Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

So if the article is true, it would be Amy, Deanna, Grandma or Grandpa. And Josh watching porn as a teen is old news, he was caught doing that on a campaign.

Edited November 19, 2015 by GeeGolly

[lafcolleen]

If they fight it, they'd probably win BUT Josh would have to go on record about this stuff, right?

I think you have nailed it. I'm going to assume that this is not a 100% cold blooded money grab. In other words, something happened that made her mad enough / hurt enough to take legal action.

But there are plenty of cases where there is a valid claim, but the money you can recover isn't enough for it to be worth a lawyer's time.

$500,000 is a lot of money. I see three possibilities:

1) whatever happened was serious enough to actually result in real costs to her. (Medical bills, lost wages, adverse impact on her ability to work etc) and her lawyer accordingly has strong negotiating leverage;

2) she's got no where near that level of damages and the someone has really unrealistic expectations about monwy damages; or

3) the damages claimed were designed to be high enough to avoid a quick settlement. In other words, plaintiff wants the case to stay alive because she is after something else.

Obviously there are other possibilities, but these seem most likely to me.

#3 is the most interesting to me. To really let my imigination run wild, what could she get other than money? (Settlements can contain any exchange that is otherwise legal - it doesn't have to be cold hard cash). I don't think Josh has much that would interest her.

So what else? The goal could be to force him to participate in discovery (like a deposition) about his various activities.

She could just be interested in humiliating him. But to really, really get into wild speculation - perhaps she was encouraged to file the suit by a tabloid interested in getting dirt directly from Josh?

[JoanArc]

That was on campaign computers....this was his home PC. But yeah, mostly old news.

[kaleidoscope]

Josh has made People: http://www.people.com/article/porn-star-sues-josh-duggar-assault-battery-alleged-sexual-encounter

and

USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2015/11/18/josh-duggar-sued-by-porn-star-for-sexual-assault/76008134/

[FakeJoshDuggar]

I think you have nailed it. I'm going to assume that this is not a 100% cold blooded money grab. In other words, something happened that made her mad enough / hurt enough to take legal action.

But there are plenty of cases where there is a valid claim, but the money you can recover isn't enough for it to be worth a lawyer's time.

$500,000 is a lot of money. I see three possibilities:

1) whatever happened was serious enough to actually result in real costs to her. (Medical bills, lost wages, adverse impact on her ability to work etc) and her lawyer accordingly has strong negotiating leverage;

2) she's got no where near that level of damages and the someone has really unrealistic expectations about monwy damages; or

3) the damages claimed were designed to be high enough to avoid a quick settlement. In other words, plaintiff wants the case to stay alive because she is after something else.

Obviously there are other possibilities, but these seem most likely to me.

#3 is the most interesting to me. To really let my imigination run wild, what could she get other than money? (Settlements can contain any exchange that is otherwise legal - it doesn't have to be cold hard cash). I don't think Josh has much that would interest her.

So what else? The goal could be to force him to participate in discovery (like a deposition) about his various activities.

She could just be interested in humiliating him. But to really, really get into wild speculation - perhaps she was encouraged to file the suit by a tabloid interested in getting dirt directly from Josh?

I wonder what kind of backlash she has received since coming forward. The fundie crowd isn't as nice as they'd have you believe. Furthermore, there seems to be quite a buzz going on around Josh this week. The article about the flight details and weather conditions coming out a day before this lawsuit? They obviously knew it was coming. They've been given a heads up about every other article that's come out this year, minus the Ashley Madison scandal, for which I think caught them all of guard since it wasn't an investigative piece, just hackers. Edited November 19, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[Mrs. P.]

If they fight it, they'd probably win BUT Josh would have to go on record about this stuff, right?

This is the Duggars big problem. If they don't settle, they go to trial. With that comes discovery, including interrogatories which must be answered under oath. There will also be depositions, where nothing in Josh's past will be off the table. Josh, JimBob, and Michelle will have to answer every question, again under oath. I don't think they'll be willing to let all the dirty laundry come out.

I also wonder how this would impact any future the Duggars might have with TLC.

[NikSac]

Josh has made People: http://www.people.com/article/porn-star-sues-josh-duggar-assault-battery-alleged-sexual-encounter

and

USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2015/11/18/josh-duggar-sued-by-porn-star-for-sexual-assault/76008134/

 

Ugh do they really have to give this sleazeball MORE press?  I mean at least it's bad press, but honestly I'd rather see him totally ignored by the media.

[drafan]

This is the Duggars big problem. If they don't settle, they go to trial. With that comes discovery, including interrogatories which must be answered under oath. There will also be depositions, where nothing in Josh's past will be off the table. Josh, JimBob, and Michelle will have to answer every question, again under oath. I don't think they'll be willing to let all the dirty laundry come out.

I also wonder how this would impact any future the Duggars might have with TLC.

 

Under oath??? Like that's any different??? They will blatantly lie to save their asses and, more importantly, the spin-off show. They've lied on TV...why would they stop now???? I bet Boob still thinks he's getting his original show back.

[Isthisok]

I say they'll settle and claim that it was to protect the poor children and his precious family from these hurtful lies.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Isthisok

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Ugh do they really have to give this sleazeball MORE press? I mean at least it's bad press, but honestly I'd rather see him totally ignored by the media.

Yes, yes, yes. The Duggar Family thinks that if they bury their heads in the sand and ride out the public's short term memory, we'll forget. Nope. Let them continue swimming in bad press since they refuse to step away from reality television.

[Arwen Evenstar]

What has always been so ironic to me is that the most vocal opponents of porn are also its largest consumers. Even Osama bin Laden's computer was found to be riddled wth porn

Smuggs is definitely a cautionary tale against an uber-repressed upbringing! it doesn't work.. the more forbidden something is...the more people want to do it...

[JoanArc]

 

This is the Duggars big problem. If they don't settle, they go to trial.

They really should've just vanished when Joshgate I came to light. No interviews or public statements. Unfortunately, they're addicted to the limelight. Addicts will do anything to justify getting one more fix.

[Wellfleet]

This is the Duggars big problem. If they don't settle, they go to trial. With that comes discovery, including interrogatories which must be answered under oath. There will also be depositions, where nothing in Josh's past will be off the table. Josh, JimBob, and Michelle will have to answer every question, again under oath. I don't think they'll be willing to let all the dirty laundry come out.

I also wonder how this would impact any future the Duggars might have with TLC.

 

Yes to all of this. In fact, I can't believe there isn't already some kind of a morality clause in the TLC contract. But then again, TLC doesn't seem to do business the way other networks do, so maybe they DON'T have that. However, I'd still like to hear TLC senior management explain why they bounced Honey Boo-Boo off within a day or two, yet continue to cling to the Duggars, despite all of Josh's issues and the continuing bad press they've been receiving - since people have begun taking a longer, deeper look at "America's biggest family."

[iwadrade]

What has always been so ironic to me is that the most vocal opponents of porn are also its largest consumers. Even Osama bin Laden's computer was found to be riddled wth porn

Smuggs is definitely a cautionary tale against an uber-repressed upbringing! it doesn't work.. the more forbidden something is...the more people want to do it...

Agree! People that don't have an issue with  porn do not have their computers filled with it. A site or two in their search history not THOUSANDS of saved videos. Josh's computer must be filled to the brim. Yikes!

[Almost 3000]

Last evening when I read this, I gave it a heartfelt virtual slow clap. Great insights!

 

And I got to thinking* 

 

Here's what I thought. Josh could grow a pair, and tell his parents: "Look, I want no further part of the Duggar family circus. I want to get some kind of job to support my wife and family that has nothing at all to do with being in the public eye. No more appearances, speeches, statements to the press, exclusive magazine deals, or Redemption Tour, and no more cameras in my face or in my house. I am henceforth private citizen Josh Duggar and my marital status, sexual behavior, and religious thinking? Are nobody's business but mine (and my wife's)."

 

Which of course reminded me that Josh was the Number One Son and Crown Prince of the Duggar family circus for so long, that I don't really see that happening. It's way too comfortable inside that tent; you don't have to worry where your next meal is coming from, and you get to be famous. Although Josh is feeling the other side of the two-edged sword of fame these days.

 

Jim Bob firmly shoved his family out in the public eye well before TLC came calling. And he really pushed Josh out there. Remember? JB hauled a young Josh - still a kid - around the Arkansas Statehouse with him, when he was in the State Legislature. I read that JB would bring Josh with him in many situations where it wasn't appropriate. I wonder if in JB's mind, Josh was his "accountability partner." Whatever it was for, I doubt it was for Josh's benefit. He was an appurtenance of JB. 

 

So after all this time, the Duggars are definitely a TV family and in the public eye. JB, MEchelle, their two married daughters, and their sons-in-law, are chasing the fame like hungry dogs running after the butcher's van. What Jill/Jessa said on the Faux News interview was such bullshit: "We're not really a television family. We're just a family that's on TV." No, honey, that horse left the barn more than a decade ago. 

 

Now that JB's created the Duggar Family Fame Machine, I agree with Churchhoney that he's having trouble controlling it. It's totally bizarre that an adult male in 21st Century America, not suffering any physical or mental disability, would be slammed into Bible prison for SIX MONTHS because he had an Ashley Madison account and cheated on his wife with a hooker or two. It was totally about the Duggar Brand and not at all about Josh's wellbeing.

 

And here's where I too think "Poor Josh." which is notable because like Churchhoney I can't stand him and I think "Smuggar" is a perfect name for him. I wonder if it's ever occurred to him to try to drop out of the public eye, as an actual life choice for the future. Or if he's never even questioned that he has to do whatever his parents decree because they control his life and his income and he's OK with them controlling his life and his income. 

 

------

*Note to self: if you're thinking about Josh Duggar? You really need to Get A Life, STAT.

I've been thinking for awhile that Josh will probably end up in a similar situation to John Gosselin if he leaves the Duggar sphere. Josh has been incredibly lucky to have his media connections working for him. With those connections gone and his father probably not being willing to support any kind of job that doesn't produce results that Josh is going to find himself in trouble and will probably end up take over toilet duty from Ben. If he leaves he will probably not be able the support his family and if he divorces Anna I'm pretty sure he'll end up alone with his porn. I don't think he'll have much success in turning this mess around.

 

 

Ms Dillon did do a ton of porn, 100-160 films/scenes including (porn terminology in spoiler)

anal double penetration scenes, "cum swapping" and in general, lots of anal scenes

, and she's 28, and 25 year olds are considered MILFs, i.e. over the hill, in the porn industry, so her career could've dried up due to that fact alone. I'm not a lawyer or a psychiatrist, but her job was to routinely perform anal sex, It's gonna be hard to prove that despite all that, what Josh did was the worst of all that she's experienced.

I'd love to be there as the Duggar's Christian lawyer cross examines Ms. Dillon. Edited November 19, 2015 by Almost 3000

[Tunia]

I'd love to be there as the Duggar's Christian lawyer cross examines Ms. Dillon.

 

It would be a great case for Wild About Trial to cover live.

[whydoiwatch]

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1103293/anna-duggar-gives-parenting-advice-as-new-rumors-surface-about-josh​

 

THIS is why I can't stand Goody Smugger. She is as addicted to attention as the rest of them. Spewing out babies does not make you an expert, Anna. Sit back, chill and remember who you created these babies with.

[dillpickles]

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1103293/anna-duggar-gives-parenting-advice-as-new-rumors-surface-about-josh​

THIS is why I can't stand Goody Smugger. She is as addicted to attention as the rest of them. Spewing out babies does not make you an expert, Anna. Sit back, chill and remember who you created these babies with.

This family loves giving out advice, don't they?

[Trillium]

Her brilliant parenting advice is to pay attention and spend time with your kids? And it took her to M#3 to realize that? Is this bitch for real?

[Purpose to defraud]

Jim Bob must be absolutely furious at Josh. Due to him, the family lost their show and speaking engagements. So after he lost his income, because of Josh, JB has to support Anna and the children and pay for the rehab. Now Josh is being sued and JB has to pay to deal with the lawsuit. Josh's mistakes are costing JB a fortune.

True, but JB and Mechelle's poor parenting cost Josh much, much more.

[JoanArc]

 

This family loves giving out advice, don't they?

Beats taking it.

[Aja]

How much more skeevy can this all get? I realize Anna will never leave because she's a spineless nincompoop for Christ, but I hate the message it sends her kids. People talk even in fundie circles no doubt and they'll learn the whole sordid story. The boys are learning that you can humiliate the mother of your children and she will take it with a smile. The girls are learning Jesus doormat 101. I can't imagine how awful it would be so uninformed and uneducated that you wouldn't run screaming to a divorce lawyer.

That really struck me. Profoundly disturbing.

[Churchhoney]

Jim Bob must be absolutely furious at Josh. Due to him, the family lost their show and speaking engagements. So after he lost his income, because of Josh, JB has to support Anna and the children and pay for the rehab. Now Josh is being sued and JB has to pay to deal with the lawsuit. Josh's mistakes are costing JB a fortune.

 

So I guess that kind of puts the kibosh on the whole premise of Duggar TV! Duggar Websites and Social Media Presence! Duggar Public Speaking Bureau and Special Appearances! Duggar Books! Duggar Preaching! Duggar Missioning to an Insufficiently Duggared World!-- That the Duggar way is the key to living a great, successful Christian life, free of all those naughty, yucchy things that ruin the lives of other people and that are bringing low this once-great country of ours.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Lemur]

THIS is why I can't stand Goody Smugger. 

 

OMG, I love this name.  Thank you.  You have made my morning almost bearable.

[BrianJ62]

I can't imagine if Josh turns up with an STD what the reaction would be (family, friends, church, public)? I'm just curious, I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

[kokapetl]

At the moment, with Josh in churchy prison, Anna can postpone making a decision about her marriage and continue to have JimBob pay the bills. She could leave with the 4 kids, but she's barely educated enough to work at Mcdonalds, and Josh won't ever be in a financial position to pay her child support. Should she leave, her parents won't help her. She can stay, it'll be degrading and she'll remain married to a piggish dead weight who probably doesn't love her, but his dad will pay the bills. She doesn't really have any good options.

The decent and therefore highly unlikely thing for Josh to do would be for him to insist on a divorce. Free her, and take all the heat himself.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Absolom]

Josh and decent, however, don't belong in the same sentence.  I can see Josh filing for divorce only to free himself to pursue his own interests.  I think Josh filing for divorce from Anna would be as much a divorce from Jim Bob.

[Churchhoney]

Josh and decent, however, don't belong in the same sentence.  I can see Josh filing for divorce only to free himself to pursue his own interests.  I think Josh filing for divorce from Anna would be as much a divorce from Jim Bob.

 

I agree.

 

I see Josh as such a lazy weenie, though, that I don't really think he'd ever file for divorce even for that reason. He's not brave, he has no interests (other than fast food, orgasms and fancying himself a big shot -- and the last of those is impossible now while the first two are pretty equally possible anywhere) , and he has about zero energy as far as I can tell. I wish he would divorce Anna, even if it is just to free himself. But I can't really imagine him doing it. Or doing anything except sucking at the Duggar teat to whatever extent he's allowed to, really.

 

I wish he would prove me wrong.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

Maybe the porn start lawsuit is the result of a shakedown gone bad?

I bet she tried hard to get money from Jim Bob and he ignored it or didn't pay her enough.

Danica moves to the next step. legal action.

[Churchhoney]

This family loves giving out advice, don't they?

 

Yeah. Especially for a compound that actually does nothing except produce more and more uneducated, untrained, unemployed adults who keep churning out additional dependents. If they were a village, they'd be considered one of the world's great economic disaster areas.

[Aja]

If they were a different race, I'm sure they'd be much more of a drain on society.

[Churchhoney]

If they were a different race, I'm sure they'd be much more of a drain on society.

 

New job for them --  poster family for white Christian heterosexual privilege. I think this probably explains the disparity with the Honey Boo Boo cancellation, too. Because the Duggs are such loud conservative Christians, their failure to hold to standards isn't even considered a failure to hold to standards, whereas it's doomsday for people in many other categories. Imagine a family where a gay teen lightly touched same-sex siblings over their clothing. How soon would they get back on tv?

[3 is enough]

Just chiming in to say that I highly doubt Jim Bob, cheap as he is, and with so many sources of income now gone for good, would put up the money to settle the lawsuit for Josh.  And why should he?  Josh was well over 21.  Poor parenting and a lousy upbringing aside, he was the one who made those choices.  

 

If this isn't a "leave and cleave" situation, I don't know what is.  Jim Bob will probably continue to support Anna and the kids, but I have a feeling Josh will be left to fight this on his own.

Edited November 19, 2015 by 3 is enough

[willow2tree]

I wonder if Danica was pissed that the second magazine article didn't have a big ole picture of her next to Josh's?  It's all about the publicity (for both sides!), folks!

[BrianJ62]

I wonder if Gloria Allred will represent Ms. Danica? She might be busy as she is reportedly going to represent some of those suing Charlie Sheen.

Edited November 19, 2015 by BrianJ62

[Churchhoney]

Just chiming in to say that I highly doubt Jim Bob, cheap as he is, and with so many sources of income now gone for good, would put up the money to settle the lawsuit for Josh.  And why should he?  Josh was well over 21.  Poor parenting and a lousy upbringing aside, he was the one who made those choices.  

 

If this isn't a "leave and cleave" situation, I don't know what is.  Jim Bob will probably continue to support Anna and the kids, but I have a feeling Josh will be left to fight this on his own.

 

Wonder how much cash Josh has to hire a lawyer at this point? Will be interesting to watch, that's for sure.

[Marigold]

Jim Bob will get involved because Josh is part of the Duggar brand.

I bet Jim Bob wishes he could dump Josh, but he really can't. Josh is a jack ass and Jim Bob knows it. Aside from his vile acts, Josh is stupid...

If Jim Bob lets Josh sink, he could take down all the Duggars...like he did before.

[JenCarroll]

This is the Duggars big problem. If they don't settle, they go to trial. With that comes discovery, including interrogatories which must be answered under oath. There will also be depositions, where nothing in Josh's past will be off the table. Josh, JimBob, and Michelle will have to answer every question, again under oath. I don't think they'll be willing to let all the dirty laundry come out.

I also wonder how this would impact any future the Duggars might have with TLC.

I'm curious as to why you think Jim Bob and/or Michelle would be deposed for this lawsuit.

[SometimesBites]

Yeah. Especially for a compound that actually does nothing except produce more and more uneducated, untrained, unemployed adults who keep churning out additional dependents. If they were a village, they'd be considered one of the world's great economic disaster areas.

If they were a village, you'd never have to ask where the village idiot was.

[barbedwire]

I agree with 3isenough.  As tough as this is, this is a true "leave and cleave" moment.  They are doing enough housing and feeding Anna and the Mkids.  Let Josh figure it out.  Let Anna decide if she wants to stay for this ride.  If he has to dig himself out of this, MAYBE (just maybe) he might not do it again.

[NikSac]

Yes, yes, yes. The Duggar Family thinks that if they bury their heads in the sand and ride out the public's short term memory, we'll forget. Nope. Let them continue swimming in bad press since they refuse to step away from reality television.

 

Yeah, I guess that's a good point. I just hate seeing them get any publicity at all, it seems like it's just feeding the beast. But you're right, we probably do need the reminders.

[Purpose to defraud]

New job for them --  poster family for white Christian heterosexual privilege. I think this probably explains the disparity with the Honey Boo Boo cancellation, too. Because the Duggs are such loud conservative Christians, their failure to hold to standards isn't even considered a failure to hold to standards, whereas it's doomsday for people in many other categories. Imagine a family where a gay teen lightly touched same-sex siblings over their clothing. How soon would they get back on tv?

Imagine an African American family, who had baby after baby while crying to the community for support and help. 

Yeah, I guess that's a good point. I just hate seeing them get any publicity at all, it seems like it's just feeding the beast. But you're right, we probably do need the reminders.

And the mean girl in me, always too close to the surface, loves that once again it took the spotlight from Jessa.

[Marigold]

I posted I think Jim Bob will help Josh. But i wish he wouldn't.

Josh needs to provide for his family. I would hate for the kids to suffer but truthfully, if Josh got desperate letters from Anna like they are out of food and can't pay the electric bill, he might snap into reality. This church prison is like some down time for Joshie. he has most likely, learned NOTHING and hasn't gotten any better.

This constant coddling of the Josh the Village Idiot is not helping him one bit.

And coddling Anna isn't helping her either. It's easy for her to "forgive and move forward" when the Duggars are paying your bills, buying food and providing a roof for Anna.

Anna has suffered tremendous humiliation and a crushing blow. But, unlike most women with four little kids and no education, she is living large. She is lucky in that respect because as we all know, when a man cheats and then abondons you with the kids, you are pretty much fucked. Anna has non of those worries.

Maybe if Anna had shut off notices and had to scrounge around to get food for the kids, she would grow a spine and SET SOME BOUNDARIES for Josh.

Jim Bob and Michelle are making this way too easy for both of them. (I am glad the children are taken care of)

Edited November 19, 2015 by Marigold

[Churchhoney]

I agree with 3isenough.  As tough as this is, this is a true "leave and cleave" moment.  They are doing enough housing and feeding Anna and the Mkids.  Let Josh figure it out.  Let Anna decide if she wants to stay for this ride.  If he has to dig himself out of this, MAYBE (just maybe) he might not do it again.

 

Of course, since these are the Duggars, we always have to figure into predictions a very key point: They always do the wrong thing.

[Wellfleet]

I wonder too, about JB's & M's private conversations. Are those also filled with prayer and bible verses? Or do they get mad and talk like regular folk? I just can't imagine them saying something like "That damn kid, what was he thinking?!" Have they brainwashed themselves to where they no longer can think or talk without Gothard speak?

 

Yep, I have to say I'd give a lot right now to have mind-reading capabilities for just an hour or so, if it meant I'd be able to know what Boob & Me-chelle were actually thinking and saying. In the privacy of their own home, and without any 'blessings' within earshot.

[Churchhoney]

If they were a village, you'd never have to ask where the village idiot was.

 

I think this is my favorite post this week.

[kokapetl]

New job for them -- poster family for white Christian heterosexual privilege. I think this probably explains the disparity with the Honey Boo Boo cancellation, too. Because the Duggs are such loud conservative Christians, their failure to hold to standards isn't even considered a failure to hold to standards, whereas it's doomsday for people in many other categories. Imagine a family where a gay teen lightly touched same-sex siblings over their clothing. How soon would they get back on tv?

I think the real reason TLC cancelled Honey Boo Boo was because her family life was rapidly devolving into an acrimonious shitshow. The 'standard' they likely failed to meet was about their reliability to not engage in shortsighted, spiteful or appallingly negligent behavior, and how that could negatively affect the value of TLC assets or it's future profits.

I think TLC are going for a ratings "tent pole" programming thing for the new shows, the rationale being that they will make up the loss in advertising revenue in the Duggar show, when the larger than normal audience that tunes in to TLC to watch Counting On continues to watch the following show, which hasn't been boycotted by advertisers.

[NikSac]

I can't imagine if Josh turns up with an STD what the reaction would be (family, friends, church, public)? I'm just curious, I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

 

I'm still half waiting to find out he's got another child or children out there, too. (and yes I realize I'm contradicting myself since I was just talking about not wanting them to get any more press)

[Mrs. P.]

I'm curious as to why you think Jim Bob and/or Michelle would be deposed for this lawsuit.

Witnesses do not have to be a party to the lawsuit to be called to testify. I think the plaintiff's attorney will be salivating over the opportunity to uncover Josh's history with sex, women, and bad behavior, and the parents are the ones to provide that information. It could get really interesting, if the Duggars let the legal process get that far. I'm betting they won't.

[BitterApple]

I just wonder, what happens when Josh comes home? Even before the scandals his siblings acted like they wanted nothing to do with him. All the trips to DC were more for Anna and the kids rather than their brother. Is Bin expected to play nice with the guy who abused his wife? Do the younger kids know about Ashley Madison?

If Josh is back, the Holidays are going to be crazy awkward.