Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Sew Sumi]

I think that really speaks to the fact that he's unemployable outside of his family circle. If he can't even get a job behind the scenes of a local campaign, he's even more toxic than I previously thought.

eta: Now having seen the latest article, I bet that phone was up to his ear to keep gawkers away. I doubt he was talking to anyone. After all, anyone who would need to converse with him was already at that table.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[bigskygirl]

In a way, I feel bad for him because of his crappy upbringing and parents who do not give a rat behind about their own children, but he did, in a way, bring this on himself. He needs to man up and admit he might have a problem and get the help. His ego gets in his way and blaming it on the evil liberal media, two parents who have the IQ of a dirty dish way sitting in nasty, soapy water for a few days, and the devil is much more easier than stepping away from the spotlight and getting real counseling for himself and Anna. God has other people to help and worry about than the almighty Duggars. 

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

 

eta: Now having seen the latest article, I bet that phone was up to his ear to keep gawkers away. I doubt he was talking to anyone. After all, anyone who would need to converse with him was already at that table.

That's my thought as well, he has no one lef to talk to...unless it's his RU peps, or his 'therapist'. Well, or side pussy. There's always room at the table for side pussy.

[Sew Sumi]

Oh right, he could be talking to Cisco! Poor guy; his ego must be crushed since no one attends his webcasts anymore. 

[NewDigs]

Well, I vote for the side-pussy. Probably hornier than ever.

Which means we might see Cisco again!

[new jersey devil]

On 5/7/2016 at 5:34 PM, cmr2014 said:

I think he would have a hard time getting a job outside fundie circles anyway. He's nearly 30 and the only jobs he's held are running his daddy's car lot, and working for an extremist right-wing political organization. Even without the scandals, who would hire him?

Someone who believes in giving someone else another chance at life? Or does'nt the man deserve that?

Edited May 12, 2016 by new jersey devil

[ariel]

39 minutes ago, new jersey devil said:

Someone who believes in giving someone else another chance at life? Or does'nt the man deserve that?

Josh was given other chances & he still managed to screw up.

[Vermicious Knid]

That baby looks like she's doing the Church Lady's "Isn't that special?!" face.

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, new jersey devil said:

Someone who believes in giving someone else another chance at life? Or does'nt the man deserve that?

I think people get very skitchy, worried, concerned and down right angry when there is sexual molestation of children involved. 

And then Josh's next scandal is more sexual issues. 

Redemption does not mean there are no consequences. 

Josh may have been forgiven by his family and his God. But people are still going to be suspicious of him. 

[new jersey devil]

I'm trying to understand th

23 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I think people get very skitchy, worried, concerned and down right angry when there is sexual molestation of children involved. 

And then Josh's next scandal is more sexual issues. 

Redemption does not mean there are no consequences. 

Josh may have been forgiven by his family and his God. But people are still going to be suspicious of him. 

I'm trying to understand this...Are you saying Josh has'nt suffered consequences? Or just not enough to please the rabid haters of the man(and by extension, his wife and family)?

[Sew Sumi]

I don't think anyone here dislikes Anna "by extension." My dislike for her stems from things she's done all by herself, such as fail to get herself any help aside from praying. God can't save a marriage that is in desperate need of REAL counseling, not just sitting down with her in-laws and bearing "hearts." The Duggars steamrolled Anna when she was at her most vulnerable, but she had other options available to her. From what she's said, it's doubtful that they were ever even considered. She had power, but allowed others to take it away, all in the name of that stupid cult. I can never support that. 

As for the rest, @Marigold can respond. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 minutes ago, new jersey devil said:

I'm trying to understand th

I'm trying to understand this...Are you saying Josh has'nt suffered consequences? Or just not enough to please the rabid haters of the man(and by extension, his wife and family)?

I think to some extent, the backlash against Josh was so severe because he had worked for a political organization and was preachy and sanctimonious towards others when he had skeletons in his own closet.  Josh had molested 4 of his sisters (the youngest was 5 at the time) and at least 2 other girls  when he was 14.  It was made public knowledge when Josh was 27, and utterly humiliated, and forced to resign from his DC job in disgrace.  His wife Anna was pregnant with their 4th child when the news broke...further scandals surfaced that he was addicted to porn and had cheated on Anna with other women...definitely behavior unbecoming of one who judged others.

Most people revile Josh for being a hypocrite and blame the oppressive religious upbringing for his errant behavior. In fact, most people revile his parents for not getting him proper help as a youth, and we are critical of the therapy he received at his recent stint in rehab.  More so, most people realize that the warped thinking and teaching taught by Bill Gothard/ATI and their insidious ideas regarding sexual purity are what leaves us shaking our heads and wringing our hands. This patriarchal cult basically blames the shortcomings of the male on women, so it's never their fault.

We realize that his family are having a hard time forgiving what he did for destroying their wholesome brand and we realize his kids love and miss their dad and that poor Anna didn't deserve this either. He was christened Smuggar because he was smug and prideful in how he viewed himself above others.  Anna is as steeped in the upbringing as he was and has chosen not to divorce him.

He has a long road to redemption, and for the sake of his kids, I hope he's able to rebuild his life.  If he ran away from Duggarland and wrote a tell all book, we'd all be lining up around the block to buy it.  

If you want to understand how toxic this cult is that damaged Josh and rest of his siblings, look at "Life Isn't All Pickles and Hairspray"...No Longer Quivering...Free Jinger...

[Sew Sumi]

Recovering Grace is another excellent resource to understand just how insidious the Gothard cult is. 

[Mollie]

Josh Duggar has been photographed at Mother's Day lunch in Florida.  It seems he spent a great deal of time on his cell phone.  So, who is he talking to when the whole family was there at the table?

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-duggar-mother-s-day-101773

Edited May 12, 2016 by Mollie

[GeeGolly]

9 hours ago, new jersey devil said:

Someone who believes in giving someone else another chance at life? Or does'nt the man deserve that?

I'm sure Josh will get hired by someone. But from a business perspective hiring Josh could hurt the bottom line. There are a lot of folks who would stop patronizing any place he was employed at. And there are many folks that just wouldn't want to be seen as supporting Josh's behavior by giving him a job. 

And then to include what Josh has actually done and the liability that comes with. Although Josh has likely not touched a child in over ten years, no one is going to take a chance and employ him where he would have contact with children. And I don't think anyone would want to take a chance that Josh would sexually harass adult females either. Josh would be a risk to hire, so why hire someone like that when there are many others to choose from?

And families are a unit. It sucks when children and a stay at home mom are effected by the husbands income, but it happens all the time. Husbands lose their jobs for a lot of reasons.

Edited May 12, 2016 by GeeGolly

[Darknight]

On Friday, May 06, 2016 at 10:47 AM, ingenting said:

Unless Josh has a job lined, and a job that can't be filled locally, I can't imagine any European country will give any sort of work visa to someone with his education, let alone give him residency. 

Europe is too advanced for him. I don't know any European fundies.

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm sure Josh will get hired by someone. But from a business perspective hiring Josh could hurt the bottom line. There are a lot of folks who would stop patronizing any place he was employed at. And there are many folks that just wouldn't want to be seen as supporting Josh's behavior by giving him a job. 

And then to include what Josh has actually done and the liability that comes with. Although Josh has likely not touched a child in over ten years, no one is going to take a chance and employ him where he would have contact with children. And I don't think anyone would want to take a chance that Josh would sexually harass adult females either. Josh would be a risk to hire, so why hire someone like that when there are many others to choose from?

And families are a unit. It sucks when children and a stay at home mom are effected by the husbands income, but it happens all the time. Husbands lose their jobs for a lot of 

But would that really effect him? Josh wasn't charged and unless someone knew about the Duggars then it won't show up.

[Minivanessa]

I think Josh is right where he's going to remain: within the Duggar fold. Both as a member of the family and in terms of any work or business. He left that orbit briefly for his job at the Family Research Council, but that's long over and done.

The only people who matter - Josh's parents and his wife - have given him a(nother) "second chance." If he isn't already, I think that Josh will soon be participating in some business either owned directly by his father or by someone closely affiliated with Boob. The way Derick and Jill are in Danger America with SOS Ministries, which is owned/operated by a guy with longstanding ties to Jim Bob. IMO, based on what we saw in 19K&C, Josh hated the used car lot, so maybe he's found something else to do within the realm of Duggar Enterprises. Something more to his liking. We know that Boob's still in the used vehicle biz even if there's no used car lot anymore, and that he's also in the real estate business. 

IMO Josh Duggar is definitely not job hunting, and would never lower his precious speshul Christly self to labor in some anonymous job out in the secular world for a paycheck. 

[Lemur]

They'll create a fancy title and stick him in an airless, lightless closet they call an office and make sure he's never client-facing.  

No, wait, this is the Duggars.  He will lay low until the Redemption Tour and then he'll be front and center as a speaker, "write" a book, sell the movie rights ... 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Lemur

[Absolom]

In the process Josh will pass all blame to Satan and other people.

[Lemur]

20 minutes ago, Absolom said:

In the process Josh will pass all blame to Satan and other people.

Satan *DID* build a fortress in his heart, you know.  A fortress.  Not an outpost.  Clearly he needed to subcontract.

[Aja]

10 hours ago, new jersey devil said:

I'm trying to understand this...Are you saying Josh has'nt suffered consequences? Or just not enough to please the rabid haters of the man(and by extension, his wife and family)?

The consequences Josh suffered for molesting his sisters was to watch them get up in front of a congregation and tell everyone they forgave him. He had no real therapy, no real consequences, and nothing evidenced this more than building a career at least partially on denouncing entire groups of people who had literally done nothing to him, supporting legislation to strip them of their rights, accusing them of being perverts and a danger to children...all the while knowing, somewhere in his sick mind, that HE is the one who molested little girls, including HIS SISTERS. Having learned nothing, and having suffered no consequences, he went on to spend thousands of dollars of his family's money to bang hookers while his wife sat at home pregnant and raising his kids. Having learned nothing from ANYTHING, his family continued to alternately throw him under the bus/defend him to completely sickening degrees (they were asleep so it's no big deal that he touched them???????) depending on which way they felt the wind was blowing with their TV show. TLC continues to give a platform to all of this massive, disturbing dysfunction, which I find completely baffling, and STILL stubbornly maintaining that they are a good, Christian, wonderful family that we should all look up to and admire, which I find completely infuriating. Aside from their aggressive, judgmental, angry rhetoric they regularly unleash against anyone who doesn't believe the exact same crazy shit they do, you will NEVER be able to convince me that a father obsessed with his daughters' sexuality and a brother who molests his sisters and is allowed to carry on living in the family home, even having authority over his victims as the older brother, are products of a healthy, loving family. For me, it goes way beyond Josh Duggar and whether he's "redeemed" or not. This whole circus is rife with disturbing, twisted, sick connotations about money, fame, contempt for women, what passes for entertainment...and there is a bevy of young children who are going to pay the price for all of it, and it's heartbreaking. 

[BitterApple]

11 hours ago, new jersey devil said:

I'm trying to understand th

I'm trying to understand this...Are you saying Josh has'nt suffered consequences? Or just not enough to please the rabid haters of the man(and by extension, his wife and family)?

I think there's several reasons for the backlash. For one, Josh took a very public position with a hate group. He campaigned to deny equal rights to those who's lifestyles didn't match that of his family. You can argue that Josh has a right to his beliefs, however a guy who molested five girls and cheated with porn stars isn't exactly in a position to pass judgment.

I think people are willing to forgive mistakes, but nobody likes a hypocrite. 

[emma675]

Quote

I'm trying to understand this...Are you saying Josh has'nt suffered consequences? Or just not enough to please the rabid haters of the man(and by extension, his wife and family)?

This is just my opinion, but for me, it's very hard to forgive a person who spewed venom, hate and judgement about a group of people who only had the audacity to have a different lifestyle than his own, all while harboring several horrific secrets. And said secrets involved innocent children, who couldn't defend themselves against him.

So, no, he doesn't get a second chance from me. I feel for Anna and the children, but Smuggar can take a flying leap.

[Marigold]

15 hours ago, new jersey devil said:

I'm trying to understand th

I'm trying to understand this...Are you saying Josh has'nt suffered consequences? Or just not enough to please the rabid haters of the man(and by extension, his wife and family)?

I don't think josh really had any consequences. Sexual molestation of a child/children is serious. It is also illegal.  

Not to mention, he paid a prostitute/porn star for sex. Isn't that illegal? 

What consequences do you think he has had? He has had no legal consequnces for criminal activity.

I have no problem with Anna or the children. I might not agree with everything that Anna has said but she has broken no laws nor physically harmed anyone.Her children seem like nice kids.  I wish Anna and the kids well. 

Josh put his hands on chrildren and molested them.  THAT'S my problem with Josh.

The Forum rules pinned at the top of this page request that we don't speculate if Josh might molest again. I will just mention that people who molest children tend to be repeat offenders. I have no idea if that pertains to Josh.  I sincerely hope he is better.  But you can understand why Josh is not liked.  

[frenchtoast]

Sadly, the ability to pin posts does not exist, so it's not there anymore. There is a workaround that's being discussed. (I'm glad it's remembered though!)

We would like to not accuse/speculate that a real person is committing a crime based on drips of information on the internet. We're not there, we don't have access to that information and that's a real family. Similarly, we keep away from anything that could point to their actual physical location. Speculating they're at hotel is fine. Providing an address and pictures of their house is not. 

As always, remember you can disagree and explain your position without resorting to nasty personal attacks against posters. Which is not happening, the posting has been absolutely wonderful. Just wanted to point out to any newcomers. 

[bigskygirl]

Anna may not have physical abused her children, but she may harming her children by not getting the help she needs to deal with Josh's problems/actions. Children can pick up on problems their parents have, and they may be affected by it. I am not saying Anna is a monster and is a bad mother, but in the long run, getting help for herself will help her children grow into emotionally healthy adults.

Josh, on the other hand, can a flying leap at a rolling donut. I have no sympathy for a person who calls certain groups of people sex molesters because *God forbid* they do not follow his beliefs when he is hiding a few nasty dirty secrets himself and was doing the same thing he was calling said people out for.

[new jersey devil]

15 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I think to some extent, the backlash against Josh was so severe because he had worked for a political organization and was preachy and sanctimonious towards others when he had skeletons in his own closet.  Josh had molested 4 of his sisters (the youngest was 5 at the time) and at least 2 other girls  when he was 14.  It was made public knowledge when Josh was 27, and utterly humiliated, and forced to resign from his DC job in disgrace.  His wife Anna was pregnant with their 4th child when the news broke...further scandals surfaced that he was addicted to porn and had cheated on Anna with other women...definitely behavior unbecoming of one who judged others.

Most people revile Josh for being a hypocrite and blame the oppressive religious upbringing for his errant behavior. In fact, most people revile his parents for not getting him proper help as a youth, and we are critical of the therapy he received at his recent stint in rehab.  More so, most people realize that the warped thinking and teaching taught by Bill Gothard/ATI and their insidious ideas regarding sexual purity are what leaves us shaking our heads and wringing our hands. This patriarchal cult basically blames the shortcomings of the male on women, so it's never their fault.

We realize that his family are having a hard time forgiving what he did for destroying their wholesome brand and we realize his kids love and miss their dad and that poor Anna didn't deserve this either. He was christened Smuggar because he was smug and prideful in how he viewed himself above others.  Anna is as steeped in the upbringing as he was and has chosen not to divorce him.

He has a long road to redemption, and for the sake of his kids, I hope he's able to rebuild his life.  If he ran away from Duggarland and wrote a tell all book, we'd all be lining up around the block to buy it.  

If you want to understand how toxic this cult is that damaged Josh and rest of his siblings, look at "Life Isn't All Pickles and Hairspray"...No Longer Quivering...Free Jinger...

I'll pass on the book recommandation, as I already know as much as I'm likely to be interested in, about the man. There was no need to go over all this as I've lurked for months and I've heard it quite alot as it is rehashed to a degree I find comical and sad at the same time.

I'd suggest some people should get a hobby, but Josh would appear to be the chosen hobby of many, these days.

And honest question, but the word "redemption" is thrown around these parts quite a bit, but don't most here WANT the man to continue to fail, in the worst way possible?

Seems like it, to me...

[new jersey devil]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I think there's several reasons for the backlash. For one, Josh took a very public position with a hate group. He campaigned to deny equal rights to those who's lifestyles didn't match that of his family. You can argue that Josh has a right to his beliefs, however a guy who molested five girls and cheated with porn stars isn't exactly in a position to pass judgment.

I think people are willing to forgive mistakes, but nobody likes a hypocrite. 

Would that be the "porn star" who was proven to be lying? I keep forgetting...

And I spent 18 months in Afghanistan protecting all groups(hate or otherwise) right to lobby for their religious beliefs. Believe me, there are other religions whose beliefs are alot worse than the ones Joshy was pushing.

I invite all to look into them.

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, Darknight said:

Europe is too advanced for him. I don't know any European fundies.

Your post also asked if Josh's past would effect him because he wasn't charged with anything. Employers often check potential candidates' online profile or digital footprint. Typing Josh Duggar into Google would bring up his past. I doubt he would even get a phone interview from anyone who Googled him.

[Aja]

24 minutes ago, new jersey devil said:

 

And honest question, but the word "redemption" is thrown around these parts quite a bit, but don't most here WANT the man to continue to fail, in the worst way possible?

Seems like it, to me..

 

Personally, I do not want Josh to fail. I want him to get real help and re-devote himself to his wife and his children, since she was saintly/insane enough to stay with him. But from the looks of things, I doubt that will happen. He won't be allowed. He's a tool for the cult now, and the only hope he has is to extricate himself from the cult's grip and learn about who he is as a man and not a Duggar appendage. Unlikely. And sad.

Thank you for your service. My father served as an officer in the USAF for 35 years and I grew up on military bases. Defense of freedom is rhetoric I'm familiar with and also deeply passionate about, which my father instilled in me from the day I was born. Freedom to believe and live as you want without causing harm to others is one of the most sacred freedoms humans have, and so it makes me very angry when I see people like the Duggars trying to take away the rights of others in the name of religion. The FRC business, Michelle's robocall--those are the threats to that freedom, as far as I'm concerned. I'm a gay woman, but I would never lobby the Arkansas state government to change laws that would take rights away from the Duggars because they aren't gay like I am, and heterosexual sex does not seem natural to me personally. That's the opposite of that beautiful freedom. I hope I'm making sense. If Josh, or anyone in the IFB cult, wants to spend their days on an internet forum ripping Aja a new asshole for being a disgusting lesbian, hey--go for it. But trying to change laws or block laws so that I cannot get married, or business can refuse to serve me, doctors can refuse to treat me, police can refuse to help me if I'm in danger because of "religious differences"---unacceptable. And that's the passion of the Duggars' existence.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Aja

[bigskygirl]

Josh can get the help he needs. He should not blame his lack of getting the proper help on his parents or Anna. He has a brain and a conscious. It is about time he starts using both.

[Darknight]

35 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Josh can get the help he needs. He should not blame his lack of getting the proper help on his parents or Anna. He has a brain and a conscious. It is about time he starts using both.

I agree he's a grown ass man

47 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Your post also asked if Josh's past would effect him because he wasn't charged with anything. Employers often check potential candidates' online profile or digital footprint. Typing Josh Duggar into Google would bring up his past. I doubt he would even get a phone interview from anyone who Googled him.

Forgot about that. Well Josh can still somehow find work. I know convicted felons who find work. It's hard but not impossible 

[Marigold]

I would like Josh to be well and live an emotionally healthy life. I wish his family well (anna and kids). I really do. 

I DO NOT want Josh to fail because if he fails, that could mean harm to another person. I want everyone to be safe. 

I also wish that he would get better counseling for himself. From what we have read, it doesn't seem he has worked with a licensed counselor specializing in his issues. (I hope he has!). Josh is a grown man and he really needs to take care of himself which will, in turn, help his wife and children. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Marigold

[FakeJoshDuggar]

51 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Josh can get the help he needs. He should not blame his lack of getting the proper help on his parents or Anna. He has a brain and a conscious. It is about time he starts using both.

He also had a job that paid $100k a year as the director of FRC Action. He had a choice to go get real, authentic counseling or to go to bible jail. He made his choices and as BigSkyGirl pointed out, it's long past due for him to be responsible and accountable for his own actions.

[bigskygirl]

I may not agree with Josh's views, but I want him to be healthy emotionally and physically. When he is healthy, so will Anna and the children be healthy and happy. Imo, I do not think Josh and Anna (and possibly the children) are not in a happy, safe, or healthy place.

[Almost 3000]

2 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Josh, on the other hand, can a flying leap at a rolling donut.

He'd probably like that. Eat it or screw it, Josh is obsessive about both.

[bigskygirl]

If a fellow poster is bothering you, the mods suggest using the Ignore Button Feature. Please remember not everyone will agree with your thoughts and opinions. Stating your personal views without attacking other posters is the way to go. We do appreciate your cooperation and patience. Thank you.

[Fallacy]

I have a question. If someone is charged with a sex crime as a juvenile offender (under the age of 18), they don't stay on the sex offender registry after their release, right? I ask because Josh was 14-15 when he offended but he basically will forever be a public sex offender thanks to the Internet. If he wasn't a celebrity, if he was just some random 14-15 year old, his record would be expunged and he wouldn't be on the registry, right? In my mind, that fact means that Josh is currently facing tougher consequences for his sex crime today than he would if he wasn't a celebrity. 

I really am not sympathizing with him at all here. I just disagree with the claim that Josh hasn't had to deal with any consequences for his actions. I would think the entire world knowing what he did and hating him for it forever and always is a pretty big consequence. 

[JoanArc]

Josh never went to trial or was convicted. He's not (technically) a sex offender.

[farmgal4]

On May 9, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Sew Sumi said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news regarding the fake pigtails, but check out poor Meredith in THIS video probably made this past week: 

 

On May 9, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Sew Sumi said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news regarding the fake pigtails, but check out poor Meredith in THIS video probably made this past week: 

[farmgal4]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

I may not agree with Josh's views, but I want him to be healthy emotionally and physically. When he is healthy, so will Anna and the children be healthy and happy. Imo, I do not think Josh and Anna (and possibly the children) are not in a happy, safe, or healthy place.

If you meant that Josh and Anna are NOT in a good place, I agree.  I think Josh is just going thru the motions.  I think that, deep down, it will be a long, long time before Anna can really trust Josh again, if ever.  I know from experience how miserable it is being in a relationship with someone you can't really trust.  Trust is the cornerstone of a good relationship IMO.

[ariel]

1 hour ago, Fallacy said:

I have a question. If someone is charged with a sex crime as a juvenile offender (under the age of 18), they don't stay on the sex offender registry after their release, right? I ask because Josh was 14-15 when he offended but he basically will forever be a public sex offender thanks to the Internet. If he wasn't a celebrity, if he was just some random 14-15 year old, his record would be expunged and he wouldn't be on the registry, right? In my mind, that fact means that Josh is currently facing tougher consequences for his sex crime today than he would if he wasn't a celebrity. 

If Josh had been charged as a juvenile (and he wasn't) his records would have been sealed.  We wouldn't have know anything about what he did. You can't blame the internet for this.

Edited May 13, 2016 by ariel

[kassygreene]

One of the ironies of Josh's situation is that if his parents hadn't so successfully covered up, he would have been dealt with as a minor, it is possible the relevant Arkansas judiciary would have insisted on real-world (non-patriarchal) treatment, and the records would have been sealed or destroyed or whatever is the process when he came of age.  Instead the clock was run out, but then someone tipped the Oprah people, who reported it back to Arkansas, and at that time a new set of records came into being, records written after Josh turned 18, and therefore when he was no longer a juvenile to be protected.

He never received effective help, but in the terms of his own culture (having turned four of his sisters and two other young girls into broken bicycles), he did all the things he was supposed to do, and he was free.  

The thing that has always personally repelled me about any religion that basically gives you a get out of hell free card after performing the church-sanctioned processes of contrition and forgiveness, is that those processes (for some) prove to be so painless that it becomes the low cost of committing sin.  

As for the marital happiness, I don't think Anna ever knew there were other ways to be married (and I doubt she ever will), but Josh has been very clearly tired of his life as a sub-patriarch with his own growing brood for a long time.  The announcement of M4 was not made by a happy father-to-be.

[allonsyalice]

1 minute ago, ariel said:

If Josh had been charged as a juvenile, his records would have been sealed. 

Yup. (at least here in Canada, but I can't fathom why it would be different in Arkansas.) Not a lawyer, but did suffer through a law and ethics course this year. He and his victims were underaged, so records would be sealed and there'd be a pub ban (meaning media wouldn't be allowed to publish names.) But of course, that's if they are charged/taken to court, but he wasn't (as we know)

Anyway, I also agree that Josh is grown. He can get the help he needs for both himself and his family. Staying in the house isn't helping him and he can make his own decisions. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, new jersey devil said:

I'll pass on the book recommandation, as I already know as much as I'm likely to be interested in, about the man. There was no need to go over all this as I've lurked for months and I've heard it quite alot as it is rehashed to a degree I find comical and sad at the same time.

I'd suggest some people should get a hobby, but Josh would appear to be the chosen hobby of many, these days.

And honest question, but the word "redemption" is thrown around these parts quite a bit, but don't most here WANT the man to continue to fail, in the worst way possible?

Seems like it, to me...

Jersey Devil,

you asked the question, so since I hadn't seen you on the forum before, I tried to give you the short story. You were asking what seemed a fair and innocent question.

Many of us who post here attended churches at one time or another (or close friends or family of people who did) that were similar though not as severe as the church/doctrine the Duggars adhere to when we were much younger and didn't get a say so but now attend more moderate churches  or not at all now and have found the views espoused by the Duggars and their ilk to be too harsh and sometimes too absurd for us.  Though most of us would defend their right to believe as they choose provided they do no harm to others.

i personally don't want Josh or any of those kids to fail, but as long as he doesn't get qualified help for himself, his chances aren't good for him to have a healthier perspective on life.  We are all concerned not just for Josh but the welfare of all children who are trapped in this cult who don't get a say so...they are deliberately kept undereducated and are often living in  unsanitary, crowded conditions, and many of the kids are physically and mentally abused and isolated...many do not attend any brick and mortar church or any type of brick and mortar school, aren't allowed to have friends or play sports.  Even Christian schools and counsellors are not to be sought out by the group the Duggars belong to.

Josh probably couldn't get very far on his limited education even if he could run away.  I wish no harm to Josh or his family or even his crazy parents who messed up their kids. Josh not being able to go anywhere without being recognized and everyone knowing what he'd done must be hard....that shame alone is more punishment than most would or could endure themselves. 

And, thank you for your service. My brother served in the Air Force and National Guard Reserves.

It's the cult and bad parenting we snark about....we would cheer any Duggar who wanted to break free!

Edited May 13, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[toodles]

The first statement he made stated that Satan built a fortress in his heart.  All the further statements were watered down.  Yeah, he said he was a hypocrite when the first statement bombed but the duggar machine tried to deflect the blame away from smuggar and lay it on another force.  I've said this before but his children will get ahold of this mess someday.  Hopefully the brainwashing will leave some room for independent thought.  Maybe, just maybe, one of his children will want the real truth from their parents and will demand some answers to hard questions.

 

But this is pretty far in the future.  Who knows what will happen between now and then.

[Arwen Evenstar]

23 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Sorry guys, but the person has declined my request to post details, as the person could be identified by their occupation and location. 

Shucks, Sumi!  But respect the wishes of your friend you must.

Not surprised TDFW is an asshat..he looks the type...like the kid who farts in school and blames someone else.  I hope he doesn't take his anger out on poor Prissy.  I'm gob smacked how much he and Prissy look alike without the matchy matchy clothes.

[new jersey devil]

3 hours ago, Fallacy said:

I have a question. If someone is charged with a sex crime as a juvenile offender (under the age of 18), they don't stay on the sex offender registry after their release, right? I ask because Josh was 14-15 when he offended but he basically will forever be a public sex offender thanks to the Internet. If he wasn't a celebrity, if he was just some random 14-15 year old, his record would be expunged and he wouldn't be on the registry, right? In my mind, that fact means that Josh is currently facing tougher consequences for his sex crime today than he would if he wasn't a celebrity. 

I really am not sympathizing with him at all here. I just disagree with the claim that Josh hasn't had to deal with any consequences for his actions. I would think the entire world knowing what he did and hating him for it forever and always is a pretty big consequence. 

I agree. 

[Sew Sumi]

If Josh hadn't chosen to live his adult life in the public eye (both via the show and FRC Action), I might have more sympathy for him. But he CHOSE to be a public figure, and as such, is going to naturally be judged by the court of public opinion. It's the tradeoff all celebs make for all the money they make. 

But truth be told, if this all came out regarding a private person that I knew, I don't think I'd have much more sympathy unless they made REAL attempts at REAL therapy and recovery, whatever that entails. Jesus Jail just reminded Josh of the lessons of his youth; it's been apparent for some time that he hasn't been all-in on the fundie train, despite what he was saying and doing. The guy needs real counseling, not bible study five times a day. He can already recite chapter and verse by rote; I don't think he learned anything new there, other than how to bury himself even deeper in his "addictions." And no, I don't think he's an addict, just a cheating asshole with molestations in his past. That's plenty.

[BitterApple]

I respect all opinions, just throwing out some food for thought:

http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2015/05/21/3661984/9-times-josh-duggar-lectured-people-family-values-admitted-child-molester/

Edited May 13, 2016 by BitterApple