Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[crazy8s]

well the truth is we don't know - Jill and Derick have said therapist or therapy. but no proof they haven't seen a qualified person.

I had a fairly traumatic childhood and worked with a therapist for years to sort that shit. Therapist was clear on website etc she was a Christian therapist and faith based. As was everyone on her staff (she and her husband owned the practice) everyone was college educated and fully licensed.

But as someone said earlier what Jill maybe started off with in therapy is not where it may end up. In working on one issue in a session I began to stutter, something I hadn't done for 30yrs. so to find the trigger for that was an adventure.

I hope Jill is continuing to get help. As isolated and clingy as she used to be, I think therapy sessions would have been something she looked forward to. something on her schedule with another adult.

[lookeyloo]

I learned in social work school  that "sometimes the presenting problem isn't the problem".  This was a long time ago and probably that phrase has been around a long time.  I never did practice but I have seen a therapist.  I found this to be true in my own personal case.  Can't say what is going on with Jill and Derick.  We just  don't know.

[Tuxcat]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Boundaries is a word Jill used most when speaking about therapy, it seems.

Watch the episode back in 2015 after the first Josh stuff. She said she had been to "counseling" and used the word "boundaries" a lot back then too.

As others have said, therapy doesn't necessarily mean a trained licensed certified professional.

[lascuba]

4 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

We don't have to think that the Dillards spout out rainbows and unicorns, but when these things are posted on Reddit, I worry that this is going to be a deflection off of the other family members. Yes, Jill and Derick can suck in many respects, but they suck less than JB and Michelle, and they DEFINITELY suck WAY less than Josh.

I think the exact opposite is more likely--all the goodwill they're getting now will lead people to ignore the fact that they are terrible people.. The way people are acting now? The Dillard's can put up another "charitable" donation link and scam a lot more money out of people this time, especially from those who swear up and down that they're not leghumpers.

[Lady Whistleup]

Jill mentioned abusive relationships and the importance of seeing a *licensed* therapist. 

There are licensed therapists who work specifically with fundie populations. Also therapy differs from person to person. It typically is only 45 min per week maximum though. And during the pandemic there's more tele-therapy sessions. I haven't seen my therapist face to face in over a year.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[auntieminem]

They (not sure if it is couple or just her) were still seeing therapist when they got Fenna, as they were talking about the schedule to go to training and had therapy scheduled. Their family life seems to have vastly improved and they appear much happier. Still have beliefs I am not on board with but they may change as they mature, I know mine did. I have hope for them, time will tell. I am a retired social worker so I have seen it all and am realistic but everyone has a story that has shaped their lives for good or bad and most have the ability to learn and grow. If I am hopeful for Jill or any of the Duggar kids (sans Josh), it doesn't make me a leghumper.  So much of their lives and behaviors make me shake my head some will never even put their toe out of the cult but odds are some will question and venture out a little.  JB and Gothardism has messed up the whole family, lots of families. 

[GeeGolly]

Just a quick PSA...

Not all past traumas remain unresolved, even without therapy. Everyone is impacted differently by what might be considered a traumatic event. A good example is not every serviceman/woman who served during a conflict has PTSD.

Jill may or may not have lingering effects from the molestations.

I wouldn't want anyone reading here to think there is a right way or wrong way to look at past traumas - their own, or others'.

 

[MMEButterfly]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:48 PM, galaxygirl76 said:

I'm sure it's so he can control the situation.

So, does JB fear Jill could influence others there --even Michelle? If so, what could JB fear from a Jill visit? 

[Minivanessa]

@auntieminem, I appreciate your comments. I too have hope for the Dillards, and I agree - time will tell. I see no need to demonize them. @GeeGolly, I also appreciate your sharing your knowledge and experience. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Some pictures:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO-zl6jgkAN/

They took Fenna hiking. Awesome. They're actually doing dog-appropriate activities with the dog. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Nice to see Joy's response in the comments. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/15/2021 at 5:51 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

The Dillards had a little vacation last week. Derelict must start a new job on Monday, in addition to his bar studies.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO6MEm_gyU6/?igshid=nvr4edgyaz7k

What kind of job?

[Lady Whistleup]

15 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Nice to see Joy's response in the comments. 

I hope the recent events bring the rest of the Duggars closer together. They need to support each other as they're the only people who know what it was like growing up with Josh.

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

What kind of job?

I'm just assuming he's going to work based on the comments Jill made about a short break. Derick is very private about his employment, so I don't expect to hear much on that front.

[SunnyBeBe]

27 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I'm just assuming he's going to work based on the comments Jill made about a short break. Derick is very private about his employment, so I don't expect to hear much on that front.

Oh, I see.  I wish him luck on the Bar exam, but working instead of nonstop studying is sort of risky. Maybe, he’s a lot smarter than me. Lol The best advice I got from a friend was to treat studying and daily bar prep classes like a full time job.  If you do that, the reading, quizzes, classes, etc. You should do ok.  I found it to be good advice.  My roommates and I actually studied, read or attended prep classes, from about 9:00 a.m. until 1:00 or 2:00 a.m. the next day, every day, 7 days a week for a couple of months with only about 3 days off.  ( With short breaks to eat, shower and go to the bathroom).  There’s no way I could have studied for the Bar exam with kids running around in the house. Lol

Edited May 17, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[BigBingerBro]

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh, I see.  I wish him luck on the Bar exam, but working instead of nonstop studying is sort of risky. Maybe, he’s a lot smarter than me. Lol The best advice I got from a friend was to treat studying and daily bar prep classes like a full time job.  If you do that, the reading, quizzes, classes, etc. You should do ok.  I found it to be good advice.  My roommates and I actually studied, read or attended prep classes, from about 9:00 a.m. until 1:00 or 2:00 a.m. the next day, every day, 7 days a week for a couple of months with only about 3 days off.  ( With short breaks to eat, shower and go to the bathroom).  

Yeah, I was thinking about his bar exam study as well. I've also heard of people working, and it doesn't surprise me that Derick thinks he can do both...well. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Maybe, he’s really smart, but I can’t imagine it.  

[JoanArc]

Ugh.  The first thing you have to say was it was trying?  Making it more bearable?This kind of goes back into the Josiah and Lauren more downs than ups anniversary. 

[GeeGolly]

9 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Ugh.  The first thing you have to say was it was trying?  Making it more bearable?This kind of goes back into the Josiah and Lauren more downs than ups anniversary. 

I'm guessing that part was meant for followers and the Duggar parents.

[Tuxcat]

12 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Ugh.  The first thing you have to say was it was trying?  Making it more bearable?This kind of goes back into the Josiah and Lauren more downs than ups anniversary. 

Yeah the tabloids are saying that line is "shade" at the Duggars but I don't think so. They've been through... Two C-sections, two young kids, scandals about donations, scandals from Derrick attacking a transgender teen and a happily married gay couple... I mean they've had enough "trying" times without the Duggars. Messed up jaw surgery, Dericks' throwing up thing... His mom's cancer...

But does Derrick really need to make all that public in a birthday post?  Just say HBD and I love you and you're the best thing since sliced bread...

Edited May 17, 2021 by Tuxcat

[JoanArc]

10 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing that part was meant for followers and the Duggar parents.

 I don’t think so. He’s such a complainer and a shit stirrer, he just can’t turn it off.

” Dear Derreck, happy birthday.  You are not the ugliest spouse, but you come close. But hey, you gotta marry somebody and you’re not all bad. Love you!“

[emmawoodhouse]

10 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Yeah the tabloids are saying that line is "shade" at the Duggars but I don't think so. They've been through... Two C-sections, two young kids, scandals about donations, scandals from Derrick attacking a transgender teen and a happily married gay couple... I mean they've had enough "trying" times without the Duggars. Messed up jaw surgery, Dericks' throwing up thing... His mom's cancer...

But does Derrick really need to make all that public in a birthday post?  Just say HBD and I love you and you're the best thing since sliced bread...

No. Derelict can't pass up an opportunity to twist the knife. 

[GeeGolly]

It sounds more like an anniversary post than a birthday post. But a birthday post can't be about Derick.

[Meow25]

22 hours ago, leighdear said:

I don't believe that Jill has been, or was regularly seeing a scientifically trained, educated and licensed psychologist of any type. 

My belief is she was probably briefly receiving some sort of "spiritual guidance" through a faith-based "counselor", aka Sweet Friend, in combination with YouTube videos, some Christian reading materials from Amazon, and the belief that if she & Deertick announced she was "in therapy", the critics on social media would continue to buy the concept of them going more "mainstream", and therefore piss on Jim Bob even more.  Throw in photos of Jill "drinking alcohol" and wearing swimwear and you have a Dillard Trifecta of how Dillweed can jab at JB the hardest, through Jill. 

Anybody can say they're "in therapy", and who will disprove it?  They can use the fabulous buzzwords like boundaries, triggers, Process, issues, etc.  Doesn't mean a damn thing.  REAL, meaningful therapy takes time, effort, money and support.  It doesn't happen in between dropping off your kindergartener and "modeling" freebie clothes from your cousin on your Instagram page.

But hey, maybe Jill has got the best therapist somebody's money can buy.  I will never say never.  

IMO this is unfair.  I am not in the Duggar cult, but I am a Christian.  Our church refers its members to a "Christian counselor" who graduated with a masters from PennState.  All it means is that she can counsel Christians with an understanding of their religion, and can weave their religion into their sessons.  Jill isn't in the cult anymore, and there is a good chance that her church also has a legitimate counselor that they refer to.  Most mainline and even most evangelical churches have real counselors that the refer people to.  I believe Jill is seeing an actual counselor that her church referred her to.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by Meow25
add

[Meow25]

22 hours ago, crazy8s said:

well the truth is we don't know - Jill and Derick have said therapist or therapy. but no proof they haven't seen a qualified person.

I had a fairly traumatic childhood and worked with a therapist for years to sort that shit. Therapist was clear on website etc she was a Christian therapist and faith based. As was everyone on her staff (she and her husband owned the practice) everyone was college educated and fully licensed.

But as someone said earlier what Jill maybe started off with in therapy is not where it may end up. In working on one issue in a session I began to stutter, something I hadn't done for 30yrs. so to find the trigger for that was an adventure.

I hope Jill is continuing to get help. As isolated and clingy as she used to be, I think therapy sessions would have been something she looked forward to. something on her schedule with another adult.

My mother rejected me.  Raised me coldly, openly disliked me and loved my young sister.  Everyone saw it, my dad did nothing to stop it.  She literally dumped me the day I graduated from high school, lives 5 miles away and has never met my children and has never acknowledged me in public.  There was also something that happened to me sexually around age 4/5 that I've never been able to uncover, but it's there.  

I've been in therapy for 21 years.  with real therapists.  I can't shake it.  Sometimes you don't get what you want which is healing.  PTSD is an asshole, and it's real.  Jill may never shake it, or she will be just fine.  There's no schedule of healing.  

[Lady Whistleup]

15 minutes ago, Meow25 said:

IMO this is unfair.  I am not in the Duggar cult, but I am a Christian.  Our church refers its members to a "Christian counselor" who graduated with a masters from PennState.  All it means is that she can counsel Christians with an understanding of their religion, and can weave their religion into their sessons.  Jill isn't in the cult anymore, and there is a good chance that her church also has a legitimate counselor that they refer to.  Most mainline and even most evangelical churches have real counselors that the refer people to.  I believe Jill is seeing an actual counselor that her church referred her to.  

Many licensed therapists are actually skilled at dealing with the unique problems in fundie communities. Doesn't make them less legit.

But I am uncomfortable with shaming people about their choices for therapy. It only adds to the stigma of seeking help if people are judgmental about what kind of "help" they deem acceptable. 

[Heathen]

23 hours ago, leighdear said:

Anybody can say they're "in therapy", and who will disprove it?  They can use the fabulous buzzwords like boundaries, triggers, Process, issues, etc.  Doesn't mean a damn thing.  REAL, meaningful therapy takes time, effort, money and support.  It doesn't happen in between dropping off your kindergartener and "modeling" freebie clothes from your cousin on your Instagram page.

"REAL, meaningful therapy" absolutely can take place between dropping kids off and posting on Instagram. That's how most people manage therapy -- with their daily activities. I managed therapy between work, school, and cat rescue volunteering. 

Would you be more sympathetic to Jill if she were posting photos of herself prostrate on the floor, howling, and kicking her hands and feet, rather than posting photos of her daily life as a wife and mother?

Therapy isn't up for anyone else to judge. 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, Heathen said:

"REAL, meaningful therapy" absolutely can take place between dropping kids off and posting on Instagram. That's how most people manage therapy -- with their daily activities. I managed therapy between work, school, and cat rescue volunteering. 

Would you be more sympathetic to Jill if she were posting photos of herself prostrate on the floor, howling, and kicking her hands and feet, rather than posting photos of her daily life as a wife and mother?

Therapy isn't up for anyone else to judge. 

My therapy sessions used to happen after school and before I went to my night job. I would squeeze 45 minutes in between.

As I said, I don't find therapy shaming to be appropriate. We are not Jill's therapist or doctor and we cannot judge the care she's getting or not getting.

[ginger90]

[GeeGolly]

In my neck of the woods, anyone with a Master's degree in the mental health field refers to themselves and colleagues as clinicians and therapists. We use the term counselor for those who have a Bachelor's degree or less. Also in my area, churches don't hire therapists/clinicians, though they do refer their congregants to outside professionals. And we have many therapists in the area who specialize in different religions. I would caution though, if a church refers you to a counselor who is employed by the church, its unlikely they're a licensed clinician/therapist.

Edited May 17, 2021 by GeeGolly

[JoanArc]

 I think trying to spin a theory that Jill or Derek is somehow trying to fake therapy is the silliest Duggar pseudo-rumor I’ve read.

 I’m much more inclined to believe it Derreck dissolved his central American lover’s body in acid using his bathtub, breaking bad style.

[BigBingerBro]

[Tikichick]

30 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

In my neck of the woods, anyone with a Master's degree in the mental health field refers to themselves and colleagues as clinicians and therapists. We use the term counselor for those who have a Bachelor's degree or less. Also in my area, churches don't hire therapists/clinicians, though they do refer their congregants to outside professionals. And we have many therapists in the area who specialize in different religions. I would caution though, if a church refers you to a counselor who is employed by the church, its unlikely they're a licensed clinician/therapist.

Are there churches who hire therapists or counselors on staff?   As far as I know that's not a thing in our area.   That seems like an odd idea to me.

I know our church has a few resources that they will point members towards if they are asking for help, but they're not at all affiliated with our church.   Matter of fact some of the names our church gives out are also on the lists judges use.  Good, solid, experienced professionals, some with specialties in different areas.  I know the grief specialists on the list are people our pastor has met over the years visiting members in the hospitals and in hospice care.      

[Aunt Catfish]

59 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

This is a fantastic picture of Jill!

[beckie]

Does the family time comment, along with Joy's comment,  mean she actually got to celebrate her birthday with the Duggars? Or am I reading too much into it?

[SMama]

3 minutes ago, beckie said:

Does the family time comment, along with Joy's comment,  mean she actually got to celebrate her birthday with the Duggars? Or am I reading too much into it?

I think you’re reading too much I to it, but hope I’m wrong. They went camping and stayed two nights. I think that’s the family time Jill is referencing. 

[crazy8s]

7 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Are there churches who hire therapists or counselors on staff?   As far as I know that's not a thing in our area.   That seems like an odd idea to me.

there are actually churches that either have a counselor on staff or gives a person office space in their building. (Church refers people and the counselors pay rent for the office.)

Often in my area churches list a staff person who called  "spiritual counselor to help you navigated the challenges in life in a God pleasing way"  - some are actually good trained and licensed therapists and sometimes it is the pastor's wife, mom or some other relative the church has on the payroll.

[MzTori77]

19 hours ago, auntieminem said:

They (not sure if it is couple or just her) were still seeing therapist when they got Fenna, as they were talking about the schedule to go to training and had therapy scheduled. Their family life seems to have vastly improved and they appear much happier. Still have beliefs I am not on board with but they may change as they mature, I know mine did. I have hope for them, time will tell. I am a retired social worker so I have seen it all and am realistic but everyone has a story that has shaped their lives for good or bad and most have the ability to learn and grow. If I am hopeful for Jill or any of the Duggar kids (sans Josh), it doesn't make me a leghumper.  So much of their lives and behaviors make me shake my head some will never even put their toe out of the cult but odds are some will question and venture out a little.  JB and Gothardism has messed up the whole family, lots of families. 

Very well said! It was gracious and not mean-spirited.....something this world could use a lot more of!

Edited May 17, 2021 by MzTori77

[GeeGolly]

28 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Are there churches who hire therapists or counselors on staff?   As far as I know that's not a thing in our area.   That seems like an odd idea to me.

Not therapists, but many churches have counselors on staff. As @crazy8s posted, many are laypeople.

[Zella]

At C of O, there were two types of counselors. The lay ones who nobody trusted because they had a well-earned reputation as a bunch of narcs, and the actual licensed professional therapists who, by all accounts, were very professional.

People who needed assistance were directed to the former by the college, and most of us (myself included) didn't realize there were two types. I only found out there were others because one of my friends started seeing one of the professionals. Because I was just like, prepare to be kicked out, friendo! And she explained to me that, no, her confidentiality would actually be protected because she was working with an actual professional who, you know, followed ethical standards. 

I personally don't think whatever counseling the Duggars got after the molestations came from a real therapist or counselor, but I don't have any reason to believe that whoever Jill has seen recently isn't legitimate simply because of a possible affiliation with their church. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Zella

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, Zella said:

At C of O, there were two types of counselors. The lay ones who nobody trusted because they had a well-earned reputation as a bunch of narcs, and the actual licensed professional therapists who, by all accounts, were very professional.

People who needed assistance were directed to the former by the college, and most of us (myself included) didn't realize there were two types. I only found out there were others because one of my friends started seeing one of the professionals. Because I was just like, prepare to be kicked out, friendo! And she explained to me that, no, her confidentiality would actually be protected because she was working with an actual professional who, you know, followed ethical standards. 

I personally don't think whatever counseling the Duggars got after the molestations came from a real therapist or counselor, but I don't have any reason to believe that whoever Jill has seen recently isn't legitimate simply because of a possible affiliation with their church. 

My best friend is studying to be a pastor. She had to take numerous courses on counseling and would tell us about some of the things they have to study. 

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Are there churches who hire therapists or counselors on staff?   As far as I know that's not a thing in our area.   That seems like an odd idea to me.

There are at least a few that do.  One mega church in our area certainly does.  I met with one.  It was interesting.  I only did one visit, but it helped and answered some questions that I had.   He didn't do counseling for everyone at the church, but usually served for things like mine which were very quick or short duration or in helping people find someone who was a good match.  

Incidentally my family issues resolved the day my father died.  I'd had three rounds of counseling (lay licensed professionals) and had reached a level of it no longer affecting my life usually and still everything remaining just went away a few hours after I heard he was gone.  

I believe Jill when she says licensed therapy.  The change in her and her family has been amazing and wonderful to see.  

[Tuxcat]

I mean to be honest there are good counselors and good therapists and there are bad counselors and bad therapists. Never is it as simple as "just make sure they are licensed, professional." Some are highly trained and still ineffective. Some are laypeople but have a genuine gift. Or the reverse.

And of course the heath system as a whole is full of deep and wide cracks (and yes even quacks) where many seek help but do not truly receive the help they need.

 Bottom line, we won't ever know who she saw or who she's seeing - and who knows how much "therapy" is responsible for what we see.  Yes her presence online and what she has chosen to share has changed somewhat, which we can ASSUME means personal growth (though I'd like to see more in terms of her ideology and her husband's behavior)  She's 30 now. I changed a lot by 30 and then again at 40 and then again... It's a journey.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I mean to be honest there are good counselors and good therapists and there are bad counselors and bad therapists. Never is it as simple as "just make sure they are licensed, professional." Some are highly trained and still ineffective. Some are laypeople but have a genuine gift. Or the reverse.

Word to this. I once went to a highly recommended therapist. She turned out to be a totally toxic personality who started telling me that Lady Gaga is Satanic and therefore I shouldn't buy her albums. This was from a licensed psychotherapist.

I am really glad Joy wished Jill a happy birthday. Their seeming estrangement made me sad.

[ginger90]

[SMama]

Guess that’s what Jill meant by family time. I’m glad she has Amy and Deanna. I wish someone gave Jill sunglasses for her birthday.

[JoanArc]

Just a reminder that Jim Bob and Michelle called themselves marriage counselors for many years

I’m almost certain Jill is seeing someone with a good training and proper background.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

I mean to be honest there are good counselors and good therapists and there are bad counselors and bad therapists. Never is it as simple as "just make sure they are licensed, professional." Some are highly trained and still ineffective. Some are laypeople but have a genuine gift. Or the reverse.

And of course the heath system as a whole is full of deep and wide cracks (and yes even quacks) where many seek help but do not truly receive the help they need.

 Bottom line, we won't ever know who she saw or who she's seeing - and who knows how much "therapy" is responsible for what we see.  Yes her presence online and what she has chosen to share has changed somewhat, which we can ASSUME means personal growth (though I'd like to see more in terms of her ideology and her husband's behavior)  She's 30 now. I changed a lot by 30 and then again at 40 and then again... It's a journey.

I agree wholeheartedly some therapists suck and I agree some laypeople can provide awesome support. But support is different than therapy and a layperson could actually do damage in trying to provide more than run of the mill support.

And as I tell anyone seeking therapy, never stick with a therapist who isn't helping. Keep looking until you find a good fit.

[thehorseofpower]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:18 PM, leighdear said:

Anybody can say they're "in therapy", and who will disprove it?  They can use the fabulous buzzwords like boundaries, triggers, Process, issues, etc.  Doesn't mean a damn thing.  REAL, meaningful therapy takes time, effort, money and support.  It doesn't happen in between dropping off your kindergartener and "modeling" freebie clothes from your cousin on your Instagram page.

I don't quite understand when therapy is supposed to happen, then...regular daily life doesn't stop while you are in therapy. When I went to a therapist a few years ago, I had to go to those appointments in between work, child rearing, family weddings, seeing friends, etc. I didn't (and couldn't) stop doing everything else in my life to only do therapy for six months. I'm sure the people who only followed my life through my Facebook posts never knew I was seeing a therapist. I have no idea what Jill's therapy is like or how seriously she takes it, but I certainly don't think we can tell either way based on Instagram posts about her regular daily life.