Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[iwantcookies]

14 minutes ago, SmallTownMom said:

 

But at least she has a husband.

Not anymore (laughs evilly)

Oh wait JB is probably acting like her husband now!

[emmawoodhouse]

37 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Question:  Is Michell's signature with the heart as the dot actually her legal signature?

Yes. She signs her LLCs that way. How stunted is she? 

50 minutes ago, SmallTownMom said:

Does anybody else remember an episode where Josh and Anna had friends over for dinner (I think they were in DC then).  Josh wanted something from the fridge, so a pregnant Anna CRAWLED under the table to get it for him!  Many other times, we saw Anna pushing a stroller and carrying things while Josh just strolled along in front of her.

But at least she has a husband.

I'm pretty sure that's when David and Priscilla visited. Smuggar has always made Anna sing for her supper, starting on their wedding night when she hauled luggage around.

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Yes. She signs her LLCs that way. How stunted is she? 

I'm pretty sure that's when David and Priscilla visited. Smuggar has always made Anna sing for her supper, starting on their wedding night when she hauled luggage around.

Making your pregnant wife crawl under the table to fetch you something is beyond deplorable . I wonder what David and Priscilla thought about it? Is that something Anna’s mom did?

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

Making your pregnant wife crawl under the table to fetch you something is beyond deplorable . I wonder what David and Priscilla thought about it? Is that something Anna’s mom did?

Suzette keeps her mouth shut. Anything we know about the senior Kellers comes from Mike. The Keller spawn who have spoken of them just praise them in general terms. But I'm sure Suzette has been dutiful and compliant.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, SmallTownMom said:

Does anybody else remember an episode where Josh and Anna had friends over for dinner (I think they were in DC then).  Josh wanted something from the fridge, so a pregnant Anna CRAWLED under the table to get it for him!  Many other times, we saw Anna pushing a stroller and carrying things while Josh just strolled along in front of her.

Yes I remember. And let’s not forget on their HONEYMOON, Josh had her carrying all of the luggage, struggling with both of their bags while he just held the door!

Josh was always scum, and I cannot ever remember a time where I remember him treating Anna well or being sweet to her. JD, Joe, even Josiah I could see being nice husbands on a regular basis. Why is Anna so attached to him again?? (Rhetorical question I know)

[CandyXmasTree]

4 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

For what it’s worth, in California (I’m not sure about other states) single parents who qualify for TANF (welfare) are required to be working OR in training or school . During that time, they also qualify for SNAP (food stamps) and subsidized childcare. The state pays for their work/training/school. Some ambitious parents were even able to get nursing degrees. No idea if Arkansas offers similar benefits (I doubt it) but even parents with no previous education or work experience can make it work. 

I just checked the Arkansas welfare site and the parent must either be working or going to school and if the kids are old enough must register in a public school to get TANF money.

Edited May 16, 2022 by CandyXmasTree

[iwantcookies]

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2022/05/15/josh-duggar-reportedly-verbally-threatened-abused-by-fellow-inmate-duggar-neighbor-claims-inmates-are-stunned-by-joshs-character-convinced-of-his-innocence/

Oh cry me a river Joshua!

[Cinnabon]

27 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2022/05/15/josh-duggar-reportedly-verbally-threatened-abused-by-fellow-inmate-duggar-neighbor-claims-inmates-are-stunned-by-joshs-character-convinced-of-his-innocence/

Oh cry me a river Joshua!

Even other criminals hate abuse of small children, Josh. He deserves to be shamed and confronted with what he’s done at every turn. Maybe if he’d been treated that way after the last scandals, he would’ve thought harder about downloading CP this time.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by Cinnabon

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Even other criminals hate abuse of small children, Josh. He deserves to be shamed and confronted with what he’s done at every turn. Maybe if he’d been treated that way after the last scandals, he would’ve thought harder about downloading CP this time.  

IMO, Josh was confronted at every turn, but anyway, I'm not sure any amount of shame or punishment would have changed the outcome, or not by much anyway. Maybe things would have escalated more slowly, or even more quickly, but I think they would have escalated.

If the molestations and the CSA were his only crimes, them IMO, this is likely the best outcome (short of no offenses). By the time folks like Josh get caught there is usually much more devastation left in their wake. I'm certainly not meaning to discount the damage that the FF has done, I'm just saying it could have been worse (hopefully it wasn't).

And here we are - Josh behind bars. Josh with no internet. Josh with no access to women or children. The only crumbs Josh can clean up are his own. To me, that's a good thing.

[Gweilo]

I think that *if* Anna ever wants to get a job (unlikely), the only realistic way would be to work in some kind of family business doing back-end stuff. Not that I would condone working for JB, but given her circumstances it could be something like:

Help one of the various not-at-all-shady Duggar businesses with basic admin tasks like ordering raw materials, or answering emails, or inventory computer stuff. Probably unpaid.

Then, once she's got a little bit of experience, go work for another uber-Christian family-run business, perhaps get a bit of experience in rostering, or payroll.

Then perhaps another slightly bigger business being their all-around admin person. She'd probably only want to work for business that are openly super-Christian, but if she's in the back of house/admin arena, the general public aren't really going to find out where she is and start sending harassing letters.  I mean, I have no idea who does the accounts or logistics at my local family-run drycleaners so it can be a pretty anonymous job.

Anna is dependent on JB, so if he tells her to work for him, she'll have to do it. She should just try and leverage as much out of any situation as she can.

[BetyBee]

The easiest way for Anna to make money to support all her kids, would be to write a tell all. She's in far too much deep denial and JB would never allow that, so it's not going to happen. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

The easiest way for Anna to make money to support all her kids, would be to write a tell all. She's in far too much deep denial and JB would never allow that, so it's not going to happen. 

I'm not sure that would work. The money made off a book would likely only support them for a year or two. Then she would be back to square one, but without any Duggar support. Unless of course the Dillards would take Anna and the 7 kids in.

[sagittarius sue]

9 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2022/05/15/josh-duggar-reportedly-verbally-threatened-abused-by-fellow-inmate-duggar-neighbor-claims-inmates-are-stunned-by-joshs-character-convinced-of-his-innocence/

Oh cry me a river Joshua!

I enjoyed the comment re: the neighbor's letter, "what is this,  IBLP fan fiction?"

[BetyBee]

6 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

I enjoyed the comment re: the neighbor's letter, "what is this,  IBLP fan fiction?"

The pictures that accompany that article are hilarious. For example, Derick giving a thumbs up, Jana looking skeptical and JB posing with a "What can you do?" attitude. I don't believe for one second that the other inmates think Josh is innocent or that he's "saving" inmates from his cell. I do believe that he and his family are terrified of him being in federal prison. That part rings true. 

[FizzyPuff]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:36 AM, quarks said:

The widow story was mentioned just enough that I'm sure the basics of it - that Josh at one point sent this widow some sort of monthly payment - is probably true.

What I'm questioning is the reason for it. Because these folks are not good at charity - that's clear from these letters, where they all find very very basic acts of what might not even be charity completely amazing - which makes me think that something else was going on here.  Not necessarily nefarious, either - it could just be Josh quietly repaying a loan, for instance.

On Reddit they was speculating that Josh was having an affair with this woman and was paying her off for her silence, I wouldn’t be surprised but then again it’s Josh Duggar other than Anna whose obsessed with babies why would any woman touch that slug? 🤮

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, FizzyPuff said:

On Reddit they was speculating that Josh was having an affair with this woman and was paying her off for her silence, I wouldn’t be surprised but then again it’s Josh Duggar other than Anna whose obsessed with babies why would any woman touch that slug? 🤮

I would not be surprised either. Not saying that is what happened, but its not outside of the realm of possibility. As my grandfather used to say "some people live low to the ground", meaning there are scumbags everywhere. I have no doubt if Josh wanted to have an affair he could find someone. Even after everything was made public about him.

Serial killers have multiple people writing to them in prison and professing their love, so Josh having an affair and paying the woman off isn't far fetched. And this woman is a widow? People have been known to make irrational decisions in the face of grief, and if you have been taught your entire life that your existence revolves around pleasing a man, and the man dies, I would think you could be pretty lost.

[ginger90]

Note to self, if ever awaiting sentencing, get letters from inmates. I learn so much here.

[GeeGolly]

48 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Note to self, if ever awaiting sentencing, get letters from inmates. I learn so much here.

I'll write you a letter G90.

 

Dear Sir Judge ⚖️,

My sweet friend G90 is very diligent in writing on the boards. She has a heart to find facts for others and is quick to post the perfect photo for almost any discussion. We will miss her greatly during her sentence and have banned together with purpose of supporting her when she returns.

Sincerely, GG🧡

(came back to add, this does describe G90 and she is awesome)

Edited May 16, 2022 by GeeGolly

[Zella]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Sincerely, GG🧡

You need to add an i to the username so you can dot it with a heart. 😂

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure any amount of shame or punishment would have changed the outcome,

I agree. I think Josh actually enjoys humiliating people and that he is impervious to shame. So, someone confronting him and telling him that he is humiliating the family and shaming them or himself would probably just egg him on, IMO. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

18 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

For what it’s worth, in California (I’m not sure about other states) single parents who qualify for TANF (welfare) are required to be working OR in training or school . During that time, they also qualify for SNAP (food stamps) and subsidized childcare. The state pays for their work/training/school. Some ambitious parents were even able to get nursing degrees. No idea if Arkansas offers similar benefits (I doubt it) but even parents with no previous education or work experience can make it work. 

Most states have work exemptions for domiciliary parents with children under 5, or at least they did when I worked in social services many moons ago.

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I agree. I think Josh actually enjoys humiliating people and that he is impervious to shame. So, someone confronting him and telling him that he is humiliating the family and shaming them or himself would probably just egg him on, IMO. 

My thoughts exactly. I can’t pretend to know him or have studied him that much, but he definitely ticks narcissism boxes and given what he’s done, he does seem to enjoy others’ pain. Also, I hold pretty much zero hope that he will ever see (let alone admit) that he did anything wrong. Those types of people are super-frustrating. I often think the worst punishment is for people to truly understand and feel what they did was wrong and have to live with it. But some people are incapable.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong (for his kids’ sakes) but I’m not counting on it.

[Scarlett45]

40 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

My thoughts exactly. I can’t pretend to know him or have studied him that much, but he definitely ticks narcissism boxes and given what he’s done, he does seem to enjoy others’ pain. Also, I hold pretty much zero hope that he will ever see (let alone admit) that he did anything wrong. Those types of people are super-frustrating. I often think the worst punishment is for people to truly understand and feel what they did was wrong and have to live with it. But some people are incapable.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong (for his kids’ sakes) but I’m not counting on it.

Josh feels no shame. Only anger for the consequences of getting caught. He may have a teeny tiny itty bitty minuscule thought to what this is doing to Michelle, but to his victims, Anna, his kids? Nah, he doesn’t care. Those people are below him on the social hierarchy and thus they don’t matter.  

[GeeGolly]

36 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Josh feels no shame. Only anger for the consequences of getting caught. He may have a teeny tiny itty bitty minuscule thought to what this is doing to Michelle, but to his victims, Anna, his kids? Nah, he doesn’t care. Those people are below him on the social hierarchy and thus they don’t matter.  

I agree, sort of. I don't think Josh feels bad for anyone while doing the deed. I don't think he feels bad for anyone after the fact. I do think he feels bad for Anna and the kids once his deeds become known. Not bad enough to never commit a crime again, but bad none the less.

[Zella]

I honestly don't think Anna, his kids, or his mother ever factor into his thinking. To me, he's frequently seemed to derive pleasure from embarrassing Anna. 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I do think he feels bad for Anna and the kids once his deeds become known. Not bad enough to never commit a crime again, but bad none the less.

Id put this in the "anger at the consequences" part. The stain on his family/family name for what he has done is a consequence. 

 

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I honestly don't think Anna, his kids, or his mother ever factor into his thinking. To me, he's frequently seemed to derive pleasure from embarrassing Anna. 

I do think Josh has some typical affection for Michelle as his mother. (some but not a lot) So if he was concerned about hurting anyone it would be her. He has often said embarrassing and mean things about Anna ON CAMERA so I don't think he cares about her at all, outside of some basic gratitude for cleaning up after him and the status as a "married father" brought him in the community.

[GeeGolly]

37 minutes ago, Zella said:

I honestly don't think Anna, his kids, or his mother ever factor into his thinking. To me, he's frequently seemed to derive pleasure from embarrassing Anna. 

I agree, like with micro aggressions flexing his headshipness.

I certainly could be wrong, but somehow I have the impression with big shit like this and when past scandals were public, he felt bad for them.

[Cinnabon]

Any thoughts on why Boob didn’t write a sentencing letter for FF? 

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Any thoughts on why Boob didn’t write a sentencing letter for FF? 

Haha! I think even JB knew better than to do that after he made a fool of himself on the stand.

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Haha! I think even JB knew better than to do that after he made a fool of himself on the stand.

He sure spent a lot on Josh’s lawyers. As the headship of his huge family, I would’ve expected him to write something in support of his oldest son/child. According to him, his word should take precedence over the judge’s, right?

[Natalie68]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:59 AM, Churchhoney said:

That's the general rule. But there's a big list of offenses to which that doesn't apply, though. (of course, in typical big-bureaucracy fashion, you can't so easily find that list!!)

And child-related sex offenses, including pornography, are one category of offenses that are ineligible for the good-time credits. 

 

That is really good to hear.  

[cmr2014]

54 minutes ago, Zella said:

I honestly don't think Anna, his kids, or his mother ever factor into his thinking. To me, he's frequently seemed to derive pleasure from embarrassing Anna. 

To me, Josh has always seemed like the most Gothard-y of all of the spouses in the Duggar oribit. I've always thought that he thinks of Anna as his servant, sex toy, and the incubator of his mini-me's. 

To me, it's always seemed like he didn't think Anna was very bright, and certainly never thought she was "hot." 

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, cmr2014 said:

To me, Josh has always seemed like the most Gothard-y of all of the spouses in the Duggar oribit. I've always thought that he thinks of Anna as his servant, sex toy, and the incubator of his mini-me's. 

To me, it's always seemed like he didn't think Anna was very bright, and certainly never thought she was "hot." 

I agree. I think he probably thought she was pleasant and agreeable, which is what he wanted from a servant, sex toy and gestational carrier, but I don't think he particularly liked HER a lot. He just wanted to be married and the status that brought him in his community.

[SusanM]

On the subject of those letters - do they actually make any difference to the decision a judge makes with regard to sentencing?  A few years ago here in Canada there was a bit of controversy about whether victim impact statements were appropriate or not, I guess these kinds of letters are the other side of the coin.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

On the subject of those letters - do they actually make any difference to the decision a judge makes with regard to sentencing?  A few years ago here in Canada there was a bit of controversy about whether victim impact statements were appropriate or not, I guess these kinds of letters are the other side of the coin.

I'm guessing in less egregious crimes they might tip the coin if the judge was down the middle. But I don't see how they can help in cases of CSA.

[Cinnabon]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing in less egregious crimes they might tip the coin if the judge was down the middle. But I don't see how they can help in cases of CSA.

In this case, it seems like Anna’s letter, in particular would push the judge toward a longer sentence, because Anna seems oblivious to the incredible depravity of the CP Josh was interested in, and she has 7 very young kids at home she should want to protect. 

[quarks]

I think it's possible that in certain cases, letters might help - if they convince the judge that the convict is unlikely to repeat the crime.  For example, someone convicted of a DUI might benefit from letters noting that the convict has agreed to enter a treatment program and will no longer have access to a car.  Something like that. 

I don't think these particular letters fall into that category. It's not just that the supposed charitable acts described range from either not being particularly charitable (sweeping up cracker crumbs) or eyebrow raising (what exactly is going on with that monthly payment to the widow), but I don't see anything in these letters that suggests that Josh won't reoffend. Instead, I see plenty of evidence that his wife, at least some of his in-laws and the two Burgesses will continue to allow him to have full access to computers. Indeed, the Burgesses sound ready and able to provide him with a top of the line laptop, in their names, the second he leaves prison - and have the money to do so.

So I don't think the judge will be swayed by these letters. I could of course be wrong.

[Absolom]

6 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Most states have work exemptions for domiciliary parents with children under 5, or at least they did when I worked in social services many moons ago.

If Mr. Google is to be believed the current requirement for a parent with a child under 6 is 20 hours a week.  

Anna would be able to do some part-time job at a school or mornings only if she put the older kids in school and could get free childcare for the under fives.  Otherwise it probably wouldn't help her.  

[Future Cat Lady]

I haven't read all the letters, but it seems like none of them really adress his crimes or alleged that Josh has remorse. Could it be because they want to appeal?

They can't say he did it and then try to convice the court to have another trial?

[GeeGolly]

There's a scary tipping for folks receiving services depending on the state they live in. Some states have a limit on TANF ($), say two years and then done. Others don't. In the states that don't, what sometimes happens is once the parent starts working more, they start to lose services. Then they get a full time job and have to pay for day care, receive no financial aid and have their SNAP reduced. If they're lucky they have Section 8 that remains in place. What can often happen is the parent can no longer make ends meet and the cycle begins again (if their state allows it too).

Going from a married unskilled mom to an single unskilled mom, even with services, is not always easy and sometimes sets them up to fail.

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

There's a scary tipping for folks receiving services depending on the state they live in. Some states have a limit on TANF ($), say two years and then done. Others don't. In the states that don't, what sometimes happens is once the parent starts working more, they start to lose services. Then they get a full time job and have to pay for day care, receive no financial aid and have their SNAP reduced. If they're lucky they have Section 8 that remains in place. What can often happen is the parent can no longer make ends meet and the cycle begins again (if their state allows it too).

Going from a married unskilled mom to an single unskilled mom, even with services, is not always easy and sometimes sets them up to fail.

Not to mention losing healthcare coverage. Daycare without the subsidies often costs more than $1300 a month. Ditto for health insurance. Our social safety net helps very few and sets them up to fail with these kinds of limitations. 

This situation       should serve as a learning experience for Anna’s daughters, showing them what can happen when women don’t have any education or skills and depend completely on men to support them, but it likely won’t. 🥲
 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Cinnabon

[hathorlive]

31 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I haven't read all the letters, but it seems like none of them really adress his crimes or alleged that Josh has remorse. Could it be because they want to appeal?

They can't say he did it and then try to convice the court to have another trial?

Really, what could any letter say to address the victims? That Josh has never hurt a child before? Scratch that.  That he would never do any thing to another victim again? Been there, done that.  They can't acknowledge the victims because it shows a repeat pattern that he can't and won't be able to stop in the future.

[Miss Fabulous]

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Any thoughts on why Boob didn’t write a sentencing letter for FF? 

i reckon he told SmugAnna and Bitchelle what to write.

[Tdoc72]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'll write you a letter G90.

 

Dear Sir Judge ⚖️,

My sweet friend G90 is very diligent in writing on the boards. She has a heart to find facts for others and is quick to post the perfect photo for almost any discussion. We will miss her greatly during her sentence and have banned together with purpose of supporting her when she returns.

Sincerely, GG🧡

(came back to add, this does describe G90 and she is awesome)

I feel like the judge will only give leniency if you include her cracker crumb cleaning status. 

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

I feel like the judge will only give leniency if you include her cracker crumb cleaning status. 

Oh, oh P.S. Sir Judge, G90 ain't nobody's bitch and lets folks clean up their own messes, but she can follow the tiniest trail of bread crumbs to dig up dirt on the Duggars. 👏🏽

[galaxygirl76]

On 5/15/2022 at 8:27 PM, SmallTownMom said:

Does anybody else remember an episode where Josh and Anna had friends over for dinner (I think they were in DC then).  Josh wanted something from the fridge, so a pregnant Anna CRAWLED under the table to get it for him!  Many other times, we saw Anna pushing a stroller and carrying things while Josh just strolled along in front of her.

But at least she has a husband.

He did this with the camera crew there, I can't imagine how he treated her when they weren't there.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

He did this with the camera crew there, I can't imagine how he treated her when they weren't there.

He likes to degrade women. He gets off on it. That is why what he was viewing was the worst of the worst. He is a sick person who should never be around children. 

[DeeReynolds]

Cousin Amy penned an open letter to Anna.

 https://people.com/tv/amy-duggar-tells-anna-duggar-no-shame-to-divorce-josh-duggar-amid-child-pornography-trial/

[awaken]

1 hour ago, DeeReynolds said:

Cousin Amy penned an open letter to Anna.

 https://people.com/tv/amy-duggar-tells-anna-duggar-no-shame-to-divorce-josh-duggar-amid-child-pornography-trial/

It was picked up by Newsweek as well. 

[ginger90]

Any opinions on if Josh will speak to the court at his sentencing?

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Any opinions on if Josh will speak to the court at his sentencing?

Oh wow, I never even thought about this. I suppose if he's going to appeal he can't show remorse (if he has any). He may go rogue and go on an innocent Godly rant.