Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[tenativelyyours]

I work and am related to many right-leaning Europeans of British, French and Swiss nationality and even the ones that mutter "Muslim" when they have had a few too many at family gatherings (they know the wrath of the many will descend if they do more than mutter as last New Year's attested) think that this creature is poised to possibly become President appalls them.  As much as they scorn and mock and sneer at "America" there is also a sense that the broadness of the nation and its people sort of serves as a buffer from this type of shit happening.  Its also why some of the numbers crunchers are just baffled that we still have an electoral college after 2000.  The idea that Clinton could win the popular vote but have it come down to the House if there was a tie in the electoral college simply fascinates them in (quote here) "the same horror and breath stopping disbelief of watching the Twin Towers fall before my eyes".

I know plenty of Tories at work in our City offices that flirt with UKIP ideas (even the slightest fantasy threat to their entitlement sends them on a tit of rage these days) who cannot parse that while ours is bigger and worse, he is still Farage 2.0 in many ways.

[Grommet]

19 minutes ago, Bunky1412 said:

In the case of The Arizona Republic, it could be Republicans/pro-Trumps behind it because they're pi**ed off at their, The Arizona Republic's, endorsement of Hillary Clinton, but it could also be Democrats behind it in attempt to make Republicans/pro-Trumps look bad. 

Oh, puh-leeze.  The vitriol those journalists and staff have endured is real, not some sort of fake out by Dems. Suggesting otherwise diminishes the seriousness of the threats they face. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Grommet
Weird auto correct

[car54]

Twitter reporting that Trump has invited President Obama's half brother to the debate.   Evidently he's a Trump supporter.

Does Trump know how this works?   I'm not sure how it's going to benefit him in the debate if he bugs Obama--and we saw that bringing surprise guests didn't phase Hillary.

[starri]

"Big deal, I'm made of steel, this is nothing.  Hi, girls!"

[Rapunzel]

25 minutes ago, car54 said:

Twitter reporting that Trump has invited President Obama's half brother to the debate.   Evidently he's a Trump supporter.

Does Trump know how this works?   I'm not sure how it's going to benefit him in the debate if he bugs Obama--and we saw that bringing surprise guests didn't phase Hillary.

This man is just flat out stupid when it comes to politics, policy, diplomacy, making disgusting, derogatory statements about women without caring that he's wearing a mic or around witnesses, business, etc. The list just goes on and on as to how ignorant he is on damn near everything. How does it matter even remotely if he invites a popular President's half-brother, a President who was elected not once, but twice in this Country so therefore can't run again and that he isn't debating against, make any real impact at all on Hillary's campaign? I'm also sure Hillary could find a relative of Trump's somewhere who is for her and against him to sit in the audience as well if she really wanted, but again, what would be the point?

The same basically applied when he had some of Bill's "women" in the audience at the last debate - Bill isn't running, and it didn't rattle Hillary in the least. I'm pretty sure Hillary is well aware of any affairs Bill has had over the years and they've decided to handle whatever issues they have in their marriage in their own way.

Now if Hillary were to bring in every woman that Trump has assaulted or made disgusting, derogatory, insulting comments against, well, that would fill up the entire debate venue. I would love to hear the questions they would ask if this one is a Town Hall format (not sure which it is).

I think the "When They Go Low, We Go High" slogan for Hillary is a good principle in life, however, I still wish they would take more advantage of some of these huge softballs just being lobed at them by the Trump campaign and really knock them out of the park. At this point, she needs to start coming down a bit harder on him on so many of these idiotic things he has said and done. She does not have to drag it to the gutter by any means, just call him out more and watch him flounder around or try to lie his way out of it and then bring up the fact that he likely has said something exactly opposite previously.

13 minutes ago, starri said:

"Big deal, I'm made of steel, this is nothing.  Hi, girls!"                                                                                     v

Loved this from the SNL skit!

Edited October 18, 2016 by Rapunzel

[33kaitykaity]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

oop

Edited October 18, 2016 by 33kaitykaity
can't get rid of the quote box, grr.

[formerlyfreedom]

@33kaitykaity; click this box when you hover over the quote, and it will remove the box.

[starri]

A People's History of Donald Trump's Business Busts and Countless Victims, by Kurt Eichenwald.

If anyone remembers the blistering Rolling Stone takedown of McCain, "Make Believe Maverick," this may be this election's answer to that.

[Padma]

Quote

 

Yes, its very irritating how they're always talking to or about people at Trump rallies. I actually haven't seen ANY interviews with Hillary supporters and they barely show her rallies at all unless she's talking about Trump. And yet he keeps on whining abut the "discrimination" of the media with the rigged system against him! He is STILL eating up air time more than Hillary--just like he did in the primaries! It's infuriating, even on MSNBC.

Also, is anyone else's browser acting odd in this thread? For a couple of days, mine scrolls while I try to read or to type. Not saying it's a wikileaks hack or anything, but it does make you wonder.....

[backformore]

Bunky -   I am confused by your posts.   You want to criticize what people are saying, how they are expressing their opinions.   Can you add YOUR opinion of Donald Trump?  He is the topic, and your posts are making the posters and how we express our opinions the topic.   While many of us, myself included, are using this thread to vent some anger and frustration over his candidacy, there are also some really good points being made.  Do you support him?  do you think he'd be a good president? what are your thoughts on the sexual abuse allegations?    If you engage in the discussion, we can all learn something.  But if you're just here to criticize others' opinions, without offering your own, then you might be ignored. 

[Rapunzel]

14 minutes ago, Padma said:

Also, is anyone else's browser acting odd in this thread? For a couple of days, mine scrolls while I try to read or to type. Not saying it's a wikileaks hack or anything, but it does make you wonder.....

I've had that issue as well as another Padma. On a few occasions now, I've typed my response in and gone to hit the "Submit Reply" button and absolutely nothing happens. I try this a couple times, and still nothing. I end up having to cut and paste my post into Word or something to save the content, then either refresh the page or, in some cases, exit the previously.tv site altogether and then go back into the page I wanted to post on and move my content from Word back in. After I do that, then it seems to take.

Also agree with the airtime issue. How can Trump claim the media is helping 'crooked Hillary' rig the election when they spend so much more time on him and his idiot minions?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Rapunzel

[Kromm]

2 minutes ago, Rapunzel said:

I've had that issue as well as another Padma. On a few occasions now, I've typed my response in and gone to hit the "Submit Reply" button and absolutely nothing happens. I try this a couple times, and still nothing. I end up having to cut and paste my post into Word or something to save the content, then either refresh the page or, in some cases, exit the previously.tv site altogether and then go back into the page I wanted to post on and move my content from Word back in. After I do that, then it seems to take.

Tell David T. Cole. He's had trouble pinning down this problem and until today only thought it was happening to one person:

Go here:

[Rapunzel]

1 minute ago, Kromm said:

Tell David T. Cole. He's had trouble pinning down this problem and until today only thought it was happening to one person:

Go here:

Thanks Kromm!

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Bunky1412 said:

I believe we're on the same page here, but it seemed like your knee-jerk response was to blame the Republicans for it without even considering the Democrats might be behind it.  In either case, whoever is responsible, it's unacceptable and I hope they're caught. 

You seem to be concatenating "The Republicans" with "Trump supporters". I've spent considerable time saying I believe those are no longer the same thing.

Like Trump himself, many of his supporters have stopped being representatives of that party. Trump himself, as dim as he can seem, isn't going to go bomb places, but it's pretty conceivable that his habit of justifying almost anything towards his ends is contagious. 

Could it be rogue Democrats? Sure. But there's little to gain for Dems in Arizona by doing this. There really isn't a win here, because they'd made such headway there that this can only chip away at it. They have a shallow obvious motive, but a deeper look makes it look really threadbare.

[Padma]

12 minutes ago, backformore said:

Bunky -   I am confused by your posts.   You want to criticize what people are saying, how they are expressing their opinions.   Can you add YOUR opinion of Donald Trump?  He is the topic, and your posts are making the posters and how we express our opinions the topic.   . 

I was thinking the same.  Or even if Bunky feels there's so much hatred directed at Republicans in general (compared with what I thought--at Trump and his supporters--and I wouldn't call it hatred, but MMV, I'm probably getting close :( ) then quote a post that shows that. Because I don't see it.

1 hour ago, Bunky1412 said:

I don't believe I said it was a "fake-out, nor did I say the threats weren't real, so I'm not even sure what you mean by that.  I believe the death threats are most definitely happening.  It's been suggested that the Republicans were behind the fire-bombing of their own headquarters, so it goes both ways.  I think it's doubtful, but even I, as a Republican, am willing to consider it as a possibility until I know for sure.      

The problem is there's a historic precedent (as someone posted earlier) for rightwingers to stage a fake attack like that and blame it on the left as a pretense for taking "aggressive action" against their political opponents. Framing someone for firebombing the Republican headquarters isn't hard to imagine. And then there's Trump himself, immediately pointing blame at the "animals" who he thinks "support Hillary" and are guilty.  No evidence at all of any of that--so irresponsible. So perfect for a right wing authoritarian leader.

As for the AZ Republic death threats, the logic of Democrats doing that eludes me because you wouldn't even know if it would be widely reported (to "make Reps look bad")   I'm trying to picture, as a liberal trying to help my cause, phoning the editor of a newspaper who just endorsed my candidate in a very brave and well written argument, and making a death threat against him in the hope it would backfire on Republicans. (Not to mention the criminal risk involved.)

Nope. Can't imagine how or why any Democrat would think that would be a worthwhile risk (not to mention the possible added negative effect of discouraging other Republican papers from taking a similar risk to endorse her). Really, it makes no sense.  Firebombing the Reichstag though? There's a reason that worked.

[junemeatcleaver]

2 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

I agree, and think it boils down to conservative votes being more likely to vote based on one or two issues (taxes, abortion) at the expense of everything else

Don't forget about guns.

Donald Trump is a dangerous idiot and the Republican leadership should be ashamed of endorsing him.  And for what?  A few more votes?  What are they going to do after the party has alienated everyone except an increasingly shrinking sliver of the electorate?

[ClareWalks]

@Bunky1412 I am sorry you feel attacked, either on this thread or offline. I do agree with others who have said that there is a distinction between Republicans and Trump fans. Donald Trump is not an actual Republican and his supporters are generally not actual Republicans because of it. Note: I am recognizing here that not everyone is voting for Trump because they LIKE him. I consider "Trump supporter" to mean "I like Donald Trump and that's why he gets my vote." I've said before in this thread that I was a registered Republican until a few weeks ago (when I renewed my driver's license and changed to No Party), and I don't feel the vitriol towards Republicans or conservatives in general from here. I think a lot of folks just HATE The Donald, and need an outlet :)

[millennium]

52 minutes ago, Padma said:

Yes, its very irritating how they're always talking to or about people at Trump rallies. I actually haven't seen ANY interviews with Hillary supporters and they barely show her rallies at all unless she's talking about Trump. And yet he keeps on whining abut the "discrimination" of the media with the rigged system against him! He is STILL eating up air time more than Hillary--just like he did in the primaries! It's infuriating, even on MSNBC.

 

The other day the head of CNN Jeff Zucker reluctantly admitted that indulging in so much Trump coverage may have been a mistake in retrospect.

Today, I had to switch off CNN in disgust when I saw the upcoming program was "Trump's Women Warriors."

This after two days of them heavily promoting Anderson Cooper's sitdown with Melania Trump.

Not to mention that Donald Trump documentary CNN ran the other night, which, from the little I saw, made him look like an American hero.

Edited October 19, 2016 by millennium

[Padma]

42 minutes ago, Bunky1412 said:

I've offered plenty of opinions.  Go back and read my posts.  And when you're done with that, feel free to put me on "ignore" and continue posting away, including posting nasty remarks about Republicans if you so choose.  As I said, it's not breaking the rules to do so.  I've given my thoughts on the subject, and now I'm done.   Carry on!

I took your invitation. Other for the recent posts we've been back and forth on, you mainly posted about the Emmys. The only earlier post I saw in this thread was expressing relief no one was hurt in AZ or NC, which all obviously can agree on.

I do take some exception to you calling me out for assuming you're a Trump supporter. I think my idea of a Trump supporter starting a pro-Trump thread was NOT specifically directed at you, was a suggestion, if it fit, saying that if I were one, that's what I'd do.

However, whether you are or aren't a Trump supporter, it would be nice to talk about the pros and cons of ISSUES  or some Quotes or something specifically related to the candidates rather than personalities involved on this board--in other words, discussion that was, regardless of political orientation, "more Clinton than Trump" in its content.

ETA: Two words tell me all I need to know about Jeff Zucker and his (abysmally low) level of integrity: "Corey Lewandowski".

Edited October 19, 2016 by Padma

[Rapunzel]

2 hours ago, junemeatcleaver said:

Don't forget about guns.

Donald Trump is a dangerous idiot and the Republican leadership should be ashamed of endorsing him.  And for what?  A few more votes?  What are they going to do after the party has alienated everyone except an increasingly shrinking sliver of the electorate?

I sincerely hope that nominating him comes back to bite the Republicans in the ass and their fear of losing the house happens. This is why some of them have already started abandoning ship because they are worried about the other elections. When (again, I always like to say "when" to try to stay positive and believe that the majority of those who will be voting have enough common sense, regardless of party affiliation, will not vote for that Orange Douchebag) Hillary is elected and, assuming things also have a positive outcome with the other elections, it should teach a hard lesson to the Republicans who never should have let him get this far to begin with.

I think John Oliver said something to the effect that even those Republicans that are revoking their endorsement now and hope he doesn't win still have culpability in that they still allowed it to get this far. This is true, but at least some of them are admitting he is unfit and that they may have made a mistake by nominating him.

I absolutely hate when they mention that Trump is part of the Republican party, just like Lincoln and so many other great Presidents to try to justify him being in the race. Presidents like Lincoln should not be mentioned in the same breath as Trump. He, and others from that party, are undeniably far better than Trump. They're trying to almost make is seem like being a "Republican" alone makes him some kind of great, honorable man, but there is no way in Hell this man will be the next Lincoln. We will be the laughing stock of the world if he wins as he was never qualified to run to begin with. He is going to tear this Country apart and will likely lead us to the brink of nuclear war, perhaps due to one of his manic, borderline psychotic, middle of the night Twitter rants, or get us into a cyber war even if he gets tossed out after 6 months to a year. It won't take him long to do so much damage. Look at how much he's caused already in his campaign. His disrespect and abuse of women is just one example of how he has damaged and disrespected the American people, not to mention alienating immigrants and wanting to build his big "Wall."  He is dividing this nation, not uniting it, and working on, and promoting, unity is a fundamental ability that you need from any good President.

I wouldn't be surprised, that, if he loses, he tries to create his own "Trumplican Party" and run again just because that's the kind of narcissistic egomaniac that he is.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Rapunzel

[Kromm]

6 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

@Bunky1412 I am sorry you feel attacked, either on this thread or offline. I do agree with others who have said that there is a distinction between Republicans and Trump fans. Donald Trump is not an actual Republican and his supporters are generally not actual Republicans because of it. Note: I am recognizing here that not everyone is voting for Trump because they LIKE him. I consider "Trump supporter" to mean "I like Donald Trump and that's why he gets my vote." I've said before in this thread that I was a registered Republican until a few weeks ago (when I renewed my driver's license and changed to No Party), and I don't feel the vitriol towards Republicans or conservatives in general from here. I think a lot of folks just HATE The Donald, and need an outlet :)

I think this is a generally "liberal" leaning board, but not oppressively so. There's going to be plenty of grumbling about opposition to abortion, about people with an agenda to undo gay marriage, about support of the "bathroom bill", about Congress being in the NRA's service to the extent that they won't consider moderate gun reform, etc. Maybe even some anger.

But I think most people here will at least listen to the other point of view... until it starts being stuff about conspiracies, until it stops using logic and starts to sound like empty rhetoric. Until opinion (pardon the pun) trumps facts.

Or not. This political board is new.  We shall see.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Kromm

[Kromm]

Oh brother (both metaphorically and literally).

Obama’s half-brother will be at Vegas debate cheering for Trump

[Pixel]

4 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think about 25% are "true believers," so to speak, people who are genuinely racist and sexist and uncomfortable with the progress this country has made that is symbolized by a black president and now a woman president.

Then there's about 15% who I think know he's completely and inexcusably awful and are voting for him anyway because he's got the R next to his name on the ballot. Those are the people I'd like to give a stern talking-to about what they think they're doing with their lives. I mean, for god's sake, stay home this year at least!

But we'll see where he ends up. I believe in history, the losing candidate in every presidential election did get at least 37% of the vote, even in wipeouts. That seems to be the floor that any candidate is guaranteed. It's still possible he doesn't get a whole lot more than that, especially when you look at recent polls. I'm crossing my fingers that he won't.

I prefer to believe, wrong math on my part or not, that it's only the 12.8% or so that are showing up in the polls on fivethirtyeight.com.  That's less disheartening, to believe that all he's got left is mostly his core cult. I don't want to believe that almost half the country is ok with bigotry, misogyny, and racism. I don't want to believe half the country cannot or will not see that the emperor has no clothes, that he has no real policies to speak of, that he's nothing more than a grifter who steals money from those who work for him.  He's nothing more than a con artist, and not even a very good one. I'm flabbergasted that people don't see through him. I really don't understand it at all.

Hillary is a deal breaker for some. I get that. But I don't get how he's a viable alternative for anyone.

I hated him before Pussygate. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Pixel

[formerlyfreedom]

People are allowed to have different opinions. People are allowed to disagree. Your beliefs are just that - your beliefs. Posts were removed.

When you use terms that encompass a group (i.e., all Republicans, all women, all men, all Bronies), please keep in mind that there are likely to be people from within that group reading here, and they may feel uncomfortable with the generalizations, so maybe think of a better way to phrase (or try using 'many' or 'most' - if you don't use any qualifier, 'all' is implied).

Thank you.

[mythoughtis]

I personally do not think members of any political party (or any other group) all think alike, or should be stereotyped.  I think most people fall all over the map - conservative on this issue, moderate on this other one, and so forth.   I've self identified as Republican for a few decades  now - but I will not vote for Trump, for example.  I early voted, and every thing was either Dems or Libertarian when I got done this year.  So am I a RINO,now? 

Back to Trump - I just cannot support him because I can't find anything about him I respect, think he would be an incompetent and bad President, and he gives me the creeps.  I would feel the same if he were running as a Dem. Libertarian, or Independent - because I just don't like HIM.

[Pixel]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

I personally do not think members of any political party (or any other group) all think alike, or should be stereotyped.  I think most people fall all over the map - conservative on this issue, moderate on this other one, and so forth.   I've self identified as Republican for a few decades  now - but I will not vote for Trump, for example.  I early voted, and every thing was either Dems or Libertarian when I got done this year.  So am I a RINO,now? 

Back to Trump - I just cannot support him because I can't find anything about him I respect, think he would be an incompetent and bad President, and he gives me the creeps.  I would feel the same if he were running as a Dem. Libertarian, or Independent - because I just don't like HIM.

What's a RINO? (Slinking off to Google it)

[Princess Sparkle]

It's "Republican in name only". 

[Pixel]

Thanks! I did Google. :)

[mythoughtis]

Pixel - Republican In Name Only.  Normally used to imply that us moderates aren't really part of the party 

 

Edited to Thank Princess Sparkle for answering for me 

Edited October 19, 2016 by mythoughtis

[Pixel]

5 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Pixel - Republican In Name Only.  Normally used to imply that us moderates aren't really part of the party 

I used to be a Republican, until Bush's second term. I couldn't take it after 6 years of him. I am now a big time liberal Democrat. Even so, I have always been able to see the other side. I can be friends with someone who is conservative. I understand that our ideals and beliefs (abortion, for example) don't have to be the same.  I just, like many others, feel like it's not even about politics this year. It's like Trump is punking us all and we're watching some horrifying reality show play out, but one with real, long lasting, real world repercussions. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Pixel

[random chance]

12 minutes ago, Pixel said:

 I just, like many others, feel like it's not even about politics this year. It's like Trump is punking us all and we're watching some horrifying reality show play out, but one with real, long lasting, real world repercussions. 

 Ah that describes my feelings perfectly. I have voted for Republicans, I have voted for Democrats; sometimes my guy won and sometimes he didn't. I rarely took part in political discussions because normally I'd rather jump out of a moving car than have to talk about issues like abortion. But this year, this godawful year ... I am so glad for this thread, where I can just talk about the horror that is Trump without having to drag all the usual political baggage into it. 

[ChromaKelly]

23 hours ago, backformore said:

He's doing it again!!!!  

Run away, little girl!!!

I don't know why anyone would - 
1. Bring a child that young to a Trump rally
2. Bring a child of color to a Trump rally
3. Allow Trump anywhere near their child

What else is sad? That little girl is more than likely an international adoptee. A black child, an immigrant child. I am an adoptive mother of a black child as well, and I cannot fathom being for a presidential candidate who is basically against the best interests of my child. Whose followers call people like my child awful names. They used their child as a prop. Those parents are horrible. And yeah, I'm judging people I don't even know because I know that much about them.

[tenativelyyours]

Not sure where it is, but somewhere out there is a hilarious mockup of that as an ad that shows the "kiss" in slow motion as we get the voice over of the Orange Beast  uttering his "The blacks love me, I have no problem the blacks" when the very polls he was bragging about being such an indicator of his greatness had him at 3% approval with Black Americans.  And a +/- of 3.  Good stuff.

[car54]

Condi Rice responds to report Trump called her a 'bitch' in 2006 : 'Can't wait until November 9!' @CNNPolitics

Hahahahahahaha!

[Kromm]

[atomationage]

Olbermann's latest rant on Drumpf.  You know this man:

[Pixel]

14 minutes ago, atomationage said:

Olbermann's latest rant on Drumpf.  You know this man:

This gave me chills. This hits the nail on the head. It's also why I have had no problem clearing out any FB friends who are supporting him.  Although now I think maybe I should have kept them, so they could watch this (I just shared it). 

[needschocolate]

 I was talking to a ( moderate) Republican friend, who said that he is voting for Clinton, and that he hopes the Republicans lose the house and the senate, because he believes that is what it will take to get the Republican Party back on track.  I'm not so sure he's correct. I'm afraid The extremists would take over the Republican Party

 I feel that having a two party system, or perhaps a three party system, is good for the country, unless Congress get so partisan that they refuse to compromise in anyway and congressmen vote against things just because the other side is for it (which I think is where we are headed, if were not already there).

 So many well spoken posters here, people who follow politics much more closely than I ever have -- I'm wondering what affect any of you think losing the House and the   Senate would have on the Republican Party long-term.

[random chance]

Whoooaaaa. That Olbermann rant was chilling.

I copied this out of the comments section in Jezebel (below). It's a good representation of the difference between this and every other election, for me: past elections, I didn't ask people who they were voting for because I didn't want to have the inevitable talking-points conversation. This election, I don't ask them because I really don't want to know.

Quote

A few days ago I snapped and couldn’t take it anymore and wrote a really long and surprisingly well received Facebook post detailing why I can’t have Trump supporters in my life anymore,  [...]

One guy, who I thought was a very good friend whom I respectrd actually responded [...] and I quote “Stupid Cunts like you are why we need to repeal the 19th ammendment .” I’ve known this man for almost 20 years. I was in his wedding, he’s been a frequent guest in my home. My children love him. And that’s how it ended. I had no words. The fuck is wrong with people ?

[ruby24]

17 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

  So many well spoken posters here, people who follow politics much more closely than I ever have -- I'm wondering what affect any of you think losing the House and the   Senate would have on the Republican Party long-term.

I honestly think nothing will change, especially if they do well in the mid-terms like they always do. The truth is, what with McCain saying what he said about the Court the other day, and most of the Republicans defending Trump in the face of all this madness...I really don't know what that party stands for. The true sadness and horror here is that we are far more vulnerable to a fascist takeover in this country than we ever thought possible.

And a huge reason for that is because now we know the Republican party won't stand up to it. They will actually go along with it. What happens if someone like Trump comes along who's even just a bit more competent or politically skilled? The Republicans will fold!

[Kromm]

59 minutes ago, atomationage said:

Olbermann's latest rant on Drumpf.  You know this man:

Utterly brilliant.

Olbermann is hardly objective--but he's expressed his point of view absolutely perfectly. It rings true for me to the core the same way that Mi-Ai Parrish Arizona Republic thing did a few days ago. A pair of people, normally on totally different ends of the political spectrum who this week have met in the middle on how terrifying and destructive Donald Trump is. How nightmarish for our country.

[backformore]

4 hours ago, Bunky1412 said:

I've offered plenty of opinions.  Go back and read my posts.  And when you're done with that, feel free to put me on "ignore" and continue posting away, including posting nasty remarks about Republicans if you so choose.  As I said, it's not breaking the rules to do so.  I've given my thoughts on the subject, and now I'm done.   Carry on!

I went back, read your posts, and I don't see where you discussed your views on Trump.   I don't believe I posted any "nasty remarks"  about you or anyone else.  I tried to understand your point, but frankly, it escapes me.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

It's really hard. I've read about how political differences can really screw up relationships. I've seen the SNL , and other places, skits about the kind of arguments politics can cause, but I've never really experienced it myself, probably because I've never participated in politics as much as I have this year. I've talked with friends about this before. Most of them have talked about how they usually don't let political differences affect their relationships, but that this year is different because of how repugnant Trump and his views are. I'd love to just remove some Trump supporters from my life, but it's difficult since most of them are people that I've respected for years. It's been really shocking to go on Facebook and see so many people I thought were intelligent defending some of the gross things Trump has said and done. It's especially difficult because of the divide between what my relatives and I think and what my husband's family thinks. I don't want to necessarily say this is the reason for it, but my husband's family is White and I'm Black and sometimes I just want to scream "Well, of course, you don't give a shit about the disgusting, disrespectful things Trump has said. He's not denigrating you and your family." I got in big trouble last week because my MIL posted this stupid meme to Facebook defending Trump's hot mic comments by talking about how if women are so upset about naughty words then why was 50 Shades of Grey so popular. I had to point out that it wasn't about naughty words but about having a problem with someone boasting about sexual assault. I was slightly snarky with what I said, but I wasn't particularly rude but my MIL and her sister took it to a personal level that I was not prepared for. It led to some issues with my husband too because she unnecessarily put him in the middle of it. I'm trying really hard to avoid those kinds of landmines for the next three weeks (which is why I'm really grateful to find these forums.)

[tenativelyyours]

I'm not sure if a taking back of the House and Senate by Deomcrats will change things.  Career politicians and a really warped election system itself will still exist.  I hated how things turned out in 2010 and the shit that came out of that apathy will need decades to undo I suspect.  And go back and watch interviews on The Daily Show with Nancy Pelosi and the late Ted Kennedy.  Both have done a great amount of good.  But both also exemplify what is wrong with our system and I don't think a different stripe will change the skunk from smelling if you will.

One of the aspects I think that should come out of the race and likely won't, is why this man is so close?  Not just the hate, the feeling of losing entitlement and being able to exclude to one's own privilege.  But also why on both sides there is a strong wearied sense of not being able to vote our way clear of the two parties.  There is a lot in my mind to disqualify this creature from being any holder of responsibility in any way to the public.  But I'm also, despite her qualifications not real keen on Clinton in general.  But I feel that a big part of the problem is the choices we have.  I wasn't thrilled with Sanders either.  And there was not a single Republican running who did not scare me in some way. 

So the issue is, would a win tell the message we do need political parties to be more "self-aware"?  Be more progressive simply in building and expanding their base even when the White House or Supreme Court more likely is on the line?   Remember how we got the whole "big Tent" false affability as Republicans tried to rebrand themselves?  Or how people wearing any kind of hat was welcome?  And this is what we got in four/eight years of the party officials so called appeasement and claims to want and welcome diversity.  Big Tent?   Well its being guided by the biggest Killer Clown on social media right now that if for sure.

What this creature as the one of the two major party's candidate shows imo, is that if the Democrats win either or both the House and Senate, it should not send a message that they themselves were on message.  That it is an affirmation of their party's policies.  That way lies another 2010 in 2018 imo.  Or a win for them in the White House in 2020.  But rather that the nation needs change and they are the ones to show us it is possible in how they govern themselves the rules that get them in office and keep them there.

Sadly I don't think many if any will be brave enough to do that.   Just like Reid and Pelosi they would rather gamble even when, midterm after midterm it bites them in the ass.  Sadly, the nation is the one to suffer from the following infection.

[Kitty Redstone]

Sorry to hear about your husband's family, FilmTVGeek80.  Her argument was of course completely illogical, but it's disturbing how a complete stranger can bring out the latent ugliness and irrationality in people.  Toxic begets toxic.

2 hours ago, atomationage said:

Olbermann's latest rant on Drumpf.  You know this man:

That was brilliant.  At this point, I'm not sure anyone can get those supporters of his who are promising an uprising if he doesn't win to understand that they're supporting a dirty rotten fascist.  Maybe they know and don't care.  But it's important for more and more people to come out and say it.  Tonight on 11th Hour, one of the guests (a Republican) got emotional when talking about how dangerous all his blustering about rigged elections really is, and remarked that fascism didn't rise because it was strong but because democracy was weak. 

Another important note - Lawrence O'Donnell ended his show by strongly implying that Trump was likely quite beholden financially to Putin.  Others have been more circumspect about his strange approval for Russian thugs, but it is a point that deserves more attention.

2 hours ago, needschocolate said:

So many well spoken posters here, people who follow politics much more closely than I ever have -- I'm wondering what affect any of you think losing the House and the   Senate would have on the Republican Party long-term.

The GOP is in a lot of trouble.  Every day that passes without them saying - as slowly and clearly as possible - that they do not support this man or anything he represents and WHY, they get into it even deeper.

[zxy556575]

16 hours ago, atomationage said:

By absentee ballot, all you need is to be on their mailing list. This is especially prevalent in Florida where many people just go down for the winter. The experience of 2000 says that most of those are GOP voters.

My county in Florida keeps signatures on file and compares those to the signatures on the outside of the ballot envelopes: "When your ballot comes into our office, your signature on the envelope is compared to that in our system.  If the two are not similar, the canvassing board determines if your vote will count or not."

[Grommet]

I haven't unfriended anyone but I have stopped following more people than I'd like because I just don't want to get into it, but some things I can't let pass. So ignorance is, if not bliss,  the less painful route.  I limit my political discussions to my left-leaning friends who prefer a fact-based reality. I enjoy reading all the thoughtful, well-informed posts here and am grateful to PTV for setting up these forums.

[Nidratime]

Quote

I'm not sure if a taking back of the House and Senate by Deomcrats will change things.  Career politicians and a really warped election system itself will still exist. 

Well, unfortunately, the people have been taught through constant haranguing over the past 20 years that compromise is a dirty word and so nothing can get done. Politics isn't about being pure; when it works well, it's transactional and it's about compromise. After all, no one can expect a District on one side of the country to want or need everything that a District on the opposite side of the country will need, so you give a little on one side to get what you want and vice versa -- even if that makes you ideologically impure. That's what greases the wheels and keeps gov't operating. Same between Congress and the President when they bargain. But, with people like this 30-40 hardcore tea party types  in the House and their leader, Senator Cruz, stalemate is all we've been getting lately.

[car54]

Thanks Michael,

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/19/movies/19michael-moore-trumpland.html?_r=0

[Pothunter]

I just saw a photograph of the candidates shaking hands and felt a shudder of revulsion on behalf of Hillary Clinton. The very idea made me feel sick to the stomach.