Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CandyXmasTree]

31 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Nah, I don’t. I don’t think anybody wants to watch Duggar 3.0. As it is now, they are all interchangeable and, let’s face it, more boring than watching paint dry. Now, if it is about one of them breaking away big time and spilling all the tea, we’ll talk.

The only show that I want to see is Smuggar the first60 days.

 

[Cinnabon]

42 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Nah, I don’t. I don’t think anybody wants to watch Duggar 3.0. As it is now, they are all interchangeable and, let’s face it, more boring than watching paint dry. Now, if it is about one of them breaking away big time and spilling all the tea, we’ll talk.

Agree. No Duggar should ever be on tv again. They all still ascribe to the same hateful, dangerous beliefs, period. 

10 minutes ago, CandyXmasTree said:

The only show that I want to see is Smuggar the first60 days.

 

Now this one I’d make an exception for. 

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

Nah, I don’t. I don’t think anybody wants to watch Duggar 3.0.

All I was is for that piece of slime Jboobs head to explode.

[iwantcookies]

5 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm hoping some cable network bypasses JBoob and approaches a few of the kids, probably the married ones and offers them something. And they get their own contract and the boob has nothing to do with any of it.

The only ones I can see getting a spin off is Jinger and Jeremy

or

Anna if she left Josh

The rest are BORING 

[Westiepeach]

19 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

The only ones I can see getting a spin off is Jinger and Jeremy

or

Anna if she left Josh

The rest are BORING 

Jingle and Jeremy are just as boring as the rest of them. The only difference is they are in LA. And they have more shoes. 

[hathorlive]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:07 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I just got a new router today.  I hope it behaves itself.

I hope you put a tin foil hat on it.  You need to make sure it's not out there downloading bad stuff to your computer.  Or making your fridge change the ice from cubes to crushed.

[hathorlive]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:23 PM, Nysha said:

After reading all the post trial legal documents I'm beginning to think Perry Mason did not accurately depict court room behavior. Damn Duggars, another childhood memory ripped to shreds! 😁

I'm still trying to figure out how shows like CSI have forensic experts who do autopsies and crack iPhone passcodes. Because if I'm supposed to do THAT kind of forensics, my boss is paying me too much.

[auntieminem]

So there was another filing?  I don't understand how this is different from the first. Sounds like more of the same failed arguments.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/duggar-defense-responds-states-that-the-law-requires-a-new-trial-or-acquittal/

[hathorlive]

On 2/18/2022 at 9:36 AM, madpsych78 said:

IF the sentence is long enough (e.g., 20 years), Josh's own children will likely be legal adults by the time he gets out. Even M7. So his being around his own children may be a moot point. The bigger question may be whether he could be around his grandchildren, which he may likely have in 20 years. 

Josh isn't getting close to 20 years.  We'll be lucky if the Judge writes up a special circumstance for his sister molestation showing he is a contact offender and gives him 12 years.  I assume he'll get anywhere from 8 to 10 years.  

[hathorlive]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:07 PM, madpsych78 said:

If the plea deal was 10 years, then the actual sentencing has got to be more than ten years. Give him extra time because he didn't own up to his guilt.

Nope.  I've had many federal cases where the perp turned down a plea deal and got the exact same sentence that was offered.  And this "more time" because he doesn't admit guilt thing....I've never seen a single person admit guilt and I've never seen it up their sentence.  But that's just my experience.  

 

[Not Buyin It]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:53 PM, Westiepeach said:

Nah, I don’t. I don’t think anybody wants to watch Duggar 3.0. As it is now, they are all interchangeable and, let’s face it, more boring than watching paint dry. Now, if it is about one of them breaking away big time and spilling all the tea, we’ll talk.

I would watch. I love the Duggars: ALL of them.

 

[hathorlive]

OMG.  WOACB is saying that the second charge must be considered in the sentencing report because Josh's lawyers are trying to get it dismissed.  Can we start a drinking game where we all do a shot when she suggests Josh is getting 40 years?  In these cases, where a defendant is found guilty on possession and receipt, the second charge is always considered a lesser, included offense.  40 years??? I'm just exhausted. 

[farmgal4]

45 minutes ago, Not Buyin It said:

I would watch. I love the Duggars: ALL of them.

 

You may not be in the right forum, my friend.

[Cinnabon]

57 minutes ago, Not Buyin It said:

I would watch. I love the Duggars: ALL of them.

 

Josh says hi.

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Nope.  I've had many federal cases where the perp turned down a plea deal and got the exact same sentence that was offered.  And this "more time" because he doesn't admit guilt thing....I've never seen a single person admit guilt and I've never seen it up their sentence.  But that's just my experience.  

 

Yeah but, doesn't my court room experience via Perry Mason (reruns!) count for anything?!? His bad guys were always found guilty and given harsh sentences.

35 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

OMG.  WOACB is saying that the second charge must be considered in the sentencing report because Josh's lawyers are trying to get it dismissed.  Can we start a drinking game where we all do a shot when she suggests Josh is getting 40 years?  In these cases, where a defendant is found guilty on possession and receipt, the second charge is always considered a lesser, included offense.  40 years??? I'm just exhausted. 

Hopefully, we can all get adjoining rooms at drug rehab. 😄

[iwantcookies]

4 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Josh isn't getting close to 20 years.  We'll be lucky if the Judge writes up a special circumstance for his sister molestation showing he is a contact offender and gives him 12 years.  I assume he'll get anywhere from 8 to 10 years.  

He might be home to walk Mac down the isle. 
 

 

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

He might be home to walk Mac down the isle. 
 

 

Only if she marries in her 20s. I bet that one marries young to get the hell out. 

[Cinnabon]

9 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Only if she marries in her 20s. I bet that one marries young to get the hell out. 

And only if she wants him to be there. That’s not a given, imo.

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Yeah but, doesn't my court room experience via Perry Mason (reruns!) count for anything?!? His bad guys were always found guilty and given harsh sentences.

Hopefully, we can all get adjoining rooms at drug rehab. 😄

LOL.  Thank you for the laugh. I needed it today.  My puppy broke my roommates finger.  Our neighbor had a psychotic break and after 3 months of terrorizing my floor (we had GUARDS outside my door for 12 weeks), he got hauled off for a psych eval.  The world is at war.  And Josh Duggar is STILL not getting 20 years.  Thank you for attending my Ted Talk.  Now where are those drugs???

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

And only if she wants him to be there. That’s not a given, imo.

Ofsmuggar will do her damndest* to make sure Smuggar is at all kid weddings, whether the kids want him there or not. I can see her exerting major pressure on her kids.

 

*This, of course, assumes that Anna does not undergo a major change of heart while Smuggar is incarcerated. 

[quarks]

7 hours ago, auntieminem said:

So there was another filing?  I don't understand how this is different from the first. Sounds like more of the same failed arguments.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/duggar-defense-responds-states-that-the-law-requires-a-new-trial-or-acquittal/

It's the defense responding to the prosecution's response to the defense filing after the trial, so, yeah, nothing all that new - basically a repeat of the "You didn't let us question Caleb Williams on the stand, so, mistrial!" and some not very interesting stuff about geolocation. 

I'll just add that the more everyone talks about Caleb Williams, the more I'm convinced that the defense wouldn't and shouldn't have called him as a witness. So to me, at least, the defense is not presenting a very good argument. But to be fair, I want Josh in jail, so I'm not really the most unbiased reader here.

[MargeGunderson]

With respect to Caleb Williams, the prosecution didn’t prevent the defense from calling Caleb Williams, the defense simply didn’t call him to testify. So the defense regrets not calling Williams and now wants a do-over. I don’t think that’s how it works.

[Rootbeer]

12 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

And only if she wants him to be there. That’s not a given, imo.

Mac is being raised the way that all like-minded fundies raise their kids: Mama and Papa must be obeyed instantly.  No opinions that differ from theirs will be tolerated.  Every child will 'keep sweet' and parrot the party line.  No way Mac turns on Josh unless Anna does so first.  And, from what we've seen so far, that isn't happening.  Josh will walk Mac down the aisle and she will gaze at him adoringly as he does.  No other options will be acceptable.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

With respect to Caleb Williams, the prosecution didn’t prevent the defense from calling Caleb Williams, the defense simply didn’t call him to testify. So the defense regrets not calling Williams and now wants a do-over. I don’t think that’s how it works.

As per the defense, it was more that Caleb Williams contacted the prosecution with some additional info shortly before the trial - additional info that the defense claims they could have used to prove that someone not named Josh Duggar downloaded the CSAM - and did not inform the defense about this in a timely matter. Which, the defense argues, is enough to require a new trial.  And since the prosecution is required to turn over anything that might be exculpatory evidence, I think this might be a valid argument requiring a new trial. 

The defense is also claiming that they couldn't have Caleb Williams on the stand because the judge told them they could not bring up Williams' prior convictions - something they were presumably going to be use as part of their, "why is the prosecution going after Josh when there was a convict on the car lot RIGHT THERE?"  

Which, ok, again, maybe valid? But based on statements from both the defense and the prosecution, Caleb Williams sounds like an extremely unreliable witness who also, for whatever reason, wanted to see Josh in jail - and I think the jury would have realized that.  It's also hard not to notice that the prosecution took one look at this mess, and decided that everyone was better off not hearing from Williams - a decision I tend to agree with. I'm not convinced that any element of his testimony would have done much, if anything, to help either side; I think the jury would have just said, yeah, this is not the most believable person we've encountered, ignored Williams, and focused on other elements of the trial. 

But that's just my reading of the situation. I have no idea what a judge might say. 

[dariafan]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

Mac is being raised the way that all like-minded fundies raise their kids: Mama and Papa must be obeyed instantly.  No opinions that differ from theirs will be tolerated.  Every child will 'keep sweet' and parrot the party line.  No way Mac turns on Josh unless Anna does so first.  And, from what we've seen so far, that isn't happening.  Josh will walk Mac down the aisle and she will gaze at him adoringly as he does.  No other options will be acceptable.

She will get to have a child free wedding   It sickens me they will be raised thinking he is doing the lords work while in prison 

[Quilt Fairy]

The court transcript of the evidentiary hearing from 11/29/21 is available.  This is hearing that contains the "I'm not going to allow that" comment by Jim Bob.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yy9773pzhe2whw4/Evidentiary Hearing Transcript 11-29-21.pdf?dl=0

[emmawoodhouse]

17 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

The court transcript of the evidentiary hearing from 11/29/21 is available.  This is hearing that contains the "I'm not going to allow that" comment by Jim Bob.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yy9773pzhe2whw4/Evidentiary Hearing Transcript 11-29-21.pdf?dl=0

I posted about it a couple of days ago in the Boobchelle thread. Boob did not comport himself well. 😂 

[hathorlive]

14 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I posted about it a couple of days ago in the Boobchelle thread. Boob did not comport himself well. 😂 

I love his dismal of his daughters' sexual assaults' by saying "and I don't remember which one or whatever".  Great, way to minimize and dismiss what happened to your daughters.  But I guess with 19 kids, you say "which ever one" on a daily basis because you know nothing about your kids. 

[auntieminem]

4 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I love his dismal of his daughters' sexual assaults' by saying "and I don't remember which one or whatever".  Great, way to minimize and dismiss what happened to your daughters.  But I guess with 19 kids, you say "which ever one" on a daily basis because you know nothing about your kids. 

Yet he could remember Josh coming to them confessing (he forgot the part where Josh got caught so had to confess). His memory is very selective. Also his lying seems to be ok instead of a sin. How does he and his kids not have a problem with that? 

[SnapHappy]

Is nobody going to wish Dumpling a happy 34th birthday? 

No virtual drippy sundae for the lucky guy?

I'm SHOCKED!

I wonder what kind of cake he gets in jail.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by SnapHappy

[merylinkid]

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I love his dismal of his daughters' sexual assaults' by saying "and I don't remember which one or whatever".  Great, way to minimize and dismiss what happened to your daughters.  But I guess with 19 kids, you say "which ever one" on a daily basis because you know nothing about your kids. 

Or it happened so many times it was hard to keep straight.

Honestly can the judge send JB to jail right along with FF?   Or double FF's time just for having JB as a dad?*

 

*Yes I know due process but I can dream can't I?

[hathorlive]

5 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Or it happened so many times it was hard to keep straight.

Honestly can the judge send JB to jail right along with FF?   Or double FF's time just for having JB as a dad?*

 

*Yes I know due process but I can dream can't I?

I hope the four sisters are reading this.  And understanding it was never about stopping Josh from sexually abusing them, it was about covering it up and not letting his rep get damaged.  What kind of sick man does this?  Jim Bob is just evil.  He warps and twists religion to keep himself rich and in control of people's lives.  If he has to lie, well, then god understands.  JB has him on speed dial.

[Nysha]

3 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Also his lying seems to be ok instead of a sin. How does he and his kids not have a problem with that? 

Because JB and his kids don't really believe what they preach. They may think they believe, but if they did, the sins they call out on other people would still be sins when they commit them.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Nysha
Put a comma between did & the. Not totally positive it needed one, but it's there now.

[Cinnabon]

And remember, JB advocated the death penalty for sex offenders at one time.

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I hope the four sisters are reading this.  And understanding it was never about stopping Josh from sexually abusing them, it was about covering it up and not letting his rep get damaged.  What kind of sick man does this?  Jim Bob is just evil.  He warps and twists religion to keep himself rich and in control of people's lives.  If he has to lie, well, then god understands.  JB has him on speed dial.

But they did try and stop Josh. And they did quite the opposite of covering it up. First they believed and acknowledged it happened. Then they sent Josh away, they arranged bedrooms to provide more safety and they put cameras in their home. JB's family, friends, church and community all knew what happened.

Many families don't believe the accusers, many deny and/or ignore it even happened. Most don't tell a soul outside of a trusted friend or in some cases, law enforcement and/or a therapist. Many times the abuser stays in the home and is never punished.

[BigBingerBro]

Josh Duggar Molestation Victim Attempted to Fight Him Off, Court Documents Reveal

[KAOS Agent]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

But they did try and stop Josh. And they did quite the opposite of covering it up. First they believed and acknowledged it happened.

The question is whether this happened because there was a non-related victim of his acts or whether they truly did want to address things for their other children. If all of the victims were within the family, especially a family as insular as the Duggars, maybe they never would have done anything to acknowledge it. The whole locks on the doors and the trip to dig a ditch or whatever Josh was sent off to do might have been it and no one outside the Duggar family would ever have known anything about it. 

However, there was someone else who was clearly believed and reported it to someone. At that point, it was out in the open and they needed to do something to seem like they were addressing it. Court testimony shows that Josh was acting badly for years and they knew about it. So what changed to make them actually address it with others? Why were Josh and his victims suddenly discussing this in front of their church and a police report being filed? Something spurred them to act when they had done the bare minimum for years. Isn't a good explanation that he made a mistake by going after Jane Doe #5? There are numerous reasons why this person wouldn't want to push too hard about Josh, but I can see the people who care about her privately demanding more be done to deal with him. And since it wouldn't be widely known that other victims existed or the extent of his actions towards them, it might not have seemed to be as big a deal to them. A repressed teenage boy who touches a girl against her will is very bad, but it's much worse when put in the context of years of abuse of others which had been largely ignored. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

The question is whether this happened because there was a non-related victim of his acts or whether they truly did want to address things for their other children. If all of the victims were within the family, especially a family as insular as the Duggars, maybe they never would have done anything to acknowledge it. The whole locks on the doors and the trip to dig a ditch or whatever Josh was sent off to do might have been it and no one outside the Duggar family would ever have known anything about it. 

However, there was someone else who was clearly believed and reported it to someone. At that point, it was out in the open and they needed to do something to seem like they were addressing it. Court testimony shows that Josh was acting badly for years and they knew about it. So what changed to make them actually address it with others? Why were Josh and his victims suddenly discussing this in front of their church and a police report being filed? Something spurred them to act when they had done the bare minimum for years. Isn't a good explanation that he made a mistake by going after Jane Doe #5? There are numerous reasons why this person wouldn't want to push too hard about Josh, but I can see the people who care about her privately demanding more be done to deal with him. And since it wouldn't be widely known that other victims existed or the extent of his actions towards them, it might not have seemed to be as big a deal to them. A repressed teenage boy who touches a girl against her will is very bad, but it's much worse when put in the context of years of abuse of others which had been largely ignored. 

I agree the entire situation is awful and I'm by no means fans of JB and M or their parenting. There certainly are many unknowns, but as I have said many times before - they did something, which unfortunately is more than what happens in many situations like this. I personally don't see JB & M as evil and intentionally abusive parents. I think they actually love all their kids, but raised them in a fucked up way, but not with purposeful abusive intent.

Even if they were cold and uncaring parents - they still did something. Even if it was only to rid themselves of a problem - they still did something. And they certainly didn't cover it up.

But again, I think JB & M found themselves in the middle of an unimaginable nightmare and did the best they could. Maybe their best wasn't good enough, but they did try, and I'm not really sure how this would have unfolded in a 'best case' scenario.

The most important thing JB & M did was believe the accusers. It was probably one of the hardest things they ever did too, because their son, who they also love, was the abuser. Its important because as far as long term impact on survivors of sexual abuse, being believed does the most in regard to recovery.

Again, I'm no fan of JB & M. I'm certainly not a fan of their parenting. I also understand saying they did 'something' is a low bar, but unfortunately that low bar is a societal norm that has been way to slow in changing.

[ginger90]

I think it came down to, all sins are equal.
 

They handled it in a religious way. Others may have gone to the police initially. Some may have beaten him. Some may have kicked him out. Many other examples exist.

[hathorlive]

17 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

And remember, JB advocated the death penalty for sex offenders at one time.

But Josh ISN'T a sex offender.  Sex offenders are people like those trans people trying to use the women's bathrooms.  Josh was just a curious kid.  And this is the key point, HE TOLD his parents what he did.  So that's not a sex offender.  Him sexually assaulting's his sisters doesn't count.  Score one for Team Hypocrite. 

[farmgal4]

22 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I love his dismal of his daughters' sexual assaults' by saying "and I don't remember which one or whatever".  Great, way to minimize and dismiss what happened to your daughters.  But I guess with 19 kids, you say "which ever one" on a daily basis because you know nothing about your kids. 

He actually said that????? 

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

He actually said that????? 

Per the transcript, yep.  We heard about it at the time, but reading it was just brutal.   I feel so sorry for those girls.

[farmgal4]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

Per the transcript, yep.  We heard about it at the time, but reading it was just brutal.   I feel so sorry for those girls.

May that worthless bastard rot in Hell! 😡

[GeeGolly]

This was just posted on my FB feed. I think it not only shows what Gothard created some of his bullshit from, but also shows that while those in the Gothard cult were given (100% wrong) explicit messages on rape culture, the rest of us live with (100% wrong) implicit messages.

 

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I think it came down to, all sins are equal.
 

They handled it in a religious way. Others may have gone to the police initially. Some may have beaten him. Some may have kicked him out. Many other examples exist.

But JB was openly advocating for the death penalty for sexual offenders at that same time. But then again, they are nothing if not lying hypocrites who think they’re better than the rest of us heathens. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

Josh’s birthday wasn’t forgotten by the tabs. i wonder how much money Anna spent on video chatting with him. 
 

Josh Duggar marks ‘sad’ 34th birthday in prison after child porn conviction

https://nypost.com/2022/03/03/josh-duggars-sad-34th-birthday-in-jail-after-child-porn-conviction/amp/

[DXD526]

Some fancy wordplay in that article from a 'family friend', who said, speaking about Anna and the Duggs: "Even if they don't like what he did, or what he was accused and charged with and found guilty of, they'll always stay by him." Sounds like not everybody thinks he did anything wrong, but they have to abide by the judgement, because he was 'accused and charged and found guilty'. That pesky law tripped up his poor, innocent azz.

That denial likely applies to Anna, who probably thinks he's being persecuted because Jesus, and he's really a martyr. *barf*

I also enjoyed his lawyer trying to shift the blame anywhere and everywhere during the trial, saying the case was, "a classic, old fashioned whodunit".

Not to the jury.

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

Some fancy wordplay in that article from a 'family friend', who said, speaking about Anna and the Duggs: "Even if they don't like what he did, or what he was accused and charged with and found guilty of, they'll always stay by him." Sounds like not everybody thinks he did anything wrong, but they have to abide by the judgement, because he was 'accused and charged and found guilty'. That pesky law tripped up his poor, innocent azz.

That denial likely applies to Anna, who probably thinks he's being persecuted because Jesus, and he's really a martyr. *barf*

I also enjoyed his lawyer trying to shift the blame anywhere and everywhere during the trial, saying the case was, "a classic, old fashioned whodunit".

Not to the jury.

Who is this alleged “family friend?” What a bunch of nonsense .

[Zella]

Would also like to point out that Jim Bob didn't just advocate for the death penalty for rape. He also called for it for incest too. 

[quarks]

I don't expect Josh to be shunned by all of his family members. But contrary to that "family friend," I think we've seen plenty of evidence to suggest that at least some of the Duggarlings are distinctly not staying with Josh and may continue to avoid him post jail.