But then they moved on to Tricia Healfers ass and whatnot. I thought Uriel said before the punches were thrown that he believed mom would get back with Dad and destroy him, which I took to mean in a literal sense, if he can be destroyed she'd find the way.

[hoopznyo]

1 hour ago, Gummo said:

Nope. I don't accept that Uriel is necessarily dead.

He's the pattern-seer. He sees an infinite number of moves ahead. NOTHING has ever surprised him.

So perhaps he anticipated Lucifer's snapping and attempting to murder him with Azrael's blade? And substituted a fake?

And is playing a long, long game?

De-lurking to second this opinion. I also think/hope mom is playing her sons on earth-- otherwise I can't understand why they seemed worried when she got out. 

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

In the first episode of the season didn't Lucifer say Mom was the one who caused plagues and floods on Earth? It kinda sounded like they were building to Mom hating Earth because it got more attention than she did from God. But then they moved on to Tricia Healfers ass and whatnot. I thought Uriel said before the punches were thrown that he believed mom would get back with Dad and destroy him, which I took to mean in a literal sense, if he can be destroyed she'd find the way.

Yes, he did. Lucifer also mentioned that once Dad started meddling with humanity the happy family started to break apart in a therapy session, so it sounds like none of them were happy and that Dad actually destroyed the family with his humanity project.

I still don't think Uriel can be believed though. While I don't trust Mom, I trust Uriel even less. Uriel pretended to be there on Dad's behalf and he intended to kill someone even though he wasn't ordered to. Uriel sounded very much like the child who was always vying for attention and who was jealous of everyone else. He also sounded like he had a personal score to settle with Mom, not an "official" one. I'd say it takes some pretty strong hatred to want to completely destroy your own mother.

3 hours ago, hoopznyo said:

De-lurking to second this opinion. I also think/hope mom is playing her sons on earth-- otherwise I can't understand why they seemed worried when she got out. 

Lucifer thought she'd kill him. He said as much. I would assume because he had her locked up and had her tortured for all this time. And Mom seems to have a temper, too, considering that she caused the floods and plagues.

 

4 hours ago, Gummo said:

Nope. I don't accept that Uriel is necessarily dead.

He's the pattern-seer. He sees an infinite number of moves ahead. NOTHING has ever surprised him.

 

Uriel said himself that he did not see this coming and to me, it sounded like he meant it.

I might be wrong, of course, but I don't think Uriel's purpose was to be a foe (and I don't think they need him to be because I think they have plenty of story without it) but to push Lucifer into killing him so that they can tell how he'll deal with that.

[Good Queen Jane]

48 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Quote

Apparently it was never Uriel's plan to return her to Hell, he intended to utterly destroy her all along. Which begs the question, what sort of risks can she pose to Yahweh if she does return to Heaven?

I really don't understand why he didn't just sneak into town, do the deed, and then sneak off from wherever he came from. 

Uriel would have to find her first. Even Lucifer didn't recognize Mom in Charlotte's body when she first showed up.

[SillyOldClothCat]

Something I missed last night, but realized this AM -- Coraline is a story about a child who's fooled by something that originally positions itself as an ideal mother, but is in fact incredibly treacherous. Chloe reading the story to her daughter, keeping her promise to Trixie and making them both happy in an honorable way, is the direct opposite of how Charlotte's continued presence affects her children. I feel like we're getting a lot of clues about how Charlotte is bad news. We've already seen that angels can be complacent and self-centered. Who knows what Mom is capable of?

Good catch! I love all the levels this show operates on. It's my absolute favorite current show, and if it were on Hulu or Netflix like @storyskip mentioned, I'd have binge-watched the whole season by now

[Delphi]

19 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

That's what I came here to post. I'm pretty sure the only word I understood was "love". 

I'm pretty sure he said "Give mom my..." then died before he could say love. 

 

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I really don't understand why he didn't just sneak into town, do the deed, and then sneak off from wherever he came from.  The only thing that I can figure, is that he 

Now on to the kid Trixie.  Who the heck names their kid Trixie?  It sounds like a name of a hooker, stripper, or a rabbit that sells cereal.

Her full name is Beatrice.   I have no idea why.  but Trixie is a nickname .