Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Saylii]

I have to imagine by now that Anna and Jim Bob have worked together to effectively hide most of Josh's money. Anna may have willingly given it all to Jim Bob for "safekeeping". We know shady things have happened with their house.

Josh is stuck. He doesn't have the money to pursue a higher education or even a trade. Jim Bob still has enough connections in Arkansas to blackball him from working with established electricians/plumbers/car mechanics. If Josh gets a minimum wage job at Walmart and Anna divorces him, he could be forced to give over most of his pay checks to spousal support and child support further digging the financial hole. To keep himself afloat, he has to play by Jim Bob's rules.

I wouldn't be surprised if he stays at RU just because it means he's away from his crazy family.

[Churchhoney]

Another problem I see the Duggar children having is they aren't allowed any close friendships within their peer groups. Even the friendships between the siblings seem to be discouraged after awhile. None of these kids seem particularly close to each other with the possible exception of Jessa/Jinger and Jackson/JoHannah. These kids literally seem too have no one to talk to. A good majority of them seem horribly lonely in a huge crowd of people.

I think Josh`s problem is that he is smart. I think he knew growing up there was something a little off about his life and family, he just had no idea how to fix it.

 

And not only do they have no friends to talk to, they're urged, lifelong, not to read, watch movies or tv -- i.e., not do any of the things other than conversing that can provide you with people's stories, ideas about human behavior, and so on. So they really have no ability at all to fill their heads with perceptions and ideas to help them think anything through, analyze their options, envision possibilities. .... They're pretty much stripped of all the tools that help you cope. I was a kid who also had no friends, but I damned well made the most of all the reading, watching and listening I could to find out what the world was about. The Duggs have very little chance, if any, to do this.

 

And then, Josh goes and proves the point that, when you're brainwashed not to consume any media, you'll go with that brainwashing in general -- thus forgoing so much you might learn and enjoy -- yet break from it when you're compelled by that strongest of motivations, the sex drive. Honestly, to me, their media prohibitions pretty much guarantee that at least the male Duggars will be very avid consumers of porn. ... I expect most of the girls won't, since I have a feeling they're too fearful of their anti-senses brainwashing and also too unimaginative to understand the possibilities. If any overcome that, though, I'm sure they'll like porn, too. One can only hope that somebody gets far enough away from the Duggar household and mindprison to expand from porn to other books and movies.

 

As we've heard many times, religious conservatives generally, even beyond the Duggar nutball fringe, seem to be the nation's hungriest porn consumers.        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/10/religious-conservatives-lead-the-nation-in-search-for-porn/

Edited November 10, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

I hope you're right but I have my doubts about him knowing the molestation was wrong. Even the people he molested don't seem to think it was wrong (at least, the ones who've spoken up so far).  "Eh.. no biggie.. he was sly and it happens all the time in our world" seems to be the sentiment.

 

I do think he wants to change and improve, I just have a hard time understanding if he knows what was wrong and why - and I doubt he'll learn that where he is now.

 

Yeah, I agree. This is a whole family who has the notion that, if somebody's asleep, sexually fiddling with them is not really a big deal. And, of course, a family who has the notion that women have virtually no agency of any kind, ever, that "Daddy has their heart" and then frigging gives it to some jerk who's passed his multiple choice test. Those ideas among many others that we've heard the whole damn Duggar clan spout show that he's enmeshed in a milieu that doesn't have a single clue about sex, love, abuse, crime, sexual ethics or any of it. He's a clueless idiot among clueless idiots, which doesn't give me a lot of hope for his level of real understanding.

[Mollie]

Josh is only 27 years old and is in a hole so deep that I can't think how he will possibly climb his way out of it. He has no skills and isn't educated. His reputation is shattered and he's creepy. He's not good looking or personable. He isn't physically strong. He's lazy. Josh has absolutely nothing going for him. Even if he can overcome his sexual problems, which I truly doubt, I don't see much of a future for Josh. His poor kids.

That would be my take on it, too.  When Josh was 14, his parents got him engaged to a girl who was also 14 in an effort to cure his molesting his sisters.  Then, it was broken off, then they were engaged again.  By the time the 2006 events escalated to police involvement, the engagement was broken off forever and Jim Bob went looking for another wifey for Josh.  That's when they found Anna, but her Dad wouldn't let her marry until she was 20, so they had to wait until 2008.  That was supposed to cure the sex maniac.  

 

Honestly, in that family, I think they have no idea what love between a man and a woman looks like.  Marriage for them is having sex and babies; it's not about true love and finding a life partner.

[JoanArc]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-sex-scandal-midwest-rehab-visit-sex-addict/

 

hmmm

[amitville]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-sex-scandal-midwest-rehab-visit-sex-addict/

 

hmmm

wow & hmmmmmmmmm

[barbedwire]

A family visit?  Wonder who was on that plane?

[Tabbygirl521]

How big a plane is it? Would they really have loaded up the whole friggin' clan??

[Churchhoney]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-sex-scandal-midwest-rehab-visit-sex-addict/

 

hmmm

 

Well, maybe. .... As far as I know, though, Flight Aware doesn't tell you the name of the pilot, as they strongly imply that it does here..... And if it doesn't, then there's never any real way to know whether a Duggar is flying one of their planes for Duggar activity or whether they're renting the plane out to somebody else. And I still think they probably do that, since why would they pass up the cash from possible rentals? There have got to be a bunch of airports closer to Rockford than Milwaukee (speaking of which -- Milwaukie!!!!) please. )

[lookeyloo]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-sex-scandal-midwest-rehab-visit-sex-addict/

 

hmmm

The comments are interesting

[Vaysh]

Has anyone here actually spotted Josh for real during one of the RU weekly bondage sessions? As in 'yup that IS Josh' and not in a 'the back of that guy's head looks a bit like Josh's if you squint' kind of way?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Vaysh

[JoanArc]

Has anyone here actually spotted Josh for real during one of the RU weekly bondage sessions? As in 'yup that IS Josh' and not in a 'the back of that guy's head looks a bit like Josh's if you squint' kind of way?

Inquistir had pictures of him at an RU softball game. Supposedly.

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2551918/duggar-family-abandons-son-josh-duggar-in-illinois/

Edited November 10, 2015 by JoanArc

[NewDigs]

"House of Horrors"?

Really?

You'd think they'd drag out pix of the place with the bunkbeds etc.

That place is incredible. Not to my style but good grief. A baby grand? Violins displayed on the wall? Looks more like something from RHoNJ.

I can't imagine they have any income but they're flying to Milwaukie (good grief), buying property and every day seems to be a "Starbucks" day.

A couple mil of net worth really isn't all that much money. But I don't know what their cell tower and used car businesses provide. I know towers can be lucrative.

They're like Lottery winners who think the money will never end and then piss it away on bullshit.

Maybe Josh could sell used cars.

[Sew Sumi]

The plane flew to Milwaukee. Since we know that Rockford has an airport, I find this flight unrelated to Smugs. Also, RU only allows weekend visits every 45 days. He is in between such visits right now. Also, JD can only have three passengers on that little plane. So there's that as well. The "whole crew" can't fly in that thing. 

 

The guys in the Inquisitr pictures are different (different caps). However, the kneeling guy in the darker cap kind of looks like him (I saw the pic blown up). It's possible. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[JoanArc]

 

They're like Lottery winners who think the money will never end and then piss it away on bullshit.

Ten years after the last TLC paycheck dries up n and all the fame is gone, it's not going to be pretty.

[Sew Sumi]

It's already pretty ugly. 

[NewDigs]

I don't think it's going to take 10 years.

TLC is the toss-up. Wonder if UP would have them.

So, when does Josh next reoffend? And doing what? Where? To whom?

Like a game of Clue.

[TaxNerd]

The plane flew to Milwaukee. Since we know that Rockford has an airport, I find this flight unrelated to Smugs. Also, RU only allows weekend visits every 45 days. He is in between such visits right now. Also, JD can only have three passengers on that little plane. So there's that as well. The "whole crew" can't fly in that thing.

The guys in the Inquisitr pictures are different (different caps). However, the kneeling guy in the darker cap kind of looks like him (I saw the pic blown up). It's possible.

I love how it's a pic of a chubby generic white guy, and no one can tell if it's Josh.

[JoanArc]

It's already pretty ugly. 

True. Looking at it another way - the lack of $$ might prod a few of the kids into telling Jim Bob and Michelle to F off. Jim Bob might not have much to fall back on. Financial independence is incredibly freeing.

[Sew Sumi]

Oh, I agree. It bought Smuggar a flight to RU on a family-owned plane in the middle of the night to ostensibly avoid the press. 

 

eta: I was just reminded that the Pub debate is in Milwaukee tonight. I think we can put the Smuggar/RU speculation to rest. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Vaysh]

Inquistir had pictures of him at an RU softball game. Supposedly.

 

I don't think that looks like Josh... *squints* But then again, the photo's so blurry it could be anyone.

[NewDigs]

Oh, I agree. It bought Smuggar a flight to RU on a family-owned plane in the middle of the night to ostensibly avoid the press.

eta: I was just reminded that the Pub debate is in Milwaukee tonight. I think we can put the Smuggar/RU speculation to rest.

Have to wonder who might allow themselves to be photo'd with the Duggar toxicity.

Edited November 11, 2015 by NewDigs

[Sew Sumi]

Fuckabee is still around, isn't he? That would be the obvious answer; he defended the Duggars after Joshgate I.

[NewDigs]

I wish they could kamikaze their way to the trumpster.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I'm sure the Duggars are at the Repub event in a desperate attempt to keep themselves in the news.

Though I don't think we should punish the family as a whole for the sins of the Smuggar...they have really all fallen from grace on some level....and perhaps some of that good old Christian modesty and humility would serve them right now if they just tried to lay low.

At first i wondered why people just didnt let them live and let live...but after things took a darker turn i could no longer say that anymore. Their way of life seemed rather benign and quirky until many disconcerting revelations about how toxic and insidious Gothard and ATI/IBLP really are have surfaced over the run of the show, along with the controlling parental behavior towards their adult children and how the daughters were seemingly enslaved.

Boob and Googly eyes did him, the Duggettes, Lonely J's, The Howlers, and The Lost Girls a great disservice by denying them a proper education and a chance to follow their dreams by going to trade school or college. Though Smuggs and the other adult children will one day have to stop blaming their lives on their upbringing...I know most of us would us would be greving the loss of our childhoods and normal life exoeriences...we see how well the Duggar Rules have worked ths far if Smuggs us any indicator..the chickens have only just started coming home to roost starting with Smuggs...I'm quite sure we haven't heard the last and we likely won't be surprised by what else comes out.

[cmr2014]

Question for those that watched this show while it was on the air - Did Josh truly love Anna?  Or was it more of JB set it up, and if he marries her he gets non-stop sex, so sign me up!!? 

 

I do think that he loves her -- I think that he his sexual problems have to do with his hyper-religious, hyper-repressive upbringing and his own personal lack of character.

 

Right before Anna got pregnant with M4, I can remember several of us posting about how happy they appeared to be -- it only took 6 years and 1000 miles between then and the TTH to make it happen, too.

 

For comparison, look at Priscilla and David Waller. That's a guy who doesn't love his wife. That's a guy who married because he was expected to court and marry somebody. They are an extreme example, of course, but Josh has always seemed to care about Anna and he doesn't have the same smug, condescending attitude toward her, that he does toward everyone else.

[latetotheparty]

Well, maybe. .... As far as I know, though, Flight Aware doesn't tell you the name of the pilot, as they strongly imply that it does here..... And if it doesn't, then there's never any real way to know whether a Duggar is flying one of their planes for Duggar activity or whether they're renting the plane out to somebody else. And I still think they probably do that, since why would they pass up the cash from possible rentals? There have got to be a bunch of airports closer to Rockford than Milwaukee (speaking of which -- Milwaukie!!!!) please. )

 

Rockford has its own airport.  I've been there.

[cmr2014]

Yes, Rockford does have an airport and JD flew Josh into that airport back in August. My guess is that the plane was leased to the Huckabee campaign to fly him (or his wife or some advisor) to the debate in Milwaukee tonight.

[Sew Sumi]

It definitely has to do with the debate. 

[bigskygirl]

Reminder: This is the Josh and Anna thread, not the Republican candidates or who can be part of the Republican debate. Please take it somewhere else. Political posts will be deleted or hidden at the discretion of the mods. Thank you.

[Marigold]

Josh seems to have two sides to him

The Duggar fanatical side

The sick Joshie who wants to be wild, kinky and engaged in molestation of sisters etc. Gross.

His Duggar side loves Anna and the kids. he has a nice family and probably wants it to work out.

The other side? WTF? Who knows....he probably wants a career as a porn producer.

[barbedwire]

I still think that he needed a sexual outlet that didn't involve making a baby.  He didn't seem too thrilled at the announcement of M4.  Taking care of/supporting 4 kids and a wife is hard, even in the best of circumstances.  He is now used to, and probably really enjoys sex, but deep down he believes birth control is evil.  So either he gets a secret vasectomy or do what he did.

[neural-plasticity]

To go back to the question of whether Josh really loved Anna or not. I rewatched the older episodes around this time last year, and I remember seeing their proposal and thinking how... odd... the dynamics were between the two that it's difficult for me to really describe with words. When he popped out to ask her, he was so smug and she was like a deer in the headlights. I'm sure Josh cared about her, but I also think he realized then that he would always have the one-up in their relationship, regardless of whether that was because they were fundies or not. It's like he automatically saw himself as the settler, and he knew that she knew she was the reacher in the relationship. I think in any normal healthy relationship, both will say they're the reachers and the other person is the settler, because they really feel that love for the person. They don't feel like they could do better (or would want to do any better). I think Josh knew that if he was able to date outside of their cult, he would be able to do better because that's just who Smugs is. That's not to say that he didn't love her or grow to love her. I just think he was so smug about who he was that he lacked that respect for her.

[kokapetl]

Anna certainly gave off the impression that she thought she was really lucky to be engaged to Josh. I think Josh found the wife he was looking for, but he didn't really want a wife. The way they had a no birth control rule set in stone with oaths at their wedding was a horrible idea, I wonder who's idea that was?

[lookeyloo]

Plus they were very young.  As for Anna, she had cameras in her face and part of her might have been thinking "I have to look right and say the right things".  It doesn't seem to me that any of them are spontaneous.  How could they be with all that watching.

[Aja]

Anna certainly gave off the impression that she thought she was really lucky to be engaged to Josh. I think Josh found the wife he was looking for, but he didn't really want a wife. The way they had a no birth control rule set in stone with oaths at their wedding was a horrible idea, I wonder who's idea that was?

That was uncomfortable too. She rhapsodized constantly about what a good, solid example of a perfect Christian man was her Josh-ooo-a. Even before the scandals, that was hard to watch. She barely freaking knew him.

 

I wonder what Anna will think when Mack and Meredith get to be That Age and want to marry uneducated teenagers and immediately start spewing forth babies. I've heard several accounts of women in the FLDS who only left when their 12 or 13 year old daughters were being promised in marriage to 60 year-old men as they had been. Suddenly, it wasn't quite as acceptable as it was when it was being done to them. Some sort of light goes on, despite the lifetime of brainwashing.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Aja

[kokapetl]

When you consider how deprived her life in the double wide in nowheresville Florida must have been, I can see why she felt lucky to score Josh, he also had most of his hair then, and he wasn't overweight. There was a real risk she'd be "left on the shelf" like Jana, or marked down for quick sale to a gay guy like Priscilla was.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Kokapetl

[BitterApple]

When you consider how deprived her life in the double wide in nowheresville Florida must have been, I can see why she felt lucky to score Josh, he also had most of his hair then, and he wasn't overweight. There was a real risk she'd be "left on the shelf" like Jana, or marked down for quick sale to a gay guy like Priscilla was.

Agree. Josh was actually a nice looking kid in his teens. He's the only boy who took after Michelle in looks. For a girl growing up in a trailer with seven siblings, scoring a Duggar would've been quite a coup for Anna. Given what a shitshow John Shrader is, Josh probably looked like Prince William to her.

[barbedwire]

Michael and Marcus, when they get to be teens, those poor boys!  They are going to be watched like hawks.  I just hope they can go to the bathroom by themselves.

[SomePity1066]

All I ever needed to know about how Josh feels/felt about Anna happened on the day of their wedding...

 

As they were headed into the hotel for the much-anticipated Wedding Night Josh fairly sprinted ahead of Anna, who was left, struggling, to pull the luggage into the room. I'm not making this up !!! I remember the black rectangle of the suitcase highlighted so perfectly against the stark, virginal white of her dress. It was heartbreaking enough to almost be funny. 

 

No help with the bags, let alone not being carried over the threshold - Anna was left to schlep their things into the room as Josh was probably inside ripping his clothes off as fast as he could. So, to me, that's just how he rolls, and it set the stage for their entire marriage. 

 

Very, very sad. 

[queenanne]

^^  See, I'd know this already.  It's one of my major deal breakers, partly because I've been single for vast swathes of my own adult life humping my own luggage.  The man who leaves me wrestling with luggage is a man who gets dumped.

[tabloidlover]

All I ever needed to know about how Josh feels/felt about Anna happened on the day of their wedding...

 

As they were headed into the hotel for the much-anticipated Wedding Night Josh fairly sprinted ahead of Anna, who was left, struggling, to pull the luggage into the room. I'm not making this up !!! I remember the black rectangle of the suitcase highlighted so perfectly against the stark, virginal white of her dress. It was heartbreaking enough to almost be funny. 

 

No help with the bags, let alone not being carried over the threshold - Anna was left to schlep their things into the room as Josh was probably inside ripping his clothes off as fast as he could. So, to me, that's just how he rolls, and it set the stage for their entire marriage. 

 

Very, very sad. 

My mind is blown with this info.  I just can't.  Anyone have a link to a clip of this?  It's just so absurdly unbelievable (I don't doubt you, SomePity!)  

[Sew Sumi]

My mind is blown with this info.  I just can't.  Anyone have a link to a clip of this?  It's just so absurdly unbelievable (I don't doubt you, SomePity!)  

It's at the very end of the "Very Duggar Wedding" episode. Totally disgusting. 

[TaxNerd]

My mind is blown with this info. I just can't. Anyone have a link to a clip of this? It's just so absurdly unbelievable (I don't doubt you, SomePity!)

I tried to search on YouTube for you, but got icked out by the results. Don't just search "Josh and Anna Duggar wedding night".

Just don't.

I wonder if the SOTDRT ever included lessons in basic etiquette and manners. If so, Josh must have been absent that day.

Or, maybe he was so used to moving around as part of the Duggar herd, that he had no clue how to behave when out with a young woman. You know, holding doors, handling the suitcases, that kind of thing.

IIRC, in the Duggar family circus, it was the girls who were responsible for packing the luggage when they traveled. Maybe they were also responsible for carrying it too. If so, Josh was just acting out of habit when he bounced into the hotel room and left Anna to do her luggage jurisdiction.

Selfish jerk.

It was 100% his parents not teaching him decent manners. It's truly like it never occurred to him.

There was anothet scene at an airport years later that was the same, Anna wrestling with the suitcases.

[queenanne]

In my experience no, for some reason, in with the hidebound family values from the Revolutionary War era, is no such fundie presupposition that they should follow the courtly manners of the Revolutionary War; or, in fact, even aspire to the manners of Downton Abbey.  The only important thing is to be holier than thou.  They don't devote one brain cell to worrying about whether or not they give others a distaste of their presence by chewing with their mouth open, openly passing gas at the dinner table, etc.

 

ETA:  Hey, maybe I just found Marjorie or a girl Dugs' vocation:  A fundie etiquette book!

Edited November 12, 2015 by queenanne

[Ilovemylabs]

Reminder: This is the Josh and Anna thread, not the Republican candidates or who can be part of the Republican debate. Please take it somewhere else. Political posts will be deleted or hidden at the discretion of the mods. Thank you.

Thank you.

[tabloidlover]

I tried to search on YouTube for you, but got icked out by the results. Don't just search "Josh and Anna Duggar wedding night".

Just don't.

It was 100% his parents not teaching him decent manners. It's truly like it never occurred to him.

There was anothet scene at an airport years later that was the same, Anna wrestling with the suitcases.

I found it, thanks to those that searched.  Just speechless at this point.

[Almost 3000]

My mind is blown with this info.  I just can't.  Anyone have a link to a clip of this?  It's just so absurdly unbelievable (I don't doubt you, SomePity!)  

You Tube: 17 Kids and Counting: A Very Duggar Wedding 7/7

Its at about 3:25 but frankly it wasn't as bad as I remembered it. Go figure.

[allonsyalice]

okay Josh is an awful person but wow the Ms got lucky with their names.

[cheatincheetos]

Michael and Marcus, when they get to be teens, those poor boys!  They are going to be watched like hawks.  I just hope they can go to the bathroom by themselves.

They will, but there will be "purity cameras" installed, and warning buzzers.

Edited November 12, 2015 by cheatincheetos