Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GEML]

But no DC native, no matter how talented, could have been an outreach person for ultra fundamentalist subcultures on behalf of the Republican Party. Josh really did have a niche that very few people could fill, and being angry that he had the talent, background and yes, ability to fill that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be disgusted by what he did.

In politics, people fill niches all the time. I don't hold it against him that he filled that niche. There are niches in my own party that even I can't fill. No shame in that.

[Morgalisa]

 

And once again, it's not really the crime, but the coverup that brings the whole thing down.

 

Or taxes.  Sometimes people don't go to jail for the crimes they commit, but the IRS will take them down.  How's Josh doing with that tax situation?

[SometimesBites]

To me, Josh and his pontificating have always come across as false bravado.  I think he was painfully aware of his lack of education, and tried to make up for it with his fancy speeches, and using big words (often in the improper context). 

I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)

[mangosplums]

I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)

 

This, this, this, this, this! From the second you see him you can tell this. He's one of those idiot douches that you can tell is naturally that way. I think he'd be one no matter what upbringing he had, though his upbringing makes it way worse. Some men are just naturally like that.

[merylinkid]

Josh came from little old Arkansas where he was a big fish in a small pond.   His dad had told him all his life how wonderful dear old dad was until "sin in the camp" derailed his ride to world domination.   Josh was told he was the chosen one and that "sin of the camp" was behind him.    With no education and little contact with the wider world, he had no idea how skewed his view was.   He thought he was being handed this cushy job because he was so wonderful and important.   And quite frankly who could blame him.   Aswesome job with little work but lots of perks and money?    Of course he believed it was because of how wonderful he was.   

 

Also, I think Dad got him the job -- even as competitive as dad is -- in order to expand his empire.   My son the lobbyist.   Next step the White House.   And Dad is too stupid to realize that their dumb yokel routine does not play well on a larger stage.

 

Both of them got a big surprise to find out that DC expects an education -- no matter where you are on the political scale -- and drive, and ambition.   That Duggar time is extremely frowned up on in a city where people get up at 5 am. go to work and get home around 2 am.  

[Churchhoney]

I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)

 

I only recently saw for the first time an early Duggar episode that featured Josh, and I was very struck by his air of privilege and arrogance, which I found odd and very offputting in a young kid. The same reaction to Josh as you're describing, in other words.

 

But I have seen him pretty often in the present day as the FRC spokesperson, and I've seen a tiny bit of him on the show. And during that time, he's seemed -- to me, anyway -- to be shakier. Arrogant, yes, but with hints of being a little less assured than he was pretending. I have read that as being some doubt creeping in to his psyche, as he learned a little bit more about what the world was like outside of Duggar castle where he was the crown prince.

 

That could be entirely reading in, of course.

[GEML]

I don't for a second believe Jim Bob got him the job. First, Jim Bob's political connections were far worse than Josh's. People who actually liked Josh didn't like Jim Bob. Secondly, the Duggars are nobody in DC. I know they all mean a lot to us here, but they aren't even C list in DC. Even at their height they could barely get a small audience at CPAC (in part organized by their own son) and politicians weren't always thrilled about having their support.

Do I think Josh planned to run for office? Yes. But this might even have been in spite of JimBob, not because of him. Jim Bob's foray into politics was BRUTAL. He likely knew Josh was in for trouble, and that it could take them all down.

And, indeed, it might.

[hendersonrocks]

Both of them got a big surprise to find out that DC expects an education -- no matter where you are on the political scale -- and drive, and ambition.   That Duggar time is extremely frowned up on in a city where people get up at 5 am. go to work and get home around 2 am.

 

I agree wholeheartedly about the need for insane drive and ambition to thrive in DC, but there are some seriously notable examples of successful political folk who don't meet the education expectation. (Karl Rove and Scott Walker, for example--I mean, they have more post-graduate education than Josh does in that they took some post-HS coursework along the way, but they still don't have bachelor's degrees. A quick search of The Google shows 28 of the 535 current members of Congress don't have bachelor's degrees.)

 

All that is to say, I think if Josh did have drive, ambition, and some natural skill he'd be fine in DC without a degree--but he's like 0-for-everything.

[JoanArc]

 

Or taxes.  Sometimes people don't go to jail for the crimes they commit, but the IRS will take them down.  How's Josh doing with that tax situation?

He paid it off a couple weeks before the scandal.

[Granny58]

I think certain practices common among those groups are abusive, yes. I really can't stand how the Amish in particular are often romanticized within the larger mainstream culture. (I don't necessarily dislike the Amish, btw, just the whole "omg they're so pure and holy and a throwback to simpler times and a Christ-like example to us all!!" attitude that so many of us have is completely misguided IMO.) 

I think I love you.  The Amish piss me off.  

[Marigold]

I am still amazed that Josh took such a visible job in politics.  Everyone knows that politics is a blood sport. Did he really think this wouldn't leak out? I'm stunned at the ignorance. 

If I were Josh, I would've kept sweet in Arkansas!  He had a nice deal going. He won't even be able to go back to selling used cars now.  

What a foolish move.  Well, not the first time, I guess. Politicians often do outrageous things and never think they will get caught or the behavior leaked to the press. It always shocks the rest of us...the lack of common sense. Duh. 

[GEML]

One of the smartest political operatives I know only has a HS diploma. Yes, DC is a city that runs on Ivy League degrees, but it mostly needs you to be smart. The Ivy League degrees are a short cut way of proving that, but it's not the only way. There's also political smart and academic smart, which aren't the same. Then there is niche smart and general smart. Josh had a form of niche smart - and with some time and drive, I think he could have made it. He would need to work twice as hard as some other people, but others have done it.

But he completely blew the niche chance. He sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Let's face it if the story was really going to be about Josh Duggar he'd be in on the interview.  After all he is a married man with children of his own.  If the purpose of the interview was anything other than an opportunity for the Duggar family (i.e. Jim Bob and Michelle) to whitewash themselves and try to salvage their reputation and their careers he'd have been involved.

Exactly. A married man, with children of his own, who, until very recently, held a highly influential position in which he potentially wielded influence to mold the opinion of millions and potentially shape public policy -- much of it involving families, ethics and morality -- at the national level.

 

Yeah. I think that's a person who probably ought to do his own interviews.

 

ITA.

 

But Josh didn't answer for his crimes then.  He's not about to answer for them now.  He'll leave that for his mommy and daddy to deal with.  Not that they will really answer for anything, either.  I think all they care about now is saving their TV show.

 

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?  

[Aja]

But this pudgy little disgusting geek can come here with a job handed to him on a platter and get paid good money for spreading hateful messages about people who've done nothing to him, all the while, he knows he's committed these unspeakable acts. That is what I hate about Josh Duggar and everything he stands for.

 

So succinct. So beautiful. This, to me, is also the crux of the entire disgusting mess. It's also what the leghumpers are COMPLETELY missing (since I guess child molestation isn't enough to get them to stop leghumping.)

Edited June 1, 2015 by Aja

[charmed1]

Yes but Rove and Walker are also considerably older than Josh and a generation or two ago, having a high school diploma was sufficient. The likelihood of someone with his lack of everything and his age getting a job making that kind of money in this town is highly unlikely. The competition is just too high. There are people with master's degrees willing to wait tables. I had to finish my degree late, and worked among other jobs, as an administrative assistant. Every admin job I applied to required a bachelor's degree and I was turned down by quite a few just for that reason. I remember applying for an admin job at one of the Big 4 and had to do a panel interview with about six different people. I got to the end and one guy noticed my resume said my degree was in progress. They told me good luck and come back when you finish your degree. Ouch.

The best job that the average 27 year old with Josh's experience and education in DC or Maryland could get would be a job in the mall. And those kids have more education than he has.

[farmgal4]

It begs the question, why the hell did he take the job in the first place? Given that politics is such a dirty business, he HAD to know this would blow up in his face eventually. If he were still Josh Duggar:Used Car Salesman I don't think we'd be here right now.

To answer your question: EGO

[JoanArc]

I'm sure Josh's FRC coworkers have some major gag orders, not to mention common sense, but I'd LOVE to hear the stories they have about Josh. Not pretty. I wonder if this scandal really shocked anyone who knows him well.

 

On another note, he really should've deleted his instagram. There's a lot of pics of him around kids and underage (teenage) girls. It looks so creepy...

 

Edit: Ecclesia College still lists Josh on the board of regents. Lols....

Edited June 1, 2015 by JoanArc

[jschoolgirl]

Coming from nothing to DC is HARD.

------------

Damned right, and I did it. I came here for college in 1976 from a NYS hamlet as a first-gen high school graduate. College was a terrible culture shock, but I stayed. Due to my intelligence, if I may say so, and my physical stamina, I got political jobs and my first Hill job *without* a bachelor's. I will say that 30 years ago when that happened, there were more people without a college degree. But I was ripped on to my face for not having one. Still, then and now, a bachelor's is considered what a high school diploma would be to the Greatest Generation.

Like Josh, I come from the country, and when I code-switch, I use folksy talk like Josh. But unlike Josh, I had a high school diploma, a wide vocabulary, and was (am) a voracious reader. Josh is not sufficiently educated and culturally literate to move in policy and poltical cirlces. I wonder if he even realizes it?

Edited June 1, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[farmgal4]

ITA.

 

But Josh didn't answer for his crimes then.  He's not about to answer for them now.  He'll leave that for his mommy and daddy to deal with.  Not that they will really answer for anything, either.  I think all they care about now is saving their TV show.

 

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?

I think if TLC drops them, they will start looking elsewhere, probably starting with the UP network which features the Bates family. Speaking of the Bates, I wonder if there has been any correspondence between the Duggars and Bates since this whole mess started? I watch the Bates show pretty often, and I've really grown to like that family a lot.

[AnJen]

I would love to hear JimBob or Michelle, or Josh himself, address why he felt it was acceptable to molest his sisters rather than just masturbate in the shower.

 

That's the one part of this story I can't get over; all sexual sins are the same in their eyes. I mean dancing or impure thoughts or actual sex...it's all the same to them. So why, when he made a "mistake" did he choose the mistake that involved anyone else, especially his as-young-as-5-years-old siblings? 

 

I specifically remember in one of the early shows, they specifically mentioned that the bathroom should be locked when in use (toilet/shower time), and that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom at the same time. I remember that it stuck out to me as super weird...my family has normal boundaries, but if you're in the shower and someone needs in the bathroom, we'll just unlock the door and go in. It seemed so strange and puritanical to me, that the scene always stuck with me.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a situation that doesn't point to sexual predator...at 14 you possess enough logic and understanding of consequences to help you make/not make a decision. He had to know that he was infinitely more likely to get caught at molesting his sisters than he would at masturbating. Even if he only ever intended to touch them in their sleep, he HAD to have known the odds of getting caught...yet he still chose to do it. To me, that says it wasn't about a sexual urge. He could have jerked it out in the shower and no one would've been the wiser, and more importantly, no one would have been hurt by that. 

 

This is the thing that bothers me, and I haven't really seen this discussed. I've seen (here and other places) where people have mentioned that if he were a normal kid who had been allowed to have a girlfriend or to masturbate that this wouldn't have happened, but from everything I've seen, he chose molestation over masturbation.

Edited June 1, 2015 by AnJen

[Sunnybobs]

I think he took the job because he was bored out of his head not selling cars in Arkansas - look back at his earliest Instagram feeds, it's all fast food pics, weather pics & some half hearted attempts to be political. That man was utterly bored with life. I don't actually think he's unintelligent though thanks to his parents is woefully uneducated- the job at a FRC must have appeared like manna from heaven to him. Also who really thinks they're going to get pulled up on stuff they did when they were 14, have probably assumed had been hidden and of course "in his head" was a forgiven and redeemed mistake. He must have seen that job and move as his escape route and goodness knows what he & Anna think now.

[Churchhoney]

ITA.

 

But Josh didn't answer for his crimes then.  He's not about to answer for them now.  He'll leave that for his mommy and daddy to deal with.  Not that they will really answer for anything, either.  I think all they care about now is saving their TV show.

 

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?  

 

Only too true.

[GEML]

I think the FRC job was his dream job. A chance to break into DC without credentials? He's always loved politics. We who do are strange creatures. I'd have leapt at that chance at his age.

And again, I just finished up 20 years in DC doing politics myself. (Mostly in VA). One of the smartest, and youngest operatives I know has a HS diploma. It is still done. But yes, almost incredible physical stamina is required. Josh didn't have that. I didn't either. That's one of the reasons I had to get out. (I have a BA, for what that's worth.)

[hwarner]

I would love to hear JimBob or Michelle, or Josh himself, address why he felt it was acceptable to molest his sisters rather than just masturbate in the shower.

 

That's the one part of this story I can't get over; all sexual sins are the same in their eyes. I mean dancing or impure thoughts or actual sex...it's all the same to them. So why, when he made a "mistake" did he choose the mistake that involved anyone else, especially his as-young-as-5-years-old siblings? 

 

I specifically remember in one of the early shows, they specifically mentioned that the bathroom should be locked when in use (toilet/shower time), and that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom at the same time. I remember that it stuck out to me as super weird...my family has normal boundaries, but if you're in the shower and someone needs in the bathroom, we'll just unlock the door and go in. It seemed so strange and puritanical to me, that the scene always stuck with me.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a situation that doesn't point to sexual predator...at 14 you possess enough logic and understanding of consequences to help you make/not make a decision. He had to know that he was infinitely more likely to get caught at molesting his sisters than he would at masturbating. Even if he only ever intended to touch them in their sleep, he HAD to have known the odds of getting caught...yet he still chose to do it. To me, that says it wasn't about a sexual urge. He could have jerked it out in the shower and no one would've been the wiser, and more importantly, no one would have been hurt by that. 

 

This is the thing that bothers me, and I haven't really seen this discussed. I've seen (here and other places) where people have mentioned that if he were a normal kid who had been allowed to have a girlfriend or to masturbate that this wouldn't have happened, but from everything I've seen, he chose molestation over masturbation.

This is an excellent point. Well said!

[GeeGolly]

I assume that Josh took the FRC job with some trepidation about his past being revealed. I also assume that the Duggar family believed that juvenile records would remain sealed. It is my understanding that both criminal and DCF records regarding minors are not supposed to be made public.

[GEML]

On the shower issue - we are assuming he was permitted shower privacy.

[bencr]

 

 

 

This chart shows how Fox News is nothing but a shill for the Duggar family. Specifically, as this chart shows, Fox didn't report the story when it first broke, presumably because it reflects badly on the Duggars and their conservative values. Yet, Fox News is giving the family two hours to make their case to the American public. This is why I never read a news story that is sourced as Fox News ... there is an agenda behind all of their reporting.

[Wellfleet]

My aunt lived there for 6 or 7 years and worked for a politician and loved DC, but she was single without children, and had so many interests, energy and drive -- it was the perfect match for her personality and stage in life. And I think she would have stayed there longer had she not been offered an opportunity of a lifetime in Brussels.

 

Comments about how rough Washington is always make me tilt my head too. I have 6 college friends who worked there, starting in their late 20s/early 30s - 3 of whom still do, and the only time I've heard any of them use the word "brutal" was when talking about the traffic or the cost of living. For the most part they all loved it, especially all the history, culture and diversity in the area. I think any of those in other cities now would go back in a second. I can see how someone in Josh's situation - no solid education, no erudition, someone who doesn't even read or seem to have much curiosity about the world - would find it tough. But he'd find any large cosmopolitan city difficult, as well as smaller cities.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Julia]

It's enough cheaper than New York that I seriously considered telecommuting from there if my husband could find a job in his field. 

[Seashell Lover]

I assume that Josh took the FRC job with some trepidation about his past being revealed. I also assume that the Duggar family believed that juvenile records would remain sealed. It is my understanding that both criminal and DCF records regarding minors are not supposed to be made public.

You are right that they are sealed but Smuggar did not have a criminal record all he has is a police report.

[GEML]

We do love it. But if you want to make it and not just make a living, it's not an easy place to do so. (And it's not the only place to struggle to make a name for yourself by any means.). And there are thousands of people who just make DC run. Their lives are rather ordinary. They could live anywhere, and just happened to be in DC. But others (and I think Josh is like this) are in DC because we are political junkies are need a fix, and are driven maniacs! :)

[Wellfleet]

One of the smartest political operatives I know only has a HS diploma. Yes, DC is a city that runs on Ivy League degrees, but it mostly needs you to be smart. The Ivy League degrees are a short cut way of proving that, but it's not the only way. There's also political smart and academic smart, which aren't the same. Then there is niche smart and general smart. Josh had a form of niche smart - and with some time and drive, I think he could have made it. He would need to work twice as hard as some other people, but others have done it.

But he completely blew the niche chance. He sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

 

Political smart and academic smart reminds me of a story from Tim Russert's book Big Russ and Me, where he talks about being a new staffer for Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan D-NY, one of the most intellectual politicians in recent history. Highly-educated and erudite, and apparently a pretty wonderful person too. Tim, IIRC, was from a working class family in Buffalo - his dad had been a trash collector - and Tim had a bachelor's from John Carroll Univ and his law degree from Cleveland State. One day he told Sen Moynihan how uncomfortable he was when participating in discussions with other staffers in the office, most of whom were Ivy League graduates like Moynihan. That he felt clueless and entirely out of his element. Sen. Moynihan told him something he'd never forget: "Tim, what they know, you can learn. But what you know, they can never learn..." Needless to say, Tim felt much better after that. 

Edited June 2, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Nochicfila]

Long time reader, first time poster. I may have missed it but I haven't seen anyone address this -

If Josh had not molested someone outside his family, this secret would never have seen the light of day. IMO, it's only because another child's parents knew that JB had to tell a church elder. Maybe that accounts for the year lapse. He'd gotten away with molesting his sisters so he moved on.

[xtwheeler]

I find it hard to imagine they didn't at least consider the likelihood this would surface at some point. I've said since I was 15 I already had enough dirt on me that I'd never survive being nominated for office. Plus, the option to have the victim(survivor) ask to have the police report destroyed was always there. They probably had too much hubris to even consider they needed to be proactive.

[Bella]

I think it's important to distinguish between political DC and non-political DC. If you're smart, the non-political side is fascinating and not "brutal." I'm self-employed just outside of DC and work almost entirely with government scientists. I love my work and don't feel the kind of pressure mentioned. I also love the culture, the museums, the restaurant scene, and a lot of other aspects of living here.

OTOH, I completely agree that this is no place for an under-educated person like Josh.

[silverspoons]

If I remember correctly Josh's big break came when he had to step in for Santorum a few times on the campaign trial giving speeches. This was when Santorum's youngest was ill. Josh was called the face of the young conservative family. Tony Perkins talked about it on one of Josh's first radio shows. FRC clearly had a plan for Josh. He was to get his feet wet and then during this election season he was going to be living in the FRC RV/Bus traveling to country on a grass roots mission to get the young conservatives rallied up. I feel Josh was a good fit for the job (not counting his past). If the FRC bus came to my city with Josh, I'll admit I would have gone to see it for a few minutes out of curiosity. If the FRC bus came without Josh, no way would I have considered going anywhere near it.

 

When Josh first got his job I was pretty mad at his fast track. I also had a good friend who was brilliant, went to the best schools, and started in the mail room for peanuts and was abused by everyone above them. I remember thinking this is the one of the smartest people I know, why would they turn down Goldman Sachs and other incredible international offers to work in a mail room for a politician and live in one room eating ramen. My friend lasted 2 years and then took a job overseas and then settled in the San Fran area. I went to his wedding and the connections he made in those 2 years in D.C. were incredible. He also had the best stories to tell about who he worked for. He says that hard work taught him what he wanted and was better experience for real life then his 3 ivy league degrees.

I hope that Josh has learned something from his D.C. job. Maybe it will just be he appreciates Arkansas more. I can only hope it has humbled him. I don't want to see him on my tv on a regular show again. If he does give one interview I would hope we could see the real Josh Duggar once. Even if he won't talk directly about his mistake. Is he that arrogant boy we saw in 17 kids as the narrator or the episodes and know it all? Would he ever admit to the stress of being a first born with a limited knowledge of the world? Did he want a career in politics or was it his dad's dream he was living? I really wonder does he even understand why the majority of the public is mad? Maybe he was so sheltered he told over and over again he was forgiven and healed, he believed nothing would come of this. I guess if we ever got the truth out of Josh about how sheltered he was raised and what his faith taught and his lack of schooling the Duggar's last 1% would implode.

[galax-arena]

I think it's important to distinguish between political DC and non-political DC. If you're smart, the non-political side is fascinating and not "brutal."

Yeah, and of course where politics are concerned, there are just people who thrive in that sort of pressure-cooker environment. I think my friend (whom I mentioned upthread; she worked as a campaign manager and now is a political director for a committee) is one of them. Maybe at a certain point we're just quibbling over semantics, but while my friend is insanely busy, I doubt she'd call her life in DC brutal or rough. She loves it too much. (I, on the other hand, would not survive a day in the world of DC politics.) Then again, this is the same friend who once visited me in NYC and later told me that she thought the city was too boring, so I'm pretty sure she's just nuts. ;) 

 

Anyway, not sure if Josh is the sort of person who'd flourish in that sort of pressure-cooker environment. I think he definitely probably liked the vibrancy of DC compared to his life back in Arkansas. But for the most part, IMO his job still had him ensconced in a safe cocoon/bubble of sorts. I felt like he never had to really engage the opposing side all that much, despite his posturing and persecution complex. I'm intrigued by the idea that he might have run for office one day. Can you imagine Josh taking part in a political debate? That would have been beautiful. 

[msblossom]

I really like this article's take on what the church's response should be re; sexual abuse. Basically states that the church cannot take the place of the State which is in place to punish crime. And note that the author is located in DC and has likely met Josh on many occasions as he is a conservative and president of the Ethics and Liberty Commission of the SBC.

http://www.russellmoore.com/2015/05/22/what-should-the-duggar-scandal-teach-the-church/

[Satchels of gold]

I would love to hear JimBob or Michelle, or Josh himself, address why he felt it was acceptable to molest his sisters rather than just masturbate in the shower.

 

That's the one part of this story I can't get over; all sexual sins are the same in their eyes. I mean dancing or impure thoughts or actual sex...it's all the same to them. So why, when he made a "mistake" did he choose the mistake that involved anyone else, especially his as-young-as-5-years-old siblings? 

 

I specifically remember in one of the early shows, they specifically mentioned that the bathroom should be locked when in use (toilet/shower time), and that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom at the same time. I remember that it stuck out to me as super weird...my family has normal boundaries, but if you're in the shower and someone needs in the bathroom, we'll just unlock the door and go in. It seemed so strange and puritanical to me, that the scene always stuck with me.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a situation that doesn't point to sexual predator...at 14 you possess enough logic and understanding of consequences to help you make/not make a decision. He had to know that he was infinitely more likely to get caught at molesting his sisters than he would at masturbating. Even if he only ever intended to touch them in their sleep, he HAD to have known the odds of getting caught...yet he still chose to do it. To me, that says it wasn't about a sexual urge. He could have jerked it out in the shower and no one would've been the wiser, and more importantly, no one would have been hurt by that. 

 

This is the thing that bothers me, and I haven't really seen this discussed. I've seen (here and other places) where people have mentioned that if he were a normal kid who had been allowed to have a girlfriend or to masturbate that this wouldn't have happened, but from everything I've seen, he chose molestation over masturbation.

I'm not being snarky when I ask this (crosses heart) but does anyone think Josh could be a sociopath? I don't watch the show and have never heard him speak but from the impressions and comments from the posters here, it does make me wonder.

Fwiw my husband went to medical school at Georgetown and we go back frequently. If Josh's reported salary is correct Josh made more than my husband did for the first 15-20 years out of his fellowship. But my husband has never molested anybody so I guess he wins.

[Aethera]

I'm not being snarky when I ask this (crosses heart) but does anyone think Josh could be a sociopath? I don't watch the show and have never heard him speak but from the impressions and comments from the posters here, it does make me wonder.

Fwiw my husband went to medical school at Georgetown and we go back frequently. If Josh's reported salary is correct Josh made more than my husband did for the first 15-20 years out of his fellowship. But my husband has never molested anybody so I guess he wins.

 

We've asked that people not try to diagnose anyone in this manner.  We simply don't know enough.

[Muffyn]

All that is to say, I think if Josh did have drive, ambition, and some natural skill he'd be fine in DC without a degree--but he's like 0-for-everything.

Hey now, he's  not zero for everything.  He definitely scored creepy molester points.  He is also up there for unlikable douchebag and limited world view.  Oh wait, you were looking at positive traits only.  My bad. 

[Satchels of gold]

We've asked that people not try to diagnose anyone in this manner.  We simply don't know enough.

So sorry :(

[SometimesBites]

Yes but Rove and Walker are also considerably older than Josh and a generation or two ago, having a high school diploma was sufficient. The likelihood of someone with his lack of everything and his age getting a job making that kind of money in this town is highly unlikely. The competition is just too high. There are people with master's degrees willing to wait tables. I had to finish my degree late, and worked among other jobs, as an administrative assistant. Every admin job I applied to required a bachelor's degree and I was turned down by quite a few just for that reason. I remember applying for an admin job at one of the Big 4 and had to do a panel interview with about six different people. I got to the end and one guy noticed my resume said my degree was in progress. They told me good luck and come back when you finish your degree. Ouch.

The best job that the average 27 year old with Josh's experience and education in DC or Maryland could get would be a job in the mall. And those kids have more education than he has.

^^^BINGO. And we've seen some of the materials they use at the school of the dining room table--those kids are not just inadequately schooled, but are systematically indoctrinated with horseshit. I'm not bashing homeschooling; I've seen homeschoolers who are quite brilliant young people...but only in cases where the materials and opportunities provided are inclusive and broadening, rather than exclusive and insular. Josh is a bloated, bloviating product of his parents' delusional thinking.

[Julia]

But then, if you look at who gets the Ivy admittances and the really good jobs, with all the educational advantages they had a fair number of them would have been SOL without their families pulling strings. Josh clearly wasn't qualified for an interview for the job he had, but he probably wasn't the only person he dealt with on the job who was swimming with the sharks because his family pulled strings.

 

Hell, Josh might've been president if he'd chosen the right parents.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Really, the fact that FRC would hire Josh - a young, sheltered guy with only a GED - for such a position says more about the FRC than it does Josh.

(Even the low-end suggestions of what Josh may have been making at the FRC are nearly twice as much as I make. I'm a few years older than Josh, graduated from a top tier university, and have a master's degree. So I understand the utter disdain for Josh getting that job & earning what he did.)

Edited June 2, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[mythoughtis]

I can't really fault Josh for trying to have an actual career rather than sitting around at the depressing car lot all day.  He 'didn't know what he didn't know'.  He had the cheerleader as his teacher, who mostly gave birth year after year, who taught him basically nothing.  His parents told him all was forgiven and he never even got charged... he thought it was all behind him.  It's only been in the last few years that every single person in the US has to wonder if every single transgression they have ever done will show up on the internet.  As sheltered as he was, he's got no way of knowing this. 

 

However, Jim Bob  as a former state rep, should have been aware of scrutiny like this, and should never have agreed to a TV show.  No TV show, no reason for any of this to have come out.  If Jim Bob had changed his family's lifestyle from fundy to moderate and put his kids in school when this happened, all of those children would have been better off. 

[MilkMachine]

I find it hard to imagine they didn't at least consider the likelihood this would surface at some point. I've said since I was 15 I already had enough dirt on me that I'd never survive being nominated for office. Plus, the option to have the victim(survivor) ask to have the police report destroyed was always there. They probably had too much hubris to even consider they needed to be proactive.

 

I've wondered about this since the scandal first broke. Notsomuch the Josh/politics angle, but the family's choice to pursue reality fame. By the early-to-mid 2000s I feel like it should be somewhat obvious that if you're going to be on TV then there's the potential for skeletons in the closet to come out. At the time of the first special the Josh thing was still a pretty recent skeleton. I have to wonder if there was a point where JB & M looked at each other and said, "If we go on TV [or pursue fame past the first or second TLC special], it's possible someone will dig up this dirt on Precious Josh."

 

My guess is that the other one said, "But free stuff" and that was the end of that discussion.

Edited June 2, 2015 by MilkMachine

[Julia]

However, Jim Bob  as a former state rep, should have been aware of scrutiny like this

 

Make that Jim Bob as a member of the Judiciary Committee of the Arkansas State House. I don't know if he lobbied for the job, but he sure as hell could have turned it down if he knew nothing at all about the laws in Arkansas.

[Churchhoney]

Comments about how rough Washington is always make me tilt my head too. I have 6 college friends who worked there, starting in their late 20s/early 30s - 3 of whom still do, and the only time I've heard any of them use the word "brutal" was when talking about the traffic or the cost of living. For the most part they all loved it,  especially all the history, culture and diversity in the area. I think any of those in other cities now would go back in a second. I can see how someone in Josh's situation - no solid education, no erudition, someone who doesn't even read or seem to have much curiosity about the world - would find it tough. But he'd find any large cosmopolitan city difficult, as well as smaller cities.

 

Oh, you're completely right about what a great, livable city Washington is --  so diverse, full of great people and with tons of things to do. Plus, it's beautiful -- overflowing with trees and flowers and parks. A few job sectors tend to be really difficult, ultra-cliquey, social-climbing and cutthroat because they're full of people clambering to be the closest ones to highest powers, though, and Josh D was certainly in one of those. There are others, too, such as the DC press corps. I agree completely that Josh would find any cosmopolitan atmosphere a problem. But he was in a cosmopolitan atmosphere -- which would be too much for him in any case -- and in a particularly hard-fighting sector of it. Couldn't have been pretty for somebody who came in thinking he was all that -- when he so isn't.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Churchhoney

[SmallTownMom]

Just read "Josh Duggar's 2012 year in review" on the Pickles and Hairspray facebook page.  Wow, every time Josh opens his mouth, stupid comes out.