Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[SJC]

Just now, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

He had tears in his eyes when they cuffed him.

So sad. 

[merylinkid]

Appealing is automatic.   I would say it would be malpractice NOT to appeal.   Doesn't mean the outcome will be any different.   But you gotta try.   that's what a lot of those motions were, attempting to set up issues for appeal.   It just good lawyering.  

[hathorlive]

19 minutes ago, Zella said:

Not trying to be too graphic, but the sentencing enhancements for CSAM factor in a couple of things about the material he had. I think it's quite possible Josh does get a longer sentence. 

It would be the first time I've ever seen enhancers enforced.  But again, this judge seems to be over Joshie.  

[Zella]

I bet Justin is .  . . really regretting the thumbs-up pic now, no matter how Hilaria tried to spin it. 

[Tuxcat]

Guess it's thumbs down for Justin now

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I'll vote for that along with never seeing the sheer panel cocktail style dress again.  It was bad enough on its own, but the panel part hanging below her coat was worse.  

I totally agree - and I had commented WAAAAYYY up thread when she first wore it that I was trying to find that dress for my mom, but the one my mom actually wanted was a different illusion panel dress by the same maker, not the cocktail style one Anna wore. I needed to clear that up for my own conscience 😆

[iwantcookies]

3 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Josh Duggar looked over at his family when the guilty verdict was read, the Sun reporter noted.

He had tears in his eyes when they cuffed him.

Probably is thinking of all the food he loves that he will no longer have access to. No one will fetch him whatever he wants now. Prison food is not chick fil a!

[crazy8s]

i made this as a joke quite a while back as a spoof on the "praying for our Justin, We love you" banner that was seen hanging from the catwalk railing in the TTH. Now I think there most like already is one of these or one will be made soon

Edited December 9, 2021 by crazy8s

[lafcolleen]

16 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

They will spin it that it was satan. 

will Anna say, "its all lies. your father is innocent - except for the bit about sexually abusing girls.  that bit is totally true" ?

 

but dont worry, it was Satan that made it happen? Satan in the form of your aunts 

 

your totally normal, god-fearing aunts with their cute infants and (outwardly) happy marriages are tools of Satan bringing down god-fearing, bibically approved lifestyle living men.

 

??

 

yesh. that is totally a mindf***. 

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I bet Justin is .  . . really regretting the thumbs-up pic now, no matter how Hilaria tried to spin it. 

This thread has moved so fast - did she actually try to excuse that thumbs up somewhere?

[iwantcookies]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Guess it's thumbs down for Justin now

It’s okay his real mommy hilaria will comfort him! 

[Pingaponga]

I'm betting the youngest Duggars and his own kids have no idea what has been going on. They may know he was in a court case, but I'm guessing they have no idea what he was charged with. And that their parents won't tell them now.

[lascuba]

 

4 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

And the kicker is that the one thing that JD's defense time might have going for them is to throw themselves on the mercy of the court and that JD cannot be held fully responsible for his actions because of his upbringing. In order to save him from decades in prison, I can see JD's lawyers all but directly blame JimBob and Michelle for how JD was raised and that his past "indiscretions" were not handled properly, which caused him to escalate his offenses. Either way, the Dugger empire is pretty much toast with this.

Not gonna lie, I'd love to see this.

3 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Bobye Holt can fuck off.  She and her husband should have called the cops 1, 2 , or 3 times Josh confessed to them.

The AUDACITY of that bitch.

2 minutes ago, mimionthebeach said:

Was totally going to suggest that's what was happening. 

Same.

[CherryMalotte]

12 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I wonder if she's honestly just relieved maybe. I know she believes he's innocent but in her heart she's just got to know.

They could be slipping her a few of Mechelle's Mothers Little Helpers.

I'm so gleeful for this verdict...I was starting to worry a bit last night, but then figured maybe they'd come to a conclusion and just wanted to finish up this morning and take the rest of the day as a breather.  Some of those jurors may have smaller children they need to go home to last night.  I'll be very very interested to see what some of them have to say if they speak to the news reporters at all.

Enjoy the jumpsuit Josh!

 

 

[Minivanessa]

Just now, SusannahM said:

This thread has moved so fast - did she actually try to excuse that thumbs up somewhere?

She posted on SM the day after it happened that the poor guy was getting unfair criticism. She claimed he said something as they were leaving like "I'm not going to show negativity, I'm going to show a positive attitude." Or some such BS. Her explanation was as stupid as his thumbs up fratboy-at-a-party pose coming out the courthouse door.

[Annb67]

[hathorlive]

18 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I just had a fellow lawyer friend who is qualified to be a child attorney IM me that Josh was found guilty.   I was thinking "wait what, you were paying attention?   Wow, someone to talk to."   I sent her the link to this thread.   And expounded your expertise @hathorlive.  

I always aw shucks away from the term expert, but hell, after seeing Barbie Linux Babe on the stand, I need to start doing work on the side for hire.  Just not for pedophiles.  

I have to wonder why Josh didn't get Tami Loehrs herself.  She's the "big fish" in the any lie will do expert witness group.  I wonder if they didn't pay enough to get her and could only get binary barbie instead?  I mean, we all have our first trial.  I don't begrudge her that. I do begrudge her cherry picking data to support a paid for conclusion.

[iwantcookies]

Guess the M kids will be told daddy went to work to Columbia… he will be back by Mack’s wedding 

[hathorlive]

21 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, of course -- 

JUST NOW

Appeal planned

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

"We plan to appeal at the appropriate time."

 

That will cost JB a LOT of money.  Josh better get the kids collection cans to start saving up for it.

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

I have to wonder why Josh didn't get Tami Loehrs herself.  She's the "big fish" in the any lie will do expert witness group.  I wonder if they didn't pay enough to get her and could only get binary barbie instead?  I mean, we all have our first trial.  I don't begrudge her that. I do begrudge her cherry picking data to support a paid for conclusion.

Wondered that as well. They had to know the prosecutors would shred the "this is my first federal case" angle for the one they hired.

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

This thread has moved so fast - did she actually try to excuse that thumbs up somewhere?

I can't find it now, but she tried to explain he is just a very positive person who determined he would project no negativity, and it was being horribly misinterpreted. 

Edit: What @Jeeves said. :) 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Zella

[starfire]

7 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Probably is thinking of all the food he loves that he will no longer have access to. No one will fetch him whatever he wants now. Prison food is not chick fil a!

I wonder if JB will be funding Josh's jail account so he can buy ramen, chips and candy from the commissary.

[hathorlive]

25 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

I bet Mrs Reber is doing a happy dance right now as she fumigates Smuggar's empty room.

If I were her, I would burn it to the ground.  Ain't no bleach powerful enough to kill that slime.

Edited December 9, 2021 by hathorlive

[cmr2014]

38 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

4 months for sentencing??? I know this isn't unique to this case but geez - that is a long time.

I think that there is a process here where Josh is given a psychiatric examination to determine his likelihood or re-offending.  I think that the family is also interviewed to determine if they have been victimized. Those reports are provided to the judge as part of the sentencing recommendation.

I could be completely wrong about this -- this information could come from the Law & Order Law School -- but I think that's why it takes so long. I'm sure that there are better informed people on the board who can clarify.

[graefin]

42 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

So here's the sticking point.  Normally this gets you a 10 year sentence. I've never had a case get consecutive sentences, they always run concurrent.  However, the judge seems to dislike Josh and his attorneys.  He seems to understand the harm he's done.  Will he take time to write out a justification for going outside the standard sentence?  We know his average sentence for this is around 8 years, give or take.  Will the abuse of his sisters and danger he presents yield a consecutive sentence?  8 years followed by 8 years? Or will he throw every enhancer at him? Could we see a 20 year sentence for possession/receipt?  I doubt it, but this Judge is pretty fly.

In the press conference, the prosecuting atty, in response to a question from a reporter, says "ultimately this will be one count," and that the lesser charge (receipt?) is included in the greater. So does that mean the sentencing will be only for the one count?

[RowdyCam]

Hoping the M kids get some help and support. I can see Jim Bob and Michelle housing Anna and kids in the warehouse and making sure they have food and second-hand clothes, but nothing else, and refusing to send the J-slaves over to help. Anna was the one who had to have more kids with Josh, so I don't feel bad for her having to care for them alone, but wish the kids themselves had better family!

 

 

[Tikichick]

42 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

So here's the sticking point.  Normally this gets you a 10 year sentence. I've never had a case get consecutive sentences, they always run concurrent.  However, the judge seems to dislike Josh and his attorneys.  He seems to understand the harm he's done.  Will he take time to write out a justification for going outside the standard sentence?  We know his average sentence for this is around 8 years, give or take.  Will the abuse of his sisters and danger he presents yield a consecutive sentence?  8 years followed by 8 years? Or will he throw every enhancer at him? Could we see a 20 year sentence for possession/receipt?  I doubt it, but this Judge is pretty fly.

What are federal sentencing guidelines like if the Judge deviates much from the norm?  Here at the state level even deviations with extensive explanations from the Judge are frequently taken up on appellate review of sentencing -- and many times remanded back to the trial court for resentencing.

 I'd hate to see him given a very justified upward deviation in sentencing that is then remanded for a resentencing, giving JB and supporters any room to point to as "see, even the justice system can see Josh didn't deserve to be found guilty and held accountable".   I just want him to get as much of a sentence as the system will allow and fade into public obscurity -- while being miserable in incarceration. 

[HighHopes]

22 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Bobye Holt can fuck off.  She and her husband should have called the cops the first 1, 2 , or 3 times Josh confessed to them.

There was a Facebook comment from her on Reddit, apparently they were set to go to trial and testify but prosecution dropped it. 

Edit: Link to the post

Edited December 9, 2021 by HighHopes

[Gigi43]

When does he get sentenced? 

 

Can't wait to see how JB and M spin this. Are they offering Anna lump sums to not do an interview. He's the #3 twitter trend right now. Any press is not good press. 

 

 

[starfire]

How big is this warehouse apartment? Are they all stuffed in or are there numerous bedrooms?

Edited December 9, 2021 by starfire

[mom2two]

Did Anna really have a choice with the number of kids she had. Remember that she had to be joyfully available for a Sex deviant.   I think secretly she is relieved that she never has to have sex with him for a very very long time.    Remember that other than completely leaving, which she should have done when the Ashley Madison stuff came out, she is trapped and has to play by the rules.  She knows nothing different.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Appealing is automatic.   I would say it would be malpractice NOT to appeal.   Doesn't mean the outcome will be any different.   But you gotta try.   that's what a lot of those motions were, attempting to set up issues for appeal.   It just good lawyering.  

I think I just keep hoping that through all this Josh will finally figure out something about his life -- and have said to his family and to his lawyers, "Look, guys, this was actually right. I did this and the evidence proved it. And I'm a danger to others. I know that now and I know that I have to change my life. I need to get psychological and medical help with my frightening impulses. And pay my debt for this thing I just did that hurt some innocent people. It's time."  

I realize that sounds crazy.

But he's been a privileged and in some ways a quite lucky person throughout his life and now he's responsible for seven young children. So if those facts, plus this really sharp shock, don't make him at least temporarily recognize a bit of truth, then I tend to conclude that not only he but most of his misguided family too are never going to figure this out. They really are going to go on and on in denial and ignorance and arrogant insistence that nothing is ever ever their fault because they're Jesus's special people and now they're being persecuted. And that's going to make the raising and "education" of the Duggar-out-of-Gothard Generation 3 just as fucked up as the education of their parents.  

I see his recalcitrance as a bad omen for the whole rapidly expanding family. .....Hopefully some of those who didn't come to the trial with a thumbs-up attitude are rethinking all this, though. Despite the central figures in this mess apparently being hopelessly lost. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Churchhoney

[hathorlive]

10 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Wondered that as well. They had to know the prosecutors would shred the "this is my first federal case" angle for the one they hired.

And that sucks because it's so hard to get to testify in a federal trial. I mean, we spend our lives hoping a subpoena on the fax machine is for our coworker and not us.  But it's hard to get to testify at all with the feds.  I did fine at my first trial. I always let the AUSA's to critique me and help me get better.  I've had good suggestions and feedback that has made me better.  So, first trials aren't a deal breaker for me, but bad forensics is. 

[Tikichick]

44 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

So....will there be happy Christmas parties at the Duggar house this year?

For the sake of the innocent kids and the siblings who didn't do anything wrong, I hope they have a great time without Josh. 

[Kiss my mutt]

I don’t know if it’s customary to be remanded into custody until sentencing but boy, Jesus was I happy to hear he was taken straight to lock up. 
I was so anxious last night, I was praying for this outcome. 

Oh and Justin? This would be the appropriate time for a “thumbs up”, son. 

[hathorlive]

6 minutes ago, graefin said:

In the press conference, the prosecuting atty, in response to a question from a reporter, says "ultimately this will be one count," and that the lesser charge (receipt?) is included in the greater. So does that mean the sentencing will be only for the one count?

And so it starts.  Yes, I think that's EXACTLY what they are saying.  I hate the sentences in these cases.

[CandyCaneTree]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

I think I just keep hoping that through all this Josh will finally figure out something about his life -- and have said to his family and to his lawyers, "Look, guys, this was actually right. I did this and the evidence proved it. And I'm a danger to others. I know that now and I know that I have to change my life. I need to get psychological and medical help with my frightening impulses. And pay my debt for this thing I just did that hurt some innocent people. It's time."  

I realize that sounds crazy.

 

 

Thanks for giving me a laugh that I needed today. 

[Hana Chan]

2 minutes ago, mom2two said:

Did Anna really have a choice with the number of kids she had. Remember that she had to be joyfully available for a Sex deviant. 

Not in their sect. A woman must be sexually available to her husband whenever he wants her to be, no matter how she might feel. And men being unfaithful and having sexual indiscretions is blamed on the wife for not satisfying her husband.

It's pretty twisted and given how many cases of rape and child abuse come out of this group, it's obvious that it's not a flaw in their religious tenants - it's part of the design.

[CouchTater]

1 minute ago, HighHopes said:

There was a Facebook comment from her on Reddit, apparently they were set to go to trial and testify but prosecution dropped it. 

You're right, I did see that.  It just doesn't sit right with me that she's all "praise God for justice" and "what's done in the dark shall come to light" or whatever, when she is one of the adults who knew what was happening and didn't do all she could to protect the world from a predator.  If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I don't believe the Holts (and probably dozens of others like them, if not more) did all that they could in the Josh situation.

[auntieminem]

2 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

There was a Facebook comment from her on Reddit, apparently they were set to go to trial and testify but prosecution dropped it. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXRKEFvLzC0/

Not too keen on using Without a Crystal Ball as source but I did look on Bobye Holt's FB and that is what she posted. I wonder if that is true?  It all could have been dealt with years ago. 

[Pingaponga]

6 minutes ago, RowdyCam said:

I can see Jim Bob and Michelle housing Anna and kids in the warehouse and making sure they have food and second-hand clothes, but nothing else, and refusing to send the J-slaves over to help.

I can see them moving Anna and the kids back into the big house with them. They all lived there when Josh was sent away after everything came out a couple of years ago, and I think they'll do so again. On a purely practical note, they can make sure Anna stays in the fold if she's in the same house.

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

This thread has moved so fast - did she actually try to excuse that thumbs up somewhere?

Yeah, she said he was trying to show positivity or something. ... Of course there was no way to excuse his or her big smiles -- since the whole situation would be hideous if, in fact, Joshley were "just" being framed for these crimes or if were found not guilty or whatever the outcome. The situation is a big window into an ugly and depressing aspect of human life that we really have no idea how to handle. And both Justin and Hilary are clearly too dumb or oblivious or something to notice that fact. 

[cmr2014]

3 minutes ago, starfire said:

I wonder if JB will be funding Josh's jail account so he can buy ramen, chips and candy from the commissary.

I think that Anna will funnel every cent she gets from JB to Josh's account. He'll tell her something like "it's part of my ministry."

Honestly, I think Josh will enjoy prison -- and this isn't just snark.

He'll be able to read anything he wants. He can even take classes and get a college degree.

He'll be able to watch television and all of the basically benign content that he's been forbidden to see his entire life.

There won't be any more "blessings" (at least for a while), and he won't have to pretend to care about Anna or his kids.

I think that he's just a genuinely awful person -- a narcissist and a sadist -- who could thrive in that environment. He's also an entitled baby-man and a coward, so it could go the other way, too.

[Hana Chan]

3 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I don’t know if it’s customary to be remanded into custody until sentencing but boy, Jesus was I happy to hear he was taken straight to lock up. 
I was so anxious last night, I was praying for this outcome. 

Oh and Justin? This would be the appropriate time for a “thumbs up”, son. 

It's usually done when 1) the convicted is considered a flight risk (has the resources and reason to run away), 2) when the charges are severe and 3) there is a high probability of the convicted to offend again. I think that JD would tick off most if not all of these boxes. 

[iwantcookies]

Throbbing zit on Sagan’s ass

Rotten potato from hell

is what Josh is called on dlisted.com

Spot on nicknames 

 

[quarks]

21 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

This thread has moved so fast - did she actually try to excuse that thumbs up somewhere?

Yes, she did. She said Justin was just trying to be positive. Which is all very nice, and mostly served to remind us all that Justin is apparently too immature to know the difference between "looking positive" and "giving two thumbs up to tabloid cameras while leaving a trial about CSAM materials."

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, auntieminem said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXRKEFvLzC0/

Not too keen on using Without a Crystal Ball as source but I did look on Bobye Holt's FB and that is what she posted. I wonder if that is true?  It all could have been dealt with years ago. 

I don't buy it. If it had been set to go to trial at the time, then there's no reason for the police to question the family after the Oprah show contacted them.

[Gigi43]

5 minutes ago, mom2two said:

Did Anna really have a choice with the number of kids she had. Remember that she had to be joyfully available for a Sex deviant.   I think secretly she is relieved that she never has to have sex with him for a very very long time.    Remember that other than completely leaving, which she should have done when the Ashley Madison stuff came out, she is trapped and has to play by the rules.  She knows nothing different.

 

Anna had 2 siblings offering to help her leave Josh when the Ashley Madison stuff hit. She made the choice not to. She had access to the "outside" on a level the others in the cult do not. Some of her siblings don't play by the cult rules, Anna and Josh were in DC around plenty of people who believe in women having careers and saying no (and I don't believe they played by Cult rules while in DC.) She was pretty much a fangirl when she was first on TLC. She willingly stayed with him and turned down help at the expense of her children. I don't think she's relieved, she may now have to put the work into raising her kids and all that she refused to do years ago. 

[iwantcookies]

1 minute ago, Hana Chan said:

It's usually done when 1) the convicted is considered a flight risk (has the resources and reason to run away), 2) when the charges are severe and 3) there is a high probability of the convicted to offend again. I think that JD would tick off most if not all of these boxes. 

It’s Josh not JD. JD is a different Duggar.

[CountryGirl]

35 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

And now that he needs a new wig, who knows what his priorities are? 

Now that he knows everyone knows he wears a wig...