Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Missy Vixen]

10 hours ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, but you have to understand, none of the outside interaction, or any action really, comes without being larded with the knee-jerk recitation of Bible verses and buzzwords.  'Cuz constantly reminding everyone else that you're Christian, is the only holy way to conduct yourselves.  I think you'd be surprised by the pervasiveness of this mindset if you spent an hour or two standing in their midst (if you have had this exposure and I am just glossing over this knowledge, forgive me!).  To some extent it may be circular, where some of the Christians spend time mouthing the platitudes to each other solely because they're afraid that not using the right constant buzzwords results in scoldings.  I've heard, no lie, conversations where one Christian scolded another for saying "luck" or "good fortune", cuz Jesus.  No such thing as either, because "every good thing comes from God, and by prayer and fasting", this is a loose translation but not by much, "there is no such thing as luck", thus you should strike the word from your vocabulary.  I'm exaggerating this but only at about 10%.  

 

I can vouch for queenanne's comments because I spent a lot of years dealing with the above. I attended a church in which our youth pastor bragged that his young son had never been inside a movie theater and God willing, he never would be. I wasn't kidding when I posted that I've been in a car with someone who prayed aloud for a "good parking spot" in any store's parking lot, or someone who says she'd like a new dress and she'd better "pray about it". I have been one of those scolded for using the word "luck" in a conversation with the superfundies I knew. Any chance to "witness to the lost" through one's overheard conversation or any chance to one-up another Christian for a perceived lack of faith is never ignored. 

These people have NOTHING ELSE to talk about. Again: They don't read anything but the Bible. They're not keeping up with current events, binge-watching secular TV, participating in sports, or doing anything that any of the rest of us might have interest in. Every day is a new opportunity for a "sword drill". (Using the Bible as a way to smack down unbelievers and brag about your spiritual knowledge...) After all, the Lord will surely bless those who ignore the commands against pride, etcetera. He wasn't serious about that humility stuff, was he?

I can't imagine how boring and unfulfilling a convo with any of the Duggars might be, but I'd rather have a root canal sans Novocain than five minutes in a room with the vapid Jilly Muffin and the lazy, grifting Triple D. He'd be trying so hard to save my soul, and I'd be asking him questions and quoting Bible verses that would have him crying within 90 seconds.  

[Missy Vixen]

7 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

That was me I had 24/7 morning sickness all 9 months I lost 40 lbs and he still came out 8 1 1/2 and I had a 2 year old to take care of. It was hell but I  did it. Also with this pregnancy I had double penoumiona. 

 

Both of my sisters had hyperemesis. The kind that Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge has suffered with. Guess who doesn't have kids?

I really didn't want to be a parent, but the thought of barfing for 9 months was enough for me. As a result, all you mamas out there who just kept going and taking care of your families are my heroes.

[GeeGolly]

From a religiously naive person (me), praying for a parking spot or a piece of clothing feels shallow and selfish. I think I would want to use my praying powers for things like homelessness, diseases, poverty, climate change, hate, etc and I don't know maybe even world peace.

No disrespect for any praying folk on here. I honestly have a hard time wrapping my brain all this.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, Missy Vixen said:

Both of my sisters had hyperemesis. The kind that Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge has suffered with. Guess who doesn't have kids?

I really didn't want to be a parent, but the thought of barfing for 9 months was enough for me. As a result, all you mamas out there who just kept going and taking care of your families are my heroes.

I agree. I also chose not to be a parent of a humanoid child. (Westie mommy here!) In the rare times I have the flu and I have to barf ... I am not happy, Husband is not happy ... not good times. If I were to be pregnant and subject to morning sickness ... um, it would not be pretty. Just sayin'.

I applaud those of you who have gone through morning sickness and giving birth.

[Absolom]

Every time I hear or read about people praying over parking places,  phone covers, clothes, etc., I'm reminded of a homily when I was a teen about not praying to receive trivia.  It was also called avoiding selfish praying or bugging God over things a person should use their God given brain to handle or decide. 

[EVS]

39 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Every time I hear or read about people praying over parking places,  phone covers, clothes, etc., I'm reminded of a homily when I was a teen about not praying to receive trivia.  It was also called avoiding selfish praying or bugging God over things a person should use their God given brain to handle or decide. 

I can't remember where I first heard the expression, but I still refer to those people as "God-botherers". 

Edited January 5, 2017 by EVS

[ariel]

1 hour ago, Westiepeach said:

 

I applaud those of you who have gone through morning sickness and giving birth.

And worked a full time job or didn't, but carried on without the help of a slew of sister slaves.

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, EVS said:

I can't remember where I first heard the expression, but I still refer to those people as "God-botherers". 

I've heard God botherers as the people who are constant proselytizers preaching on the street or going door to door.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Absolom

[queenanne]

13 hours ago, lascuba said:

I wonder about this way too often. How many of them actually think the way they speak? I don't mean the sincerity of their beliefs in general (while I'm sure there are a fair number of closeted non-believers, when it comes to individuals I tend to take them at their word), but the way talk to each other and to outsiders--the bible verses, the platitudes, the talking points. Are those the thoughts that occupy their minds? Even when I technically considered myself Catholic, I never really, deep in my soul, believed much of it--both because my family isn't religious anyway and because I sometimes think there must be a "faith" gene that I lack. So I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that fundie though-processes really are that simple...that they go about their days thinking like they speak at all times, or mentally slapping themselves when an errant thought enters their head.

I agree with a prevailing theory that part of it is peer pressure indeed - a reminder that if so-and-so is dragging God into the conversation left and right, you will look weird and wrong if you never sprinkle any homilies into your own conversation.  Plus, often they don't care if they're consistent, as long as they're consistently knee-jerking that everything's got a reason.  I've seen evangelicals attribute things to "free will" in one moment and very similar things to "predestination or foreordainment", scant weeks later.

3 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

I can vouch for queenanne's comments because I spent a lot of years dealing with the above. I attended a church in which our youth pastor bragged that his young son had never been inside a movie theater and God willing, he never would be. I wasn't kidding when I posted that I've been in a car with someone who prayed aloud for a "good parking spot" in any store's parking lot, or someone who says she'd like a new dress and she'd better "pray about it". I have been one of those scolded for using the word "luck" in a conversation with the superfundies I knew. Any chance to "witness to the lost" through one's overheard conversation or any chance to one-up another Christian for a perceived lack of faith is never ignored. 

These people have NOTHING ELSE to talk about. Again: They don't read anything but the Bible. They're not keeping up with current events, binge-watching secular TV, participating in sports, or doing anything that any of the rest of us might have interest in. Every day is a new opportunity for a "sword drill". (Using the Bible as a way to smack down unbelievers and brag about your spiritual knowledge...) After all, the Lord will surely bless those who ignore the commands against pride, etcetera. He wasn't serious about that humility stuff, was he?

Ha, thanks for the new term!  (It, er, might be worthwhile, if they were actually able to "sword drill" Bible verses left and right like Socrates for every situation.  Often they don't answer the situation, but simply offer surface facility.  I'd give volumes to have someone give a good real explanation of the "Jesus/the Aramaic/Hebrew people of yore drank grape juice", when alcohol has been a known preservative for IDK how many centuries.  It just would never occur to them, I guess.  Everyone knows what they mean is, "People under the control of this lecture of mine shouldn't Get Ideas about drinking alcohol.")

I can imagine praying about a new dress if you were broke, needed it for a wedding or funeral, and couldn't imagine where it was coming from.  Otherwise, not so much.  God has no color or style preference that I know of and certainly would think that those choosing them allegedly under his umbrella, would know if a hem was too short.  In fact I suppose if we were thinking technically, we'd suspect God of being literally color-blind, lol.

Edited January 5, 2017 by queenanne

[crazycatlady58]

Queenanne, I used to go to a sorta fundy church  and ask that question .  I was told  it was just  a mistranslation, that it truly  was grape juice. Yes I know that does not answer  the question  but that was always  the response .  They never could tell me why the Bible  never says not to drink  alcohol  just do not get drunk , and their stand on not  drinking. Oh well, they were all in all, a loving church I just nodded  and smiled a lot.

[Missy Vixen]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

From a religiously naive person (me), praying for a parking spot or a piece of clothing feels shallow and selfish. I think I would want to use my praying powers for things like homelessness, diseases, poverty, climate change, hate, etc and I don't know maybe even world peace.

 

 

Shorter Fundie: If those people had Jesus, they wouldn't have all those problems. They only have themselves to blame. Let's pray about the important stuff, like God's blessing on the Duggar family's ministry!

30 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Ha, thanks for the new term!  (It, er, might be worthwhile, if they were actually able to "sword drill" Bible verses left and right like Socrates for every situation.  Often they don't answer the situation, but simply offer surface facility.  

 

They actually compete with other church youth groups on their knowledge of Bible verses, which the "sword drill" name came from. I call it "Bible Bingo" as well. ;-) Mostly, it's ridiculous. They're not doing it as a blessing. It's all about bragging.

[Missy Vixen]

So, here's a question: Does anyone think that Jilly Muffin showed up at the family Christmas celebration with a bow around her waist and the tag she wore when she was PG with Izzy?

[Arwen Evenstar]

23 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

So, here's a question: Does anyone think that Jilly Muffin showed up at the family Christmas celebration with a bow around her waist and the tag she wore when she was PG with Izzy?

Maybe, and I'm sure she tried to make Tabitha's engagement all about her, in the fashion of MeChelle.

[JoanArc]

7 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

So, here's a question: Does anyone think that Jilly Muffin showed up at the family Christmas celebration with a bow around her waist and the tag she wore when she was PG with Izzy?

Maybe this year she carried around a literal 'Get out of Central Anerica' card in her purse.

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

Shorter Fundie: If those people had Jesus, they wouldn't have all those problems. They only have themselves to blame. Let's pray about the important stuff, like God's blessing on the Duggar family's ministry!

So I took a quick inventory in my head of folks I know, people on this board and of course the Duggars. It appears to me the few to no one has got this religion/Jesus thing down correctly/absolutely/consistently. It seems to me that no one is immune to illness, family issues, traumas, job losses and such. And things like homelessness, poverty, climate change and hate affect everyone indirectly if not directly.

Jill & Derick obviously are having issues in this area; death, cancer, surgeries, illness, shower caddies, employment, etc.

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Maybe, and I'm sure she tried to make Tabitha's engagement all about her, in the fashion of MeChelle.

As did Jessa, no doubt.

[Sew Sumi]

I dunno, Jessa looked pretty frumpy and not very happy. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

54 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I dunno, Jessa looked pretty frumpy and not very happy. 

Jessa is heavily pregnant now, so she's probably very uncomfortable, and she's probably not pleased that the favorite Jilly Muffin got a cadre of J-slaves because she can't cope.

[lascuba]

10 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Queenanne, I used to go to a sorta fundy church  and ask that question .  I was told  it was just  a mistranslation, that it truly  was grape juice. Yes I know that does not answer  the question  but that was always  the response .  They never could tell me why the Bible  never says not to drink  alcohol  just do not get drunk , and their stand on not  drinking. Oh well, they were all in all, a loving church I just nodded  and smiled a lot.

This is equal parts hilarious and infuriating to me because the entire modern Bible is one giant mistranslation from the original language in which it was written but they take the most egregiously mistranslated parts literally.

3 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Jessa is heavily pregnant now, so she's probably very uncomfortable, and she's probably not pleased that the favorite Jilly Muffin got a cadre of J-slaves because she can't cope.

I've always thought that only the kids Joy and younger liked Jill. I think Jessa and Jill might have grown closer because they had marriage and babies in common, but generally, until Jill left that house and they could all finally breathe a tiny bit, she was the sibling they generically loved but couldn't stand. And on top of that, Jessa doesn't suffer fools well (imagine how annoyed she must be with Ben everyday. IMAGINE!), so Jill's weakness and cry-baby antics must have Jessa seething and rolling her eyes on a regular basis.

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

From a religiously naive person (me), praying for a parking spot or a piece of clothing feels shallow and selfish. I think I would want to use my praying powers for things like homelessness, diseases, poverty, climate change, hate, etc and I don't know maybe even world peace.

No disrespect for any praying folk on here. I honestly have a hard time wrapping my brain all this.

Well, I'm not gonna generalize. But the ones I know? -- They pretty much never use their praying powers for this kind of stuff.

Make of that what you will.

[Arwen Evenstar]

20 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I've always thought that only the kids Joy and younger liked Jill. I think Jessa and Jill might have grown closer because they had marriage and babies in common, but generally, until Jill left that house and they could all finally breathe a tiny bit, she was the sibling they generically loved but couldn't stand. And on top of that, Jessa doesn't suffer fools well (imagine how annoyed she must be with Ben everyday. IMAGINE!), so Jill's weakness and cry-baby antics must have Jessa seething and rolling her eyes on a regular basis.

So much this! The older Duggar kids have mentioned or at least implied that Jill was the family snitch and "daddy's pet".  As one of my former coworkers once said about another coworker who was truly horrid.."As a Christian, I have to love him, but as a human I can't stand him".  Or the classic familial line: I love him/her; I just don't like them very much right now. Since real, raw emotions have always been suppressed and repressed even in the face of obvious favoritism (Jill)  and forced forgiveness (Josh), one can only imagine what a seething hotbed of resentment that family really is.

Why do lazy, inept wannabe missionaries Muffy and Scruffy get "the good house" before they left and "the other good house " when they returned?  Jill gets to sit around like milk veal to incubate her spawn, while very pregnant Jessa has "to get on with it".

[Lemur]

3 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

So much this! The older Duggar kids have mentioned or at least implied that Jill was the family snitch and "daddy's pet".  As one of my former coworkers once said about another coworker who was truly horrid.."As a Christian, I have to love him, but as a human I can't stand him".  Or the classic familial line: I love him/her; I just don't like them very much right now. Since real, raw emotions have always been suppressed and repressed even in the face of obvious favoritism (Jill)  and forced forgiveness (Josh), one can only imagine what a seething hotbed of resentment that family really is.

Why do lazy, inept wannabe missionaries Muffy and Scruffy get "the good house" before they left and "the other good house " when they returned?  Jill gets to sit around like milk veal to incubate her spawn, while very pregnant Jessa has "to get on with it".

Purely speculative on my part, but I bet it has something to do with how JB ranks his sons-in-law.  

[DangerousMinds]

I don't buy that Jessa is all that much smarter than any of the other kids.

[Lemur]

5 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don't buy that Jessa is all that much smarter than any of the other kids.

Smarter?  No.  Cleverer?  Yes.  And more vindictive.

[Totally]

I don't believe Jessa is missing out in the 'help' department. I'd be surprised if she is doing her own cleaning, laundry or cooking. 

[lascuba]

6 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don't buy that Jessa is all that much smarter than any of the other kids.

Whether smarter or not, I think she's much more...pragmatic? No nonsense? Resilient? Which I--maybe unfairly--think of as smart traits. She's certainly not smart intellectually, but she would have never been so stressed out in Danger America that she would spend months crying over a fallen shower rack. And in the off-chance that she would have, she would have never been so stupid and socially unaware that she would have brought it up as an example of the danger she was in on national tv.

[Arwen Evenstar]

16 minutes ago, Lemur said:

Purely speculative on my part, but I bet it has something to do with how JB ranks his sons-in-law.  

Interesting perspective.  Makes me curious now as to how they're ranked.  The lazier, more dependent, and more grifty they are, the more he can control them?

[riverblue22]

If Derick isn't returning to Danger America, why doesn't he get a better paying job than Sams or substitute teaching?  Tax season is upon us, and I'm sure temporary accounting help would be welcome somewhere.

[Lemur]

1 minute ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Interesting perspective.  Makes me curious now as to how they're ranked.  The lazier, more dependent, and more grifty they are, the more he can control them?

I think you're putting my thought into it than JB ever did.  Derick is his fave - he got to go to a big name college and is still an uberChristian.  He's also married to his favorite daughter and insinuated himself into JB's life by asking him to be his prayer buddy or whatever.  It's why Derick gets away with the man bun.  Ben is the child husband he married his problem daughter off to, the daughter who challenged his authority most directly.  Jeremy is the alpha dog who has the ability to unseat him as head of the family.  He's college educated, has his own ministry, is more polished (which, admittedly, ain't saying much) and comes from the land of dirty liberals and is still an uberChristian.  The kid Joy is arranged to be married to falls more on the side of Derick - traditional Gothard ties, traditional Gothard lifestyle, plus he'll hook them up with free weekends at Camp Christ.

[Minivanessa]

I think Derick was only a substitute teacher for one day, to cover teachers who attended a funeral. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Jeeves

[Sew Sumi]

12 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

If Derick isn't returning to Danger America, why doesn't he get a better paying job than Sams or substitute teaching?  Tax season is upon us, and I'm sure temporary accounting help would be welcome somewhere.

Uhm, this is Derick we're talking about. Common sense doesn't seem to be a concept he has ever grasped. 

[Ljohnson1987]

Poor Jill. We really empathize that you have all day sickness and have another child to care for. Welcome to the real world, sweetie. Try doing that, and having a full time job.  If you can't handle the all day sickness, maybe popping out a bunch of kids isn't for you. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

I feel empathy for Jill because I had trouble with female issues most of my reproductive life and vile migraines. I know it doesn't feel good, Jill, but I had a full time job in a male dominated profession that didn't until recently have much empathy for "female troubles". She's a SAHM, who also has a mostly SAH husband and several family members within reach, as well as a MIL who positively dotes on her precious grandson.

Until I met Mr E, my nearest kin was 3 hours away from me. She's got a support system. I wish she'd get herself a hobby or Gothard approved business venture rather than whimpering by the door like a dog whose master stepped out to get the mail.  She doesn't know how to be alone, because she was never allowed to be, ever.  She could have some PTSD from Joshgate as well as PPD that never got addressed. Jessa is miraculously well adjusted in comparison to Jill, though I feel she's the exception, rather than the rule.

[BradandJanet]

Is Derick a CPA? I think that license would be necessary to do people's taxes. I'm wondering exactly what kind of work he did at Walmart. I suppose it doesn't matter. He seems to have no plans to do whatever it was again anyway.

[DangerousMinds]

Places like H&R Block also hire people to assist others with taxes during the busy season. They offer their own training, no degree needed. I'm sure the pay isn't great but it's better than being unemployed.

[Oldernowiser]

I really doubt he's a CPA, as that certification is no cakewalk. In addition to exams it requires (in my state) a two-year apprenticeship with a practicing CPA. That's roughly 23 months longer than Manbun's attention span.

[Sew Sumi]

I am almost certain that he never attained a CPA, just an undergrad degree in accounting. I have a friend in grad school for accounting, after an undergrad in English. It's no joke, and English majors tend to be late bloomers. 

This doesn't explain Triple D's affliction. I'm thinking along the lines of sloth.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Rabbittron]

I looked for a cpa license for him and he is not listed as having one.

[RazzleberryPie]

15 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Queenanne, I used to go to a sorta fundy church  and ask that question .  I was told  it was just  a mistranslation, that it truly  was grape juice. Yes I know that does not answer  the question  but that was always  the response .  They never could tell me why the Bible  never says not to drink  alcohol  just do not get drunk , and their stand on not  drinking. Oh well, they were all in all, a loving church I just nodded  and smiled a lot.

So...if that was mistranslated, what else was mistranslated? God's word is perfect and without error, no? (I don't think it was a mistranslation. Jesus made wine.)

[laurakaye]

5 hours ago, lascuba said:

Whether smarter or not, I think she's much more...pragmatic? No nonsense? Resilient? Which I--maybe unfairly--think of as smart traits. She's certainly not smart intellectually, but she would have never been so stressed out in Danger America that she would spend months crying over a fallen shower rack. And in the off-chance that she would have, she would have never been so stupid and socially unaware that she would have brought it up as an example of the danger she was in on national tv.

And yet, one wonders if Jessa would go to Cintral America in the first place.  I'm guessing that even if Bin did feel a calling to go, Jessa would promptly find him another calling.

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

So...if that was mistranslated, what else was mistranslated? God's word is perfect and without error, no? (I don't think it was a mistranslation. Jesus made wine.)

Yeah, I never got the Fundy argument about grape juice or they drank wine because water wasn't safe to drink. Once they realized my arguments showed I was not convinced, they admitted this was a standard they had set for themselves. I don't have a problem with that in principle, but why not just say so at the get go? 

Vineyards and olive groves were cultivated for olive oil and wine well before the time of Christ. Ancient civilizations long learned about fermentation by using stomachs of animals to carry milk, and the rennet as well as the shaking on horseback or camel or donkey or of curdled the proteins in the milk..they were hungry ate it anyway and pronounced it delicious .  Just as grape juice ferments due the sugars and storage.

[lascuba]

53 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

And yet, one wonders if Jessa would go to Cintral America in the first place.  I'm guessing that even if Bin did feel a calling to go, Jessa would promptly find him another calling.

Which would be great! Because there's nothing worse than useless, racist Christian do-gooders throwing their weight around thinking  brown people are spiritually dead.

FYI: I new Derick was garbage from the day they announced that he was a "missionary" in Nepal. And the reason I always hated Jill the most even when she was a teen was because of her expressed desire to be a missionary. Jessa not feeling such a "calling" and her potentially discouraging Ben from such a course is a huge point in her favor.

[Linnee]

20 hours ago, Absolom said:

Every time I hear or read about people praying over parking places,  phone covers, clothes, etc., I'm reminded of a homily when I was a teen about not praying to receive trivia.  It was also called avoiding selfish praying or bugging God over things a person should use their God given brain to handle or decide. 

I wish I could find a viewable video of the 1993 SNL skit with Sally fields praying for every little thing. Jesus appears in her kitchen. Here's the script:  http://snltranscripts.jt.org/93/93ijesus.phtml

[crazycatlady58]

On 1/5/2017 at 1:18 PM, RazzleberryPie said:

So...if that was mistranslated, what else was mistranslated? God's word is perfect and without error, no? (I don't think it was a mistranslation. Jesus made wine.)

I agree ,  Jesus  did make wine   and a very  fine wine it was too. Still talking  about it 2000  + years  later. And you are correct  the only  things that were mistranslated were things they did not agree  with.

[Lemur]

2 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

I looked for a cpa license for him and he is not listed as having one.

I was going to say, if I cared enough I'd go look it up but I doubt he's got his CPA.  I know quite a few people who have accounting degrees who work in accounting but don't have their CPA.  

[Portia]

On the no-alcohol thing . . . When my kids were in Junior High/HS Sunday School, I always wondered why someone would twist the Scriptures to "prove" that all drinking is sinful instead of talking practically with young people about what a Christian's attitude toward alcohol should be. The Bible actually does talk about drinking in moderation, and Lord knows young people need good information about alcoholism, impaired driving, and other alcohol-related issues.

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, lascuba said:

Whether smarter or not, I think she's much more...pragmatic? No nonsense? Resilient? Which I--maybe unfairly--think of as smart traits. She's certainly not smart intellectually, but she would have never been so stressed out in Danger America that she would spend months crying over a fallen shower rack. And in the off-chance that she would have, she would have never been so stupid and socially unaware that she would have brought it up as an example of the danger she was in on national tv.

I agree that Jessa would not have volunteered any struggles she might have had if she went to Danger America, but other situations that have been filmed makes me think she would have struggled there. She couldn't even retrieve random roses that were within 2 feet of a stranger during her engagement scavenger hunt, she was unable to make small talk with the religious music dude and his wife and she appeared uncomfortable with Sierra and random-friend-lady on the way to the surprise baby shower. Jessa might not have feared being a white-lady-with-a-white-baby in Central America but she is not very bold or confident talking to anyone outside the Duggar circle.

I think Joy might have done okay, but I really think City Girl Jinger would have fared the best out of the Duggar girls.

Like I've said before I feel Jill was forced into real life before she grew out of the life is a fairy tale stage.

[Arwen Evenstar]

44 minutes ago, Lemur said:

I was going to say, if I cared enough I'd go look it up but I doubt he's got his CPA.  I know quite a few people who have accounting degrees who work in accounting but don't have their CPA.  

I believe the operative word is work.

[Missy Vixen]

7 hours ago, Lemur said:

Smarter?  No.  Cleverer?  Yes.  And more vindictive.

Jessa may be the one to bring KJB's house of cards down if she and Bin work together. The question is, however -- would she actually do it?

[BitterApple]

10 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

Jessa may be the one to bring KJB's house of cards down if she and Bin work together. The question is, however -- would she actually do it?

I don't think any of them have the balls to do it. None of the Duggar children or in-laws are too keen on getting jobs and working for a living.