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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!


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Shout out to everyone participating in the conversation about Jill’s miscarriage/stillbirth. You’re navigating a difficult topic with respect and thoughtfulness and your contributions are kind, considerate, constructive and informative. 

Thank you. 💚💚

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I seriously cannot believe the constant press People in particular has been giving this pregnancy. You'd think nobody had ever been pregnant before. When the Duggars are rivaling Kate Middleton's pregnancy for press, there is something seriously weird.

 

Also, I am now hiding 19 Kids & Counting (I think it's TLC-run) from my Facebook because I sooo do not feel like seeing Jill's weekly "bump" (I use the word loosely) pictures. 12 weeks 3 days! 12 weeks 5 days! DO NOT CARE.

Edited by JessDVD
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Seems like that article explaining their registry choices is a little damage control. "See? We're not assholes, we thought it would be cute to register for Dr. Pepper! *giggle*"

 

There is only one reason to publicize a registry: in hope of getting gifts from it!

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Their reasoning for including sodas on the registry is just plain stupid. They're going to have to turn on a light when they get up with the baby at night, so should they register for light bulbs, too? 

 

I get the heebie-jeebies hearing her use the plural pronoun "their" paired with the singular noun "baby."

Also, Fanta and Gatorade don't contain caffeine.

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Her stupid chalkboard pictures are already on my "over it" list. It's basically just a picture of her because I don't see a bump.

 

I thought higher of Derek and Cathy. Cathy got them 2 car seats...in case they have twins? What? She couldn't wait to get them in a few weeks?

 

This is going to be a very long 6 months.  God help us.  Jill has officially turned into a Grade A Famewhore of the 10th degree.

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Her stupid chalkboard pictures are already on my "over it" list. It's basically just a picture of her because I don't see a bump.

 

I thought higher of Derek and Cathy. Cathy got them 2 car seats...in case they have twins? What? She couldn't wait to get them in a few weeks?

 

This is going to be a very long 6 months.  God help us.  Jill has officially turned into a Grade A Famewhore of the 10th degree.

it is her first grandchild and she's just been through a life threatening illness.  I expect she's incredibly excited and happy about her firstborn's firstborn.  I'd be buying stuff too.

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The fact that all the bump pics are on random days is getting on my nerves. Why can't she just do a "13 weeks" pic rather than "13 weeks, 1 day"? She hasn't done a pic on an exact week mark yet. I'm shocked it isn't tracked down to the minute and second.

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I know a girl who did the whole weekly selfie with a chalkboard thing throughout her pregnancy. I thought it was very tacky in an attention-grabbing way. I haven't looked at Jill's. Does she have some cutesy bit of trivia written artistically on the chalkboard each time? Girl, that is so 2012. Find some new pins on Pinterest.

Edited by Abstract
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Her stupid chalkboard pictures are already on my "over it" list. It's basically just a picture of her because I don't see a bump.

 

I thought higher of Derek and Cathy. Cathy got them 2 car seats...in case they have twins? What? She couldn't wait to get them in a few weeks?

 

This is going to be a very long 6 months.  God help us.  Jill has officially turned into a Grade A Famewhore of the 10th degree.

BBM, don't most of us get 2 car seats anyway -- one for each parental car? 

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I was at Kirklands today and found a chalk board. I almost took a pic of myself with it and wrote, "not pregnant...just food."

Love it!! Count me in with the others who are over the chalk board updates. On the recent one (probably updated since then because I think it was done last week) she was definitely standing with her back arched making her stomach stick out. I didn't say "bump" because I don't see one either. Another thing that irks me is she always has her hand on her stomach in the People photos.
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it is her first grandchild and she's just been through a life threatening illness.  I expect she's incredibly excited and happy about her firstborn's firstborn.  I'd be buying stuff too.

 

 

 

BBM, don't most of us get 2 car seats anyway -- one for each parental car?

 

 

They weren't just regular car seats.  They are travel car seats that snap on luggage or something.  I've never seen such a thing, but they still have 3 other car seats on their registry. And Jill said she got them 2, in case they have twins.  Sick/excited or not, I think that's a silly reason to buy 2.  I'm sure Jill is going to be getting a sonogram real soon to see if there's one or two babies.  The baby(ies) isn't going to be needing the car seat between now and then.  I would have preferred saving that extra money spent on a second travel car seat and putting it toward a playpen or high chair.  But that's just me.

 

I also expect Jill to be buying her own sonogram equipment here in the next week or two and doing daily sonograms.  And posting them online.

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The reasoning behind putting the Dr. Pepper on the registry is stupid. Unless it's just a joke (which it didn't sound like it was) items like caffeinated drinks to keep you awake are things that you should be able to afford to buy yourself if you are going to be responsible for paying for another human life.

Also, I didn't watch the video, but in the thumbnail that came up, it looked like Derick's hand was squarely on Jill's butt. LOL.

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If Jill will be breast feeding, then why would she want a caffeinated drink? Also, if you are getting up in the middle of the night, why would you pour yourself a glass of soda? Wouldn't you want to just go back to sleep once you've fed the baby? Idiots.

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I'm sure that Jill and Derrick know by now if they are having twins or not. There would be no reason not to have a six week sonogram that would say. Unlike her family, her husband had a real job with actual benefits that would cover this.

They know.

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I'm well aware that it's common for the plural pronoun to be used with a singular noun when the gender is unknown. And what I tell my English composition students is that it's lazy writing and can nearly always be avoided with a simple rewrite that does NOT require the clumsy "he/she." (It has become a common thing for people to write "u" instead of "you," too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to accept it in formal writing.) Jill was probably speaking, so I should cut her a bit of slack, but I am crabby because of her weak explanation of the Dr. Pepper thing! ;-) 

 

English teachers of the world . . . amalgamate!!!!

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Is writing everything on a cutesy chalkboard a Pinterest thing? That's a site I just avoid so I don't know. I can see taking those pictures for your own personal keepsakes, but posting them to social media every single week? Meh.

I actually do know a couple that did exactly that except the expectant mom stood in front of a giant whiteboard and all their Facebook friends were treated to not only the week count, but facts about fetal development for that week. Then when the baby was born, the baby was placed in front of the whiteboard with length and weight stats and infant development stats for the whole first year. They might have tapered off to monthly updates as the year went on, but I am not making this up.

And unlike Jill, they weren't famous and having People magazine document their procreation.

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I'm so glad I'm not the only one over the chalkboard trend.  I've blocked people from my FB feed for it.  As Libby96 said, if you want to keep the photos for your self or you family, fine.  But no need to post them to FB every week.

I have as well. I don't need daily and weekly updates on the pregnancy of someone I went to high school with but haven't seen in fifteen years.  I took biology in 9th grade and A&P when I was a senior, I know where babies come from and how they develop, so please spare me the progress reports.

 

Sometimes I have dreams of murdering whoever invented Pinterest.....

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Regarding her frequent "bump" pictures, Jill has a weekly "ministry"....proving over and over and over again how life begins at conception and that this is an living human being, everyone!  No doubt she is trying to be "encouraging", and, see! you can be showered with all kinds of good stuff if you only be like her!

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Ugh baby bump pics. The bane of my Facebook feed. It's not that I'm not happy for my friends who are pregnant. I am. But I also don't need to see all their pregnancy pics and facts and blurbs every. single. day.!!!!! I get they're pregnant and excited. But enough *cutesy* shit is enough. Maybe make a separate "baby list" including close friends and family members for those kind of constant updates, instead of all 400 of your friends. Most of which aren't anywhere near as interested as you think. 

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My SIL drank Pepsi when she was breast feeding. Then complained that the baby was "hyper" & "never slept". She was also putting Pepsi in the kid's sippy cup by 1 yr.

SMH

People who give little kids soda (and caffeinated soda) deserve a special spot in hell.  It's so bad for their teeth and health! My older brother used to put his kid to bed with a bottle of apple juice. No surprise that the poor kid ended up with rotten baby teeth.

 

I drank Dr. Pepper when I was pregnant with my second kid. I had a 2 1/2 year old at the time and I was really tired. Thankfully, I gave birth to a fairly mellow, sedate kid so I don't think it did too much harm!

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I'm assuming the Dr Pepper is for Derrick, so the caffeine issue is moot. It was a stupid joke, and I don't think he fully understands yet what it means to live inside a bubble where even an innocently stupid joke you might say to your wife is something that gets exposed to all the world.

Edited by GEML
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People who give little kids soda (and caffeinated soda) deserve a special spot in hell.  It's so bad for their teeth and health! My older brother used to put his kid to bed with a bottle of apple juice. No surprise that the poor kid ended up with rotten baby teeth.

 

I drank Dr. Pepper when I was pregnant with my second kid. I had a 2 1/2 year old at the time and I was really tired. Thankfully, I gave birth to a fairly mellow, sedate kid so I don't think it did too much harm!

OH - silly me! I feel bad for coming down so hard on them for the Dr. Pepper on the registry!  Now I realize that they were doing something nice for Ben!  It's to give to slave boy Ben when he cleans the toilets.  I feel so bad now!!! :)

http://www.wikihow.com/Clean-a-Toilet-With-Coke

Edited by truthtalk2014
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I just visited the Duggar Family Blog site. There's a new Jilly chalkboard picture (13 weeks, 1 day) in case anyone is interested - NOT!

They did a recap of this week's episodes & people can comment on them. Usually the comments are Pro-Duggar praising the wonderful Christian family. But this week there were some negative comments: Ben's having to clean toilets, Anna's baby voice, Jessa's concern about her appearance, etc. I was really surprised. Looks like some of their loyal followers are finally seeing thru their facade.

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The whole "sleep training" thing might come from a book called "On Becoming Baby Wise" which was written by a guy named Gary Ezzo and was very popular in the 90's. Basically it tells you that babies are using their selfish sin nature when they cry and are trying to manipulate you. Therefore, you need to put your baby on a strict eat, play, sleep schedule from the moment of birth. He says NEVER rock your baby to sleep or let them nurse until they doze off. ALWAYS put them in the crib (in their own room) drowsy but awake.

No, he is not a medical doctor. Yes, some babies have become dehydrated and malnourished on this plan because tiny newborns NEED to be fed on demand. And while I do see value in helping an older baby learning to settle themselves to sleep, you are pushing an infant to do something they are not developmentally ready to do if you try to schedule everything from day one.

Sorry for the rant. This just bugs me because when I was a young mom, this was one of the books that was trendy in Christian circles. I didn't start putting my baby down awake until they were bigger and guess what? Like all kids they learned to sleep through the night.

I hope Jill uses some of her midwifery knowledge and feeds her little one on demand the first few months. And if you don't spend some time cuddling your sleeping baby, you are missing out.

 

I'm sorry if this isn't the way to respond to certain aspects of a post, I can't figure out how to break up one person's post.

 

I think it has been a while since you've read BabyWise.  That first sentence I bolded is not only totally inflammatory, it's not true.  Babies don't know any better, so it's up to the parents to *gradually* guide them into normal, human, outside-the-womb life.  (They are definitely not manipulating, and I really wish you wouldn't have implied that parents who read BabyWise think their babies are sinful and selfish.)

 

He specifically says there is no inflexible *schedule*, just a routine.  Eat, awake, sleep, just like adults have wake, breakfast, work, lunch, work, dinner, sleep.  We don't wake up at 2am and eat dinner, then go back to sleep for 3 hours, then wake up and go to the office for an hour before heading home to sleep for 45 minutes before lunch.  And we certainly don't have a different routine every single day.

 

The goal is to gently space things to get to every three hours for feeding (which incidentally is the optimal feeding schedule for preemies), but specifically says that if the baby wakes up hungry at 2.5 hours, the first rule is always FEED THE BABY.  If *some* babies (how many of the millions that have used this system?) got malnourished, then their mothers were NOT following the book.

 

The idea is to help them get most of their calories during the day, so  A) they get their days and nights straight (because they are awake all night and sleep all day in the womb)  B) to *allow* them to continue what they already do at birth - fall asleep on their own - instead of re-teaching them that the only place you sleep is in your mom's arms or the swing.  You won't need to teach an older baby to settle on its own if you don't teach an infant that only mom/dad/swing can put them to sleep.   and C) that the parents are not woken up every 45-90 minutes all night long for years because they will die of exhaustion.

 

I will admit that BabyWise is more simplistic and the things he says will not work for every baby directly out of the book.  I much prefer "Secrets of the Baby Whisperer" because she advocates the same routine with a very heavy emphasis on knowing your individual baby and listening to his/her particular cues, and what to do in many of the situations that aren't "by the book."

 

For myself, I did get lots of time to snuggle my boys while they were sleeping.  He never says don't ever hold your baby to sleep, he says, don't do it exclusively.  I taught my boys to sleep in the crib in the dark, in my arms, in the carseat in broad daylight, in the playpen, etc, and they could do it because I first allowed them to continue putting themselves to sleep without my interference.

 

I have many girlfriends who followed relaxed routines, fed their babies mostly during the day, *definitely* got a ton of sleepy snuggles in, and their babies were sleeping 6-8 hours at a stretch by 8 weeks, which made for happy babies and ecstatic moms!  I have a few other girlfriends who were cool with letting the baby sleep most of the day and take feedings most of the night.  One friend was up every hour, every night with her one-year-old.  She said she liked it but she sure looked tired to me!  I know myself well enough to know I could not do that.  No matter how much I love my sons, I would be a zombie and an unfit mother on that schedule.  So it's good that there are ideas that work for every family out there.

I'm just posting this because "sleep training" isn't like "blanket training" as it might seem in a thread about the Duggars.  It can be controversial, but *everything* about mothering is competitively controversial these days!  It's not child abuse like blanket training is!

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Happy to see I am not the only one SO SICK of Jill and her pregnancy.  I do not understand why the media is so fascinated by her and her pregnancy.  Somehow I feel she is becoming as smug as Smuggar.  

This is shallow of me, but I sure hope her baby looks more like her.  I just find Derrick to be very unattractive.  

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Wonder if the reason they are still 'deciding' about sleep training is because Derick doesn't want to do it, and just wants to gradually work the baby into a regular schedule as others in his circle of family, friends both here and in Nepal have.

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Granted, I think there is a lot of oversharing with this pregnancy, but setting up a fake registry to make fun of people on a reality tv show is over the top. The show gives us plenty of stuff to snark about without resorting to childish antics like this. Some people have waaay too much time on their hands. YMMV. 

 

This isn't aimed at you Sewsumi, obviously :-).  

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The registry Jill *really* wanted to set up. Check it out now before some leghumper finds it and tattles. FTR, it's obviously set up to be silly; the due date is a day off.

 

http://www.walmart.com/giftregistry/gr_detail.do?registryId=86212624464

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I'm a little disappointed there was no Astroglide or "personal massagers" on that list. Or you know, whatever you can buy at Walmart that passes as a sex toy.

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I think it has been a while since you've read BabyWise.  That first sentence I bolded is not only totally inflammatory, it's not true.

 

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've only read the secular version of Gary Ezzo's book.  Babywise took his other materials, titled Growing Kids God's Way, and stripped out the theological statements in order to make money off non-religious parents in addition to fundie parents.  The OP's statement is NOT incorrect.  The Babywise methodology's recommendations are based in Gary Ezzo's personal view of an inborn sin nature that controls the babies and therefore he teaches the parents to use Pavlovian methods in order to impose their own control until such time as whatever it is that's supposed to control the sin nature takes over.  I HAVE read Babywise.  At least, I started to and then I put it down when it started giving false information about the biology of how a mother's milk supply works.  Later versions of the book claim that it is a "routine" and not a "schedule" but then when you read through the instructional examples in the book, they obviously contradict that assertion.  Babies aren't born knowing nothing; they are born knowing when they are hungry, when they are full, when they are tired, when they want their parents, etc. and they also have the ability to communicate those needs if you learn how to read the body language of your individual child.  The American Academy of Pediatrics issued a warning against the use of Babywise here http://aapnews.aappublications.org/content/14/4/21.abstract (the full article is behind a paywall).

 

At any rate, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the Duggars.  Based on statements that Michelle has made in other episodes (maybe the parade one?), I'm pretty sure she has not been using Babywise with the last several littles.  At least, not for feeding advice.  They may have been talking about Ferber or Weissbluth-style "sleep training" instead.

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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I'm a little disappointed there was no Astroglide or "personal massagers" on that list. Or you know, whatever you can buy at Walmart that passes as a sex toy.

 

Battery operated toothbrushes? 

 

I didn't say that... did I?

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Just to chime in on the sleep training comments - I went and read the Pearl books for myself, and I'm familiar with both the religious and secular Babywise methods. And it's true that what everyone posts about them is absolutely true (including the above discussion and the two versions) and I think a lot of us in the secular or even mainstream Christian/evangelical or even moderate reformed worlds would look at the religious versions of these books with great horror and firmly believe they venture on child abuse.

But I'd like to offer another perspective - these are books for people who are ALREADY using an enormous amount of corporal punishment on their children, even very young, and feel, as parents, that their hitting has crossed a line, that they (the parents) are out of control, or have anger management issues and are hurting their children.

So this IS, in a weird way, attempts to establish order and discipline on the parents in some ways much more than training the children. The children are still going to be physically hit, but in MOST cases, probably not as often, and perhaps not as brutally in some homes. That doesn't, I want to say again, make any of these methods appropriate. But it put them in a somewhat different light than I often see them written about.

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Fair enough, TomServo.  You are correct, I did not know there were earlier versions of the book, especially not with such controversial things as you and the original poster bring up.  I concede to your greater knowledge on Ezzo.  When I originally responded, of course I had no idea, because those things *aren't* in the book I read, as I so vehemently asserted.  :)  I will thrown down a big 'mea culpa' and admit that I guess it has been a while since I've read Babywise (blush), because it seems like not too long ago that my kiddos were little... (sigh)  I did read the most recent (and apparently most sanitized secular) version of Babywise, but only once with my first child.  So, reading back through my last post, I'm actually not sure what was actually from Babywise and what was not.  In any case, I am obviously appalled at the idea that anyone would look at their sweet newborn and even consider them to have a sinful, spiteful nature.

 

I don't actually recommend Babywise to mom friends, because it *is* rigid and open to misinterpretation, I understand that.  I still stand by the recommendation of the "Baby Whisperer" books though.  Despite the ridiculous name, I really appreciate that her primary goal is to get parents to really listen to their babies and observe them and get to know their individuality and needs, not try to make them into the baby they wish they had.  I totally agree that babies will indicate their needs if you are a loving parent who takes the time to get to know their cues. 

 

Sorry I went off last night, and especially in defense of a book I don't even care for all that much (and definitely don't now!)  I guess I saw the "spiteful, sinful" thing, didn't know it was true, and took it as a criticism of non-attachment-parenting parents.  Overreaction, probably, but it is a knee-jerk reaction for me to defend other parents like me who don't co-sleep, or offer milk as the lightning-fast primary solution for any whimper or cry.  Because usually it's us being attacked for not "loving" our children, and there are many misconceptions out there.  I don't do timed schedules, I don't do cry-it-out, I was an extremely flexible mom who really got to know her babies, I snuggled my babies until my arms gave out, but somehow parents like me get tarred with a bad brush that falls under the umbrella of "sleep training" as advocated by the hard-core authors.  I'm tired of having to point out that my kids are great kids who are healthy and happy, sleep well to this day, and are close and physically affectionate to both parents.  There are ways to help get some sleep for you and your baby that don't involve crying or depriving your baby of nutrition or love.

 

Probably not a big issue here at PTV, but hey, our outside experience sometimes flares up unexpectedly on the boards in off-topic ways, right?  ;)

Back on topic, Jill really is so naive that she would drop the phrase "sleep training" into a national interview with *People Magazine* like that.  Next thing you know, she'll talk about when she wants to get her epidural (no I'm just kidding, I know she was studying to be a midwife), whether she will circumcise her boys, and which baby formula and pacifiers she wants to try.  She hasn't yet realized that there are mommy wars about everything, and as a public figure she is *really* opening herself up to a lot of criticism.  :)

Edited by SunDevil28
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I guess I wasn't totally informed, because I wasn't aware of the secularized version of Babywise. I certainly wasn't attacking non-attachment-style parenting, as I do not consider myself that type of parent. I am big on nursing, so it annoys me that Ezzo's methods can undermine that. For the most part, my babies slept in their own beds, but on the occasions we had them with us it was because we were tired! Anyway, my main point is that there are different ways to raise healthy kids, and this book made me feel guilty as if I was missing the only way. My kids are far past the baby stage now. I hope no hard feelings on this board, and I hope Jill and Derick decide together how to best care for their baby.

Edited by Libby96
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SunDevil, I don't care for BabyWise either when I read it 4-5 years ago. I found it to be very inflexible, doesn't take the needs of the *baby* in mind, just the wants of the mommy - I think what's most important is working out a groove that both are happy with, whatever that looks like - and I *hated* how he kept saying "The Babywise child will...", with clear "and all you moms out there with non-Babywise children are DOING IT WRONG", and all of his clearly made up children "examples" who do this or that because of purported "good" or "bad" parenting. Yeah, pass. He was really hip among my church mom friends at the time, but doesn't seem to be mentioned much anymore, what a shame...

 

And I agree also that it seems to me that Jill & Derick have not yet grasped, or possibly know and just don't care that everything they do now (especially if they continue with the interminable People and Us Weekly interviews) is opening themselves up for criticism. I'm sure to some degree anyone famous has to get to the point where they don't let that stuff bother them. Of course, this is coming off of seeing in my trending on FB for the last day, that apparently Prince Harry let a crying 5yo who couldn't see the Invictus Games, ride on his shoulders. Something innocuous that many people do without a second thought and nobody notices other than the parents of the kid... and he does it and it's on FB trending. I'm so glad nobody knows who I am...

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Back on topic, Jill really is so naive that she would drop the phrase "sleep training" into a national interview with *People Magazine* like that. Next thing you know, she'll talk about when she wants to get her epidural (no I'm just kidding, I know she was studying to be a midwife), whether she will circumcise her boys, and which baby formula and pacifiers she wants to try. She hasn't yet realized that there are mommy wars about everything, and as a public figure she is *really* opening herself up to a lot of criticism. :)

As a new parent and thus new to the mommy wars, WORD. Also, I have to ask, do these multiple car seats she's buying support extended rear facing?!?!!!!!?

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Ok, the BabyWise/sleep training conversation is derailing the thread and getting off-topic.  And since, as stated above, we don't have solid evidence that any of the Duggars ever has or is intending to use this method, discussion of it here is not relevant.  So please cease and desist on the topic.  Thanks

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Does anyone think that once their baby is born, that Jill and Derrick will provide a weekly picture and update on what Baby Dill is doing?It might be cute at first but weekly is over the top. Monthly would be a lot better. 

Also, I'll bet that they're now allowed to keep that house that they're in. Maybe Derrick has to make some kind of deal with Jim Bob, but I'm sure it won't be sold now that the first daughter is expecting her first child. How far away is their house from the Duggar compound?

 I also have to wonder if baby Dill is going to take time away from Josh and Anna's family after he/she arrives. The show will also focus on Jessa's wedding, of course

all the little ones at home and the wonderful things Michelle is doing with them, how will TLC split their airtime amongst all of them?Perhaps another reason Josh and Anna don't have a fourth baby announcement as of yet, they are  getting pushed aside for a couple of seasons while the Duggar girls are staying the main focus.

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