Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CofCinci]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars:  http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

 

 

In 2008 I worked on the set of what was then known as “17 Kids and Counting” and I have something to tell you. ...

During this time, the Duggars had very limited exposure to what they called the “outside world” and so most of the crew members being from larger cities, we were all very surprised at how very little they knew or understood about places like New York, Los Angeles, and London. All of their perceptions of these places were the most exaggerated stereotype cariacatures as if their only source of news was from locally produced religious cartoons from the 1980s. As in, LA is full of surfer dudes and Valley girls, and everyone in New York talks and walks like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever, walks in packs carrying switchblades, spray paints graffiti at every turn, with the only safe haven oddly being the mighty Trump Tower. Yes, Trump Tower was Jim Bob’s go-to when talking anecdotally about the elegance of lavish and luxurious places. ... They didn’t own a television or had an Internet connection at that time, so, really, next to second hand church gossip, the local newspaper was really their only link to anything outside of Arkansas. The producers of the show had instructed crew members to not ever engage in conversation on our own with Jim Bob or Michelle in fears that we may either say something normal that they would find objectionable or that they would say something to where we’d react funny because we weren’t used to their level of “unwordliness” I think it was put.

We were constantly reminded that we were not to upset them or taint their version of the world, which is why they wanted limited conversation. Even a lighthearted conversation that might actually educate them about something they were horribly ignorant about was seen as tainting their view. It was very much like being told to not tell your little sister about Santa Claus.

So, during the leadup to their first family trip to New York to appear on the Today Show, Michelle started approaching some of us about New York and if it’s “scary for kids”. Because Michelle came to us, it was acceptable to entertain conversing with her but producers would always rush over and monitor the conversation. That very day we had a couple of crewmembers new to the set not familiar with the drill. She had directed this question to four of us who all happened to be standing together. As tempting as it was to give some ridiculous answer, the producer’s face reminded us to just be polite and give her the answer she wants. Well, the followup question is when it went completely off the rails. “Well, I hear the city is overrun by ..... gays... has that been causing a lot of problems?” One of the new crewmembers laughed and said “Why don’t you ask “Jimmy”? (Changed his name) and then proceeds to yell over his shoulder “Hey, Jimmy, you giving the city lots of problems???” Jimmy as you can guess, was gay, but this fact was completely lost on the Duggars.

It took her a minute to process that the joke answer might mean that there might really be one of these gays she’s always heard about nearby! In her house, even! She pulled the producer over to the corner and started yelling at him and demanding to know if what was just said was a joke, and that she wants to see Jimmy. We’re all watching this go down from a distance dying inside at how funny this was, and how shit is about to really hit a very big fan. The producer is now in a very tough position, because Jimmy is a veteran of the industry and is excellent at what he does, but now the Duggars’ weird uncultured Pollyanna worldview is threatening to disrupt the production staff. We could see the producer trying to calm her down and offering to have a talk with Jimmy (who we all thought was at a rig about 500 feet away, far enough out of ear shot) when suddenly Jimmy appears. ...

Michelle asked point blank “So ... you’re .... gay???” The four of us are staring at this from a distance as if we’re on the edge of our seats, completely shocked that someone in 2008 would even do that, and Jimmy ... suddenly strikes a pose like a model in a pinup photo, and responds “Well, darling, depends on who’s asking!” Holy shit, the four of us watching were doubled over in pain laughing so hard at this. ...

Well, when we returned, we found out that Jimmy was removed, fired from the set, and transferred to another production, and that none of us are to breathe a word of what we saw to anyone. The official reason given to pacify the Duggars was that he was “fired due to causing conflicts with the talent”. Talent! Amazing how such a small sentence can contain so much hyperbole. He was fired 100% because he was gay and for no other reason. The conflict was because he was gay. Of course, he wasn’t really fired fired, but taken off this particular crew. Jimmy was super cool and took it all in stride, and understood the reasoning and the delicate balance the producers needed to have to please these stupid people. And the reason he never came forward or made a stink was because he was paid a bonus and moved to a more desirable production. The dramatics of the “firing” was inflated for the Duggars’ benefit, stupid enough to believe that normal people from more progressive parts of America would support the removal of a gay person from a job filled with union democrats. (Another secret they weren’t aware of!)

...They kept a very tight lid on this incident, because on future tapings when new crews would be swapped in, they were suspiciously more and more straight-edged Christian than you’d typically see on the set of a television show, any television show, outside of the 700 Club. As long as the Duggars are comfortable and safe from the scary city gays, all went according to plan. ...

Sorry this was so long, I guess I could have just told you that Michelle got someone fired because they were gay, but I thought setting the scene is important to the story. Enjoy!

Edited May 23, 2015 by CofCinci

[PrincessSteel]

I was raised by an addict parent. I know what it does to a child when there is daily (or hourly) evidence that one of the people who is supposed to protect you will not do so and, in fact, will act in ways that are hurtful and frightening. It changes you in a way that informs everything else that happens in your life. Not that you can't move on from something like this. Of course you can. But it doesn't just happen. It takes work and lots of it. Faith alone will not cut it. And, like any other loss, you learn to live with it but it never goes away.

 

All of the children of this family have been failed, and spectacularly so, by both parents. Their only path to dealing with this will include an immediate exit from the public eye. Unless an adult offspring makes an autonomous decision to appear in any media to discuss this, I am just fine with never, ever seeing a Duggar face again as long as I live.

[Darknight]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars: http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

No words..

[RazzleberryPie]

CoofCinci, thank you for that post above (too long to re-quote,IMO). These people are insane. Jimmy had to be assigned something worth his wile, or he could've sued that pants off of Michelle - wait, SKIRT - and TLC. This also shows what isolated, paranoid, IDIOTS they are. Josh fondling his own child siblings is an unfortunate snag, but an adult doing his job, who just so happens to be gay, will taint their whole family? 

 

No wonder they're terrified of the outside world. If their strictly controlled Gothard World involves sin in their own camp, then everyone else must be flat out evil.

[JoanArc]

 

Their exact words were the girls are the "cash cows".

This make me simultaneously want to vomit and punch the screen. With what we know about what at TLC knew what when, I hope hope the entire goddamn network goes down. Rage. :(

[Bella]

I sent an email to TLC/Discovery demanding they help Josh's victims.   Mods may I post the email address?

 

We agreed that this would be fine. Thanks for asking.

 

If you want to post it in the Media thread as well, that is probably okay. (Haven't gotten feedback on that; if it's not, we'll just take it out.)

[AmandaPanda]

It looks like the police records into the investigation have been ordered to be destroyed.

 

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/josh_duggars_police_records_ordered_destroyed-2015-05

[Almost 3000]

There's definitely more to this story than has been published so far. I mean, this began to unravel due to a note found in a book from the Duggar home?

 

A book? Not possible.

 

(^^ lame attempt at humor in a dark situation) 

I wanted to make the book joke yesterday but thought it was to soon. Today is another day. :^)

[HumblePi]

TLC... the other guilty party.  'The Learning Channel'      
 
     Originally, The Learning Channel, owned by Discovery, was created as an informative and instructional network focused on providing real education through the medium of television. The channel mostly featured documentary content pertaining to nature, science, history, current events, medicine, technology, cooking, home improvement, and other information-based topics. The channel was geared toward an inquisitive and narrow audience during this time. Perhaps due to poor ratings from a narrow target audience, TLC began to explore new avenues starting in the mid-1990s, deemphasizing educational material in favor of entertainment.

 

In 1998, the channel started to reinvent itself by offering programs that were less educational in nature and more towards reality-based drama. And so it began. The shows took a good market share of viewers who watched out of curiosity, and by indulging in some sort of twisted voyeurism, prying into the lives of dysfunctional families, mentally ill shutouts, and terrible parents. Shows such as Jersey Shore, 19 Kids and Counting, Hoarding: Buried Alive, and Toddlers and Tiaras,“Toddlers and Tiaras” frequently came under fire for its twisted values.TLC consistently aired shows that exploit mental illnesses and misguided members of society for the purposes of entertainment.

 

The TLC channel and the 'powers that be' within the framework of the corporation are an inseparable element from the entire scandal. TLC was fully aware that Oprah sent them all packing from Chicago without appearing on her show, and they know exactly why too. Harpo Productions is a giant with a slew of legal resources that clearly verified the information and deemed it true enough to send the Duggars swiftly back to Arkansas. TLC had a contract with the Duggars and were very much aware of the reasons they were cancelled from the Oprah show.

 

TLC was making way too much money from the Duggars to divulge this crucial information. They had already paid the Duggars $200,000 to build their new home. Every stick of furniture, musical instruments, and just about everything inside the house except for the kitchen was given to the Duggars. The kitchen is the only room in that huge home that the Duggars paid for themselves.

 

TLC has become the clogged garbage disposal of American culture. TLC may have its fair share of viewers who only watch out of a sense of morbid fascination, but I believe that it's possible that a TV network like TLC  could offer  a far more enjoyable platform without this sort of trash.

 

 

[Joan van Snark]

I wonder if the sisters shared a collective sigh of relief when The Creeper moved out to live with Anna.  I also really wonder if Pa Keller was told the whole story about Creeper's activities?  I can't imagine marrying my daughter off to a man that has admittedly fondled FIVE OF HIS YOUNGER SISTERS on repeated occasions---even after being caught the first time!  If Creeper had done it once and after being caught and told it was inappropriate and the behavior stopped I could almost understand that---but it happened again.

 

Out of everything coming out perhaps I am most shocked (other than the obvious Creeper confession) about that blog post from FreeJinger in which someone supposedly in the know said Mary was one of the ring leaders!  I have always liked Grandma and never got the sense she was especially interested in the show or being on camera.  I always got the feeling she was reluctantly living there because she knew Mullet's parenting was inadequate and she wanted to provide guidance and support for her grandchildren.  But this person claiming Mary was one of the biggest schills---wow!  Say it ain't so Grandma!

[SongbirdHollow]

From a purely fact based standpoint, I don't see anything bad here especially given their religious views. I don't know the motivations of JimBob and Michelle and I don't know what political aspirations they had but on the surface everything seems rational. Yes they should have gotten official counseling for all of the kids but what if they couldn't afford it at the time?

 

Yes, I keep thinking about how JB originally agreed to send Josh to a sex-offender program but changed his mind when he found out that some of them could be considered "finishing schools" for perverts. Is that true? Could putting kids with the same problem together in such a program be harmful in that way? I have no idea, as I thankfully have not been personally affected by sexual abuse as so many here have been. I would love to know what y'all think.

 

I think JB & M did what they thought was appropriate at the time within the parameters of their faith. Maybe that makes me a Pollyanna, and it certainly doesn't help the victims now. It's all very sad. I hope everyone gets the help they need.

[Chai]

Email address for TLC

 

Viewer_relations@discovery.com

[Ljohnson1987]

Anna should be thinking about her young kids.

[cmr2014]

I would also miss seeing the kids. I thought how could they revamped this show without mom and dad and Josh? Does anyone think they should have an honest sit down interview, from, their home, just Michelle and JB, to finally be real and face the true fans who have watched all these years?

 

I genuinely don't believe that they are capable of "being real." I don't even know if they can speak normally to each other when the cameras are off. Everything they say is so guarded, and so couched in "Gothard-speak,"  that I think they just search their data banks for a Gothardism that might fit a situation: "that's precious" "we are blessed" "we sought the Lord's guidance" etc. I don't think it's possible to get any real, meaningful conversation out of any of them.

 

Also, it's easy for us to see the girls as victims, but in Gothard-world, they're not. The girls are as much to blame -- if not more to blame -- for these incidents, than Josh due to their "defrauding" ways. So when we read about forgiveness within the family, it went both ways. The girls forgave Josh for molesting them and Josh "forgave" the girls for "defrauding" him. Having this come out is as shaming to the girls as it is to Josh. Maybe the girls would want to continue on with the show to show the world that they have repented and reformed and are now modest and pure, but maybe not.

 

If they tried to make a "very special episode" about this, I think that the girls would feel compelled to confess their own "blame" in the situation and it would be repulsive and off-putting (to everyone who isn't a Gothardite), and would do even more damage.

[MAJAK]

First,  I have to say that I have not watched this show in years - I stopped shortly after I realized that the parents were not having children to love, raise, teach or cherish but just having them as trophies to pump up their own egos and keep the sad sham that the premise of their show is built on going.  That said, I have enjoyed the snark here and on TVWOP before this site. 

 

There is so much and so many to blame  - the "parents", Josh, the grandmother who has been if not in residence, at least at the house enough that she has become one of the show's characters and TLC.  And just my opinion, but the praying that people are saying they are doing should go only to the victims or at least to them first. 

 

As far as the "parents" - what an outrage that during their Q&A show, Michelle (MOTY) seemed to be well aware that this was going to hit and that she wanted to use the forum to be sure that  their fans knew her young daughters somehow enticed their slime ball older brother to molest them -  or maybe she just wanted to be sure that Josh's victims felt shamed again. I get that people will argue that the younger children are not in any danger but the fact that any female child in that house is considered nothing but chattel- a less than free human who should work tirelessly in the house and then be given to a male - to me is enough that every unmarried female in that house should be considered endangered or at risk.  

 

As far as TLC, I would think given the nature of their shows their typical demographic is female and it may surprise them but many of us actually are educated and have the ability to think for ourselves and can have an opinion that is independent of our significant other (or parents) and can be appalled that these "parents" who have been held up as examples of promoting a wholesome and modest lifestyle would in any way blame these poor innocent little girls for what their molester did and make them feel responsible- wow, I have no words (well, I guess given the length of this post I found some).      

 

 

 

 

[ZoloftBlob]

but changed his mind when he found out that some of them could be considered "finishing schools" for perverts. Is that true? Could putting kids with the same problem together in such a program be harmful in that way?

 

The theory on why it's not a good idea is that a naïve offender merely learns from others how to hide his problem. Personally I think the good outweighs the bad when it comes to sexual abuse. I mean, this wasn't stealing cars, Josh was returned to the home and to his victims with no real therepy.

[CofCinci]

Anna should be thinking about her young kids.

As a mother myself, I can imagine that her head has been spinning these last few days. I'm sure she is thinking about the safety of her children and must feel overwhelmed. She is completely without resources. She comes from a poor family. Any salary Josh made in DC was most likely quickly consumed by DC-area cost of living. I doubt the couple has seen much of the money brought in by the Duggar brand. The $55,000 wrecked house he purchased a few months ago was most likely done on JB's dime. Anna has nothing and is incapable of supporting herself.

[bencr]

The young Josh Duggar and his victims were all let down by the community of adults whose job it was to protect them. At the top of the list has to be Josh's parents -- Jim Bob and Michelle -- who conspired with law enforcement and clergy to cover up the sexual abuse and deny real treatment to both the perpetrator and his victims. I would add to that list politicians (I'm looking at you Huckabee) and TLC who chose to do the wrong thing for reasons of money and/or power. It's amazing to me that when money and power are involved whole communities of adults will disregard the needs of children.

[truthtalk2014]

 

The REALLY snarky part of me has this vision of Josh rolling up in the driveway of the newly remodeled grandma house, knocking at the door and telling a puffy-eyed Jessa and Ben "time's up.  I'ma need y'all to pack up and get out, I need the house back."

Josh does not own that house and I'm pretty sure he never did.  I think Mary signed it over to JB to put in the Duggar Trust.  

[Diffy]

I have only watched bits and pieces of episodes here and there, and I have never been on a Duggar board before, so I am sorry if this has been addressed in the past on PTV, but I have a question about the money that has been earned through the show.  I thought it would make sense to ask here because of posts expressing concern about the financial future of the younger children post-TLC, and I hope there is a lawyerly type here who can help me out:

 

Do any child actor laws apply to reality TV stars in situations like this?  Isn't it a legal requirement that children who earn money at a young age are supposed to save a significant portion of their earnings for their use after they turn 18?  I know they are not "acting" in the traditional sense, but I think an argument can be made that appearing on this show has been their job, so a portion of the "salary" must be put aside for them to use at their discretion without any reference to their parents' directives on how to spend that money. Am I way off base?  I assume that as of right now the parents have not set individual accounts aside for their children, because it has not been addressed on each child's 18th birthday.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are in accord with whatever law would cover a case like this.  If one of the kids had to take this to civil court to set a new precedent, what are their chances of winning? (I know this assumes that any of them would actually be interested in suing their parents in the first place; I am mostly interested in the hypothetical.)

 

I just would really like for these children to have some independent financial protection once the show is canceled, which I think is the most likely outcome.  And even if the show isn't canceled, I still think they deserve to be payed for their work!

 

You are referring to the California Child Actor's Bill here, often called the Coogan Law.  There is no Federal Law protecting child performers and setting aside percentages of their earnings for future use by the child.  Each State has its own child labor laws but provisions protecting children working in entertainment vary widely.  The California Coogan Law has been copied by a few other states (New York and Pennsylvania, for example) but in most states children working in entertainment have very few protections and no money is set aside for them.   See www.minorcon.org for further information.

[HumblePi]

I have to defend the duggar parents a little bit on this. There is so much speculation and assumptions being made but based on what I know I don't think that I would have acted much differently as a parent. If I were made aware of an incident between my son and daughter, I would be equally concerned about both of them. Obviously for different reasons but just because one did a horrible thing doesn't make me love him less or want to protect him less. If I thought it was a singular occurrence than I would talk to him about it and try to deal with him in family. When I learned of more bad behavior, I would get counsel from others and if I knew a family friend in law enforcement it doesn't seem unreasonable to go to them. Did Jimbob know this officer was a gross child porn man? Maybe but that is all purely speculation. What if he thought the guy was clean and trusted? It seems natural if you are taking a child that you love to the police to pick someone you know and think is a good guy. I would maybe even choose to send the offender to the build a house/mentor/counseling thing. Yes it isn't official psych work but perhaps the guy is really good at counseling people.

From a purely fact based standpoint, I don't see anything bad here especially given their religious views. I don't know the motivations of JimBob and Michelle and I don't know what political aspirations they had but on the surface everything seems rational. Yes they should have gotten official counseling for all of the kids but what if they couldn't afford it at the time?

According to Forbes, Jim Bob Duggar's estimated net worth was $3.6 million as of May 2015.

Josh Duggar's parents sent their son to Little Rock in March 2003 after learning he repeated the behavior he confessed to in 2002 and been disciplined for at that time. According to the police report, Jim Bob Duggar told Hignite in 2006 he sent his son to a Christian ministry in "the old Veteran's Hospital in Little Rock." Duggar said he couldn't remember the name of the program, but it involved "hard physical work and counseling." Michelle Duggar told police the place her son attended "was not really a training center" but Josh went to work for a "guy they knew in Little Rock who is remodeling a building." 

 

If one of my children was caught molesting anyone, a neighbor's child, or a sibling, I sure as heck wouldn't call on the plumber, carpenter, or the electrician to counsel him or her.

[natyxg]

Yes, I keep thinking about how JB originally agreed to send Josh to a sex-offender program but changed his mind when he found out that some of them could be considered "finishing schools" for perverts. Is that true? Could putting kids with the same problem together in such a program be harmful in that way? I have no idea, as I thankfully have not been personally affected by sexual abuse as so many here have been. I would love to know what y'all think.

 

I don't really know how the sex offenders programs are in reality, but I understand their line of thinking. I mean, I'm not saying that they were wrong or right, but knowing what we know about the Duggars and because of conservative people that I know, I image why they would think so. They are very sheltered people, even more so back in 2003. And when people are too sheltered and they hear about bad things from the news or from other people they tend to believe the hyperbole right away and accept it as truth. I figure they imagined Josh, their good but misguided christian boy who just made some mistakes, surrounded by predators who did worse things and could give him even more bad ideas that he could copy, either during therapy and just by interacting with him. So better to not do that, in their minds, because he could come back worse after having been exposed to the things they tried to hard to shelter him from.

 

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars: http://defamer.gawke...ay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

 

 

Thanks for the link. What I liked the most was this part

 

Which makes us wonder: What do you know about the Duggars?

 

I know they are referring to other people who could share their Duggar stories, but it made me think of something that has been on my mind since this broke out: that now the public at large will really know the Duggars and their beliefs, that people didn't really know them before. They made their fame by highlighting that they were a dorky family whose values were a throwback to "better" times, with the obsession with marriage and the chaperones and religion and whatever. Sure, they were anti gay but that was expected from such conservative Christians, right? So people didn't think much about that. But now the media will really show mainstream people what many online knew.

 

I too thought they were just harmless dorky people. I just occasionally caught an episode and didn't give it much thought. I thought Josh and Anna not kissing until the wedding was extreme, but whatever. The alarms when off when I saw that Jill and Derrick couldn't even have a frontal hug. I was horrified when I realized that the problem was that a frontal hug men touching breasts to chest. I realized there that there was a very pervy vibe to so many of their rules, that they sexualized everything. And something was just not right. I came online and boy was I right. I never imagined sexual abuse, but after reading so much on this forum I knew the family was off because their beliefs were so toxic and unhealthy.

[Spencer Hastings]

I kind of wish TLC would ask the girls how THEY feel about continuing without Josh or their parents. Stipulate somehow in their contracts that no money is to be given to the parents (which would probably be impossible). The parents and Josh aren't to be anywhere near them when the cameras are rolling. Let them decide what they want to do. Anything else feels like further punishment for them.

Selfishly, I will miss Mackynzie and Michael, who seem to have been raised well by their mother.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[starfire]

I wonder what Josh and Anna will do now, and where they will live. It's doubtful Josh will have another job any time soon. Perhaps they will live in an RV in the Duggar backyard? Or maybe they will all  cram into Ben's old bedroom in the Duggar barn?

 

I feel very sorry for Josh's children, whose lives will be turned upside down over this.

[CofCinci]

I wonder what Josh and Anna will do now, and where they will live. It's doubtful Josh will have another job any time soon. Perhaps they will live in an RV in the Duggar backyard? Or maybe they will all cram into Ben's old bedroom in the Duggar barn?

I feel very sorry for Josh's children, whose lives will be turned upside down over this.

Josh and Anna do own a home there now. It's not very liveable but they could easily live in one or two rooms will JB, Josh and some of the rando sons help remodel, which was most likely the plan this whole time.

I'm texting one of my friends now who is a court-appointed victim advocate. She believes it would take weeks for the destroy records request to actually make it to the Judge. Was this something the family has worked on for a few weeks prior to the media learning about it?

[JoanArc]

Michelle treatment of the gay cameraman is inexcusable. Even the crew had to toss them seoftballs. At this point, screw 'Mr Jim' too.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/05/22/the-duggars-dangerous-cult-of-purity/

 

How nice knowing your mother considers you to be a used bicycle, and your father a cesspit of STDs.

 

 

“God can forgive any wrong choices a person is willing to confess and forsake, but there are still painful consequences to be endured.”

Jim Bob's words. My God, the irony.

 

 

You are more than your purity. And people are not bicycles or cups full of spit.

THIS!

[truthtalk2014]

I have to say that anyone that is feeling sorry for the cast and crew- don't.  They have a contract and the union and will be paid regardless.  Sure, they will have to relocate for the next show, but this is how the business works.  And, I would hope that after reading all the new info coming out, they would want to leave. 

 

My thought is that if Oprah got a letter detailing all this info- TLC did as well.  I think they chose to ignore it. I also believe that the episode with the crew gushing all over MEchelle and such was just that- gushing BS.  They had to know the end was coming and were trying to save the family.  I'm sure the children are sweet and adorable- but the stuff that has gone on behind the scenes is coming out.  I think they knew the end was near and did everything in their power to prevent it. 

[NextIteration]

So do I have this right?  The police record was expunged on behalf of a minor "Jane Doe" and the timing of this is almost exact with the InTouch posting of the police record?

 

So... it seems like someone inside the clan thought it was important for this story to get out and tipped off InTouch to request the FOI just in time?

[HumblePi]

I wonder what Josh and Anna will do now, and where they will live. It's doubtful Josh will have another job any time soon. Perhaps they will live in an RV in the Duggar backyard? Or maybe they will all  cram into Ben's old bedroom in the Duggar barn?

 

I feel very sorry for Josh's children, whose lives will be turned upside down over this.

AND I wonder if Anna will continue to have a baby for Josh every couple of years, 4 children now in a span of 5 years. Truthfully, Anna's face is showing the strain in my opinion.

[SometimesBites]

With all due respect to the writer of the Washington Post opinion piece, proposing the notion that this ugly turn of events in the Duggars’ lives could somehow engender a more interesting bit of reality TV is to completely ignore the nature of what this show is intended to do: make TLC and its sponsors lots and lots of money.

 

The implied premise of 19 Kids and Counting:

 

“Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar have a WONDERFUL family that is WONDERFUL because…JESUS! Their family is not only WONDERFUL, but is SUPER WONDERFUL and SUPER-FUNCTIONAL because…JESUS! Yes, they have a humongous number of children, but look at them…awwwww, cute as a litter of puppies! And you could probably learn a thing or two about family life from them because they have ALL THE ANSWERS! They’re frugal! They’re sweet! They’re musical! They love Tater-Tots!”

 

Jim Bob and Michelle’s premise is all of the above, plus:

 

“Our family—unlike most of you benighted, godless losers—has all the answers, AND we’re going to do you the favor of letting you watch us do it RIGHT!”

 

The actual premise of this show:

 

TLC and its sponsors have figured out that the old traveling freak show concept is a 21st century money machine. Viewers don’t want ACTUAL reality. They want a PERCEIVED reality. They want freak show versions of humdrum family life: the fundies, the plygs, the straight wife/gay husband couples, the crude and obese pageant mama, the mail order brides—on and on it goes.

 

It’s smoke and mirrors. It’s the freak show. It pays.

 

Of course, the premise never ever survives ACTUAL REALITY.

 

Actual reality is messy and unpredictable and often cruel, mean, and petty. The way this situation with the Duggars haS come out--like slicing into a shiny pink apple and finding a black worm hole at the core--has the words of Yeats’ poem “Second Coming” running over and over through my head:

 

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

 

IMO, the best thing for the Duggars and for all the viewers who have been roped into the Duggar fantasy, is for them to GET OFF TV. Sounds like TLC is scrambling to keep it alive, but let’s get real—no one will ever be able to watch it the same way again. Let’s hope the sponsors pull out. Once they do, fade to black, and back to their actual flawed and problematic life.

Edited May 23, 2015 by SometimesBites

[poopchute]

Someone posted in the comments of that Gawker article that it's fairly common knowledge that Josh frequented strip clubs. This is news to me...how did he get away with that??

[starfire]

CofCinci, on 23 May 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Josh and Anna do own a home there now. It's not very liveable but they could easily live in one or two rooms will JB, Josh and some of the rando sons help remodel, which was most likely the plan this whole time.

I'm texting one of my friends now who is a court-appointed victim advocate. She believes it would take weeks for the destroy records request to actually make it to the Judge. Was this something the family has worked on for a few weeks prior to the media learning about it?

Is the house they bought in the DC area or is it near the Duggar compound...or somewhere else? Thanks!

[natyxg]

So do I have this right?  The police record was expunged on behalf of a minor "Jane Doe" and the timing of this is almost exact with the InTouch posting of the police record?

 

So... it seems like someone inside the clan thought it was important for this story to get out and tipped off InTouch to request the FOI just in time?

 

Does it take a long time to get the record expunged? I thought they just reacted to the news getting out, so other people could not get it and dare to release the names. If they did not do this for over a decade, I figure it was because it never crossed their minds before.

[auntieminem]

Now this article is saying that Josh went away for treatment not the contractor story.  Or am I confused on the time?   Of course the treatment was a Gothard center.   

http://www.inquisitr.com/2113744/treatment-facility-josh-duggar-attended-for-4-months-following-molestation-allegations-revealed/

[DollEyes]

More thoughts:

 

  First of all, to all the posters who are survivors of sexual abuse: thank you for telling your stories. My heart goes out to all of you. As for the Duggars, while I've never watched their show because I knew that there was something wrong with/about them (an understatement), I feel sorry for Josh's victims and his children. Their pain gives me no pleasure whatsoever. They need to get off camera and start living some semblance of a "normal" life, which includes choosing their own beliefs, their own clothes and their own friends, even if they're the opposite sex.

 

  About Mike Huckabee, yikes! Hypocritical much, asshole? IIRC, Huckabee not only wasn't very forgiving of Former President Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky, he wanted him impeached. At least Clinton's fling-tacky & stupid as it was-was between consenting adults; Josh's crimes-and that's what they were-otoh, were neither consentual nor involved adults. Would Huckabee trust Josh with his daughters? I doubt it. Like Josh, JB & Michelle, Huckabee epitomizes the old saying "It is far better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt."

 

  This whole mess is both an SNL sketch and an L&O: SVU episode begging to happen.

Edited May 23, 2015 by DollEyes

[Wellfleet]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars:  http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

 

Wow. Just - wow. This is truly eye-opening. And validating to me to a certain extent as well. My, what delicate little hothouse flowers Boob & Me-chelle were/are. Also puts a whole new spin on that "Behind the Scene" show with the crew. Complete and utter crap. PS - I hope "Jimmy" was sent to work on the The Little Couple production. Now THAT would be fun!

[SometimesBites]

It looks like the police records into the investigation have been ordered to be destroyed.

 

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/josh_duggars_police_records_ordered_destroyed-2015-05

Guess they haven't heard of the internet. Oops!

[RazzleberryPie]

Wow. Just - wow. This is truly eye-opening. And validating to me to a certain extent as well. My, what delicate little hothouse flowers Boob & Me-chelle were/are. Also puts a whole new spin on that "Behind the Scene" show with the crew. Complete and utter crap. PS - I hope "Jimmy" was sent to work on the The Little Couple production. Now THAT would be fun!

I hope Jimmy went there, too. Now if the Little Couple has a scandal, I will actually be devastated. That's the only reality couple that i hold any standards or credibility to. They seem like really good people. 

[NikSac]

There's definitely more to this story than has been published so far. I mean, this began to unravel due to a note found in a book from the Duggar home?

 

A book? Not possible.

 

(^^ lame attempt at humor in a dark situation) 

 

I had the same response to the sections of the police report that talked about books. One child liked reading Adventure and Princess stories - really?  And Josh was reading a book to the kids while the older ones and parents were out to dinner? (about a raccoon or something - not Jesus)  I was very surprised. Especially the types of books mentioned.

[Ljohnson1987]

Duggar social media has basically stopped. I guess Smugs has nothing to post about now that he's not telling us that homosexuals are bad. Hypocrite

[NextIteration]

Does it take a long time to get the record expunged? I thought they just reacted to the news getting out, so other people could not get it and dare to release the names. If they did not do this for over a decade, I figure it was because it never crossed their minds before.

 

That's why I am confused about the timing, or what triggered which.  The judge signed of on the order to expunge the record on May 21st - the same day as the InTouch posting. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by NextIteration

[JenCarroll]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars:  http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

Among a lot of feelings about this whole thing (righteous outrage prevailing), Ive been thinking: A lot of us have noticed that production standards have been dropping; the editing has been amateurish and sometimes incoherent; and the story lines are tired. Now we find out that they've been pruning their crew choices with priority on finding people who won't offend Jim Bob and Michelle. I am not saying professed Christians are less competent in their field -- of course I'm not saying that, it would be absurd. But you have to admit, it gives them a much smaller pool of talent to draw from. If they've been making their hiring choices based on the personal values of the workers rather than their skill, it's not that surprising that the overall quality (IMO) has dropped.

[Cherrio]

I have to say that anyone that is feeling sorry for the cast and crew- don't.  They have a contract and the union and will be paid regardless.  Sure, they will have to relocate for the next show, but this is how the business works.  And, I would hope that after reading all the new info coming out, they would want to leave. 

 

My thought is that if Oprah got a letter detailing all this info- TLC did as well.  I think they chose to ignore it. I also believe that the episode with the crew gushing all over MEchelle and such was just that- gushing BS.  They had to know the end was coming and were trying to save the family.  I'm sure the children are sweet and adorable- but the stuff that has gone on behind the scenes is coming out.  I think they knew the end was near and did everything in their power to prevent it. 

I posted many pages ago about the crew, but I will say again that these TLC crews have always seen things, really bad things on many shows and have never once done a thing about it.     Yes, they sign agreements and have to make a living, but I would rather live under a bridge and make minimum wage than ever go along and keep my mouth shut.   Mr. Jim is a piece of shit, just like the rest of them. 

          It just cements the opinion of TLC , the people who work for them and the shows. Make money, fuck the children.

[HumblePi]

Duggar social media has basically stopped. I guess Smugs has nothing to post about now that he's not telling us that homosexuals are bad. Hypocrite

Here's some consolation. Josh is getting bald fast. Not only will he be a fat old man, he'll be a bald AND fat old man. Even God has a sense of humor.

 

Edited May 23, 2015 by HumblePi

[P2C2E]

I'm guessing the book was from this series which is very religious. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1555130887/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_1?refRID=1X1T48RMHAY4N9SX942Y

[Wellfleet]

This make me simultaneously want to vomit and punch the screen. With what we know about what at TLC knew what when, I hope hope the entire goddamn network goes down. Rage. :(

 

My sentiments exactly. Eff 'em. I won't shed Tear One if the network goes down. They had many opportunities to do the right thing and didn't.

[SometimesBites]

Former TLC employees and crew members are encouraged to write Gawker with details of their interactions with the Duggars:  http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-duggar-tales-did-michelle-duggar-get-a-gay-c-1706502185

Here is one, where Michelle got a gay crew member fired:

This is great reading, and I'd love to buy "Jimmy" a beer for his answer to Michelle! Not that I'm surprised by her stunted, insulated world view--this is a woman who has said that overpopulation is a "myth," because the entire human population could stand shoulder-to-shoulder and fit in the state of Texas. You can't make this shit up.

[CofCinci]

That's why I am confused about the timing, or what triggered which. The judge signed of on the order to expunge the record on May 21st - the same day as the InTouch posting.

I'm starting to wonder if someone within the courthouse saw the case was on the docket for the judge to rule on and then leaked the document? Edited May 23, 2015 by CofCinci

[Wellfleet]

With all that's coming to light, it really seems impossible to imagine there will be any sponsors that will come forward and proudly sponsor the show from this point out. IF the Duggars do want to continue, for whatever reason, and IF TLC decides to move forward as well? I for one would carpet-bomb any organization that did sponsor them with letters, e-mails, phone calls - that's for sure. And I know I'm not alone in that... 

[Cherrio]

This is great reading, and I'd love to buy "Jimmy" a beer for his answer to Michelle! Not that I'm surprised by her stunted, insulated world view--this is a woman who has said that overpopulation is a "myth," because the entire human population could stand shoulder-to-shoulder and fit in the state of Texas. You can't make this shit up.

It was well written and I can see that scenario happening , but these people sign confidentially agreements that last a long time. So, while it is my hope this person is the first decent person to climb out of the TLC cesspool.....it could also be made up.        Maybe now that the shit has hit the fan crew and former crew will just let it all out because they know they can now.     If TLC starts suing them, it just makes them look worse and they are already in side hug hell.