The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[GEML]

Just want to say that if her pattern is one seizure every six months or so, that shouldn't have any impact on Josie's development. Seizures are only dangerous if they are constant and uncontrollable, or if they happen for very long periods of time. That she went from a few minutes to a ten-fifteen minute one is a big deal, but not necessarily because of development, but because it means they will likely need to take action in a different way. (Use medication if they aren't, adjust a dose or try something new if they are, etc.)

The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has epilepsy. He has had multiple seizures as an adult. They do not impact development or intelligence except in the most serious of cases, and I see no sign that Josie would fall into that category.

Edited May 12, 2015 by GEML

[Literata]

I don't find Josie to be a very appealing little girl, but that's basically because, IMO, she's gross (licking everything, never looks entirely clean, and WHAT the hell does Michelle put in her hair?). But she doesn't seem as cognitively delayed as I might have expected she would be.

 

Her rhotacism isn't unusual for her age, and her conversation, while not always easy to understand, does seem to make sense most of the time. In some of the THs, she does seem to be acting pretty silly, but I'd call that more a function of her exalted position in the family (not only the baby, but the miracle baby, and indulged by all); she thinks her obnoxiousness is hilarious because chances are everyone responds to it. Honestly, sometimes she seems more on the ball than poor, forgotten Jordyn.

The seizures are concerning, but I agree with GEML; her development and intelligence likely are not being impacted. That said, though, I hope they're being treated appropriately, and I also wonder about her eyes; like the eyes of many preemies, they looked very odd when she was a baby, and they still look sort of uber-pronounced and strange.

[Wellfleet]

I don't find Josie to be a very appealing little girl, but that's basically because, IMO, she's gross (licking everything, never looks entirely clean, and WHAT the hell does Michelle put in her hair?). But she doesn't seem as cognitively delayed as I might have expected she would be.

 

Her rhotacism isn't unusual for her age, and her conversation, while not always easy to understand, does seem to make sense most of the time. In some of the THs, she does seem to be acting pretty silly, but I'd call that more a function of her exalted position in the family (not only the baby, but the miracle baby, and indulged by all); she thinks her obnoxiousness is hilarious because chances are everyone responds to it. Honestly, sometimes she seems more on the ball than poor, forgotten Jordyn.

The seizures are concerning, but I agree with GEML; her development and intelligence likely are not being impacted. That said, though, I hope they're being treated appropriately, and I also wonder about her eyes; like the eyes of many preemies, they looked very odd when she was a baby, and they still look sort of uber-pronounced and strange.

 

Thank you, Literata. I've also thought there was something off about Josie's eyes. Some kind of quality she's had since first being filmed in the NICU, and that I've never noticed with other preemies. Until now I thought it was just my imagination.

[JoanArc]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/amy-duggar-fires-producer-jamie-slocum-reality-star-gets-new-show/

 

An Amy show will be just as successful as Bristol Palin's reality tv venture.

 

 

Finally...hard numbers!

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/amy-duggar-fires-producer-jamie-slocum-reality-star-gets-new-show/

 

An Amy show will be just as successful as Bristol Palin's reality tv venture.

 

 

When TLC wanted more shows, Slocum said he began negotiating with the network lawyers and managed to bump Duggar’s salary to $20,000 per episode from $3500.

 

Finally...hard numbers!

 

 

The paycheck for her sidekick mom and grandma got bumped to $6000 per episode form $1,000, he told Radar.

 

 

The Duggars clan, who pride themselves for their Christian values, incredibly tried to convince Slocum that he was religiously obligated to do the charity work for them.

Edited May 15, 2015 by JoanArc

[JenCarroll]

Well, hard numbers from Radar Online. They're not the most reliable outfit.

[CofCinci]

Speculation that this is Joseph's girlfriend, as she has popped up in some photos.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=745123802253098&id=269181913180625

[Fuzzysox]

Speculation that this is Joseph's girlfriend, as she has popped up in some photos.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=745123802253098&id=269181913180625

Yeah we are talking about it on Pickles but I find Tabitha Paine way too old at 29 for Joseph. Wondering if she is more of a nanny/homefoooling teacher?

[CofCinci]

She's 29? And unmarried.  Poor thing must be that family's Jana.

[JenCarroll]

I think if I were 29 and unmarried in her circumstances, I wouldn't turn up my nose at a 21-year old if he were interested. Just sayin'.

[CarolMK]

Joseph is only 20, his birthday was in January. I don't think it's a courtship imo. Maybe she's around to teach the younger kids while the Duggars are traveling or whatever else they're doing since Jessa isn't living at home anymore to do it.

[JoanArc]

Well, hard numbers from Radar Online. They're not the most reliable outfit.

FWIW Slocum confirmed the article was true on his facebook page. The money seems in line with what reality stars get.

[BitterApple]

Wow, that girl is Chad's sister? I guess the boys got all the looks in that family.

Since I'm already in bitch mode, I'm going to go ahead and say Jackson has the nastiest, most yellow teeth I've ever seen on a little kid. Seriously, is he smoking two packs of Marlboro a day?

[JenCarroll]

Thank you, Literata. I've also thought there was something off about Josie's eyes. Some kind of quality she's had since first being filmed in the NICU, and that I've never noticed with other preemies. Until now I thought it was just my imagination.

It's true, there's something strangely fetal about Josie's face. I've known a number of preemies that grew up, and none of them looked like that. On the other hand, wide set eyes and high and broad foreheads are characteristically Duggar (look at James, for example) and Josie may have just hit the genetic jackpot with very strong expressions of all of those traits.

Since I'm already in bitch mode, I'm going to go ahead and say Jackson has the nastiest, most yellow teeth I've ever seen on a little kid. Seriously, is he smoking two packs of Marlboro a day?

You think anyone takes him for routine dentist visits? Or even checks whether he's brushing his teeth? Those teeth just scream "neglected child" to me.

[Fuzzysox]

Where or where is Jinger? She doesn't seem to be around much.

[BitterApple]

It's true, there's something strangely fetal about Josie's face. I've known a number of preemies that grew up, and none of them looked like that. On the other hand, wide set eyes and high and broad foreheads are characteristically Duggar (look at James, for example) and Josie may have just hit the genetic jackpot with very strong expressions of all of those traits.

You think anyone takes him for routine dentist visits? Or even checks whether he's brushing his teeth? Those teeth just scream "neglected child" to me.

I think Josie looks just like her brothers and nothing at all like any of her sisters. Jinger has a slight resemblance to Josh but other than that none of the girls look like any of the boys.

Regarding Jackson, I think the kids visit the dentist because we've seen it in prior epis, but the adults probably aren't making sure he's brushing and flossing at least twice a day. The way that kid's going he'll be fitted for dentures before he graduates SOTDRT.

[Literata]

I think Josie looks just like her brothers and nothing at all like any of her sisters. Jinger has a slight resemblance to Josh but other than that none of the girls look like any of the boys.

Johannah sometimes looks like Josh as well, but I've always thought Josh has a totally different look.

I think Josie looks like MEchelle, but really not like anyone else.

[graefin]

Well, hard numbers from Radar Online. They're not the most reliable outfit.

Maybe Radar isn't reliable, but the numbers are from Slocum. So in this case, I'd assume they're accurate. If they're going to pay Amy $20k per episode for her off-key "singing," I can't imagine what the Duggars are raking in.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I think Josie looks just like her brothers and nothing at all like any of her sisters. Jinger has a slight resemblance to Josh but other than that none of the girls look like any of the boys.

Regarding Jackson, I think the kids visit the dentist because we've seen it in prior epis, but the adults probably aren't making sure he's brushing and flossing at least twice a day. The way that kid's going he'll be fitted for dentures before he graduates SOTDRT.

It can be the luck of the draw sometimes when it comes to teeth. My older son, especially during his adolescent years, was constantly walking around with horrible looking teeth, and resisted brushing whenever it was brought up. He's still not great about it, but at the age of 29 has still never had a single cavity. My daughter, on the other hand, has always been meticulous about it and seems to need something or another done almost every time she sees a dentist.

[Fuzzysox]

I read that article about Famy. IDK what to believe since it claims she is engaged!?!? Hmm wouldn't she have announced it already? Should we be putting out our tinfoil dresses for A Very Famy Wedding?

[Kellyee]

Does John David still live in the house with his parents? He and Jana are 25 now, correct? I get that Jana's not allowed to leave until some guy agrees to marry her, but it doesn't seem like either of them is getting anywhere financially, socially, or maturity-wise. How come none of the biological Duggars have gone to college?? Does the homeschooling beat the ambition out of every single one of them?

[JoanArc]

I read that article about Famy. IDK what to believe since it claims she is engaged!?!? Hmm wouldn't she have announced it already? Should we be putting out our tinfoil dresses for A Very Famy Wedding?

She'll announce when the time (Read: $$$$) is right. A couple of days before the show premiers.

 

I wonder how Grandma likes spending her senior years as a $6k-a-pop reality show sidekick.

[neural-plasticity]

Yeah we are talking about it on Pickles but I find Tabitha Paine way too old at 29 for Joseph. Wondering if she is more of a nanny/homefoooling teacher?

 

I've heard rumors that Tabitha may be dating John David. He's a little closer to age with her. Who knows.

[NikSac]

She'll announce when the time (Read: $$$$) is right. A couple of days before the show premiers.

 

I wonder how Grandma likes spending her senior years as a $6k-a-pop reality show sidekick.

 

eh... I dunno but if someone wants to pay me that much for doing laundry all day, I'll take it.

[truebluesmoky]

I know this has been discussed before, but watching the girls' room redo after Jill and Jessa moved out got me thinking... do we know anything about the bed situation? I remember years ago seeing that all the littlest girls were still stuck in pack and plays or actually shared beds with the older girls. Was it just Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger who had the real beds with their names on the headboards? At this point, Jana, Jinger, Joy, Hannie, Jenny, Jordyn, and Josie are all in that room, right? So are they all sharing the 4 beds???

 

In the boys' room, I just assume it's a free for all with everyone sleeping everywhere... floors, dressers, drawers, etc. LOL

[questionfear]

This is probably the best spot to bring this up:

I know we've all discussed how if someone were driven enough they could get up and leave, and how people have escaped more oppressive environments. But I think the difference between other cults/oppressive families and the Duggars is that there's a very real, very tangible element of public guilt there. If, say, Jinger says screw it and runs off to NYC, she probably gets the show some small amount of publicity, but there's also the risk that the family loses money from her leaving. If one of the kids writes a tell-all about how awful JB really is, the show potentially gets canned and the family is back to being poor.

 

Even if JB has a ton of cash stashed away and that's not a real risk, it's probably a perceived risk that the kids all assimilated into their beliefs. So it's not just bucking your parents, it's potentially dooming the family members you do like to a life of poverty/embarassment/social risk far above and beyond what would exist if they weren't on TV. These kids have been taught that the family brand is the business and if they tarnish it they aren't just harming JB and J'Chelle, they're harming (or think they're harming) the other kids, and badly...I wonder how much that potential guilt holds them back even further.

[GEML]

I think that's a legitimate point, but I would just point out that this same argument is actually played out on a smaller scale for preacher, missionary and other children who have parents who are making their living through what secular people would call a "brand" and religious people would call their "ministry."

Families who have children who leave the church decline in status - the pastor may actually lose a church over a truly problematic child. Amish families where repeated children leave have poor reputations which can impact the business and marriage impact of younger children.

And of course, families where children stay and continue the brand are often families that are financially, socially and culturally rewarded over time.

So while the stakes are higher and we are more aware of this, within the Fundy subculture, this is business as usual. If you leave, you make all of us suffer for your selfishness.

[Crazycatlady]

I'm watching rhe episode where they talk about courting more and all of Jinger's responses sound like today's traditional dating with the label of courtship. Talking about getting to know them, making sure you both have the same interests except having marriage in the back of the mind. Gives me more hope she'll somehow breakaway from her family. She really knows how to take photos and I hope she's allowed to peruse that further. It's perfextly fine for a woman to want to take a traditional role in the home, but they should actually want to do so.

[mbutterfly]

In another thread there was a clip from 2007 that asserted Grandma Mary played a significant role in starting the family in show business. This makes sense to me. She's never struck me as a woman stuck in the laundry room. She may do laundry -- I rather enjoy doing laundry so it's quite possibly her choice role to play to create her story arch. I suspect she's played an important role in launching Amy's singing career too. 

[Chalby]

I don't find Josie to be a very appealing little girl, but that's basically because, IMO, she's gross (licking everything, never looks entirely clean, and WHAT the hell does Michelle put in her hair?). But she doesn't seem as cognitively delayed as I might have expected she would be.

I find her unappealing as well, and I blame her parents because my reaction is based on what I viewed. Her licking her hands, items, counters, is disgusting. Her televised 'crapping of the pants' made me gag. She often appears dirty (but probably because I still have that image of poop everywhere). Finally, I cannot handle when she is filmed as a 'talking head'. Half the time she can't even answer a simple question - she goes off on a tangent and then stops in mid-sentence, having lost her entire train of thought. For that matter, one of the younger boys (can't remember a name) seems so ignorant of any colloquialisms or general observations. Hasn't a clue what a 'gag gift' is, and has never heard the expression 'proof is in the pudding'. To me, this is a reflection of a lack of reading (for enjoyment). As a teacher, I cringe when I listen to Jill and Jessa speak, and want to reach through the television to shake the 'awesome' out of them. There is no excuse to have this many ignorant children. I don't believe Michelle ever adequately taught any of them as she can barely form a new thought, let alone teach one. An annoying group of people, and sadly, they are annoying only because their parents have made them so.

[Chalby]

 Gives me more hope she'll somehow breakaway from her family. 

 

I figured Jinger et el, will go one of two ways. Now that Josh is revealed for the pervert he is, and Boob and Michelle have clearly shown they are not going to offer the victims any sort of treatment, the girls are going to either withdraw further into the home, as the show goes off air, and their parents do not allow anyone to question them. Or ... they will get a clue and realize their stories could fetch a pretty penny from TLC, but only if they have the strength to break away from the cult, I mean family, and tell their side with parents censoring them.

[BitterApple]

I'm hoping that Jinger and Jana find either a mainstream Christian or a "regular" guy who will be supportive and understanding of their situation. I don't want them marrying some Fundie jerk who treats them like they should be grateful someone overlooked the fact that they're "damaged goods." A lot of these guys are insecure bullies who use their hypocritical religious beliefs to compensate for their inadequacies. Cases in point: Boob, Josh, TFDW, the Rodriguez guy, John Shrader etc. The last thing they need is more emotional abuse.

Edited May 23, 2015 by BitterApple

[Fostersmom]

Ok, this is horrible, but I'm finally watching Sling Blade of the first time… and i totally get the John David reference. Why yes, I am 20 years behind. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

There are Twitter pages for Jinger, Joy, Jana and Joe with posts that are somewhat pro-Josh.  They claim to be the official pages, but they all seem like they're written by the same person and are written by a 13-year-old.  Jill and Jessa's accounts are still silent.  Either the pages have been created by a fan or someone from the family has hijacked their pages.

[BitterApple]

Only the marrieds/courting have social media accounts outside of the Duggar Family official. Any other accounts are fan pages or fakes.

Edited May 24, 2015 by BitterApple

[Bella]

Only the marrieds/courting have social media accounts outside of the Duggar Family official. Any other accounts are fan pages or fakes.

How sure are you of this? If you have a good source for this statement, it would be really helpful to post it in the 19 Questions thread, if you don't mind. Thanks!

[BitterApple]

How sure are you of this? If you have a good source for this statement, it would be really helpful to post it in the 19 Questions thread, if you don't mind. Thanks!

I don't have any specific evidence just reasonable deduction. Jana recently had a FB page that was proven to be fake and Josh,Jill,Jessa and Si had zero social media presence until they started courting. The boys don't even have Smartphones or unlimited Internet access and it seems unlikely that a control freak like Boob would give teenagers a platform where they might inadvertently say something that doesn't jibe with the party line. If this isn't the case I'll happily stand corrected:)

Edited May 24, 2015 by BitterApple

[Bella]

Okay, thanks, BitterApple. If you get the chance, would you mind explaining on 19 Questions what you just said in this thread about the social media accounts? Thanks!

[Joan van Snark]

Excuse my ignorance but what does TFDW stand for?  I am pretty sure DW is David Waller--not sure about the TF part.

[may2]

the fabulous David Waller

[Ljohnson1987]

Hope Jackson's 11th birthday yesterday wasn't overshadowed by this mess.

[wanderwoman]

Hope Jackson's 11th birthday yesterday wasn't overshadowed by this mess.

I agree. But, how could it not be? We know TLC has been springing Fri special, private outings for birthdays. In the pastor, they've rented out skating rinks, zoos, and rock climbing places, to name a few. It would've been interesting to see how his birthday was celebrated. I think the days of huge parties and excursions are over with. He would've had to notice that the cameras and extraneous, filming "uncles" aren't there.

Someone on another forum said that a few members of the crew were seen flying out of Little Rock yesterday. I wonder how that's going to effect the crew members who moved to the area? Mr. Jim gave up time with his girls (he has two) to follow around this dog and pony show. I'm hoping the production company helps the crew transition.

[GEML]

Eh, Mr Jim gave up time so he could do a job that probably paid well and provided well for his two daughters. My husband doesn't "give up time with his daughter" to do x - he's working to provide for her. Any other use of language sounds a little too Duggarish, at least for my tastes.

[MrsMommy]

The real pages usually only follow file and the bates if they have 500 following then it's a good guess it's a fake account.

And the teenagers do all have smart phones, Internet or not idk but I've seen photos of them using their smart phones

[Luciano]

The girls have smartphones, although with restrictions. The boys either have those old dumbphones or smartphones that are completely locked down with no internet access whatsoever. See here.

[truthtalk2014]

Eh, Mr Jim gave up time so he could do a job that probably paid well and provided well for his two daughters. My husband doesn't "give up time with his daughter" to do x - he's working to provide for her. Any other use of language sounds a little too Duggarish, at least for my tastes.

Hubby worked in the same business for over 20 years. When you work in this business, this is typically what you do.  Sometimes you get a job that keeps you in a particular area for a while.  Most of the time you are around the country on jobs and then you are home.   It's the nature of the beast.   

 

I don't feel sorry for Jim.  He will have a new gig way before his pay runs out for this show.

[Micks Picks]

Well they said on the show the crew were like family.  Kate Gosselin said the same thing, but the show was cancelled, and the crew left.  IMO they were happy to go, and were showing more and more of Kate's horrible behavior on episodes.  This cost her most of her viewers and eventually the show.  She is back, but fewer episodes, and better behavior from her, which unfortunately translates to boring.

[Sew Sumi]

Hope Jackson's 11th birthday yesterday wasn't overshadowed by this mess.

No one, not even Amy, posted a birthday tribute for him. :(

Edited May 25, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[EarlGreyTea]

No one, not even Amy, posted a birthday tribute for him. :(

 

Was he the same kid who had to pick out his present from a hospital gift shop? If so, poor kid.

[Sunnybobs]

I don't really think anyone of them count post anything at the moment without being attacked by all the 1000s stalking them on social media. Also Jackson is 11, he would have no access to social media anyway so it would be a worthless gesture. Some of the comments made on their Instagram accounts are very disturbing, I'd be shutting mine down except I suppose at the moment even that would be interpreted as something it might not be meant as.

[SadForTheJSlaves]

Bringing this over from the 'Gimme That Small Time Religion' thread...

 

Where did the speculation that Jim Bob hated/is angry with his father originate from?