Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[BitterApple]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm still confused why Jill has to ask Boobs permission to go to the TTH ? I understand he is upset with Derick, but what did Jill do ?

Boob would push a paraplegic into traffic if it meant protecting his cash cow. He doesn't want Jill putting a bug in her siblings' heads to start asking for a bigger piece of the pie. He wants his kids complacent and dumb.

[crazy8s]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Boob would push a paraplegic into traffic if it meant protecting his cash cow. He doesn't want Jill putting a bug in her siblings' heads to start asking for a bigger piece of the pie. He wants his kids complacent and dumb.

treating Jill this way also sends a message to the others - this is what will happen to you.

separated from your family, no support, no sister moms no sitting at the TTH on the couches all day. no money.

see derick driving for grubhub?? Is that what you want?? that will be you and your spouse if you question my decisions

[JoanArc]

12 minutes ago, OpieTaylor said:

Does JB even believe all the IBLP/Gothard theories anymore?

 Like he ever did! True belief is for the little people that you control. 

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

treating Jill this way also sends a message to the others - this is what will happen to you.

separated from your family, no support, no sister moms no sitting at the TTH on the couches all day. no money.

see derick driving for grubhub?? Is that what you want?? that will be you and your spouse if you question my decisions

JB thinks of his family as a business, and Jill got "fired" from the business. She can't be put on display as the perfect fundie wife anymore. 

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

As I mentioned on here earlier, I'm well aware from personal experience that not every victim is believed. I guess my problem is the Duggars lied about this pervasively on national television, so I find their claims they did much of anything suspect on its own. If they had just admitted, "This was horrible and we didn't know what to do and in retrospect we could have done things differently," I'd actually be sympathetic to them. I'm sure it was awful to be a parent in that situation. But the fact they have told their daughters this happens in every family and it was no big deal--I really don't think that is any better than not believing them. And again I'm not sure they did believe them to begin with since there were multiple incidents before they took action. I just feel like it is inaccurate to state they believed the girls and took action without also noting they took their sweet time in doing so.

 

 

I agree with all of this. I hate that I sound like I'm defending them. I'm just saying that in this evil world where too many parents ignore the fact that their son is an abuser, it's not insignificant that they actually believed that he was and took (wrong-headed, insufficient) steps to stop him. That doesn't cancel out all of the many ways that they were wrong about what they believe about the causes of sexual abuse and a whole lot of other things. And their motivations were always about Josh and his redemption rather than the safety and well-being of their daughters. 

[libgirl2]

I often wonder what would have happened if Josh molested boys?

[queenanne]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:09 PM, galaxychaser said:

Such big teeth on both of them. 

Last picture: why post it. It’s a mug with cocoa in it.

Sammy's hat though 😂

Edited December 29, 2019 by queenanne

[galaxychaser]

Sammy can be a Instagram star. Kid got side eye for days. 

[Future Cat Lady]

I love Derick spilling the beans, but at the same time, I think it's wrong.

He's not a Duggar. He didn't grow up in that family and doesn't have all the facts.

We also don't know how Jill feels about it because she hasn't said anything. Had she ever said anything negative about her family? Does Derick have her permission to say all this? 

If he really wants to write a tell-all, he should stop giving out the info on SM. And he should write it with Jill. It's her family and her story, not his. 

Frankly, I think it would be better for D&J's sanity to stay off social media altogether. 

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

 

Frankly, I think it would be better for D&J's sanity to stay off social media altogether. 

I've wondered this ever since Derick said they had to stop filming for their sanity. I think there's some truth to what he is saying about filming affecting their quality of life, but doesn't being so high-profile on social media, to the point your actions trigger write-ups in national publications, do the same thing?

[SMama]

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm still confused why Jill has to ask Boobs permission to go to the TTH ? I understand he is upset with Derick, but what did Jill do ?

She is married to Derick and is getting the Cousin Amy treatment.  You are corrupt and we don’t want you influencing the kids at home. Especially your buddy group.

[Temperance]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I agree with all of this. I hate that I sound like I'm defending them. I'm just saying that in this evil world where too many parents ignore the fact that their son is an abuser, it's not insignificant that they actually believed that he was and took (wrong-headed, insufficient) steps to stop him. That doesn't cancel out all of the many ways that they were wrong about what they believe about the causes of sexual abuse and a whole lot of other things. And their motivations were always about Josh and his redemption rather than the safety and well-being of their daughters. 

As far as I remember, the incidents happened over years and they did nothing in the beginning. Then someone (?) called the cops and reported the abuse at which point the police report (the one In Touch found) was filed. At that point they had to do something or face further investigation, etc. So they sent Josh away and tried to make it look like they were doing something. They tried to downplay it to save their reputations and minimized the abuse. If it hadn't been reported to the police, they might have continued to ignore it. 

[lascuba]

12 minutes ago, Temperance said:

As far as I remember, the incidents happened over years and they did nothing in the beginning. Then someone (?) called the cops and reported the abuse at which point the police report (the one In Touch found) was filed. At that point they had to do something or face further investigation, etc. So they sent Josh away and tried to make it look like they were doing something. They tried to downplay it to save their reputations and minimized the abuse. If it hadn't been reported to the police, they might have continued to ignore it. 

That's not how it happened. The abuse took place over, I think, 2 years (well, the abuse that we know of, at any rate). The first time JB/M found out about it, they "dealt with it" somehow--probably beat Josh or something. The following year they found it he hadn't stopped and that's when they did the church elders/friendly state trooper (who turns out was into child porn)/friend who works in construction/send Josh away and shave his head route. According to the family, the abuse never happened again after that. Three years later, they were in Chicago preparing to go on Oprah, when Oprah's team received a letter detailing the abuse and the cover-up. Oprah forwards the letter to some Arkansas state authority--I don't recall if it was the police or DCF. That's when the investigation into the abuse took place. Josh was already 18 and refused to be questioned by police, but the parents and minor children were all interviewed by police--those were the records that were published by In Touch. The statute of limitations had run out so no charges were filed, but the family was referred to DCF and went to family court. Those records were destroyed after the In Touch story. 

[JustRosie]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

That's not how it happened. The abuse took place over, I think, 2 years (well, the abuse that we know of, at any rate). The first time JB/M found out about it, they "dealt with it" somehow--probably beat Josh or something. The following year they found it he hadn't stopped and that's when they did the church elders/friendly state trooper (who turns out was into child porn)/friend who works in construction/send Josh away and shave his head route. According to the family, the abuse never happened again after that. Three years later, they were in Chicago preparing to go on Oprah, when Oprah's team received a letter detailing the abuse and the cover-up. Oprah forwards the letter to some Arkansas state authority--I don't recall if it was the police or DCF. That's when the investigation into the abuse took place. Josh was already 18 and refused to be questioned by police, but the parents and minor children were all interviewed by police--those were the records that were published by In Touch. The statute of limitations had run out so no charges were filed, but the family was referred to DCF and went to family court. Those records were destroyed after the In Touch story. 

How did the records get leaked?  Who did it?  I wondered at the time, but never heard who had done it. 

[GeeGolly]

According to Google the abuse happened during a 9 month period starting in 2002 into 2003. Josh was sent away in March of 2003. Three years later, in 2006, someone called the abuse hotline and reports Josh. The family is interviewed/investigated by the police the same year.

In 2015, in a matter of just a few months, InTouch publishes the police report, the girls get interviewed by Megan Kelly and Josh is outed in the Ashley Madison scandal.

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, Namaste said:

How did the records get leaked?  Who did it?  I wondered at the time, but never heard who had done it. 

In Touch put in a Freedom of Information request to either the city or county (sorry, I don't remember which entity handled the police report). 

[JustRosie]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

In Touch put in a Freedom of Information request to either the city or county (sorry, I don't remember which entity handled the police report). 

Thank you!

was it a mistake that juvenile records were released,  or was it ok to release those?

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Namaste said:

Thank you!

was it a mistake that juvenile records were released,  or was it ok to release those?

Yes and yes, depending on what you read. The only thing any article agreed on was the reports were so poorly redacted it was very easy to identify the victims.

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Thank you!

was it a mistake that juvenile records were released,  or was it ok to release those?

They weren't juvie records--it was a standard police report. If they'd actually dealt with it when it happened, it may have ended up as a juvenile record. 

[JustRosie]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes and yes, depending on what you read. The only thing any article agreed on was the reports were so poorly redacted it was very easy to identify the victims.

Thank you!

[Zella]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes and yes, depending on what you read. The only thing any article agreed on was the reports were so poorly redacted it was very easy to identify the victims.

Yeah I really do think they should have redacted the part that the victims included JB and Michelle's daughters. People would have speculated, but there wouldn't have been confirmation. 

[lascuba]

2 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Thank you!

was it a mistake that juvenile records were released,  or was it ok to release those?

Well, THAT has been quite the subject of debate! From what I understand, technically it was legal to release those records because it wasn't a criminal investigation (statute of limitations). The irony is that if JB and Michelle had gone to the police when the abuse happened, those records would have never been released. 

[JustRosie]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

They weren't juvie records--it was a standard police report. If they'd actually dealt with it when it happened, it may have ended up as a juvenile record. 

I get it now. Thank you. 

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

Well, THAT has been quite the subject of debate! From what I understand, technically it was legal to release those records because it wasn't a criminal investigation (statute of limitations). The irony is that if JB and Michelle had gone to the police when the abuse happened, those records would have never been released. 

Thank you!

[Zella]

Incidentally, I don't think the Duggars were being singled out with the poor redactions. You can get a lot of court/police documents Arkansas Court Connect, depending on the county, and I am constantly astounded by how many records and the information that make it on there unredacted for normal, everyday people too. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Zella

[DangerousMinds]

Also, the Duggars were not public figures at the time of the police report.

Edited December 30, 2019 by DangerousMinds

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Also, the Duggars were not celebrities at the time of the police report.

Well, they'd been invited on Oprah, so they weren't anonymous nobodies. But I was referring more to the redactions made in 2015 when the report was released. 

Edited to add: Jim Bob was also a state politician/running for office/had just run for office at the time of some of the abuse. I am not sure when the first specials aired. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Incidentally, I don't think the Duggars were being singled out with the poor redactions. You can get a lot of court/police documents Arkansas Court Connect, depending on the county, and I am constantly astounded by how many records and the information that make it on there unredacted for normal, everyday people too. 

From what I remember, there's a time limit on how quickly documents must be released once requested. I don't know why an extension of time wasn't requested, but apparently the redactions were rushed.

Kind of scary that InTouch had the upper hand with the city and law enforcement.

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I often wonder what would have happened if Josh molested boys?

Let’s hope he doesn’t molest boys.

Edited December 30, 2019 by galaxychaser

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

From what I remember, there's a time limit on how quickly documents must be released once requested. I don't know why an extension of time wasn't requested, but apparently the redactions were rushed.

Kind of scary that InTouch had the upper hand with the city and law enforcement.

Oh that's right--I forgot about that. I wonder what the time limit is on that. I'm actually wondering if the records were available all along on Court Connect. Probably not because older records often aren't, but newer ones are uploaded just as a matter of course in a lot of counties. I've seen everything from detailed psych evals to divorce settlements that were ruled as to remain undisclosed to minor names to social security numbers unredacted on the records there, and they are viewable without FOI. I do see some stuff redacted, but it seems really random what gets marked out and what doesn't.  

Edited December 30, 2019 by Zella

[kokapetl]

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I have no idea if this is true, but I read somewhere that after Josh returned from his 6 month punishment he slept at the Mold House. He was filmed as living at the TTH, but didn't sleep there.

Josh living at the mold house was my theory. Josh married Anna in September 2008, but the late Mary Duggar bought  the mold house from Michelle’s father in July 2007, and Josh appealed a Department of Human Services decision in 2007. My guess is Human Services forbade Josh from living with his victims and that’s what he appealed. 

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

Let’s hope he doesn’t molest boys.

Let’s hope he doesn’t molest anyone.

[QuinnInND]

On 12/28/2019 at 2:16 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I know sexual abuse victims often have severe hangups surrounding sex/intimacy that last a lifetime. 

Or, as in my case, the victim (me) goes in the opposite direction. Becomes a porn star and an escort. Because they don't know anything else. I really hope Jilly gets some counseling at some point. And I want to punch SexPest in his smirking mouth. POS. 

2 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Let’s hope he doesn’t molest anyone.

Let's hope he doesn't molest his own kids. 

[Barb23]

7 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I often wonder what would have happened if Josh molested boys?

I would love to know how JB & M explained what Josh did to John David, Joe & Josiah at the time.  During their interview Jill & Jessa said their parents talked to the children individually about what had happened.  Was Josh banned from the boy's dorm at the very beginning when he told his parents the first time?

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Josh living at the mold house was my theory. Josh married Anna in September 2008, but the late Mary Duggar bought  the mold house from Michelle’s father in July 2007, and Josh appealed a Department of Human Services decision in 2007. My guess is Human Services forbade Josh from living with his victims and that’s what he appealed. 

That makes sense. 

[GeeGolly]

Jill hasn't posted anything in 6 days. Is that typical for her?

[PikaScrewChu]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

From what I remember, there's a time limit on how quickly documents must be released once requested. I don't know why an extension of time wasn't requested, but apparently the redactions were rushed.

Kind of scary that InTouch had the upper hand with the city and law enforcement.

It's rare jurisdictions deal with FOIA requests on this scale. Normally it is "I was in a car crash, please send me the police report" kind of requests. I'm very doubtful any of the people involved were trained to deal with this sort of FOIA request and the tabloids (not just InTouch) know it. I'm sorting through some data I was able to get through an FOIA request and there are things that you think would be retracted but weren't. 

Privacy laws are woefully behind the times. I don't think they will ever catch up. 

Now onwards. Derick's ranting over the holidays is making the rounds on the tabloids now. Happy New Year Dillards!

[Tikichick]

On 12/29/2019 at 10:33 AM, lascuba said:

Considering the "crying" didn't start until she was talking about In Touch, and she was all giggles when talking about Josh, it seems that's exactly what JB would have wanted. 

Gods know I loathe JB and Michelle, but I think @GeeGolly's point is that a lot of parents--non-religious, educated people, even--do even less that they did. And it's true. Many parents do not want to believe it and won't address sexual abuse at all, allowing it to continue right under their noses. 

I've always felt that if the Duggars weren't famous at all and for whatever reason the story got out, it should have been treated as a private matter considering Josh's age at the time. It's the fact that they sought out fame at the same time that they were dealing with Josh's actions, that they claimed to be a  model family and that the world would be so much better if everyone followed their belief something, that makes them deserve scorn. 

IME the most common response by far is head in sand followed by deny, deny, deny.  For most families this seems to boil down to being unable to comprehend such a thing actually happened and/or what it means going forward so they merely shut down. 

I've personally witnessed a former child victim move through many phases of response when she was initially told and ultimately walked in on her own toddler being abused.  This mother loved her children deeply and never wanted them to suffer what she had as a child.  It was simultaneously dumbfounding, sickening and heartbreaking watching the mother move through the phases of recognition, understanding, response and ultimately acceptance of what had happened.   

While the Duggars may have initially shut down, the fact they did take action in regard to subsequent incidents means they genuinely comprehended there was a serious problem.  That is what makes their actions particularly rephrensible.       

[galaxychaser]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill hasn't posted anything in 6 days. Is that typical for her?

No she usually posts daily. 
 

[doodlebug]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 10:53 AM, lascuba said:

Oh, I'm not saying it was commendable, but it sounds like they actually believed that it was happening and did things that fit their (stupid, dangerous) religious views to "fix" it. I agree that what they actually did--likely beating the fuck out of Josh, brothers and sisters can't be close, even more stringent rules for how the girls act and dress--weren't the right way to go, but the fact that they tried to do something, because they actually believed that Josh was molesting girls, is pretty significant considering just how many parents out there will dismiss the idea that one child is abusing others out of hand. That's not as common as we'd like to think. 

Yes, they actually believed their daughters.  They BELIEVED their daughters, including a 5 year old, caused their own brother to sexually molest them. And they told them so and made them announce that they forgave their brother for molesting them while simultaneously shaming them for being the cause of it. There are plenty of parents who discover their kids have been molested and turn it around on the kid and that is not right, either.  In some ways, better they hadn't believed them.

The Duggar beliefs are akin to those of people who claim that it is a woman's fault she got raped because she bared too much skin or danced too suggestively, or drank too much or had the nerve to go out at night without an escort.  They are reprehensible and there is no way to spin it otherwise.

[doodlebug]

22 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Original sin is a Catholic doctrine.  And yet they don't recommend addressing it by blanket training and disciplining infants and very young toddlers as the Duggar's practice it.

Nope, we heathen Catholics take the baby to church and baptize it when it is around 2 months old and Original Sin is erased.  Catholic doctrine tells us that children are innocents and incapable of sin.  It is only once a child is older and knows the difference between right and wrong and can control their behavior well enough to avoid doing the wrong thing that a child can sin.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

No she usually posts daily. 
 

Maybe she figures Derick is posting enough for the both of them.  Although I hope it is because she and the boys are having so much Christmastime fun, that she doesn't feel the need.

[kokapetl]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Yes, they actually believed their daughters.  They BELIEVED their daughters, including a 5 year old, caused their own brother to sexually molest them. And they told them so and made them announce that they forgave their brother for molesting them while simultaneously shaming them for being the cause of it. There are plenty of parents who discover their kids have been molested and turn it around on the kid and that is not right, either.  In some ways, better they hadn't believed them.

The Duggar beliefs are akin to those of people who claim that it is a woman's fault she got raped because she bared too much skin or danced too suggestively, or drank too much or had the nerve to go out at night without an escort.  They are reprehensible and there is no way to spin it otherwise.

Can you point me to any evidence that JimChelle blamed their daughters for causing their own molestations by Josh? As far as I can tell, Josh was the one banished to the labour camp for behavioral correction. 

 

[Trillium]

36 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Maybe she figures Derick is posting enough for the both of them.  Although I hope it is because she and the boys are having so much Christmastime fun, that she doesn't feel the need.

I hope he cleared his rant with her first. It’s one thing for them dealing with Boob and whatever’s going on privately. It’s another thing to make it Very public. I really hope that she gave him ok for him to spill.  If not, yikes. 

[GeeGolly]

Derick had at least two more posts. One stating that JB is the only one who has ever had a contract w/TLC, and the other stating the other siblings may not speak up for various reasons.

[doodlebug]

21 hours ago, Namaste said:

How did the records get leaked?  Who did it?  I wondered at the time, but never heard who had done it. 

We also know that many people in their town were aware of the situation with Josh, probably due to the girls having to stand up at church and talk about it and publicly forgive their brother.  

There was a woman called Alice who posted the details online years and years ago without the specifics.  She said that Josh was involved in some sort of inappropriate teenage behavior and it was brought to the church and the details given there.  She also knew he had been sent away for a while as punishment.  She either didn't know or didn't want to give the details of the molestation and many of us thought it was something stupid like Josh was caught kissing a girlfriend or something similarly innocuous.  When the In Touch story was released, it fit the timing and details of what Alice had posted years earlier.

We've been told that a gay couple who live near them and were angry that Michelle was doing robocalls in favor of an anti-gay piece of legislation; notified the editors of In Touch of the story and where they could go to find out the details.

Edited December 30, 2019 by doodlebug

[JustRosie]

6 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

We also know that many people in their town were aware of the situation with Josh, probably due to the girls having to stand up at church and talk about it and publicly forgive their brother.  

There was a woman called Alice who posted the details online years and years ago without the specifics.  She said that Josh was involved in some sort of inappropriate teenage behavior and it was brought to the church and the details given there.  She also knew he had been sent away for a while as punishment.  She either didn't know or didn't want to give the details of the molestation and many of us thought it was something stupid like Josh was caught kissing a girlfriend or something similarly innocuous.  When the In Touch story was released, it fit the timing and details of what Alice had posted years earlier.

We've been told that a gay couple who live near them and were angry that Michelle was doing robocalls in favor of an anti-gay piece of legislation; notified the editors of In Touch of the story and where they could go to find out the details.

Thank you. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, kokapetl said:

Can you point me to any evidence that JimChelle blamed their daughters for causing their own molestations by Josh? As far as I can tell, Josh was the one banished to the labour camp for behavioral correction. 

 

Read the Gothard approved information on sexual abuse on the preceding page.  We know that JB and M were very involved in his teachings; using his curriculum for homeschooling, attending multiple conferences and speaking at them.  Please point me to the evidence that JB and M DIDN'T follow Gothard's teachings on the subject of sexual abuse.

Josh was banished to the labor camp. The girls were locked in their communal bedroom, took to sleeping fully clothed and not permitted to associate with their brothers including forbidden from playing hide and seek.  They were punished, too.

[Portia]

10 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Read the Gothard approved information on sexual abuse on the preceding page.  We know that JB and M were very involved in his teachings; using his curriculum for homeschooling, attending multiple conferences and speaking at them.  Please point me to the evidence that JB and M DIDN'T follow Gothard's teachings on the subject of sexual abuse.

Josh was banished to the labor camp. The girls were locked in their communal bedroom, took to sleeping fully clothed and not permitted to associate with their brothers including forbidden from playing hide and seek.  They were punished, too.

You're correct that Gothard's teachings on the subject are distressingly clear. However, with regard to the statement that I bolded above? You can't prove a negative. Respectfully, I must point out that that sort of argument is generally considered faulty. 

[QuinnInND]

Hopefully there's nothing wrong with the kids or anything, causing Jilly to not post on IG. 

[mythoughtis]

3 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Can you point me to any evidence that JimChelle blamed their daughters for causing their own molestations by Josh? As far as I can tell, Josh was the one banished to the labour camp for behavioral correction. 

 

Think about the whole Nike phrase.  It’s meant to tell boys and men to look down when a woman walks by dressed differently than the Duggar modestly rules state.  The men are supposed to look down less they be so overcome with lust that they cannot  control themselves.  As if men are incapable of keeping their hands to themselves. Meaning that it’s the woman’s fault that the man is aroused. 
I guess we should applaud the Duggars because they at least don’t pick up stones to punish the women with?  

Edited December 31, 2019 by mythoughtis