Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kokapetl]

There's a chance Josh has a job and it just been kept quiet like the rest of his life these day. If someone will fly me business class to Tontitown, I'll gladly investigate. 

[cereality]

40 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Boob and Jchelle married Josh off young hoping a regular active sex life would cure Josh.  Josh married Anna so he could get laid..Not because he cared for her.

I agree that JB and Michelle that marriage was a "cure" to something that needed counseling and therapy - but an actual MD or PhD, not some churchgoer. BUT let's not act like lots of those marriages for the Duggar clan are bc the dude wants to get laid. Ben and Jessa? He was horny as hell and though marriage at 18 with no education/career was a good idea. Joy and Austin? I see zero spark - but conveniently he's old enough to marry, she's a sister of his many Duggar friends and she'll give him a family. This isn't like the Bates clan where most (all?) marriages have evolved bc there was a spark/friendship/care for the other.

[Mollie]

5 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

There's a chance Josh has a job and it just been kept quiet like the rest of his life these day. If someone will fly me business class to Tontitown, I'll gladly investigate. 

Josh is self-employed selling used cars, which is what he did prior to moving to D.C.  On his Facebook, he claims to have 50 cars now.  Some, however, have very high mileage like: a 2002 Volkswagen New Beetle with 170k miles for $3450 and a 2008 Scion xD with 126k miles for $3950.   The good-paying job is the one Anna has on reality TV with TLC.  

 

[ginger90]

Josh has a facebook?? That's surprising. 

[MamaMax]

25 minutes ago, cereality said:

I agree that JB and Michelle that marriage was a "cure" to something that needed counseling and therapy - but an actual MD or PhD, not some churchgoer. BUT let's not act like lots of those marriages for the Duggar clan are bc the dude wants to get laid. Ben and Jessa? He was horny as hell and though marriage at 18 with no education/career was a good idea. Joy and Austin? I see zero spark - but conveniently he's old enough to marry, she's a sister of his many Duggar friends and she'll give him a family. This isn't like the Bates clan where most (all?) marriages have evolved bc there was a spark/friendship/care for the other.

Well, I suspect they will also marry off any boy who doesn't seem interested enough in getting laid. Ahem.

Edited March 27, 2017 by MamaMax

[Beaner]

Going to school--be it elementary, high school, college--is so far out of their realm of what is "normal," you might as well be talking about becoming an astronaut and going to the moon. To these people, IT JUST ISN'T DONE. School is a horribly evil place for heathens, whores, and criminals. That's why it will never happen for Josh, Anna, and their children; they are stuck and, although they might not be happy, they are, no doubt, completely convinced they're "better" than the rest of the world.

[Mollie]

16 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Josh has a facebook?? That's surprising. 

It's a Facebook page for his used car business.  I'd post it here but it is not allowed because it does have his business address and phone number.

[Nire]

6 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

The only way out for Josh would be to leave the nest and get together with some publisher and write a "Tell All" book on his fked up family and their way of life.... Literally.  He'd make millions.

And this is why JB is supporting Josh, Anna and the Ms.

[rue721]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Seems to me the only thing that's doable is for Josh to go out and find himself an entry-level job of some kind and work his ass off to move on up over time, continuing to live off the compound as he slowly gets his act together. But given his nature and the whole milieu they're in and the dauntingly long time that would take, I can't imagine him really doing it, can you?

There's also the route of learning actual skills. He's never going to be a lawyer because of his ethics problems, but he could go through the paralegal course at the CC, and eventually get hired on his own merits in a related profession (I bring up paralegal in particular because he apparently wanted to be a lawyer way back when. But he could go through any paraprofessional or vocational program really).

His name is mud in the wider world, but he does still have pretty strong connections through his family, and if he brings actual skills to the table, I think he would have a shot at doing OK within his own insular world. Everyone within that world already knew about his problems, so the scandal probably didn't hurt him there too much, especially if he were looking to do some back room work (rather than being the public face of anything).

Anna is a lost cause IMO because she's tasked with taking care of the babies (and because she seems to have absolutely zero agency or a mind of her own). But the only person holding Josh back in terms of thriving WITHIN Gothard is Josh himself.

The thing is that I don't think that he truly wants to thrive -- because I don't think he's drunk the Kool Aid, or at least not entirely. Again and again, his behavior puts lie to all that Gothard promises, and he transgresses against the teachings that the cult seems to hold MOST dear. He was "acting out" sexually as a kid, and couldn't be controlled by his parents (they couldn't even keep the other children safe from him), despite control over children and especially their sexuality being Gothard promise/teaching #1. Then he showed no respect for his marriage, even though marriage is the absolute pinnacle to these people. He seemed nothing but depressed and burdened at the thought of (more) children, even though populating the earth with an army for God is supposedly his sacred duty. I don't think he necessarily feels free even within his own mind to feel anger/hate/doubt toward the cult, but he denies its teachings with practically surgical precision through his "rebellions." I think he's going to very conspicuously fail, and very conspicuously remain unforgiveable and unforgiven -- because that makes him a very conspicuous a thorn in JB's, and really the cult's, side. It's his own (likely unconscious) way of not completely submitting to the cult, I think, so it's going to continue and continue as long as he's expected to submit.

To me, Josh is like the Duggars' picture of Dorian Grey. "A corrupt [family] somehow keeps [its squeaky-clean image], but a special painting (...er, son) gradually reveals [its] inner ugliness to all."

4 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I think he could care less one or more of his children failing big time as long as it did not bring the whole family down. Of course Josh put the nail in the coffins, but Jill and Jessa still got a show out of it.

I think JB has crippled his children because he is so fixated on controlling them. And I think that he may have done the same to Michelle. She certainly seems crippled -- she's so infantile and vacant.

IMO he's not trying to look out for the family as a group, he's simply trying to get and keep total control over every person he can, in any way he can, forever.

Something is very, very wrong with a family in which literally everyone other than JB is reduced to infancy and dependency for life. That is not something that a person does to his own SO and children if he has any real love for them, or any real hopes for their futures (or even their future as a group). Completely narcissistic IMO.

3 hours ago, cereality said:

Honestly he'd be better off if he were raised the way the Bates are raising their kids now. PLENTY of religion (which we don't see on TV), but they are all encouraged to go to a local college for at least 1-2 semesters; then they can go longer if they want or get jobs or both. School and work allow them to get out of their fundy homes and make friends, meet peers and go through the normal process of noticing guys/girls they like. Then they meet a conservative Christian - who has similar values big picture, have a wholesome courtship and wedding night, and then go on to live fundie lite if they so chose w/o mom and dad in their face. Some of them [gasp] even have TVs, some choose to move away with their spouses and not see the family 5 times/week.

I think the Duggars were never going to be "normal" fundamentalists, because their dysfunction goes way beyond their religion. Being in the cult is a symptom of their dysfunction IMO, not the cause of it.

[Absolom]

This is what I see, too.  The Duggars would be dysfunctional cult or no cult.  They have the added personality defects of whatever it is in Jim Bob's psyche. 

[sometimesy]

Josh thinks outside the cult rules. He did a no no. He started getting information from the internet sometime before/during the campaign when he was caught looking at porn. He was well traveled through the show. He lived among educated people while in DC.  I don't think Josh is staying because he believes any of the cult bullshit. He probably doesn't know what to do and JB is holding the purse strings. Anna is the kook. Anna is a cult success story.

[ariel]

Where is Josh getting the money to constantly go out to eat at fast food places?

[queenanne]

16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Now there's a man who looks thrilled with his lot in life!

I cannot believe Anna is so stupid as to think a baby is going to fix their shitty marriage. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh walks out the door one day and never comes back. He's completely over it. 

In his scant defense, he's a person who's probably petrified.  He's not stupid enough not to know he's financially responsible for each new millstone, uh, blessing, Anna is determined to bring into the world.

[ThinkerBell]

I think Josh gets a few crumbs from the Counting On pie every time Anna or the kids make an appearance on the show. His emotionally destroyed wife and innocent children are paying his bills. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Another thing with josh is he's still too vain and prideful to try to be anything execept the Duggar Prince. He doesn't want to do anything that requires actual work or discipline. 

While Jill is a total Dumb Ass who believes Kollege Minus and they're SOTDRT are legit educational sources equal to real, accredited schools, Josh just wants to cut corners because he things he's above having to follow any rules or regulations. They might blame a learning disorder, but was he actually diagnosed by a real professional, or was this Michelle's excuse because she doesn't know how to teach and was overwhelmed before the sister moms were big enough to help out?

[cdp73]

Josh is probably hoping JB kicks it early so that he can be the head of the Duggar empire.  What do you want to bet that if JB died, the patriachy would die, too?  Josh will be in for a big surprise when Michelle assumes control.  (She's in control now but lets JB think he is.  If JB were gone, she'd show her true colors.)

[bigskygirl]

I do not think JB controls Michelle at all. She may seem space out at times, but she knows which side of the bread is buttered. She loves the fact she gets attention from JB because he was the nerd who got the hot cheerleader. *gag me with a spoon* In her own little world, she is considered hot stuff, and JB blindly goes along with her ego stroking.

Josh may not like his parents lifestyle and beliefs, but he did not mind going to D.C. and spreading their beliefs for the money and fame. Of course, he may also have done it to get the money for his porn and women to feed his own needs because Anna probably was not enough for him.

[zoomama]

10 hours ago, Absolom said:

This is what I see, too.  The Duggars would be dysfunctional cult or no cult.  

 

10 hours ago, rue721 said:

But the only person holding Josh back in terms of thriving WITHIN Gothard is Josh himself.

 

i stand 100% behind both these quotes!!!!   well said. 

[Marigold]

People are drawn into these controlling religions for a particular reason. 

[bigskygirl]

I remembered years ago in high school about my one teacher who taught Psychology. He was telling us to be careful about going out at night because cult groups were trying to recruit new members. He even said they were going to McDonalds on Friday night trying to find teenagers who look lost, scared, and alone because they were great pickings for their cult. Gothard saw the Duggars coming from a mile away. JB said he was abused because his daddy was not religious enough. Really... How many of us could say the same thing. Gothard probably could see JB and Michelle were naïve, and JB needed his ego stroke big time. He was able to convince the both of them his way was the best way by selling the fact JB could have a big family and be in total control (not saying he is in total control because Michelle seems to have some control herself.) The sad fact is JB is abusing her own children and even his own grandchildren because he lets his own religious beliefs take over their minds and souls. I would not be surprise if he wants to be another Gothard and wanted Josh to join along, but Josh ended up with some serious problems of his own and has damage the Duggar name.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

I do not think JB controls Michelle at all. She may seem space out at times, but she knows which side of the bread is buttered. She loves the fact she gets attention from JB because he was the nerd who got the hot cheerleader. *gag me with a spoon* In her own little world, she is considered hot stuff, and JB blindly goes along with her ego stroking.

 

Same. I really believe that those two are a "good" match and are on the same page on all the big stuff.

[BitterApple]

I definitely agree the JB/Michelle relationship is more egalitarian than they let on. I remember when they were putting the final touches on their book and Michelle wanted a specific picture of the J'Slaves featured on one of the pages. IIRC, JB wanted to use a different one, but Michelle kept insisting and ended up getting her way. I've also noticed that Michelle did all the heavy lifting when it came to their speaking engagements and they worked side by side in the various businesses they owned prior to getting sucked into Gothard. I think she's slick at keeping up an appearance of the dutiful, subservient wife, but she's much more vocal behind the scenes. 

3 hours ago, cdp73 said:

Josh is probably hoping JB kicks it early so that he can be the head of the Duggar empire.  

I pray JB has ironclad trusts set up, because I don't doubt for one second that Josh would screw his siblings out of their inheritance. None of the Duggar kids are business savvy or well educated on finances, so I can't even imagine how it's going to play out when it's time to divvy up the pie. 

[Normades]

20 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

They're both very ill prepared to cope with their situation. And for the ill prepared it takes more guts and energy and sense to overcome obstacles than it does for other people. I don't think there's any evidence that either Anna or Josh has had even the average amount of those qualities, let alone an above average amount.

I do see Josh as a sad figure.  I place the lion's share of the blame on his idiot parents.  I do not condone what he did to his sisters, but I can't imagine the torture of what it must be like as a young boy with feelings and natural urges being taught that everything you think and feel is sinful, all the while hearing and seeing your parents display their sexuality in your face.  How incredibly confusing!  Plus he was so isolated that he couldn't talk to another boy his age or try to kiss a girl his age.  What he did is wrong and disgusting, but his parents created that climate and then didn't get any help when he and his sisters so desperately needed it.  I seems like they shame him more for his affairs while married than what happened with his sisters, which really confuses me.  Again, I don't condone an affair, but men and women have them every day.  It is certainly not even on the same level.  

I think he is very unhappy and when he did reach out into the secular world (although in a bad way) it really blew up in his face -- publicly.  I don't know that he will ever try moving away from the "flock" again.  I fear that he could actually be heading toward very deep, dark depression that could end up in self harm.  I can't imagine how lonely and shameful  his existence must be.  I wish he would write the tell all, get himself some help, and divorce Anna.  It would be the best thing that could happen to him.  I believe things will take a serious turn for Josh in the near future - either a break from the cult or a complete breakdown.

Personally I hope it's the former because I believe all of these kids, Josh included, have suffered so much at the hands of JimBob and Michelle and I want the tell all to come up while they are aware and capable of being shamed for what they've done to those kids. 

[Missy Vixen]

On 3/26/2017 at 1:15 PM, BitterApple said:

He must feel like a caged animal at this point.

 

I wish I felt sorry for him. I don't. Imagine how awful it's going to be for his five kids when they find out what a POS their father is, let alone the fact their mother kept having kids with him anyway.

[JoanArc]

Quote

I wish I felt sorry for him. I don't. Imagine how awful it's going to be for his five kids when they find out what a POS their father is, let alone the fact their mother kept having kids with him anyway.

Agreed. Anna is the caged animal - the kind that has gone crazy from being locked in a cage too long.

[sATL]

8 hours ago, Marigold said:

People are drawn into these controlling religions for a particular reason. 

I really would like to know how/why they joined these things. And stayed with them. Namely- college-educated Gill & Kelly Bates.

I mean even the most faithful young adults who were raised in traditional faiths that their family practiced for generations, usually aren't looking to sign up for something else -esp. if it is more demanding or out of the norm than what they were raised in.

 Michelle-the cheerleader in the mid-1980s right out of high school signing up for marriage, no education, no job, and unlimited babies ? Doesn't make sense. So what happened to make her give up her future ? I'm sorry - no man (and/or the sex) is worth all that. Didn't her mom tell her that ?

Edited March 28, 2017 by sATL

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

Michelle-the cheerleader in the mid-1980s right out of high school signing up for marriage, no education, no job, and unlimited babies ? Doesn't make sense. So what happened to make her give up her future ? I'm sorry - no man (and/or the sex) is worth all that. Didn't her mom tell her that ?

 

I know it's hard to imagine now, but, in working class families girls weren't encouraged to go to college as much as boys were, even in the mid-1980s. I graduated in 1981 and my parents flat-out told me that they wouldn't help me go to college because I'd just get married and stay home raising kids, although they willingly supported both my brothers. Most of my contemporaries got married soon after high school and ended up going to college after a divorce or when their kids were older. 

[Caracoa1]

Anna really is a sad sack....So brainwashed...She is only parroting what she has heard her whole life....Marriage between one man and one woman....Babies ( born in Fundiedom) are blessings...Babies fix all problems....

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

I really would like to know how/why they joined these things. And stayed with them. Namely- college-educated Gill & Kelly Bates.

I mean even the most faithful young adults who were raised in traditional faiths that their family practiced for generations, usually aren't looking to sign up for something else -esp. if it is more demanding or out of the norm than what they were raised in.

 Michelle-the cheerleader in the mid-1980s right out of high school signing up for marriage, no education, no job, and unlimited babies ? Doesn't make sense. So what happened to make her give up her future ? I'm sorry - no man (and/or the sex) is worth all that. Didn't her mom tell her that ?

This is my opinion = Michelle has always been vain. She liked being the center of attention, the pretty cheerleader, the one the boys liked, etc. You know she was seeking male attention when she mowed the lawn in a bikini, etc. I doubt it defrauded her neighbor and caused his divorce, but Michelle truly believes she was desirable enough to shatter a marriage.

I don't think Michelle would've gone to college even if she hadn't married so young. Her goal was to brag about being someone's trophy wife. Her future plans were to be a housewife, not a married career woman.

It wasn't until after either Josh or the twins were born that they both went extremely conservative and gave up birth control, and not until Josh was five or six (when they withdrew him from Christian school and started homeschooling), that they went completely fundie. Then as they received more and more attention and praise from having all those kids and homeschooling, and Michelle's figure became irrecoverable, did they really go insane Gothard crazy with everything. Michelle was praised for her womanly submission and perpetual pregnancy, and she ate it up with a spoon.

[Churchhoney]

12 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

This is my opinion = Michelle has always been vain. She liked being the center of attention, the pretty cheerleader, the one the boys liked, etc. You know she was seeking male attention when she mowed the lawn in a bikini, etc. I doubt it defrauded her neighbor and caused his divorce, but Michelle truly believes she was desirable enough to shatter a marriage.

I don't think Michelle would've gone to college even if she hadn't married so young. Her goal was to brag about being someone's trophy wife. Her future plans were to be a housewife, not a married career woman.

It wasn't until after either Josh or the twins were born that they both went extremely conservative and gave up birth control, and not until Josh was five or six (when they withdrew him from Christian school and started homeschooling), that they went completely fundie. Then as they received more and more attention and praise from having all those kids and homeschooling, and Michelle's figure became irrecoverable, did they really go insane Gothard crazy with everything. Michelle was praised for her womanly submission and perpetual pregnancy, and she ate it up with a spoon.

And then Gothard, with the conscripted help of the umptyump poor idiots they birthed, made all of Jizm Boob and Meeeechelle's ego dreams come true. With the perpetual boosts to their two damn egos actually supplied by the souls being perpetually sucked out of their million pitiful kids.

At this point, I do feel that Meeeechelle's getting a bit of payback from the whole thing, with her body in ruins and her looks gone and her brains drug-addled and her daughters replacing her as "mothers of the year" and her favorite son tarnished while the continual demand to kiss Mr. Shitbreath never lets up. .......................Jizm Boob has yet to get his comeuppance, though, as far as I can see. I'm hoping he gets it before he keels over, since I do blame him even more than I blame Meeechelle (possibly wrongly, but his resemblance to others I know who deserve the most blame is just too great for me to feel otherwise). I sort of fear that both he and Gothard will somehow skate, despite their lifetimes of crime against humanity.

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

This is my opinion = Michelle has always been vain. She liked being the center of attention, the pretty cheerleader, the one the boys liked, etc. You know she was seeking male attention when she mowed the lawn in a bikini, etc. I doubt it defrauded her neighbor and caused his divorce, but Michelle truly believes she was desirable enough to shatter a marriage.

I don't think Michelle would've gone to college even if she hadn't married so young. Her goal was to brag about being someone's trophy wife. Her future plans were to be a housewife, not a married career woman.

It wasn't until after either Josh or the twins were born that they both went extremely conservative and gave up birth control, and not until Josh was five or six (when they withdrew him from Christian school and started homeschooling), that they went completely fundie. Then as they received more and more attention and praise from having all those kids and homeschooling, and Michelle's figure became irrecoverable, did they really go insane Gothard crazy with everything. Michelle was praised for her womanly submission and perpetual pregnancy, and she ate it up with a spoon.

Plus, keep in mind who we're talking about... Michelle is of average intelligence *at best* (trying to be kind here).  I'm not doing handsprings over JB's intelligence either, but at least he has run a business.

[sATL]

3 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I don't think Michelle would've gone to college even if she hadn't married so young. Her goal was to brag about being someone's trophy wife. Her future plans were to be a housewife, not a married career woman.

trophy wife implies one married "up" , right ? 

The RHO* comes to mind - married hubbies with an extensive resume and bank account(s) that wasn't there in the high school years.

[GeeGolly]

9 hours ago, sATL said:

I really would like to know how/why they joined these things. And stayed with them. Namely- college-educated Gill & Kelly Bates.

I mean even the most faithful young adults who were raised in traditional faiths that their family practiced for generations, usually aren't looking to sign up for something else -esp. if it is more demanding or out of the norm than what they were raised in.

 Michelle-the cheerleader in the mid-1980s right out of high school signing up for marriage, no education, no job, and unlimited babies ? Doesn't make sense. So what happened to make her give up her future ? I'm sorry - no man (and/or the sex) is worth all that. Didn't her mom tell her that ?

I think it might have been @Mollie (I apologize if I have the wrong poster) who suggested the Bates went uber-Fundy when they started homeschooling their kids. After seeing that short documentary it makes total sense. Apparently Gothard and all his wisdom (booklets) promise all kinds of wonder. With a lot of cults one is sucked in before they even know there is something to be sucked into.

Anna, who was raised in this culture, I'm guessing is relearning all these messages as she is homeschooling Mack and Mike. She is probably hanging on to anything that brings her comfort, familiarity and hope for the future at this point.

[Mollie]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think it might have been @Mollie (I apologize if I have the wrong poster) who suggested the Bates went uber-Fundy when they started homeschooling their kids. After seeing that short documentary it makes total sense. Apparently Gothard and all his wisdom (booklets) promise all kinds of wonder. With a lot of cults one is sucked in before they even know there is something to be sucked into.

I actually said that about the Duggars.  

 http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

@ RAZZLEBERRYPIE :  Josh never went to any school.  He was always homeschooled.  Read the info on the link above.

But that's not the whole story.  The real story is about money.  Jim Bob Duggar started attending the Financial Freedom Seminars sponsored by Bill Gothard's organization in 1990, after six years of marriage to Michelle and when Josh was only 2-years-old.  (See the Duggar book, A Love That Multiplies, page 153.)  That's when the Duggars became Gothardites.  It was more about money than religion.

 http://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/financial-freedom-seminar

Jim Bob went on to conduct those seminars himself and made money doing so.  He put a professional sound system in the Tontitown house and a commercial kitchen so he could conduct seminars there instead of renting a venue.  Then, TLC money started rolling in so he didn't have to earn money from seminars.

Those seminars advocated home schooling as a way to save money.  Many of the people who also attended those seminars were homeschooling their kids.  Jim Bob went to the private Christian school, Shiloh Christian School, for junior and senior high school; but he was too cheap to send his own kids there.

Yearly Tuition

Full Day Kindergarten $6,200

1st Grade $6,200

2nd - 5th Grade $6,500

6th - 8th Grade $7,125

9th - 12th Grade $7,525

[RazzleberryPie]

6 hours ago, sATL said:

trophy wife implies one married "up" , right ? 

The RHO* comes to mind - married hubbies with an extensive resume and bank account(s) that wasn't there in the high school years.

Trophy wife to me means a woman who is chosen for her looks and then doesn't work or do much after marriage except be arm candy. Michelle did financially marry up though. She came from a large, working class family, and JimBobs family was higher on the pay scale and social scale. His parents owned businesses, and I think it was a rollercoater with his dad either making a lot of money or failing and investments, but they were still a move 'up' socioeconomically for Michelle. 

13 minutes ago, Mollie said:

I actually said that about the Duggars.  

 http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

@ RAZZLEBERRYPIE :  Josh never went to any school.  He was always homeschooled.  Read the info on the link above.

But that's not the whole story.  The real story is about money.  Jim Bob Duggar started attending the Financial Freedom Seminars sponsored by Bill Gothard's organization in 1990, after six years of marriage to Michelle and when Josh was only 2-years-old.  (See the Duggar book, A Love That Multiplies, page 153.)  That's when the Duggars became Gothardites.  It was more about money than religion.

 http://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/financial-freedom-seminar

Jim Bob went on to conduct those seminars himself and made money doing so.  He put a professional sound system in the Tontitown house and a commercial kitchen so he could conduct seminars there instead of renting a venue.  Then, TLC money started rolling in so he didn't have to earn money from seminars.

Those seminars advocated home schooling as a way to save money.  Many of the people who also attended those seminars were homeschooling their kids.  Jim Bob went to the private Christian school, Shiloh Christian School, for junior and senior high school; but he was too cheap to send his own kids there.

Yearly Tuition

Full Day Kindergarten $6,200

1st Grade $6,200

2nd - 5th Grade $6,500

6th - 8th Grade $7,125

9th - 12th Grade $7,525

This says hey learned about homeschooling when Josh was 8 months but conveniently doesn't say when they actually decided to homeschool. Haven't there been pics of him in Christian school uniforms as a preK or Kinder kid? But yes, the expense for Jimbob and logistics for Michelle are way to much to send all those kids to any sort of real school, or do any real homeschooling. 

[sATL]

23 minutes ago, Mollie said:

I actually said that about the Duggars.  

 http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

@ RAZZLEBERRYPIE :  Josh never went to any school.  He was always homeschooled.  Read the info on the link above.

But that's not the whole story.  The real story is about money.  Jim Bob Duggar started attending the Financial Freedom Seminars sponsored by Bill Gothard's organization in 1990, after six years of marriage to Michelle and when Josh was only 2-years-old.  (See the Duggar book, A Love That Multiplies, page 153.)  That's when the Duggars became Gothardites.  It was more about money than religion.

 http://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/financial-freedom-seminar

Jim Bob went on to conduct those seminars himself and made money doing so.  He put a professional sound system in the Tontitown house and a commercial kitchen so he could conduct seminars there instead of renting a venue.  Then, TLC money started rolling in so he didn't have to earn money from seminars.

Those seminars advocated home schooling as a way to save money.  Many of the people who also attended those seminars were homeschooling their kids.  Jim Bob went to the private Christian school, Shiloh Christian School, for junior and senior high school; but he was too cheap to send his own kids there.

Yearly Tuition

Full Day Kindergarten $6,200

1st Grade $6,200

2nd - 5th Grade $6,500

6th - 8th Grade $7,125

9th - 12th Grade $7,525

Well if JB and his sister attended private school for 6 years each, Ma & Pa Dugger had more $$ (ie disposable income) than I thought.

[Mollie]

5 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

This says hey learned about homeschooling when Josh was 8 months but conveniently doesn't say when they actually decided to homeschool. Haven't there been pics of him in Christian school uniforms as a preK or Kinder kid? But yes, the expense for Jimbob and logistics for Michelle are way to much to send all those kids to any sort of real school, or do any real homeschooling. 

"Josh was four. I was so excited to get started by that point. I was chomping at the bit! I'd sit him down at the counter with me and I'd get out his phonics curriculum. We started by spending 15 minutes at a time. Sometimes we would go for 30 minutes, and then even 45 minutes. He was very able to sit and pay attention. And so I just really went overboard with him!"

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

[RazzleberryPie]

12 minutes ago, sATL said:

Well if JB and his sister attended private school for 6 years each, Ma & Pa Dugger had more $$ (ie disposable income) than I thought.

They were comfortable. Ran an insurance business and some other things over the years. I think several businesses went bust, but others thrived. They were also 'society' people from their hometown. Jimbob may have barely been out of high school when Michelle married him, but she saw a move up and an opportunity to be worshiped. 

[kokapetl]

10 minutes ago, Mollie said:

"Josh was four. I was so excited to get started by that point. I was chomping at the bit! I'd sit him down at the counter with me and I'd get out his phonics curriculum. We started by spending 15 minutes at a time. Sometimes we would go for 30 minutes, and then even 45 minutes. He was very able to sit and pay attention. And so I just really went overboard with him!"

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

Proper schooling would have given him better social skills. 

[Mollie]

24 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Proper schooling would have given him better social skills. 

A proper kindergarten would have given Josh several hours of instruction per day instead of several minutes.  The Duggar form of homeschooling is why all of their kids are intellectually and socially stunted.

[RazzleberryPie]

23 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Proper schooling would have given him better social skills. 

Maybe better skills, but I think he'd be an entitled, smug, predator no matter where/how he went to school. He has Michelle's vanity and JimBob's attitude of being thrilled when he feels like he's pulled one over on somebody in business, etc. (Jesus wept), that in a normal public school Josh would still be that cliche asshole kid who bullied others and you wouldn't want your daughter around, but he'd still end up being class president and prom king.

[Mollie]

4 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

. . . but he'd still end up being class president and prom king.

I don't think so.  As the eldest Duggar kid, he had authority over all of his siblings and they had to obey him.  He never had to compete in a peer group, because he had no peers and no peer group.  In a normal school, Josh would have been just an average kid from a blue-collar family.  He would not have been on the football team or any other sports team, and kids on a college-bound track wouldn't have had much to do with him. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Mollie said:

"Josh was four. I was so excited to get started by that point. I was chomping at the bit! I'd sit him down at the counter with me and I'd get out his phonics curriculum. We started by spending 15 minutes at a time. Sometimes we would go for 30 minutes, and then even 45 minutes. He was very able to sit and pay attention. And so I just really went overboard with him!"

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

Unfortunately, phonics was probably the last time he got such intensive "education."

[queenanne]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

Well if JB and his sister attended private school for 6 years each, Ma & Pa Dugger had more $$ (ie disposable income) than I thought.

Seems like this also possibly explains JB's "I was made fun of because my dad wasn't Christian enough" (this may not be the precise quote but I think it has captured the meaning), plus entire adult raison d'etre.  He was bullied in school; thus his kids won't have to sit through school.  So-called "Christian" kids can be just as mean and cliquey as non-Christians.

Edited March 28, 2017 by queenanne

[Churchhoney]

29 minutes ago, Mollie said:

I don't think so.  As the eldest Duggar kid, he had authority over all of his siblings and they had to obey him.  He never had to compete in a peer group, because he had no peers and no peer group.  In a normal school, Josh would have been just an average kid from a blue-collar family.  He would not have been on the football team or any other sports team, and kids on a college-bound track wouldn't have had much to do with him. 

This is certainly a possibility, of course, but I don't think it's necessarily the way it would have gone.

Josh always used to have a great ability to present himself with a real air of arrogance and entitlement and authority. And when I taught high school -- for years and years -- I was struck by what to me was the surprising revelation that, while kids do make many peer judgments based on other kids' accomplishments and socioeconomic status, most are actually just as snowable by an arrogant attitude as the rest of us. I'm pretty sure that, even in real school, he could have lorded it over a significant number of people, simply by virtue of the fact that he was determined to lord it over people. Many would have taken him at his own valuation if he'd pulled off the smooth entitled bully routine in school as well as he pulled it off in front of the tv cameras, and I suspect he would have been able to.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

Well if JB and his sister attended private school for 6 years each, Ma & Pa Dugger had more $$ (ie disposable income) than I thought.

Actually his sister didn't. So they only paid for JB. That school opened when the Duggar kids were around junior high age or something. But, as often happens, they didn't open with the upper grades. I forget the exact grade levels they started with, but when they opened, kids in JB's year were the oldest they took and then they annually expanded their offerings upward one class year at a time so that JB's class was the first to graduate there, so his sister kept going to public school.

And, according to Jimmy Lee's obit at least, it appears that, at least at times, he did pretty well with Duggar real estate. He seemed to have been trading in a much higher class of property than JB has, sometimes at least. So they must have had periods when they did have some money. He also doesn't sound a bit like his annoying son.

"J.L had a unique ability to make others laugh and smile. He delighted in spending time with his family traveling and doing things together. He was a fun Grandpa. Few people enjoyed life as much as he did.

"After graduating from Fayetteville High School in 1955, he attended the University of Arkansas, and served in the Army ROTC. He married Mary Duggar in 1960. In 1962, he became a third generation real estate agent in Duggar Realty that his grandfather J.T. Duggar established in 1933.

"He loved buying and selling property, cars, and making "big" trades. Among many of his real estate transactions, he sold sites for the Springdale Holiday Inn & Convention Center, McDonald's on U.S. 412, Heritage Funeral Home and the new Tamales Restaurant coming soon on 48th Street. He was an incredible salesman.

"He grew up attending Calvary Baptist Church in Fayetteville and was a member First Baptist Church in Springdale for many years.

"Grandpa Duggar lived out the verse in Proverbs 17:22 that says, "A joyful heart is like good medicine." He loved cracking jokes in tense situations, telling funny stories even about himself to make others forget their own problems. If he could come back just for five minutes, he would tell us how wonderful Heaven is, and how important it is for the rest of us to make sure we have a relationship with Jesus and to live every day for Him! He would tell us not to get so bogged down with the cares of this world or to worry about anything, but to love God, serve others and make a difference with whatever time and resources we have left. He will be greatly missed."

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=33774692

Edited March 28, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Aja]

2 hours ago, Mollie said:

"Josh was four. I was so excited to get started by that point. I was chomping at the bit! I'd sit him down at the counter with me and I'd get out his phonics curriculum. We started by spending 15 minutes at a time. Sometimes we would go for 30 minutes, and then even 45 minutes. He was very able to sit and pay attention. And so I just really went overboard with him!"

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggar-family-got-hooked-homeschooling/

Oooh! Congratulations, Michelle, on your SUPERIOR motherly enthusiasm! You raised a real intellectual powerhouse with a stellar character!

[Mya]

Any guesses or news on Anna's due date with the 5th M baby?

[Sew Sumi]

5 hours ago, sATL said:

Well if JB and his sister attended private school for 6 years each, Ma & Pa Dugger had more $$ (ie disposable income) than I thought.

Deanna went to Springdale High. Shiloh Christian didn't open until she was in high school. Boob is three years younger. I believe he attended 8 - 12th grades there. 

Ed Wheat steered the Duggars away from birth control and to Jim Sammons. He's also a Gothardite. Wheat was a big mentor for Boob in those early years. 

[kokapetl]

7 hours ago, Mollie said:

A proper kindergarten would have given Josh several hours of instruction per day instead of several minutes.  The Duggar form of homeschooling is why all of their kids are intellectually and socially stunted.

"Play nice" is basically the only thing they teach. It's an important lesson.