S03.E04: Mad City: New Day Rising

[formerlyfreedom]

Penguin gains power as he narrows in on the nomination for Mayor of Gotham. Meanwhile, Gordon turns Alice into the GCPD for the bounty. Also, Bruce and Alfred race to find Bruce’s doppleganger after learning he’s assumed Bruce’s identity.

 

[Primetimer]

And more questions sparked by the episode!

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[Lantern7]

"Masked wrestlers invading the station? Must be Monday." The 28 Days Later homage at the end? That I didn't see coming. Sucks to be Barnes.

Looks like Clone!Monster!Bruce is gonna learn to give a hoot. Nice that Selina figured things out. Shame that she wasn't more discrete trying to rip people off.

Damn, the Oswald/Ed ship is on fire. Framed sanity certificates? Man . . . when's the wedding? And now we have a feud between Ed and Butch. Lucky for Butch that he's a character that's been around for almost seven- . . . oh. Buh bye, Butch, I reckon.

Jervis saying that he wouldn't know what to do without Alice . . . it's like the writers don't give a crap anymore. I guess that's part of the appeal of this show.

[Chaos Theory]

Jim Gordon having thoughts.  That is troubling.

I rather enjoy the Penguin/Nygma pairing.  

NotBruce has all kinds of moves doesn't he?  The one thing I found troubling was Selina realizing that she was dealing with NotBruce after she saw his body,  How many times has she seen Bruce's body.   <Grabs pearls in horror!!!!!>

[Spartan Girl]

Guess this is the beginning of the end for Barnes.

You know what? I'm glad Jim lashed out at Lee for moving on so quickly. Yes she lost the baby, which was undoubtedly horrible, but she didn't have a right to act all hurt that he was being so cold to her. She was the one that moved away without even telling him about the miscarriage, got engaged to another man, and acted like nothing had ever happened between them when they saw each other again. At least the whiny Barbara 1.0 left him a DearJohn note.

Did anyone get shades of Drumpf watching Penguin's campaign? I swear his face was slightly orange...

[immortalfrieza]

29 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

"Masked wrestlers invading the station? Must be Monday."

"GCPD getting their asses kicked effortlessly by a bunch of guys with no superpowers because nobody can actually shoot... must be another episode of Gotham."

Seriously, HOW many times have bad guys waltzed right into the GCPD and curbstomped the entire precinct effortlessly now? I lost count a long time ago. Alice would have been safer hiding out in some random cardboard box than she would have been in the GCPD.

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Damn, the Oswald/Ed ship is on fire. Framed sanity certificates? Man . . . when's the wedding? And now we have a feud between Ed and Butch. Lucky for Butch that he's a character that's been around for almost seven- . . . oh. Buh bye, Butch, I reckon.

I STILL have seen nothing that gives any reason why Butch is working with Penguin, he just seems to be doing it to give the character something to do until he inevitably gets killed off.

NotBruce seems more and more like the kind of character RealBruce should have been, cold, methodical, and has some actual fighting skills. Of course, the Court of Owls is going to try to use NotBruce to replace RealBruce, that "twist" is all too predictable.

It's good Selina figured out NotBruce wasn't Bruce in the space of about 5 minutes, luckily for him RealBruce is just as painfully awkward and spacey as NotBruce is or she probably would have figured it out sooner.

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Guess this is the beginning of the end for Barnes.

You know what? I'm glad Jim lashed out at Lee for moving on so quickly. Yes she lost the baby, which was undoubtedly horrible, but she didn't have a right to act all hurt that he was being so cold to her. She was the one that moved away without even telling him about the miscarriage, got engaged to another man, and acted like nothing had ever happened between them when they saw each other again. At least the whiny Barbara 1.0 left him a DearJohn note.

Yeah, it seems like Gordon has a knack for picking self righteous blindingly hypocritical girlfriends that walk all over him, and the narrative keeps acting like Gordon is at fault for what these women do a lot.

[Artsda]

I loved Ed un-rigging the election and Oswald winning. 

LOL Alfred regarding the kissing questions. "Oh bloody hell."

I loved the Barbara/Gordon scenes. They're so fun to play off each other now with dark Gordon.

Kinda like Gordon calling Lee out on moving on instantly.

Selina was dumb, not figuring out that wasn't Bruce until she saw the scars.

[Philbert]

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Did anyone get shades of Drumpf watching Penguin's campaign? I swear his face was slightly orange...

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who picked up on that vibe. The good thing about this election was that it was over in two weeks. Seriously, is it November yet?

[thuganomics85]

I'm actually happy that Barnes has possibly been infected, because maybe this will turn him into a supervillain or something, and finally give Michael Chiklis something to do besides yell and bluster over Gordon and Bullock.

Nygma un-rigging the election and Oswald still winning was hilarious!  And now he's his new BFF... I mean, Chief of Staff!  They are totally going to set up a feud between Nygma and Butch, although I think it is safe to say that the character that goes on to become an iconic DC villain is going to be the likely winner of this scenario.  Unless Butch actually bails and goes with someone else.  Maybe even Fish again!

Gordon is Gordon, but I kind of am on his side when it comes to Lee, because even if she didn't want to be with him anymore, the least she could have done was tell him about the miscarriage, instead of dumping all of that on Bullock.  She pretty much cut him completely out of her life, and then she becomes shock that he isn't exactly throwing a party when he sees her, again?  Alrighty, then.

Fake Bruce has now been kidnapped by the Court of Owls, who I'm sure are going to try and make him replace regular Bruce.

[The Wild Sow]

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I'm actually happy that Barnes has possibly been infected, because maybe this will turn him into a supervillain or something

Or some THING!

When Lee told Jim she kept hoping he'd show up at her door, he should have said, "I did...." and walked away.

[darkestboy]

Great episode, loved the Oswald and Nygma scenes. It's like they've become this show's version of Harley and Ivy and Butch himself certainly seems put out by Edward's influence on his boss.

I'm not surprised people would vote for Oswald considering how useless Aubrey James is in the role though. The nods to the current presidential election is amusing too.

Shame Alice had to die in this episode as I really liked the character but having her blood infect Barnes might actually lead to something interesting happening with the guy for once, one can hope.

Jervis and Jim's battle of wits was pretty good in this one. I liked that Leslie was the one to get Gordon to snap out of it.

Nice stuff with Five/Selina/Bruce/Court of Owls in this one too, 7/10

[Jediknight]

Yeah, NotBruce is a Talon.

Massive props to the writers for the Lucha stuff.  They did their homework with knowing how important the mask is to luchadores.

Still love Nygma and Penguin teaming up, and Crazy Babs continues to be fantastic.

[Winter Rose]

Although it was a bit silly looking to have Alice's blood land exactly in Barnes' eye, when it could touch him anywhere to have the same effect, I'm glad he'll be getting something else to do. The GCPD hasn't otherwise been any better off with him in charge.

Nygma's sudden self-righteousness seemed a bit odd but it should be interesting to see what tension this causes with Butch (and for Butch also to have something to do). But I feel like Penguin and the Riddler are different kinds of villains and their bromance could either lead to something wonderful or to disaster.

13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Did anyone get shades of Drumpf watching Penguin's campaign? I swear his face was slightly orange...

I was wondering why his face was looking like that, I thought the makeup department screwed up. I've also thought Penguin's campaign slogan was throwing shade at the current election.

And good to see the writers have a more interesting plan for fake Bruce, instead of just having him walk off too, and real Bruce with Alfred at the end was hilarious.

[Gulftastic]

Really enjoying this season so far. The silliness has been increased, but so has the darkness. The Mad Hatter wanting to bang his sister, making her dress up as Alice In Wonderland, stealing her blood, then her being impaled was dark stuff.

I'd not been aware of a Cobblepot/Nygma ship till now, but bloody hell, those boys are made for each other! Poor jealous Butchie.

[maczero]

17 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Did anyone get shades of Drumpf watching Penguin's campaign? I swear his face was slightly orange...

 

16 hours ago, Philbert said:

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who picked up on that vibe. The good thing about this election was that it was over in two weeks. Seriously, is it November yet?

It was pretty clear it was a jab at the Trump campaign when Penguin said "Make Gotham safe again".

[paigow]

21 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

"Masked wrestlers invading the station? Must be Monday."

At least GCPD had a 40% kill rate....

[SnarkyTart]

Penguin and Nygma...awww.  <3

Although I was disturbed by Mad Hatter's rapey love for his sister, and hope he dies a horrible, painful death now (and soon), this was another fun episode.  The altBruce character is more interesting than original recipe Bruce, and certainly much more Batman-y.  If the plot finds some way to merge Bruce and altBruce, I'll be satisfied with that conclusion.

[Snookums]

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Did anyone get shades of Drumpf watching Penguin's campaign? I swear his face was slightly orange...

Oh, totally. My husband and I hypothesized that in-story Penguin is trying to look more "normal" and not so pasty and weird, while meta-commentary wise it's clearly a jab at Trump. I don't know how much it's going to help with Ed going around looking like he's about to unhinge his jaw and swallow somebody, though. His smile is deeply disturbing. 

Poor Butch; dumped by Tabby, had his little get her back scheme seen through by Barbara, and now he's lost Penguin, that featherbrain. That's Penguin's fatal flaw; for all his honking about unfairness and loyalty he turns on a damn dime to whoever's done him the latest favor. Once Ed pisses him off he'll go running back to Butch, who hopefully will finally wise up and tell him to pound sand.

Jim Gordon, the dummy, was still mostly under hypno-control this week so at least he's got that to blame for his continual bad decision making--a circumstance Lee and Harvey cannot claim. Why, why, why are they still orbiting him like two little lost moons begging him to be their planet even though the former broke up with him (for good reasons, to be fair) and the latter seems to at least nominally want to keep his job? It's beyond stupid into cruel, like when Lee's trying to have it both ways all "I still care about you but have you met my fiance? But I still care about you!" UGH. 

Although I am of the firm opinion that Lee's baby is alive and well, and that she adopted him out while telling Harvey, and Jim through Harvey, that she miscarried, that's still a shitty way to treat somebody.  Barbara has the excuse that's she's fucking crazy; when Jim goes to see her multiple times an episode he at least knows she's going to be all "La dee da I'm nuts and will rag on you! I still don't wear pants!" and he can deal, as far as he ever deals with anything. But Lee comes back to Gotham, takes her old damn job back, gets engaged to a gangster's son, makes medical decisions about her ex-fiance, and can't understand why he might be reluctant  to hug it out??? 

On to Bruce(es) and Selena: very nice not having the whole "Evil Twin" drag on, and Selena having a moment of brains when she realizes it's not Bruce. Almost but not quite makes up for her absolute lamebrained attempted robbery of the betting parlor; she's been doing this how long? I could have robbed the place better.  

Edited October 12, 2016 by Snookums

[Kathemy]

I really loved this episode. Horrible pacing but lots of meaty plot development and some awesome scenes. Next one looks great too.

I sort of judge episodes by how much I am compelled to rewatch select scenes. This one was a win for me.

[Kathemy]

Doux Reviews: New Day Rising

[MarkHB]

I am ashamed that it didn't click for me earlier that the Court of Owls was behind Strange cloning Bruce.

Also, was Owl Lady riding in a 1965 Chrysler Imperial, aka the Black Beauty of Green Hornet fame?

[JTMacc99]

Poor Jim. With his feelings and shit.

And by the way, Gotham, "There is a difference between moving on and letting go" is a great line.  But I watch this show to NOT think about stuff like that, so cut it out.

[Dobian]

I really liked what Nygma did for Penguin, showing him genuine friendship and how people really loved him.  It was sweet...twisted and psychotic...but sweet.

Mad Hatter is as psycho creepy as he was as Alpha Wolf on Walking Dead.  Creepiness is this actor's specialty.

Babs continues to bring on the crazy, most improved character on the show after they retooled her from season one.

Can't wait to see what effect the blood has on Barnes.  Michael Chiklis as crazy new super villain?

[jhlipton]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:21 PM, Gulftastic said:

Poor jealous Butchie.

On 10/12/2016 at 2:20 AM, Snookums said:

Poor Butch; dumped by Tabby, had his little get her back scheme seen through by Barbara, and now he's lost Penguin, that featherbrain.

I know -- Butch just can't catch a break!

 

17 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I am ashamed that it didn't click for me earlier that the Court of Owls was behind Strange cloning Bruce.

Also, was Owl Lady riding in a 1965 Chrysler Imperial, aka the Black Beauty of Green Hornet fame?

Something like it and the driver had a "Kato mask".

Edited October 14, 2016 by jhlipton

[Kathemy]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:25 AM, Chaos Theory said:

NotBruce has all kinds of moves doesn't he?  The one thing I found troubling was Selina realizing that she was dealing with NotBruce after she saw his body,  How many times has she seen Bruce's body.   <Grabs pearls in horror!!!!!>

They did live together for two months...

[Gobi]

I called the Court of Owls being responsible for Clone Bruce. Given his fighting moves and enhanced but not quite superpowers, a daring twist would be to have Real Bruce die and Clone Bruce assume his identity and become Batman. That would probably outrage too many fans, though.

[Kathemy]

You don't jump off the roof of a ten story building without superpowers.

I don't see Bruce dying - mind you, it could be an interesting take on it - but after this season, Thomas will probably be gone, and I have the feeling the writers will still want to use "action Bruce", so we'll see.

[JTMacc99]

17 hours ago, Dobian said:

It was sweet...twisted and psychotic...but sweet.

Hee hee! They are both such great characters, cast perfectly, and written well.

[Cigale]

On 2016-10-10 at 9:25 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Jim Gordon having thoughts.  That is troubling

I don't write that very often, but for this, I'll do it: LOL!

Edited October 15, 2016 by sisterspoon

[HoodlumSheep]

This is very late (I was gone on Monday  and I've finally gotten around to watching it), but here are my thoughts:

• Harvey continues to be too good for the show and everyone. Keep being awesome, Harvey!
• I'm kind of sad Alice had to die so soon. She's one of those characters I wish could have hung around a few more episodes. Like raptor-claw girl. I miss you, raptor-claw girl!
• love the orange spray tan on penguin. Lol! 
• Nygma and Butch duking it out in a battle of the besties. Looks like Butch lost. I hope he goes back to Fish, though. He would be an odd man out (having no super powers), but I always loved the Fish/Butch friendship more than the Penguin/Butch stuff.
• looks like we're also heading towards a battle of the Bruces
• For a street thief, Selina keeps adding to her terrible track record of getting caught.
• Count me as one of the people hoping/wishing Jim should have told Lee that he did show up at her doorstep. I was waiting for him to drop the mic on that conversation, but he didn't. Does Lee remember he was in jail for however many months? And when he got out he was shortly and technically on the run, and then he had to deal with the hugo strange stuff? I feel bad because I feel like I'm being too harsh on Lee, but unless Jim just up and abandoned the city, he didn't have a whole lot of time to chase after her. I don't know. I know Lee must have had a terrible time with stuff and they kind of left on bad terms, but :/. At least they're starting over as friends so that's good.
• I didn't like Bab's hair tonight. I think it was because it was straightened I found the shape to be a bit weird, but oh well, that's just my opinion.
• i see they look to be setting up Barnes' goodbye. His time is up. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Danielg342]

What a waste of a great talent. Naian Gonzalez Norvind deserved a better fate than being yet another example of Gotham's tragic victim, this time as Alice Tetch.

Seriously...I get that "women play better as victims", but I get the sense Gotham is going overboard, and then some. It's tiring at this stage.

Still, she had quite the chemistry with the Mad Hatter, and she gave quite a bit of energy and urgency to some pretty awful script writing...it probably won't be remembered as her finest work, but Norvind still left an impression.

What was their finest hour was Nygma and Oswald. Aww...I actually cried at the end. They're such great friends and you could feel the genuine love between the two...if they weren't villains I'd say it's heartwarming. Sure, Nygma wound up going behind Oswald's back, but Nygma has his best interests at heart- Oswald wouldn't accept a victory he truly didn't win.

...and now we get to see Mayor Oswald. A crazy who actually won an election. I'm sure there's more than a few who are hoping that remains the realm of fiction and doesn't become reality.

As for Selina and the Bruces...well, thumbs down that the show balked at torturing "poor delicate Selina" (if there's any kid that could take a hit other than Bruce, it's Selina), but thumbs up that real Bruce was neurotic to ask Alfred if fake Bruce really did kiss Selina. Other than that...did anything really happen?

Oh, and is Barnes becoming Killer Croc?

The Bullock Meter- 7

He was quite involved in this one, and I'm glad that he finally stood up to Barnes at the end. I loved the scene where he threatened to burn the luchador's mask...that's vintage Donal Logue, right up there with the best scenes Bullock has ever done. I'm also glad he reaffirmed his loyalty to Jim- at least there's one person in Gotham who you know you can rely on. Still, there were considerable moments where Bullock was just a spectator, especially at points- such as when the GCPD was attacked- where he could have been useful, but at least Bullock was a memorable character in this one.

Episode Grade: B. Just a good, solid- if a bit pacey- hour.

[Kathemy]

50 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

What a waste of a great talent. Naian Gonzalez Norvind deserved a better fate than being yet another example of Gotham's tragic victim, this time as Alice Tetch.

[...]

As for Selina and the Bruces...well, thumbs down that the show balked at torturing "poor delicate Selina" (if there's any kid that could take a hit other than Bruce, it's Selina), but thumbs up that real Bruce was neurotic to ask Alfred if fake Bruce really did kiss Selina. Other than that...did anything really happen?

Gotham needed one Alice to die to establish the backstory and trigger of the Mad Hatter's psychosis. Isn't it better to use a good actress than a poor one?

As for torturing Selina, Gotham can't win. If they'd done that every social justice warrior on the 'net would've been screaming their lungs out about gratuitous violence against women. And kids!

As for what happened in Batcat land the episode established there's an attraction on Selina's part to Bruce (or at least someone with his identical looks), she wouldn't have allowed Thomas to kiss her otherwise. It also reinforced that she's really fed up with Bruce's antics. Plus with the kidnapping of Thomas we now know they're running a version of the Wayne Jr / Lincoln March storyline which is why I can now call him Thomas. "5" isn't a name.

[Danielg342]

8 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

Gotham needed one Alice to die to establish the backstory and trigger of the Mad Hatter's psychosis. Isn't it better to use a good actress than a poor one?

She could have been there for a few episodes and had a role in arc of her own instead of just being in a few scenes strewn across two episodes where she did nothing except being an expose for her blood and to be unceremoniously offed.

[Kathemy]

2 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

She could have been there for a few episodes and had a role in arc of her own instead of just being in a few scenes strewn across two episodes where she did nothing except being an expose for her blood and to be unceremoniously offed.

Again, Gotham can't win. If they'd done that, people would've whined even more that they gave her an arc and then just killed her off, and they'd whined over how they were fridging a "multidimensional character with a lot of potential", as we hear whenever a female character who ever had a line bites the dust.

[Perfect Xero]

On 10/10/2016 at 9:25 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Jim Gordon having thoughts.  That is troubling.

"Bullock, I'm afraid I've been thinking."

"A dangerous pastime --"

"I know."

[VCRTracking]

Still wondering what the hell is going on with the Bruce clone storyline.

[Kathemy]

He's turning into Lincoln March / Thomas Wayne Jr.

[Camera One]

I really don't care about Jim/Lee anymore, and I'm usually the romantic sort.  I don't see how he suddenly was able to say he was happy for her at the end.  As usual, Jim's actions caused another innocent person to die.  It is so hard to root for him.

I'm surprised that they had Selina figure out it wasn't Bruce so quickly, and I'm glad it wasn't dragged out.  But the acting was a little wonky since he seemed like normal Bruce on the rooftop when Selina was giving him first aid.  Before that, he was super obviously not.  I did think it was cool to see Not-Bruce fighting full-force and without repentance.  

Why didn't Selina tell Jim about the aging-power guy touching Ivy, so her appearance could have changed?

Barnes getting infected will probably make him more interesting, but it will be another frustrating plot where the protagonists are in the dark.

I'm disappointed the election is over already.  Not sure I like the divide between Penguin and Butch.