Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[RazzleberryPie]

Adoption isn't always 'fair' or 'just' in regards to the most deserving (how do you even quantify that) couple, or who waited the longest, or who wants it the most. 

 

 

Just due to their fame as Good Christian People, they could probably very easily arrange a private adoption and not bother with reputable, accredited agencies or the state/foster system . They've never cared about any sort of fairness or accreditation with anything else in their lives, so why start with adoption.

 

 

 

BTW - sometimes you CAN adopt while pregnant - i personally know one couple who was in the process of adopting a baby girl from China - it was a two year process for them, and she found out she was pregnant right before their trip to pick up the baby in china. Only one parent was required to go, so the husband and grandmother went. Other couple, domestic adoption of a sibling group (three kids). They fostered and were about to sign the paperwork to finalize it all, then BAM, pregnant. Still adopted the three kids.

[queenanne]

I've been watching the Duggars since the early days and Jessa has never been warm and loving towards children. Not with her siblings, not on the mission trips and not towards her nieces and nephews. I remember when Anna and the Mkids flew in for Jessa's wedding. Mikey ran up to her and wrapped his arms around her legs and Jessa just stood there. She didn't return the hug or pick him up or even pat him on the head. I think Jessa's personality is ill-suited to adoption.

 

That's funny and poignant.

 

That said, my sibling is considerably younger and I loathed the thought of babies until my mid-twenties, finding no appealing cuteness and just a parental attention-competitor.  Now I'm baby crazy.  Jessa does seem to dote upon Spurgeon in an authentic manner, and may have felt differently about her own child.

[NikSac]

Honestly, their best bet for adopting is to go foster care route.

I doubt they'd qualify for that either. I think their most likely adoption will come from some "oops" fundie teen and won't go through an agency at all.

[Obsidian]

I doubt they'd qualify for that either. I think their most likely adoption will come from some "oops" fundie teen and won't go through an agency at all.

 

TV gold. First the Duggars get a season out of the new baby - LOOK AT THIS FAB COUPLE, 26 S-KIDS OF THEIR OWN AND THEY STILL HAVE THE HEART FOR OTHER BABIES!!!!! - and then another season where they (and the rest of the Duggars) share the heartache of when they had to give the baby back to his or her mother because she was coerced into giving away her baby in an illegal adoption. Boob would even memorise the baby's name in order to strike the right tone in his talking heads.

 

Edited because I forgot this was about the Seewalds, not Boob and JChelle.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Obsidian

[Mollie]

BTW - sometimes you CAN adopt while pregnant - i personally know one couple who was in the process of adopting a baby girl from China - it was a two year process for them, and she found out she was pregnant right before their trip to pick up the baby in china. Only one parent was required to go, so the husband and grandmother went. Other couple, domestic adoption of a sibling group (three kids). They fostered and were about to sign the paperwork to finalize it all, then BAM, pregnant. Still adopted the three kids.

 

Jessa and Ben will not be allowed to adopt from China.  Both adopting parents must be at least 30-years-old and have assets of at least $80,000.  Plus, both parents must be high school graduates and Jessa has not passed the GED.

[flyingdi]

I though Jessa was the only Duggar with an actual high school diploma. Am I remembering that wrong?

[Mollie]

I though Jessa was the only Duggar with an actual high school diploma. Am I remembering that wrong?

All the kids were homeschooled and none of them has a high school diploma.  

 

Josh claims to have a GED.  Jill does for sure and so do Jinger and John David. Jessa never passed the test. They don't talk about the GED much because so few of the kids have one.

[SMama]

As the proud parent of a Chinese child I would like to add the parents must have medical insurance. This is not only required from China and US adoption agency, it is a Homeland Security requirement. Although we had provided the documentation with our dossier, we had to again provide employment verification letters and proof of medical insurance before our travel visas were issued.

And while I'm sure this family would gladly lie (seems to be the only consistent trait) there's that pesky requirement of promising to provide the child a good education. To the China Center of Adoption Affairs (CCAA) that means a college degree. Again, merely a matter of honoring a promise, but one my husband and I take seriously.

Edited March 15, 2016 by SMama

[Churchhoney]

I though Jessa was the only Duggar with an actual high school diploma. Am I remembering that wrong?

 

Well, I think they said something like that once, by reports. But I looked into Arkansas school laws at one point and, if by "actual high school diploma" we mean diploma awarded by the state, there's no way she could have one. Arkansas doesn't permit school districts to award those to homeschooled people, under any circumstances.

 

If she has something, it must mean that they paid for her to attend a private online school of some sort and she got a diploma from them or maybe they joined some cooperative homeschooling group that awards diplomas -- some groups award those simply on the parents' say so, for example, while others have some requirements you have to fulfill. She doesn't appear to have attended any school, private or public, outside of her home, so the options for her having a diploma are actually pretty limited. The "private online school" may be the most likely.

[Mollie]

As the proud parent of a Chinese child I would like to add the parents must have medical insurance. This is not only required from China and US adoption agency, it is a Homeland Security requirement. Although we had provided the documentation with our dossier, we had to again provide employment verification letters and proof of medical insurance before our travel visas were issued.

And while I'm sure this family would gladly lie (seems to be the only consistent trait) there's that pesky requirement of promising to provide the child a good education. To the China Center of Adoption Affairs (CCAA) that means a college degree. Again, merely a matter of honoring a promise, but one my husband and I take seriously.

You sound like wonderful adopting parents.  Thank you for sharing your story.  Jessa and Ben should never be allowed to adopt, in my opinion.  Jessa is turning out just like her mother: treating a baby as some kind of fashion accessory.  Plus, Jessa has stated that she wants to adopt because she wants more than 19 kids!  

[3girlsforus]

Well, I think they said something like that once, by reports. But I looked into Arkansas school laws at one point and, if by "actual high school diploma" we mean diploma awarded by the state, there's no way she could have one. Arkansas doesn't permit school districts to award those to homeschooled people, under any circumstances.

 

If she has something, it must mean that they paid for her to attend a private online school of some sort and she got a diploma from them or maybe they joined some cooperative homeschooling group that awards diplomas -- some groups award those simply on the parents' say so, for example, while others have some requirements you have to fulfill. She doesn't appear to have attended any school, private or public, outside of her home, so the options for her having a diploma are actually pretty limited. The "private online school" may be the most likely.

 

No that is not what a high school diploma means. A high school diploma means one bestowed on a student after they complete high school in concordance with state laws. Homeschool diplomas are perfectly legal. Whether the Duggars followed the laws of the state of Arkansas is a different issue but being homeschooled does not mean you don't have a real high school diploma.

[SMama]

Mollie, thank you for the compliment, but we are just parents, regular, average parents, lucky to be entrusted to raise an amazing child. A child that was malnourished and devoid of stimuli when we met. I became a SAHM to provide our child with consistency, a sense of security, and every possible opportunity to advance developmentally. Every child needs and deserves devotion and every opportunity to foster developmental and intellectual growth.

I have been lurking since TWoP days but finally delurked because the thought of these two morons adopting simply horrifies me. Maybe I'm hypersensitive because today my baby celebrates her ninth birthday. We are bursting with pride at how much she has overcome and accomplished. The thought of her or any other child being adopted by the likes of Ben and Jessa is repulsive. My daughter is a super hero loving, Lego super builder, princess hater, and would never get anywhere near a pink outfit. Ben and Jessa will only stunt a child's growth.

During our trip down our memory lane Ben and Jessa came to mind. All families are taken to a Buddhist temple to participate in a blessing. It was such a beautiful and meaningful ceremony. We are not Buddhists but appreciated every aspect of the blessing, because it is a part of our daughter's heritage. We also enjoyed every meal we had and did not thumb our noses at any food offered. I had a great laugh trying to picture Benessa in those situations.

Sorry to be so long winded, I have had ten years of pent up frustration regarding this family.

[Aja]

Mollie, thank you for the compliment, but we are just parents, regular, average parents, lucky to be entrusted to raise an amazing child. A child that was malnourished and devoid of stimuli when we met. I became a SAHM to provide our child with consistency, a sense of security, and every possible opportunity to advance developmentally. Every child needs and deserves devotion and every opportunity to foster developmental and intellectual growth.

I have been lurking since TWoP days but finally delurked because the thought of these two morons adopting simply horrifies me. Maybe I'm hypersensitive because today my baby celebrates her ninth birthday. We are bursting with pride at how much she has overcome and accomplished. The thought of her or any other child being adopted by the likes of Ben and Jessa is repulsive. My daughter is a super hero loving, Lego super builder, princess hater, and would never get anywhere near a pink outfit. Ben and Jessa will only stunt a child's growth.

During our trip down our memory lane Ben and Jessa came to mind. All families are taken to a Buddhist temple to participate in a blessing. It was such a beautiful and meaningful ceremony. We are not Buddhists but appreciated every aspect of the blessing, because it is a part of our daughter's heritage. We also enjoyed every meal we had and did not thumb our noses at any food offered. I had a great laugh trying to picture Benessa in those situations.

Sorry to be so long winded, I have had ten years of pent up frustration regarding this family.

First: Happy birthday, SDaughter! She sounds delightful. Thank you so much for doing REAL good in the world, and adding to the light and love!

The thought of Benessa navigating an international adoption is at once harrowing and hilarious. I'm with those who think it would never happen. The paperwork alone would kill them. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Aja

[Mollie]

No that is not what a high school diploma means. A high school diploma means one bestowed on a student after they complete high school in concordance with state laws. Homeschool diplomas are perfectly legal. Whether the Duggars followed the laws of the state of Arkansas is a different issue but being homeschooled does not mean you don't have a real high school diploma.

You are incorrect.  The Duggar homeschooling does NOT qualify as a high school diploma in the state of Arkansas.

 

"Home Schools are not accredited by the Arkansas Department of Education. There are no grades, credits, transcripts or diploma provided by the Arkansas Department of Education, education service cooperative or by the local school district for students enrolled in home school."

 

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/laws/united_states/arkansas_home_school_laws/

[Barb23]

Mollie, thank you for the compliment, but we are just parents, regular, average parents, lucky to be entrusted to raise an amazing child. A child that was malnourished and devoid of stimuli when we met. I became a SAHM to provide our child with consistency, a sense of security, and every possible opportunity to advance developmentally. Every child needs and deserves devotion and every opportunity to foster developmental and intellectual growth.

I have been lurking since TWoP days but finally delurked because the thought of these two morons adopting simply horrifies me. Maybe I'm hypersensitive because today my baby celebrates her ninth birthday. We are bursting with pride at how much she has overcome and accomplished. The thought of her or any other child being adopted by the likes of Ben and Jessa is repulsive. My daughter is a super hero loving, Lego super builder, princess hater, and would never get anywhere near a pink outfit. Ben and Jessa will only stunt a child's growth.

During our trip down our memory lane Ben and Jessa came to mind. All families are taken to a Buddhist temple to participate in a blessing. It was such a beautiful and meaningful ceremony. We are not Buddhists but appreciated every aspect of the blessing, because it is a part of our daughter's heritage. We also enjoyed every meal we had and did not thumb our noses at any food offered. I had a great laugh trying to picture Benessa in those situations.

Sorry to be so long winded, I have had ten years of pent up frustration regarding this family.

Welcome & thank you for sharing. From what I've read or seen, most adoptive families keep some form of their child's heritage in their lives. Even on a rerun of the Little Couple this morning, Bill was showing the kids on a globe where they had flown to get them. I don't think Benessa would ever do anything in reference to their child's heritage besides "we are so lucky that Aunt Jill & Uncle Derick found you for us." Then I see that more in reverse. Jill acting like Mother Theresa that she found a child for them.

[Mollie]

Mollie, thank you for the compliment, but we are just parents, regular, average parents, lucky to be entrusted to raise an amazing child. A child that was malnourished and devoid of stimuli when we met. I became a SAHM to provide our child with consistency, a sense of security, and every possible opportunity to advance developmentally. Every child needs and deserves devotion and every opportunity to foster developmental and intellectual growth.

I have been lurking since TWoP days but finally delurked because the thought of these two morons adopting simply horrifies me. Maybe I'm hypersensitive because today my baby celebrates her ninth birthday. We are bursting with pride at how much she has overcome and accomplished. The thought of her or any other child being adopted by the likes of Ben and Jessa is repulsive. My daughter is a super hero loving, Lego super builder, princess hater, and would never get anywhere near a pink outfit. Ben and Jessa will only stunt a child's growth.

During our trip down our memory lane Ben and Jessa came to mind. All families are taken to a Buddhist temple to participate in a blessing. It was such a beautiful and meaningful ceremony. We are not Buddhists but appreciated every aspect of the blessing, because it is a part of our daughter's heritage. We also enjoyed every meal we had and did not thumb our noses at any food offered. I had a great laugh trying to picture Benessa in those situations.

Sorry to be so long winded, I have had ten years of pent up frustration regarding this family.

Congratulations and Happy Birthday to your daughter.

 

Now, imagine doing your kind of real parenting with 19 kids!

Welcome & thank you for sharing. From what I've read or seen, most adoptive families keep some form of their child's heritage in their lives. Even on a rerun of the Little Couple this morning, Bill was showing the kids on a globe where they had flown to get them. I don't think Benessa would ever do anything in reference to their child's heritage besides "we are so lucky that Aunt Jill & Uncle Derick found you for us." Then I see that more in reverse. Jill acting like Mother Theresa that she found a child for them.

Jessa/Ben and Jill/Derick don't meet the qualifications to adopt legally from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras, either!  

[Churchhoney]

No that is not what a high school diploma means. A high school diploma means one bestowed on a student after they complete high school in concordance with state laws. Homeschool diplomas are perfectly legal. Whether the Duggars followed the laws of the state of Arkansas is a different issue but being homeschooled does not mean you don't have a real high school diploma.

 

Yeah, I know that you have a real one -- just as you do in a private school. But under that definition, all or at least most of the Duggar kids have real diplomas -- real homeschool diplomas, because it seems to me they've had a graduation for pretty much each kid, haven't they? So, yes, she, like all??? (or at least most) of her 18-and-over siblings has a real diploma (homeschool variety)  granted under Arkansas law, just the way every kid who graduated from any Arkansas private school has a real diploma from that school.

 

In Arkansas, however, the homeschool diploma carries no requirements at all for course completion or hours of study or whatever and while homeschooled students take tests periodically, the tests are used for data purposes only and individual scores are never reported to or recorded by the state. So ... that's why I suspect that when people talk about Jessa being "the only one with a real high school diploma" they take that to mean not the Duggar homeschool diploma but a public-sector-awarded state diploma, which does have certain requirements. What I was trying to explain was that under Arkansas law Jessa can't have that kind of diploma (and to explain what other kinds she might have instead that would have requirements beyond Michelle's requirements.)

 

The confusing point is why they would have said that Jessa is the only one to have a high school diploma -- when it seems that they've pretty much had a graduation ceremony for every kid. What, exactly, would Jessa have done that the other Duggar kids wouldn't have done, to get that "only" designation? Why would they -- and how could they -- have educated her at home in a different way or to a different standard than all the other kids? If she's indeed the "only" holder of a certain kind of diploma, seems to me she had to get it from some source other than the Duggar homeschool (or beyond the Duggar homeschool, such as some kind of homeschool cooperative or something), but that source couldn't be the state itself.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Churchhoney

[3girlsforus]

You are incorrect.  The Duggar homeschooling does NOT qualify as a high school diploma in the state of Arkansas.

 

"Home Schools are not accredited by the Arkansas Department of Education. There are no grades, credits, transcripts or diploma provided by the Arkansas Department of Education, education service cooperative or by the local school district for students enrolled in home school."

 

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/laws/united_states/arkansas_home_school_laws/

 

That doesn't mean you didn't graduate from high school and don't have a legitimate diploma. You still can check the little box that says 'high school graduate' on whatever form, your diploma and transcript are still recognized by universities across the country. The question was whether Jessa is a high school graduate. IF (and yes this is a big if) JB/Michele followed the rules of the state for homeschooling and she completed a standard number of credits then yes - they could declare her graduated with a diploma. States don't provide accreditation for homeschoolers. That doesn't mean it isn't a diploma. 

[3girlsforus]

Yeah, I know that you have a real one -- just as you do in a private school. But under that definition, all or at least most of the Duggar kids have real diplomas -- real homeschool diplomas, because it seems to me they've had a graduation for pretty much each kid, haven't they? So, yes, she, like all??? (or at least most) of her 18-and-over siblings has a real diploma (homeschool variety)  granted under Arkansas law, just the way every kid who graduated from any Arkansas private school has a real diploma from that school.

 

In Arkansas, however, the homeschool diploma carries no requirements at all for course completion or hours of study or whatever and while homeschooled students take tests periodically, the tests are used for data purposes only and individual scores are never reported to or recorded by the state. So ... that's why I suspect that when people talk about Jessa being "the only one with a real high school diploma" they take that to mean not the Duggar homeschool diploma but a public-sector-awarded state diploma, which does have certain requirements. What I was trying to explain was that under Arkansas law Jessa can't have that kind of diploma (and to explain what other kinds she might have instead that would have requirements beyond Michelle's requirements.)

 

The confusing point is why they would have said that Jessa is the only one to have a high school diploma -- when it seems that they've pretty much had a graduation ceremony for every kid. What, exactly, would Jessa have done that the other Duggar kids wouldn't have done, to get that "only" designation? Why would they -- and how could they -- have educated her at home in a different way or to a different standard than all the other kids? If she's indeed the "only" holder of a certain kind of diploma, she had to get it from some source other than the Duggar homeschool (or beyond the Duggar homeschool, such as some kind of homeschool cooperative or something), but that source couldn't be the state itself.

 

I homeschool in Virginia so I'm most familiar with our laws here but when I first reported that I was going to homeschool I was required to declare myself as the teacher and report my level of education. I have a college degree so I only had to provide that. In VA it is legal to homeschool if you only have a high school diploma but you have to provide other documents. I can't remember what it is but maybe a transcript. Perhaps something like this happened here. Jessa was the primary schooler for quite a while, right? Maybe they went through the "trouble" of creating a transcript and following a standard course of study with her so she could be the homeschooler. It's just a guess. Otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to set Jessa apart. As a girl she definitely wouldn't have gotten more education just because. 

 

Of  course a lot of this is foreign to me, even though I homeschool, because I actually teach my kids and have high standards for their education. This idea of pretending to do school until you just declare them done is bat-shit crazy.

[Mollie]

That doesn't mean you didn't graduate from high school and don't have a legitimate diploma. You still can check the little box that says 'high school graduate' on whatever form, your diploma and transcript are still recognized by universities across the country. The question was whether Jessa is a high school graduate. IF (and yes this is a big if) JB/Michele followed the rules of the state for homeschooling and she completed a standard number of credits then yes - they could declare her graduated with a diploma. States don't provide accreditation for homeschoolers. That doesn't mean it isn't a diploma. 

You can print a diploma on your home computer, but that is not a recognized high school diploma.  Homeschoolers can take the GED test and, if they pass the exam, can use that as a substitute for a real high school diploma which they don't have.  You can only get a real high school diploma by attending an accredited high school in Arkansas.  And, there are no "standard number of credits" for homeschools, no set hours of schooling required, and no standardized tests of any kind.  It's one of the reasons most of the Duggar kids are seriously stupid and intellectually stunted.

I homeschool in Virginia so I'm most familiar with our laws here but when I first reported that I was going to homeschool I was required to declare myself as the teacher and report my level of education. I have a college degree so I only had to provide that. In VA it is legal to homeschool if you only have a high school diploma but you have to provide other documents. I can't remember what it is but maybe a transcript. Perhaps something like this happened here. Jessa was the primary schooler for quite a while, right? Maybe they went through the "trouble" of creating a transcript and following a standard course of study with her so she could be the homeschooler. It's just a guess. Otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to set Jessa apart. As a girl she definitely wouldn't have gotten more education just because. 

 

Of  course a lot of this is foreign to me, even though I homeschool, because I actually teach my kids and have high standards for their education. This idea of pretending to do school until you just declare them done is bat-shit crazy.

In Arkansas, only the parent of a child(ren) can legally homeschool the child(ren).  Jessa could help with homework, but the teacher has to be Jim Bob or Michelle and they have to certify to the state that one of them is the teacher.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Mollie

[Sew Sumi]

All they ever showed Jessa doing was checking test scores. I doubt she ever taught anyrhing beyond Wisdom Books for the littles. I think the Duggars may have come under some scrutiny with this (and bragging about it on TV), which is likely the reason they brought in Tabitha Paine. We don't know about her education beyond the DRT, but she must have some Gothard-approved Education/Teaching degree. Why her rather than a local Query girl? This is the only logical explanation I can come up with.

[Mollie]

All they ever showed Jessa doing was checking test scores. I doubt she ever taught anyrhing beyond Wisdom Books for the littles. I think the Duggars may have come under some scrutiny with this (and bragging about it on TV), which is likely the reason they brought in Tabitha Paine. We don't know about her education beyond the DRT, but she must have some Gothard-approved Education/Teaching degree. Why her rather than a local Query girl? This is the only logical explanation I can come up with.

Notice that they are careful to call Tabitha a "tutor" and not the teacher.  My guess is that she is totally educating the kids but, because of the law in Arkansas, Michelle has to officially be the teacher.

[sometimesy]

Jessa leaves and they bring in a tutor..hmm. I also wonder if Jessa bought the flashcards for $2.50 and gave the kids their portable math curriculum for grades 1-8.

[Sew Sumi]

Notice that they are careful to call Tabitha a "tutor" and not the teacher. My guess is that she is totally educating the kids but, because of the law in Arkansas, Michelle has to officially be the teacher.

Agree 100%. Words matter.

[duggarshow]

All the kids were homeschooled and none of them has a high school diploma.  

 

Josh claims to have a GED.  Jill does for sure and so do Jinger and John David. Jessa never passed the test. They don't talk about the GED much because so few of the kids have one.

 

That's not accurate. All the Duggar adult children have taken and passed the GED and the Duggar family has done and continues to do standardized testing for their children.

 

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/292761.page

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/homeschooling-milestones/

[Mollie]

That's not accurate. All the Duggar adult children have taken and passed the GED and the Duggar family has done and continues to do standardized testing for their children.

No, all of the Duggar kids have not passed the GED.  Michelle always posts on her blog when one of them does, and Jessa never passed the test.

 

As for standardized testing, Arkansas discontinued that over a year ago.  There are no standardized tests anymore.  Even when they had them, the kids weren't required to pass the tests and they were just for the state's statistical records.  The tests served no purpose.  Also, homeschooling is now required until age 17, not 16.  It used to be 16, but not now.  

[Churchhoney]

I homeschool in Virginia so I'm most familiar with our laws here but when I first reported that I was going to homeschool I was required to declare myself as the teacher and report my level of education. I have a college degree so I only had to provide that. In VA it is legal to homeschool if you only have a high school diploma but you have to provide other documents. I can't remember what it is but maybe a transcript. Perhaps something like this happened here. Jessa was the primary schooler for quite a while, right? Maybe they went through the "trouble" of creating a transcript and following a standard course of study with her so she could be the homeschooler. It's just a guess. Otherwise it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to set Jessa apart. As a girl she definitely wouldn't have gotten more education just because. 

 

Of  course a lot of this is foreign to me, even though I homeschool, because I actually teach my kids and have high standards for their education. This idea of pretending to do school until you just declare them done is bat-shit crazy.

 

Well, the thing is that Arkansas has an extremely loose homeschool law, with no course requirements, no records, no transcripts, no qualifications for the parent (or parent-appointed teacher), etc. You do have to attest to the kids' being in school through age 17, and you're supposed to describe the qualifications of whoever is the teacher -- although there are no requirements for what those qualifications must be. And the state has wanted periodic achievement tests -- but for data only, and the state has not collected the data for individual students, only in the aggregate.

 

So in Arkansas, the only way they could have done the kind of thing you're talking about is to hook up with some other school or group, such as a private online school or a homeschoolers coop or something. The state doesn't accept transcripts or the like from homeschoolers. Unlike in some other states, there's no such thing as being a qualified or an unqualified homeschooler and no such thing as submitting your homeschool record anywhere for any kind of qualification. They would have had to hook up with another group or school of some kind. And maybe they did do that, for the reason you state. As you say, Jessa's being a girl would certainly argue to them that they shouldn't do it!

Notice that they are careful to call Tabitha a "tutor" and not the teacher.  My guess is that she is totally educating the kids but, because of the law in Arkansas, Michelle has to officially be the teacher.

 

That's actually no longer true either. In 2007 they passed a law that changed the rule. Home schools previously had to be "conducted" by parents, but beginning in 2007, they could be only "provided" by parents or guardians. So parents became free to hire whatever teachers they wanted and no longer have to do it themselves. (In many cases, though, including this one, this change may well be an improvement. I can't imagine anyone worse as a teacher than totally out-of-it do-not-care Michelle.)

 

Here's the law -- http://www.arkansased.gov/public/userfiles/Learning_Services/Charter%20and%20Home%20School/Home%20School-Division%20of%20Learning%20Services/Home%20School-%20act_824_2007.pdf

Edited March 15, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

That's not accurate. All the Duggar adult children have taken and passed the GED and the Duggar family has done and continues to do standardized testing for their children.

 

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/292761.page

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/homeschooling-milestones/

 

They had them do those annual tests because the state required them as a means of collecting data on their home school population. The idea of crappy Michelle pretending that this was some initiative of their own to check up on anybody's learning is just more Duggar lies. And even though the state required them, the state never recorded the scores for individual students (or not within recent memory, anyway -- don't know how long that was in home schooling law). Parents were given the kids' individual scores so they could see the kids' progress or lack of it and revise their methods accordingly (although state offices did not receive those scores). But it's pretty obvious from some of the math work we've observed with the various howlers that these particular parents didn't really give a fig about whether the kids were up to snuff or not.

[Missy Vixen]

Adoption vs. pregnancy = is $$$ best spent going on legal services while keeping what's left of Jessa's pre-baby figure, or saving $$$, asserting Bin's manhood, and risking her not looking so cute anymore. 

 

I'm going straight to Hell for this one.

 

One has to imagine that Jessa Blessa was not happy when her sylphlike figure did not reappear the second Spurgeon made his grand entrance. One can further imagine that she is not happy dealing with stretch marks, additional weight, and the fact she's never going to look like she did on their wedding night again.

 

I'm also going to shimmy out on a limb and guess that Bin is none too pleased about the changes in his wife's body as well, but is most likely coping with his anxiety re: his wife's post-baby body by devising a workout and dieting regime that would make Ronda Rousey faint.

[NewDigs]

I dunno.

I still think that Bin only has eyes for that guy with the screwdriver and the power box. And a cellphone.

David.

[Gweilo]

From what I've read or seen, most adoptive families keep some form of their child's heritage in their lives. Even on a rerun of the Little Couple this morning, Bill was showing the kids on a globe where they had flown to get them. I don't think Benessa would ever do anything in reference to their child's heritage besides "we are so lucky that Aunt Jill & Uncle Derick found you for us."

Ben and Jessa probably don't know that the earth is round.

[GeeGolly]

Yeah, I know that you have a real one -- just as you do in a private school. But under that definition, all or at least most of the Duggar kids have real diplomas -- real homeschool diplomas, because it seems to me they've had a graduation for pretty much each kid, haven't they? So, yes, she, like all??? (or at least most) of her 18-and-over siblings has a real diploma (homeschool variety)  granted under Arkansas law, just the way every kid who graduated from any Arkansas private school has a real diploma from that school.

 

In Arkansas, however, the homeschool diploma carries no requirements at all for course completion or hours of study or whatever and while homeschooled students take tests periodically, the tests are used for data purposes only and individual scores are never reported to or recorded by the state. So ... that's why I suspect that when people talk about Jessa being "the only one with a real high school diploma" they take that to mean not the Duggar homeschool diploma but a public-sector-awarded state diploma, which does have certain requirements. What I was trying to explain was that under Arkansas law Jessa can't have that kind of diploma (and to explain what other kinds she might have instead that would have requirements beyond Michelle's requirements.)

 

The confusing point is why they would have said that Jessa is the only one to have a high school diploma -- when it seems that they've pretty much had a graduation ceremony for every kid. What, exactly, would Jessa have done that the other Duggar kids wouldn't have done, to get that "only" designation? Why would they -- and how could they -- have educated her at home in a different way or to a different standard than all the other kids? If she's indeed the "only" holder of a certain kind of diploma, seems to me she had to get it from some source other than the Duggar homeschool (or beyond the Duggar homeschool, such as some kind of homeschool cooperative or something), but that source couldn't be the state itself.

For what it's worth. Who knows if this is still true.

 

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/homeschooling-milestones/

 

Part of the statement:

 

"Later when they're finished with their high school education, I'll have them take the GED test. It's not required in our state, but I like them to do it because it's good for them to have that certificate. That's their equivalent of finishing their high school education. Some of them will finish it at 16 years old, but everyone is different. We'll always celebrate that achievement with our own special graduation ceremony."

 

ETA; just noticed this was already posted. Oops.

Edited March 16, 2016 by GeeGolly

[BitterApple]

Ben and Jessa probably don't know that the earth is round.

Lol, Jessa would probably look for India and China in South America.

[Mollie]

Ben and Jessa probably don't know that the earth is round.

It's the same with Derick and Jill.  Derick thought Central America was "overseas."

[awaken]

Derick and Jill have said a few times that they will choose one for Jessa; themselves, they went to CA with one kid, and have said they might come home with a couple few more. Remember Derick holding up his fingers for us to count?

 

Wow.  Did they really say that?  I remember the 4 fingers picture, but not him actually making comments about bringing kids back to hand out to all and sundry!  

[riverblue22]

I wonder if it ever bothers Jessa that her husband for eternity is an inarticulate dolt?

[Minivanessa]

For what it's worth. Who knows if this is still true.

 

http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/homeschooling-milestones/

 

Part of the statement:

 

"Later when they're finished with their high school education, I'll have them take the GED test. It's not required in our state, but I like them to do it because it's good for them to have that certificate. That's their equivalent of finishing their high school education. Some of them will finish it at 16 years old, but everyone is different. We'll always celebrate that achievement with our own special graduation ceremony."

 

ETA; just noticed this was already posted. Oops.

 

 Taking my response over to the Duggars and Their World discussion.

[sometimesy]

I wonder if it ever bothers Jessa that her husband for eternity is an inarticulate dolt?

Probably not. Some women search for men just like dad.

[MargeGunderson]

I wonder if it ever bothers Jessa that her husband for eternity is an inarticulate dolt?

 

If I were woman with a strong personality in that world, I just might prefer a less than bright husband. That might be the best opportunity to have a little autonomy and power in an environment where women are ruled by a male headship, no matter how dumb he might be. The dumber the easier to manipulate. I don't like a lot of Jessa's personality traits, but I give her credit for having a real personality and trying to assert some control over her life. In some ways I feel sorry for her - I think she would have liked a different life

Edited March 16, 2016 by MargeGunderson

[Catlyn]

After reading what Ben plans to be, it sounds like a ten year old explaining what he wants to be when he grows up, "I want to be a preacher, an actor, a rapstar, a fireman and an astronaut!" Not a married man with a wife and child to support.  Proof he is not mature enough. Mature teenagers usually have some realistic plans along with their dreams. Going to a school for dramatic arts, or some sort of seminary. They listen to rap and practice and practically live for it in order to get the pace and rhythm right. They have a plan even if to adults it's some vague idea. Ben should be past the vague idea stage. 

[Mollie]

After reading what Ben plans to be, it sounds like a ten year old explaining what he wants to be when he grows up, "I want to be a preacher, an actor, a rapstar, a fireman and an astronaut!" Not a married man with a wife and child to support.  Proof he is not mature enough. Mature teenagers usually have some realistic plans along with their dreams. Going to a school for dramatic arts, or some sort of seminary. They listen to rap and practice and practically live for it in order to get the pace and rhythm right. They have a plan even if to adults it's some vague idea. Ben should be past the vague idea stage. 

Ben as a rap star?  He's so full of himself.  (And I thought it was only Derick who was smoking something!)

[Aja]

 Ben should be past the vague idea stage. 

With a wife and a baby, hell yes he should be. That's such a great analysis. He has a worldview as realistic as an eight year-old's.

 

 

Ben as a rap star?  He's so full of himself.  (And I thought it was only Derick who was smoking something!)

Either Ben is a raging pothead or he has severe, severe allergies combined with severe, severe stupidity.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Aja

[Tabbygirl521]

When he was yapping about how it has been "good for me" to become a dad - yikes! Is he even 20 years old yet?? And it's not as if he is actually supporting his family - I think. Maybe he and Jessa both are via TLC. But that can't go on forever.

So he, like Josh, takes care of diaper changes. I wonder if that is a "thing" in their cult. Either way, Ben looked really not thrilled at having this revealed to the cameras. Toilet stuff is apparently his whole life. All because he developed a crush on a girl with a TV show. Golly.

[toodles]

 

 

Either Ben is a raging pothead or he has severe, severe allergies combined with severe, severe stupidity.

Put me down in the severely stupid column.

[GeeGolly]

When he was yapping about how it has been "good for me" to become a dad - yikes! Is he even 20 years old yet?? And it's not as if he is actually supporting his family - I think. Maybe he and Jessa both are via TLC. But that can't go on forever.

So he, like Josh, takes care of diaper changes. I wonder if that is a "thing" in their cult. Either way, Ben looked really not thrilled at having this revealed to the cameras. Toilet stuff is apparently his whole life. All because he developed a crush on a girl with a TV show. Golly.

Ben is basically quoting his dad, who said something like - I got married and had kids young, it forced me to grow up.

Misery loves company?

 

It is a thing with the Duggar crew - the dads do the diapers.

[Albanyguy]

It is a thing with the Duggar crew - the dads do the diapers.

I think it's another of their FU Internet gestures, designed to answer critics who call out the men in the family for being selfish and entitled: "Look at us! We're such modern, involved daddies! We even change those disgusting poopy diapers!" Awwww! It's enough to almost make you forget Josh taking a nap while his wife gave birth on the toilet or JD asserting that the wimmenfolk LIKE to do laundry.

And I'd be really surprised if Josh, Derick or Ben ever changed a diaper if someone wasn't right there with a camera to take a picture of them doing it.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Albanyguy

[Tabbygirl521]

I think it's another of their FU Internet gestures, designed to answer critics who call out the men in the family for being selfish and entitled: "Look at us! We're such modern, involved daddies! We even change those disgusting poopy diapers!" Awwww! It's enough to almost make you forget Josh taking a nap while his wife gave birth on the toilet or JD asserting that the wimmenfolk LIKE to do laundry.

And all it says to me is, Daddy doesn't have a job so he is always around to change my diapers. I know that's not fair because the deal probably is that Daddy has diaper duty when he is home.

[CofCinci]

I wonder if it ever bothers Jessa that her husband for eternity is an inarticulate dolt?

I'm sure she has other bothers that weigh heavily on her mind.

[becca3891]

I dunno.

I still think that Bin only has eyes for that guy with the screwdriver and the power box. And a cellphone.

David.

Ha. Funny, but I doubt it. I think he fell in lust with Jessa the first time he saw the show, and crafted a plan to get to her. And it worked.

 

I think it's another of their FU Internet gestures, designed to answer critics who call out the men in the family for being selfish and entitled: "Look at us! We're such modern, involved daddies! We even change those disgusting poopy diapers!" Awwww! It's enough to almost make you forget Josh taking a nap while his wife gave birth on the toilet or JD asserting that the wimmenfolk LIKE to do laundry.

Yes, exactly. It's meant to appease everyone who's noticed the imbalanced gender roles. Anyone who has changed diapers, though, knows that it's not fun but also isn't the most time-consuming part of parenting by any stretch. It's very quick once you get the hang of it.

[Muffyn]

I don’t see the diaper thing as showing that the menfolk help raise the children.  Gothard is so backward thinking I cannot imagine he would want to promote that.  I would liken it more to keeping women away from the ever-so-scary genitals. They could be scarred by seeing the genitals of an infant.  They should barely know anything about their own body other than the ability to pop out blessings.  Only menfolk can be trusted to wipe aa baby’s ass.