S04.E13: Forsaking All Others

[withanaich]

Quote

I really don't understand why when a person doesn't want to live a "conventional" lifestyle, people complain and get upset with them.  It reminds me of a show I saw years ago where there were these club kids and people in the audience were screaming at them like they were a bunch of mass murderers.  I was like, damn, maybe some of these people are projecting their anger at THEIR lifestyle choices, at these kids who really weren't hurting anybody. 

I think it's probably infuriating people because A) he came on a television show about getting married and pretends to want to "settle down" when that's not what he wants now, if ever, and B) he seems to not understand that when two people have to give and take in a relationship and one of them is used to a pretty unconventional lifestyle, then THAT is the person who is going to have to do most of the compromising. It's not exactly wrong of him to want to live on a bus and not care about jobs or money, but he should understand that most people don't want to live like that. Now maybe he was very clear with these shitty "experts" that he needed to marry a fellow nomadic free spirit, but his reaction to Lily's pretty realistic concerns makes me think otherwise.

Edited October 19, 2016 by withanaich

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

What Exactly Does Tom Have To Give Up For His Married At First Sight Second Honeymoon?

And more not-quite-burning questions about 'Forsaking All Others'!

[Empress1]

I'm not mad at tom's lifestyle - it's just not for me. (No AC in FL is a deal breaker.) I'd be through st "I live in a bus."And he needs to be with someone whose lifestyle is similar to his, I think. Lily can be with a man who doesn't want a big career but supports hers, but Tom isn't that guy. I could see them staying married even a few years, but ultimately they want incompatible things. 

[potatochips]

Here's how I think it went down in the Season 4 pre production meeting. 

Head producer: "Ok folks, we have a ton of apps and our mission today is to pick the three most explosive couples to make this show a real conversation piece. So... let's get started. First guy.... I think this dude Tom who lives on a broken down bus, loves to surf and claims he designs yacht interiors is a great pick."

Staff member: " I've got the perfect match! Here's a realtor named Lillie who hates the water! How great is that...She is trying to build a career selling property and he is irritated by people who value it! PLUS, she hates the water!!"

Head producer. Awesome. Let's work on couple number two.I've got a  guy named Derek. He says he is super laid back. Wait... is that a joint in his shirt pocket? His pictures show a crappy apartment, barely furnished including a mattress on the floor for his bed. He has tats that look like he hangs with a rough crowd but he claims he is an "Account Executive"........

Staff member: "Hey! How about this snotty flight attendant who says she knows she is attractive and who loves to shop for designer clothes. She  says she is very selective about men and has high expectations. She seems very tightly wound."

Head producer: "Done. Ok, last couple.  I've got this whiney, mumbler named Nick who says his dogs are the loves of his life. He is uncomfortable with relationships, admits he can't communicate and sleeps with the dogs."

Staff member: "Bingo! Here's a social worker named Sonia who dedicates her life energy to building relationships and communication. She's a beautiful woman who admits that she is looking for a man who will open up to her and make her feel loved. She hates dogs...."

Head producer: " We are done here! Someone call the <snort> "Experts" and tell them to spin the story!

[Neurochick]

57 minutes ago, pdlinda1 said:

I think they had very FEW men to choose from in the final casting call and Tom, Nick and Derek were IT...I think they had more appropriate women; however, as the show has been on several seasons, the number of real candidates (especially men) are probably negligible.  Not everybody is "marriage material"...especially in today's world where women don't need men for financial support and the entire concept of "marriage" has taken on a more complicated significance as it's no longer a stigma to not be married (at least from my experience) .

Also, I think the show has a limited budget and "low-balls" compensation for the production/editing staff.  That leaves more $$$ for the financial investors/producers to divvy up in the end.  Who knows, maybe these geniuses are working on a new "concept" to shill to the network as they know that this show has just about exhausted its appeal to the viewers.  In summary, other than the first season, when I think they did attract more appropriate candidates, none of the other "matches" worked out and the "experts" are truly an abomination (old and new).  

I agree with this.  Now, this show is probably attracting more fame whores and people who want to sell their "brands." 

The producers have a hard task, they have to find people who aren't psychotic, who don't have serious criminal records, who look good enough for television, who want to get married at first sight, who want the process to be filmed for a reality show and who have the time for such filming, and people whose jobs don't mind them being on a reality show.  I bet that narrows down the list to a very small group of people.  The pool is probably very small

During the matchmaking episode, one woman left because of her job, another woman left because of family pressures, and a man left because of his job.

I think that no matter what the producers do, they're going to wind up with a very small "talent" pool.

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, booboopbedoo said:

Tom needs to move to CA and find some Vapid Surfer chick - Totally!

 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I agree with this about Nick.  I don't think he has any clue how to deal with relationships.  Maybe his mother always told him he was perfect and has no need to change.  I look at Nick and he really has NO IDEA that what he said to Sonia was hurtful.  He can't say he's sorry because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

I think Nick wants to get married because he wants someone to take care of him; a woman like his mother.  He would only take from a relationship.  He wants Sonia to move back so he can continue taking from her. 

I don't think Nick was wrong in his attire, but Sonia was WAY overdressed, this isn't formal night on the Queen Mary II. 

Regarding Tom: 

I really don't understand why when a person doesn't want to live a "conventional" lifestyle, people complain and get upset with them.  It reminds me of a show I saw years ago where there were these club kids and people in the audience were screaming at them like they were a bunch of mass murderers.  I was like, damn, maybe some of these people are projecting their anger at THEIR lifestyle choices, at these kids who really weren't hurting anybody. 

Yep it seems he wants anyone who he can find to do it to step into his mommy's shoes and do what she has always done. Then put up with his tantrums aka drunken outbursts like they are nothing and it is all ok still. Sonia is not that person though. I can't tell if he really has no idea at all what he did to hurt Sonia or if he is just putting on an act like he doesn't so that way he doesn't have to really deal with it. Either way the guy has to many issues to be in a relationship with anyone at all. 

As for Tom, I think its not that he wants to live that life but more so how he comes off about it all. To me he comes off as if his opinion is the only right one on how people live. That those not living like he does are just wrong. That if you are materialistic you are wrong. IMO it shouldn't matter to him how another lives when it doesn't affect him. I could care less if he wants to live his life on a bus as long as its not in front of my place where it shouldn't be, or parked with the rest of the crazy gypsies around here in certain parking lots (yes this happens in areas where I live and they are not nice people), or sitting out in front of the post office begging for money so he can surf when he wants instead (yes there is a surf bum outside the post office here that does this). The fact is though he was matched with a girl not like him at all, it means he will have to give some and she will have to give some if they were to want to make it work. Yet I think if the show was trying to find real matches and not drama matches they would have found someone that was more of a "free spirited" type. Someone that might want to live that kind of lifestyle like him. To me this is the problem. Lily doesn't want to live on a bus and is very career driven...as well as has goals in life it seems. While Tom is less career driven (which is fine) but he has to understand then that he was matched with someone that is. She has said she is trying to find that balance of work and their relationship. Which she knows she needs to do. Yet even Tom's mom is even saying how needy he basically is. So he needs to learn to be less that way and that it can't be all about him 24/7. You would think that for someone like him though that he would take the chances to go off and surfer when she is working the weekend afternoons compared to a wife that was home with him most the time he was home and didn't like him running off to surf so much. She seems to be the more mature one in the relationship I think. She gets that there are things you have to give and take on. That marriage takes work and she has to learn to balance things out. Yet Tom doesn't seem to get all that IMO. He is to into his ways and nothing else. He came off that way from the get go too. There is nothing wrong with liking how he wants to live but because he is now married to Lily he will either have to learn to do what she is doing as well (give/take/balance/etc) or he will have to move on from their relationship and let her find someone that would appreciate what she has to offer and find someone that will appreciate what he has to offer. Since the show isn't looking to really match couples that would be compatible this is what we get. Otherwise if they had matched for compatibility it might have been more interesting to watch how that worked with someone like him and a girl similar to his lifestyle ways. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Evil Queen

[izabella]

Lily and Tom would be fools to stay together.  They have no common goals for what they want out of life and all they have is sexual chemistry, which won't last if there is nothing else holding them together.  And WHY is there no a/c on the bus?  Most buses have a/c, so it must not be working?  Sorry, Tom, but your bus is gross for so many reasons and not fit for travel, much less to live in. 

Nick and Sonia - nope, no way they will stay together.  There is literally nothing about them that would make them a couple, much less a good couple, and even less a married couple. 

[kira28]

Tom is a, self centered asshole.  He seems tired of lily.  He needs way too much attention.  He's going to screw up her career with his immature demands. No ac in the summer and lily is a whiner.  I would have refused to ride  in that piece of crap.  Was it just me or is the windshield all cracked??  

All three men on this show have one thing in common.. They are extremely immature and seem like teenage boys, in comparison to their wives.  I don't believe Nick complimented Sonia when he saw her in that dress.  For one she didn't react and secondly his back was to the camera and he appeared to be putting chapstick on.. I think they dubbed that in.  I think the majority of Sonia talking heads were from right after the wedding or honeymoon.  Does Nick not get to wear his shirts unless Sonia moves back in?  Is he missing out on showing off his rental unless Sonia moves in?, what is his rush? He can't even stand to be near her and she looks so nervous around him like she's terrified he will say something hurtful and trash her self esteem again.   I feel bad for all the women on this show.  Like David levels of pity.  Heather was the luckiest woman of this group to get the hell outta there

[PityFree]

This season of the show is sooooooo bad. You know what I want to find out during the decision episode? Not if either couple will stay together. I only care to find out if Sonia got a new toothbrush to replace the horrible, worn down one, with spayed bristles that we saw a week ago. 

Sonia -divorce Nick and get a new toothbrush! Treat yourself!

[bichonblitz]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I really don't understand why when a person doesn't want to live a "conventional" lifestyle, people complain and get upset with them.  It reminds me of a show I saw years ago where there were these club kids and people in the audience were screaming at them like they were a bunch of mass murderers.  I was like, damn, maybe some of these people are projecting their anger at THEIR lifestyle choices, at these kids who really weren't hurting anybody. 

I think the problem is that Tom is the one complaining about people not wanting to live his lifestyle.  He's not flexible, he's a know it all and he doesn't even try to understand Lily's choices and it's pissing a lot of us off. If he was a nice guy that understood that it takes two people to compromise and work things out so both are happy in the realationship, people wouldn't have a problem with however he chooses to live, what ever bus he live in or how much he surfs and snorkles.  The guy is just a dick.  

[gonecrackers]

I haven't seen the show yet but saw the pics above. Maybe they told Sonia to wear that to 'show him what he's missing' (or advertise to men for when the show is over), but really it just seems like she's pathetically trying too hard.

Or, she's taking fashion hints from Heather...

And a bus with no a/c in summer  & Lily is the 'whiner'? ?

I agree that Lily should run... run far, run fast. But I don't think she will, at least not for a while yet.

Edited October 19, 2016 by gonecrackers

[red12]

What got me about Tom and his alternative medicine bully attempt was 1) It is her body not yours. She has told you through words and body language that you are overstepping. So, stop it.

2) I believe alternative medical therapies are helpful for some people for some things. But, that doesn't mean herbs, chiropractic manipulation or acupuncture should be used to treat a separated shoulder. Use the appropriate tool for the appropriate job. AND 3) Again, it's her body. Shut up.

*I must also note that I have experienced a severe shoulder separation (AC and CC ligaments torn with the AC joint visibly out of position) and had to go without surgery for about 3 months because of treatment of another injury. The only options are risking a painkiller addiction or fixing the problem via surgery, a brace and rehab.

I would have lost my SHIT and wanted to murder this fool for pursuing the conversation he did with Lily. She has the patience of Job.

Edited October 19, 2016 by red12

[call me ishmael]

I agree that Lily should run away but my guess is that they will stay together at 6 week divorce dance.  I think that the producers have been emphasizing Tom's reluctance to create some suspense for next week.  I would be more skeptical if they ended on a high note.  Hopefully Nick and Sonia have the sense to bail.  But they both want to look like they are giving it their best shot.  Personally i think that they should all bail so that the experts can explain why it had nothing to do with their great matching skills but only because the couples didn't understand that even though they have no shared history they needed to simply trust the process as if they had been married for years.

and am i the only one who thought that it was very strange that Dr. Pepper, a sociologist, would decide that a couple having trouble balancing work and home would be able to solve that problem by artificial removing work from the equation?  Oh, Dr. Pepper, so misunderstood...

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I'm not mad at tom's lifestyle - it's just not for me. (No AC in FL is a deal breaker.) I'd be through st "I live in a bus."And he needs to be with someone whose lifestyle is similar to his, I think. Lily can be with a man who doesn't want a big career but supports hers, but Tom isn't that guy. I could see them staying married even a few years, but ultimately they want incompatible things. 

Yep--OMG that was my thought exactly--NO AC IN FLORIDA??? He could be Adonis I dont care that would be a deal breaker, LOL. OMG.

[nlkm9]

OMG There is no way Sonia would stay is there? She wont even move back in with him yet--if there was ever going to be sex, or even some sexy kissing, it would have been after their date and her wearing her boobie dress. He simply is NOT attracted to her, he wont even hold her hand, its so sad. I so hope she moves on because nothing is happening there at all and she needs a demonstrative guy.<paging david from last season,lol>

[peaceknit]

Nick is so totally clueless. When they were entering the restaurant, instead of standing back and opening the door for her, he walks behind her and makes her walk under his arm. Except for that peck at the end, he shows zero physical affection, not even holding her hand, putting his arm around her, nothing. When Sonia showed him that she was wearing her ring, his affect was so flat. That was the time for him to go in for a smooch, anything! But nada. He treats her like a sister, not a wife. 

Sonia, divorce this jackass. You can do much better!

[Vinyasa]

Quote

 If I were one of the experts, I'd tell Nick and Sonia that if they want to stay together they need to live separately, and DATE first. 

Living separately and dating is not this show!

Sorry but they agreed to get "married at first sight" so they are stuck being married and should be living together for the six weeks!

[Matty]

Sonia gets dressed up in her hot dress and does her hair and makeup and really tries to get Nick's attention. Stupid Nick wears jeans, t-shirt and a hoodie. Great effort, Nick. He is ridiculous and boring to boot. Why does Sonia care at all? Maybe she's sticking it out until the end and will be able to get a divorce after the six week "experiment" and leave Nick with his dogs. The dogs are the only thing he shows any sign of interest in. Sonia stop trying. As for Tom, another boring, selfish guy. Lily was trying so hard on that bus ride. He says she's high maintenance. It seems that Sonia and Lily have to do all the compromising, fitting in, and sublimating of themselves for these man-boys. Nick and Tom are not worth the time or energy. Please let Lily and Sonia decide to divorce them next week and move on. Nick can live with his dogs the rest of his life. Tom can live on his freaking bus and surf all day. I'm sick of both of them.

[Snewtsie]

I don't dislike Tom.  I grew up in a beach community & knew a lot of guys like him.  Surfing is a religion & they lived in a van or a shack because that was the lifestyle they wanted.

I do, however, think he needs to be more aware that he uses words which are very judgmental.  Lily has a strong work ethic- this does not make her neurotic.  She doesn't want sweat rolling down her chest- this does not make her prissy.  She wants to sleep in a bed without a backache afterward- this does not make her a whiny complainer.  He wants her to embrace everything about him, but clearly resists embracing everything about her.

BTW, all those guy I knew that were just like Tom ...they all married perfectly nice gals ...who later divorced them.  Those guys just never wanted to grow up & take on the responsibilities that come with marriage & family, and they never wanted to compromise.  But you know, they never misrepresented themselves.  It was the gals they married who assumed they would evolve.  Tom is not misrepresenting himself now.  He is being very honest.  I hope Lily understands it will be up to her to constantly adjust her life to meet his expectations.  Having personally married someone like Tom (and later divorced them), it's a very persona non grata position to be in because it's not balanced.  She will always have to bend to what he wants, and he will always subtly criticize her for what she wants that's different.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Snewtsie

[Snewtsie]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

I think the problem is that Tom is the one complaining about people not wanting to live his lifestyle.  He's not flexible, he's a know it all and he doesn't even try to understand Lily's choices and it's pissing a lot of us off. 

THIS x10.

[BunnySlippers]

I don't even understand why Tom wanted to get married. Unless he stipulated that he only wanted a free spirit like himself who would love to live in his bus, who loves to surf and doesn't bring home any work, and the "experts" still matched him with someone who is not like that at all, then he has no right to complain. What exactly did he expect otherwise? Most women, when they want to get married, would want a home they can feel comfortable in and where they can raise their kids. It's not Lilly's fault that that's what she wants. That does not make her prissy and high maintenance. And as for Lilly working so much, like it was mentioned before, when you're an immigrant without some nice big inheritance to rely on, you have to work hard to create the financial security you want. Not just for yourself, but also for your future kids. Yes, Tom has the right to live a carefree lifestyle, but then he shouldn't have signed up for this show. And he shouldn't put Lilly down just because she doesn't have the same goals as he. I also agree that it's been Lilly who's been compromising. Tom talks the talk but all he wants is for his needs to be met and he doesn't care what she wants.

I think, too, that all this negative talk from Tom now is to throw the viewers off, but they will stay married at the six week mark. Long term, though, I don't think their marriage is going to work. And the sooner Lilly realizes that, the better it's going to be for her.

I don't know about Nick and Sonia. I think it could go either way, since she keeps talking about not wanting to give up. I guess we'll see next week. But OMG, more than two hours for the next episode? I think we'll be in recap hell.

[peaceknit]

Yeah, I've done a 180 on Tom and Lily. He did a great job of reeling her in on the honeymoon, but once home, the truth comes out. Lily used to smile all the time at the beginning. Now, she seems like she is barely tolerating Tom. When Tom's mom told her that he was a needy guy, her eyes were opened. Maybe Moms was warning her. And dude, she didn't ask your opinion about her shoulder surgery! I also think Tom is a little too cheap thrifty for Lily. They are not compatible. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by peaceknit

[LouiseBrooks]

Sorry if someone already said this, but personally think Nick was reacting less to how hot she looked in the "freakum" dress than to her being so insanely overdressed v. him. It felt more like, "whoa, thought we were just running out for tapas" than "whoa, my wife's a major hottie." And feels like the experts are desperately trying to boost their woeful success rate with these late-season love-reminder trips. Whatever. This season has been so boring. They should really all divorce - they're all so mis-matched.

[Trixie Belden]

It might be just me, but it's weird that Dr. Pepper seems to always put blame on the wives in these marriages.  She lectures Lilly on work/life balance and curbing her electronic use without also telling Tom that he has to understand that this is Lilly's job.  She tells Sonia she has to move back in with Nick without also addressing the behavior that caused her to leave in the first place.  It seems to me that in the past seasons she's usually been harsh on the women without uttering a word against the men.

Tom can eat a bag of dicks for his bullshit "road trip" in his hoopty bus.  There was NOTHING to accomodate Lilly on that trip, he almost went out of his way to do things that made her uncomfortable and then said she was "ignorant" because she didn't want to explore alternative medicine for an injury that can't be healed without surgery.  They want fundamentally different things in their life and he tries to shame her for not being just like him.  

I just want Sonia to divorce Nick and then I can introduce her to my son.  

[watch2much]

While I think watching Nick and Sonia is painful, I think there may be some genuine caring there.  I think maybe off camera they may interact better.  Nick just always looks so uncomfortable on camera and for that matter so does Sonia.  She admits she finds him funny and they seem comfortable together at times.  I kind of think they could work out the rest.  You know, like some women who gave up hoping their mates would pick nice gifts for them and so just go out and buy what they want and tell their spouse to wrap it.  But they appreciate that their husbands make sure the oil is changed in her car....

Lilly, however, should RUN FOR THE HILLS.  Tom's constant picking and her desire to make him happy (and believe me, he will never be happy) will wear her down until she'll become a shadow of her former self.  I was married to someone like that.  I had a profession, dressed nicely, was happy and married someone who seemed to "care" enormously about me.  Then the constant nit-picking began and nothing made him happy anymore.  When I finally went to a divorce lawyer. I was wearing a $12 dress from dollar general.  You don't realize it's happening. Everything has to be Tom's way.  There's nothing wrong with the way Lilly is and if she loses her profession, she'll be dependent on him.  She can find someone to experience new things with without giving up her own identity.

[Haute Messe]

Am I the only one that was worried about that little dog being locked in the non-A/C bus?

Although Sonia was overdressed, Nick - is clueless. A decent shirt would have been more acceptable than what he was wearing. Maybe he thought getting ready to go out was putting in eyedrops and lip balm.

[Haute Messe]

7 minutes ago, watch2much said:

While I think watching Nick and Sonia is painful, I think there may be some genuine caring there.  I think maybe off camera they may interact better.  Nick just always looks so uncomfortable on camera and for that matter so does Sonia.  She admits she finds him funny and they seem comfortable together at times.  I kind of think they could work out the rest.  You know, like some women who gave up hoping their mates would pick nice gifts for them and so just go out and buy what they want and tell their spouse to wrap it.  But they appreciate that their husbands make sure the oil is changed in her car....

Lilly, however, should RUN FOR THE HILLS.  Tom's constant picking and her desire to make him happy (and believe me, he will never be happy) will wear her down until she'll become a shadow of her former self.  I was married to someone like that.  I had a profession, dressed nicely, was happy and married someone who seemed to "care" enormously about me.  Then the constant nit-picking began and nothing made him happy anymore.  When I finally went to a divorce lawyer. I was wearing a $12 dress from dollar general.  You don't realize it's happening. Everything has to be Tom's way.  There's nothing wrong with the way Lilly is and if she loses her profession, she'll be dependent on him.  She can find someone to experience new things with without giving up her own identity.

+1 to all of this.

[LennieBriscoe]

Tom is on a re-vamped---minimally so, heh---bus, not an RV, never mind a Rock 'n' Roll tour bus. He follows the waves, walks in the dirt, and ignores the scorching sun. 

The "experts" should have paired him with "Wilson"!

[BunnySlippers]

19 minutes ago, lizajane said:

Am I the only one that was worried about that little dog being locked in the non-A/C bus?

Although Sonia was overdressed, Nick - is clueless. A decent shirt would have been more acceptable than what he was wearing. Maybe he thought getting ready to go out was putting in eyedrops and lip balm.

I was very sorry for the dog. I don't know how hot it got in that bus, but they just left him there all by himself and I was concerned for him.

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

and am i the only one who thought that it was very strange that Dr. Pepper, a sociologist, would decide that a couple having trouble balancing work and home would be able to solve that problem by artificial removing work from the equation?  Oh, Dr. Pepper, so misunderstood...

This is the same woman that is telling all of them how a marriage should work and what kind of work needs to go into it so it can be successful...meanwhile ask her about how her own marriage went...not who they should listen to IMO.

2 hours ago, peaceknit said:

Nick is so totally clueless. When they were entering the restaurant, instead of standing back and opening the door for her, he walks behind her and makes her walk under his arm. Except for that peck at the end, he shows zero physical affection, not even holding her hand, putting his arm around her, nothing. When Sonia showed him that she was wearing her ring, his affect was so flat. That was the time for him to go in for a smooch, anything! But nada. He treats her like a sister, not a wife. 

Sonia, divorce this jackass. You can do much better!

I would bet that peck was at the pushing of producers off to the side telling him too do it. It really seems to be the only way that stuff happens. I will bet they pressured her, along with the "experts" on putting at least the ring back on. 

2 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

I don't dislike Tom.  I grew up in a beach community & knew a lot of guys like him.  Surfing is a religion & they lived in a van or a shack because that was the lifestyle they wanted.

I do, however, think he needs to be more aware that he uses words which are very judgmental.  Lily has a strong work ethic- this does not make her neurotic.  She doesn't want sweat rolling down her chest- this does not make her prissy.  She wants to sleep in a bed without a backache afterward- this does not make her a whiny complainer.  He wants her to embrace everything about him, but clearly resists embracing everything about her.

BTW, all those guy I knew that were just like Tom ...they all married perfectly nice gals ...who later divorced them.  Those guys just never wanted to grow up & take on the responsibilities that come with marriage & family, and they never wanted to compromise.  But you know, they never misrepresented themselves.  It was the gals they married who assumed they would evolve.  Tom is not misrepresenting himself now.  He is being very honest.  I hope Lily understands it will be up to her to constantly adjust her life to meet his expectations.  Having personally married someone like Tom (and later divorced them), it's a very persona non grata position to be in because it's not balanced.  She will always have to bend to what he wants, and he will always subtly criticize her for what she wants that's different.

I dated a guy like that one. While he was really cute, I knew he was not relationship material but more a guy to have fun with. That was it and that was all it was for us. BTW, he lived in a camper out in Malibu. It was a 1000 times better looking than Tom's bus was that is for sure. He even had a nice view of the ocean too. LOL Guys like this are so not marriage material. At least not unless they are either willing to give up certain ways or find someone that is just like them and wants to be that way for life too. 

51 minutes ago, Trixie Belden said:

It might be just me, but it's weird that Dr. Pepper seems to always put blame on the wives in these marriages.  She lectures Lilly on work/life balance and curbing her electronic use without also telling Tom that he has to understand that this is Lilly's job.  She tells Sonia she has to move back in with Nick without also addressing the behavior that caused her to leave in the first place.  It seems to me that in the past seasons she's usually been harsh on the women without uttering a word against the men.

Tom can eat a bag of dicks for his bullshit "road trip" in his hoopty bus.  There was NOTHING to accomodate Lilly on that trip, he almost went out of his way to do things that made her uncomfortable and then said she was "ignorant" because she didn't want to explore alternative medicine for an injury that can't be healed without surgery.  They want fundamentally different things in their life and he tries to shame her for not being just like him.  

I just want Sonia to divorce Nick and then I can introduce her to my son.  

Last season it was blame on Neil and David over their crappy wives being called out for their crap. She is one of the worse IMO. She has no clue about marriage when she walks out on her own. I can't believe anyone would trust her advice on marriage and how to make one work. Pepper and the other "experts" will never address the real issues because they would have no clue how to do so IMO. Instead they rather blame the one that shouldn't for the problems going on. They are more worried about themselves and how they look than anything while not understanding that most us watching see they are crappy in their jobs. 

LMAO over the Tom comment. He is such an ass at this point. And Sonia totally needs to divorce Nick. 

46 minutes ago, watch2much said:

While I think watching Nick and Sonia is painful, I think there may be some genuine caring there.  I think maybe off camera they may interact better.  Nick just always looks so uncomfortable on camera and for that matter so does Sonia.  She admits she finds him funny and they seem comfortable together at times.  I kind of think they could work out the rest.  You know, like some women who gave up hoping their mates would pick nice gifts for them and so just go out and buy what they want and tell their spouse to wrap it.  But they appreciate that their husbands make sure the oil is changed in her car....

I don't see it. The only time he seems a little semi human is when he is drunk. That is also when he has his tantrums as well. Its not a way for someone to live. He has some major issues to deal with. I do not think she should have to move past what he said at all when it is obvious he meant it and isn't attracted to her at all. Those are words you don't move past and more so when he acts the same as he had before. 

[Cherrio]

I actually think Tom and Nick would be a great couple.

[bichonblitz]

22 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Tom can eat a bag of dicks for his bullshit "road trip" in his hoopty bus.

Omg, I'm dying!. Best sentence I have ever read. Can't. Stop.Laughing...

[LennieBriscoe]

"hoopty bus"!!

I keep saying that out loud!

[nlkm9]

I still want to know how Lily with her "shoulder that needs surgery" went ziplining, surfing, etc. sad thing is I like them together but everyone is right--its all about Tom. To say Lily is complaining about no AC? OMG I feel sorry for her:(

[princelina]

 Here's the thing about Nick -- I've never thought he was gay or anything, it's just that he CAN'T or WON'T say one nice thing to Sonia!  WTF - I don't get it.  I understand the point of view that he's a child, but even children are able to say things like 

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to hurt your feelings; I miss you; you look pretty; I wish you'd come home; you're so nice; that was fun; I'm glad you're here; I was hoping you'd show up; I'd enjoy that; I'd love to do that with you; you're so fun/funny; I'm really happy; I'm glad you're here; i was wondering where you were; I wish you were here for ___; you missed ___; etc, etc.

My one-year-old nephew can say that without being verbal yet!  And Nick has been told how - his mom, his stepfather and his friend have all told him.  "Expert" Rachel said something like, "If it were required of him, he would do it."  So apparently no one has "required" it yet. Wouldn't be enough for me -- run, Sonia, run!!! :(

[MsPH]

On 19/10/2016 at 3:10 AM, Straycat80 said:

Oh look PDA From Nick! He put his arm around Sonia and kissed her forehead when she was leaving to go home.

He did that last week as well. I remember because I'd complained about his inability to show any sort of physical affection the previous week and then he did and I was like woah, he's not totally hopeless. Seems like that's as good as it gets though. I actually think he does like Sonia to some extent and even though I'd like to see them work out, I totally get why Sonia's pretty much over it. It doesn't matter if he likes her, if he's unable to show any affection towards her. Some people just aren't affectionate and I don't think Sonia would be happy with someone like that, in fact not many would. It's not even that he's not physically affectionate, he also seems incapable of saying anything nice or affirmative. Definitely one of the most closed-off people I've seen on TV. Sonia deserves better.

Tom annoys me as well. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, in fact he reminds me of my brother-in-law in many ways. My BIL is a good guy, just not someone I could ever see myself with, but my sister is very happy with him and that's all that matters. There's someone out there for everyone and I think Lilly could be that someone for Tom, if he'd just realise he needs to compromise and stop thinking he's above us mere mortals. He was so obnoxious about the alternative medicine thing. I do believe alternative medicine can help with some health issues and modern medicine isn't always necessary, but when it's a mechanical problem like torn ligaments or whatever she said it was, then it's not something you can fix by non-invasive means. That is what she was trying to explain by saying she's been to medical school and understands the science behind it, but he just wouldn't listen and then had the nerve to complain about her not listening. Just take a seat, Tom. You don't always know better.

I must say it was so refreshing to watch an episode without Heather and Derek lingering around like a bad smell.

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

 Here's the thing about Nick -- I've never thought he was gay or anything, it's just that he CAN'T or WON'T say one nice thing to Sonia!  WTF - I don't get it.  I understand the point of view that he's a child, but even children are able to say things like 

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to hurt your feelings; I miss you; you look pretty; I wish you'd come home; you're so nice; that was fun; I'm glad you're here; I was hoping you'd show up; I'd enjoy that; I'd love to do that with you; you're so fun/funny; I'm really happy; I'm glad you're here; i was wondering where you were; I wish you were here for ___; you missed ___; etc, etc.

My one-year-old nephew can say that without being verbal yet!  And Nick has been told how - his mom, his stepfather and his friend have all told him.  "Expert" Rachel said something like, "If it were required of him, he would do it."  So apparently no one has "required" it yet. Wouldn't be enough for me -- run, Sonia, run!!! :(

See that is the thing he HAS to be TOLD to say something nice. He can never do it on his own. Of course he has no issues saying mean things though. He has done that a few times to her. I think in order to have him say anything nice he would have to have a handler of sorts for that to happen ever. I still don't believe he is into women though...especially Sonia. He has never been into her and never will be. I don't think she should look back but just keep going forward away from him. Nick not only blurts things to be straight out mean but he is also showing he has a drinking problem. Which the scenes of him looking like he is going to throw up...I figure he is either trying to not burp out loud or he had to much and wants to actually throw up. If he ever really wants a relationship with someone at all he will have to grow the hell up, learn to speak/think for himself, the temper and take care of the drinking issue.

[Snarklepuss]

9 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

I don't dislike Tom.  I grew up in a beach community & knew a lot of guys like him.  Surfing is a religion & they lived in a van or a shack because that was the lifestyle they wanted.

You just reminded me of the movie "I Love You, Man".  Tom is like Sydney, whereas the man Lilly should have been matched with is more like Peter!

This "opposites attract" stuff is only surface deep in romantic relationships in a lot of cases.  Not all opposites complement each other, and most people are better matched with someone similar to them.  This I say after years of studying relationships and studies about the personality types of successful matches.  Most of the time opposites clash, and it turns into a real deal breaker.  If Tom and Lilly were just friends I'd say they might have a chance at remaining friends, but not as a married couple.  This show is starting to bug me with this opposite matching every season.  It's obviously part of the gimmick, like that excellent post brought out up thread.  They probably hope for sensational sparks flying in one way or another.  Either way, whether it's positive or negative, they think it's great fodder for TV.

And ITA with everyone posting about how the "experts" are all quacks and going along with it for the fame and money.  I posted constantly about how unprofessional they all were in seasons past.  So now this season they get a "pastor" instead of a psychologist.  He has a litany of credentials on his website but some of it is vague and sketchy and he seems self made at best.  If all of that is true why would he have gotten involved with this shitty show?  Makes me wonder.

[timeywimey]

8 hours ago, MsPH said:

He did that last week as well. I remember because I'd complained about his inability to show any sort of physical affection the previous week and then he did and I was like woah, he's not totally hopeless. Seems like that's as good as it gets though. I actually think he does like Sonia to some extent and even though I'd like to see them work out, I totally get why Sonia's pretty much over it. It doesn't matter if he likes her, if he's unable to show any affection towards her. Some people just aren't affectionate and I don't think Sonia would be happy with someone like that, in fact not many would. It's not even that he's not physically affectionate, he also seems incapable of saying anything nice or affirmative. Definitely one of the most closed-off people I've seen on TV. Sonia deserves better.

Tom annoys me as well. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, in fact he reminds me of my brother-in-law in many ways. My BIL is a good guy, just not someone I could ever see myself with, but my sister is very happy with him and that's all that matters. There's someone out there for everyone and I think Lilly could be that someone for Tom, if he'd just realise he needs to compromise and stop thinking he's above us mere mortals. He was so obnoxious about the alternative medicine thing. I do believe alternative medicine can help with some health issues and modern medicine isn't always necessary, but when it's a mechanical problem like torn ligaments or whatever she said it was, then it's not something you can fix by non-invasive means. That is what she was trying to explain by saying she's been to medical school and understands the science behind it, but he just wouldn't listen and then had the nerve to complain about her not listening. Just take a seat, Tom. You don't always know better.

I must say it was so refreshing to watch an episode without Heather and Derek lingering around like a bad smell.

Heh, yeah, a bad smell of cannibis and misery!

[LennieBriscoe]

The producers looked at "The Bachelor" long-running franchise and said:

"Let's take just the ending and run with it! Multiply the couples, have them marry, and let the hijinks ensue! Nobody cares if 'The Bachelor' or 'Bachelorette' couples live happily ever after, and nobody will care about ours! Go for drama, get the ratings, and grab the cash! Rinse, lather, repeat!"

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

And ITA with everyone posting about how the "experts" are all quacks and going along with it for the fame and money.  I posted constantly about how unprofessional they all were in seasons past.  So now this season they get a "pastor" instead of a psychologist.  He has a litany of credentials on his website but some of it is vague and sketchy and he seems self made at best.  If all of that is true why would he have gotten involved with this shitty show?  Makes me wonder.

It's all about the money.  This show isn't a "social experiment" at all; this show is nothing but entertainment, and in reality that is what all "shows" are.  

The reality is that many, many people will go to one of these so called "experts" just because they saw them on TV.  I once knew an OBGYN who was on TV a few times and now she's in LA, making big money as an "OBGYN to the stars," no joke.

[qtpye]

This season really has been a total bust.  Usually, I have some curiosity about decision day, but I would not be surprised if I forget to watch next week, because that is how little I care.

They have to do better with the matches next season, if they want to keep viewer interest.

My advise is, forget about trying to find the photogenic bachelor looking type people.  Try to find some earnest people who are open to the process.  Having real emotions at stake is what keeps the audience invested.

I really do not see a connection between any of the remaining couples.  Lily and Tom's initial sexual chemistry is being shattered by reality and I do not think his surfer dude beach bum lifestyle is a good fit for her.  In fact, I hope they do not stay together, as I do not consider them a good match and think they would be happier with other people.  They are both relatively young (though Tom looks 40) and it should not really be that big of an issue.

However, my prediction for next week is that they stay together and Tom announces that he is going to give up that nasty bus for Lily.  This will probably be due to producer manipulation and a desire to get that Married at First Sight: First Year pay day.

[Snarklepuss]

26 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

It's all about the money.  This show isn't a "social experiment" at all; this show is nothing but entertainment, and in reality that is what all "shows" are. 

You're right, this show passes itself off as a legitimate social experiment when truthfully it is just a reality show with all the attendant producer manipulation designed to produce maximum drama.  There is absolutely nothing "legitimate" or scientific about it.  I posted non stop for 2 seasons about how unscientific their so-called testing was.  Cilona was the one pushing the "instruments", but even if they were ones used to legitimately assess personality they are not designed to MATCH people.  That's a huge leap right there and I don't even think they paid the proper attention to the results anyway and just matched based on maximum conflict, then tried to schmooze the audience into thinking that couples need to compensate for each others' weaknesses or help to "balance" or "draw out" the other, which is BS because we all know how that works out in reality.  Can opposites balance each other out?  Sure, it can happen, but it only happens when the couples want it to happen (which even in the natural state doesn't happen that often), not when they are thrown into the situation against what would have been their real wishes.  I don't doubt that Lilly would be best paired with an "easygoing" type of guy, but not to the extreme that Tom is in every aspect of his life.  There are plenty of easygoing guys who are more conventional and have similar values about career, etc. that Lilly would work better with.

[Evil Queen]

10 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

And ITA with everyone posting about how the "experts" are all quacks and going along with it for the fame and money.  I posted constantly about how unprofessional they all were in seasons past.  So now this season they get a "pastor" instead of a psychologist.  He has a litany of credentials on his website but some of it is vague and sketchy and he seems self made at best.  If all of that is true why would he have gotten involved with this shitty show?  Makes me wonder.

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

It's all about the money.  This show isn't a "social experiment" at all; this show is nothing but entertainment, and in reality that is what all "shows" are.  

The reality is that many, many people will go to one of these so called "experts" just because they saw them on TV.  I once knew an OBGYN who was on TV a few times and now she's in LA, making big money as an "OBGYN to the stars," no joke.

It is all about the money and what they can get out of this..if anything. Which the Pastor has been on another show before this. So seeing that info before this season even started I knew he was just there for more tv time and nothing else. The other one, Rachel, is hoping for more to come I am sure. Yet she was a lawyer at one point and now a so called "life coach"....which is a joke. Pepper I am sure is loving all her paychecks she has had from this show and probably sold whatever crap advice and anything else she could to others as well. Its been said before by others but there is no way in hell a real expert would touch this show or any reality show. 

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

This season really has been a total bust.  Usually, I have some curiosity about decision day, but I would not be surprised if I forget to watch next week, because that is how little I care.

They have to do better with the matches next season, if they want to keep viewer interest.

My advise is, forget about trying to find the photogenic bachelor looking type people.  Try to find some earnest people who are open to the process.  Having real emotions at stake is what keeps the audience invested.

The next season will be the same as the others though. They do not care to really match people for the right reasons. They want to match for the max drama they might get from whoever. If it isn't going the way the "experts" want they will bully the person taking the crap already into staying and sticking it out. It will end up the same as it has been each season but with new couples. Which I can not understand for the life of me why on earth people would want to do this show ever after they watch it.  Not one of these couples should have been matched together though. IF by chance Lily is stupid enough to stay with Tom I doubt they will have made it 6 months. Which btw, I don't think there is a guarantee that doing this show and staying together will give you a 1st year season. Plus doing it off one couple would get old quick. I can't see Sonia and Nick working out at all either. She would come off pathetic as well if she stays with him. 

[okerry]

On 10/19/2016 at 6:57 AM, CaptainCranky said:

I thought this might be the most insipid show I'd seen on reality TV and then while I was surfing the other night I saw a few minutes of "90 day fiancé" and boy was I wrong. That has got to be the worst reality show in history.

At least this show has reasonably nice looking people whereas that show is fat butt ugly people they are trying to hook up with losers.

Oh, c'mon - give it a try! If you like Trash TV, 90-Day Financial is much more fun than this depressing borefest. Then join us on the PTV forum for even more fun snarking over it. 

[nlkm9]

  On 10/19/2016 at 7:57 AM, CaptainCranky said:

I thought this might be the most insipid show I'd seen on reality TV and then while I was surfing the other night I saw a few minutes of "90 day fiancé" and boy was I wrong. That has got to be the worst reality show in history.

At least this show has reasonably nice looking people whereas that show is fat butt ugly people they are trying to hook up with losers.

Oh, c'mon - give it a try! If you like Trash TV, 90-Day Financial is much more fun than this depressing borefest. Then join us on the PTV forum for even more fun snarking over it. 

what is PTV and when can i catch 90 day financial?? lol

[Drogo]

Information and discussion for 90 Day Fiance can be located here. 

Let's keep it off the MAFS boards.  Many of these posters have been fortunate enough to avoid contraction of the 90DF illness.

[ChristmasJones]

The most telling moment in this episode for me was when Sonia was sitting in the chair with the dog on her lap and she showed Nick that she had put her wedding ring back on. Nick then leaned down, and you would think it would be for a hug or kiss, but no, instead, he hugged and kissed his dog.

If I was more technologically savvy I would make that clip into a video and tweet it to Sonia.

[nlkm9]

yes there were so many moments he could have leaned in for a kiss and it would have been so sweet.  and technically, they have only known each other 5 weeks--for folks that are dating and attracted to each other it is like Tom and Lily kissing all the time. Nick just simply does not like her, or maybe likes her as a sister.

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

Information and discussion for 90 Day Fiance can be located here. 

Let's keep it off the MAFS boards.  Many of these posters have been fortunate enough to avoid contraction of the 90DF illness.

hahah I already watch it--they said 90 day financial and I thought it was a different show! ha!

[Negritude]

14 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

This "opposites attract" stuff is only surface deep in romantic relationships in a lot of cases.  Not all opposites complement each other, and most people are better matched with someone similar to them.  This I say after years of studying relationships and studies about the personality types of successful matches.  Most of the time opposites clash, and it turns into a real deal breaker.  

This! I actually do attract my opposite more often than not, but I'm really seeking someone who's more like me lol. Ideally, I'd like to be with someone who is just different enough to make things interesting but is ultimately on the same wavelength. That opposites attract stuff is...I don't know. I guess it works for some people.