Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[Kitty Redstone]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think this article is really important in explaining the Trump voters and it's led me, sadly, to finally accept that the number of Americans like this is far greater than I had thought: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/15/13286498/donald-trump-voters-race-economic-anxiety

I don't know what the solution is to this, though. They say it's important NOT to give up, not to write these people off, but being uncomfortable with racial equality is not something that can be dealt with rationally. I mean, how do you reach them? CAN you reach them?

Or can they only be reached with a white male candidate? If a John Kerry or Al Gore type Democrat had been the nominee (or the president right now), would this kind of anger not exist on the other side? I know that this country was built on a white male patriarchy, and that foundation takes a LONG time to break through- and the truth is our country is relatively young compared to other countries, so in some ways our progress has actually been faster, which is a good thing. But almost half the country just isn't onboard with this kind of progress and isn't going for it.

It's important to note that it isn't half the country, though.  It was a relatively small number of Republican-registered voters who voted for Trump in the primaries, and they make up an even smaller number of the population.  His fans are unreasonable people, and I'm tired of their whining and their anger and their racism and their misogyny and their ugly t-shirts and their sickening, pathetic authoritarianism.  Their unwillingness to cooperate on even the most basic of issues is quite clear.  For the safety and well being of decent people everywhere, his supporters and the people who enable them should definitely not be ignored.  But we shouldn't waste a whole lot of time trying to change them, either.  The country has plenty of problems that can actually be solved through community outreach, better education and healthcare, investment in infrastructure and the environment, and on.  Fuck them.

[Cupid Stunt]

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 10/13/2016 at 4:26 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I've really been enjoying reading everyone's comments here. But as I'm reading about all these women who are now coming out about this Orange Orangutan, it struck me how life imitates art.  It reminded me very much of an episode in Law & Order (third season), where the police psychologist, Elizabeth Olivette was raped by this highly respected gynecologist, and when the judge overturned the guilty to a not guilty, the prosecution decided to arrest him again (on the premise he'd raped other women) and had the press there. So, in front of them he denied ever raping anyone. That he "helped women, didn't rape them." And within a few hours, 54 women had filed reports with the police--women he'd abused, molested and raped. Of course, that was television and he got sent to jail. If only the same would happen to Drumpf.

"In the future, Sir, I would advise you to stay off of the six o clock news."

 

[Pixel]

3 hours ago, Moose135 said:

Maybe he does it every time he tells a lie...

I watched a Trump rally today and noticed he does not do the sniffing at the rallies. So why during the debates?

[magdalene]

38 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I watched a Trump rally today and noticed he does not do the sniffing at the rallies. So why during the debates?

He is allergic to a strong and intelligent woman?

[biakbiak]

I think he is worried that someone might call him on his bullshit.

[HumblePi]

1 hour ago, Pixel said:

I watched a Trump rally today and noticed he does not do the sniffing at the rallies. So why during the debates?

He doesn't sniff at his rallies because he feeds off of their enthusiasm for him, it's a rush for his ego. When he's in debate, there's no cheering, adoration, there's just a silent audience and it makes him uncomfortable and awkward feeling.

[needschocolate]

7 hours ago, HumblePi said:

I can almost guarantee that if Donald Trump didn't bring the women to the debate that claimed that Bill Clinton raped, molested or had an affair with, that the infamous 'bus trip with Billy Bush' would never have come to light. Hillary Clinton isn't dumb and she was prepared for him if he took it in this direction. Donald wanted to get even with Hillary for bringing Alicia Machado's name up in the first debate. Hillary Clinton was well prepared in advance with seas of women in the wings waiting to come forward and talk about Donald and his predatory behavior.

I am confused by the highlighted sentence.  The Trump tape came out on friday night,  the debate was two days later.  Trump brought the women because he was "fighting back" for him being called a sexual predator after the tape was all over the news.  

[HumblePi]

1 hour ago, needschocolate said:

I am confused by the highlighted sentence.  The Trump tape came out on friday night,  the debate was two days later.  Trump brought the women because he was "fighting back" for him being called a sexual predator after the tape was all over the news.  

You're correct and my husband also corrected me. The tape was released prior to the debate but the plans to parade out the four women was planned prior to the first debate. Corey Lewandowski admitted this on CNN that he wanted to do this for the first debate but his campaign managers decided to hold off.

[backformore]

Someone on Twitter re-posted Trump's tweets when The Apprentice didn't win the Emmy for best reality show in 2014.

It's hilarious, because it's so similar to what he's saying now.  It's not fair, it's rigged, etc.  what a sore loser!

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by backformore

[biakbiak]

Nice that he insulted his boss's other show!

[backformore]

This one speaks for itself:

[b2H]

20 hours ago, HumblePi said:

If you abolish the EPA, who will protect the earth from devastating effects of pollution?

Don't forget that, according to DT, climate change is a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese.  In that view, we don't need an organization to fix something that doesn't exist, right?

[starri]

This is what scares me.

[Kromm]

15 hours ago, Padma said:

That is a very good article (paraphrasing): Understanding Trump voters means not explaining their support as bsed on economic anxiety and national security concerns as much as it is on (1) party identification and (2) racial (and ethnic/religious) prejudices.

Party identification is indeed a big one, but that goes hand in hand with what the Republican Party represents to them. It all goes back to religion, and it's wrong (and unfair) IMO to say that is intractably linked to racism to all (or even most) of them. 

God supposedly says abortion is murder. God supposedly says being gay is an abomination, and so (the logic follows) gays "imitating" what they think of as a sacred religious bond, marriage (instead of what it really is, a civil bond pre-dating their stupid religion) is an even bigger abomination. 

Guns are a bit to one side. Guns of course are not talked about in the Bible, but in a way the belief in them has worked out the same way because many of the same people devoting themselves to that level of religious obedience have also imbued a belief in the Second Amendment with the same kind of fervor, a similar mental/psychological approach as them believing in religious doctrine. 

To me, there's an unarguable large percentage of the hard core supporters who look at this as a Holy War, and if there are elements of a class or race war it's a side effect, not the core of their belief. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, or we wouldn't be in the messy racial situation we are in now in this country.

Note that a lot of the above would apply to any Republican sticking with their candidate and not specifically Donald Trump's remaining army--even when he's now regularly turning against the same party a lot of those people otherwise support. So why stick with him? It literally goes back to the hardest-core interpretation of "anyone but Hillary" (a lie, since it really means "no Democrat, who's going to support a Supreme Court which isn't going to support our religious-stoked belief system").  Holy War, remember? 

But, as I said in another earlier post, there are also true Trump believers. People SO embittered by how badly things have been going in this country, heck in the entire world--or at least BELIEVING it's all been going that badly--that they reach out for the illusion (or rather DELUSION) of change, and Donald Trump represents that.  Some thinking he really means it and can somehow magically do things, and others nihilistically believing that whatever chaos results is somehow better than the status quo. And yes, some people, in this basket, who revel at the racist, sexist, and other "ist" messages they agree with. The people who are just angry, and Trump is their outlet for it.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Kromm

[starri]

How many does this make?

[ChromaKelly]

This article basically sums up why Republicans are sticking with Trump. It's just sad. Hillary is so hated that it would be the kiss of death to vote for her, even though Trump is so thoroughly disgusting and unqualified. They would rather have him lead this country into disarray than have her. 
This is the county bordering mine. We moved out of there last year, in part because it's too white and conservative for us.
http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/news/government/ph-cc-presidential-votes-20161015-story.html

[Kromm]

3 minutes ago, starri said:

How many does this make?

That article only says she's the 7th, but I could swear I'd already seen 9 as the number elsewhere, yesterday.

Let's consider this passage:

Quote

Trump himself has been very vocal on the campaign trail about the mounting accusations against him, calling the women who have accused him of groping, unwanted kissing and sexual harassment "horrible, horrible liars" while suggesting that their charges are potentially part of a "global" conspiracy to "rig" the election involving the New York Times — which published the accounts of two women earlier this week — and his opponent, Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

In her interview with The Guardian, Heller said, "He can't claim we're all liars." The Guardian reported that two other people, an acquaintance and a relative at the event, that gave accounts backing up Heller's claim.

The reason this is going to be so insidious is that a lot of people WANT to believe in the Illuminati, and there Donald goes practically saying it.

And there's also likely a tiny nugget of truth, mixed with a lot of delusion. I mean I've said already that it actually likely is NOT a coincidence that all of this popped out of the woodwork at once, but rather than someone (and it could be either the Dems OR the frustrated Republicans trying to stop the destruction of their party) did opposition research and dug most of this up. Some of the accusers likely are rising up organically from hearing all of this in the press, but at least a few of them probably actually got called by someone in the beginning.  Not by the Illuminati. Not by some global conspiracy afraid to let Freedom Fighter Donald J. Trump in power. But by simple party stooges who's job it was.

Which means nothing. He did it. All of it.  

And while the "conspiracy" logic is insidious in how it's going to stoke his followers even more (because  a lot of them DO think like that), it's certainly also inversely going to sever his last vestige of being able to claim the mainstream. Now it's literally just his True Believers, combined with the Holy Rollers who want to preserve the Word of God at all costs. 

[backformore]

Alec Baldwin did his impression of Trump again on SNL.  And Trump was offended enough that he tweeted about how bad it was.  

Can we have such a thin-skinned person running the country?

[DeLurker]

He makes me glad I am not on twitter.  Well, not on any form of social media and he confirms that was a right decision.

[Darian]

7 hours ago, backformore said:

Someone on Twitter re-posted Trump's tweets when The Apprentice didn't win the Emmy for best reality show in 2014.

It's hilarious, because it's so similar to what he's saying now.  It's not fair, it's rigged, etc.  what a sore loser!

 

Do you have a link to that, or a way to find it. I'd be very happy to look it up and share it elsewhere. :) 

I have to say about Twitter, I have come to love it. I follow friends and people like Joy Reid and Deray McKesson and Neil Gaiman and Michelle Obama and organizations I support that help keep me updated on opportunities for advocacy. I rarely went on Twitter before this election, but it's helping keep me sane. Plus, in a terribly rough week, Kelly Oxford's #notokay thread where women are sharing their sexual assaults has been a great comfort. Not saying anyone should go on it, of course. But it's very different from what I thought before I started using it more actively. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by Darian

[maraleia]

29 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

He makes me glad I am not on twitter.  Well, not on any form of social media and he confirms that was a right decision.

Twitter and investigative print journalists are the only way most of this stuff is getting any attention which tells us that the oldest and newest media sources are the most important thing happening during this election cycle. TV news isn't doing the job. They are reacting to what twitter and newspapers are finding.

[Darian]

A friend of mine, after the Washington Post broke the Access Hollywood story, reminded us to support news outlets. I'd been remiss, so I subscribed to three major media outlets. Washington Post is one. And, as we spoke of Twitter, I watched Meet the Press this morning, and Chuck Todd pushed Mike Pence pretty hard on Trumps' comments. At least, Todd got Pence to dodge and deflect, and had no real answer. And speaking of Twitter, I rarely tweet, but Joy Reid retweeted me, which made me happier than I would have anticipated). 

[33kaitykaity]

4 minutes ago, Darian said:

And speaking of Twitter, I rarely tweet, but Joy Reid retweeted me, which made me happier than I would have anticipated). 

Congratulations!!

[xaxat]

So, a seventy year old man who routinely stays up past three a.m. (He fired off a tweet at SNL this morning.) is accusing someone else of drug use?

Hmm, overcompensation much?

[ChromaKelly]

1 hour ago, backformore said:

Alec Baldwin did his impression of Trump again on SNL.  And Trump was offended enough that he tweeted about how bad it was.  

Can we have such a thin-skinned person running the country?

Can you imagine Obama tweeting every time someone makes a joke at his expense? Calling people losers and haters? 

[needschocolate]

11 hours ago, HumblePi said:

You're correct and my husband also corrected me. The tape was released prior to the debate but the plans to parade out the four women was planned prior to the first debate. Corey Lewandowski admitted this on CNN that he wanted to do this for the first debate but his campaign managers decided to hold off.

This proves that Trump is not just reactionary, but he is also just plain stupid (yeah, I know, it isn't anything we didn't know before).

9 hours ago, backformore said:

Someone on Twitter re-posted Trump's tweets when The Apprentice didn't win the Emmy for best reality show in 2014.

It's hilarious, because it's so similar to what he's saying now.  It's not fair, it's rigged, etc.  what a sore loser!

 

I wonder what percentage of psychology majors will be writing term papers on "What is Wrong with Donald Trump"  - Delusions of grandeur, projecting, pathological lying, body dysmorphic syndrome (does that apply if you think you are much better looking than you really are?), short term memory loss (saying he never said he was smart to not pay taxes within 2 hours of saying it), long term memory loss (I never said...never met...),  etc...

1 hour ago, maraleia said:

Twitter and investigative print journalists are the only way most of this stuff is getting any attention which tells us that the oldest and newest media sources are the most important thing happening during this election cycle. TV news isn't doing the job. They are reacting to what twitter and newspapers are finding.

Many people reporting the news don't think.  I dislike Trump completely, I see nothing redeeming about him,  I believe that he did do the things his accusers are accusing him of, and I think there are probably many more women out there who could tell similar stories about him.  However, an example of people in the media not thinking about what is being reported  --- I have heard quite few people on news programs say that Trump must be guilty because the accusers are describing very similar activities to those he said on the tape.  The people saying this are giving their opinions, but the supposed news anchors/journalists aren't pointing out that the accusers came forward after hearing the tape, so accusing him of something similar to what he said to Billy Bush is not proving anything. 

39 minutes ago, xaxat said:

So, a seventy year old man who routinely stays up past three a.m. (He fired off a tweet at SNL this morning.) is accusing someone else of drug use?

Hmm, overcompensation much?

There he goes, projecting again.  

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

Edited October 16, 2016 by needschocolate

[Menrva]

Trump scares the crap out of me, but his supporters - they keep me up at night. I have lost a ridiculous amount of sleep over worrying about this election. Nothing about him surprises me - the racism, the sexism, the sexual assaults, the lying; this is who Trump is. I am surprised that anyone would be shocked by the allegations. We've known all along who Donald Trump is and now we have proof. I was disgusted by the accounts of the abuse and it reminded me of the abuse I suffered during my life. And how outraged and saddened I feel for all the women who are scoffed at, who are afraid to come forward - like I was. I said nothing during high school because I was the weird, nerdy kid surrounded by jocks; in college, because I was so ashamed and was accused my my attacker of "leading him on". I was revolted by the anonymous men who pressed up against me on the bus in Rome, who used the jam-packed crowds to hide their lewd actions. I was furious at the men who accosted my sister and mocked her appearance because of her birth defect, described how they would "fuck her like an animal" because they assumed that because she looked different, she must also be too stupid to understand what they were saying. I didn't stand silent that time; I told them where to go and what they could do with themselves. They were shocked and finally left us alone, but I was shaking with rage. I'm still angry that this crap goes on and now is seemingly legitimized by this overgrown racist toddler and his sycophants.

I have daughters; my older ones are old enough to understand what is going on here and they're horrified. They take karate, not ballet. There's nothing wrong with dance, but when I take a good look at the world they're growing up in, I want to know that they'll be able to defend themselves. And not take crap from anyone. They've already been told by some that "Girls can't do that." They tell those people, "Just watch me." They are so thrilled with the idea that they might grow up having seen the first woman be elected president of the US. And hopefully, not the last. 

I didn't mean to derail this thread with my personal experiences, but that is what Donald Trump's candidacy has meant to me. He is a travesty, an international embarrassment and a terrible human being. I pity his supporters but have trouble finding sympathy for them. I read somewhere that equality feels like oppression, when you've lived with privilege for so long. And I guess that is the motivating force for them.

[Padma]

13 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

Many people reporting the news don't think.  I dislike Trump completely, I see nothing redeeming about him,  I believe that he did do the things his accusers are accusing him of, and I think there are probably many more women out there who could tell similar stories about him.  However, an example of people in the media not thinking about what is being reported  --- I have heard quite few people on news programs say that Trump must be guilty because the accusers are describing very similar activities to those he said on the tape.  The people saying this are giving their opinions, but the supposed news anchors/journalists aren't pointing out that the accusers came forward after hearing the tape, so accusing him of something similar to what he said to Billy Bush is not proving anything. 

 

I agree in principle, because our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty" and nothing's been proven (as evidenced by the legalese that accompanies every report: "(News organization) has not been able to independently validate these claims." 

However, Trump had no hesitation in trotting out three anti Clinton women as if everything they alleged had been proven just because they once said so (and, although heavily investigated, it wasn't). He has no hesitation in  -routinely- telling supporters that Hillary is "GUILTY" of crimes and "should be" locked up and in prison.

So while, yes, he technically has the presumption of innocence, in this case, as my mother used to say, "He's hoisted on his own petard."  That said, I wish there would be a leak that shows him actually DOING something vile to a woman,, on camera, rather than letting him count on Mark Burnett et al to keep hiding it and letting him lie.

It's not the women that's damning although they do seem credible. It's that Trump HIMSELF described the conduct, owned it and bragged about it. Away from his rallies, his own words boasted to another man about sexual assaulting women. And, frankly, now joking that his accusers shouldn't be believed because they're not his type and not attractive enough for him to assault isn't much of a defense.

I want so much for there to be another video that shows him in action.  Because he lies so brazenly now to his people about the "rigged system" and how he's like Jesus standing up against the corrupt establishment for the little people (not literally, but lots of martyred imagery). His conspiracy theory of how the "international bankers, the Washington establishment, the Clintons and their lackeys in the media" have all conspired to bring him down with made-up accusers and accusations "because they want to destroy our movement of 'We the People'"--- he has to be exposed as the liar he is to his followers, whether they choose to see it or not.

The cowardly Republican leadership won't do it. Hopefully someone will leak another tape, as a public service.  Who knows what more dirty tricks Putin and Assange will try against Hillary in the coming weeks and how public opinion can be swayed? This man just -can't- become President of the United States.

[Padma]

Thanks for posting that Twitter feed.  Alex Witt mentioned it--along with his 2012 tweets calling the results a "rigged election" there, too, and apparently mentioning revolution--but it's something else to see it.  How whiny he is when things don't go his way. What a sore loser.  I can't imagine what his supporters see when they look at him, although my impression is many of the die-hards are low info voters who depend on InfoWars and Rush et al and Fox and their Facebook friends to make up their minds.  I've seen so many of them convinced Trump will win because "I don't know anyone who doesn't support him, even on my Facebook."

[Padma]

By the way, where is Nancy O'Dell in all this? She issued a general statement, no denial, no confirmation.  Of all people, she'd be the one who could back up that what Trump described to Billy really happened OR that his excuse is true and none of it happened.

No one even seems to be asking her about it. She probably doesn't want to take Trump on and impact her career, but no one's mentioning that she HASN'T defended it as "just talk", as he said.  I think her silence should be taken as confirmation that what he described doing to her was true (and she probably told her husband. If so, they really -should- come forward. Confirming Trump's own words would be more powerful than "he said/she said".).

[Darian]

I've been, literally (correct use of word), queasy as I see more and more calls for violence, more armed Trump supporters trying and promising to intimidate voters and hear about death threats to anyone who speaks against Trump, or for Hillary in some cases, in any way. I just read a thoughtful and, to me, moving piece in The Arizona Republic some of you might want to read: How do we respond to threats after our endorsement? This is how.

And for some reason I can't link to the video itself but I was also moved this morning by a slam poet's take on this Trump and this election, which is all over that page.  I don't remember if there's profanity or not, so I guess be warned. 

[Kromm]

19 minutes ago, Padma said:

By the way, where is Nancy O'Dell in all this? She issued a general statement, no denial, no confirmation.  Of all people, she'd be the one who could back up that what Trump described to Billy really happened OR that his excuse is true and none of it happened.

No one even seems to be asking her about it. She probably doesn't want to take Trump on and impact her career, but no one's mentioning that she HASN'T defended it as "just talk", as he said.  I think her silence should be taken as confirmation that what he described doing to her was true (and she probably told her husband. If so, they really -should- come forward. Confirming Trump's own words would be more powerful than "he said/she said".).

It's not her responsibility to do so.

If her part of the story involved Trump doing something illegal (groping for example) it would be different. But her only part in this was being propositioned and turning a man down. Gross, sure--especially since he knew she was married.  But it means the only conduct she personally witnessed was a behavior that millions and millions of men routinely illustrate. 

No idea if she told her husband, but it's fairly irrelevant for us to know (in other words it's her business, not ours). Anyway, she divorced the guy a few years later (supposedly for completely unrelated reasons). 

She wasn't present for Trump disrespecting her in front of Billy Bush either, so again that's another part of the story where she really has nothing to say other than what she did.

We don't even know for sure if Trump himself was married when he propositioned her. It's likely he was in a relationship (because his exit strategy from his marriages seemed to align with him having another woman cued up and ready to go), but that's speculation at best.

Really the person I'd imagine she's enraged at is Billy Bush. Trump may have been more direct in his actions (propositioning her and then bragging about it to Billy Bush), but the little worm was her co-worker for a long time and he just sat there snickering.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Kromm

[Darian]

A couple of days ago, Nancy O'Dell and her husband announced that they have separated. I felt bad for her that she even got identified as the women they were speaking of (and, you pig, Billy Bush, that was your co-worker). I hate celebrity gossip, but this came up on my Comcast (yes, I'm an old fart who has cable) saver, and I noticed because they put up really pretty seasonal pictures. And I admitted that here, because I like you people. 

[Padma]

21 minutes ago, Kromm said:

It's not her responsibility to do so.

If her part of the story involved Trump doing something illegal (groping for example) it would be different. But her only part in this was being propositioned and turning a man down. Gross, sure--especially since he knew she was married.  But it means the only conduct she personally witnessed was a behavior that millions and millions of men routinely illustrate. 

No idea if she told her husband, but it's fairly irrelevant for us to know (in other words it's her business, not ours). Anyway, she divorced the guy a few years later (supposedly for completely unrelated reasons). 

She wasn't present for Trump disrespecting her in front of Billy Bush either, so again that's another part of the story where she really has nothing to say other than what she did.

We don't even know for sure if Trump himself was married when he propositioned her. It's likely he was in a relationship (because his exit strategy from his marriages seemed to align with him having another woman cued up and ready to go), but that's speculation at best.

Really the person I'd imagine she's enraged at is Billy Bush. Trump may have been more direct in his actions (propositioning her and then bragging about it to Billy Bush), but the little worm was her co-worker for a long time and he just sat there snickering.

I didn't think Bush was so bad in that, I think he was the one who said, "She's still very beautiful" after Trump talked about her fake boobs, etc.  I mean, he was going along with TALK.  What Trump was describing doing (to women in general and, it seemed very likely, to O'Dell) was sexual assault. Talk's legal. Assault's a crime.

She doesn't -have- to come forward, obviously, but she has a unique chance to verify that Trump is guilty of sexual assault, exactly as he claimed on that bus. Given what others have said, particularly the People magazine writer whom I find very credible--she told her editor and her former journalism professor at the time, too--if he has any length of time at all around an attractive woman, he becomes very aggressive.

It is most definitely NOT "propositioning them".   Actually, he hasn't mentioned the truth of that specific story either. As for her, if he didn't come on aggressively as he described, she could easily come to his defense now, "Oh, yes, he showed me furniture but the rest? That's just Donald, talking it all up.  He was actually very nice."

I take her silence as indicating he did exactly as he said he did, but she doesn't want to get involved (not that I blame her, but she IS uniquely positioned to expose him as the liar he is.)  Of course, she doesn't "have" to, but when you see nearly a dozen women bravely going out there with it (one now releasing a statement she's "leaving the country" because of all the hate and threats) you might feel like stepping up and giving them support (especially as Trump keeps mocking them to his crowd and calling them liars. I'm pretty sure THEY, not HIM, are telling the truth here, but Nancy O'Dell's story would really tip the scales in their behalf. I hope she finds the courage to do it.)

[Darian]

Billy Bush first identified the professional there to do her job as "your girl" to Trump, immediately objectifying and sexualizing her. He goaded Trump, and then, after hearing and snickering about a man admit that he can't control himself around women and admit to sexual assault, put that same women into physical contact with that man. She was there to do her job and he asked her to hug Trump and himself. Trump had put his mask on by then and behaved, as he knew cameras were on at that time, but Bush put a woman in a position to have to have physical contact with a man he'd heard talk about his history of grabbing women's private parts and kissing them without consent. That's not just a little talk. 

[Kitty Redstone]

4 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

This article basically sums up why Republicans are sticking with Trump. It's just sad. Hillary is so hated that it would be the kiss of death to vote for her, even though Trump is so thoroughly disgusting and unqualified. They would rather have him lead this country into disarray than have her. 
This is the county bordering mine. We moved out of there last year, in part because it's too white and conservative for us.
http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/news/government/ph-cc-presidential-votes-20161015-story.html

I don't even know what to say about the people quoted in this article.  Their rationalizing and narrow-mindedness is astounding, especially the one who is "confident" that Trump will make good choices with respect to the Supreme Court, and the other person who believes Trump will protect the Constitution.  And the third who thinks that criticism of Trump is "white noise."  Yes, getting your brown shirts to chant along with you that someone should be put in jail without charge or conviction sure is showing respect for the Constitution!  And years of assaulting women and treating them like sex objects sure does convey the ability to make good choices!  And all the race-baiting and bragging that international laws will be ignored and broken ... well that's just white noise!

I don't believe for one second that these people want what's best for the country.  Not only are they kowtowing to Trump's campaign chairs, who are threatening those who don't come out and vocally support Trump, they are also knowingly and willingly putting in with flat-out fascists who support him.  It's disgusting.

[Padma]

1 hour ago, Menrva said:

Trump scares the crap out of me, but his supporters - they keep me up at night. I have lost a ridiculous amount of sleep over worrying about this election. Nothing about him surprises me - the racism, the sexism, the sexual assaults, the lying; this is who Trump is. I am surprised that anyone would be shocked by the allegations. We've known all along who Donald Trump is and now we have proof. I was disgusted by the accounts of the abuse and it reminded me of the abuse I suffered during my life. And how outraged and saddened I feel for all the women who are scoffed at, who are afraid to come forward - like I was. I said nothing during high school because I was the weird, nerdy kid surrounded by jocks; in college, because I was so ashamed and was accused my my attacker of "leading him on". I was revolted by the anonymous men who pressed up against me on the bus in Rome, who used the jam-packed crowds to hide their lewd actions. I was furious at the men who accosted my sister and mocked her appearance because of her birth defect, described how they would "fuck her like an animal" because they assumed that because she looked different, she must also be too stupid to understand what they were saying. I didn't stand silent that time; I told them where to go and what they could do with themselves. They were shocked and finally left us alone, but I was shaking with rage. I'm still angry that this crap goes on and now is seemingly legitimized by this overgrown racist toddler and his sycophants.

I have daughters; my older ones are old enough to understand what is going on here and they're horrified. They take karate, not ballet. There's nothing wrong with dance, but when I take a good look at the world they're growing up in, I want to know that they'll be able to defend themselves. And not take crap from anyone. They've already been told by some that "Girls can't do that." They tell those people, "Just watch me." They are so thrilled with the idea that they might grow up having seen the first woman be elected president of the US. And hopefully, not the last. 

I didn't mean to derail this thread with my personal experiences, but that is what Donald Trump's candidacy has meant to me. He is a travesty, an international embarrassment and a terrible human being. I pity his supporters but have trouble finding sympathy for them. I read somewhere that equality feels like oppression, when you've lived with privilege for so long. And I guess that is the motivating force for them.

Those are horrible things to have to deal with and kudos to you for coming through it all stronger and able to be there for your sister and your daughters.  I think one "good thing" that has come out of this Trump mess is that women are feeling some comfort and support in seeing others with so many similar stories and realizing not to feel shamed or blame ourselves (and I experienced the same thing in Rome--imo, the most beautiful city that I've ever been to, but an experience ruined by the harassment. I like to think it was the part of town I was staying in, sort of a lower class cultural thing, but... maybe not. I don't know. It was extreme.) 

Everything you say about Trump -- you could be speaking for me. The "best" thing, imo, is the education that will happen from so many courageous women stepping forward to expose him as a liar and a man who assaults women without a care in the world. (Watching him joke it off and mock the women at his rally yesterday just proves--again--what a disgusting human being he is. If he were remotely innocent, he wouldn't be talking that way. He's a smug, arrogant, (fill in epithet) who has been spoiled and catered to all of his life because of his wealth and power. Giving him the power of the presidency? (shudders)

The worst part, for me personally, is how intolerant of his supporters I'm becoming. I used to try to think "economic anxiety", "cultural isolation = fearfulness of foreigners, terrorism, etc." Then "low information voters" then "Obama was right about clinging to guns and religion". At a rally, many seem normal, even nice, until you engage them in conversation and the misogyny and racism and ignorance is kind of sickening.  I know Hillary apologized for saying it, but I kind of feel that way now myself toward his supporters--hopefully not "irredeemable" but definitely deplorable. I don't like generalizing that way about millions of people, but there's no other way to look at a Trump supporter for me. He's despicable and they adore him. How is that not deplorable?

Edited October 16, 2016 by Padma

[madmaverick]

19 minutes ago, Darian said:

Billy Bush first identified the professional there to do her job as "your girl" to Trump, immediately objectifying and sexualizing her. He goaded Trump, and then, after hearing and snickering about a man admit that he can't control himself around women and admit to sexual assault, put that same women into physical contact with that man. She was there to do her job and he asked her to hug Trump and himself. Trump had put his mask on by then and behaved, as he knew cameras were on at that time, but Bush put a woman in a position to have to have physical contact with a man he'd heard talk about his history of grabbing women's private parts and kissing them without consent. That's not just a little talk. 

Exactly.  That part where Billy told the actress to give Trump and himself a hug after the way they'd talked on the bus was especially gross.  And please, he was over 30 at the time so his "younger self" has no excuses as he would like to believe.  And what's this I read about Billy getting $10m from the network for his so called abrupt dismissal?  Wtf.  

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Darian said:

A couple of days ago, Nancy O'Dell and her husband announced that they have separated. I felt bad for her that she even got identified as the women they were speaking of (and, you pig, Billy Bush, that was your co-worker). I hate celebrity gossip, but this came up on my Comcast (yes, I'm an old fart who has cable) saver, and I noticed because they put up really pretty seasonal pictures. And I admitted that here, because I like you people. 

It's actually not even the same husband. She's been divorced and married again since the time of that tape (although the incident happened at some unspecified time even before that). 

[DollEyes]

47 minutes ago, Darian said:

Billy Bush first identified the professional there to do her job as "your girl" to Trump, immediately objectifying and sexualizing her. He goaded Trump, and then, after hearing and snickering about a man admit that he can't control himself around women and admit to sexual assault, put that same women into physical contact with that man. She was there to do her job and he asked her to hug Trump and himself. Trump had put his mask on by then and behaved, as he knew cameras were on at that time, but Bush put a woman in a position to have to have physical contact with a man he'd heard talk about his history of grabbing women's private parts and kissing them without consent. That's not just a little talk. 

ITA. Bush basically acted like a pimp at Arianne Zucker's expense. I believe that if she had heard the things that Trump and Bush had said about her beforehand, she would have wanted nothing to do with either one of them. Bush doesn't deserve 10 cents, let alone 10 million. 

Yet another example of Trump's madness is his claim that if/when he loses, the system is "rigged"-the same system that got him nominated in the first place.  The blind loyalty of Trump's supporters scares me, too. Their worship of Trump is terrifying. Trump has tapped into the anger, resentment and IMO ignorance of millions, exploiting them and their fears like the demagogue he is. Worse, there's an attitude among many Trump supporters who are willing to resort to violence if they don't get their way. That these lunatics are willing to hurt innocent people is disturbing, to say the least.  I agree that people are entitled to their opinions, but as far as I'm concerned, Trump and his ilk are crazier than a pack of shit house rats. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by DollEyes

[backformore]

4 hours ago, Darian said:

Do you have a link to that, or a way to find it. I'd be very happy to look it up and share it elsewhere. :) 

I have to say about Twitter, I have come to love it. I follow friends and people like Joy Reid and Deray McKesson and Neil Gaiman and Michelle Obama and organizations I support that help keep me updated on opportunities for advocacy. I rarely went on Twitter before this election, but it's helping keep me sane. Plus, in a terribly rough week, Kelly Oxford's #notokay thread where women are sharing their sexual assaults has been a great comfort. Not saying anyone should go on it, of course. But it's very different from what I thought before I started using it more actively. 

https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers

That's a link to the twitter page of the guy who posted it.  I don't know how to link to a specific tweet, but it's not hard to find from that link.  It's from yesterday.

[Nidratime]

Here's a link to the particular tweet.

https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/787437987323863040

Click on it to enlarge it.

(To copy a tweet: Right under Justin Wolfers' comment, you will see three dots. Click on that to get a drop down menu and you will see an option for copying the particular tweet.)

Edited October 16, 2016 by Nidratime

[Darian]

Thank you both so much!

[backformore]

2 hours ago, Menrva said:

Trump scares the crap out of me, but his supporters - they keep me up at night. I have lost a ridiculous amount of sleep over worrying about this election.

You are not alone.  When someone running for the highest office in the land talks about "grabbing her by the pussy,"  how are we sending a message to boys and men that this behavior is unacceptable?  How do we, as a society, enforce laws about sexual assault, if we can consider putting someone like this in charge?    If a homeless man walks up to a woman and gropes her, he's going to spend some time in jail.   A man in an expensive suit who does it should have the same punishment.   A creep is a creep. 

 

3 hours ago, needschocolate said:

I wonder what percentage of psychology majors will be writing term papers on "What is Wrong with Donald Trump"  -

Narcissistic personality disorder -  classic case.  It wouldn't be much of a paper, it's too obvious.  A reaction to deep-seated insecurity, projecting all your inadequacies on other people and attacking them to pump up your own feeling of self-worth.  It's why he can't NOT respond to stuff like the SNL skit.  Someone with real self esteem could let it go.  His self esteem is so shaky, that being made fun of cuts him to the core, and ignoring it feels like losing.  Listening to the message in most of what he says  - it comes down to the same thing -  I am the best, I have the best plans, I know more than anyone, believe me.  Anyone who opposes me is a loser and a liar  and a whiner. 

  SNL has made fun of presidents, and presidential candidates, as long as the show has been on.   The only people I recall reacting with hurt feelings and anger are Trump and Sarah Palin.  Others have realized that it's the price you pay for being in the public eye.   And Obama has chuckled about it, which is the most mature and effective response we've seen.

[HumblePi]

21 hours ago, madmaverick said:

I think an in depth examination and analysis of Trump's supporters and why they support him is critically important. Win or lose, those sentiments underpinning his support will continue to exist, and may even be further unleashed.  There's been a populist far right upsurge in other places as well, including Western Europe, and I would argue to a smaller extent in Australia as well.  Definite shades of Brexit in Trump's populist appeal.  

I think overt or subconscious racist feelings, feelings of fear, prejudice, diminished power, perception of  the 'other' as a threat to their dominance, their social and financial security, definitely play a role.  These far right populists play into nostalgic feelings of "the good old days", when country X was "great" and the desire to recapture that, and in many ways, it's just a code word for those who reject a multicultural, globalized society and yearn for the days when their racial group was the undisputed dominant force.  

I feel the anti-establishment feeling is another powerful motivating force for Trump supporters.   People who feel disempowered, disenfranchised for whatever reason (changing racial demographics, globalization, powerlessness in their own lives for whatever reason) blame "the system", and just want to stick their finger in whatever way possible.  The anger these people feel is immense.  It doesn't matter if they rationally know Trump can't really get things done etc., they just want to stick it to the establishment/Hillary.  

Then yes, there are those single issue voters in America for which something like abortion, gay marriage, gun control trumps ;) all.  Nothing else matters.   That kind of fundamentalism is myopic and scary to me, but it appears to be quite prevalent.

It's not about facts or reason with Trump supporters, I'm not sure you can make any headway with them by appealing to them on those grounds.  Pointing out Trump or their own misconceptions and hypocrisies isn't going to get anywhere with them.  Trump appeals to the emotions, always has done, and those voting for him are making an emotional statement of sorts, about the kind of people they are and they kind of country they want America to be. ;)

And oh yeah, misogyny has a lot to do with it too.  How could I forget the misogyny? ;)  I think this campaign has shown how far we still have to go.  

Unfortunately, he appeals to people that love to hate and can hate unabashedly now because Trump has shown them that it's 'good to hate' and to show anger. It's not even about abortion, or terrorism, or even about healthcare, it's about bigotry and hatred, period.

Here's an excerpt from the Boston Globe published yesterday (10/15) and comments from a Trump rally in Cincinnati.

“If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it,” Dan Bowman, a 50-year-old contractor, said of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”

This man is speaking about nothing less than treason, murder and anarchy. This man belongs in jail for even suggesting any of this. Sometimes hatred is best left alone for each man to have inside rotting him, but Trump has exposed this among his supporters. This is madness.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/10/15/donald-trump-warnings-conspiracy-rig-election-are-stoking-anger-among-his-followers/LcCY6e0QOcfH8VdeK9UdsM/story.html

[Darian]

It is treasonous. And that sheriff, David Clarke I posted about is still on Twitter, inciting violence. I went out the other night with my Woman Card in the clear ID slot of my wallet/keychain and my "We Made History" Hillary button on my bag, and my husband was worried. I'm worried for my friends who are working the polls and canvassing and have yard signs. I'm 55. I've never seen it like this. I used to joke and say the idea of President Trump made being terminally ill a lot more fun (I am terminal, but it's fine. I seem to be just immature and selfish enough to have lived, so far, 8 years past my predicted expiration date), but, honestly, I am not happy I lived to see this. But then, I got to see marriage equality, our first African-American president and I may get to see the first female president. Still, I really feel for the younger folks. We should not have let this happen. 

[tenativelyyours]

The fact that he projects so much and so ridiculously in terms of how clear he tries to flay Clinton with his own faults, I'm starting to think the sniffing is tied to drugs.  In the Daily Show thread not long after the first sniffing, I mentioned how there seems to have been a sort of urban legend that sinus spray can make your voice sound better for a short term and it was talked about during the Colorado conservative gathering that Palin seemed to go completely off the rails at awhile back.  People said she bought into the idea and thought it made her voice less shrill. 

I can also see him doing coke though for something like this because he has a bizarre sense of entitlement and I can see him thinking if it helped him, it didn't matter in any other way.  And he has been coddled in terms of ever being held accountable so I can see him thinking there is no risk.

Two other theories I have had about the sniffing that I give a bit of credence are he has had some small fillers to lessen the melting wax/jowl look beneath his eyes and over his cheekbones to give his face a small temporary lift.  He definitely looks over contoured in the second debate and his face definitely is getting lots of attention; especially since the focus on Hillary's health since her pneumonia.    There is simple anecdotal evidence out there that dates way before any of this, that suggests some people who get fillers around the eyes and nose can experience dryness and slight irritation in the sinuses.

The other one that also I find makes some sense is that he is trussed up tighter than a turkey for these debates.  His posture is so stiff and so oddly slanted that it does look like he is wearing a heavy duty corset or sorts.  It also would explain why his arm movements during the debates are so muted compared to his constant finger pointing and air swirling and prissy finger/thumb thing he does.  As per Sue Perkins who did two seasons of a show in the UK called Supersizers Go which had her dressed several times in corsets, they limit arm movement, restrict breath and had her panting through her nose when she had to talk. 

 

One of the interesting things about his supporters for me that has come out over the last year is how angry they are and how many of them aren't actually affected by the things they are angry about.  Going back to the segments on the Daily Show before Jessica Williams left and on Full Frontal as well as even several news segments across the networks that interview these people.  They are angry about America not being "great".  Yet in the interviews, most have jobs.  Most don't live in states/regions that havve a huge amount of diversity.  Most have never knowingly met an immigrant let alone a refugee.  Most of the women interviewed have expressed doubts about Hillary being President since she is a woman.  Despite these same women being employed.  And the latest of course is that most of these women would not tolerate their husbands, sons or brothers using the language he was caught on tape using but still hand wave that use as "locker room" and "boys will be boys".  It really makes me wonder how people can actually thrive on such a disconnect and how they will react to his possible/likely/pleasepleasepleaseinevitable loss come November.  It is not so much the potential violence I wonder about though I do fear it a bit. 

One thing I also wonder at the sheer obtuse approach they have is how many actually will vote?  The collapse of many of the tea party movement candidates showed that they didn't seem to get the votes that their almost rapid public support seemed to indicate.  I actually saw on one news segment a man trying to parse the whole process and he and his screaming cronies actually seemed to think the Clintons have been running the country for thirty years and that they are refusing to let go of the power that their candidate "won".  The reporter, and this was not a comedy/satire bit, it was real news out of Philadelphia and hopefully will make it to social media and those comedy shows in the next day or so, was completely baffled and she kept asking them who the current President was and they kept saying his name.  And said Clinton should pack her bags and get the *expletive deleted* out of the White House before she got kicked out.  It would be ironic if his own blather about the system being rigged and how the election can't be lost by him but "stolen" if he will actually dog whistle some of his supporters into staying at home on election day?   Plus part of the weird disconnect with his supporters to their own standards they refuse to hold him to, makes me at times think that it is the "movement" they are so invested in, the right to be legally angry and racist and so openly derogatory towards those they are prejudiced against that I think the election itself will be anti-climatic.  Because even if he wins, it still will be "over".  I think no matter how batshit these people are, I think a lot of them know the gleeful and celebratory hate and vitriol will loose much of the public festival atmosphere because once President (shudder) he won't be able to simply hit the 'rile' button as he can now. 

It is truly bizarre out there right now, no matter what happens.

[ClareWalks]

I did a half marathon today and a spectator had a homemade sign that read "Run like Trump's trying to grab your [picture of a pussycat]." It was awesome.

[Kromm]

5 hours ago, Darian said:

Do you have a link to that, or a way to find it. I'd be very happy to look it up and share it elsewhere. :) 

I have to say about Twitter, I have come to love it. I follow friends and people like Joy Reid and Deray McKesson and Neil Gaiman and Michelle Obama and organizations I support that help keep me updated on opportunities for advocacy. I rarely went on Twitter before this election, but it's helping keep me sane. Plus, in a terribly rough week, Kelly Oxford's #notokay thread where women are sharing their sexual assaults has been a great comfort. Not saying anyone should go on it, of course. But it's very different from what I thought before I started using it more actively. 

I have a belief that Twitter is inherently unhealthy for society as a whole, but at the same time selectively useful to specific interests (as in your case). It can do good, but it can also really ramp up the signal to noise ratio. 

A key for me personally is that I don't use it at ALL for my actual life (or Facebook), but I have work arounds to use them anonymously.