Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Guest]

I read on the NARM website that if candidates fail the exam, they can re-take it up to 4X a year for three years --12 times?!? -- before they have to submit additional paperwork to again be eligible for the test. I pray that there aren't people delivering babies who failed this test anywhere close to 12 times. 

 

I was re-watching the episode "Duggars Act Out" (Original Air Date 2011). Jill opts out of going on a family outing because, in Michelle's own words, "Jill was studying to take her midwifery test."

 

Either Jill has been studying to take this test for four years, or she's taken it before and not passed. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Guest

[GeeGolly]

Setting aside whether Derrick had any "right" to know about the molestation pre-marriage, I think it is deeply unfortunate that potential marriage partners are not allowed the opportunity and the privacy to really get to know each other intimately before marriage. And I'm not talking about physical intimacy. I am talking about real emotional intimacy. And the sad thing is, I think JB and M do this by design. They don't want potential suitors to get an honest glimpse into their messed up family until they've already signed on the dotted line and they're married. Point of no return. You're stuck for life -- no matter what skeletons come tumbling out of the family closet.  

 

Plus, while I can understand JB and M's desire to get to know a potential suitor in a family context, I have to say that hanging out with parents and siblings is not an accurate sampling of a person's true character in private since they will be on their "company behavior," as my grandmother would say, in public and around family. 

I agree, with the exception of JB & M not wanting potential suitors to get to see the whole picture. I believe they think their kids and potential suitors are getting to know each other better with this form of dating.  And up until scandal #2 (and maybe even still) JB & M think they are a great example of a Christian family.

[kandinski]

Birth Mare Jill looks like she is circling the stable ready for the next object to drop!

[Churchhoney]

OMG. Guys. 

 

I was re-watching the episode "Duggars Act Out" (Original Air Date 2011). Jill opts out of going on a family outing because, in Michelle's own words, "Jill was studying to take her midwifery test."

 

Either Jill has been studying to take this test for four years, or she's taken it before and not passed. See above post. 

 

My bet is she'll be studying forever, probably.

 

In any case, though, I don't actually think she's taken the test before, because I don't think there's any way she could have completed all the observational and practical stuff you have to have completed before you take the test -- at that point four years ago or even now, since she stopped doing the practical stuff a couple of years ago already. Four years ago she was probably thinking that she'd get through the practical and observational parts a lot faster -- since there was no man on the horizon and the woman she was working with still had her own certifications and licensure intact so Jill could work with her frequently -- so she was gearing up to take the written test fairly soon. It's really pretty comprehensive, and that would have meant a long period of study for someone who probably never had to apply herself to studying anything before, given the whiffs we get of what the SOTDRT is like and Jill's grasp of fractions.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

someone who probably never had to apply herself to studying anything before, given the whiffs we get of what the SOTDRT is like and Jill's grasp of fractions.

 

And this, I do not understand. Because unless her parents literally forbad her to take the time, I don't understand how they kept her away from that computer. I'm not dismissing the fact that she was essentially the teenaged mother of fifteen or so kids, but if the only outlet I had for anything that wasn't watching  my mom push out more babies for me to raise was fractions, I would be spending a lot of time learning fractions.

[Churchhoney]

And this, I do not understand. Because unless her parents literally forbad her to take the time, I don't understand how they kept her away from that computer. I'm not dismissing the fact that she was essentially the teenaged mother of fifteen or so kids, but if the only outlet I had for anything that wasn't watching  my mom push out more babies for me to raise was fractions, I would be spending a lot of time learning fractions.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I keep wondering about the Duggar kids generally. As I've mentioned before, I truly think that they're mostly just dumb, dull, incurious people, by birth and not just by nurture. I don't see any other way to explain why virtually none of them seem to have learned anything or really pursued interests in anything.

 

Jinger's famous photography, for example -- in my experience, people who really love photography are absolutely obsessive about it. You can't pry the camera out of their hands and they're always learning things and experimenting. But you don't see that at all with the Duggar person I've always heard should "start her own photography studio." As far as I can tell, she doesn't give a crap about photography, just as Jill clearly doesn't give a crap about fractions.

 

And ditto for the rest. Yeah, there's Duggar studios. But even there, if somebody was truly interested and not an idiot, a lot more would be being done and it'd be a lot better. The only visible exception seems to be John David getting his instrument rating as a pilot, and that I truly am impressed with. (And who'd'a thunk I'd find John David the most impressive in any way.)

 

Maybe there's someone hidden down in the lower reaches who spends time studying or reading or pursuing some hobby. But you sure don't see it. And since I came from a very very squelching environment myself, I know for a fact that, if you really want to do those things, you find a way to do them secretly and on the sly, no matter how much people try to deter you. I can't escape the conclusion that the Duggar kids are dumb and boring by nature, the lot of them. Not that many couldn't blossom to some degree if they were in a nurturing and creative environment. I think that everyone can. But I just don't see evidence that any of them have enough natural talent and drive to pursue anything seriously if their environment doesn't actively call for it. Maybe it's just as well. Could be we're more frustrated for the kids than they are for themselves -- when it comes to schooling and hobbies, at least.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Churchhoney

[CofCinci]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jill has failed this exam a few times.

None of these children have ever been taught how to study -- or even had the experience where they needed to study for a midterm, final exam or SAT/ACT.

Her parents have failed her in so many ways.

[kokapetl]

There's less than 40 lay midwives in their state of about 3 million people. I couldn't find the number of obstetricians, but there are approx 6,500 doctors in Arkansas, and certified nurse midwives are a thing in Arkansas, too. Considering that the "training" for lay midwives requires apprentices to observe, in person, a certain number of deliveries by other lay midwives within a certain time frame, Jill's "training" might have been so drawn out because the observation requirement is a real obstacle.

ETA: Jill's not on the flyer style register of midwives or midwife apprentices on the Arkansas Health Department website. I believe her "training" wasn't completed because her apprenticeship "master" Venessa was de-registered.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Kokapetl

[3girlsforus]

Setting aside whether Derrick had any "right" to know about the molestation pre-marriage, I think it is deeply unfortunate that potential marriage partners are not allowed the opportunity and the privacy to really get to know each other intimately before marriage. And I'm not talking about physical intimacy. I am talking about real emotional intimacy. And the sad thing is, I think JB and M do this by design. They don't want potential suitors to get an honest glimpse into their messed up family until they've already signed on the dotted line and they're married. Point of no return. You're stuck for life -- no matter what skeletons come tumbling out of the family closet.  

 

Plus, while I can understand JB and M's desire to get to know a potential suitor in a family context, I have to say that hanging out with parents and siblings is not an accurate sampling of a person's true character in private since they will be on their "company behavior," as my grandmother would say, in public and around family. 

 

This has been my biggest problem with his chaperone/courting stuff from the beginning. How can you possibly develop the kind of emotional intimacy you need to know if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone when you aren't spending any time with them being yourself and being honest about your thoughts and ideas. People are not the same when around their family. This is especially true with the Duggars since these kids know there is only one way to act, think, believe in that house so if they entertain other thoughts or plans they can't feel free to express them when the family is present.

[louannems]

I definitely don't blame Jill for not telling Derick. How on earth could she have? I blame JB/Michele for ignoring the effect something like that would have on her and insisting she marry someone she has never even talked to alone. Nothing like setting a time bomb to go off in the middle of a marriage.

I definitely don't blame Jill for not telling Derick. How on earth could she have? I blame JB/Michele for ignoring the effect something like that would have on her and insisting she marry someone she has never even talked to alone. Nothing like setting a time bomb to go off in the middle of a marriage.

I definitely don't blame Jill for not telling Derick. How on earth could she have? I blame JB/Michele for ignoring the effect something like that would have on her and insisting she marry someone she has never even talked to alone. Nothing like setting a time bomb to go off in the middle of a marriage.

But it was only mild, inappropriate touching over fully clothed girls.

[kokapetl]

This has been my biggest problem with his chaperone/courting stuff from the beginning. How can you possibly develop the kind of emotional intimacy you need to know if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone when you aren't spending any time with them being yourself and being honest about your thoughts and ideas. People are not the same when around their family. This is especially true with the Duggars since these kids know there is only one way to act, think, believe in that house so if they entertain other thoughts or plans they can't feel free to express them when the family is present.

Derick and Jill's courtship was like a very weird and unusually long job interview.

[SometimesBites]

This has been my biggest problem with his chaperone/courting stuff from the beginning. How can you possibly develop the kind of emotional intimacy you need to know if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone when you aren't spending any time with them being yourself and being honest about your thoughts and ideas. People are not the same when around their family. This is especially true with the Duggars since these kids know there is only one way to act, think, believe in that house so if they entertain other thoughts or plans they can't feel free to express them when the family is present.

It's an insidious and stupid situation. Michelle and Jim Bob had the normal opportunity to build a relationship prior to marrying. But they deny that opportunity to their own children based on rules established by a man who was never married. They should know better based on their own experience. It's beyond absurd.

[BitterApple]

Derick and Jill's courtship was like a very weird and unusually long job interview.

Lmfao, nailed it!!!! Their Skype sessions reminded me of how employers will often start with phone interviews to determine whether or not a candidate is worth bringing in for a face-to-face.

[kandinski]

Jills "courtship" was vomit making watching them try and get to know each other with Xanax stare and Rim Job sat there in a state of arousal.

 

Id place a bet Derrick was detrmined to bag a Duggar....any one...it didnt matter who,although the most sub serviant one would be the decider i quess.

[CofCinci]

Id place a bet Derrick was detrmined to bag a Duggar....any one...it didnt matter who,although the most sub serviant one would be the decider i quess.

Yes. Derrick sought after JB and courted JB through their "prayer partner" relationship. Derrick wanted in and probably didn't care which daughter he received as long as she'd be willing to baby-bird him his lunch every day at noon in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

Ben and Jessa's relationship happened organically. They were too people who were attracted to each other and wanted to bump privates --- and would have done so without JB's blessing.

[kokapetl]

I think the driving force behind Derick's open invitation for a bride is probably a fear that what happened to his father (died at 50, natural causes) will happen to him, and he needs to get married and have kids ASAP. That Jill didn't seem to show much, if any hesitation herself about signing up for marriage and kids ASAP with a stranger probably sealed the deal for him. If they both remain focused on that goal, and don't annoy each other, it could work and they may never realize their marriage is really built on convenience and expedience.

[truthtalk2014]

I think the driving force behind Derick's open invitation for a bride is probably a fear that what happened to his father (died at 50, natural causes) will happen to him, and he needs to get married and have kids ASAP. That Jill didn't seem to show much, if any hesitation herself about signing up for marriage and kids ASAP with a stranger probably sealed the deal for him. If they both remain focused on that goal, and don't annoy each other, it could work and they may never realize their marriage is really built on convenience and expedience.

If this really was his train of thought, he should be very concerned about filling up a house with children and dying at age 50 - especially with a wife that will most likely never be able to have a job that would support a family. Derick's mom had a career and only two blessings.

[Missy Vixen]

This is true. It must be walking on eggshells being married to a Duggar. I do think, however, Joshgate I caused shit to get real - Derick probably didn't include Jesus in many of those conversations. The inevitable loss of fame/money now, in a year, or in five years will do away with a the holy talk. Jill will eventually become the powerless one in the relationship.

I keep coming back to the same thing. Imagine what you might do if you were in derickdillardduggar's shoes. You've married a woman you hardly know that is a D-list reality show celebrity. Everything looks great from the outside. It's amazing how much a magazine will pay for "exclusive" pictures of your wedding, which is filmed for a nationwide TV audience. Her parents are a bit overprotective (and you don't really know each other) but you wanted a sweet, submissive wife, and she's really into you, from all exterior appearances. You get married in a rush, the honeymoon is great, and then BOOM. Your wife (that you still hardly know) is pregnant two weeks after the wedding. The pregnancy brings a whole new set of problems. The wheels start coming off of the "fame and reality show" bus. A few short months later, you discover that your wife was molested by her older brother, which makes national news. If that was not shocking enough, the older brother's entire double life is also splashed across every media source in the USA and internationally.

 

One can only imagine the first conversation the newlyweds had after the phone rang at their house and it was whatever media outlet called Jilly Muffin first. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Jesus/God's Will/our testimony and everything to do with "Holy shit, where can we go to get away from this? And why didn't you tell me before now?"

Edited September 14, 2015 by Missy Vixen

[3girlsforus]

It's an insidious and stupid situation. Michelle and Jim Bob had the normal opportunity to build a relationship prior to marrying. But they deny that opportunity to their own children based on rules established by a man who was never married. They should know better based on their own experience. It's beyond absurd.

 

It really is so stupid. I think it highlights a few things. We know their primary concern is the physical part of the relationship, i.e. don't have one until you are married. I think it's really telling that they think the only way to achieve that is to never be alone together and never have an emotional relationship until after you are married. In other words, you will have sex if you are alone together and develop an emotional relationship. We all know that is stupid. Plenty of people refrain from sex until marriage and still develop emotional intimacy. I have to wonder if they think it's not possible based on their own experience. I wouldn't put it past them to have slept together before marriage and now are super freaked that their kids might do the same and ruin their reputation and perfect parents. Another possibility is that JB and Michele don't have an emotionally intimate relationship and they think the only difference between knowing a person and being married is the sex so they don't understand what they are depriving their children of in the first place

[JoanArc]

The thing about Jill and Derrick is their marriage (and lives) has peaked. They had fame, fortune, fans, fun, a TV show, magazine covers, an easy life all around, with no effort. That's a lot before the age of 25. Pretty much everything that happens from here on out will be going downhill. I can't imagine being married for a year and realizing that life will never be that good again. I'd rather have a modest little life that builds to something over decades than what the Dillards got.

[Churchhoney]

 

 

 I believe her "training" wasn't completed because her apprenticeship "master" Venessa was de-registered.

 

 

Well, that, and because she was suddenly "in a courtship," right? And we know that in the Duggar household, once you have a man on the string, it's impossible to work, study or even do household chores. You're way too busy pursuing your intense relationship in which you can't either touch the guy, send him private emails or be alone in a room with him for 30 seconds.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Churchhoney

[kokapetl]

All I can say is, when Venessa was removed from the list, Jill and Jana were too. Midwifery is one of the few remaining strictly "women only" jobs. No lay midwife "masters" or "apprentices" in Arkansas are male, and I've read about qualified male registered nurse midwives in Australia successfully argue to Equal Opportunity Tribunals that they were discriminated against due to being male.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Joe Jitsu913]

Yes. Derrick sought after JB and courted JB through their "prayer partner" relationship. Derrick wanted in and probably didn't care which daughter he received as long as she'd be willing to baby-bird him his lunch every day at noon in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

Ben and Jessa's relationship happened organically. They were too people who were attracted to each other and wanted to bump privates --- and would have done so without JB's blessing.

I would have to disagree about Jessa and Bin. I think Jessa made herself believe that Bin was 'the One', only because she wanted out of the house. Her attraction to him is secondary, IMO. In the real world, she would have probably dated an older, well-established guy with money. Or a professional athlete. Not some unemployed, wannabe Joel Osteen.

[Wellfleet]

The thing about Jill and Derrick is their marriage (and lives) has peaked. They had fame, fortune, fans, fun, a TV show, magazine covers, an easy life all around, with no effort. That's a lot before the age of 25. Pretty much everything that happens from here on out will be going downhill. I can't imagine being married for a year and realizing that life will never be that good again. I'd rather have a modest little life that builds to something over decades than what the Dillards got.

 

Extremely good point. Like being named Homecoming King or Queen in high school. Let's be honest, for many of those types, HIGH SCHOOL is going to their biggest moment. At least it was in my hometown. What a demoralizing moment. As much fun as it would have been to be Queen, I'm honestly glad I wasn't... 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Darknight]

The molestation is Jill's private information. She is not obligated to tell anyone.

I think she's obligated to tell her spouse. Some men and women can't deal with being with someone whose been sexual abused. It's a lot of "baggage" and issues to handle. Being abused affects everything. Including touching,kissing, smells, food, flashbacks even with therapy. Being molested stays with you for life and not everyone can be in a relationship with a person whose molested. I would rather a person know the truth before marriage so they themselves can process the information and make a decision than not know and have problems in the marriage

Edited September 14, 2015 by Darknight

[TomServo]

For those in the know, what's the CNM opinion of CPMs?

 

It really depends on how things work in the state in question and the people in question.  I knew a nurse who worked in the hospital Ina May Gaskin typically used (at the time) for clients that required hospital transfers, and she didn't have anything negative to say about her.

I actually have a friend who was a CNM and practiced in a hospital setting who was present at the home birth of a friend (not as the midwife, but as a support person for her friend), and after experiencing that setting, she made the switch to practice as a CPM (not all states allow CNMs to practice in out-of-hospital settings and in her state, CNMs and CPMs were overseen by different licensing boards).  Obviously, if she hadn't been impressed with the job the CPM did for her friend, she wouldn't have been inspired to follow in the other lady's footsteps.

One of my births was a home birth with a CPM.  I interviewed more than one midwife and did not hire the one that was most geographically convenient to me.  Some CPMs seem to be in it because they are what I call "birth junkies."  Another one I interviewed seemed to be wrapped up in the political aspects of it and my first impression of her was that she was too hands-off, impersonal, and a bit absent-minded and leaned on her assistants too much for organizational purposes.  The one I hired was very experienced, on -the-ball, and right off the bat was very clear that while she was pretty laid back about prenatal choices for experienced moms (and she has a lot of what I'd consider hippie tendencies herself), there was a list of circumstances that were non-negotiable as far as throwing hippie preferences out the window because her job was to keep everybody safe.  She was really the right balance for me.

Even CPMs will have other colleagues whose services they would or would not recommend just like you'd see in any profession.  Ditto for CNMs.

In my state, CPMs have to have a collaborative care plan with a physician (usually this is just window dressing for legal purposes because the physicians actually don't want to deal with it), and if a hospital transfer is required, the CPM is supposed to stay with you for support purposes and also to inform the hospital personnel about what's been going on up to that point so they'll know how to help you.  If you're in a state where CPMs are dealt with less favorably, then my guess is that the situations the CNMs are most likely to see are ones like you'd see in the book Pushed where the CPM sends the couple to the hospital, but doesn't go with because she's afraid of being arrested and therefore it just looks bad all around.

Edited September 14, 2015 by TomServo

[kokapetl]

I think Jill doesn't consider her sexual abuse to be a liability or burden re: herself, let alone to her spouse. She doesn't think it makes her damaged goods.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Julia]

I think she's obligated to tell her spouse. Some men and women can't deal with being with someone whose been sexual abused. It's a lot of "baggage" and issues to handle. Being abused affects everything. Including touching,kissing, smells, food, flashbacks even with therapy. Being molested stays with you for life and not everyone can be in a relationship with a person whose molested. I would rather a person know the truth before marriage so they themselves can process the information and make a decision than not know and have problems in the marriage

 

I think she's good and obligated to tell someone she's planning on having lots of children with that a child molester who got at best perfunctory treatment is going to have access to their children.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Julia

[MarysWetBar]

I think Jill doesn't consider her sexual abuse to be a liability or burden re: herself, let alone to her spouse. She doesn't think it makes her damaged goods.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this.

I think her whole perfect idea of a world was torn apart.

Edited September 14, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[wirebitersm]

In their view, I don't think they think they need to know each other all that well before marriage. God will let JB know if he approves and God wouldn't approve if you weren't perfect for each other. If it doesn't work, then you must not be praying enough. 

[GeeGolly]

Did this episode state that Jill was involved somehow in each of these kid' births?  

 

[JoanArc]

 

Did this episode state that Jill was involved somehow in each of these kid' births?

Kudos to Jill for taking blood pressure and handing cool compresses.

[cmr2014]

Jill looks about 4 years old in that photo.

 

it reminded me that for all the talk we do here about how she should do this or that, she really does have the emotional maturity of a middle-schooler. I hope that she continues to get some much-needed education, and that Derick gets her as far away from the TTH as possible. She might eventually mature into the young adult that she is physically, and be able to make some decisions for herself.

[kokapetl]

Archive.org had three versions of the midwife apprentice list, 2010, 2013 and 2015. Jill and Jana only appear in 2013. There was at least one person I saw on all three, they evidently are currently apprentices and have been since 2010.

Jill may actually have observed those babies being born. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, the amount of time it would've taken her to observe all of those births seems plenty enough to learn and pass the exam. On the other hand, lay midwives shouldn't be encouraged, and I can see the medical authorities setting "training" requirements too high to discourage anyone from undertaking them.

[Churchhoney]

Archive.org had three versions of the midwife apprentice list, 2010, 2013 and 2015. Jill and Jana only appear in 2013. There was at least one person I saw on all three, they evidently are currently apprentices and have been since 2010.

Jill may actually have observed those babies being born. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, the amount of time it would've taken her to observe all of those births seems plenty enough to learn and pass the exam. On the other hand, lay midwives shouldn't be encouraged, and I can see the medical authorities setting "training" requirements too high to discourage anyone from undertaking them.

 

In order to take the exam, she would need to have been the primary midwife, with supervision, in a bunch of visits and births, not just observe and not just assist. This is the third set of clinical stuff that has to be completed before you're allowed to take the written exam:

"Phase 3: Clinicals as Primary Under Supervision

20 births, 75 prenatals (including 20 initial prenatals), 20 newborn exams, and 40 postpartum exams as a primary midwife under supervision. Continuity of Care births are required in this phase."

 

http://narm.org/entry-level-applicants/

[CofCinci]

Did this episode state that Jill was involved somehow in each of these kid' births?

Hysterical.

Literally and figuratively because I doubt she's even seen a vagina in real life, print or video, let alone actually truely assisted in a delivery.

[SomePity1066]

It really depends on how things work in the state in question and the people in question.  I knew a nurse who worked in the hospital Ina May Gaskin typically used (at the time) for clients that required hospital transfers, and she didn't have anything negative to say about her.

I actually have a friend who was a CNM and practiced in a hospital setting who was present at the home birth of a friend (not as the midwife, but as a support person for her friend), and after experiencing that setting, she made the switch to practice as a CPM (not all states allow CNMs to practice in out-of-hospital settings and in her state, CNMs and CPMs were overseen by different licensing boards).  Obviously, if she hadn't been impressed with the job the CPM did for her friend, she wouldn't have been inspired to follow in the other lady's footsteps.

One of my births was a home birth with a CPM.  I interviewed more than one midwife and did not hire the one that was most geographically convenient to me.  Some CPMs seem to be in it because they are what I call "birth junkies."  Another one I interviewed seemed to be wrapped up in the political aspects of it and my first impression of her was that she was too hands-off, impersonal, and a bit absent-minded and leaned on her assistants too much for organizational purposes.  The one I hired was very experienced, on -the-ball, and right off the bat was very clear that while she was pretty laid back about prenatal choices for experienced moms (and she has a lot of what I'd consider hippie tendencies herself), there was a list of circumstances that were non-negotiable as far as throwing hippie preferences out the window because her job was to keep everybody safe.  She was really the right balance for me.

Even CPMs will have other colleagues whose services they would or would not recommend just like you'd see in any profession.  Ditto for CNMs.

In my state, CPMs have to have a collaborative care plan with a physician (usually this is just window dressing for legal purposes because the physicians actually don't want to deal with it), and if a hospital transfer is required, the CPM is supposed to stay with you for support purposes and also to inform the hospital personnel about what's been going on up to that point so they'll know how to help you.  If you're in a state where CPMs are dealt with less favorably, then my guess is that the situations the CNMs are most likely to see are ones like you'd see in the book Pushed where the CPM sends the couple to the hospital, but doesn't go with because she's afraid of being arrested and therefore it just looks bad all around.

TomServo - Thank you very much for all of the information ! I knew through a casual friend, in her arc from, literally, candy-striper (am I dating myself here ?) in the early 80s, to nursing school, becoming an LPN, RN, LPRN, then also an accredited CNM, THEN medical school to become an OB/GYN, but I never knew the particulars in such detail. The range of abilities and who can do what are fascinating ! I can't imagine Jill, though, being qualified for any of those things, all of her "studying" and "observing" aside  - even candy stripers knew basic first aid and CPR. Jilly Muffin seems oblivious to it all. Maybe MeChelle should have been teaching ME-CONE-KNEE-UM instead of PER-PEN-DICK-YOU-LURE...

[JenCarroll]

*** even candy stripers knew basic first aid and CPR.

I had my first aid and CPR qualification card at age twelve. That's what we did in health class in seventh grade; every single kid in my class had to take the written and practical tests and most of us passed. So that at least might be something Jill could realistically achieve. :-)

(True story. A few years later that school actually burned down and, tragically, Resussi-Annie (the CPR dummy) did not survive her injuries. Her funeral was well attended.)

Edited September 15, 2015 by JenCarroll

[SomePity1066]

Hysterical.

Literally and figuratively because I doubt she's even seen a vagina in real life, print or video, let alone actually truely assisted in a delivery.

VAA-JINE-AHH ???

 

I'm with you, CofCinci - I don't think she's ever seen her OWN vagoo, let alone another woman's...

 

Interesting, though, that there are EXACTLY 19 babbies in the photo. 

 

There are no coincidences. 

[latetotheparty]

I had my first aid and CPR qualification card at age twelve. That's what we did in health class in seventh grade; every single kid in my class had to take the written and practical tests and most of us passed. So that at least might be something Jill could realistically achieve. :-)

(True story. A few years later that school actually burned down and, tragically, Resussi-Annie (the CPR dummy) did not survive her injuries. Her funeral was well attended.)

 

Aw Annie.  I'll remember her fondly. 

 

I also had my certification at 12:  Girl Scouts.

[P2C2E]

Aw Annie. I'll remember her fondly.

I also had my certification at 12: Girl Scouts.

Taking to Small Talk...

[Featherhat]

Both Derrick and Ben seem to have set out to deliberately "buy in" to the family via contacting Jim Boob, neither were casual "met at a previous wedding" or homeschool conference courtships. At least Derrick does have accountancy experience which he will have to fall back on, although it does seem like he drank the TV show Kool Aid, especially if a spin off was floated before Joshgate 1.0.

I don't think there's a one size fits all approach to how molestation affects you long term. For some it affects everything they do in life, for others they may genuinely move past it or not connect it to any consensual acts in their heads. That being said I think its something that should probably come up in a longterm loving relationship but I can understand targets who say "it doesn't affect our relationship" or "I was so ashamed it took me years to confess to my SO".

Why did Boob and J'chelle feel the need to supervise Skype? They can't even from hug, let along kiss. It would be the perfect time to let them have a small modicum of privacy, so they can become closer and affectionate with "danger". I doubt either one of them would start having peep shows or cyber sex. It's hard to establish even a friendship with your parents sitting next to you.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Featherhat

[Guest]

Why did Boob and J'chelle feel the need to supervise Skype? They can't even from hug, let along kiss. It would be the perfect time to let them have a small modicum of privacy, so they can become closer and affectionate with "danger". I doubt either one of them would start having peep shows or cyber sex. It's hard to establish even a friendship with your parents sitting next to you.

 

Because JB wants to control every aspect of their conversation, as well as their physical interactions.

 

I recall an interview with Ben/Jessa where they said that in their early group texts Ben made a joke about a ring (or something like that), and JB immediately interjected via text that it was too soon for them to be talking/joking about that. Thanks, dad. Butt out. 

Edited September 15, 2015 by Guest

[Micks Picks]

Is that what happened with Josiah?

[Guest]

Is that what happened with Josiah?

 

Is what what happened to Josiah?

[Featherhat]

Because JB wants to control every aspect of their conversation, as well as their physical interactions.

 

I recall an interview with Ben/Jessa where they said that in their early group texts Ben made a joke about a ring (or something like that), and JB immediately interjected via text that it was too soon for them to be talking/joking about that.

If that's the level of control they exert then I don't know why they bother with any "God has shown me you're The One" rhetoric, just bring home the guy and announce that the families have agreed you two are to be married and everyone gets one chance to say yes or no, which is still what often happens in India and other places.

Although I think there *are* fundies who would consider the Duggars to liberal and practice "betrothal".

[Guest]

If that's the level of control they exert then I don't know why they bother with any "God has shown me you're The One" rhetoric, just bring home the guy and announce that the families have agreed you two are to be married and everyone gets one chance to say yes or no, which is still what often happens in India and other places.

Although I think there *are* fundies who would consider the Duggars to liberal and practice "betrothal".

 

As Jill said to her father as he was about to walk her down the aisle, "You're the one who set this whole thing up."

[NoThyme]

I think that JB is not only controlling but exhibits tendencies of being jealous. No worse combination of man to live with. I feel bad for all of them.

Edited September 16, 2015 by NoThyme

[Featherhat]

True, but they are given the pretence of "finding the One" even if Jim Boob introduced them. And then its even worse than if he had just said "ok this is your future" husband because you have "everything will now be very special because you've saved for heart (and hymen yuck) for your spouse." Without them actually being able to properly nurture a real (chaste) relationship.

[Guest]

True, but they are given the pretence of "finding the One" even if Jim Boob introduced them. And then its even worse than if he had just said "ok this is your future" husband because you have "everything will now be very special because you've saved for heart (and hymen yuck) for your spouse." Without them actually being able to properly nurture a real (chaste) relationship.

 

I do agree, but I think the kids having the power to find "the One" is just an illusion that maybe not even the kids realize is an illusion. And unfortunately, I don't have a lot of faith in JB's match-making skills. It was luck that Jill and Derrick appear to click with each other despite marrying as emotional strangers. Only time will tell if their luck will run out. 

I think that JB is not only controlling but exhibits tendencies of beeping jealous. No worse combination of man to live with. I feel bad for all of them.

 

Controlling, jealous, and very insecure. IMHO, that is why JB picks these emotionally pliable and financially dependent men for his daughters. He wants to remain Top Dog.