Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[toodles]

These people.  There are hundreds of ways to help others without moving to danger America.  Get involved with nonprofits.  Raise funds for food banks.  Work at a soup kitchen.  Minister at a hospice.  Apprentice with a real minister.  I know the Dillards only see one way, but grow the hell up already.  Do something real and maybe you will find something positive and uplifting to tweet about instead of hellfire and damnation.  

Edited February 13, 2017 by toodles

[Minivanessa]

36 minutes ago, toodles said:

 Do something real and maybe you will find something positive and uplifting to tweet about instead of hellfire and damnation.  

Wise words, but as long as Jill believes her parents are the World's Greatest Role Models, not a hope in hell that will happen. JB and MEchelle are all about "ministering by example," as when they declared their teevee show to be their "ministry." So, yeah, just by watching them bloviate about their fucking purity and speshul holiness, the world will be uplifted and souls will be saved. Throw in some trips to pass out cheap candy and nail polish in Central America while JB boasts to everyone he meets that he has NINETEEN KIDS!!, and passing out tracts instead of tips to the waitstaff in restaurants, and impromptu rah-rah share-the-gospel sessions with people you run into? And you're pretty much done. (And, IIRC, there was that time they "helped" by firing up the stinkbus and showing up with the whole fam damily for the photo opp after a tragic tornado in a neighboring state. Correct me if I mis-remembered this one.)

Ain't nobody gonna be hammering nails, working a regular volunteer shift at a food bank, laboring over a steam table to feed the hungry.

The Duggars show up to inspire. Not to perspire.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Jeeves
My memory often needs help

[Ljohnson1987]

If only Jill and the others realized that living with your parents until you're married isn't the only way. What if some never marry? Yikes. 

[ranchgirl]

Obviously, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors but during 19 Kids & Counting, the show usually showed Jill leading and being in charge of the younger siblings and the household.   I remember an episode where the kids made snacks to deliver to local fire stations and Jill headed that up.  She oversaw the baking and packaging and then she was the spokesperson when they arrived at the station etc. 

I remember when the rumors of Jessa courting first surfaced and the Duggars did an interview with some TV show and they elected Jill to be the spokesperson about courtships.  I remember how I thought Jessa was so shy and would never be able to really speak about a courtship, much less, be in one.  And look at Jessa now!  (This was the interview where one of the littles exposed that Jill was in a courtship too.)

The Jill that is shown now is meek, timid, unsure of herself, and doesn't want to be left alone.  I remember an episode not long after she was married and she was saying how she wanted Derick to quit his job and stay home with her.  Derick reminded her that he had to make money and then she said something like, "Well, we will talk about it more." 

Here is what Jill said when asked what she thought the gender of Jessa and Ben's baby was in last weeks episode:

While looking up to the left with her eyes as if trying to recall a conversation a long time ago .... "I think Derick said he thought maybe they were having a girl or somethin, so, I said 'well, I'm gonna pick what you pick cause your always right and I'm always wrong'." 

(The baby is either a girl or a boy, so the bolded words above really threw me off.) 

The way she phrased this answer to such a simple question made me sad.  Its like she isn't allowed a thought or she doesn't want a thought.  Maybe since Derick was wrong on this baby, she will feel she could make a guess on her own next time.   

I had such high hopes for Derick and Jill.  By the way she was portrayed in the series and how she ran that household, I really thought she was strong and would be independent after marriage.  It seemed like she made decisions for the household all the time.  I thought she would be an excellent house cleaner, cook, and baby mamma.  But once married and into her own household, its like she reverted into a little girl. 

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, ranchgirl said:

Obviously, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors but during 19 Kids & Counting, the show usually showed Jill leading and being in charge of the younger siblings and the household.   I remember an episode where the kids made snacks to deliver to local fire stations and Jill headed that up.  She oversaw the baking and packaging and then she was the spokesperson when they arrived at the station etc. 

I remember when the rumors of Jessa courting first surfaced and the Duggars did an interview with some TV show and they elected Jill to be the spokesperson about courtships. 

It is hard (impossible?) to figure what's actually happening. But it seems notable to me that Jill did all this under "Daddy's umbrella of protection." She was the spokesperson for what the parents told them was an utterly unified group that absolutely had to huddle together under that umbrella, without allowing so much as a hair to slip out from under, lest they face every hideous fate that the devils of hell could throw at them. 

I wonder whether Jill felt safe under the umbrella in a way that she's never felt safe since. Most people, including Derick, I expect, aren't egomaniacs to the level of JB, so they're more likely to figure that their spouses, as adults, won't want to huddle under their invisible but invincible umbrella and they're less likely to confidently state that they'll be providing one. And maybe having that feeling taken away really threatened Jill more profoundly than we who've never experienced an all-powerful invisible umbrella can imagine?

As you noted, for example, just the simple fact that Derick would be away at the office for eight to nine hours a day, five days a week, completely freaked Jill out. That seems to me to possibly be a "But where's my umbrella??!!!" type freak out.  And then, after she'd married into a situation without the all-powerful umbrella, a series of unfortunate events did take place. Could Jill have, somewhere in the back of her mind, felt these things were happening because she wasn't under the surefire protection of the dumbdaddybrella any longer? 

And then Jessa -- Well, it's suggested that she was one of the mouthy ones -- even toward the umbrella holder, perhaps -- among the children. So maybe when she found herself relatively umbrellaless, she just discovered that it was fun to be mouth and bossy? After all, she's mainly pushing Bin and her sibs around in the service of JB's and M's aims, so why would they care if she does it? She can be the boss of a lot of people now without pissing off the tyrants because in her current position she's acting more or less as a tyrant stand-in.

Plus, in my opinion, we still don't know whether she'd continue playing the brave bigshot if she got herself into a truly independent or distant-from-the-TTH situation, anyway. As far as I can she, she's never really gone outside the umbrella to anything near the degree that Jill did by going to Danger America. For all we know, Jessa might wilt in such a situation, too. (My bet would be that she would, but I don't think there's any actual evidence on that. She's still as much a total TTH homebody as any married person with her own house could be, as far as I can see. )

Anyway, just a theory. 

[lulu69]

In Silly Jilly's defense, it must be an awfully rude awakening to discover you're stupid. Within the microcosm of the TTH Jill was wise & admired by the littles. Not so much in the real world.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Ain't nobody gonna be hammering nails, working a regular volunteer shift at a food bank, laboring over a steam table to feed the hungry.

Janarella.

[Minivanessa]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Ain't nobody gonna be hammering nails, working a regular volunteer shift at a food bank, laboring over a steam table to feed the hungry.

 

1 hour ago, WhineandCheez said:

Janarella.

I don't think so. She's too busy running the TTH and raising the rest of her young siblings. No time to go do charity work, even if the Duggars believed in it.

[Lunera]

I wrote in the Jessa thread that I suspect that Jill and Derick never had sex during their 8?months in CA and that's why she didn't get pregnant down there. That can really hurt a marriage that is just beginning I mean the whole point of the quickie marriage is to have sex. It may make her feel like she's doing something wrong if he's not initiating sex and we know she she never will. 

[laurakaye]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:50 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

WHO in their right mind lets a baby drink tomato sauce out of a can? Just seems too concentrated and too acidic for his little tummy, not to mention the angry diaper such a food would leave behind. 

Cmon Muffy, open up a can of Campbell's cream of tomato soup, add milk and give your kiddo a grilled cheese sandwich. A slice of REAL cheese between the bread....it's what moms DO! Just about every kid of all ages knows what a treat tomato soup and grilled cheese is! Even those of us who are childless would fix this for a niece or nephew or the neighbors kid...

I waver on my level of sympathy for Jill.  On the one hand, I see post-partum depression silently screaming from my television every time she appears onscreen with her empty eyes and her smile that tries, but fails.  And I know that it's highly likely that any depression on her part will go untreated, and that's sad.  On the other hand, as one of the oldest Duggar kids, how on earth did the very basics of cooking escape her - not to mention any other J-child not named Jana.  Some of the food concoctions I've seen her post are just plain odd.  Either she knows how to cook and clean and can't bring herself to do it, or she honestly doesn't care.  Maybe a part of her soul is just completely shut down and she can't figure out how to bring herself back online, so to speak.  So whatever Izzy wants, she gives him, because she can't figure out how to make it through the day any other way.  

Wanted to add - after my first baby, I lived on frozen pizza (because exhaustion) until I realized that the awful diaper rash on my poor baby's bottom was due to the amount of tomato sauce I was ingesting.  Definitely not something a toddler should be drinking straight from the can.

[lianau]

3 hours ago, ranchgirl said:

 

The Jill that is shown now is meek, timid, unsure of herself, and doesn't want to be left alone.  I remember an episode not long after she was married and she was saying how she wanted Derick to quit his job and stay home with her.  Derick reminded her that he had to make money and then she said something like, "Well, we will talk about it more." 

 

I think Jill works well when she's told what to do but fails when she has to make the decisions . Living at home she was used to do her chores and enforce her parents rules for her buddies , she was doing what her parents /father told her to do . Now she should follow Derick but Derick seems to be lacking it in the headship department leaving Jill with no one to direct her .

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

I waver on my level of sympathy for Jill.  On the one hand, I see post-partum depression silently screaming from my television every time she appears onscreen with her empty eyes and her smile that tries, but fails.  And I know that it's highly likely that any depression on her part will go untreated, and that's sad.  On the other hand, as one of the oldest Duggar kids, how on earth did the very basics of cooking escape her - not to mention any other J-child not named Jana.  Some of the food concoctions I've seen her post are just plain odd.  Either she knows how to cook and clean and can't bring herself to do it, or she honestly doesn't care.  Maybe a part of her soul is just completely shut down and she can't figure out how to bring herself back online, so to speak.  So whatever Izzy wants, she gives him, because she can't figure out how to make it through the day any other way.  

Wanted to add - after my first baby, I lived on frozen pizza (because exhaustion) until I realized that the awful diaper rash on my poor baby's bottom was due to the amount of tomato sauce I was ingesting.  Definitely not something a toddler should be drinking straight from the can.

I can totally understand the italicized portion. Not being able to go to work has been killing my soul on a daily basis.  There are days when I feel so completely shut down that I can barely muster the will to do much of anything, even though I've got PLENTY to do at home right now without holding down a full time job as well, but with no urgency to get it done, it doesn't get done. Because I identify with those feelings, I get that Jill, and to a certain extent, Derick, feel STUCK. I'm twice their age, but I often feel like maybe I still manage to accomplish more than they do on some levels.

I totally agree that Jill is still suffering from PPD, but the likelihood she'll get any real help at all for it is highly unlikely, and in this day and age, that's just sad.

Jill and Derick would really benefit from getting themselves a purpose.  Something they are qualified to do and can with minimal training, right near home...there's plenty of needs within their own community where they could be of service. For as much as Duggars used the word "purpose"...as a noun, verb, infinitive, and adjective...to the point it made me STABBY,ever since the Joshgate scandals, there was no more talk of purpose or ministry; now they all sleep until noon, sit around, take selfies, and grow hair, and with all this free time, they still don't look like they take care of themselves or one another.

I really think Joshgate took away whatever sense of purpose they had. They went from being the family that was interesting because they were different and media darlings, to becoming untouchables in TeeVee land, and even social pariahs among most of their own kind. That had to hurt. It was a mighty fall from grace. They learned what it felt like to be the ones judged instead of judging others. For the robocalls and religious ideology they used to justify their ways, all of that karmically came back to bite them in a big way.

I don't know how I'd be able to show my face had my family been dragged down like that. Though most of the fallout belongs squarely with JB and M and Joshley, it didn't seem fair the victimized sisters and the other kids in the family deserved all of that.  We see that the fallout and the stress from all of that has really come down on the kids younger than the twins, meaning they will have an even more inferior education than the Bigguns, because everyone is checked out and nobody gives a shit anymore.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Arwen Evenstar

[lookeyloo]

5 hours ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

If only Jill and the others realized that living with your parents until you're married isn't the only way. What if some never marry? Yikes. 

You mean as in Jana?

[LilJen]

On 2/11/2017 at 6:39 PM, cmr2014 said:

Being unhappy is one thing -- divorce is another. I would be very surprised if they divorced any time soon. I would imagine that they are receiving a great deal of "counseling" at the TTH. Unfortunately, there is no way that they will get any kind of counseling that will help. First of all, I can't imagine the magnitude of earthquake it would take to convince Jill that her parents are not the "perfect" marriage counselors for them. Second, I would imagine that any counseling would take the form of 99% Jesus and marraige as defined by the Wisdom Booklets and less that 1% of anything that might help in terms of communication, adjusting expectations, etc.

Any problems in the marriage are simply because you didn't pray hard enough. Or long enough. So, hey, pray MORE and that will fix everything.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I can totally understand the italicized portion. Not being able to go to work has been killing my soul on a daily basis.  There are days when I feel so completely shut down that I can barely muster the will to do much of anything, even though I've got PLENTY to do at home right now without holding down a full time job as well, but with no urgency to get it done, it doesn't get done. Because I identify with those feelings, I get that Jill, and to a certain extent, Derick, feel STUCK. I'm twice their age, but I often feel like maybe I still manage to accomplish more than they do on some levels.

 

I've been there before and it sucks. I think Jill and Derick are in the position where neither of them can be happy without making the other person miserable. Derick doesn't want an 8 to 5 and Jill has no desire to spend the next twenty years hacking it in the jungle. So whoever makes the sacrifice is bound to be resentful and angry. I believe Jill was sincere with her initial desire to do missions work, but life in the field has taught her she's not cut out for the gig and that's okay. Unfortunately Derick seems determined to spend the rest of his life doing interpretive dance for Jesus, and I think Jill with a toddler and newborn in Danger America will not end well for anyone. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by BitterApple

[Almost 3000]

2 hours ago, lianau said:

I think Jill works well when she's told what to do but fails when she has to make the decisions . Living at home she was used to do her chores and enforce her parents rules for her buddies , she was doing what her parents /father told her to do . Now she should follow Derick but Derick seems to be lacking it in the headship department leaving Jill with no one to direct her .

Anyone else remember when Michelle used to use the Maxwells' wall chore chart and the cards that hung around the kids necks on a lanyard like employees wear? Jill would probably benefit from those charts and cards. I actually have my own system and it does help get things done.

[lulu69]

6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I've been there before and it sucks. I think Jill and Derick are in the position where neither of them can be happy without making the other person miserable. Derick doesn't want an 8 to 5 and Jill has no desire to spend the next twenty years hacking it in the jungle. So whoever makes the sacrifice is bound to be resentful and angry. I believe Jill was sincere with her initial desire to do missions work, but life in the field has taught her she's not cut out for the gig and that's okay. Unfortunately Derick seems determined to spend the rest of his life doing interpretive dance for Jesus, and I think Jill with a toddler and newborn in Danger America will not end well for anyone. 

The thing is, Jill didn't want Derick to do the 8 to 5 thing either because it meant time away from her. Kinda wonder what Jill does want. Oh wait, that's right, they both want people to donate $ just because.

[lookeyloo]

Jill probably couldn't articulate what she really wants, probably because she herself doesn't really know.  She thought marriage and baby would do it.  Except not.  Maybe Iz isn't the baby she wanted.  She wasn't thrilled with his looks the first time she saw him.  Maybe she never really bonded to him.  Especially with her botched labor and C-section, and perhaps PPD.  And Derick doesn't even look like the same person she married.  I know this happens in other marriages, and some of them fail, but, there are mature individuals who can get past all that.  I am repeating myself, but, my mother was clinically depressed long before it was a thing, but she had all the signs now that we know what they are.  My father used to ask her what's wrong and she would tell him "If I have to tell you, it's no good"  direct quote.  She really didn't know either, because her brain chemistry was wacked.  To quote Jana "so, yeah"

[lianau]

6 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Jill probably couldn't articulate what she really wants, probably because she herself doesn't really know.  She thought marriage and baby would do it. 

Because she has been taught all her life that marriage and babies is her sole purpose and the only way to make herself worthy in the eyes of her community .

[Missy Vixen]

8 hours ago, toodles said:

Do something real and maybe you will find something positive and uplifting to tweet about instead of hellfire and damnation.  

 

And get a freaking referral from an actual primary care physician to a specialist for Triple D. My husband is no rail-thin hipster, but I'm telling you right now that if he dropped 40 pounds in six months or so for no apparent reason and was vomiting during what looked like a short jog, his ass would be in a doctor's office until we found out what was wrong and got the appropriate treatment for it. She's married to a guy whose father died at a young age! Does she want to end up in the same boat?

[Missy Vixen]

21 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but why do we think the marriage is troubled? Was something said, did something happen, are we simply speculating? 

Video doesn't lie. Happy couples don't post the most personal of communications on social media to prove yet again how "happy" they are. Their random and inexplicable decisions over the past three years would cause the most rock-solid marriages incalculable strain.

[DangerousMinds]

19 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

And get a freaking referral from an actual primary care physician to a specialist for Triple D. My husband is no rail-thin hipster, but I'm telling you right now that if he dropped 40 pounds in six months or so for no apparent reason and was vomiting during what looked like a short jog, his ass would be in a doctor's office until we found out what was wrong and got the appropriate treatment for it. She's married to a guy whose father died at a young age! Does she want to end up in the same boat?

If they don't have enough insurance coverage this may not be possible. Sad.

[cmr2014]

22 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but why do we think the marriage is troubled? Was something said, did something happen, are we simply speculating? 

This is just my own opinion, and others have made some good points, but here is what I see:

1. The genuinely LOOK unhappy to me. I don't see any lightness, or joy in their interactions.

2. While Jill hangs on Derick quite a bit, they don't touch each other in a natural, spontaneous way that I would expect in a young couple.

3. Jill has posted several "my husband is a wonderful God-fearing Christian, and I am lucky to have him" posts. These are textbook, straight from the Wisdom booklets, Gothard "marriage counseling" comments.

4. Jill doesn't like what Derick does, and it seems to me that she 100% expects him to change for her. She didn't like him working 9-5, she didn't like being in Danger America, but she likes living in the TTH. Remember, she is from a perfect family and her parents' marriage is a model for all others.

5. It is nothing other than the expression on Derick's "countenance" that makes me think he is unhappy at the TTH and would absolutely prefer to be anywhere else . . .

[Missy Vixen]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

If they don't have enough insurance coverage this may not be possible. Sad.

Maybe they should spend some of the money they got from their People magazine "exclusives", then. There's no excuse.

[Caracoa1]

Boob probably doesn't alott then enough money on a monthly basis to afford Insurance.

[laurakaye]

17 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I really think Joshgate took away whatever sense of purpose they had. They went from being the family that was interesting because they were different and media darlings, to becoming untouchables in TeeVee land, and even social pariahs among most of their own kind. That had to hurt. It was a mighty fall from grace. They learned what it felt like to be the ones judged instead of judging others. For the robocalls and religious ideology they used to justify their ways, all of that karmically came back to bite them in a big way.

Do you think that, behind the scenes, Jill was miserable and panicked at the thought of having to do the post-Joshgate interview with Jessa, and that JB, Michelle, and perhaps even Derick insisted that she go on tv and talk about what her brother did to her because MONEY and RATINGS?  Given how tearful Jill was - and, in contrast, how stoic Jessa was - maybe Jill just did not posses the stamina to discuss something so personal and devastating...but once Jessa was on board, Jill knew she had to go along as well.  And then there it was, their terrible secrets broadcast on television, and everyone knows.

So thinking along those lines, I could see where it would actually be easier for Jill to emotionally check out, rather than have to wake up every morning and face the facts that she is uneducated, married to a stranger, with a toddler she can't handle and another on the way, a brother who did awful things to her, parents who don't care, Josh still roaming around the compound, nothing to look forward to, and the possibility that she's going to have to once again head for Central America.  I almost want her to have a nervous breakdown...not because I wish ill will on her, but because perhaps it just might force someone in that stupid family to see that something is very wrong and get her some actual help.

 

13 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

Video doesn't lie. Happy couples don't post the most personal of communications on social media to prove yet again how "happy" they are. Their random and inexplicable decisions over the past three years would cause the most rock-solid marriages incalculable strain.

I am always suspect of couples who post all the "oh look how happy and in love we are!" photos on social media.  If you have to post it, is it real?

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Jill and Derick would really benefit from getting themselves a purpose.

Arwen Evenstar, excellent analysis.  They always say that "work expands to fill the time available."  You don't have to work--wow that should mean you get lots accomplished.  But it doesn't always pan out that way.  ask a busy person if you want something done (these are all slogans but boy are they true)  I just don't understand missionairies that are in foreign countries converting people and not building schools, wells, etc. Also there is A LOT to be done here in the US.

[Churchhoney]

17 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 

She didn't like him working 9-5, she didn't like being in Danger America, but she likes living in the TTH. 

Wow, that's sure true. And put like that, it really highlights their apparent lack of options .... 

[Farmfam]

Without getting political here...I always assumed the Duggars, and most Fundies would have health insurance through the CHM.  We switched to it after the ACA became unaffordable for our family, and so far have been happy. It's a lot of paperwork though, which may not be easy for the uneducated! 

[RazzleberryPie]

19 hours ago, lulu69 said:

The thing is, Jill didn't want Derick to do the 8 to 5 thing either because it meant time away from her. Kinda wonder what Jill does want. Oh wait, that's right, they both want people to donate $ just because.

I totally agree that Jill doesn't know what she does want. She had a mental picture in her head of a happy missionary family who has 900 babies and spends all day leading heathens to Christ, but she clearly was not equipped to detach her barnacle from the TTH ship, nor face the rejection from people who think she's an overzealous idiot and are content with their current brand of Christianity.

Jill is a Dumb Ass. She's stupid. By choice. I don't think she has special needs or is lower than average IQ. She's lived in a bubble, and reinforced it with concrete by picking and choosing what she sees and what she learns.

Jill was so hyperfocused on "godly marriage," "missionary" and "midwife", that she has never put 2 + 2 together to realize that normal people of all faiths, everywhere in the world, have occupations. Jobs. This is how 99.9% of us get money. Money is needed to pay for food, clothing, shelter, etc. Money does not materialize out of thin air. I honestly don't think she realized Derrick would need a job that requires some work. 

JimBob did have a lot of hustles up until TLC came along. He wasn't digging ditches, but he was putting forth effort to generate income. By the time TLC came along, most of his rental investments, etc., were generating income while allowing him a really flexible schedule and a lot of stay at home time. Then with TLC, that became his primary job, and required him to be at home. Combine that with the Gothard "work for no man, but yourself" demand, and Michelle having daughters old enough to dump her kids on while she gestates for a TV crew.

Jill is too much of a Dumb Ass to open her eyes and see that her own parents didn't start out this clingy. When JimBob owned car lots and sold real estate or whatever, Michelle went with him and WORKED. When Anna followed Josh to the car lot JimBob set up, she WORKED. They were together, because they were WORKING. 

Jill likes the idea of things, but not actually executing them. She'd rather spend time sharpening pencils, arranging books, color coding note cards, etc., than actually learning and retaining information. She also seems to be one of those Dumb Asses who gravitates toward unfounded "facts" that already agree with what she wants to hear, vs. the truth (insert the classic 2/3 of families have instances of sibling molestation 'fact'). 

Jessa is a vain, insecure bully, Jana is a coward, Jinger has no spine, and Joy is special needs/heavily medicated, but Jill is a Dumb Ass. Out of all of the adult Duggar girls, Jill is the one I want to grab by the shoulders and shake some sense into. 

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

 

Jessa is a vain, insecure bully, Jana is a coward, Jinger has no spine, and Joy is special needs/heavily medicated, but Jill is a Dumb Ass. 

Yeah, that's about the size of it. 

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, that's about the size of it. 

At least Jana isn't a clinger.

[Churchhoney]

31 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

At least Jana isn't a clinger.

lol

I know we aren't really to blame for how our kids turn out, but it kind of makes you wonder how good a role model the multiple Mother-of-the-Year winner is. Cause actually, if you put together all those descriptions of the girls, it sorta adds up to a perfect description of Meeechelle. "Vain insecure bullying cowardly spineless special-needs heavily medicated dumb-ass" -- Meeechelle.   Check. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Churchhoney

[RazzleberryPie]

33 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

lol

I know we aren't really to blame for how our kids turn out, but it kind of makes you wonder how good a role model the multiple Mother-of-the-Year winner is. Cause actually, if you put together all those descriptions of the girls, it sorta adds up to a perfect description of Meeechelle. "Vain insecure bullying cowardly spineless special-needs heavily medicated dumb-ass" -- Meeechelle.   Check. 

It's like they're her very own Horcruces. Possum hair is the final Horcrux.

[Churchhoney]

21 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

It's like they're her very own Horcruces. Possum hair is the final Horcrux.

"Possum Hair Is The Final Horcrux."   Now there's the book I want a Duggar daughter to write. 

[Marigold]

I think Jill and Dill are pretty happy together.  

But I also think they are both going through some bad shit...we have listed all of Derick's troubles and Jill just looks depressed. 

[MamaMax]

If Jill doesn't feel fulfilled by motherhood and home duties, I am sure she feels super guilty about it.

Jill was always the good one and I'm sure she expected that marriage and blessings would mean instant happiness. Now Jessa's got a leg up, since she was unruly, but is finding that marriage and motherhood agrees with her. I am sure she's capitalizing on that and has moved up in Boob and Michelle's rankings.

Also, I suspect that the young wives "worked" with the hubbies partly for free labor (which WalMart doesn't need) and partially for accountability. Not going to be fooling around with your side piece when the wife could walk into the office any minute.

Jill is a lost soul, because the bill of goods she was sold is not what she expected, but she is so indoctrinated that she will never say so. 

[RazzleberryPie]

2 hours ago, MamaMax said:

If Jill doesn't feel fulfilled by motherhood and home duties, I am sure she feels super guilty about it.

Jill was always the good one and I'm sure she expected that marriage and blessings would mean instant happiness. Now Jessa's got a leg up, since she was unruly, but is finding that marriage and motherhood agrees with her. I am sure she's capitalizing on that and has moved up in Boob and Michelle's rankings.

Also, I suspect that the young wives "worked" with the hubbies partly for free labor (which WalMart doesn't need) and partially for accountability. Not going to be fooling around with your side piece when the wife could walk into the office any minute.

Jill is a lost soul, because the bill of goods she was sold is not what she expected, but she is so indoctrinated that she will never say so. 

This is also how I feel about Jana. She was told if she was good, followed the rules, loved Jesus, stayed obedient, etc., the Lord would send her a good Christian husband. God would ordain it, her Daddy would facilitate it. Instead, she's been indoctrinated into having no interests or life for herself, and has raised her siblings, and the more unruly and troublesome they were, the faster they were rewarded with a spouse and a house. But like Jill, she's so indoctrinated, she will never speak up and say THIS ISN'T FAIR AND NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR. She's held her end of the bargain, while Jimbob and Michelle, and then the rest of her siblings who let her slave while they do whatever, haven't either. I like Jana, but I think she's a coward.

Edited February 15, 2017 by RazzleberryPie

[Christina87]

4 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I totally agree that Jill doesn't know what she does want. She had a mental picture in her head of a happy missionary family who has 900 babies and spends all day leading heathens to Christ, but she clearly was not equipped to detach her barnacle from the TTH ship, nor face the rejection from people who think she's an overzealous idiot and are content with their current brand of Christianity.

Jill is a Dumb Ass. She's stupid. By choice. I don't think she has special needs or is lower than average IQ. She's lived in a bubble, and reinforced it with concrete by picking and choosing what she sees and what she learns.

Jill was so hyperfocused on "godly marriage," "missionary" and "midwife", that she has never put 2 + 2 together to realize that normal people of all faiths, everywhere in the world, have occupations. Jobs. This is how 99.9% of us get money. Money is needed to pay for food, clothing, shelter, etc. Money does not materialize out of thin air. I honestly don't think she realized Derrick would need a job that requires some work. 

JimBob did have a lot of hustles up until TLC came along. He wasn't digging ditches, but he was putting forth effort to generate income. By the time TLC came along, most of his rental investments, etc., were generating income while allowing him a really flexible schedule and a lot of stay at home time. Then with TLC, that became his primary job, and required him to be at home. Combine that with the Gothard "work for no man, but yourself" demand, and Michelle having daughters old enough to dump her kids on while she gestates for a TV crew.

Jill is too much of a Dumb Ass to open her eyes and see that her own parents didn't start out this clingy. When JimBob owned car lots and sold real estate or whatever, Michelle went with him and WORKED. When Anna followed Josh to the car lot JimBob set up, she WORKED. They were together, because they were WORKING. 

Jill likes the idea of things, but not actually executing them. She'd rather spend time sharpening pencils, arranging books, color coding note cards, etc., than actually learning and retaining information. She also seems to be one of those Dumb Asses who gravitates toward unfounded "facts" that already agree with what she wants to hear, vs. the truth (insert the classic 2/3 of families have instances of sibling molestation 'fact'). 

Jessa is a vain, insecure bully, Jana is a coward, Jinger has no spine, and Joy is special needs/heavily medicated, but Jill is a Dumb Ass. Out of all of the adult Duggar girls, Jill is the one I want to grab by the shoulders and shake some sense into. 

Love the last paragraph!!! Jill has always bothered me the most too. Besides her holier-than-thou personality (which I could write 10 pages on), what I fundamentally don't like about her is that she seems extremely selfish. She thinks just because she is such a "good girl," and also weak, she deserves absolutely everything handed to her. If Derick wants to work, she clings and whines. No thank you for supporting the family. If Derick wants to go to CA, she gets all passive aggressive but won't speak up for herself. She must have 74947294 babies because Jesus, and who cares what Derick has to do to support that? She feels slightly tired, so her siblings have to come clean. She moves back home, so Jana has to decorate a house.

Now, it would be very different if she was tripping over herself thanking all these people and making sure they felt appreciated. That is not in Jill's vocabulary, though. She is special and weak, a sure fire victim-making combination. 

Jessa does see, to appreciate what has been handed to her, and arguably works the hardest for the reality teevee money they still have. Jana is the opposite of selfish, and Jinger seems to feel for others on a deep level, and is always willing to help when asked. Poor joy just doesn't have any intelligence to work with, but I've never really gotten a taker vibe from her either. 

But...everybody owes Jill everything because she is perfect...she's just...Jill!

Edited February 14, 2017 by Christina87

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Christina87 said:

Now, it would be very different if she was tripping over herself thanking all these people and making sure they felt appreciated. That is not in Jill's vocabulary, though. She is special and weak, a sure fire victim-making combination. 

But she DOESN'T! It's all about what everyone is going to do for special weak reed, Jill.  She just can't cope, so everyone else is supposed to purpose to help her, do her thinking for her, and make decisions for her. 

She's a sad limpet, and she's like a fart trapped in a colander-she can't decide even decide which hole to fly out!

[GeeGolly]

I think all the Duggar girls feel entitled, including Jill. I believe Jill would speak up and say something if she wasn't handed a house and a car. I'm not a Bible reader but I'm guessing the word humble appears in it more often than entitled.

[Arwen Evenstar]

55 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think all the Duggar girls feel entitled, including Jill. I believe Jill would speak up and say something if she wasn't handed a house and a car. I'm not a Bible reader but I'm guessing the word humble appears in it more often than entitled.

You wouldn't have to necessarily be a Bible reader to have guessed that correctly.

[Christina87]

I think they are all entitled too, but especially Jill. The others' entitlements I mainly see as a result of their upbringing (i.e. mommy and daddy did this for everyone else, so they will do it for me too). Jill does seem the worst, though. I was pleasantly surprised when Jinger acted truly appreciative that her parents bought her that table as a wedding present. When you think of Jill's McMansion (plus newly flipped guest house after DA) and Jessa's fully renovated house, Jinger's table seems a small offering, but she was happy with it. Jill just acts like everything is owed to her without having to work, just because she is the golden child. Argh! She aggravates me. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Christina87

[RazzleberryPie]

The worst part of Jill's entitlement, is she truly thinks it's ok for her to live off of donations and 'support' from others, simply because she decided she wants to be a *fake* missionary. People should be lining up to hand over their hard earned money so she can hand out suckers and condemn non-fundie Christians in CA. 

[AnnieBeez]

Why don't they ALL deserve houses and vehicles?! They're the ones bringing the TLC money in. No one (I don't think, at least) is tuning in for JimBob and Michelle. Filming this show provides income. Why shouldn't they benefit from it? 

[Arwen Evenstar]

37 minutes ago, MischaMouse said:

Why don't they ALL deserve houses and vehicles?! They're the ones bringing the TLC money in. No one (I don't think, at least) is tuning in for JimBob and Michelle. Filming this show provides income. Why shouldn't they benefit from it? 

None of us disagree that they earned it after years of forced slave labor and their rightful share of the show proceeds and book royalties.

We're snarking on Jill always getting the best house because she's the favorite.

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, MischaMouse said:

Why don't they ALL deserve houses and vehicles?! They're the ones bringing the TLC money in. No one (I don't think, at least) is tuning in for JimBob and Michelle. Filming this show provides income. Why shouldn't they benefit from it? 

I agree they deserve their fair share of the TLC income but I doubt the earnings over the last ten years, divided by 21+ people would equal 19 homes and 19 cars. I would add that they all benefited from the show because before TLC came along they were crammed into a tiny home and were living off church donations and their only vacations were going to the homeschool convention each year. TLC helped them build the TTH and has provided multiple vacations, cell phones, lap tops and other perks the Duggars would likely never have had.

[AnnieBeez]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree they deserve their fair share of the TLC income but I doubt the earnings over the last ten years, divided by 21+ people would equal 19 homes and 19 cars. I would add that they all benefited from the show because before TLC came along they were crammed into a tiny home and were living off church donations and their only vacations were going to the homeschool convention each year. TLC helped them build the TTH and has provided multiple vacations, cell phones, lap tops and other perks the Duggars would likely never have had.

I'm talking about now. It seems pretty obvious that taping the show IS their job. We don't see much else going on. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 minutes ago, MischaMouse said:

I'm talking about now. It seems pretty obvious that taping the show IS their job. We don't see much else going on. 

Bbbbbbbut....we sit around growing hair! And we "minister" to others by posting Bible verses and hateful screeds that make people question our mental stability...and we are soliciting donations for our ministry...DONATE

[sometimesy]

She is a complete dunce and has no positions on most things, but there are things Jill wants: she wants to be in the TTH with her sister servants and all the praise of being the elevated-married-breeder-favourite daughter, she wants a husband that doesn't leave her side and donations for the occasional jaunt into mission work. She is passively manipulating Derick.