S23.E06: Week 4

[surreysmum]

For what it's worth (copy-pasted not linked because I'm technology-impaired):

Amber Rose (@DaRealAmberRose) | Twitter

https://twitter.com/DaRealAmberRose

14 hours ago - View on Twitter

Rosebuds! @juliannehough did apologize to me for the way her comment came off. The crowd was clapping loud at the time #GirlPower ❤️

********

Can we get back to talking about the dancing (such as it was)? Oy.

[boyznkatz]

10 hours ago, SpikeGal said:

Me too! For once Mr. Derek isn't the Golden Boy and the trophy isn't in the bag this time! I guess even HE can only go so far!

Yeah, he's just a mere mortal when he has a partner who sucks. Now I guess he knows how Tony and Artem and Emma feel.

[sandyskyblue]

4 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Bless you for mentioning the phenomenal Ken Berry. I have a massive crush on James. He's just so pocket-sized and talented and adorable, which is my perfect trifecta of affection.

I think it's James and Laurie as final 2 unless a massive catastrophe occurs in the next few weeks.

Laurie and Val's number had me off my couch dancing along. It was infectiously joyful and well choreographed by Val. He does great with large Broadway-style production numbers (see Janel's America number and Danica's Be Our Guest). They deserved the perfect 30.

The Cirque theme was one of my favorite themes since Halloween night two years ago. I LOVED the extra acrobatics. It really added to the ambiance and forced the dancers to step it up so they could shine and compete with the Cirque performers.

And then... we have Julianne. I'm totally, completed baffled by this show. I see Derek isn't the only child of the corn who's been deemed untouchable by the powers that be. Jesus, at least Derek is a positive person who sticks up for the contestants, whether they are his partner or not. Julianne is a real piece of work. How in the hell did Amber end up apologizing to her?! And why didn't Julianne have the class and/or presence of mind to offer an apology, even if the remarks were misunderstood? Dancing is, by definition, an act that purely involved the body, so if a dance makes Julianne uncomfortable, she is by definition saying Amber's body makes her uncomfortable. Sorry, no way around that one. Even a tepid acknowledgement of Amber's feelings would have been appreciated. But instead, she sat atop her pretty little perch and looked down on Amber while deigning to accept an apology she wasn't even owed. Wow, I am so done with her.

Julianne was not a judge last season and I did not miss her one bit (or Derek either)....I loved her as a dancer on this show but hate her as a judge....(and it bothers me that TPTB do not care one whit about nepotism by having her judge her own brother)...now, whether Amber was owed an apology or not, Julianne needed to step up and be the bigger mature person and apologize...because in a situation like this, both sides have valid points, therefore, both sides should apologize and be done with it, that is what should happen in a civil, mature situation.....just my opinion, of course....

[saber5055]

So Julianne found Amber's dance "uncomfortable," yet no one made any comments (on the show, there were plenty here) about Mandy Moore's stripper dance? THAT made me so uncomfortable, I had to change the channel. And Amber's booty-shaking ... why is it CAI deducts points for a life that "is not allowed" in a dance yet no one deducts for all the other "mucking about --tm Len" that goes on in the bastardized ballroom dances? Meanwhile, my Val crush developed more after this episode, and James continues as the "star" cutie patootie.

Sorry, unable to edit my posts. I meant LIFTS, not "lifes" that are not allowed. Big confusing difference there!

[spanana]

2 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Val usually travels with her - this week, I think because of the Whitehouse thing, he didn't, and they didn't start on the dance until Friday. Which is why it may have seemed "simple" to some people.

But I do think Laurie has the most natural performance ability out of any of the gymnasts that have been on so far - maybe challenged by Shawn, but I think it took a bit for Shawn to settle into it. That lets her carry the performances with pizazz, and I think Val is wise to exploit it especially if they have limited time. Her schedule is insane though, and while she seems to be taking it well, it is a danger to become a limiting factor on them. (I feel like I would be crying from exhaustion if I had tour stops every night, had to do schoolwork and study for SATs, was crisscrossing the country on planes, and then also deal with perfectionist Val, but then hey, I never had to have the discipline to train for elite athletic competition, so maybe it's easy for her.) 

I'm not making light of Laurie's schedule.  Her schedule this past week was crazy.  But I'd also point out she isn't doing all the tour stops.  She seems to be doing about half so far.  For instance this past week there were tour shows on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  She did the Thursday and Friday shows and returned to LA to prep for DWTS on the weekend.   This week there are tour shows Wednesday-Sunday and I presume she will only do a portion of those, likely skipping the weekend shows so she can attend blocking and etc.

Also while Laurie is in school, I'm not sure if she's doing schoolwork at the moment.   Last time I heard her address school she said she hadn't started yet, but maybe that has changed.  I definitely haven't seen all of her interviews.

What Laurie has in spades is innate performance ability, at least in numbers where she can relate to her character.  She sold the hell out of the number last night in terms of characterization which is why it went over so well.  It also showed a somewhat sexier (but still age appropriate) side to her we haven't seen.  The talent is there.  Is she capable of a lot more as a dancer then what we saw last night?  Well, yes.  But when you only have 3 days to prep you do what you have to do and Laurie had the personality to sell it.  Technically, she is capable of a lot more.   Nor do I think it's a coincidence she was gifted with jazz on a week where she had little time to prep.  But she killed it which is all that matters for this week.

[RedFiat]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Yeah, he's just a mere mortal when he has a partner who sucks. Now I guess he knows how Tony and Artem and Emma feel.

So much of this.   I was thinking the same thing,  Marilu is similiar to 85% of the celebrities that Tony has partnered.  Artem is getting the Tony edit, and damn both of these pros do great work if given the chance .

[kitcloudkicker]

22 minutes ago, spanana said:

Also while Laurie is in school, I'm not sure if she's doing schoolwork at the moment.   Last time I heard her address school she said she hadn't started yet, but maybe that has changed.  I definitely haven't seen all of her interviews.

She's snap chatted / instagram storied schoolwork a few times, and Val posted something about her SAT prep, so she has at least some of that. 

I also follow Simone Biles a bit, and everyone else seems to treat the tour a bit like extended vacation. There's a lot of goofing around, and there should be (because teenagers and early 20s) but I do wonder if it might get harder to stay disciplined when everyone else gets to let loose, vs when everyone else is in training as well.

[radishcake]

Guys arguing amongst yourselves about Julianne & Amber needs to be done. It's been dealt with on the show so we're all good.

No more or we'll keep hiding back and forth about it.

[bantering]

I suspect Laurie would have been a good dancer even if she weren't a gymnast. She has an uninhibited and sparkly dimension to her personality which translates well to dancing.  Even if she weren't a gymnast, she'd still be that cute girl down the street whose personality outshines everybody. While her cuteness might have been nurtured and encouraged by her family or maybe she's just genetically wired to be adorable all the time, I don't think that aspect of her personality was necessarily taught to her solely by gymnastics. 

Despite wearing more provocative clothing, Amber's dance this week seemed as boring as last week's. I actually think Ryan Lochte can dance better than her.

Edited October 4, 2016 by bantering

[majormama]

So if I heard right, Allison said something like they were the only couple who didn't have a built in Cirque-spectacle for their assigned routine. So they would have to stand out on their simplicity and commitment to technique. Oh, wait, no. She would have to come up with her own overly ambitious spectacle way beyond the capability of her partner. And this is where Allison runs into problems. Doing a simpler dance well will always beat doing a complex dance poorly. And it would have been hard even for two pros to hit all of those spots. It definitely sounded like a cool idea in theory, but there was no way it was going to work in practice.

[crowceilidh]

I thought Gleb's choreo was terrible, btw.  It just made the song so stilted, which it is not.  Compare in your head to what Derek would have done to that music (I am not a Derek fan generally, but I am still blown away by his choreo to Taxi).

[thefog]

27 minutes ago, bantering said:

I suspect Laurie would have been a good dancer even if she weren't a gymnast. She has an uninhibited and sparkly dimension to her personality which translates well to dancing.  Even if she weren't a gymnast, she'd still be that cute girl down the street whose personality outshines everybody. While her cuteness might have been nurtured and encouraged by her family or maybe she's just genetically wired to be adorable all the time, I don't think that aspect of her personality was necessarily taught to her solely by gymnastics. 

She's 16 years old.  Her personality is appropriate for her age, but I don't think it outshines everybody.  And being a professional gymnast is a hell of a lot closer to being a professional dancer than a race car driver or a football player.

Edited October 4, 2016 by escape

[RemoteControlFreak]

43 minutes ago, spanana said:

I'm not making light of Laurie's schedule.  Her schedule this past week was crazy.  But I'd also point out she isn't doing all the tour stops.  She seems to be doing about half so far.  For instance this past week there were tour shows on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  She did the Thursday and Friday shows and returned to LA to prep for DWTS on the weekend.   This week there are tour shows Wednesday-Sunday and I presume she will only do a portion of those, likely skipping the weekend shows so she can attend blocking and etc.

Also while Laurie is in school, I'm not sure if she's doing schoolwork at the moment.   Last time I heard her address school she said she hadn't started yet, but maybe that has changed.  I definitely haven't seen all of her interviews.

What Laurie has in spades is innate performance ability, at least in numbers where she can relate to her character.  She sold the hell out of the number last night in terms of characterization which is why it went over so well.  It also showed a somewhat sexier (but still age appropriate) side to her we haven't seen.  The talent is there.  Is she capable of a lot more as a dancer then what we saw last night?  Well, yes.  But when you only have 3 days to prep you do what you have to do and Laurie had the personality to sell it.  Technically, she is capable of a lot more.   Nor do I think it's a coincidence she was gifted with jazz on a week where she had little time to prep.  But she killed it which is all that matters for this week.

I don't see how she did the Friday show in Houston and was in LA at 4:30 pm for a rehearsal, but anyway I get your point that she does not appear in every performance.

With regard to school, in this interview, she says she's been homeschooled since third grade.  Modern homeschooling is typically some kind of online program. The rigor of these programs varies widely.

[RedFiat]

27 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

I thought Gleb's choreo was terrible, btw.  It just made the song so stilted, which it is not.  Compare in your head to what Derek would have done to that music (I am not a Derek fan generally, but I am still blown away by his choreo to Taxi).

 I watched it back and hell I loved it.  Jana was a bit stiff in the shoulders, but the routine I thought was pretty gorgeous, I loved how they opened it and ended it, like the flower children they were. I felt a sweet chemistry between them. The changes in tempo was tough to Foxtrot to, I think Something would have been much easier to do a strict tempo Foxtrot,  but I loved the addition of the tabla so I thought Gleb did a great job. He didn't stray from Foxtrot. That's why  I  preferred it to Taxi. I love less props more dance. But that's just my preference. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by RedFiat

[sinkwriter]

Quote

Yeah, he's just a mere mortal when he has a partner who sucks. Now I guess he knows how Tony and Artem and Emma feel.

I feel the need to speak up for Marilu here. I don't think she sucks. There is a whole level of suck that isn't even close to Marilu's dance level.

Master P sucked. Charlotte McKinney sucked. Michael Waltrip suuuuuuucked. 

Marilu has some skills. People who suck wouldn't have been able to do all the moves she did in last night's routine. She can do the moves, she can feel the beat. Her problem is that she's too much in her head, so her dances come out much more average than they should. She's a vibrant personality, but it's not coming out in her dance. Sadly, they don't have the spark.

But she doesn't suck.

[rr2911]

Okay, first of all, Amber didn't need to apologize. In fact, the show shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. Second of all, being a gymnast  doesn't mean being a great dancer. Now, a little bit about yesterdays performances.

Laurie Hernandez is amazing! Wow also describes her! Hope she wins, she deserves it!

James did good. Not "10" material but good. He's still far away from Laurie.

I felt sorry for Babyface. Not only did he mess up but his partner didn't seem to support him.

I know people are going to think I'm crazy but I'm not impressed with Calvin like everyone is.

Terra really surprised me with her performance yesterday. She did great but her scores were too high. There still judging her on a curve.

 

Babyface and Vanilla Ice probably going home.

[LotusFlower]

25 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

I feel the need to speak up for Marilu here. I don't think she sucks. There is a whole level of suck that isn't even close to Marilu's dance level.

Master P sucked. Charlotte McKinney sucked. Michael Waltrip suuuuuuucked. 

I honestly think Wynona Judd takes the cake here.  She didn't move!

[bantering]

2 hours ago, escape said:

She's 16 years old.  Her personality is appropriate for her age, but I don't think it outshines everybody.  And being a professional gymnast is a hell of a lot closer to being a professional dancer than a race car driver or a football player.

I've seen the other gymnasts perform at the Olympics. They're within the same age range of her, but even their personalities don't seem quite as "adorable" as hers. That's all I meant.  Maybe Simone Biles is the other gymnast who is "cute" but I vaguely remember thinking the other ones were young and had that going for them,  but not necessarily the same level of charisma. Would I notice her personality when she's 30? I have no idea. But at her present age, I suspect I'd notice her personality even if she weren't famous.  She has a certain lack of fear which helps with dancing whereas someone like Maureen McCormick seems stifled by fear. McCormick seems like she'll wince just uttering the word "dance." Even Ryan Lochte as an Olympian has a certain nervousness and apprehension,and he's down as the stoned fun-loving guy.

Gymnasts bounce around in tumbling passes -- in that sense, it's unclear to me how her gymnastics helps her as a dancer. I get that she performs in public, but I've never really thought of gymnastics as related to dancing. Even their floor routines don't look like dancing to me.  I don't think she would have taken dancing lessons the way Mery Davis might have to help her with her ice dancing (which is on blades).

Gymnasts do generally perform well in this competition, but some of that I attribute to their determination and competitive spirit. Athletes of all stripes in general seem more competitive on this show. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by bantering

[TeeMo]

I split my votes between Calvin and Babyface last night. I thought Calvin was underscored (Maureen did not deserve higher scores than him!) and I thought Babyface got screwed over by having a partner who is just not made to be a pro on this show.

That dance was a mess from start to finish but I actually thought Babyface did a slightly better job of trying to soldier through it than Allison did. He seems to try hard and I think he would have had a better chance with a partner like Emma. Allison just seems incapable of creating routines that work for very rudimentary dancers. It doesn't help that her lack of true ballroom training is pretty evident a lot of the time and when the dances go sideways for whatever reason, her frame and form often falls apart just as much as her partner's does and it starts looking like two people who have no idea what they are doing out there. I always marvel at the ability of pros like Emma and Anna and Karina to keep looking elegant and polished while dragging a total non dancer across the floor. Allison does not have that skill and it is necessary on this show a good chunk of the time. Babyface made me laugh with his post dance honesty so I threw him some votes. 

The biggest surprises for me this season are Terra and Vanilla Ice, both of whom are really endearing themselves to me every week. Also I give the pro MVP award to Sasha for finding a way to make that size difference work week after week without relying on gimmicks or gags. He has never been a favorite of mine but he is doing an excellent job this season. 

[rr2911]

1 hour ago, escape said:

She's 16 years old.  Her personality is appropriate for her age, but I don't think it outshines everybody.  And being a professional gymnast is a hell of a lot closer to being a professional dancer than a race car driver or a football player.

Gymnastics and dancing are two different things. Look at Michael Jordan. Probably the greatest NBA player ever! Lousy baseball player! Both are sports but require different skills. 

[thefog]

1 hour ago, rr2911 said:

Gymnastics and dancing are two different things. Look at Michael Jordan. Probably the greatest NBA player ever! Lousy baseball player! Both are sports but require different skills. 

The skills required for gymnastics comes closer to dancing, compared to the skills of a race car driver or football player.  Jordan wasn't lousy at baseball.  He had the basic skills.  He was just better at basketball.

1 hour ago, bantering said:

I've seen the other gymnasts perform at the Olympics. They're within the same age range of her, but even their personalities don't seem quite as "adorable" as hers. That's all I meant.  Maybe Simone Biles is the other gymnast who is "cute" but I vaguely remember thinking the other ones were young and had that going for them,  but not necessarily the same level of charisma. Would I notice her personality when she's 30? I have no idea. But at her present age, I suspect I'd notice her personality even if she weren't famous.  She has a certain lack of fear which helps with dancing whereas someone like Maureen McCormick seems stifled by fear. McCormick seems like she'll wince just uttering the word "dance." Even Ryan Lochte as an Olympian has a certain nervousness and apprehension,and he's down as the stoned fun-loving guy.

Gymnasts bounce around in tumbling passes -- in that sense, it's unclear to me how her gymnastics helps her as a dancer. I get that she performs in public, but I've never really thought of gymnastics as related to dancing. Even their floor routines don't look like dancing to me.  I don't think she would have taken dancing lessons the way Mery Davis might have to help her with her ice dancing (which is on blades).

Gymnasts do generally perform well in this competition, but some of that I attribute to their determination and competitive spirit. Athletes of all stripes in general seem more competitive on this show. 

But "adorable" is a term more appropriate for her age.  Keep in mind, she's been a competitor most of her life.  She knows nothing else; doesn't even go to regular school with other kids.  So she's been program.  Re Maureen, it is much tougher to go out there and do this when you are 60 vs 16.

I defer to Tom Bergeron, who said the 2 people he gets asked most about are James and Calvin.  With DWTS, the so called best dancer doesn't always win.  Viewers like root for the underdogs.

Edited October 5, 2016 by escape

[Hiacios]

I knew that Laurie Hernandez would be the first to get a perfect score, but I believe that she won't win the MBT because she is not the best dancer that title goes to James Hinchcliffe IMO.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm so happy that Lindsay got a good partner.  I've followed her since SYTYCD, and she was over shadowed by Witney there, and that followed over when they came to DWTS.  I've never really cared for Witney's dancing, but I think Lindsay just floats when she dances.  And her marriage seems to agree with her, and/or she's riding high on getting a contender.

I've said what I wanted to say about Amber in her thread, but I'll just add that if I have to choose between Amber and JH, Amber is going to win.

It's too funny that on a gossip site I read, someone posted that they feel Julianne is arrogant, and thinks she's the head judge.  And then the show started, and there she was!  Right in Len's spot.  I would vastly prefer Maks as a judge - he's as arrogant as Julianne, but he's not as condescending in his judging.  There's something about parking Julianne next to Bruno.  It's like they're trying to outbitch each other.  They're a catty twosome, and the constant whispering and clutching at each other is irritating.

[magpye29]

So why did Julianne show up looking like a drunken prom queen?

[Hiacios]

Just now, magpye29 said:

So why did Julianne show up looking like a drunken prom queen?

Because she's full of herself. lol.

[smiley13]

5 minutes ago, magpye29 said:

So why did Julianne show up looking like a drunken prom queen?

Because someone in wardrobe and make-up doesn't like her??

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I honestly think Wynona Judd takes the cake here.  She didn't move!

I didn't see that season. She seriously didn't move? *shakes head* Oh boy. 

[Anisky]

10 hours ago, bantering said:

I've seen the other gymnasts perform at the Olympics. They're within the same age range of her, but even their personalities don't seem quite as "adorable" as hers. That's all I meant.  Maybe Simone Biles is the other gymnast who is "cute" but I vaguely remember thinking the other ones were young and had that going for them,  but not necessarily the same level of charisma. Would I notice her personality when she's 30? I have no idea. But at her present age, I suspect I'd notice her personality even if she weren't famous.  She has a certain lack of fear which helps with dancing whereas someone like Maureen McCormick seems stifled by fear. McCormick seems like she'll wince just uttering the word "dance." Even Ryan Lochte as an Olympian has a certain nervousness and apprehension,and he's down as the stoned fun-loving guy.

Gymnasts bounce around in tumbling passes -- in that sense, it's unclear to me how her gymnastics helps her as a dancer. I get that she performs in public, but I've never really thought of gymnastics as related to dancing. Even their floor routines don't look like dancing to me.  I don't think she would have taken dancing lessons the way Mery Davis might have to help her with her ice dancing (which is on blades).

Gymnasts do generally perform well in this competition, but some of that I attribute to their determination and competitive spirit. Athletes of all stripes in general seem more competitive on this show. 

Well, to be fair, Laurie is actually 3 years younger than any other member of the Final Five. It may not seem like a lot but as far as "cuteness" goes, the difference between 16 and 19/20/22 can be large. Regardless, she definitely has the most outsized personality of the elite gymnasts. I don't know if this has crossed into mainstream coverage, but she's known as the "human emoji" in the gym community; she's just ridiculously charismatic (and energetic/enthusiastic). 

As someone who took dance for 14 years growing up (became quite serious about it as a teen) and is currently a gymnastics coach, I have to say that yes, the two disciplines are quite related. 

I mean, obviously, they're not perfectly correlated. But while strength is something necessary in most sports (and thus something that many contestants on DWtS have), the biggest things that both dance and gymnastics require are flexibility (this one is huge), precision of movement, excellent balance, and kinesthetic awareness. 

Also, all the team gymnasts at the gymnastics training center where I work have several hours of dance class per week; while this varies from gym to gym, I know MG Elite (Laurie's gym) has dance class as part of team practice. 

Some things that Laurie could easily do that I'd expect professional dancers (especially the women) to be able to do, that most other types of contestants wouldn't: Completely straight splits and straddle. Lifting her back foot behind her and holding it against the back of her head with ease; standing there like that without falling over. Kicking one foot all the way up, with a straight knee, so high that she could hold it in a full vertical split. An illusion turn. A leap that hits 180 degrees before landing. Completing one or more pirouettes with a leg up at or above waist-height, straight or in attitude; finishing in balance and ready to continue to another movement. 

On both Floor and Balance Beam, at least 3 out of the 8 skills that are added together for difficulty score must be "dance skills", mainly leaps and turns. The higher the difficulty, the better the final score, so an All-Around gymnast like Laurie is highly incentivized to perform at least 6 extremely difficult dance skills (3 of them on a 4-inch-wide beam). 

One thing that rather disappointed me about Laurie's dance this week is that it didn't utilize more of the abilities she'd have from gymnastics that translate into dance. Besides the obvious aerial cartwheel lift she did with Val, there was also a very high kick she did near the beginning that most contestants wouldn't be capable of, but that's all I really saw this week. 

In their dance in the first week, Laurie and Val definitely made copious use of Laurie's flexibility and ability to kick super high-- I can't think off the top of my head of any other group besides gymnasts and dancers who would be able to do what she did in that one.

In the second week, besides a lift where Laurie got to show off her split, they mostly made use of Laurie's gymnastics-derived ability to spin around a bunch of times without getting dizzy (she's Olympic Silver Medalist on Balance Beam for a reason) and to continue seamlessly into new choreography.  They also took advantage of her dance training making things like kick ball changes and grapevines second nature enough that she could focus on other things while doing them. They also had a cool bit of choreo that was a hop-turn-kick, hop-turn-kick that Laurie's gymnastics training would have made really easy. (Besides turning multiple revolutions in a row and having the leg at waist height or full split while doing so, the main form of high-scoring dance element on Floor is a leap or jump that hits a pose-- usually a split or variation thereof-- while packing in as many spins in the air as possible before the gymnast hits the floor. So a dance move that's a hop that spins in the air and ends in a kick as you land would be easy for a gymnast and very challenging for anyone else-- not undoable the way most of her flexibility is, but something that would eat up a lot more training time for anyone else.)

The third week they didn't make that much use of it either-- a few kicks, and a few moments where Val drags Laurie or leans her over while her feet are still on the floor or (gasp) lifts her were aided by her gymnastics training. Especially the first two; her body stays super straight and tight because she was reminded to "Keep those legs together, knees straight, body tight!" many times daily from the time she was 5 years old until the time that it became so automatic to her that she didn't have to be reminded. ("Toes pointed!" was part of that too, but she's wearing shoes of course. I guarantee you they were was pointed as she could make them inside those shoes, just by sheer reflex.) (The tightness of the body is probably actually a disadvantage in much of this competition, but it made those particular moves possible and good looking.) 

All that said, the charisma, the acting skills and facial expressions, natural rhythm, attitude, stage presence-- pretty much all the things that make it hard to look away from her while she's dancing-- that's all Laurie. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Anisky

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the best thing about Cirque du Soleil week is that we got to hear Beatles and Michael Jackson songs by the original artists, not the yowling of the DWTS singers.

When the dancers and celebs come out at the beginning of the show, I prejudge a little based on their costumes. This week as I saw each couple come out, I thought what the hell is going on here? Then I thought man, Mark must be kicking himself for missing cirque week. On a shallow note, I hated whatever Julianne was wearing on her head. It looked like a bedazzled sleep mask pushed onto her forehead. Her messy hair and nightgown looking dress didn't help things.

I totally love Cirque du Soleil, partly because it gives dancers, acrobats, and other performers job opportunities (I know so many performers who still have other jobs to help pay the bills). And while I loved the theme this week in theory, I wish they had either let the various Cirque performers give us a taste of their acts during the bumpers (instead of the troupe) or just given them ten minutes to do an extravagant performance. I found it really distracting to have them performing during the dances because to be honest, I'd rather watch someone who is a great aerialist than a celeb who's okay at ballroom.

Calvin and Lindsay's Charleston was better than I thought it would be. He had a fair amount of bounce and his feet where pretty quick. I wasn't a huge fan of the steampunk costumes but compared to some of the others, ehhhh.

Maureen did better at the Argentine tango than I expected. She is not a great dancer. She's not awful but she's not great. I agree with Carrie Ann that Maureen tends to be a bit reserved when she dances. When she's just talking, she is energetic and exuberant but when she's dancing I feel like she's holding back and not quite comfortable enough to let loose. But she seemed much more comfortable this week, so good for her. Remember that Seinfeld episode about the two face where Jerry's girlfriend looked really great in certain lighting and not so great in other lighting? Maureen has that going on. In certain light and at certain angles, she still looks very girlish. And then in other lighting, she looks much more her age (and there's nothing wrong with that - I'm all for celebs aging without botox and fillers). It's okay for someone who's 60 to look 60! And any time we get to see scores without having to deal with Erin's lame interviews (aka Erin asking questions and then interrupting) is a win for me!

The honeymoon period is definitely over for a lot of these couples and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It means instead of holding things in to be polite, now they're being honest about how they feel and letting it out.

I didn't hate Jana and Gleb's foxtrot choreography or performance but I felt like the costumes really detracted from the whole thing. This week I finally realized that Gleb reminds me of Jason Ritter.  I wish Jana would point her toes. It was really obvious at certain points like when she was in arabesque. Erin's made up song during their interview was the worst. Please stop. I totally get what all the judges were saying about Jana's shoulders and pushing them down.

Way too much going on during Marilu and Derek's paso doble. Fire! Flags! Backup dancers! Double wheels of death! Ten pounds of black eye makeup on Derek! One of the great things about Marilu's performance last week was how long her lines were. This week I felt like she wasn't stretching and extending all of her lines or finishing her moves so the shapes weren't as strong. I'm not a huge Julianne fan, but I feel bad that sitting next to Bruno means she's the one he grabs whenever he wants to make a point. On a shallow note, I hated the cheap thin fabric on the sleeves of Marilu's costume this week.

Maks and Amber's Argentine tango had too much time wasted at that table. Too much sitting and crawling and sliding, not enough tango.. Look, I'm all for a woman embracing her sexuality, but Amber did not look any sexier this week in her dancing or movement. She still looked tentative. I wanted her to come out and be sexy and confident but she still looked like she was just kind of walking around the dance floor. How did that get three 8s?

I hate to sound like one of those crazy conspiracy theorists, but I think I actually saw Ryan's feet for maybe ten seconds of this Viennese waltz. They alternated between smoke all over the floor, shooting him from the waist up, and then having the piano block his feet. I kept moving my head while watching in the hopes that I could see his feet. Then he got in the middle of the dance floor so we could see his feet and then he stood still. DAMN IT, SHOW!

Babyface and Allison's tango was not my favorite. As much as I loved her on SYTYCD, I think that choreographing is not her strong suit. I also didn't like her slicked back hair. I think Babyface is in the middle of the pack but he just messed up and it threw him off. That happens sometimes. He's not a professional dancer so I understand that fugue state where you know you messed up and that you need to get back into it but you just can't quite get there.

Terra and Sasha's samba was her best dance, but I love what a supportive partner he is for her. I also appreciate that he kept the production stuff to a minimum. Compared to some of the other dances, having fire and a guy with a staff was downright minimalist. I don't think that performance deserved a 9.

Laurie is working her ass off. Watching videos and having her first rehearsal on Friday night is crazy. She did a great job, especially considering that she only practiced with Val for three days.. Re: people assuming that she is awesome because she's a gymnast, all you need to do is watch any gymnastics competition to see that not all gymnasts have her personality and dance ability. Due to the new code of points, dance is not really rewarded in gymnastics anymore. They learn how to do certain leaps and turns because they are required on beam and floor, but that doesn't mean that all gymnasts are good performers or dancers. Most of them do split leaps, switch leaps, and double turns but there are so many gymnasts who just launch into a split leap with no style. Just punch, hit the 180. Similarly a lot of them aren't good at turns but they learn how to push off hard enough to get around twice (a full turn is required on beam but you get more points for a double turn). There are a lot of gymnasts who are basically tumblers who toss in their required dance elements robotically without any style or panache. Laurie is a performer. She has personality and pizzazz. Considering how strong and flexible she is, I was disappointed by her lackluster fan kick.

Vanilla Ice and Witney's Viennese waltz was much better than I thought it would be, especially after he said that he had five shows last week. But I love that, like Laurie, he isn't complaining about it at all. He has a positive attitude and he is eager to learn, which I appreciate.

James and Sharna's quickstep was a good choice for the last number. That was a great production number and I felt like there was purpose to having the backup dancers (as opposed to how extraneous they were in Allison and Babyface's routine). I also loved Sharna's sparkly red Jessica Rabbit dress. The judges were so excited about it that I was surprised they didn't give it a perfect 30. I guess since they pointed out that James made a small mistake, they had to downgrade a little.

[radishcake]

Guys if you could move the specific talk to the performers page and keep this thread about the actual episode it would be, by me, appreciated. 

*bonus points for knowing the line ;)

[RedFiat]

16 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

I feel the need to speak up for Marilu here. I don't think she sucks. There is a whole level of suck that isn't even close to Marilu's dance level.

Master P sucked. Charlotte McKinney sucked. Michael Waltrip suuuuuuucked. 

Marilu has some skills. People who suck wouldn't have been able to do all the moves she did in last night's routine. She can do the moves, she can feel the beat. Her problem is that she's too much in her head, so her dances come out much more average than they should. She's a vibrant personality, but it's not coming out in her dance. Sadly, they don't have the spark.

But she doesn't suck.

I guess my feeling is that people like Jane Seymour, Leesa Gibbons,  Chynna Philips,  Leah Remini, Marla Maples .... none of these ladies sucked. They were all Tony's partners, though and did not have a hope of winning, because possible dancing within themselves and the nerves showed, possible ageism because they won't be doing gymnastics, and small but loyal fanbases.  Tony has had a plethora of mature ladies , and now Artem is filling that space.   It is about time that Derek got someone like this group.  He has had one Jennifer Grey, who had a baked in fan base of those who loved Patrick Swayze and an iconic dance movie for the ages.  Having said that, she was also an extremely talented dancer who did make her living early in her career dancing in her own right before Derek even partnered her.  I thought she was great and voted for her.  I do think Derek needs to get some more ladies like the ones Tony has carefully mentored. 

[crossover]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Allison's tango was not my favorite. As much as I loved her on SYTYCD, I think that choreographing is not her strong suit. I also didn't like her slicked back hair. I think Babyface is in the middle of the pack but he just messed up and it threw him off. That happens sometimes. He's not a professional dancer so I understand that fugue state where you know you messed up and that you need to get back into it but you just can't quite get there.
 

I like her ballroom choreography better than her jazz/contemporary.  Didn't like her SYTYCD routine at all.  She's not as good at performing or teaching ballroom as the ballroom dancers. But her routines are usually entertaining. But, contemporary routines are hard to conceptualize, especially in the little time allotted on these reality shows. But for DWTS, she does ok at contemporary because the emphasis is on the music really.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I assumed that Amber heard the comment during the package on the results show, not on the live show.

I'm not so sure - she said she actually backed off the bump 'n grind in the middle of performance because she heard what Julianne said, so she must have heard it at the time, not after the fact.

[Jax7917]

Gymnasts do better because they are way more flexible than the average person, and flexibility helps people win this show.

On another note, vanilla ice still has concerts? who would've known

[vavera4ka]

what rubbed me the wrong (-er) way was when after the dance and whole talk about the "uncomfortable" comment, Julianne's comment was:

THIS is you! stripped down and dancing... (I don't remember exact comment but I was like... considering her past that's a bit of a double handed comment)

[Uke]

10 hours ago, Anisky said:

Well, to be fair, ...All that said, the charisma, the acting skills and facial expressions, natural rhythm, attitude, stage presence-- pretty much all the things that make it hard to look away from her while she's dancing-- that's all Laurie. 

Great information. Thanks for explaining all this.  

[Uke]

5 hours ago, RedFiat said:

I guess my feeling is that people like Jane Seymour, Leesa Gibbons,  Chynna Philips,  Leah Remini, Marla Maples .... none of these ladies sucked. They were all Tony's partners, though and did not have a hope of winning, because possible dancing within themselves and the nerves showed, possible ageism because they won't be doing gymnastics, and small but loyal fanbases.  Tony has had a plethora of mature ladies , and now Artem is filling that space.   It is about time that Derek got someone like this group.  He has had one Jennifer Grey, who had a baked in fan base of those who loved Patrick Swayze and an iconic dance movie for the ages.  Having said that, she was also an extremely talented dancer who did make her living early in her career dancing in her own right before Derek even partnered her.  I thought she was great and voted for her.  I do think Derek needs to get some more ladies like the ones Tony has carefully mentored. 

This is the first season in a long time that Derek and his partner haven't been massively pimped - overpraised, minimally judged, overscored, etc.  So it's interesting getting small glimpses into him struggling (like any other pro).  I think if he started getting "ladies like the ones Tony has carefully mentored" (what a nice way you phrased that!), I doubt Derek would stick around or he'd look for some other role on the show.  Derek's a competitor through and through.  I don't think he has the patience for the Leesas and Chynnas, etc.  For him, if there's no chance of winning, why compete?  I don't believe he gives a rip about "the journey".**  Remember, before week 1, Marilu was believed to be a massive ringer with all her dance/choreographing/teaching experience plus her memory skills and being in fantastic shape.  IMO she was the one planned as Laurie's competition, not James, so TPTB could push a Val vs Derek duel.

 

** That's not a criticism, just his personality. Val is very similar. A competitor is driven to compete.

[TiredMe]

I wish they would disinvite Allison from being on this show. She is my least fav pro. Just doesn't belong. Poor Babyface

[srpturtle80]

I haven't watched this show in many, many seasons. However, I tuned in this season solely for one reason - Calvin Johnson. I am a Michigander who loves football, so I just had to watch and see how he handled it all. I think he is absolutely amazing, and I have completely fallen in love with him!  Obviously I loved him for his football skills but now I see his personality which is so engaging, something his "Megatron" persona didn't exactly reveal. I also think he's being underscored, especially this week. LOVE LOVE LOVE him!!! And, shallow note, he sure is easy on the eyes, lol!

[crossover]

26 minutes ago, TiredMe said:

I wish they would disinvite Allison from being on this show. She is my least fav pro. Just doesn't belong. Poor Babyface

I know most people would rather have a ballroom pro who had been on the circuit instead of Allison but she's not the reason that Babyface finished where he did.  Nor is she the reason why Riker didn't win.  The danced-trained male celebs (Mario, Corbin, etc) haven't won.

Babyface may have lasted another week with a different pro, but I don't think so.  This is probably where he would've ended up considering his dance ability, fanbase and the dwts fans not being his demographic.  That's why I wasn't surprised about Vanilla Ice--it's not his demographic either.  Amber should be next for the same reasons unless her latest with Julianne and Maks partnership spark some support.  That may give her another week.

[gohawks]

On 10/3/2016 at 7:14 PM, Uke said:

 

Quote

The fourth week of performances.

 

I can see Sharna,Peta, Karina or Anna taking him further and getting more out of him.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 minutes ago, gohawks said:

I can see Sharna,Peta, Karina or Anna taking him further and getting more out of him.

Most of them have much bigger fan bases , so he could have lasted longer with someone else.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

...it would be, by me, appreciated.

*bonus points for knowing the line ;)

Just for you, radishcake:

Come quick! Sam's getting his ass kicked by a girl! Ginger, get the popcorn!   ;)

Edited October 6, 2016 by sinkwriter

[gohawks]

3 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Most of them have much bigger fan bases , so he could have lasted longer with someone else.

I truly was thinking only of their teaching styles and the fact that they are ballroom dancers. I believe Babyface had more in him and another instructor could have brought that out.

 

 

Add Kym to the list.

[ocelot]

9 hours ago, TiredMe said:

I wish they would disinvite Allison from being on this show. She is my least fav pro. Just doesn't belong. Poor Babyface

I always defend Alison but that routine with the lighting really pissed me off. It made it really clear that she views DWTS as an opportunity to showcase herself and her choreography, and was doing that to the detriment of her contestant. It made me so mad how she was acting afterward, I felt so bad for him. I don't want her on the show either, because I just don't think the show works when they try to meld genres like this. I think if they want other dance styles represented, they should invite guests who do those styles professionally, because it's a disservice to everyone (pros, contestants, people who enjoy the style that's being butchered, people who don't want to see that style period). I think going over the top with elaborate routines every week has turned it into a show about the pros being genius choreographers when they're not? Most of them (current ones) aren't even choreographers? It's all about egos, of the pros (and it's not just Derek) and of the show itself--it is trying to make itself into something it's just not going to be, and it's so cringeworthy watching them try to act it out every week.

All of that being said, I understand much of it is to do with ratings as well, and they have to do what they have to do to stay on air. Also, it's true that doing the same old thing would get boring quickly. So I don't really know what the solution is. Just complaining lol.

I miss Mark a lot. I'm not a fan of his choreography (in general, loved what he did with the kids on sytycd jr this season though!), but he seemed so genuine in his wacky themes and dances that it didn't seem ego driven to me. Like that was really just what his mind came up with. But Derek for instance, it just seems like he's really going for a specific effect and a specific reaction (so the opposite of genuine), and it's always given to him which is just doubly irritating because he never creates anything actually good(edit: imo)? There's something colorful about Mark's work that even though I don't really like the choreo, I still enjoy watching it if that makes sense. It's endearing.

Anyway not sure how I got onto this rant.

Edited October 6, 2016 by ocelot

[MsJamieDornan]

5 hours ago, gohawks said:

truly was thinking only of their teaching styles and the fact that they are ballroom dancers. I believe Babyface had more in him and another instructor could have brought that out

Absolutely.

[Glaadrial]

On 10/3/2016 at 10:42 PM, bybrandy said:

I fully believe Julianne did not intend to slut shame Amber Rose.

From what I saw on the show, the comment was not made to Amber, it was made behind her back (so to speak) in a moment when Julianne was speaking candidly to Bruno during the dance. The dance was not good, but uncomfortable? Really? This dance, IMO, was no worse than the Salsa that Val and Max came up with for Danika and Meryl (also to an awful JLo song) which was also lackluster. It was no where near as bad as some of the stuff we've seen on the show that's been truly unconformable to watch.

Since the comment was not intended for Amber's ears, Julianne really came off badly to me, much like a mean girl talking smack with a buddy about an unpopular girl. An apology from Julianne would have gone a long way to neutralize or, perhaps, sway some who are not inclined to like her. People who already like her or possibly her brother (since, I think I read a headline where he chimed in on her defense) are gonna be on her side anyway.

In the end, Amber (who I know nothing about) came off of the incident on the plus side for me, while Julianne gave me yet another reason to want her off my TV screen. I doubt she cares. It helped that I really enjoyed Amber's AT.

And speaking of really enjoying something, I really loved Terra's (sp?) Samba! I was pleasantly surprised that she received a 9 because, although I did catch some missteps, I really felt that she embodied the spirit of the dance in a way that I don't remember any other contestant has ever been able to do. Coming off of watching the Rio Olympics and getting to see how everybody in Rio, regardless of size or shape, just seems to throw themselves into the moment, this dance, I think, really captured that feel.

Also, poor Val. He actually thought that he was portraying Michael Jackson, when in fact, that honor went to Laurie and she handled it like a pro! Were there really five people on that stage? I only saw the one.

[crossover]

6 hours ago, gohawks said:

I truly was thinking only of their teaching styles and the fact that they are ballroom dancers. I believe Babyface had more in him and another instructor could have brought that out.

 

 

Add Kym to the list.

Unless you're just a favorite or have a decent fanbase causing you to last longer than you should, I think most celebs have more in them once they past three or four weeks.  Considering this season's cast, I still don't see Babyface lasting longer with anyone else. 

Of Sharna, Peta, Anna, Karina, or Kym, Kym is the only one I can see who could've made a big difference.  She creates entertaining routines and has good chemistry with her partners.  Maybe Karina could've gotten him another week?   She use to create intricate routines (for beginners) but she's loosened up.  Sharna normally gets the dance savvy celeb or the ones with decent fanbases and they go far.  Otherwise, they were quick exits.  Peta gets the abled or better-knowned celeb as well  Otherwise, they were quick exits.  Can't remember Anna as being a difference maker?  She couldn't win with Evan. 

After week one, no one is surprised by Laurie, Jana, James, Terra or Calvin.  Maureen and Marilu should have decent fan support especially Marilu with Derek's fanbase as well; and the Marcia Marcia Marcia sentiment.  TPTB received or created controversy for Ryan and Amber which usually means at least a short term support system.  Plus they have two of the popular pros and their fanbases.  So who would Babyface had replaced?

Now if you just want to criticize Allison's last choreographed routine, I'm with you.  It was too advanced for Babyface.  People should take a page out of Maks/Val's book during the first weeks (unless you have a ringer)--simplistic, baby steps, arse around and shortened.

[katha]

Pros are seldom to blame for exits of contestants. But the perennial argument against Allison is this IMO: She's arguably incapable of teaching her partners the basics as well as the other pros and so they never dance as well as they might with another teacher. Even with Riker, he already had the goods and oftentimes his energetic performances covered up Allison's own deficits as both ballroom dancer and ballroom choreographer. People like Andy or Babyface or Jonathan IMO would have probably learned more and improved more with other pros, her busy and hectic choreo didn't help them either. It was too much for them and rather hindered their progress. None of that means that they'd have necessarily lasted longer, but perhaps becoming better dancers might have given them a greater chance to progress?

[crossover]

3 minutes ago, katha said:

Pros are seldom to blame for exits of contestants. But the perennial argument against Allison is this IMO: She's arguably incapable of teaching her partners the basics as well as the other pros and so they never dance as well as they might with another teacher. Even with Riker, he already had the goods and oftentimes his energetic performances covered up Allison's own deficits as both ballroom dancer and ballroom choreographer. People like Andy or Babyface or Jonathan IMO would have probably learned more and improved more with other pros, her busy and hectic choreo didn't help them either. It was too much for them and rather hindered their progress. None of that means that they'd have necessarily lasted longer, but perhaps becoming better dancers might have given them a greater chance to progress?

The bolded may be correct.  But you can't be sure because there's been several celebs who had ballroom pros and  we've said they would've done better if they had had so 'n so.  We really don't know what Babyface learned.  But we do know the last choreography was too much for him.