Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[RazzleberryPie]

Ben and Derrick and their families would have known Jessa and Jill were molested. Before they were have agreed to the courtship, the families would have sat down and had the courters confess their sins. Jessa and Jill would not have named names because it's their sins to confess, no one else's. The new families also wouldn't have been told about extent of the abuse.

Anna would have had a similar debriefing with her parents and Josh with his parents, which it sounds like she did. Whether he told her it was his sisters he molested is anyone's guess.

I assume the family friend that wrote the letter would have either been the father of the mysterious other girl or Jim Holt, since they would have had a pre-courtship sinner meeting.

Ben and Derrick's families were not Gothard/ATI, so would all this confessing have happened? Derrick seemed conservative Southern Baptist, and Ben's family is Vision Forum. Neither are anywhere near as kooky as Gothard ATI. I don't think Ben's family knew ANYTHING about this, or they wouldn't have let him live there.

 

Now Anna, she says they discussed it, he repented, and they pursued the courtship. Either her parents are extremely trusting and forgiving, or they're as big of shyster's as JimBob, for marrying Anna to Josh and also TFDW to Priscilla. Just think, all this time, we were certain TFDW was the one with the biggest skeletons in the closet.

[cmr2014]

Just a couple of unrelated thoughts:

 

Mary was mentioned in the e-mail to Harpo as one of the ring-leaders of the dog-and-pony show. I have always seen her as very passive, and as not particularly into the whole Gothard thing. That was a big surprise to me.

 

I checked on the FOIA. A government agency has 20 working days -- about a month -- to turn over a document. They can take another 10 working days if they need to transfer the request to another department, and/or another 20 working days if they have to get more information from the requester. A lot of people have speculated that JB and J'chelle knew this was coming, and I think that's very possible. They certainly knew enough in advance to be able to send someone to the sheriff's office to try to get the report destroyed.

 

It appears that this was something of an open secret in NW Arkansas. I wonder if this was why Josh went to DC. I could see someone who liked him -- like Huckabee -- putting in a good word for him with the FRC so that he could get away from all the rumors and start fresh.

[TheFinalRose]

#8 on that worksheet is the WORST. "If you had to choose no physical abuse or growing spiritually?  

 

Clearly they are meant to choose growing spiritually as the CORRECT answer. 

[BitterApple]

How? They're all JD. (No offense, Turk.)

JD is John David Duggar. Technically all the kids are J.Duggars, but John David is the only one referred to by his initials.

[ThinkerBell]

I decided to come here and post because I cannot reply to all the stuff about this on Facebook in fear of "offending" an aunt whose boyfriend molested me when I was 10 years old. Then I came across this and I want to address it first.

Those daughters (if it was the daughters) had NO CHOICE about their lives being lived out on television. Even now that they are grown they probably feel that have no choice based on the patriarchal life they have lead. These are not young women who lived the life that most girls live. They should have the same rights as any other victim of sexual assault. Just because they are on TV does not make them less of a victim.

As a victim of molestation my heart breaks for those girls especially if it was the ones named. I was married 10 years before I told my husband about my molestation; it was on my time table when I was ready. If the victims are the ones named and they did not share this with their spouse yet, it makes me really sad that they are having to not only relive this in the media but also having to explain it to their husbands on SOMEONE ELSE'S time table.

Agree 100%. I too was a victim of molestation. It took years for me to feel safe enough in a relationship to finally, and gradually, disclose my secret. My heart breaks for these girls whose story was theirs to tell, or not to tell. Respect and hugs to you, CoolMom. Edited May 23, 2015 by ThinkerBell

[mynextmistake]

If we're to believe the reported stories, that's not the case. If we're to believe the reported stories, JB and the elders took Josh to a Statie, a year after the offenses, and the Statie said there would be follow up, but there never was, and the Duggars didn't mind that (which I can understand). The problem is, the Statie never followed up, and then later was convicted and sentenced 55 years for child porn. In the meantime, the statue of limitations ran out.

I haven't seen any stories that indicate that the State Trooper said there would be follow-up or that the report was an official one. Everything I have seen indicates that the selected trooper had a personal relationship with Jim Bob and did nothing beyond lecture Josh. Source? I'm not being confrontational; if I'm wrong about this I would like to know.

ETA: In the police report, Jim Bob claims that he took Josh to the troopers officially but the trooper with whom he spoke (who was a personal acquaintance) told them that he didn't need to file an offical report. If this is true, then it puts things in a different light. Jim Bob is still a terrible father, but he's maybe not quite as bad as I initally concluded.

Edited May 23, 2015 by mynextmistake

[Saylii]

Ben and Derrick's families were not Gothard/ATI, so would all this confessing have happened? Derrick seemed conservative Southern Baptist, and Ben's family is Vision Forum. Neither are anywhere near as kooky as Gothard ATI. I don't think Ben's family knew ANYTHING about this, or they wouldn't have let him live there.

Now Anna, she says they discussed it, he repented, and they pursued the courtship. Either her parents are extremely trusting and forgiving, or they're as big of shyster's as JimBob, for marrying Anna to Josh and also TFDW to Priscilla. Just think, all this time, we were certain TFDW was the one with the biggest skeletons in the closet.

It still should have happened, as long as the Seewald's and Dillard's believed in courting. Now in Derick's case, they might not have required Cathy to be there since he was older and technically the head of his family. I think if Ben told his dad that he didn't care about the molestation, that he still wanted to marry her, and that he wanted to move onto the property to protect her, his dad would have little to say.

I haven't seen any stories that indicate that the State Trooper said there would be follow-up or that the report was an official one. Everything I have seen indicates that the selected trooper had a personal relationship with Jim Bob and did nothing beyond lecture Josh. Source? I'm not being confrontational; if I'm wrong about this I would like to know.

The Springdale Police must have thought the report Josh and Jim Bob made to the State Trooper was good enough to start the three years. There are also some states that allow reporting abuse to church elders to start the clock, which may have come into the decision that the statute of limitations had passed. Edited May 23, 2015 by Saylii

[xls]

Anderson Cooper, who's gay, and was aware of the Duggar's views, once did a whole episode interview with the Duggars. He didn't bring up homsexuality, and asked total softball questions. I'm so angry that the media perpetrated the lies, and now gets ratings tearing the family down. Honestly, every reporter that asked softball questions is on the hook.

Its surreal how gingerly the news medial has treated them through the years. Not one expose'? 

[HumblePi]

Josh and Anna's website

 

We apologize for the inconvenience, but unfortunately this website is currently unavailable.

If you are the web hosting account owner, please contact us at your earliest convenience. Our customer service team is available 24x7 via phone or email:

Email: support@inmotionhosting.com
Phone: 1-888-321-4678 (1-757-416-6575 Int'l)

 

We cannot disclose any information regarding this account if you are not its owner or authorized party.
For the security and privacy of our customers, all account requests are verified prior to the disclosure of account information

 

TLC pulled all scheduled episodes of 19 Kids and Counting.   Bye Duggars

Edited May 23, 2015 by HumblePi

[Fuzzysox]

Just a couple of unrelated thoughts:

 

Mary was mentioned in the e-mail to Harpo as one of the ring-leaders of the dog-and-pony show. I have always seen her as very passive, and as not particularly into the whole Gothard thing. That was a big surprise to me.

 

I checked on the FOIA. A government agency has 20 working days -- about a month -- to turn over a document. They can take another 10 working days if they need to transfer the request to another department, and/or another 20 working days if they have to get more information from the requester. A lot of people have speculated that JB and J'chelle knew this was coming, and I think that's very possible. They certainly knew enough in advance to be able to send someone to the sheriff's office to try to get the report destro

 

It appears that this was something of an open secret in NW Arkansas. I wonder if this was why Josh went to DC. I could see someone who liked him -- like Huckabee -- putting in a good word for him with the FRC so that he could get away from all the rumors and start fresh.

Just a couple of unrelated thoughts:

 

Mary was mentioned in the e-mail to Harpo as one of the ring-leaders of the dog-and-pony show. I have always seen her as very passive, and as not particularly into the whole Gothard thing. That was a big surprise to me.

 

I checked on the FOIA. A government agency has 20 working days -- about a month -- to turn over a document. They can take another 10 working days if they need to transfer the request to another department, and/or another 20 working days if they have to get more information from the requester. A lot of people have speculated that JB and J'chelle knew this was coming, and I think that's very possible. They certainly knew enough in advance to be able to send someone to the sheriff's office to try to get the report destroyed.

 

It appears that this was something of an open secret in NW Arkansas. I wonder if this was why Josh went to DC. I could see someone who liked him -- like Huckabee -- putting in a good word for him with the FRC so that he could get away from all the rumors and start fresh.

Can you please explain what you are saying about Mary. I don't understand. TIA

[SoSueMe]

This whole "statute of limitations" bugs the hell out of me. Whose bright idea was this? The state of Arkansas?

[HumblePi]

I asked this a few pages back and read several pages worth of comments and haven't seen an answer- people here are saying he did NOT receive counseling as he stated in his resignation.  He referenced going to the Vista program or something- is this not a real counseling program?  If not, what is it? And where people are saying he only did manual labor and didn't get counseling, what is this based upon?  I'm just curious, since people (not on this board) have said they did the right thing- "they sent him to counseling! what else could they do?!" (not mentioning, of course, the parenting and climate that fueled this to begin with).  

 

Is there a thread for the camera crew episode?  I have many questions and comments about that, but didn't see a thread for the ep.

Here's the website for Piney Ridge program at VISTA Hospital

http://www.pineyridge.net/disorders/sexual-abuse

[cmr2014]

This is probably crazy but is it possible that JD leaked the story? IIRC he has some sort of low position in law enforcement, but he could have had access to the records. Plus, he doesn't live at the TTH, but his living arrangements are mysterious. I always thought he was a doofus, but he didn't seem unkind. He also never seemed close to Josh either.

 

I think that this is a really interesting idea. Someone mentioned up-thread that there were instances where JD was supposed to do something, and he would refuse. Jana would go and talk to him, and he would do whatever it was, so they do have some kind of relationship and may have been as close as most twins when they were young. Perhaps Jana was being pressured into "courting" someone that she didn't like, or some other situation that was disturbing to JD. He might well have "leaked" the information.It is, after all, Josh's fault that he can't really have any kind of relationship with his twin. He also appears -- at least to me -- to be the one who is the most checked-out when it comes to the show. I don't think he'd care at all if the show was cancelled.

[Quilt Fairy]

Literata, your comments are why I hope CPS does a full investigation on this family. Tossing Josh aside for a moment, there are still fifteen children at home experiencing the same repressed, rigid lifestyle that Josh did, including a horde of pubescent boys. I'm not trying to throw baseless accusations out there, but there is no denying that the home environment played a role in what went down. At the very least it's unhealthy, at the worst it's criminal.

But a experiencing a repressed, rigid lifestyle in and of itself is not cause for a CPS investigation. I recall several times on TWOP where the mods had to say to the posters "Stop asking why CPS hasn't been called on this family. There aren't any grounds."

 

I've been reading the police report, which is kind a struggle due to all the redactions. But one thing stands out clearly to me: every kid like to play broomball, every kid's favorite subject in school (or should I write "school"?) is spelling and every kid's least favorite subject is math. Those kids were clearly coached on what to say.

 

Also from the police report, JB took Josh to the state trooper for a 'stern talking-to' only after he came back from "counseling". The trooper said there was no need to file a report because he'd already been to counseling and let the matter drop.

 

ETA: Here's a link to an approximate timeline of events:  http://defamer.gawker.com/josh-duggar-accused-of-molesting-several-sisters-as-a-t-1706096839

 

Does anyone know what Arkansas' mandated reporting rules were in 2002? Because it seems like a whole of (good Christian)  people let the ball drop.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[natyxg]

This whole "statute of limitations" bugs the hell out of me. Whose bright idea was this? The state of Arkansas?

 

As I understand it, there is a statute of limitations for all crimes, except murder. What surprises me is that in this particular instance it is just 3 years. It feels too little time to me. I assume the statute of limitations vary by state.

[RazzleberryPie]

Can you please explain what you are saying about Mary. I don't understand. TIA

Calling Mary a 'ring leader' in the dog and pony show means that Mary was/is very active in getting JimBob's family in the spotlight (on TV shows, speaking tours, JimBob's political career, etc.). 

[natyxg]

Can you please explain what you are saying about Mary. I don't understand. TIA

 

I think that person is confusing things. I looked and there is nothing in the email about Mary (that is the grandma, right?). However, there was a link posted a bunch of pages back that was to some posts in a forum, from 2007. The person claimed to know the Duggars and pretty much said a lot of what has been said now, and more. One of the things the person said was that Mary was one of the ones always on the phone trying to get goodies and show appearances and trying to make the duggars happen.

Edited May 23, 2015 by natyxg

[kandinski]

By now the kids will be under no illusion to keep their mouths shut and deny everything.

 

It would be stupid of them to defy Mechelle and Dim Blob

Edited May 23, 2015 by kandinski

[awaken]

HumblePi, thanks for the info on piney ridge treatment center. Are people saying it is not legit, or that josh never went there, as he claimed?

John David doesn't live at home? And they've not said where he lives?

[NEGirl]

Statue of limitations vary from state to state regarding various offenses. From the take I got on the police report, it said someone wrote a letter, which I took to mean of the girls, placed in it a book and it was forgotten about. The book was given to a freind to read who discovered the letter and called police. Someone in the know sent OP Productions an email which they(OP) verified, and then sent to the police. Hence the Duggars never appeared on the show.  My head is kind of spinning after reading all of this so I can't remenber which one came first. Everyones comments have been so thoughful and insightful. I only wish the Duggars had/have the insiight everyone does here. I am hopeing they all get the counseling they need, if necessary, by court order.

[Literata]

#8 on that worksheet is the WORST. "If you had to choose no physical abuse or growing spiritually?

Clearly they are meant to choose growing spiritually as the CORRECT answer.

That worksheet could easily been construed as condoning sexual abuse. Has anyone here sent it to Anderson Cooper yet? If not, I'd be glad to.

[Thumper]

What does JTTH stand for? Thanks.

[Gianthambeast]

Just as bad, the beginning part tells you, "The only part of you that was damaged was your body, whereas the truly important part of you is the soul." Like its axiomatic that sexual abuse does no spiritual damage. Then we move on to the victim blaming, then back to minimizing. "You are at fault; change whatever you did wrong. And if by some extremely unlikely chance you were not at fault, then you should thank God you were abused because it gives you more spiritual power." It's a horror.

And in the same breath they tell you that sex is some sacred gift from God only to be shared between a man and a wife and that preserving your virginity is some kind of mystical trust whose loss is like giving away a piece of your heart.  So which is it-- something that doesn't really matter or a sacred trust the violation of which has profound spiritual and psychological implications?  Double-talking, misogynistic, bastards-- what have you done to your daughters and wives?

 

Edited May 23, 2015 by Gianthambeast

[cmr2014]

I think that person is confusing things. I looked and there is nothing in the email about Mary (that is the grandma, right?). However, there was a link posted a bunch of pages back that was to some posts in a forum, from 2007. The person claimed to know the Duggars and pretty much said a lot of what has been said now, and more. One of the things the person said was that Mary was one of the ones always on the phone trying to get goodies and show appearances and trying to make the duggars happen.

 

Yes, thank you. That is exactly right. I've been scouring the transcript for the reference, and couldn't find it, but I knew that I read it somewhere.

[HumblePi]

Try telling any testosterone raging teenager at 13, 14, 15, 16 not to masturbate, not to have sexual thoughts of girls, not to think of sex in any way. That is not humanly possible and it's not fair to teach that to any child. It's human nature and if you tell that child that it's wrong and it's a sin against God, it damages their thinking for life.

 

I hear over and over about how they got Josh help through whatever means, the details of that are very foggy. What I want to know is did the four or five girls in the family that were sexually molested by their brother over a period of years get help?  Again, it's all about the predator and not about the prey. These girls need professional help, not a bunch of religious zealots praying it all away in a group in their 'home church'. That's bullshit. The girls have been molested and will have to deal with this all their lives, WHERE IS THEIR HELP

 

This as how the 2006 incidents came to light the second time around;

 

"The 2006 report explains that after a family friend became aware of the situation upon finding a letter that detailed the incidents that had been left in a book loaned to the friend by a member of the Duggar family, a call was made to the Child Abuse Hotline, which led to the Crimes Against Children and the Springdale Police Department investigating the case in 2006."

Edited May 23, 2015 by HumblePi

[3girlsforus]

This whole "statute of limitations" bugs the hell out of me. Whose bright idea was this? The state of Arkansas?

In Virginia there is not statute of limitations on sexual abuse of a child. I am not surprised other states have a limit since usually no statute is for murder but I am very surprised it's only 3 years.

[joanne3482]

HumblePi, thanks for the info on piney ridge treatment center. Are people saying it is not legit, or that josh never went there, as he claimed?

John David doesn't live at home? And they've not said where he lives?

Michelle confessed during the 06 investigation that the 2003 'counseling'  never occurred. The sent him to a family friend who owned a contracting company. In Josh's statement he says he received counseling but no details. So I don't know if there was a separate 'counseling' session or if he's perpetuating the lie that in 03 he received 'counseling.'

[ChiCricket]

I have the gender reveal on my dvr and I've never watched it. So now I have a different perspective. For those who want to see it, try On Demand if you have it.

Thanks for this suggestion..I entirely forgot that DISH offers a dish on demand type of thing , until you suggested this. I'm downloading the Digging in with the Duggars episode right now. I missed it when it first played and now I really want to watch it for the family's body language when talking to one another.

Edited to add: it acts like it's downloading, but never actually does...phooey!

Edited May 23, 2015 by ChiCricket

[3girlsforus]

I wonder if having it out in the open will allow the sisters to talk about it with each other to at least try to start some healing. You know it was not allowed to be discussed in any way in the Duggar home. I doubt they had anyone to talk to about it. I don't think it's an accident that Jill and Jessa were together the day it broke. I hope they can find support and healing with each other since we know they won't be getting it from their parents.

[Darknight]

I wonder how parents who called this tv show clean tv and allowed their children to watch it will address this to their children.

What does JTTH stand for? Thanks.

Journey to the heart

[bren70]

WOW.  Rewatching the tense Erica Hill interview episode now.  Wow, watch after she asks them about their modesty standards.  Michelle talks about her mowing the lawn in the bikini thing, and how she learned that she was at fault by tempting " the poor husband" across the street (which is a WTF statement because she was FOURTEEN and he was a grown man).  Anyway she then goes into saying "You can't control what someone else thinks, but we can control what we do.  So if we stir up desires in someone else, that can't be righteously fulfilled, then we're responsible for that."  Which is a big WTF anyway, but after she says that, Jim Bob looks over to Jana, Jinger, and Jessa on the couches, the camera follows his eyes and all 3 girls look down to the floor.  As if they feel ashamed.  Then as the next question begins, Jessa has a pissed off look on her face.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by bren70

[jcbrown]

This:

 

The victims deserve peace and healing. It's tragic that their parents chose celebrity over privacy knowing full well there were demons in the closet.

and this:

 

These girls have been told that God rewards those who forgive and their livelihood was dependent on the appearance of a united, faithful family. Forgiveness wasn't a choice- it was required. Jim Bob and Michelle failed their children (and I include Josh in that group of failed children). Because of the family infatuation with sex and the taboo of physical desire before marriage, he was a teenage boy without an outlet. I'm not defending his choices- but, his parents created the perfect victims and, due to their vanity and pride, allowed ill equipped people to "cure" Josh.

and this:

 

If the victims are the ones named and they did not share this with their spouse yet, it makes me really sad that they are having to not only relive this in the media but also having to explain it to their husbands on SOMEONE ELSE'S time table.

If I could like all these posts 100 times, I would. These girls were set up to be victims by Boob and MEchelle. After that, their parents sold them out and put them on TV instead of getting them real help. And now they have been deprived of the right to own their own stories. This is just ineffably sad and infuriating.

 

ETA: Not that I think this should not have come out. Josh, Boob, and MEchelle definitely deserve to suffer for what they have done. I am just sad for the collateral damage to the young women he molested. And his kids. And to a lesser extent, Anna.

Edited May 23, 2015 by jcbrown

[What In The]

For Josh to have molested anyone, something wasn't right in his head, heart, or wherever. Was HE ever abused? Was Michelle and Boob too busy with reproduction and politics to raise him? I don't know. All I know now is he got himself, his sisters, and now his wife into a butt ugly situation.

[3girlsforus]

I wonder how parents who called this tv show clean tv and allowed their children to watch it will address this to their children.

Journey to the heart

The people I know who are dealing with this are telling their kids the truth. Josh molested his sisters. He did horrible things and the show isn't on anymore. Those with kids too young to understand that answer are also too young to be hearing the news that it isn't on anymore.

[SometimesBites]

I wonder if the whole wearing clothes to bed started after the molestations.

I stopped watching a couple of years ago. Do they really wear their street clothes to bed??

[JoanArc]

In the interview, why did Josh say there'd probably be another courtship happening. Jana and Jinger looked like the wanted to rip him limb from limb after he said that. Major eye daggers. Anna looked like she was in a hostage situation. And yes, Jill was off, and heavily edited.

[Rhondinella]

Wonder if it will rate a mention on John Oliver?

 

I now CANNOT LIVE until I see Oliver's scathing takedown of this situation.  Please, please, please TV gods!!

[natyxg]

In the interview, why did Josh say there'd probably be another courtship happening. Jana and Jinger looked like the wanted to rip him limb from limb after he said that. Major eye daggers. Anna looked like she was in a hostage situation. And yes, Jill was off, and heavily edited.

 

Is there a link to this interview? I’m out of the loop. Thanks.

[JenCarroll]

This is what Free Jinger has on the counseling location Josh went to:

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26083

[JoanArc]

Is there a link to this interview? I’m out of the loop. Thanks.

Its the final episode of this current season, episode 21, Digging In With The Duggars hosted by Erica Hill. There is another thread about it, probably best to discus there. It was very tense and off. They knew it was all going down.

[NikSac]

Michelle was asked if  the person Josh was sent to for his manual labor punishment was a mentor. Michelle answered , no not really, kind of.

I don't have the exact wording, so I did not use quotes I can't recall if this was part of the police report.

 

It's on this page: http://imgur.com/a/zqPMi#29

"Det. Hignite then asked Mrs. Duggar about the training center they sent ***** to. She said it was not really a training center. Det. Hignite asked if the guy ***** talked to was a certified Counselor. She said no. She said it was a guy they know in Little Rock that is remodeling a building. Det. Hignite asked if the guy was more of a mentor. She said kind of."

 

(edited for typo fix)

Edited May 23, 2015 by NikSac

[natyxg]

Its the final episode of this current season, episode 21, Digging In With The Duggars hosted by Erica Hill. There is another thread about it, probably best to discus there. It was very tense and off. They knew it was all going down.

 

Ah. Thanks.

[NikSac]

I asked this a few pages back and read several pages worth of comments and haven't seen an answer- people here are saying he did NOT receive counseling as he stated in his resignation.  He referenced going to the Vista program or something- is this not a real counseling program?  If not, what is it? And where people are saying he only did manual labor and didn't get counseling, what is this based upon?  I'm just curious, since people (not on this board) have said they did the right thing- "they sent him to counseling! what else could they do?!" (not mentioning, of course, the parenting and climate that fueled this to begin with). 

 

I just quoted that part of the police report. Hopefully that answers your question if no one else has yet. (I'm still catching up too)

[satrunrose]

Finally caught up an I just... there are no words... this is so sick on a variety of levels that many of you here have described so eloquently. My two cents, for what it's worth...

 

When the news first broke, I felt really badly for Anna. Not to get into too many details, but being an unsuspecting family member of some one who is accused of sex-related crimes (yes crimes, not mistakes. This is not cheating on your grade 8 math test, folks) completely rocks your foundations. Being married to a creep like that must be 1,000x worse. And then I read Anna's statement and all I could think was, "Lord, I hope she's lying" because what kind of a psycho environment do you have to be living in to have a guy that you just met tell you that he molested his sisters and your reaction is anything other than running fast and far? And the Kellers? They're not off the hook either. How do loving, supportive parents allow (because given the amount of control the parents have over 'courting' you can't blame the girls for these messes) their daughters to marry a molester, a religious fanatic, and a guy who (presumed fabulousness aside) gets to be thanked, on film, for "correcting" his poor wife. 

 

I'm glad TLC has pulled the show and I hope it is gone for good. I hate what this cancellation will do to these girls who have already been left to the wolves by their own parents (My God, all the times Jana was sent to DC to baby sit for a guy who may have molested her). However, it also sickens me to think that they could write Josh out and go on with a shiny, happy show where we "purpose" to pack for a neat trip. The Duggars won't allow a hard hitting "Breaking Duggar" style show, and that would be the only kind I would be even moderately interested in. 

 

As for Josh himself, I'm really not sure where I stand about how much responsibility he should take and how much should be placed entirely at the feet of his useless parents. I can see both sides. What I can't accept, though, is being told (not by ptv-ers, thanks guys!) that Josh made a "mistake", but was brought back to the "right path" after he molested his sisters but two consenting adults in a loving committed relationship, or a person who wants a safe space to use the ruddy bathroom is doomed to Hell. Josh, Michelle and JimBob Duggar you are despicable human beings and you should take a long hard look in the mirror before you start mouthing off about "family values" ever again. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by satrunrose

[VioletNevermind]

With every hour that passes where we don't hear from the girls, I am growing more and more angry.  I have no hope whatsoever that they will receive counseling for this.  I'm talking about actual counseling, where they aren't questioned about what they may have done to invite the molestation.  Just think for a moment about the YEARS of deprogramming that would have to be done with these girls in order to get them to a healthy place mentally and fully convince them that none of it was their fault.  Then, consider Josh's kids.  Who's to say that he wouldn't do the same thing with Mackynzie in a few years?  He received no real help for what he did and neither did the poor girls.  As for the younger kids, they will most likely be just finding out about this.  They're accustomed to their family receiving positive attention and lavish trips, not public ridicule.  My heart breaks for them and what they're experiencing, all because of their weak, pervy brother and cowardly, lying parents.

 

Between this site, TWoP, and Free Jinger, I feel like I know far too much about the Duggars after 10 years of discussion.  Do any of you also feel like that?  I'm watching these incredibly general news reports and reading idiotic posts on social media and thinking, "You have no clue, folks."  I just feel so sick.

[bluebonnet]

In Virginia there is not statute of limitations on sexual abuse of a child. I am not surprised other states have a limit since usually no statute is for murder but I am very surprised it's only 3 years.

Someone else can confirm, but from what I understood reading all the reports is that the statute of limitations wasn't on the particular crime but on the number of years between when it was reported and when charges can be filed.  Since the crime had technically been reported to the trooper who happened to be a family friend and he never filed charges, the statute of limitations to charge for this particular crime had run out.  Only if there had been evidence that something happened after the initial report could charges have been filed.  

[Almost 3000]

What does JTTH stand for? Thanks.

JTTH Journey to the Heart. An ATI/Gothard program for girls.

 

I don't know why but I keep thinking of the big deal that was made at both Anna/Josh and her sister/TFDW weddings about Anna and Priscilla being in charge of the internet. That was so odd.

[bren70]

All I can think about is when Josh posted to either Derick or Ben, "I'll be watching you" with the little eye icon on Facebook.  And all the times he acted like he was their big brother protector, sizing up Derick and Ben during the courtships, and commenting to the cameras about it.  All of which would be completely normal big brother teasing, IF YOU HADN'T MOLESTED THEM YOURSELF.  OMG.    

 

And on the Erica Hill episode (Digging with the Duggars), Josh teases Ben about changing the nighttime diapers or something stupid, and Ben looks like he is ready to wring Josh's neck.  And then looked pissed for the remainder of the episode.  I even noticed it before all this news broke and wondered what Ben was pissed at Josh about.  His face is also red and his eyes look bloodshot.  I know he suffers from allergies, but I can't help but wonder if his eyes were red from crying after finding out that Josh had molested Jessa.  (Assuming that they knew this story was about to break, which I'm sure they did based on the weirdness of this episode/interview).    

Edited May 23, 2015 by bren70

[JenCarroll]

.

With every hour that passes where we don't hear from the girls, I am growing more and more angry.

I don't really expect to hear from the girls, do you? They don't owe anybody any explanations, and I'd think speaking about it publically would be the last thing they'd want to do right now, or possibly ever.

[Saylii]

With every hour that passes where we don't hear from the girls, I am growing more and more angry. I have no hope whatsoever that they will receive counseling for this. I'm talking about actual counseling, where they aren't questioned about what they may have done to invite the molestation. Just think for a moment about the YEARS of deprogramming that would have to be done with these girls in order to get them to a healthy place mentally and fully convince them that none of it was their fault. Then, consider Josh's kids. Who's to say that he wouldn't do the same thing with Mackynzie in a few years? He received no real help for what he did and neither did the poor girls. As for the younger kids, they will most likely be just finding out about this. They're accustomed to their family receiving positive attention and lavish trips, not public ridicule. My heart breaks for them and what they're experiencing, all because of their weak, pervy brother and cowardly, lying parents.

Between this site, TWoP, and Free Jinger, I feel like I know far too much about the Duggars after 10 years of discussion. Do any of you also feel like that? I'm watching these incredibly general news reports and reading idiotic posts on social media and thinking, "You have no clue, folks." I just feel so sick.

Not hearing from the girls is a good thing. That means Jim Bob and Michelle haven't convinced them to win back the public by apologizing for Josh, telling the world they have forgiven him, and letting us know that their strength in God is so much better now. The longer the girls stay silent to the media, the more they are winning that battle.