Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[Guest]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But by not voting at all instead of voting for Hillary, they're giving weight to Trump votes, so it's an implicit vote for Trump. 

My problem with Trump voters, and perhaps especially the awesome ones, is that justifying a vote for him just can't stand up to real scrutiny.  We're electing a person based on promises, which is how the system works, and you can't believe a word that comes out of that man's mouth.  So how can you vote for those promises?

Of course their reasons for voting for Trump won't hold up to scrutiny. But I guess to them, all lifelong Republicans, they've got to adopt some pretzel logic to supporting that clown. Most of it is boils down to the imaginary crimes of Hillary Clinton and the other to a steady dose of Fox News watching. They're not bad people -- they're good people who accept bad information because they've conditioned to do so by alleged news sources (including Facebook memes). 

I kind of look at it this way: if Trump won the Democratic nomination (insane, I know, bear with me) and was running against Jeb Bush, I'd have to do a whole lot of soul searching about who I'd cast my vote for. I've never voted for a Republican president (or a Republican anything else, really), but in that doomsday scenario, I wonder what my own choice would be. 

[Padma]

8 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Of course their reasons for voting for Trump won't hold up to scrutiny. But I guess to them, all lifelong Republicans, they've got to adopt some pretzel logic to supporting that clown. Most of it is boils down to the imaginary crimes of Hillary Clinton and the other to a steady dose of Fox News watching. They're not bad people -- they're good people who accept bad information because they've conditioned to do so by alleged news sources (including Facebook memes). 

I kind of look at it this way: if Trump won the Democratic nomination (insane, I know, bear with me) and was running against Jeb Bush, I'd have to do a whole lot of soul searching about who I'd cast my vote for. I've never voted for a Republican president (or a Republican anything else, really), but in that doomsday scenario, I wonder what my own choice would be. 

Trump (the Democrat--yikes!) v. Bush?   I don't know how that would be an issue. Then again, I don't see ANY reason to think Donald Trump should be President of the United States--knowledge...experience...commitment...intellect...compassion...temperament.... Seriously, I'm no Jeb Bush fan and he'd lead the country in the opposite direction on nearly every issue from what I want, but I can check off all of those for him, to some degree, and none at all for Trump. 

Maybe I'm missing the point, but in such an extreme situation, where one candidate has absolutely NO qualifications (and lots of "corruption baggage", too), I can't imagine how party affiliation could continue to matter.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Padma

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

I kind of look at it this way: if Trump won the Democratic nomination (insane, I know, bear with me) and was running against Jeb Bush, I'd have to do a whole lot of soul searching about who I'd cast my vote for. I've never voted for a Republican president (or a Republican anything else, really), but in that doomsday scenario, I wonder what my own choice would be. 

Excellent point.  Off the top of my head, I'd say that Jeb was less of an existential threat to the United States (or the world, to be honest), but then I think about what his brother did to the Middle East and I'm not so sure.  At least with Jeb he might have less of an ego about achieving the presidency, riding on so many coat-tails.

So I understand your point about Republican voters, but I still can't forgive them for putting solely their own interests or their hatred for someone ahead of our country.  And I'm not even particularly patriotic.

ETA:

Quote

How can people support a man who is so incapable of learning? 

Because learning is a suspicious activity, performed by the elites.  They want nothing to do with it.

Edited October 25, 2016 by StatisticalOutlier

[candall]

This just in!

I'm staring right now at someone holding up a professionally printed sign, right behind Donald's head during his Florida speech, that says:

LGBTQs *4* TRUMP   Make America Great Again!

 

WTF?

 

But I must note that the next sign--BLACKS FOR TRUMP--is being held by a white woman.  And that the next person--no sign--is wearing a doctor coat with a stethoscope around his neck.  ("I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV.")

[MulletorHater]

1 hour ago, Padma said:

Kromm: Those were interesting videos, particularly the first. I'm guessing that many of his supporters don't actually know much about issues or current events or how government works and are responding emotionally to him, because he is an extremely emotional speaker.  Even the Hillary-hatred isn't based on facts, its appealing to emotion.

As for the African American video (a Trump campaign ad, right?) I wish they could read the memories of some who have worked with him. Everyone agrees he's a bigot. Trump's Plaza Hotel president even quoted him in his book "Trumped!", that he "doesn't want black guys handling my money. I want guys with skull caps (yarmulkes) handling my money."

Even after people correct him he doesn't change. A Native American told him "Pocohontas" was offensive. He immediately used it again--and again.  Many told him that stereotyping all African Americans as living in inner city hell holes "with no education and no good housing and everywhere you go you get shot" was untrue--only about 20% live in poverty in inner cities (as do many whites).  He still says it.

How can people support a man who is so incapable of learning?  You can see it throughout this campaign. He's very shrewd, very calculating and very manipulative, but he's just not very smart.

The appeal to emotionalism reminds me of the old news reels of Adolf Hitler marching through the streets amid throngs of adoring and cheering crowds.  Of particular note were some of the women who sobbed, waved and cheered rapturously as their fuehrer walked by.

It's more of the same with Drumpf.  His adoring fans see what they want to see.  They see a celebrity whom they watched on television for years.  They see a self-made man while ignoring that he received multi-million-dollar loans from his father, as well as millions of dollars in tax abatements from NYC.  They railed against Michelle Obama because she was wearing a sleeveless dress in her official portrait.  Yet, they don't think twice about Melania Trump's nude pictures, padded resume and defense of her husband's lechery.  President Clinton was rightfully called out as a womanizing man-whore.  Yet, Drumpf's accusers are not only looking for a payday, but his fans don't care that he sexually assaulted a few of them after he married Melania.  We need a man who know show to run a business to get things done.  Yet, Drumpf's business record is replete with failures, bankruptcies and outright fraud.  As an aside, take a look at Michigan, Kansas and Florida to get a sense of what happens when businessmen think they can run a government.  Secretary Clinton is a crooked liar and an aura of sleaze covers her perfectly coiffed hair.  Meanwhile, every time Drumpf opens his plagued mouth, the fact checkers have to get busy.

And, of course, my favorite is that the evangelical right embraces him despite the fact that he in no way embodies the values of the book they claim to read.

At this point, even if Drumpf became like the fictional Lonesome Rhodes from the movie, A Face in the Crowd, and actually had a hot mic moment where he told the truth about what he really thought of his followers and how he would keep manipulating them, I suspect that Drumpf's fans are so far gone, they would still support him.  They would refuse to see the utter contempt in which he holds them and how he has shrewdly manipulated their emotions to get what he wants.

Edited October 25, 2016 by MulletorHater

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Padma said:

Maybe I'm missing the point, but in such an extreme situation, where one candidate has absolutely NO qualifications (and lots of "corruption baggage", too), I can't imagine how party affiliation could continue to matter.

Two words: Supreme Court. I couldn't abide that I cast a vote for a guy who'd put another Scalia/Thomas/Alito on the bench. I just...couldn't. Not that I would vote for Trump either -- so I guess it makes sense to my imaginary conscience that I'd sit the vote out. Frankly, it turns my stomach just thinking about that decision! 

 

10 minutes ago, candall said:

LGBTQs *4* TRUMP   Make America Great Again!

How about that fake doctor behind him -- who wore his lab coat and brought his stethoscope with him! LOL

And by the way, here's Trump, a man of such sound Conservative principles, in 2008:

[Padma]

I thought I knew a fair amount about Trump's seamy side, but I didn't know about this. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/24/inside-donald-trump-s-one-stop-parties-attendees-recall-cocaine-and-very-young-models.html

Dean's speculation about cocaine keep coming back, don't they.  The energy, the gradiosity, the sex, the status of the drug itself....I know he says he doesn't use drugs or alcohol, but he lies, so who knows? (Also, he banned cigarettes from the club "because he hates them" but cocaine and booze were fine.)  Also makes sense when Howard Stern talked about Ivanka in crude terms and Trump was okay with it, also okay with her joining that seedy modeling world at 15.  He's just lucky she creates so much better an impression than her brothers and kind of single-handedly carries the family image.  (I don't actually believe her image anymore, but she does it very well.)

[Kromm]

18 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Two words: Supreme Court.

Bingo. Been saying it for close to a year now. The insane level of Trump's support is largely about the Supreme Court. All those people who sat buy and watched as people celebrated Gay Marriage and saw The End Days and Final Judgement approaching for the planet.

This can't be conveyed enough. The people of that mindset literally think they are in the crucial stages of a Holy War. "Babies being murdered". "Sodomites" spitting in the face of what they consider a holy sacrament.  Even something they've never actually had in this country---their kids being taught the Bible in school--they see as something somehow being taken away from them by evil conspiracies working for the Devil.  Gun ownership they also put religious like fervor into because they've developed a mindset that it's all of one piece with defending the rest. 

[MulletorHater]

56 minutes ago, Padma said:

I thought I knew a fair amount about Trump's seamy side, but I didn't know about this. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/24/inside-donald-trump-s-one-stop-parties-attendees-recall-cocaine-and-very-young-models.html

Dean's speculation about cocaine keep coming back, don't they.  The energy, the gradiosity, the sex, the status of the drug itself....I know he says he doesn't use drugs or alcohol, but he lies, so who knows? (Also, he banned cigarettes from the club "because he hates them" but cocaine and booze were fine.)  Also makes sense when Howard Stern talked about Ivanka in crude terms and Trump was okay with it, also okay with her joining that seedy modeling world at 15.  He's just lucky she creates so much better an impression than her brothers and kind of single-handedly carries the family image.  (I don't actually believe her image anymore, but she does it very well.)

I feel as if I need a bath after reading that article.  I knew that a lot of people were off the hook back then, but ICK!  It sounds as if he was running a prostitution ring.  It's fascinating that he was willing to allow his favorite child to get caught up in that world.

I received this Washington Post alert a few minutes ago.  It seems as if Drumpf is determined to take the GOP down with him and that the honeymoon is over.  Trump Halts Big-Money Fundraising

I wonder if Rancid Preibus is on suicide watch.  If the GOP thought Drumpf was going to be a stand-up guy for the party, it must really sucks to be them right about now.  Even Stevie Wonder could see that this was going to be a marriage made in hell.

[NewDigs]

22 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

I never hear anything about Trump's mother - anybody know anything about her or his relationship with her? Just wondering if this contributes at all to his behavior towards women in particular.

@Padma gave a great overview of her life.

I continue to wonder why, when asked about his mother, at a Town Hall hosted by NBC, he called her "his father's wife". I think more than once. It was very jarring.

And I am not all surprised his Royal Heinous ended up in military school.

Bet his dad was a piece of work.

I'm not familiar with Washingtonian  but the Zakarian lawsuit probably isn't going away soon.

Edited October 25, 2016 by NewDigs
eta padma post link

[Advance35]

Quote

 

I received this Washington Post alert a few minutes ago.  It seems as if Drumpf is determined to take the GOP down with him and that the honeymoon is over.  Trump Halts Big-Money Fundraising

I wonder if Rancid Preibus is on suicide watch.  If the GOP thought Drumpf was going to be a stand-up guy for the party, it must really sucks to be them right about now.  Even Stevie Wonder could see that this was going to be a marriage made in hell.

 

If I make it through all this without having a nervous breakdown I am definitely going to become more informed, in the mean time, can you or someone explain the significance of this?   Could Trump be so confident that he actually thinks he doesn't need any "ground game."   Surely this can't be what ALL of the Republican hopes were pinned on?   

It did leak that the head of the RNC, Preibus, is having a "Members only" National Call with the whole clubhouse.   I assume this is connected.

I still don't trust it, I am stressing to every Anti-Trump person I know to go out and VOTE.  I refuse to become complacent.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Advance35

[Moose135]

12 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Bet his dad was a piece of work.

He was a real sweetheart:  Fred Trump's Coney Island

There was something that separated Fred C. Trump from the average greedy developer. It’s wasn’t the endless scandals that followed his every Coney Island project, and it wasn’t the misappropriation and theft of public funds that seemed to be his business model. Trump’s policy of discrimination in rentals and his political cronyism were just business as usual...

[Padma]

31 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

If I make it through all this without having a nervous breakdown I am definitely going to become more informed, in the mean time, can you or someone explain the significance of this?   Could Trump be so confident that he actually thinks he doesn't need any "ground game."   Surely this can't be what ALL of the Republican hopes were pinned on?   

.

I think this explains it: "the RNC gets only 20 percent of the money that Trump raises online in conjunction with the party, while the vast majority of the big checks contributed to Trump Victory are routed to the party."

That fits his M.O.--to be sure in anything he does, his needs come first. I'm convinced he's planning to spend all he can on his own interests (for example, the $300,000 the Washington Post reported of small donor money used to buy copies of The Art of the Deal--generating about $35k for him in royalties). 

No wonder he's aggressively getting money online but not hiring staff, paying for ground game or for ads. He's thinking ahead and that means "pocketing it" (or, if the AG still has closed down his own foundation, giving it to Erik's, then having him spend it all at Trump locations).  When it comes to money, he's thinking of himself, not of the other GOP candidates.   (Big difference from Hillary who is knocking herself out for the Senate and House candidates around the country). 

[atomationage]

37 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I am stressing to every Anti-Trump person I know to go out and VOTE.

One of my biggest worries this election is that the voter turnout will be so massive that the local officials in many areas will be overwhelmed, and delays in reporting will add to the idea of the election being "rigged" in some way. 

[Landsnark]

So, if there is a whiff of Trump being fraudulent with donations, why isn't every journo and ambitious DA investigating this at breakneck speed?
 
The shitty thing here is that Trump knows that if he did lie, cheat, steal, and break every law... no AG is going to go after him.  It will seem like payback, or retribution.  It will become the manifestation of "get even" politics.  Even though it's what ought to happen.  It will split the country further, and his fucking idiot supporters will add it to their ever-growing list of imaginary grievances. 

[Dresdengirl]

8 hours ago, Nidratime said:

It never occurs to Trump or his rally attendees that he has to *also* get the support of people who can't/won't attend rallies. Not to say that everyone that attends a rally, whether his or anyone else's, has nothing better to do. But, come on! Plenty of people work or have other responsibilities and can't take time off to attend a rally, especially waiting in a line, possibly standing through countless introductory speeches while waiting for the candidate to appear. So, yeah, Donald, your rallies are not the whole electorate. They're not even the whole Republican Party.

And half the people who attend his rallies won't come out to vote. They'll be sitting in their trailer with a 6pack.

[Kromm]

7 minutes ago, Dresdengirl said:

And half the people who attend his rallies won't come out to vote. They'll be sitting in their trailer with a 6pack.

The limiter on his fans is this: they hate and fear the "gubmint" and don't want to be in any kind of database anywhere.  So there will be a portion who refuse to register to vote because of that.

Most people on both sides actually dodge it to avoid Jury Duty. This may be an even stronger force with the Sanders arm of the Dem-leaning people, so a lot of those folks will be avoiding it too.

[ari333]

Can we have a live thread on election night?

also, what are the "key" states? I want to guess Ohio and Florida but I really don't know TIA

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

And by the way, here's Trump, a man of such sound Conservative principles, in 2008:

Holy cow.  I'm no campaign expert so I'm sure there's a downside, but Hillary should run that as an ad.

ETA: They have to edit out the part where Trump said she's a smart woman, of course.  Don't want to alienate the voters you're trying to sway.

Edited October 26, 2016 by StatisticalOutlier

[Pixel]

Regarding the defriending or maintaining friendships with Trump voters - I've said it here before. I've defriended many. At this point, I have my trigger finger on the defriend button. A friend shared some bullshit from The Federalist about abortion with the caption "Why I'll never support Hillary" and boom - she got defriended.  I have zero tolerance anymore for anyone stupid enough to buy into the misinformation.

Another friend is very pro-Hillary, anti-Trump. She has an uncle who is pro-Trump. I enjoy watching her shut him down every single time he comments on her Facebook. She's really good at it.  Today he called Hillary a liar (not for the first time) and then she got him to admit he never checks the factcheckers and doesn't believe them anyway.  It was a thing of beauty to watch her politely tell him to shut the fuck up.

I have no regrets about the defriendings. I'm just sad to find out so many people I know were closet assholes.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Pixel

[Guest]

Speaking of Donald Trump's mother, here she is. She looks like a Gerald Scarfe drawing from Pink Floyd's The Wall come to life.

 

[hoosier80]

4 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

And, of course, my favorite is that the evangelical right embraces him despite the fact that he in no way embodies the values of the book they claim to read.

I was thinking about this yesterday, how or why would supposedly "religious" people vote for him.   I think possibly a large part of that group are also the people who send in money to all the televangelists on tv.  Most of those are eventually found out to be frauds, but people still give them money.  Think of Jim Baaker - he's back on air (I think with a smaller audience/network) but people are watching and sending him money again.  People are looking to someone who is a slick talker, who says oh I can solve all your problems.  Forget the details, they said they'll fix it!

There is someone on tv selling some blessed water (not holy water) but some special water.  Not only has it "cured" people, but there are a couple of folks who said they bought it, and then got checks for thousands of dollars in a matter of days.  Maybe they think Trump will have his own special brand of water, and poof! their problems will just be washed away.  

Every day Trump says something that is factually wrong.  How did this person graduate from Penn?  Small vocabulary, inability to really give a coherent speech, doesn't care to read - how does this gel with an Ivy league graduate?  It does not even seem like he reads anything re: current events, nor does he know how the governmental process is set up to work.  The President does not make laws; Congress does.  True, there's executive orders, but executive orders do not cover everything - by design.  I know I had to sit through a semester of Government in high school, and I've retained the very basics (sometimes refreshing my memory as I need to do so in order to keep up with current events).  There doesn't seem to be one ounce of intellectual curiosity at all, which is pretty disturbing.  How in the world would he even understand a security briefing or understand why some laws or regulations were put in place originally?

[33kaitykaity]

3 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Speaking of Donald Trump's mother, here she is. She looks like a Gerald Scarfe drawing from Pink Floyd's The Wall come to life.

 

Now we know where his hair obsession comes from.  ROTF

[atomationage]

4 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

She looks like a Gerald Scarfe drawing from Pink Floyd's The Wall come to life.

 

Just now, 33kaitykaity said:

Now we know where his hair obsession comes from.  ROTF

You beat me to it. 

[Rapunzel]

5 minutes ago, 33kaitykaity said:

Now we know where his hair obsession comes from.  ROTF

 

4 minutes ago, atomationage said:

You beat me to it. 

I was thinking the exact same thing as well.  :-)

[Moose135]

10 minutes ago, hoosier80 said:

Every day Trump says something that is factually wrong.  How did this person graduate from Penn?  Small vocabulary, inability to really give a coherent speech, doesn't care to read - how does this gel with an Ivy league graduate?

Daddy's money...

[atomationage]

13 minutes ago, hoosier80 said:

Every day Trump says something that is factually wrong.  How did this person graduate from Penn?  Small vocabulary, inability to really give a coherent speech, doesn't care to read - how does this gel with an Ivy league graduate?

Cheated his way through school?  Paid for someone else to take exams and write papers?   Brain damage that came later?  Premature senile dementia?  Some other medical condition for which he won't get treatment?  Side effects from improper or unapproved medical treatment from Dr. Feelgood?    Melania's been slipping something into his food?  

[Rapunzel]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

Daddy's money...

Yep - His degree was just bought and paid for. A man who is so inarticulate and sounds as though he never finished the 5th grade should have never gotten into any college, much less received a degree from an Ivy League School. We know he has this sense of entitlement, so I'm sure he felt it was his right to go to an Ivy League School.

I have colleagues who are starting to look at colleges with their kids, and these kids have taken mostly AP classes, come out of high school with a GPA over 4.0 because of it, are into sports, involved in various other clubs, do volunteer work, etc. and they are having a hard time even getting accepted to a public college here in CA. The admissions criteria are so incredibly stiff these days - and many of their parents have saved and can afford to pay for a public college, but those that may not be able to afford the full cost (especially as the cost on tuition has gone up so much so fast), these gifted kids are having a very difficult time getting scholarships, grants and even loans in many cases because, on paper, their parents make too much money. Also, what is considered "too much money" is an incredibly low number, especially given the cost of living in Southern CA.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Rapunzel

[Padma]

18 minutes ago, 33kaitykaity said:

Now we know where his hair obsession comes from.  ROTF

Aw, that's a very unflattering picture. After all, she's 85 years old there and that angle would look terrible for anyone. (Okay, 0I admit, as a mother with Scottish heritage too, I have a soft spot for Mary MacLeod Trump). Her other children all seem rather nice. I don't think its her fault she had one who turned out to be an (fill in 7 letter word).

But I do agree it's funny to see the exaggerated fake-blond hair style that makes Donald's look just like if he'd come by his weird comb-over and color naturally!

The live chat here really helped with the last debate. Sounds like a great idea for election day--IF the results aren't shocking and depressing!

[Pixel]

I have to say, it does concern me when the only signs I see on lawns are Trump signs. I truly hope this doesn't mean there are closet Trump supporters who don't want to admit to pollsters who they are voting for. I'm in Illinois, but in a smaller rural community, so the heavy mix of Trumpanzees here isn't that surprising.  It is, however, disconcerting. 

The only benefit of the doubt I will give Trump is that maybe he's not a good speaker. He may be good at writing papers and test taking. I can't say for sure. But yeah, probably his dad bought him a degree. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Pixel

[ariel]

3 hours ago, Dresdengirl said:

And half the people who attend his rallies won't come out to vote. They'll be sitting in their trailer with a 6pack.

Or out hunting. Hunting season has begun in many areas. 

[irisheyes]

With as crazy as some of his supporters are, I won't put a Hillary sign out or a magnet on my car. Trump's supporters aren't all crazy, but the ones that are are also dangerous. 

[HumblePi]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

Speaking of Donald Trump's mother, here she is. She looks like a Gerald Scarfe drawing from Pink Floyd's The Wall come to life.

 

That photo triggers some hair-raising questions. Tony Schwartz, the man who spent 14 months with Trump writing his book 'The Art of the Deal' which Trump took credit for, has said in an interview that Donald never got the love he needed as a child. Matter of fact, I'll post an interesting interview with Tony Schwartz from a day ago. He knows Donald Trump better than anyone and he describes a deeply flawed man.

Tony Schwartz interview

http://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/donald-trump-s-ghostwriter-speaks-out-791859267813

[Nidratime]

They look like they can be in the Hunger Games movies.

[atomationage]

From what I've seen, the people that have drumpf bumper stickers have a lot of other scary things that they like too. 

[HumblePi]

5 minutes ago, atomationage said:

From what I've seen, the people that have drumpf bumper stickers have a lot of other scary things that they like too. 

Yes like threatening to kill all of us and overthrow the government in a 'bloodbath' coup.  oh well....

Edited October 26, 2016 by HumblePi

[Pixel]

34 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

With as crazy as some of his supporters are, I won't put a Hillary sign out or a magnet on my car. Trump's supporters aren't all crazy, but the ones that are are also dangerous. 

That's actually a really good point. I can't deny I've been tempted to run over Trump signs in people's yards. I haven't done it because I'm not a miscreant, but the idea has crossed my mind more than once. 

[theredhead77]

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

Most people on both sides actually dodge it to avoid Jury Duty. This may be an even stronger force with the Sanders arm of the Dem-leaning people, so a lot of those folks will be avoiding it too.

This probably belongs in a different thread (please direct me there if it does) but registering to vote is not the only way to get in the jury pool. Drivers license and merely existing are both ways. My mom would always be summonsed for jury duty and, while she was here legally, she was not a citizen. She was a driver, a worker and a property owner. 

[BuckeyeLou]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

Daddy's money...

Its the only explanation!  How the heck did he graduate from the Wharton School of Business when he is so Dumb about the fundamentals of how the Government, and our nation, work?!

[HumblePi]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-book-donor-money_us_580e7b09e4b02444efa4e7c4

[Silver Raven]

5 hours ago, NewDigs said:

Bet his dad was a piece of work.

His Dad was a member of the KKK. He was arrested in New York City wearing Klan garb for rioting against a pro-Mussolini demonstration (because they were anti-Catholic and anti-foreigner).

Woody Guthrie wrote a song critical of "Old Man Trump" for his discrimination against blacks in rentals.  Guthrie was one of his tenants.

[zxy556575]

11 hours ago, Frost said:

I can't categorically condemn a Donald supporter ... There are people who are facing some desperate economic times and are scared and angry.

Statistics indicate that the average Trump supporter is not economically disadvantaged:

"As compared with most Americans, Trump’s voters are better off. The median household income of a Trump voter so far in the primaries is about $72,000, based on estimates derived from exit polls and Census Bureau data. It’s well above the national median household income of about $56,000. It’s also higher than the median income for Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders supporters, which is around $61,000 for both."

The majority of his supporters do feel culturally marginalized and experience increased levels of racial anxiety. "Support for Trump is highest among whites who express ethnocentric viewpoints, score high on measures of authoritarianism, identify strongly as white, and who express negative views of racial minorities." It isn't any more complex than that.

Personally, I can more easily understand their attitudes if I think of them as simply being fearful that their beliefs will no longer matter and their voices no longer be heard because of "others". I don't agree, but am really trying not to hate Trump voters (except for whackjobs calling for murder, etc.). I'd feel VERY angry and ignored if the religious right took over the U.S., so it works both ways.

Edited October 26, 2016 by lordonia

[maraleia]

12 hours ago, random chance said:

I follow him because I want to know what his latest insanity is, not because I'm going to vote for him.

You don't need to follow him though. Just bookmark his feed and read it there that way he doesn't get the numbers. That's how I keep track of his crazy because he thrives on things like how many people follow him on twitter.

Edited October 26, 2016 by maraleia

[HumblePi]

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a49868/trump-tower-what-a-dump/

16 minutes ago, maraleia said:

You don't need to follow him though. Just bookmark his feed and read it there that way he doesn't get the numbers. That's how I keep track of his crazy because he thrives on things like how many people follow him on twitter.

I follow so I can post anti-Trump stuff right on his feed (evil laugh)

[33kaitykaity]

13 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Personally, I can more easily understand their attitudes if I think of them as simply being fearful that their beliefs will no longer matter and their voices no longer be heard because of "others." I don't agree, but am really trying not to hate Trump voters (except for whackjobs calling for murder, etc.) I know I'd feel VERY stifled and ignored if the Religious Right took over the U.S., so it works both ways.

I would be happy to make that distinction as well, except it was Drumpf's open, not-dog-whistle racism that first endeared him to his base, which is still the vast majority of the people who have hung in with him.  I'll have to think more about it, which came first, the fear b/c of economic issues or fear of the "other."  

I did want to compliment the probably undeserved empathy in this idea, though.  Very well done.  )

[BW Manilowe]

On October 24, 2016 at 8:45 PM, partofme said:

I disagree with this, I believe that had Bill Clinton been able to run again in 2000 that he would have won by such a large margin that Bush stealing Florida wouldn't have mattered.   I believe a large part of the reason that Gore didn't win enough swing states despite winning the popular vote that Bush being able to steal Florida(that Gore actually won) mattered is because Gore didn't allow Clinton to campaign for him.  Gore lacked Clinton's charisma.   I believe it was a losing mistake, that had Clinton campaigned for Gore we wouldn't have had to deal with Bush.

Also, perhaps, Gore might've gotten Florida if Dubya's brother Jeb--an "also ran" this primary season--wasn't the Governor of Florida at the time that Presidential election was contested. Just saying.

[abstractstuff]

This election is really something else. Because Trump is so horrible, people are completely ignoring the mountain of Hillary's flagrant corrupt bullshit. 

 

With an a not an e.  

Edited October 26, 2016 by abstractstuff

[tenativelyyours]

A lot of this creature's campaign success has to do with the Republican party.  So part of me is enjoying that in some way even though they do have that equally loathsome creature Pence on hand to make sure a win by that ticket is as hideous as it can get.

I think not only the dog whistle aspects that the Republicans have always pretended to be so subtle using (note- they have not even though a media always tries to sweep it under the rug as soon as the election is over and then acts shocked, shocked I say, when the subtext looms large and clear the next general election).  But also that since Reagan, the Republican party has had a huge success in selling itself as an Aspiring Brand.  McCain, Romney and now this Thing, have all put forth economic plans that when stripped down from the grandiosity are harmful to the working poor and the middle class.  Often hugely harmful.  Yet many of the most devoted voters, all over, are working poor.  The signs in the yards in my area are all in lawns of people that would not live well in a protectionism economy.  That have been impacts by the health care gambles the Republicans have played with their lives and the US economy.  That have seen their jobs and lives affected by the easement in certain areas by Republicans that have seen jobs sent overseas and huge amounts of capital slipped past taxes and even just encouraged re-investment thanks to Republicans.  But somehow these people think that even though they are lucky to even be pressing their noses against the windows of the Republican Wealth Club, that more than likely they would be thrown off the grounds if caught, they will someday still belong.

And along comes the Kevin Trudeau of Politics.  The late night infomercial scammer who promises an even more open and direct call to becoming part of the elite.  The irony being he is the greediest and most self serving one of them all and has not a single moment in his history of truly helping anyone else. 

My real fear and anger at this candidacy is that it has really shit on our system and even if he loses as I hope, it will now take more than a blowup by Clinton to clean it up in even the slightest.  Because ironically, she could win by a landslide and that will only feed into the paranoia and false outrage at having their election stolen (and the media again take a huge part of the blame since they deliberately buy into this whole polling aspect that doesn't really show the true picture because it is better ratings and more money and even just more attention for so many in the media who have pushed themselves into being part of the story instead of just reporting it).

It will take this Creature to not only bring himself down with his actions -- I do think he is capable of an immediate self-destruct like Palin in a lot of ways because his self-interest will not tolerate being pushed aside for attention by a newly elected President and the schill is even stronger in this one than the Quitter in Chief.

But he needs to go and go down in some serious flames and blamed for whatever by his own followers in good part to get our flawed but still until now workable system back on the proper tracks.  Even before Michael Moore's Trumpland movie, I had a horrible thought of how media assholes tend to look at each other and see what works to garner attention and what doesn't.  And even if he loses, he has shown a perfect template for using demagoguery as a means for narcissistic fulfillment with no regards to the cost or even thinking of bearing an ounce of social responsibility.

So you can joke about someone like Kanye West running in 2020 Moore, but this Thing has opened that door.  We are not a reasonable or patient or understanding electorate.  Even if Clinton wins in November, she has a rough term ahead and let's say someone like West needs his ego stroked and has his little feels ruffled in some way?  Thinks how fun and ego stroking it would be to actually run and taps into all those demographics already not thrilled with Clinton (the bit about Black voters on The Daily Show last week was funny and terrifying at the same time).  Plus there is a lot of stupid out there.  His wife/amateur porn concubine is proof of that.  So what is someone like him ego runs?  Just enough to draw off a Clinton now burdened with a simple thing called a Presidential record?  And there we go.  A Bush III/Pence/Cruz/Ryan Presidency. 

Yeah.  Real funny.

Thanks Orange Scrotum.  Long after you are dead, you have likely dumped enough shit on our system of democracy to last longer than any building keeping your surname in big letters over the door.

[BW Manilowe]

On October 24, 2016 at 5:42 PM, NewDigs said:

And I'm bringin' you too!

I think the most horrifying, so far, Trump behavior was reported by Ivana.

The less graphic part:

'Ivana Trump’s assertion of “rape” came in a deposition—part of the early ’90s divorce case between the Trumps, and revealed in the 1993 book Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J. Trump.

The book, by former Texas Monthly and Newsweek reporter Harry Hurt III, described a harrowing scene. After a painful scalp reduction surgery to remove a bald spot, Donald Trump confronted his then-wife, who had previously used the same plastic surgeon.

“Your fucking doctor has ruined me!” Trump cried.

What followed was a “violent assault,” according to Lost Tycoon. Donald held back Ivana’s arms and began to pull out fistfuls of hair from her scalp, as if to mirror the pain he felt from his own operation. He tore off her clothes and unzipped his pants. ...'

Since he was married to Ivana at the time, somebody probably would've believed him/been "influenced" to believe him if he described what he did to Ivana in terms of "normal" marital sex he was "entitled" (there's that word again) to, instead of rape. I'm not sure if the concept of "marital rape" had entered the "zeitgeist", as they say, at that point in time.

[Kitty Redstone]

With all the talk of how vindictive, mean and/or violent Donald gets when he loses, I hope Melania has consulted with Katie Holmes and formulated an escape plan for her and her son.

9 hours ago, Padma said:

I know he says he doesn't use drugs or alcohol, but he lies, so who knows? (Also, he banned cigarettes from the club "because he hates them" but cocaine and booze were fine.) 

Well, to be fair, cigarette smoke does really stink.

7 hours ago, Moose135 said:

He was a real sweetheart:  Fred Trump's Coney Island

Lawrence O'Donnell made a throwaway line tonight that a good bit of the Trump family wealth came from stealing from the public.  I knew Fred was likely a member of the KKK and had been sued for discrimination by the government, but did not know anything about the Coney Island stuff.  It is a real eye-opener and it's no wonder Donald is the way he is.  Psychos, the both of them.

23 minutes ago, tenativelyyours said:

A lot of this creature's campaign success has to do with the Republican party.  So part of me is enjoying that in some way even though they do have that equally loathsome creature Pence on hand to make sure a win by that ticket is as hideous as it can get.

The Republicans do indeed need to take responsibility for Donald.  I hope they begin by publicly humiliating and excommunicating Pence, Newt Gingrich (the other white-haired douche in the campaign) and Ghoul Rudy from the party.