Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Mollie]

21 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

"J. B. DUGGAR: Right. I was so thankful, though, that Josh came and told us. And our girls, even though this was a very bad situation, as we've talked to other families who have had, you know, other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse."

And the evil King Jim Boob, Monarch of Deflection, manages, as usual, to point out that everybody else does way way worse than he and Meeechelle do. Not just, "But everybody does it!" but "And they're all just terrible, compared to me!" 

That should have sent a team of FBI agents and half the American Psychological Association running to Northwest Arkansas, or Gothardland, or whatever benighted region Jizm Bob was in when he found this giant (fictional) nest of way-worse-than-his intra-family child molestation. 

The 'benighted region' is in the mind of Jim Bob's spin doctor, Chad Gallagher.  The same man who is still advising the Duggar family.  (The guy who just registered a domain name for Joy and Austin.)

http://addictinginfo.com/2015/06/09/this-explains-a-lot-duggars-hired-huckabees-pr-guy-to-spin-molestation-charges/?fb_comment_id=766221570163877_766310820154952#f1c7b16d69c76cc

Edited May 29, 2017 by Mollie

[lascuba]

My god, even when specifically asked about how he felt as a father to his daughters, THE VICTIMS, he immediately goes on about Josh. 

[ginger90]

Jim Bob also said the girls were supposed to tell their mom if anything were to happen again. Took himself and any other adult out of that, but why? Leave them with one adult to go to, nice.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, ginger90 said:

Jim Bob also said the girls were supposed to tell their mom if anything were to happen again. Took himself and any other adult out of that, but why? Leave them with one adult to go to, nice.

Well of course they had to tell Michelle; she was Josh' fiercest defender and would undoubtedly be able to counsel the girl as to how she had brazenly tempted Josh and caused her own molestation.  Jim Bob seems to have a little more feeling for his daughters than her, he might not have been able to do it with a straight face.  And I think its pretty obvious why they were never to tell anyone outside the family about it.

[louannems]

22 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, and this idea is in their blood. I seem to remember at least the Dillards talking and maybe the Seewalds too (?) about the blessing of firstborn son being already on the way to being the leader of the family's children as a tiny infant (s). .... This always needing a "leader" thing is a real problem with these cultists. Opens the door for all kinds of crap.

And it drives me crazy that after the mess that's been the Duggar life, nobody in the damn family -- not even the women who ought to know the horrors of being at the bottom of that ladder -- seems to have dropped that language/concepts.

So the girls had to be, at the very least, deeply deeply conflicted about the whole Josh situation, both as it was happening and after, seems to me. No matter how brainwashed you were into this leader thing, there still had to be facts on the ground that caused some level of cognitive dissonance, even though they were certainly also schooled to squelch any hint of that that they ever felt. 

And I hate the way JB and the Duggerlings always describe any new brother in law as a "good leader".  WHY do they need a leader?

[lascuba]

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to learn that your child is abusing your other children, how that must pull you in a thousand different directions, because you want to protect your victimized children but you also still love the perpetrator and want to do everything in your power to redeem him. I get it, and I'm a tiny bit sympathetic to the Jim Bob and Michelle that learned of this for the very first time. But damn it, the way to deal with that is not to bury your heads in the sand and make it all about the perp. That their first, second, and last instinct is to talk about Josh's heart and just refuse to admit to feeling horror at what happened to their daughters...that's what makes the whole family irredeemable. 

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to learn that your child is abusing your other children, how that must pull you in a thousand different directions, because you want to protect your victimized children but you also still love the perpetrator and want to do everything in your power to redeem him. I get it, and I'm a tiny bit sympathetic to the Jim Bob and Michelle that learned of this for the very first time. But damn it, the way to deal with that is not to bury your heads in the sand and make it all about the perp. That their first, second, and last instinct is to talk about Josh's heart and just refuse to admit to feeling horror at what happened to their daughters...that's what makes the whole family irredeemable. 

Well, it's one of the things. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

KELLY: We're getting into that. First I want to ask you about the counseling because the counseling Josh got in that treatment center was that the only counseling he ever received. What about your daughters?

J.B. DUGGAR: No. Josh actually went and had complete professional...

KELLY: The real licensed therapist counseling?

M. DUGGAR: All of our children received professional counseling, including Josh. After this, all of our children received professional counseling, including Josh, who paid for his own counseling himself.

J.B. DUGGAR: It was an accredited professional counselor.

KELLY: Did you feel when Josh had been through all of this, he had gone to the Christian-based treatment program, he had gone to counseling, he had gone to the police and he emerged back into the home. Did you feel that he was a threat, still, or did you feel that he could be trusted at that point?

J.B. DUGGAR: Not at all.

KELLY: Did you ever worry that the treatment didn't work, especially with so many young children in the house?

J.B. DUGGAR: No. No. Josh was a changed person.

M. DUGGAR: We still had those safeguards in place. I mean, there were a lot of things that changed in our understanding as parents with this first child, first son to come to this place in his life, we're like, there were things we learned even since then that I think, you know what, we don't let boys baby-sit. They don't play hide and seek together, the two don't go off and hide. There are just a lot of things we've put in place.  You're not alone in a room with someone else. Always be out visible, and, you know, little ones don't sit on big boys' laps or people that you don't know or even family members, unless it's your daddy. So we just -- there's boundaries that we've learned --

Forgot about this gem. Yes. Changed person. Trustworthy. Pre-Joshly.

[bigskygirl]

This makes me sick! Talk about total ignorance and denial.

[Oldernowiser]

To me, the root of all of this is misogyny.

They're just girls. Girls don't count.

Josh is the heir apparent, next to the throne, he has a penis..therefore, his crimes are to be minimized and forgiven. The girls are just girls...the only concern is whether this might count against their market value and it might take longer to get them married off and churning out babies for the Gothard army.

To think that Michelle is on board with this crap is appalling...and then I remember her head is frozen at age sixteen. 

She's a high school mean girl and all other women are competition, even her daughters.

[ginger90]

Quote

Did you feel that he was a threat, still, or did you feel that he could be trusted at that point?

 

J.B. DUGGAR: Not at all.

 

 

Which part of the question was he answering? Dope.

[Scarlett45]

32 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

To me, the root of all of this is misogyny.

They're just girls. Girls don't count.

Josh is the heir apparent, next to the throne, he has a penis..therefore, his crimes are to be minimized and forgiven. The girls are just girls...the only concern is whether this might count against their market value and it might take longer to get them married off and churning out babies for the Gothard army.

To think that Michelle is on board with this crap is appalling...and then I remember her head is frozen at age sixteen. 

She's a high school mean girl and all other women are competition, even her daughters.

So much this. Also there's a cultural attitude that sexual assault is something women just may have to endure because you know men cannot control themselves, and so long as it wasn't anything like "rape" which could lead to a pregnancy making them worthless on the marriage market, it isn't that big a deal. Their bodily autonomy means nothing, only their value to men- JB or a future husband. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Forgot about this gem. Yes. Changed person. Trustworthy. Pre-Joshly.

When you look carefully at that interview just about every Duggar line is a gem-- revealing one of the massive horrors that make up their entire personalities and approaches to life. They cover well, though, so it doesn't seem quite so horrifying until you've scratched beyond the surface. But when I pause after reading just about any Duggar comment there, I find myself saying -- Wait a minute! Oh my god! -- a few seconds later. 

They're corrupt to the core in so many ways and utter utter con artists in their ability to bullshit right past it. It's truly appalling. 

[Mollie]

47 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

They're corrupt to the core in so many ways and utter utter con artists in their ability to bullshit right past it. It's truly appalling. 

And now you know where Josh got his character traits.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  Or, to put it another way:

"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.  For each tree is known by its own fruit." (Attributed to Jesus: Luke 6:43, 44)

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Mollie said:

And now you know where Josh got his character traits.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  Or, to put it another way:

"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.  For each tree is known by its own fruit." (Attributed to Jesus: Luke 6:43, 44)

Yeah, that's one those bible verses I consider horse hockey. 

If that were true, there'd be no explanation whatsoever for several generations of my family. lol

[Mollie]

15 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, that's one those bible verses I consider horse hockey. 

If that were true, there'd be no explanation whatsoever for several generations of my family. lol

I think it is probably about many things.  Like:  a good man doesn't do bad things like sexually molest his sisters.

[Annb67]

4 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Forgot about this gem. Yes. Changed person. Trustworthy. Pre-Joshly.

Well he was changed. He moved up to adult hookers

[SMama]

Imagine the many more gems that will come out of the depositions.

[Fuzzysox]

9 hours ago, JoanArc said:

M. DUGGAR: We still had those safeguards in place. I mean, there were a lot of things that changed in our understanding as parents with this first child, first son to come to this place in his life, we're like, there were things we learned even since then that I think, you know what, we don't let boys baby-sit. They don't play hide and seek together, the two don't go off and hide. There are just a lot of things we've put in place.  You're not alone in a room with someone else. Always be out visible, and, you know, little ones don't sit on big boys' laps or people that you don't know or even family members, unless it's your daddy. So we just -- there's boundaries that we've learned --

I remember that Boob made this statement. I always cringe when Josie hugs random men or is close to a random man or is sitting on someone's lap. I don't know if she craves attention or she isn't being "watched" closely.  I can't believe that they let her do that if Boob was claiming that they have all these safeguards in place. 

[Sew Sumi]

Over the weekend, someone posted a pic of Josie on SMUGGAR'S lap in the scene on the show when they announced the move to DC. Yes, Anna was sitting right there, but in the story scenario, there were other kids in the room at that time as well; he didn't molest Joy in a vacuum. 

Boob and Mechelle were in that scene. Why didn't they tell the director to stop tape and get Josie off of Smuggar's lap before the "announcement" for the cameras? 

[LilJen]

34 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Over the weekend, someone posted a pic of Josie on SMUGGAR'S lap in the scene on the show when they announced the move to DC. Yes, Anna was sitting right there, but in the story scenario, there were other kids in the room at that time as well; he didn't molest Joy in a vacuum. 

Boob and Mechelle were in that scene. Why didn't they tell the director to stop tape and get Josie off of Smuggar's lap before the "announcement" for the cameras? 

Well, you see, Smuggar was now a married man and a father and thus having his desires righteously fulfilled. Thus, no danger of him molesting someone. Because normal adult sexual desire is TOTALLY equivalent to pedophilia. Duggar logic!

[ariel]

2 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Well, you see, Smuggar was now a married man and a father and thus having his desires righteously fulfilled. Thus, no danger of him molesting someone. 

Also no danger of the Smuggs looking for love on Ashley Madison.  ;)

[momofsquid]

It makes me crazy the way these idiots imply that "safeguards" are normal and healthy for any family. NO, dumbasses, in healthy families with sane parents, sisters do NOT have to be protected from their brothers, whether they've been Jesus-reformed or not. Jill, you should NOT have to protect future daughters from little Izzy. It's horrifying that she could even say that. Josh is an aberration. 

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, momofsquid said:

It makes me crazy the way these idiots imply that "safeguards" are normal and healthy for any family. NO, dumbasses, in healthy families with sane parents, sisters do NOT have to be protected from their brothers, whether they've been Jesus-reformed or not. Jill, you should NOT have to protect future daughters from little Izzy. It's horrifying that she could even say that. Josh is an aberration. 

A-fucking-men!! 

Granted I grew up with no brothers and a grandfather who was totally blind, I understand for older children in a co-ed household there may be more modesty considerations (you'd change clothes in front of your sisters but not your brother), but I would never think you would need to protect one child from being sexually assaulted by another. 

[ariel]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I understand for older children in a co-ed household there may be more modesty considerations (you'd change clothes in front of your sisters but not your brother), but I would never think you would need to protect one child from being sexually assaulted by another. 

I wonder if the Duggars were of another faith (not Christian) if there might be more outrage over the high level need to protect them from being sexually assaulted in their own home?

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, ariel said:

I wonder if the Duggars were of another faith (not Christian) if there might be more outrage over the high level need to protect them from being sexually assaulted in their own home?

Of course there would be. 

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

A-fucking-men!! 

Granted I grew up with no brothers and a grandfather who was totally blind, I understand for older children in a co-ed household there may be more modesty considerations (you'd change clothes in front of your sisters but not your brother), but I would never think you would need to protect one child from being sexually assaulted by another. 

And, if it happened, you would realize that this was truly a situation that was highly unusual, tremendously difficult and delicate, and required professional help, for both the molester and molestees.

But, of course, that would have required JB and M to have a lot of adult thoughts that they had no intention of thinking then or now. 

[Marigold]

I have a large family, both boys and girls.  Teens and littles.

I do not have to lock my girls in their room to protect them from their older brothers. To even think such a thing is so sick. 

[bigskygirl]

What makes me sick is the fact Jill and Jessa said they would go to JB and Josh for tips about kissing before their weddings since their daddy and brother were experts when it came to kissing because they were married. I am grossed out at the fact they would ask their older brother who molested them how to kiss, and their father who did nothing to help them seek the help they obviously need and control their lives before and after courting and getting married. I am sure they ask Michelle and Anna also for tips. The mother of the son who molested you, and the wife of the brother who molested and was cheating on her and looking at porn. The whole family are something else.

[Annb67]

The mere thought of not leaving your kids alone in the house or room together as a protection of molestation is just FUCKED UP! I can't imagine my daughter living a life like that..

[Lunera]

New photos of Ana 

[Mollie]

35 minutes ago, Lunera said:

New photos of Ana 

Anna needs her hair styled.

[Sew Sumi]

Are Ashley and Nathan Bates back together? Interesting pic. 

[Natalie68]

On 5/30/2017 at 3:42 PM, ariel said:

I wonder if the Duggars were of another faith (not Christian) if there might be more outrage over the high level need to protect them from being sexually assaulted in their own home?

No doubt

[louannems]

Jackson and James are behind Anna.  How does Jackson photo bomb so many pictures?

[queenanne]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

Jackson and James are behind Anna.  How does Jackson photo bomb so many pictures?

I dunno, but even though it's probably some kind of tame train or something, the picture fills me with visceral alarm because the composition is so generic, it looks like they're ready to embark upon some wild twisting roller-coaster, which makes me fear for the very small M-kid parked next to her.

[drafan]

3 hours ago, louannems said:

  How does Jackson photo bomb so many pictures?

Because he hasn't attended enough Journey to Alertness (or whatever the boy indoctrination camp is) . He's a tough one, but they'll break him.

[awaken]

 I'm really confused by those pictures. Is the first one at some sort of haunted house ride or amusement park? 

 Are the others at Joy's wedding? (Navy dress). And I've never seen any of those other people in the picture. 

[rue721]

What's really insane to me is that what we know about the molestations, blanket training, frantic eating in the bathroom, and other horrors are probably just the tip of the iceberg.

I really wonder about some of Josh's especially attention-seeking behavior, like molesting a five-year-old in a common area and when other people were around, or going crying to his parents again and again with confession after confession. There is in no way actions like that are about "sexual curiosity." Not that I do know what they are about. To me, that behavior is already so unhinged.

I tend to think that the reason that Josh acted out sexually instead of in some other way is because the family is so obsessed with sexual purity. If nothing else, that actually does make me wonder if he himself was abused, though -- like he felt "tainted," so he was going to go and taint everyone else, and just compulsively show off how impure he was. But who can really know. And in the end, maybe it doesn't even matter.

Everything to do with this family is so disturbing. On the one hand, I think it's actually kind of good that they're as functional as they are. On the other hand, I think of what it must be like to live in their heads -- and especially, I think of that pained, anxious look that's always on Izzy's face -- and I figure that they're all probably living in a nightmare that I can't really understand.

[Sew Sumi]

56 minutes ago, awaken said:

 I'm really confused by those pictures. Is the first one at some sort of haunted house ride or amusement park? 

 Are the others at Joy's wedding? (Navy dress). And I've never seen any of those other people in the picture. 

The pic on the ride is from Silver Dollar City on Wednesday. 

[Nysha]

13 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Everything to do with this family is so disturbing. On the one hand, I think it's actually kind of good that they're as functional as they are. On the other hand, I think of what it must be like to live in their heads -- and especially, I think of that pained, anxious look that's always on Izzy's face -- and I figure that they're all probably living in a nightmare that I can't really understand.

 

The Duggar's make everything weird. JB & Michelle try to show that Josh isn't a monster because he confessed to them, but they did nothing get him help or protect their other children. They don't understand that it's just not Josh we're judging, but them as parents. They take the time to make an individual birthday video, but the wording is so generic and identical that any of us could make the same video, even though we've never actually met any of their kids.

Many people homeschool to protect their minor children from the very real evil of the unsaved world, but the Duggars take it to such an unbelievable extreme, treating their adult children as if they were 10-13 years old. Josh may run a used car lot & John may have a towing business, but the rest of the adult male Duggars, plus Ben, have the pretend jobs a dad gives his teenage sons to keep them busy during the summer. The only pathway to adulthood is marriage, so one day you're 12 and aren't allowed to go to the store alone and the next you're married and expected to know how to pay bills, raise kids, and be all grown up. At least on camera, I'm betting off camera they're still expected to jump when JB says jump.

And then there is poor Israel. Jessa can be as snotty and stuck up as she wants and she'll still get a pass from me because Spurgeon is loved unconditionally and knows it. Derrick and Jill have already ascribed an evil intent to Israel's "I love you's" and the "pained, anxious look" that's always on his face makes me think that he is harshly disciplined for acting like a normal toddler. 

[JoanArc]

11 hours ago, louannems said:

Jackson and James are behind Anna.  How does Jackson photo bomb so many pictures?

He was raised, literally from birth, to seek out the nearest camera and perform for it.

[Totally]

Who was frantically eating in the bathroom?

[ginger90]

34 minutes ago, Totally said:

Who was frantically eating in the bathroom?

Jill, and the episode was titled, "Jill's Secret". 

She said had to grab some food and eat it in the bathroom to make sure she had some.

[drafan]

On 6/1/2017 at 0:13 PM, Mollie said:

On 6/1/2017 at 11:37 AM, Lunera said:

New photos of Ana 

Anna needs her hair styled.

Anna looks like Patty Hearst , aka Tania, happily holding a machine gun at the bank robbery with the SLA.

Pretty good proof that Anna has Stockholm Syndrome.

Edited June 2, 2017 by drafan

[Mollie]

12 minutes ago, drafan said:

Anna looks like Patty Hearst , aka Tania, when she holding a machine gun at the bank robbery with the SLA.

Pretty good proof that Anna has Stockholm Syndrome.

I see her knees.

Is this just another day at homeschool for those kids?  No wonder they are all intellectually stunted.  

[Marigold]

So how far along is Anna?

Jill needed a maternity dress and Anna fit into a regular dress.  Jill apparently carries very big also. 

6 months along?

Was is it a month ago they announced the pregnancy and it was a boy?  A 20 week sonogram? 

[Sew Sumi]

5 hours ago, Mollie said:

I see her knees.

Is this just another day at homeschool for those kids?  No wonder they are all intellectually stunted.  

This was the picture I was referring to yesterday. It's from Silver Dollar City on Wednesday. 

Wish Marcus a happy 4th birthday. When one cowboy hat won't do.  

Also wondering where this was taken. There aren't 10000 pictures on the mantle under their Hobby Lobby "art."

Edited June 2, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Happy birthday to our fun-loving Marcus! You are a treasure! We love you, sweet boy

Poor little guy--Smuggar's DNA has Kryptonite covering it, and it will identically reproduce no matter what.

Is it because I would be despondent in her situation, that it looks like Anna is not happy?

[Oldernowiser]

8 minutes ago, WhineandCheez said:

Is it because I would be despondent in her situation, that it looks like Anna is not happy?

If I had to be joyfully available to Smuggar (pre or post scandals) because otherwise I would be going to hell, I'd have jumped off a tall building a long time ago.

But first I would have Lorena Bobbitted him.

So yes, she looks miserable but she's big pregnant and probably hot as hell there, so...