S01.E08: Most Improved Player

[JessDVD]

I'm still stuck on Eleanor being 2 actual years older than I am right now, and lying about her age because that means I'm old enough that people my age say that they're younger than they are and how did that happen.

The pace here is so fast that I really am starting to wonder what they'll do if they get renewed. What are we, 8 in? So only 5 left for what's been ordered. I bet Eleanor's story will be wrapped up in that time. I hope we get to see what they choose for season 2!

[sjohnson]

As much as I enjoy the humor, there's not really much to discuss, despite apparently being about such weighty topics as goodness and justice. If souls live forever why do they get graded on such an infinitesimal sliver of time as their earthly lives? Especially given the terrible pressures exerted on them by ignorance, suffering, etc.?

[Blakeston]

On 10/28/2016 at 3:03 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I already knew Adam Scott was going to be appearing a mysterious role, but him as Trevor, I'm guessing the architect of "The Bad Place", is perfect casting.  He's already nailed down the smug, douchebro persona, that I imagine would be the architect of that place, especially opposite of Michael and The Good Place.  I also liked all the glimpses we saw of what The Bad Place brings, which includes selfie sticks, Hawaiian pizza (ugh), viewings of The Bachelor, and a train that has frequent stops for no good reason.  Boo!

I thought they actually did a really good job with telling the flashbacks, in that my reactions were pretty much on pare with Michael, over how much worse and worse it became, the more Eleanor explained what happened.  After mainly seeing her just make lives miserable for normal people, it was refreshing seeing her with a group of friends who were just as bad, if not worse, and it brought out the worst in her as well.

Glad Janet is slowly getting better, but the cactus gag was making me laugh like a loon.  Michael/Ted Danson's exasperation each time it happened was perfect!

Not surprised that Tahani was all pissed off at Eleanor for this "betrayal", but I figured that on some levels, she actually didn't want her to go.  Equally not surprised that Jason would be a doofus, and cut himself on a cactus.  Classic Jason!

So, now the Other Eleanor has entered into the picture.  I have to think this will cause some complications, especially since she is the one who is actually suppose to be Chidi's soulmate, according to the so-called rules of The Good Place.  What is going to happen, now?!

The only thing Eleanor did in the flashback that bothered me was letting the dry cleaner take the fall for the torn dress. Otherwise, I thought most of her actions were pretty justifiable - the roommate deserved everything that happened to her, and worse. (Although it would have been nice for Eleanor to funnel some of the money to the dry cleaner.)

23 hours ago, theatremouse said:

 

I interpreted that scene differently, especially because the cube refrained from turning colors at all. I took it as Tahani really genuinely wasn't sure, and what was currently on her mind was indeed all the things that seemed to suggest Eleanor should be sent to the bad place, but that somehow, despite not being able to come up with reasons otherwise, she wasn't entirely convinced.

The way I took it was that the box didn't change color because she refrained from actually making a statement one way or the other.

[AdorkableSars]

On 10/28/2016 at 0:22 AM, Marley said:

I love Adam Scott so Trevor was cracking me up with everything. Even when he got off the train and kicked the chair. Lol!

I don't know how I feel about real Eleanor. Kind of a buzzkill she's been tortured for no reason.

Lol at vanity plates and watching the bachelor getting you sent to the bad place.

And also taking off your socks and shoes on an airplane. That is pretty despicable.

On 10/28/2016 at 3:41 AM, nosleepforme said:

Adam Scott was good in the role. Though I will always prefer him as Ben. He must be happy to finally play "crazy" after having been the straight man on Parks for so long.

Trevor kind of reminds me of the character that Adam played in "Stepbrothers", Derek. I freaking adore Adam Scott. He can do no wrong in my books. He is hilarious and beautiful. 

On 10/28/2016 at 1:46 PM, crashdown said:

The new Eleanor looks notably younger than our Eleanor.  I'm thinking that the mistake came about because of the lie our Eleanor routinely told about her age--that she was born in 1986 rather than 1982.  New Eleanor probably WAS born in 1986.

Good point! I never even thought about that.

[Jack Kerouac]

"This is the Bad Place. What's up, dummy?"

And of course, kicking over the chair for absolutely no reason. Just awesome. I REALLY want to see the Bad Place now. REALLY.

[DeLurker]

2 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

I REALLY want to see the Bad Place now

I would watch that!

[Texasmom1970]

On 10/28/2016 at 4:41 AM, nosleepforme said:

Jason continues to crack me up with everything he's given, even if he just smiles into the camera. The actor is fantastic. He's my favorite.

Me too, I said the same thing last episode. I died when he was sitting there enthralled by his flip flops. And then Eleanor called him Bone Head Jones!

Then the look on his face when the cactus pricked him, priceless.

[bros402]

Only Janet can operate the train, right?

I want to see Bad Janet.

[stillshimpy]

Well, now I'm more convinced than ever that this is a testing ground.  It's been bugging me for kind of a long time that Michael showed Eleanor  alleged-other-Eleanor's memories but there's such a huge problem with that:  how the heck long does anyone go without being around some kind of mirror?  Go to the bathroom, washing your hands: mirror.  Get ready for bed at night: bathroom mirror.  Clearly, even a vanity-free person is going to be around mirrors and reflective surfaces, right?  So the entire "mistaken memories and misidentification caused this problem" would mean that someone on the afterlife side only ever managed to see enough of Allegedly-Real-Eleanor's life to know that she likes minimalist furnishing, clown paintings and has some random fear of stairs, or something, to account for that bed-ledge.   

I'm not sure where they are going with the story.  They've been very clever along the way, so who knows, maybe they will have a good explanation for all of that.  At the moment, it's not really tracking though.  Including Trevor about to pull out of the Good Place station swith Alledged Eleanor still on board.  

Also, since Trevor's Bad Place sounds really irritating, vs. torturous I'm wondering if The Bad Place is just the place where nothing goes well, vs. everything is agonizing?  

I actually took Tahani's uncertain musings about Eleanor to be more about Tahani's stuff than Eleanor.  

If nothing else, I'm really looking forward to watching both Adam Scott and Ted Danson have fun with their roles. It almost goes without saying that the same thing goes for Kristen Bell.  It's just delightful to watch overall. 

The things Eleanor did on Earth were really more about being self-involved to a new level but if anything her flashback really proved that her roommate was a thoroughly awful human being.  Ruining someone's life and taking away their livelihood over a ripped dress?  Jeez, whereas everything Eleanor did was bad, the roommate was just being vicious.  

Edited October 30, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Wandering Snark]

My guess is that Trevor knew it was Michael's first community and swapped Eleanors on him to mess with him/make him look bad. He then brought out the 'real' Eleanor to continue making him look bad to other people. I'm also on board with the thought that these are both in the middle somewhere. It's the "good" place not the "great" place and it's the "bad" place not the "horrible" place given what the Retirement Place is like they would be much more extreme at the reallly bad place.

[Miles]

I laughed constantly throughout this episode. Good stuff.

[sjankis630]

Quote

Have you ever watched The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, or The Bachelor in Paradise; or have you ever gone online and expressed an emotional investment in any of those shows? Have you ever owned a vanity plate?" OMG, I was cracking up at the questions to determine whether or not you're a bad person. It's like I wrote them myself. (Sorry, Bachelor fans.)

I too thought this was funny. I also liked when Trevor told Eleanor that she should smile more.

[theatremouse]

On 10/30/2016 at 11:07 AM, stillshimpy said:

how the heck long does anyone go without being around some kind of mirror?  Go to the bathroom, washing your hands: mirror.  Get ready for bed at night: bathroom mirror.  Clearly, even a vanity-free person is going to be around mirrors and reflective surfaces, right?  So the entire "mistaken memories and misidentification caused this problem" would mean that someone on the afterlife side only ever managed to see enough of Allegedly-Real-Eleanor's life to know that she likes minimalist furnishing, clown paintings and has some random fear of stairs, or something, to account for that bed-ledge.  

If the replay memories are only those which resulted in "good points" (because apparently as long as you have cumulative enough "good" to outweigh any bad, then other than vanity plates and caring about The Bachelor, any badness can be outweighed by enough good), then the mirror issue is smaller since, sure, one spends boatloads of time in front of a mirror, but how likely is it you did something especially good for the universe in front of a mirror. Most mirror time is probably neutral.

I'm not necessarily wed to the theory I'm stating above, just that it's an easy enough out for this to not necessarily be either a plot hole or a clue.

[stillshimpy]

Or it's that Michael didn't actually watch the memories, that it's just a snippet pulled to help acclimate people?  I guess that could also work as an explanation.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

If our Eleanor has learned to be a better person has the other Eleanor learned to be a badder person?

Maybe, but isn't that really beside the point? Theoretically, it's what each Eleanor did when they were alive that determines whether they go to the Bad place or the Good place. What they do after they get there should be irrelevant. 

[Cowgirl]

On 10/30/2016 at 0:27 AM, bros402 said:

 

Only Janet can operate the train, right?
I want to see Bad Janet.

 

Ooooh...so do I!!

[cpcathy]

I think the cactus back and forth was my favorite thing about the episode, I had to go back and rewatch.

[Jack Kerouac]

10 hours ago, sjankis630 said:

I too thought this was funny. I also liked when Trevor told Eleanor that she should smile more.

Considering that was one of the ways to lose points shown to us in the first episode, it was a great call back.

[jumper sage]

On 10/31/2016 at 0:16 AM, Wandering Snark said:

My guess is that Trevor knew it was Michael's first community and swapped Eleanors on him to mess with him/make him look bad. He then brought out the 'real' Eleanor to continue making him look bad to other people. I'm also on board with the thought that these are both in the middle somewhere. It's the "good" place not the "great" place and it's the "bad" place not the "horrible" place given what the Retirement Place is like they would be much more extreme at the reallly bad place.

I am kind of with you on this theory.  My theories:

• This is purgatory
• Eleanor is in a coma and dreaming this

Love the show.  Love Ted Danson and really all the actors are very good.  I loved the list in the interview.  So funny and so true.  Getting involved in the relationships of contestants on the Bachelor or any other spin-off - hilarious.  I watch for the snark and don't really believe in any of the relationships.  Love the monk, just love him.

I can see this going on for years.  We have the problem of the monk, the ethics guy and his accidental killing of Janet.  I think Tahini is also not who she pretends to be.

[Jack Kerouac]

3 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I think Tahini is also not who she pretends to be.

Well, we know at least that Anderson Cooper finds her very relaxing and asked her to co-host his show.

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, Jack Kerouac said:

Well, we know at least that Anderson Cooper finds her very relaxing and asked her to co-host his show.

In real life?  Did I miss it on the show?

[theatremouse]

35 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

In real life?  Did I miss it on the show?

She said it in the show, with the glowey cube on the Michael's desk, which promptly turned green. Ergo, it's true in show-universe. Ergo, she's probably not full of shit.

[justjoan]

On 10/31/2016 at 0:16 AM, Wandering Snark said:

My guess is that Trevor knew it was Michael's first community and swapped Eleanors on him to mess with him/make him look bad.

Jason was the first mistake, though, not Eleanor (that we know of. Maybe there's someone else wrong out there, keeping quiet until the season finale). Maybe Jason was so busy being silent and dumb that he didn't cause big enough waves, requiring a more disruptive switched person? Trevor doesn't really strike me as patient enough to make two attempts at subtle sabotage, though. He's such a perfect douchecanoe, good lord. I hissed when he told Eleanor to smile more.

I appreciated how carefully worded Michael and Eleanor's finale exchange in his office was, when he asked if she felt she belonged in the Good Place, she said no, and the lie-detecting box backed her up. No hands shall be tipped as to what the universe thinks about her status, just what Eleanor thinks.

My favorite joke in the episode was the growing herd of cacti every time we saw Michael's office. So many off-screen cactus arrivals!

[Phishbulb]

I actually like and prefer Hawaiian pizza. Does this mean I wouldn't find the Bad Place all that bad? :)

[Lawgiver]

2 hours ago, Phishbulb said:

I actually like and prefer Hawaiian pizza. Does this mean I wouldn't find the Bad Place all that bad? :)

(Same)

[RachelKM]

2 hours ago, Phishbulb said:

I actually like and prefer Hawaiian pizza. Does this mean I wouldn't find the Bad Place all that bad? :)

34 minutes ago, Lawgiver said:

(Same)

I don't like pineapple on pizza myself; but I cannot say that I find it more worthy of the Bad Place than an obsession with clowns.... But then, I'm a Yankees fan, so I guess if it does send you both south, I'll see you there :) 

[hertolo]

On 28.10.2016 at 8:39 AM, MadyGirl1987 said:

That was hilarious! I was actually expecting the joke to end differently. I was thinking it was going to subvert expectations and actually have Janet have the real file.

Actually, no, going on with the cactus joke was perfect. I would even have gone further and had the first file handed over by Janet be full of drawings of cacti. They could have spun that further :)

Great Episode all over.

[Mabinogia]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 6:24 PM, AdorkableSars said:

And also taking off your socks and shoes on an airplane. That is pretty despicable.

I just few cross country, the woman next to me took of her shoes and socks!!!! I about died laughing as I imagined her going straight to the Bad Place. Evil, she was pure evil!

[CletusMusashi]

I didn't enjoy the episode before this as much as usual (good plot progression, but just a little too serious in tone) but it looks like the show is more than back on track. Things are still moving forward, and it was funny as hell. Even little background things, like Michael's cube busting him on his white lies.

Not quite sure how the cactus joke didn't get old, but somehow it just stayed hilarious. Over and over and over again.

[Wandering Snark]

I just wanted to mention that I was laughing just thinking of this episode when PTV posted:

Quote

Also many types of content are being reindexed so the following may happen for the next 24 hours until it is finished:

• search results incomplete

Made me think of the rebooting Janet and her cactii.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Wandering Snark

[Wandering Snark]

Too funny... they released and update today:

Quote

Update: there's more indexes than usually to reindex this time around so my usual guess of 24 hours was quite a bit off. It reindexes things from most to least recent now (helpful) but there's so many posts/likes/pieces of data on the forums (not helpful) that the process is going to take a few days running the background.

I hope our Janet will be back in order soon and that the PTV headquarters aren't too filled with cactii.

[holly4755]

about the bad place just being annoying - I would have problems with all food turning to spiders in your mouth and flying 4 headed bears every night.  There are some pretty classic more than annoying evil in the bad place. 

[John Potts]

I liked the concept of the Bad Place being more "persistently aggravating" (the temperature rising a degree every time you think it's hot, clown paintings on the walls) than the classical "flaming pit". It reminded me of the Devil in (the cancelled too soon) Brimstone who just seemed to want to make his "charges'" lives that little bit worse wherever possible.

On ‎28‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 10:16 PM, theatremouse said:

I took it as Tahani really genuinely wasn't sure, and what was currently on her mind was indeed all the things that seemed to suggest Eleanor should be sent to the bad place, but that somehow, despite not being able to come up with reasons otherwise, she wasn't entirely convinced.

Given what we've seen of Tahini, she seems like the sort of person who always wants to be seen as saying the right thing. She seemed genuinely uncertain what Michael wanted her to say and so avoided saying anything (so nothing was actually true or false).

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:10 PM, Phishbulb said:

I actually like and prefer Hawaiian pizza.

Me too! It's not like it was anchovy pizza...

[aradia22]

I love Janet. A lot of this show doesn't make me laugh but she always does.

Ted Danson playing off a mute Jianyu was genius. Comedic brilliance.

"11 Bicycles that look like 8 Cats" "Tom Hiddleston ate a 3 bean salad and it's nothing"

An actual train? They're not skimping on the production values.

Adam Scott is the leader of the Bad Place? I love it. Is the one girl with the glasses on her head Jackie Tohn? I haven't seen her since Platinum Hit but she's been popping up lately.

This show knows how to end an episode. That last minute reveal of the other Eleanor was great. Though it doesn't explain Jason vs. Jianyu if it was just a confusion over names.

[supposebly]

All I'm wondering is what is wrong with seeing the Red Hot Chili Peppers?

[Paloma]

I'm rewatching the series now on Netflix and getting even more out of it this time since I can pause and "rewind." One thing that no one has mentioned, and that I did not notice the first time I watched the episode, is that one of the women getting off the train with Trevor looked like Tahani's sister. Did anyone else notice this? Given what we've seen in flashbacks, I would not be surprised if Tahani's sister was in the Bad Place. ETA: Sorry, my first impression was based on only a partial look at her face, but there was something about her hair and outfit that reminded me of how Tahani's sister looked in the flashbacks. Apparently I was wrong in that impression. 

Also, what happened to all the women who got off the train with Trevor? When he got back on with "our" Eleanor, they did not get back on with him. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Paloma
Changed my mind.

[Virtual]

I’m not sure what was funnier, Janet handing Michael a cactus when she said that she for sure had Eleanor’s file or that woman* behind Trevor laughing when he said no one will believe what a woman says.

*We find out later on that the 4 main characters were actually in the Bad Place disguised as a place of paradise, and that the other residents were demons, but upon first watch it is ironically funny.