Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[jcbrown]

 

And obviously Derick, Dan & Baby Dilly were WANTED and wouldn't have been aborted.

That's the part that befuddles me about that post. So being pro-choice means you abort every pregnancy? I am extremely pro-choice and that makes no sense to me.

[Absolom]

No, they don't think every pregnancy would be aborted.  Please see my fundie translation above.  It scares me sometimes that I can translate fundie fairly often.

[bigskygirl]

I see her point of view, but I do not agree with it. I am pro-choice but not pro-abortion. People like her fight to save the life of the baby, but they do not help the baby after he or she is born. They also believe a woman ask to be raped because she tease the man, and the poor woman cannot become pregnant during a legitimate rape. She also should not be thinking abortion if she becomes pregnant, and she should be happy about having a baby by a man who violated her mentally and physically.

 

I wonder how she would feel if baby Dilly was a result of a rape. Would she blame Jill for leading the man on and tell Derick to leave her because she would be considered damage goods. Or would she smile sweetly and pray to God to help her love the baby.

[Mrsjumbo]

I didn't see the episode where Anna gave birth but how exactly do they film this? Obviously the birth can be edited to make sure nothing "down there" is visible but you can't edit in real life. These camera crews are men. How can a family who is constantly talking about modesty and thinks holding hands or hugging is so intimate you can't do it unless you are engaged or married allow random camera men to see you in the all together?

This boggles my mind too. Lord knows I had my wild days in my 20's, but when it came time to deliver my kids it was just me & mr jumbo & medical personnel. No relatives, no video cameras, etc.

I can't see how you can not expose shoulders or knees, but baring a hoo ha for the camera crew is fine.

[3girlsforus]

I have no issue with someone being pro-life. The fact that they think they "survived" Roe v. Wade takes to a weird extreme, IMO. Why would Cathy insinuate that none of them would be alive if abortion were legal? She doesn't know if she would have been aborted no matter if abortion was legal. And obviously Derick, Dan & Baby Dilly were WANTED and wouldn't have been aborted.

 

Cathy is adopted. She meant that had adoption been legal at the time she was adopted she most likely wouldn't be here. That is not an uncommon comment and definitely true for a lot of adopted people including myself. 

[Rhondinella]

Ok, let's not even get into the abortion debate here guys.  It's been civil so far, which I appreciate, but we all know how this ends.  Thanks.

[Darknight]

Here is Cathy's most recent tweet.....

"If abortion had been legal when I was born, I wouldn't be here! Neither would Derick, Dan or Baby Dilly!"

She is definitely more conservative than we all originally thought. Or she drank the Kool-Aid.

This doesn't make any sense.

[WTFFF]

She...does realize that when abortion isn't legal, women simply turn to illegal alternatives, right? 

 

And if these folks believe that the babies exist in some soul form and the parents just "give them homes" or whatever, then no child is ever really created uniquely by the parents - Baby Dilly would have a different name and appearance, but they would still exist in some capacity, just biologically related to parents who did exist to conceive it.

 

Holy crap am I overthinking this. 

[frenchtoast]

Having a dream about Jill is a very good reason why I shouldn't be reading this forum before going to bed ;) And of all the forums I read, it's pretty much just Jill that I have dreams about. 

[floridamom]

WTFFF, Great Post! Yes, this is something I have believed all my adult life. Whether one is "for it or against it", a person of faith, any faith, who believes that a human soul is created by God, is taught that that soul already exists or "lives" in heaven with God, the Creator of Life prior to "being assigned" to a physical mother, here on Earth. Having said that, how is an abortion "killing" that soul's physical assignment? Since "God already knows all", He already is aware of what that mother's decision will be, having the child or aborting that child. So, why would the Almighty assign a soul to a mother who will not choose to continue that pregnancy in the first place? That soul would remain "in heaven" with God and be assigned to someone else who will complete the task. Nothing surprises God..having said that, we also have free will as God deemed us here to have, so why would an abortion that would be SOMEONE ELSE's decision bother them so much? None of them have to choose that route in the first place. Like I said, great post WTFFF, thanks for that one.

If one believes in a spiritual life for souls before and after this life, they should also believe that that soul will continue to exist.

[frenchtoast]

Ok, let's not even get into the abortion debate here guys.  It's been civil so far, which I appreciate, but we all know how this ends.  Thanks.

[3girlsforus]

You really must see Michael's "modest" home toilet birth.

Yikes...  I know laboring on the toilet is a common thing and can be very useful since it puts you in a good position without having to hold yourself up in the squat. And of course any position you labor in you can end up delivering in depending on how it goes. Nothing wrong with that. That said... I wouldn't want that on film for the world to see and I definitely wouldn't want a camera crew in my face during my labor. I had very long labors (and home births) but even my midwives would leave me alone or with my husband for some peace while I labored. I can't help but think it was probably awkward for the camera guys too. 

[DamWrite]

Please don't ban me...here's a sweet vid of J&D with four of the littlest girls.  Fondue party and manicures.  I enjoyed it.  Like I said, please don't ban me for admitting that.  http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-and-counting-exclusive-sneak-peek-derick-jill-sleep-over-party?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag 

[bigskygirl]

Are they trying to show how great a father Derick will be all season? Boring!!!  Derick and Jill were in D.C. last weekend, and the cameras were with Derick, Josh, and the three kids while they went grocery shopping. I bet Josh was giving Derick his expertise on how he is a great father to his investments...errr...God's Army...children. I am sure Josh will struggle keeping an eye on his three children, and Anna will give her expertise on what it is like to be film on television while giving birth. Josh and Anna giving advice after admitting they can not take care of the three they have, and they did not show Jana on their trip last season helping out.

[MMLEsq]

Please don't ban me...here's a sweet vid of J&D with four of the littlest girls.  Fondue party and manicures.  I enjoyed it.  Like I said, please don't ban me for admitting that.  http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-and-counting-exclusive-sneak-peek-derick-jill-sleep-over-party?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag 

It was a cute video -- and Derrick does seem like he's good with kids.  It was sweet to watch.  Although it bothered me that they didn't stop the girls from eating the fruit right off the fondue forks -- I kept waiting for one of the girls either to burn her mouth on the hot fork or cut the inside of her mouth.  

[GEML]

I think most of the men in the Duggar orbit are good with children or they wouldn't be there. The difference is that working a full time job, raising children while coping with morning sickness, and not having another pair of hands isn't like anything ANY of these couples have experienced, except Josh and Anna, who don't complain about being overwhelmed by their children any more than anyone else does in the DC area, to be honest, so that sort of rolls off of me.

[duggarshow]

Here is Cathy's most recent tweet.....

 

"If abortion had been legal when I was born, I wouldn't be here! Neither would Derick, Dan or Baby Dilly!"

 

She is definitely more conservative than we all originally thought. Or she drank the Kool-Aid. 

 

You don't necessarily have to be conservative to be pro life. 

[frenchtoast]

There have been two notes already to lay off the abortion discussion. Not only is it off topic, it's a discussion that is bound to end badly. Posts will be deleted.

[Barb23]

Yikes...  I know laboring on the toilet is a common thing and can be very useful since it puts you in a good position without having to hold yourself up in the squat. And of course any position you labor in you can end up delivering in depending on how it goes. Nothing wrong with that. That said... I wouldn't want that on film for the world to see and I definitely wouldn't want a camera crew in my face during my labor. I had very long labors (and home births) but even my midwives would leave me alone or with my husband for some peace while I labored. I can't help but think it was probably awkward for the camera guys too.

She didn't actually labor on toilet. She thought she had "to go" so they moved her to bathroom. It was probably pressure from baby she was feeling as Michael was born shortly after she was on toilet. And yes, EVERYONE moved into the bathroom with her & they didn't have a big bathroom. IIRC, her privates, what we would have been able to see from camera angle, were blurred out. It's one thing recording the birth privately, but knowing you're being recorded by a professional film crew (mostly men) had to be uncomfortable for everyone. But they agreed to it. I do remember when Theresa had Audriana on Housewives of NJ. The actual birth wasn't filmed, the crew was out in the hall. We just heard a baby crying & Teresa said something like Oh she's here.

[MichaelaRae]

When the Real Housewives of Anywhere are more modest about their birthgiving-lady parts than a Duggar...wow.

[maraleia]

When I posted Cathy's twitter handle it was only for reference sake not a window to discuss abortion in general. Please remember to heed the other mods notes in future about any issue we bring up.

[Mariva]

Please don't ban me...here's a sweet vid of J&D with four of the littlest girls.  Fondue party and manicures.  I enjoyed it.  Like I said, please don't ban me for admitting that.  http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-and-counting-exclusive-sneak-peek-derick-jill-sleep-over-party?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag 

I honestly don’t mind seeing more moments like this. Obviously the party was staged for the cameras but I thought Derick’s interactions with the little girls felt very genuine and sweet. It didn’t feel contrived like when Michelle tries to awkwardly “bond” with her kids that she knows nothing about or Jim Bob yukking it up in front of the cameras for attention. I could easily see Derick and Jill hosting many of these parties for the little kids and having fun doing it. Derick does seem like he'll make a great dad and that gives me hope for his and Jill's future, that they'll take their time to enjoy parenthood instead of rushing to pop out as many babies as possible. I'll go step off my soapbox now, lol. 

 

Moving on...did people see this photo that Jill posted on her Facebook this morning???https://www.facebook.com/1480440265504529/photos/pb.1480440265504529.-2207520000.1422385333./1583412028540685/?type=1&theater

Photo of her with a group of women, including her (former?) midwife advisor Venessa, and holding a plastic baby with the caption: "Taking our biannual neonatal resuscitation training". It looks like it was taken fairly recently because Jill looks pregnant IMO. Does anyone know if she was at a birthing class or if this training was for her midwife studies? Hmm, could it be that Jill was quietly working all this time and she didn't actually quit midwifery once she got married like so many thought she would??

[BitterApple]

The video was cute but I can't tell if Derick truly enjoys interacting with the Duggar kids or if he just does it to keep Jill happy. Watching the younger set of Duggar girls, it's crazy to me how they have a completely unique and different look than the older set. I don't remember any of the J'Slaves having really white-blond hair as a child the way Jenny, Jordyn and Josie do.

[jb0495]

I didn't mean to start an abortion discussion, was just surprised to see that Cathy does lean more towards the Duggars than I originally thought.

I thought the video was cute & it does show how Derick is good with the little kids. Contrasting that with Erin & Chad Paine having a few of the Bates kids over, it shows how different the dynamic is between the families. The Bates kids are much better behaved & they seem to enjoy each other's company more.

[bigskygirl]

Derick probably humors Jill when it comes to having the younger siblings over. I feel sorry for Derick since he has a clinging co-dependent wife who needs to spend so much time with him and going home after a long day at work to find some of her family visiting and/or spending the night. Will the howlers or lost girls be visiting a lot after the baby comes.

[3girlsforus]

She didn't actually labor on toilet. She thought she had "to go" so they moved her to bathroom. It was probably pressure from baby she was feeling as Michael was born shortly after she was on toilet. And yes, EVERYONE moved into the bathroom with her & they didn't have a big bathroom. IIRC, her privates, what we would have been able to see from camera angle, were blurred out. It's one thing recording the birth privately, but knowing you're being recorded by a professional film crew (mostly men) had to be uncomfortable for everyone. But they agreed to it. I do remember when Theresa had Audriana on Housewives of NJ. The actual birth wasn't filmed, the crew was out in the hall. We just heard a baby crying & Teresa said something like Oh she's here.

 

Well yuck... not the birth on the toilet. That happens. No biggie. But an entire entourage there vying for position, open to the point of needing to blur it out on tv.... I just can't imagine wanting that to be the way I go through labor or the way I meet my child. They did agree to it. I wonder how much choice Anna really had. She married Duggar #1. It's his job to keep them on the air. 

[rue721]

Well yuck... not the birth on the toilet. That happens. No biggie. But an entire entourage there vying for position, open to the point of needing to blur it out on tv.... I just can't imagine wanting that to be the way I go through labor or the way I meet my child. They did agree to it. I wonder how much choice Anna really had. She married Duggar #1. It's his job to keep them on the air. 

 

Possible spoiler for American Horror Story (this season, Freak Show): 

Going into labor and giving birth on television like that reminds me so much of Jimmy's birth to Ethel. When Dell was selling tickets and acting as carnival barker for it.

[cereality]

New Duggar commercial airing on TLC for the new season in Feb -- it was on during the Kate + 8 show. It shows them sitting down with the family with Derick announcing "the pregnancy test said positive" -- with a requisite shot of the older sisters with Jana squealing with excitement. I guess they re-created it for the cameras, but Jill had said that her sisters urged her to take the test, Derick was in there with her, and when they came out of the bathroom the sisters were like "OMG you're pregnant." Guess the cameras weren't around to capture it, so they had to re-do it.

 

There's also a shot of an ultrasound with Derick saying "hi baby I'm you're daddy." I know people on here like him, but the dude seems so girly and lame to me; not that other fathers won't say that but it's just his overall affect -- of OMG bald eagles mate for life and OMG I'm so emotional seeing my baby. I don't think it's uncommon for fundie guys to be lacking masculinity . . . .

[RazzleberryPie]

And if these folks believe that the babies exist in some soul form and the parents just "give them homes" or whatever, then no child is ever really created uniquely by the parents - Baby Dilly would have a different name and appearance, but they would still exist in some capacity, just biologically related to parents who did exist to conceive it.. 

It's LDS/Mormons who believe families already exist as spirit babies in heaven and are waiting to be born so they're reunited on earth in this life. I am not aware of Cathy the Baptist, the Duggars, or actually any Protestant or Catholic church that teaches this. There may be jokes that 'Baby Dilly' is a gift from heaven or that babies come from heaven, but that's on par with saying the stork delivers them or they're found in a cabbage patch. It's just a cutesy was to explain where babies come from without discussing sex.

[Mrsjumbo]

Someone here posted that Jill always has the upturned eyebrows & continually surprised expression in every photo. Now that's all I can see, as in that Facebook photo.

[Sew Sumi]

I bet it was nothing more than what she called "biannual" (every two year) CPR certification for Red Cross. Too bad she makes it appear that she's still studying midwifery; all she's really doing  is keeping up with that certification, probably for her own edification at this point. 

 

So yeah, nothing to see here...I've taken the same test. It's not "rocket surgery." :D

[NikSac]

 It's just a cutesy was to explain where babies come from without discussing sex.

 

Since when does this family have issues discussing sex?  Seems like it's all they freaking talk about! I know more about their sex lives than any of my friends or relatives. It's gross (to me).  Granted Michelle and JB are the worst about it, but I wonder if Derick and Jill are/will be much better.

[RazzleberryPie]

Since when does this family have issues discussing sex?  Seems like it's all they freaking talk about! I know more about their sex lives than any of my friends or relatives. It's gross (to me).  Granted Michelle and JB are the worst about it, but I wonder if Derick and Jill are/will be much better.

They don't, and honestly, I haven't heard them say anything about pre-existing souls in heaven or whatever. You're correct that for all the long skirts, modesty mentions, saying 'expecting' instead of pregnant, etc., all these people talk about is sex for entertainment and procreation. I guess this is all you can focus on when you don't watch tv, read books, go to school, play sports, have any hobby, go anywhere besides fellowshipping with other people just like you, etc.

[Barb23]

New Duggar commercial airing on TLC for the new season in Feb -- it was on during the Kate + 8 show. It shows them sitting down with the family with Derick announcing "the pregnancy test said positive" -- with a requisite shot of the older sisters with Jana squealing with excitement. I guess they re-created it for the cameras, but Jill had said that her sisters urged her to take the test, Derick was in there with her, and when they came out of the bathroom the sisters were like "OMG you're pregnant." Guess the cameras weren't around to capture it, so they had to re-do it.

 

There's also a shot of an ultrasound with Derick saying "hi baby I'm you're daddy." I know people on here like him, but the dude seems so girly and lame to me; not that other fathers won't say that but it's just his overall affect -- of OMG bald eagles mate for life and OMG I'm so emotional seeing my baby. I don't think it's uncommon for fundie guys to be lacking masculinity . . . .

I saw the commercial & thought the same thing. I'm surprised a film crew isn't "on call" for these type of awesome special announcements. Remember Josh calling the film crew when Anna "joined the mommy club" announcement for Mack?

Oh my, it's bad when I can remember lines from the show but can't remember things I need at the store.

[Sew Sumi]

The production crew used to have an apartment in AR, back in the days when Sean Overbeeke was producing. Now that Courtney Enlow is in charge, with hubby Scott as head cameraman, I wonder if they still keep someone in AR for these "announcements," since the Enlows have something like 3 or 4 kids to take care of and obviously can't be there 24/7/365? 

 

I guess Mr. Jim and John Rotan are always available, but even they need some time away from this circus! 

[BitterApple]

Someone here posted that Jill always has the upturned eyebrows & continually surprised expression in every photo. Now that's all I can see, as in that Facebook photo.

Jill has the worst selfie face ever. She's going to get some nasty forehead wrinkles if she doesn't stop with the "raised eyebrows/surprised expression" look in every shot.

 

Regarding Derick, I agree that Fundie guys seem weirdly feminine. Josh, Chad, TFDW, Michaela's fiancé and Derick all have girly affects. For a culture that is so chauvinist, Gothardland sure is heavy on beta males.

[cereality]

Jill has the worst selfie face ever. She's going to get some nasty forehead wrinkles if she doesn't stop with the "raised eyebrows/surprised expression" look in every shot.

 

Regarding Derick, I agree that Fundie guys seem weirdly feminine. Josh, Chad, TFDW, Michaela's fiancé and Derick all have girly affects. For a culture that is so chauvinist, Gothardland sure is heavy on beta males.

Maybe this isn't accurate, but I always felt like guys learn how to be manly by hanging with other guys their age and by being competitive -- everything from football practice to trash talking over video games. I feel like fundies separate out their boys from society -- they all homeschool, they aren't a part of their communities (though Derick was in college) so they aren't playing on sports teams etc, they're being raised by men who are generally duds, and the emphasis is always on "what would Jesus want" and keeping sweet. I don't find the Bates boys to be as feminine, yet even in that family I feel like if Kelly heard Lawson trash talking with a friend, there would be a lecture about how it wasn't Christian -- instead of a "eh it's what 20 yr old men do." So that results in guys who are pretty feminine, including Derick. I don't find Ben to be feminine, and it appears that he actually has his own friends as well as a best friend in college, if his wedding party is an indication-- so maybe there's something to that. All the Duggar men fall into that category of being feminine, including the same vibe from Derick as he's willing to profess his girl-ish excitement regarding a pregnancy test and his child; I'm not saying that men aren't excited about these things, but they express it differently.

 

I think Chad is hot and would never imagine him being feminine, and when I saw the episode re the miscarriages, it seemed like he was ready to cry every time he talked about it in the TH and said "it wasn't easy," but then I thought -- they lost a child, it's hard on the father too, and he has to watch his wife suffer. Then I watched some web clip of them where Erin had just got done saying that her dream was some fairytale princess proposal and she was so worried that she'd get with a guy who wouldn't understand how important it was to her, and again we have Chad with tears in his eyes and his voice shaking saying "I didn't want to mess anything up." It's like -- dude -- grow a pair; I mean do a nice job, but you really don't have to cry about whether or not it'll be everything she hopes bc she's just thrilled that you put a ring on it and will give her babies soon.

[Micks Picks]

Oh Barf.  On the feminine men and the princess proposal--everything.  Barf barf and barf.

[GEML]

I actually have a whole theory on the beta men and the wives and why so many women in these religious movements are anti-feminism. Until feminism, these men were doing the more feminized jobs in society, but it wasn't considered unmanly to do them. These jobs also paid higher because the notion was all jobs were to go to a man supporting a family.

After feminism, many jobs held by beta men were taken by women. It became unmanly to hold them or men were often not as good in them as detail oriented women. Women often worked for lower salaries, as the immediate wave of women coming in weren't supporting a family but supplementing a husband's income. This kept wages lower going forward.

So many of these women see their husbands as victims of feminism. Many of the men have female bosses who are better at the job and make more money. Often it's not the men ( who are beta men, after all) who are furious, but their wives.

Just throwing this out there.

Edited January 28, 2015 by GEML

[Ljohnson1987]

Jill and Derrick have known each other a little over a year and they're already married and having a baby. I guess slow and steady isn't the Duggar motto. Does she really know him? 

[GEML]

No, she doesn't. Biochemically, her body couldn't give her an objective opinion between falling in love and then being pregnant.

That said, they may go on to have a very strong marriage, if we think of it as an arranged marriage.

[BitterApple]

I think that overall, Jill and Derick are well-suited and happy. I do think Jill is immature and clingy, but we have to consider that in the context of a woman who is essentially experiencing her first crush at the age of 23.

 

I had predicted Derick may eventually get bored with Jill, but after Cathy released that pro-life tweet I'm starting to think they're heavier Kool-Aid drinkers than we previously thought.

Edited January 28, 2015 by BitterApple

[cereality]

I think that overall, Jill and Derick are well-suited and happy. I do think Jill is immature and clingy, but we have to consider that in the context of a woman who is essentially experiencing her first crush at the age of 23.

 

I had predicted Derick may eventually get bored with Jill, but after Cathy released that pro-life tweet I'm starting to think they're heavier Kool-Aid drinkers than we previously thought.

Derick and his mom are definitely kool aid drinkers -- can't tell about the brother yet. I mean he sought JB out. Even if he wasn't doing it to get a daughter's hand in marriage, I find it hard to believe that you can live in NW Arkansas and not know who the Duggars are; they are local celebrities and have been on TV for a decade. Even if you don't watch the show, you know they are known fundies. Someone who wasn't into that or didn't want anything to do with that would not seek out that family as prayer partners or even for mission funding. You'd instead reach out to your own (Baptist or whatever he is) church and find prayer partners and/or financial support that way. I think Cathy seems annoyed around the Duggars, but I don't know if that's bc she necessary disagrees with their religious values. It's likely because she disagrees with their "social" values -- skirts; no education; girls can't work/leave the home/text a boyfriend/have a boyfriend etc. -- and likely bc she also finds them loud, boorish and quick to overtake her and Dan. I mean she made a snarky comment to Michelle when Michelle said something about how well Derick was raised and she said "well we used the same book you did." But I don't think she necessarily disagrees with their religious perspective too much.

[Barb23]

Centrality - I agree with you. I also remember when Jill was in Nepal, Derick said he understood & would adhere to the family's courting rules. So he knew what he was getting into.

[GEML]

For all their religious belief similarities, the Dillard's are from a different social class than the Duggars. They aren't, to quote Michelle, "barefoot and backyard" people.

[Ljohnson1987]

I wonder if Jill will kick J'Chelle out of the room when she's having Baby Dilly.  I'd love to see that happen. J'Chelle is a fame hog. Your daughter, not you, is giving birth. Let her have her moment. 

[bigskygirl]

Jill is turning into a major famewhore just like her mother. She thinks the sun sits and rises on her because she is the first of the daughters to get married and to get knocked up quickly. Michelle wants her golden opportunity to prove she is a good mother by not leaving Jill during her time of need. In Jill's state of mind, the more the merrier when it comes to her five minutes of fame during her labor and delivery. Just like her mother, she thinks she is the queen bee and does not want to give up this title anytime soon.

[Hpmec]

Jill is salivating at the thought of her upcoming People cover showing her and Derick lovingly cradling Baby Dilly. A multi-page spread chronicling her labor and thoughts on motherhood will await readers inside.

Big name celebrities command millions for first baby photos and then donate the money to charity. Safe bet that the Dillards will pocket every penny of whatever People coughs up. Hope they save it because they'll need it when people lose interest and they find themselves with a dozen howlers and a limited income from an accounting job.

[GEML]

No way Michelle is getting kicked out. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Jill had the baby and presented it to her mother first, before her husband. After all, she knows Derick loves her.

[Wellfleet]

How true. Since she's had years of practice, Jill won't need the help of caring for Dilly the first couple of days that most of us needed when we had our first baby. I'm sure she can change a diaper standing on her head blindfolded. Now she will have her choice of a J'slave to come over to help with housekeeping chores. But I wonder if MEchelle will be jealous of Cathy coming over & spending the day with them, since it is Jilly Muffin, HER first DUGGAR daughter to give birth.

 

You wonder if Mechelle will be jealous? She will be - for sure - so jealous her hair will straighten...