Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Katydid]

I have a bad feeling that now that Josh is unemployed, the humpers will set up a Go Fund Me to raise money for the poor persecuted Smugs and his growing brood. And if the little pizza parlor in Indiana got almost a million, I shudder to think what the Smuggars might pull in.

[HeyNow]

Josh's FRC resignation letter in full:

I deeply regret that recent media reports about my long ago past has brought negative attention to FRC Action and its work to preserve and advance the interests of family, faith, and freedom in the political arena.

FRC Action's mission to fortify the traditional foundations of civil society is more important now than ever before, and I'm heartbroken that any attention has been diverted from these noble causes to my wrong actions as a young teenager. I am so thankful for God's grace, forgiveness and redemptive heart that allowed me to transform into a man of faith and testimony.

In good faith I cannot allow Family Research Council to be impacted by mistakes I made as a teenager, so I am resigning as Executive Director of FRC Action. I will continue to pray for the advancements of the causes we believe in and I hope that in the days ahead you will pray for me and Anna as we seek God to discover the next chapter of our lives in His service.

Sincerely,
Joshua Duggar

 

 

*****

 

Jackass.

[TaxNerd]

While I'm glad it came to light, it's unfortunate the records were released that identifies the duggar girls as victims. I can't image the three living in the house are getting much comfort tonight. These rumors, because I doubt we will get many more facts, will follow the girls forever. And if the show is pulled, they likely will continue to blame themselves.

I wonder how long Josh knew this story was coming? The house purchase in AR makes more sense, and it definitely seems like the family hired a real PR person in the last few months. Lots of social media and People articles, even more than in years past. Makes you wonder if the family tried to get ahead of the story.

Edited May 22, 2015 by TaxNerd

[Cherrio]

So, JB takes Josh to his policeman friend who turns out to be a pedophile. They follow this Gothard creep. They go to a doctor who has had trouble with drugs and lost his ability to dispense medication.

 I have heard some of the mid-wives are very questionable.

WTF?

[humbleopinion]

Wonder how People Magazine will cover the story.

All those nauseating covers of the Duggars of late.

[3 is enough]

I just cannot believe how STUPID Jim Bob and Michelle are.  I cannot imagine the hell of finding out that your son molested his sisters.  I suppose they did what they thought was best under the circumstances, but did it never occur to them that their lifestyle was to blame?  But no, they just made the girls sleep in their clothes and double up in beds.  Yeah, that was a solution...

Edited May 22, 2015 by 3 is enough

[cmr2014]

I truly hope they are telling the truth that Josh and the girls received therapy. This is more than a mistake or a youthful indiscretion. I am actually shaking thinking about their treatment of the four oldest girls. At the very least Anna went into it with her eyes open. I just feel rage that the victims had to live in such close quarters with their abuser.  

Michelle and Jim Bob are disgusting individuals. 

 

The Gothard training materials for counseling of sexual abuse victims are on-line (and are disgusting). I'm sure that the girls "received counseling" but not in the sense that we would recognize.

[Fuzzysox]

Can you imagine the tension in that house tonight

[VioletNevermind]

I have a bad feeling that now that Josh is unemployed, the humpers will set up a Go Fund Me to raise money for the poor persecuted Smugs and his growing brood. And if the little pizza parlor in Indiana got almost a million, I shudder to think what the Smuggars might pull in.

Agreed. For every reasonable person online condemning his actions and the inaction of his parents, there are three leg-humpers supporting them blindly, quoting Bible verses left and right. Quite frankly, it's chilling and it disgusts me to the core. I cannot imagine a universe where TLC does not cancel this show. Maybe if they struck a deal where Josh would no longer be featured on the show, but even then . . . no. How could the Duggers possibly continue, pretending to be the perfect family that so many Bible-thumpers out there believe them to be? MEchelle said in her statement that they are an "imperfect family," but that certainly isn't the impression they've tried to put across all these years.

Edited May 22, 2015 by SuzyLee

[Cherrio]

Wonder how People Magazine will cover the story.

All those nauseating covers of the Duggars of late.

I think People are in bed with TLC.

[sadiegirl1999]

I cannot imagine a universe where TLC does not cancel this show.

 

Esp since they cancelled Honey Boo Boo for the exact same thing

[McManda]

I blame JimChelle as well but Josh is at fault too

 

I never said he wasn't. After all, he was 14/15. He should have known better.

 

But at the same time, I'm confused. Because unless I missed something, there was no indication that he did it as a power play or to intentionally hurt anyone. I'm not saying it was right or trying to excuse it, but there's a big difference between a teenager inappropriately expressing sexual curiosities as a result of their repressed upbringing and someone molesting girls as a way to assert power and dominance.

 

This situation is awful and I feel most for the girls that were involved and Josh's family (Anna and the Ms) for the shitstorm that it's going to bring them. But part of me can't help but think that Josh is a victim too - he's a victim of the way his parents raised him in a situation where he could think that what he did was remotely appropriate. That doesn't excuse what he did and there should be/should have been consequences, but I do think it makes it make more sense. I truly don't think he's this unstoppable, awful monster so much as he's a product of bad parenting and the cult that his parents ascribe to.

Edited May 22, 2015 by McManda

[humbleopinion]

TLC made no attempt to preempt tonite's FULL line up of Duggar shows, even the West coast feed.

Milking the cow one last time.....

[MrsMommy]

Just going to throw this out there, their instagrams are blowing up with people hating (rightfully so)

I can't see tlc keeping the show going now

[JennyMominFL]

Just going to throw this out there, their instagrams are blowing up with people hating (rightfully so)

I can't see tlc keeping the show going now

I hope the girls are not recipients of any of the bad stuff on instagram

Edited May 22, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[VioletNevermind]

I just have to state one more time that this entire season has felt like a curtain call. I truly believe that the Duggars and TLC knew this season would be the last. As much as they might want to retool the show somehow and keep it, they really can't. They helped to perpetuate the myth that the Duggars were this perfect family. As evidenced by the chilling Internet comments we've seen tonight, some people are, um, STUPID ENOUGH to believe it.

[dillpickles]

I hope the girls are not recipiants of any of the bad stuff on instagram

Just good 'ole Joshy boy. And, Anna.

[ChocolateAddict]

Boob and Mechelle are essentially responsible for creating an unsafe environment.  Josh's behaviour is inexcusable in every way but Boob and Michelle need to recognize their role in this whole f**ked up saga. 

-they tell their children that they can't touch the other sex until marriage

-they teach the girls that it is their role to prevent "defrauding" (and I'm assuming, rape)

-they regularly hump in front of the kids and basically announce every time they have sex (the menstrual chart anyone?)

-they keep all the kids together 24/7 with no contact with outside influences

-the kids have a grand total of zero sex education 

-by not allowing the kids to socialise with other people, they created a situation where there are no mandatory reporters such as coaches, teachers even a Sunday School leader.  There were no non-Gothard individuals who could have stuck up for the girls.  Their little "bubble" meant that those girls had no chance of being reported to Community Services (whatever the US equivalent is). 

Josh's behaviour was abhorrent in every way and those girls have suffered.  Their f**ked up parents have a lot to answer for, not only did they build a seriously unsafe emotional environment but they failed to protect their children.  Forcing a victim to LIVE with their abuser WHEN YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ABUSE? There is no planet on which that should occur.  

Like I said before, those girls deserved so much better.  

[xls]

Just going to throw this out there, their instagrams are blowing up with people hating (rightfully so)

I can't see tlc keeping the show going now

They can do anything they want. TLC just previewed scenes from next season.They choose to overlook all negative things about the Duggars and God knows they have tons of kool-aid drinking fans.

[bluebonnet]

I have a bad feeling that now that Josh is unemployed, the humpers will set up a Go Fund Me to raise money for the poor persecuted Smugs and his growing brood. And if the little pizza parlor in Indiana got almost a million, I shudder to think what the Smuggars might pull in.

Which really irritates me because Josh and Anna Duggar on their own are the top 5%, depending on what economic measurements one is using.  In some cases, they are even the 1%.  People like this almost always have at least some sort of passive income coming in.  I'm willing to bet the the FRC quietly offered an excellent severance package for resigning so quickly, and I wouldn't be surprised to discover that some campaign office or another figured out a way to kick back incentives to the family if they keep their mouth shut wrt politics for this coming election cycle.  They also have the sale of all those dvds and I guess residuals that will continue to flow in even after the show is canceled and of course the christian and fundie circles are likely going to keep paying him for speaking engagments.  These people are going to be perfectly fine financially for the foreseeable future.  

[ZoloftBlob]

Josh hit CNN,

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/21/us/josh-duggar-child-molestation-allegations/index.html?eref=edition

[CarolMK]

I think the show will go on a long hiatus. TLC might not announce cancellation at this time, but I think they'll have to pull all advertising and promotions regarding the Duggars for now. They might decide whether or not to proceed depending on what happens this summer. Since the show usually doesn't return until the end of September and the season finale was just aired, we won't see them for awhile.

 

Some of their tv series quietly went away, never to return. However, 19 Kids and Counting is one of their top shows, so the network is going to have to make a decision and announce it at some point.

[TomServo]

I don't think we can draw a conclusion that the Bates family or the Keller family knew about what happened based on JimBob speaking to "church elders."  ATI and IBLP are not churches in and of themselves, although there are churches that are heavily-influenced by those organizations.  The IFB churches that the Duggar and friends families tend to gravitate to do not have an official hierarchy that has authority above the local congregation.  It's more reasonable to assume that the church elders in question were a small handful of people local to whatever Arkansas church the Duggars belonged to at the time.

[3girlsforus]

This is definitely the end. After all the entire show has been about the "Duggar/Gothard" way to raise kids. See what happens when we raise them this way... see how different we are... Well the experiment has it's result.  You raise your kids like this and they are seriously messed up.

[Literata]

Is there any way, in that Boob and MEchelle maintained an unsafe environment for their daughters all those years, they might be facing investigation into the welfare of the children still in the home?

[humbleopinion]

Honey BooBoo was once the darling of TLC but look how quickly the show is forgotten once you pull the plug on the show....

Edited May 22, 2015 by humbleopinion

[3girlsforus]

You know who is doing the happy dance tonight????? Sister Wives.. that show was on the edge to be over. Really no more stories there. The sudden Honey Boo Boo cancellation helped it get another and now with the Duggars likely gone they could be around a lot longer. UGH - Maybe TLC should just close up shop.

[Wellfleet]

Honey BooBoo was once the darling of TLC but look how quickly the show is forgotten once you pull the plug on the show....

 

And nothing being re-run either. 19 Kids has been re-run to bits, IMO.

[mynextmistake]

I never said he wasn't. After all, he was 14/15. He should have known better.

 

But at the same time, I'm confused. Because unless I missed something, there was no indication that he did it as a power play or to intentionally hurt anyone. I'm not saying it was right or trying to excuse it, but there's a big difference between a teenager inappropriately expressing sexual curiosities as a result of their repressed upbringing and someone molesting girls as a way to assert power and dominance.

 

This situation is awful and I feel most for the girls that were involved and Josh's family (Anna and the Ms) for the shitstorm that it's going to bring them. But part of me can't help but think that Josh is a victim too - he's a victim of the way his parents raised him in a situation where he could think that what he did was remotely appropriate. That doesn't excuse what he did and there should be/should have been consequences, but I do think it makes it make more sense. I truly don't think he's this unstoppable, awful monster so much as he's a product of bad parenting and the cult that his parents ascribe to.

I would be more inclined to ascribe Josh's behavior to warped curiosity if it had been a one-time thing with someone who was close to him in age. That wouldn't have been okay by any stretch of the imagination, but it would have been explicable, especially given his background. But assuming the info in the police report is true, it was several girls, one of whom was young enough that she was sitting on his lap while he read her a story. I'm not sure that's as easy to explain away as just curiosity run amok. There's a pretty big chasm between experimenting sexually with an age peer (even a sibling) and touching the genitals of a young child while she sits in your lap for storytime.

I'm not saying Josh is a pedophile or is still an offender risk. I'm not qualified to make those determinations, nor are any of us based on the information that we have. I also think there's plenty of blame to go around here, and that Jim Bob and Michelle are certainly deserving of a fair amount of it for creating the messed-up world in which these kids live. But I'm not sure I'm ready to conclude that Josh is a "victim" in this scenario.

[Saylii]

RE: cancellations

 

TLC learned a lot after everything went down with Honey Boo Boo and her family.  They still may be in litigation with Mama June over what she felt was breach of contract (there was bad blood on both sides, honestly).  Considering Jim Bob Duggar, LLC probably had a more favorable contract and the fact that TLC should have known about the allegations, TLC has to be very careful not to find themselves in breach of contract.  If Josh & Anna do have a separate contract, it will probably help keep the main show afloat because they can cut them off easily.

 

What I suspect is that they will rework the schedule to start up when with new, fresh episodes in October/November when Jessa is due to give birth.  There may even be episodes dealing with the aftershocks that rumble throughout the summer focusing on the welfare of the girls and the remaining children.

 

As it currently stands, there's not really any way for Jim Bob and Michelle to face charges over this.  A good enough lawyer would argue that the case doesn't fall under failure to report child abuse laws.  The spanking with a rod leaves no marks, so they wouldn't face physical abuse charges.  Josh was never charged or indicted or found guilty in the court system, so it's not a crime to have him around the girls.

 

Now I am interested to see if CPS investigates and mandates that the minor children must go to some schooling outside of the house.  I know it's something that they can require if they feel the in-home homeschooling environment is dangerous.

[ZoloftBlob]

No. trust me if anyone is salivating with glee over this, It's Matt Roloff. Their show was essentially over 0 they might film Zach's wedding but that was it but now they can milk the bitter separation time for at least six episodes more!

[Bean421]

You know who is doing the happy dance tonight????? Sister Wives.. that show was on the edge to be over. Really no more stories there. The sudden Honey Boo Boo cancellation helped it get another and now with the Duggars likely gone they could be around a lot longer. UGH - Maybe TLC should just close up shop.

I thought about this earlier tody. Just one more reason to loathe Jim Booba and Michelle.

[Darknight]

You know what really sucks - not only is TLC still running the show tonight, I bet the ratings will be up. Even people who never watched the show may well tune in to see it now that this is hitting mainstream media.

tlc is truly disgusting. Making money off victims and an abuser

[JennyMominFL]

Josh would have had much of a chance to touch adult women. He had only the people who were readily available. He's many things,but he may not be a pedophile.

 

It may have been a matter of convenience, not a preference. 

[Patricia07]

If Child Services does investigate the Duggars, it might be the best thing for Josie.  

[cmr2014]

There are so many things wrong with this story -- beyond the obvious.

 

I think that the vast majority of the Duggars lack any real sense of empathy. I think that they understand it conceptually and try to display it occasionally, but the vibe that I get from most of them is that they really don't have the ability to walk in someone else's shoes. You can see this problem all through this story -- only a person who fails to recognize the humanity of others (including his own sisters!) would feel entitled to molest them. And, he apparently continued to do so, even after being warned. It shows up again in his statement where he talks about the effects that "continuing down this path" would have on his own life.

 

It shows up in their rabid anti-choice stance where they have no compassion for the situations a woman might encounter (a life situation, or a health problem for mother or fetus), that might lead a woman to choose to terminate a pregnancy, but make a huge public stink about their pro-life stance. They show no compassion for members of the LBGT community and, while I agree with the sentiment of the people who have made the analogy here that Josh will now understand what they feel, I have to disagree. LBGT people are regular people, and our fellow citizens, who are seeking to be treated the same as everyone else. Josh engaged in immoral, probably criminal behavior. There really is no analogy.

 

Finally, this all took place more than 10 years ago, when the show was first starting. If JB and J'chelle had any level of self-reflection, maybe they would have stopped and asked themselves "are we really such good parents? Maybe we should stop having kids and start paying closer attention to the children we already have." That idea, apparently, never crossed their minds.

[Darknight]

Josh hit CNN,

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/21/us/josh-duggar-child-molestation-allegations/index.html?eref=edition

And gma

[mynextmistake]

RE: cancellations

 

TLC learned a lot after everything went down with Honey Boo Boo and her family.  They still may be in litigation with Mama June over what she felt was breach of contract (there was bad blood on both sides, honestly).  Considering Jim Bob Duggar, LLC probably had a more favorable contract and the fact that TLC should have known about the allegations, TLC has to be very careful not to find themselves in breach of contract.  If Josh & Anna do have a separate contract, it will probably help keep the main show afloat because they can cut them off easily.

 

What I suspect is that they will rework the schedule to start up when with new, fresh episodes in October/November when Jessa is due to give birth.  There may even be episodes dealing with the aftershocks that rumble throughout the summer focusing on the welfare of the girls and the remaining children.

 

As it currently stands, there's not really any way for Jim Bob and Michelle to face charges over this.  A good enough lawyer would argue that the case doesn't fall under failure to report child abuse laws.  The spanking with a rod leaves no marks, so they wouldn't face physical abuse charges.  Josh was never charged or indicted or found guilty in the court system, so it's not a crime to have him around the girls.

 

Now I am interested to see if CPS investigates and mandates that the minor children must go to some schooling outside of the house.  I know it's something that they can require if they feel the in-home homeschooling environment is dangerous.

Not necessarily true. If Jim Bob and Michelle knew Josh had sexually molested his sisters and took no action, that would fit most statutory definitions of child neglect. An indictment, charge, or conviction isn't required. Do I think they'll be criminally charged? No. I do think there could be CPS repurcussions, though, especially with all the coverage this is getting.

[bluebonnet]

Josh would have had much of a chance to touch adult women. He had only the people who were readily available. He's many things,but he may not be a pedophile.

 

It may have been a matter of convenience, not a preference. 

Touching people without consent is not a matter of convenience, but a matter of criminality.  Doesn't matter the age.  

[Wellfleet]

I would be more inclined to ascribe Josh's behavior to warped curiosity if it had been a one-time thing with someone who was close to him in age. That wouldn't have been okay by any stretch of the imagination, but it would have been explicable, especially given his background. But assuming the info in the police report is true, it was several girls, one of whom was young enough that she was sitting on his lap while he read her a story. I'm not sure that's as easy to explain away as just curiosity run amok. There's a pretty big chasm between experimenting sexually with an age peer (even a sibling) and touching the genitals of a young child while she sits in your lap for storytime.

I'm not saying Josh is a pedophile or is still an offender risk. I'm not qualified to make those determinations, nor are any of us based on the information that we have. I also think there's plenty of blame to go around here, and that Jim Bob and Michelle are certainly deserving of a fair amount of it for creating the messed-up world in which these kids live. But I'm not sure I'm ready to conclude that Josh is a "victim" in this scenario.

 

Agree - this was my thought as well. This whole thing is awful, and it's obviously never OK. But with Gothard's beyond-idiotic teachings - rules that go against the laws of nature - it would be almost - emphasis almost - explicable if it had been one very brief occurrence - and not multiple girls/multiple incidents over a period of months. Unfortunately it was - and that clearly indicates a need for intervention and therapy.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Wellfleet

[humbleopinion]

We need to hear from the state trouper/convict sitting in prison for porn that is connected to the original report.

GMA/TMZ/People magazine needs to send an investigative reporter to talk to him.

[galax-arena]

So what we "Know" is that Josh admits to something he considers a mistake/inappropriate.  We don't know exactly what that bad thing is.  The police report contains 2 narratives that contain an accusation of something very bad (genital touching). [snip] But since I posted some of my deductions/speculations from my reading of the police report  I feel the need to at least point out that the police report contains allegations that have not been proven and were not directly admitted to.  (Josh's admission are very vague.)

Okay, but let's be real, if the police report had been wildly exaggerated, the Duggars would have nipped that in the bud and been more specific. In this sort of situation, what the people often don't say is as pertinent as what they do say.

 

The Duggars might be dumb, but they're not that dumb. (Or are they?) From a PR perspective, giving a vague admission of guilt might as well have been a full confession that everything in that police report was true.

 

(And yes, I realize that this wouldn't necessariliy hold up in court. But we're not in court.)

 

Yes his youth was pretty fucked up, but many people grow up in fucked up situations and don't become child molesters.

Yeah, agreed. Look, I've said earlier upthread that I'm angry at Jim Bob and Michelle for cultivating this type of environment - sibling abuse is rampant in a lot of IFB circles for this reason - but that doesn't mean that I have sympathy for Josh. Considering how many other teenage boys grow up like that and don't become abusers, it's not like his fate was preordained here and that there was nothing he could do about it. Josh made a choice.

Touching people without consent is not a matter of convenience, but a matter of criminality.

I think that JennyMominFL's point is that Josh's criminal abuse of his sisters was most likely driven more by opportunity than pedophilia the way some people have asserted. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by galax-arena

[JennyMominFL]

Touching people without consent is not a matter of convenience, but a matter of criminality.  Doesn't matter the age.  

Of course it is, but what I'm saying is that the girls may have been his unfortunate victims simply because they were there. He had access to them. It was "convenient" for him.  Had he had access to other females, even older ones, they may have been his victims. He may not have a preference for young girls, but that is who was most accessable 

Edited May 22, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[Literata]

The Nepal episodes are on now.

Boob: "I'm here because I don't want Jill to get hurt."

Ah, the irony.

[jschoolgirl]

I don't even want to think about someone as young as JoyAnna going through that

-------

People used to talk on TWoP about how miserable Joy looked all of the time. I imagine this was why.

[JayInChicago]

Now. I'm not a parent...but is it normal or usual to let a 14 year old boy have apparently long stretches of unsupervised access to a bunch of his younger sisters?  

[cmr2014]

I wonder if Josh will be the one to write the tell-all book.

- He has a family to support

- From what we have seen, it looks like he is happy away from AR, and I don't think he wants to go back and live under JB's "headship"

- It is not even remotely unusual to find out that people who sexually abuse others were sexually abused themselves. There may be more to this story (obviously wild speculation here).  If he were able to re-frame this narrative from one where he is an abuser, to one where he was abused, he might be able to ride this out.

[mynextmistake]

I don't even want to think about someone as young as JoyAnna going through that

-------

People used to talk on TWoP about how miserable Joy looked all of the time. I imagine this was why.

I don't want to think about any of these girls going through that. Given Jim Bob and Michelle's messed-up value system, I can't imagine any of them got any real counseling or therapy after it happened. Even if they weren't actively blamed by their parents, they were probably pressured to "forgive" Josh like "good Christian girls" are supposed to and suppress their feelings for the sake of family unity. It's a tough, tough lesson when your parents aren't willing to protect you from harm. It's even tougher when you have nobody else -- family, friends, or teachers -- to turn to. I really hope that somewhere tonight someone sits down with these girls and tells them that this wasn't their fault and offers them real help.

[bluebonnet]

Now. I'm not a parent...but is it normal or usual to let a 14 year old boy have apparently long stretches of unsupervised access to a bunch of his younger sisters?  

I spent long stretches of unsupervised time with all of my siblings, male and female.  Also with cousins and neighbors.  And I grew up in a deeply conservative family that bordered on fundie.  The only time it wouldn't be normal are for those like the Duggars who subscribe to the idea that women are literally the root of temptation and evil.

[JoanArc]

Josh molested EVERY female relative in that house that wasn't his mother, at the time (right? I looked at brithdates). If that doesn't get the show canceled, I will lose all faith in humanity.

 

It doesn't really matter WTF TLC wants to do, when sponsors drop left and right, which they will if the show stays, it's game over. There will definitely be sponsor boycotts if this travesty goes on.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JoanArc