The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[fonfereksglen]

3 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

Of course, NONE of the extended Duggar family has done a damn thing to serve their country nor defend their country.  God does not keep us free. 😬😡😬

[Absolom]

I really feel for Deanna.  She says she's moving and that she was the main one taking care of Mary after the mini-strokes and her mom was in PT.  

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I really feel for Deanna.  She says she's moving and that she was the main one taking care of Mary after the mini-strokes and her mom was in PT.  

That's always hard, for sure, being a caretaker. Did she live with her mom?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Zella

[Sew Sumi]

I think Mary lived with Deanna for a time after D's divorce, but she lived alone in the Pool House. Deanna was picking Mary up for dinner when she found her in the pool. 😢

[Absolom]

51 minutes ago, Zella said:

That's always hard, for sure, being a caretaker. Did she live with her mom?

She didn't say that in so many words in the posts that I read, but she did say there were too many memories there.  So it sounds like she did or maybe the memories were from when her mother lived with her and was over with her a lot of the time.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Absolom

[Zella]

28 minutes ago, Absolom said:

She didn't say that in so many words in the posts that I read, but she did say there were too many memories there.  So it sounds like she did or maybe the memories were from when her mother lived with her and was over with a lot of the time.

That makes sense, and she certainly does have my sympathy on that.

[Annb67]

16 hours ago, latetotheparty said:

Gag me. 

Oh look pretend soldiers saluting the flag and miracle, licker-of-all things baby Josie squawking the Star Spangled Banner. 

[Oldernowiser]

Pet peeve: just because it’s a little kid singing does not change the fact that it’s ATROCIOUS and hurts to hear.

[jcbrown]

19 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

Could they have played that any slower? Josie's vocal quality is terrible but I have to give her a point for pitch. She was pretty on-pitch there and it's a tough song to sing. But one of my cats came around the couch looking very concerned when I played that clip. I think it hurt her ears. 

[ginger90]

2 pictures 

[Kbo]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

2 pictures 

“Tag a friend”—are you kidding me?  Even if I wasn’t embarrassed to admit my Duggar obsession, I wouldn’t subject anybody I remotely liked to that caterwauling. 

Remember how in the 80s they blared rock music outside Noriega’s compound?  If they’d had this CD he wouldn’t have lasted a day. 

[lascuba]

23 hours ago, WalrusGirl said:

Ugh, I haven’t dug around looking for what you saw yet, but with how terrified my dad was when he woke up to use the restroom and realized he was half paralyzed and couldn’t speak - knowing exactly what had happened - adding water to that is just extra heartbreaking.

[Though - if it was a stroke that led to the fall into the pool - I’m really curious why the coroner wouldn’t have said that when releasing the statement they did re drowning anyway, as they’d only know it was another stroke due to the postmortem exam and it would have been listed after drowning as the cause of death (drowning as the immediate cause of death, but due to a CVA).]

Depending on where in the brain it was, a stroke might not be immediately evident at autopsy. Plus, I don't know about Arkansas specifically, but coroners--as opposed to medical examiners--aren't always required to be pathologists or even have any medical training at all, so they might have had to wait for a neuropathologist to examine the brain. 

Autopsy reports take a while to be completed, so while an immediate cause of death like drowning might be obvious, anything else isn't going to be stated until they know for sure. 

[WalrusGirl]

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

Depending on where in the brain it was, a stroke might not be immediately evident at autopsy. Plus, I don't know about Arkansas specifically, but coroners--as opposed to medical examiners--aren't always required to be pathologists or even have any medical training at all, so they might have had to wait for a neuropathologist to examine the brain. 

Autopsy reports take a while to be completed, so while an immediate cause of death like drowning might be obvious, anything else isn't going to be stated until they know for sure. 

Makes sense - thanks! I’d just sort of assumed that the autopsy was completed that they were making the statement. That (if?) she did have another stroke as the causal factor is a pretty fundamental contributor to her cause of death. 😔 (And presumably was the family’s major question/thought, given her recent history.) 

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, lascuba said:

Depending on where in the brain it was, a stroke might not be immediately evident at autopsy. Plus, I don't know about Arkansas specifically, but coroners--as opposed to medical examiners--aren't always required to be pathologists or even have any medical training at all, so they might have had to wait for a neuropathologist to examine the brain. 

Autopsy reports take a while to be completed, so while an immediate cause of death like drowning might be obvious, anything else isn't going to be stated until they know for sure. 

Arkansas coroners: 

'LITTLE ROCK, Ark. –Arkansas has virtually zero qualifications for a person to run and be elected, despite Coroners’ important roles in investigations and determining cause of death for thousands...........All 75 counties in Arkansas have a coroner, and just two of those are appointed positions.

You can run and be elected with zero medical knowledge, anatomical training or any official certification of any kind.

“You have to be 18 years or older. You cannot be a felon. And you’re electable,” Moore said.'

https://www.fox16.com/news/local-news/a-look-into-becoming-an-arkansas-coroner/

However, if Mary was living in Tontitown or Sprindale, she was in the county of the highest-paid coroner in the state. So maybe that person would have qualifications?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

Some are non-medical coroners. There’s medical examiners, pathologists, etc. I think articles written identify coroner’s supposed roles incorrectly. The non-medical receive reports, they don’t perform autopsies.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ginger90

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Some are non-medical coroners. There’s medical examiners, pathologists, etc. I think articles written identify coroner’s supposed roles incorrectly. The non-medical receive reports, they don’t perform autopsies.

It is also quite possible that there wasn't a formal autopsy.  Unless there are signs of foul play, an autopsy is generally not done unless the family wants it.  I could see the Duggars feeling like it wasn't necessary.  When my dad died (cardiac arrest at home), the coroner (an actual trained pathologist) called me and asked if I thought there was anything that needed investigated and did we want an autopsy.  I told him my siblings and I were fine with no autopsy and that I believed it was a natural death.  The end.

The medical examiner could've grossly examined Mary's body, read through the police reports and signed off on it as a drowning without delving into the potential medical causes behind it if the family didn't want an autopsy,

[lascuba]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

It is also quite possible that there wasn't a formal autopsy.  Unless there are signs of foul play, an autopsy is generally not done unless the family wants it.  I could see the Duggars feeling like it wasn't necessary.  When my dad died (cardiac arrest at home), the coroner (an actual trained pathologist) called me and asked if I thought there was anything that needed investigated and did we want an autopsy.  I told him my siblings and I were fine with no autopsy and that I believed it was a natural death.  The end.

The medical examiner could've grossly examined Mary's body, read through the police reports and signed off on it as a drowning without delving into the potential medical causes behind it if the family didn't want an autopsy,

Deanna is apparently claiming that Mary had suffered a major stroke, so that's why I assume she had an autopsy. Although it's entirely possible she's just assuming it was a stroke because of her medical history and thinks she wouldn't have drowned otherwise.

[Zella]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Some are non-medical coroners. There’s medical examiners, pathologists, etc. I think articles written identify coroner’s supposed roles incorrectly. The non-medical receive reports, they don’t perform autopsies.

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Arkansas coroners: 

'LITTLE ROCK, Ark. –Arkansas has virtually zero qualifications for a person to run and be elected, despite Coroners’ important roles in investigations and determining cause of death for thousands...........All 75 counties in Arkansas have a coroner, and just two of those are appointed positions.

You can run and be elected with zero medical knowledge, anatomical training or any official certification of any kind.

“You have to be 18 years or older. You cannot be a felon. And you’re electable,” Moore said.'

https://www.fox16.com/news/local-news/a-look-into-becoming-an-arkansas-coroner/

However, if Mary was living in Tontitown or Sprindale, she was in the county of the highest-paid coroner in the state. So maybe that person would have qualifications?

Yeah just chiming into say my county's coroner--or at least the one I remember--was not a medical professional, but he was a longtime funeral home employee and volunteer first responder. Coroner was a side gig for him. The other coroner I remember was also a funeral home employee and did coroner on the side. I have no doubt that both men did it to the best of their abilities, but they certainly don't do autopsies. I think those bodies that needed autopsies may have even been sent to Little Rock automatically. The handful of murders we have a year certainly automatically go down there and we have to wait awhile for cause of death for that reason. 

[Albanyguy]

28 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Deanna is apparently claiming that Mary had suffered a major stroke, so that's why I assume she had an autopsy. Although it's entirely possible she's just assuming it was a stroke because of her medical history and thinks she wouldn't have drowned otherwise.

Deanna may be clinging to the thought that Mary actually had a stroke because it makes her death easier to accept. The prospect of an elderly, conscious woman falling into a pool and slowly drowning while struggling to survive is horrifying. If Deanna believes that Mary had a major stroke, passed out instantly and was mercifully unconscious when she entered the water, it may provide a measure of comfort.

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Deanna may be clinging to the thought that Mary actually had a stroke because it makes her death easier to accept. The prospect of an elderly, conscious woman falling into a pool and slowly drowning while struggling to survive is horrifying. If Deanna believes that Mary had a major stroke, passed out instantly and was mercifully unconscious when she entered the water, it may provide a measure of comfort.

She may also have been told that by first responders or whatever to shield her. I had a relative killed in a horrific traffic accident. All the first responders lied and said he was killed instantly. I know that wasn't true, but I would never tell my other relatives that because they took immense comfort in the idea he didn't suffer. 😞 

[BitterApple]

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

She may also have been told that by first responders or whatever to shield her. I had a relative killed in a horrific traffic accident. All the first responders lied and said he was killed instantly. I know that wasn't true, but I would never tell my other relatives that because they took immense comfort in the idea he didn't suffer. 😞 

I did the same when my father was in the end stages of cancer. When I called his brother up in Canada to tell him he'd passed, the first words out of his mouth were "Did he suffer?." I said no, which was a total lie, but I didn't see the need to upset him any further. Sometimes it's better not to know.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

She may also have been told that by first responders or whatever to shield her. I had a relative killed in a horrific traffic accident. All the first responders lied and said he was killed instantly. I know that wasn't true, but I would never tell my other relatives that because they took immense comfort in the idea he didn't suffer. 😞 

My nephew drowned in a pool when he was 5.  One of the first things the ER doc said to her and her husband was that he would've been unconscious within seconds and that she was sure he felt no pain or panic.  After she left the room my sister said, "I know she was lying, but it was nice of her to try to make us feel better."

I would not be surprised at all to hear that the EMT's and ER staff told Deanna something similar.

Edited July 3, 2019 by doodlebug

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

My nephew drowned in a pool when he was 5.  One of the first things the ER doc said to her and her husband was that he would've been unconscious within seconds and that she was sure he felt no pain or panic.  After she left the room my sister said, "I know she was lying, but it was nice of her to try to make us feel better."

I would not be surprised at all to hear that the EMT's and ER staff told Deanna something similar.

Yes, even once I realized they were lying, I couldn't be angry about it. I would have done the same thing if I were in their shoes and had to notify a grieving family about a death. 

[Sew Sumi]

If the EMTs lied to Deanna, it's interesting that they chose "major stroke" as the cause for her falling into the pool. What about heart attack or aneurism? They don't know Mary's history. 

I guess we'll never know the truth, just the truth as Deanna saw fit to share it.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Sew Sumi
Need to cut my nails to reduce typos!

[Oldernowiser]

In the Duggardome, if you say anything enough it becomes true. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

If the EMTs lied to Deanna, it's interesting that they chose "major stroke" as the cause for her falling into the pool. What about heart attack or aneurism? They don't know Mary's history. 

I guess we'll never know the truth, just the truth as Deanna saw fit to share it.

Deanna was there, I would expect that she told the EMT's about Mary's recent small strokes and I could see an EMT telling her that Mary perhaps had a big stroke that caused her to fall into the pool and drown.

[Absolom]

And perhaps Deanna is right and Mary did have a major stroke.  

[Sew Sumi]

@doodlebug, I agree that was the likely scenario.

[WalrusGirl]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

If the EMTs lied to Deanna, it's interesting that they chose "major stroke" as the cause for her falling into the pool. What about heart attack or aneurism? They don't know Mary's history. 

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Deanna was there, I would expect that she told the EMT's about Mary's recent small strokes and I could see an EMT telling her that Mary perhaps had a big stroke that caused her to fall into the pool and drown.

Yeah, Deanna was the one who called and was there - she’d obviously have been trying to make sense of it and Mary’s recent health history would have come out of her mouth.

It hadn’t occurred to me that there wasn’t an autopsy after the coroner actually *stated* drowning as cause of death, but it does make sense that they could have concluded that (no foul play regardless) without an autopsy, and now that we’re talking about it it’s very likely the EMTs offered “major stroke.” So the coroner vs Deanna’s statements could both be “true” as they know/believe it without any autopsy/autopsy report. A friend’s mother died while snorkeling with friends - she had been fine and intentionally in the water, etc. They were told given age, health, family history, etc that it was probably a stroke or heart attack while in the water, and they declined the autopsy because they didn’t feel the need to pin down which had happened and how instant it was. 😔

[ginger90]

[Saylii]

There can also be physical signs of a stroke, but depending on the time lapse it could muddy the results.  When it’s a drowning, it has to be definitively declared a drowning.  So the coroner could have just peeked in the lungs, verified drowning was the cause of death (if she was dead before she was in the water there’d be nothing in the lungs), and done no other tests.  It doesn’t matter on the death certificate what the secondary cause is in a drowning.

[mynextmistake]

On 7/9/2019 at 11:25 AM, ginger90 said:

And of course Jyler is wearing an antiabortion t-shirt, because that’s what all the 12-year-old boys wear to the rodeo. 🙄

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

And of course Jyler is wearing an antiabortion t-shirt, because that’s what all the 12-year-old boys wear to the rodeo. 🙄

Never known or seen a young child, boy or girl, wear one IRL either. With the exception of the Duggar ilk.

[Tasya]

Josie actually doesn't sound terrible. I've been subjected to some truly terrible renditions of the anthem but that one wouldn't rate on my "plug my ears and wince" scale. My only issue is why didn't all the singing girls get to participate instead of just the "miracle"? 

[Barb23]

8 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

And of course Jyler is wearing an antiabortion t-shirt, because that’s what all the 12-year-old boys wear to the rodeo. 🙄

That's probably all they have in the communal closet.

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Never known or seen a young child, boy or girl, wear one IRL either. With the exception of the Duggar ilk.

Stop by DC next January 24. 😀

(Yeah, I know. A political action. So not a fair test... Still can seem surprising, though.)

Edited July 12, 2019 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Stop by DC next January 24. 😀

Well shit, that's my birthday. Crossing DC off my list. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the shirts from now on though.

[DangerousMinds]

6 hours ago, Barb23 said:

That's probably all they have in the communal closet.

His mom needs to get him the hell out of there.

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Well shit, that's my birthday. Crossing DC off my list. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the shirts from now on though.

Yes, seeing it might turn your stomach off birthday cake. You don't want that. 😀

[ginger90]

This is from a couple of days ago.

From Amy’s Twitter:

[Sew Sumi]

Too lazy to go to IG, but both Amy and Dill posted pics of Amy in a bikini. Get it, girl!

[ginger90]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Too lazy to go to IG, but both Amy and Dill posted pics of Amy in a bikini. Get it, girl!

Here’s one:

[BitterApple]

Amy carries pregnancy really well.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Amy carries pregnancy really well.

She really does for summer in Arkansas.  The heat and humidity make me retain water anyways, I would hate to imagine myself pregnant during the summer in the south.

[Barb23]

Uncle Jim Bob & Aunt Michelle are probably having the vapors over seeing that picture.  NIKE !!!

[DkNNy79]

Amy is obviously not fundie like them and yet they haven't cut her off.  She seems to be invited to all the family functions and is still friendly with her cousins.

So to me I would think if one of the Dugger children were to break away "slightly" they wouldn't be ostracized by their family.  If they aren't going to ostracize a niece/cousin, one would think they wouldn't ostracize one of their kids?  I guess it could be dependent on how they break away.  Come out as gay.  Reveal they're an athiest.  Pro-choice...etc

[FizzyPuff]

14 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

Amy is obviously not fundie like them and yet they haven't cut her off.  She seems to be invited to all the family functions and is still friendly with her cousins.

So to me I would think if one of the Dugger children were to break away "slightly" they wouldn't be ostracized by their family.  If they aren't going to ostracize a niece/cousin, one would think they wouldn't ostracize one of their kids?  I guess it could be dependent on how they break away.  Come out as gay.  Reveal they're an athiest.  Pro-choice...etc

Mow their lawn in a bikini 😉

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, Puffin said:

Mow their lawn in a bikini 😉

While knocked up! 😂

[Aunt Catfish]

12 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Here’s one:

Is the red and green combo for Christmas in July or something?  Does anyone out there agree with me that a little modesty might be called for in this case?  Not sure why we need to see this.  It reminds me of living in Florida in the eighties.  The sight of beer gutted old guys in Speedos is burned into my memory!

[ginger90]