S03.E17: The Jolly Roger

[formerlyfreedom]

Ariel returns to Storybrooke and pleads with Hook to help her find Prince Eric, who never returned to the town when the new curse was invoked. Emma agrees to let Regina teach her how to use magic so that she can help defeat Zelena, and Mary Margaret and David try to prove that they can be just as much fun as Hook is with Henry -- who thinks they are boring. Meanwhile, in Fairy Tale Land during the past year, an angry Ariel confronts Hook over her missing Prince Eric, who she assumes was kidnapped and possibly killed by the swarthy pirate. But when Hook confesses that the Jolly Roger has been stolen and Eric is most likely the thief’s prisoner, Ariel unknowingly provides him with a clue as to who the culprit is, and Hook – with Ariel in tow - goes off in search of his ship.

 

[Jenniferbug]

I really have a hard time watching scenes with Zelena talking to people, because she stands too damn close to them! I know it's a small thing, but it really annoys me that all these characters are letting her stand 2 inches from their face. 

Can someone fill me in? How did Hook lose his ship to Blackbeard? I'm confused as to where it was when the curse that took them back to Fairy Tale Land hit. Of course we still don't know where it is now either. 

Regina and Emma were boring this week. Their magical training needs to get more exciting if they're going to take down the witch. Though so far I've been pretty unimpressed with her, so I don't know why one of them can't take her down. She only seems a decent villain because she has Rumple in her pocket and isn't missing that year of knowledge the others are. 

[Last Time Lord]

I realized Ariel was Zelena moments before the reveal. I was actually thrown by that twist.

[Worsel]

Gotta give Lana credit for great acting - Regina's look of disgust while watching Ariel's reunion with Erik was the most amusing part of the episode for me.  Overall a solid episode with good acting on Colin's part, although I did find the Regina/Emma scenes less interesting than I had hoped.  Alas Blackbeard's story arc was woefully short, I was hoping for more than one scene, or at least the possibility of future pirate vs pirate encounters.

[Melgaypet]

That was a fun hour, if a bit wheel-spinning. Still, I think I may have to give up and become a damn shipper. Poor lovesick Hook. But if he doesn't come clean about this soon, then we're going to have words. Bad form, sir!

[Camera One]

I'm just repeating my post from TWOP

--------------------------

The episode was alright, but dragged a little.

It's been seven episodes... time to pull out the body snatcher "twist" again.  Sheesh.  I'm just relieved they didn't ruin Ariel's ever after.  Does the spell finder device still work if the person is dead?  I figured the cloak going under the sea meant Eric could still be alive in another realm, or maybe Under the Sea.

I think this episode confirmed that Snow feels no ill will towards Hook, with Ariel's "Will he help me?" and Snow's "I don't see why not.  He helped us find Henry." 

I am glad Regina is getting reformed but that happy family dinner at the end was a little too much.

I resent that they put Charming and Snow into the Tired Sitcom Subplot of the Episode.  I expected (and wanted) Charming and Snow to show Henry how to sword fight and do archery.  Make up some dumb lie like they're the Presidents of Storybrooke's Medieval Festival Club or something. Driving a car was lame. It has nothing to do with who they are.  So Hook gets a heart-to-heart with Henry last episode, and Snow and Charming get lines that some of the Dwarves could have delivered.

I did feel for Hook a little near the end, but what was with man-handling Ariel after she revealed who she was, and herself acknowledged that Hook didn't kidnap Eric.  Did he not consider keeping Blackbeard captive until he told where Eric was?  Did Blackbeard sail Eric to the island himself and none of his crew knew?  There were more holes than a New York Bagel. 

I don't think I can roll my eyes any further at the Kiss-of-Magic-Draino that Zelena put on Hook's lips. It's just so contrived that now Emma is so open to love because he helped Ariel find Eric.  Ahh, these anvils that always fall between true loves.

[ItalianAngel73]

One thing I didn't understand was why didn't Hook just tell Regina and Emma what was going on (that Ariel was really Zelena and she (Zelena) placed a  kiss-Emma-and-her-powers-will-vanish curse) on Hook? Maybe Regina could have come up with a counter spell. I know Hook was faced with a terrible choice: Kiss Emma/she'll lose her powers or everyone she loves will die, but Emma (and Regina and even The Charmings) should have known what was going on.

Edited April 14, 2014 by ItalianAngel73

[Mari]

One thing I didn't understand was why didn't Hook just tell Regina and Emma what was going on (that Ariel was really Zelena and she (Zelena) placed a  kiss-Emma-and-her-powers-will-vanish curse) on Hook? Maybe Regina could have come up with a counter spell. I know Hook was faced with a terrible choice: Kiss Emma/she'll lose her powers or everyone she loves will die, but Emma (and Regina and even The Charmings) should have known what was going on.

I think that's why he was at the Charmings--he went to discuss it with David and/or Mary Margaret.  Telling Emma and Regina is more difficult, because it means discussing not only his feelings with them (despite Emma's ongoing rejections and Regina's less-than-kind take on things), but why Zelena was able to cast the curse. Now that he didn't say something right away, it'll be harder to open up about it.

 

Can someone fill me in? How did Hook lose his ship to Blackbeard? I'm confused as to where it was when the curse that took them back to Fairy Tale Land hit. Of course we still don't know where it is now either. 

 

It seems like Blackbeard just found it when their things were transported back to the Enchanted Forest.  Since the Jolly Roger was supposedly made of enchanted wood, it would be a step up for most pirates and Hook wasn't there to protect it; he'd landed elsewhere with the Storybrookers.  Blackbeard went "finders-keepers" and Hook had to find it and figure out how to get it back.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Mari

[lucindabelle]

kiss-of-draino! Very good.

Hook was a stand-up guy before he became a pirate, so I find the whole "loaded dice" thing bizarre.

[thuganomics85]

Hey, Charles Mesure from V was Black Beard!  Too bad he was kind of wasted in the role.

So, we got a bit of what Hook was up to during the mysterious year.  Not surprised he backslid at the end with Ariel, but at least he seem to realize he was dead wrong now.  Too bad he just happened to admit that in front of not Ariel, but freaking Zelena as Ariel.  Shit!  Nice twist!  As was the scenario she's now placed Hook in.  I will continue to love Zelena as a bad guy, as long as they continue to make her a little shit like Pan, and now try to "redeem" her or anything.

Charming trying to be Cool Grandpa was fun, but way, way reckless.  I mean, come on, Charming!  Someone really could have been hurt there. Didn't even put on seatbelts.  Even if I was to buy that, I really wouldn't buy that Snow didn't give him an earful, after that stunt.  Or Emma get both of them a talking to.

On the other hand, I 100% loved Regina getting her Yoda on, with teaching Emma how to use her magic.  Mentor Regina is going to be so much fun!

Edited April 14, 2014 by thuganomics85

[stealinghome]

Reposted from TWOP:

I thought this episode was better than the past two, but (as with all the episodes this season) it had some big flaws.

I'm disappointed in the Hook character for his backsliding in the fairyback. Returning to piracy is, well, okay, I can kind of handle that, but basically letting Eric die? Awful form. I was really hoping that the fairyback tonight would show Hook as reforming on his own, so that it would stop seeming like he is only being good now because of Emma. But while the fairyback indicated that he was maybe changing, my impression that he only "walks the walk" when he thinks it will get him points with Emma was sadly strengthened--he doesn't want to change. That said, I agree with whoever upthread said that his contrition was easily the most genuinely remorseful that we've ever seen him, which I appreciate (I just kind of want to see him have that contrition for all the other people he hurt). And so much for the idea that Hook was searching desperately all year to get back to Emma. Guess he's not "I will always find you" (yet).

The fairyback in general was kind of lame. Hook's "epic" fight with Blackbeard was anything but, and what a waste of a potentially interesting character. You could have cut one of the fairyback segments and not lost anything--it took up a lot of time and was about as subtle as a ton of bricks. I just don't find Hook that interesting, so it was hard to get into.

The Storybrooke stuff was more interesting, and the Ariel-was-Zelena twist was a good one that I didn't see coming until just before it happened, but I just.don't.care that Hook can't kiss Emma. I just can't see them as the epic lovers I think the show is going for. And I'm rolling my eyes that Hook didn't just tell the Charmings (you know, in the one safe place in all of Storybrooke). It's not a bad twist, but it requires Hook to be holding the idiot ball for a while (at least Snow no longer has it?). The whole thing simultaneously works and seems contrived.

Things I did like: Charming and Emma fighting with the cradle at the beginning of the episode (seriously the best part of the episode)! That was hilarious and sweet. I want more conversations like that between the Charmings, show. More "constructing cradles"/"washing dishes" conversations.

In another episode, I would have found Charming's determination to be the Cool Grandpa, well, charming, but it felt out of place in the episode, much as Regina/Robin's flirtation did a few episodes ago. These people should be on the highest of high alerts 24/7...not that I want more plot-plot-plot, but given what the mood of the town should be, it just felt out of place. I'm handwaving the idiocy of the teaching-Henry-to-drive as something that the show obviously doesn't take seriously, so I'm not going to bother. (Shallow alert though: Charming looked great tonight. Loved the clothing, loved the hair.) And I rolled my eyes that right after Regina warded the apartment to be the one safe place in Storybrooke, Snow was walking on the shore. C'mon, show, don't be so dumb. Have her and Charming hanging out in the loft when they get a call about Ariel.

Regina did make the best "oh shit, I killed the Savior" face when Emma fell down into the canyon (and her "You did what?" was funny too), but I agree that we already knew that Emma can do magic in an emergency, so what, exactly, did Regina prove? I too prefer this version of Regina to last season's Woegina, but the Happy Families scene in the diner was still way too much.

All in all, better than the last two and about on par with 3x12-14, but the season still isn't clicking.

[shapeshifter]

I was annoyed that only NOW are they asking Hook about the missing year. Did they even bother to ask him about who the Wicked Witch was?

As far as him making Black Beard walk the plank instead of finding Ariel's prince, I blame Ariel. She didn't give him a chance to make his own decision so he could save face in front of his new crew.

Edited April 14, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Camera One]

It would have been hilarious if Ariel jumped off the ship as Blackbeard fell off the plank, turned into a mermaid in midair, held Blackbeard down in the water until he spilled the beans and then flipped her tail up at the Jolly Roger and sent Hook et al to Kingdom Come.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Camera One

[Rick Kitchen]

I got very confused during this episode, it was really hard to figure out which Hook/Ariel scenes were in the past and which were in the present.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You know what makes old uncool people so uncool? When they try too hard to be young and cool. Endangering your grandson's life and the lives of every pedestrian and car passenger in Storybrooke will be worth it because Henry will think David is cool! David never looked more pathetic in my eyes. He was like one of those 50 year old grandmothers wearing Forever 21 outfits on Jerry Springer.

Is Henry even old enough for a learner's permit? Because I'm pretty sure they didn't age him up to be 15. And what kind of an idiot decides that the first time a kid tries driving, the best place to do that is on the main drag through town? You go to a huge parking lot or a country road. You don't just drive down Main Street in the middle of the day! And you certainly don't teach a kid to drive without his mother's permission! I love that David's method of teaching Henry to drive wasn't much different than Regina's method of teaching Emma magic: sink or swim, suckers!

The whole "you can't kiss" thing reminded me of Ned the piemaker and Chuck with their saran wrap kisses on Pushing Daisies.

 

I really have a hard time watching scenes with Zelena talking to people, because she stands too damn close to them! I know it's a small thing, but it really annoys me that all these characters are letting her stand 2 inches from their face.

She is definitely a close talker. It makes me hope that she doesn't have bad breath. Heh, or maybe it's part of her evil plan. "Time to get in David's face. Let me eat a handful of raw garlic and some onions first!"

Edited April 14, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Mari]

She is definitely a close talker. It makes me hope that she doesn't have bad breath. Heh, or maybe it's part of her evil plan. "Time to get in David's face. Let me eat a handful of raw garlic and some onions first!"

Maybe it's part of her strategy?  Invoking the panicky/stressed reactions people get when you move into their space?  We could blame it for some of the stupid decisions made after conversations with Zelena.

[beadgirl]

 

One thing I didn't understand was why didn't Hook just tell Regina and Emma what was going on (that Ariel was really Zelena and she (Zelena) placed a  kiss-Emma-and-her-powers-will-vanish curse) on Hook? Maybe Regina could have come up with a counter spell. I know Hook was faced with a terrible choice: Kiss Emma/she'll lose her powers or everyone she loves will die, but Emma (and Regina and even The Charmings) should have known what was going on.

I know.  Especially since Emma has a right to know, given how it affects her either way.  But then we wouldn't be able to look forward to Hook angsting away in secret over the cruel, impossible decision he must make.

 

I'm disappointed in the Hook character for his backsliding in the fairyback. Returning to piracy is, well, okay, I can kind of handle that, but basically letting Eric die? Awful form.

I actually like it.  Well, from a storytelling point of view, not a moral point of view.  I've never really bought Hook's reform because it seemed too easy, more about his attraction to Emma* and general self-interest than any moral epiphany, so seeing that he's still capable of evil makes sense to me.  That said, as others have pointed out, his contrition seemed genuine, far more genuine than anything else so far.

*Not that that's not a good way to show him changing.  A person changing as a result of love and a desire to be worthy can certainly be a compelling story, but it has happened too quickly for me to see that yet with Hook.  Plus his smarmy (I mean that in a good way) charm and the way the story is told makes it harder to see what kind of interior change he is going through, although this episode did help.

Edited April 14, 2014 by beadgirl

[Mari]

I know.  Especially since Emma has a right to know, given how it affects her either way.  But then we wouldn't be able to look forward to Hook angsting away in secret over the cruel, impossible decision he must make.

I actually do sort of get this--telling David (Which is what I believe he was at the Charmings' house to do.) means Hook gets advice, and someone else gets to tell Emma.  Hook maybe doesn't have to spill the details.  It's win-win, or at least as win-win as this situation can be.

Telling Emma and Regina is a completely different kettle.  It means he has to get into what happened with Ariel and Eric, which Hook is clearly still ashamed of, and he has to discuss his (so far) one-sided love of Emma. Again.  On top of that, he has to do it in front of Regina, whose best skill might be the cutting remark.

Not telling Emma and Regina was probably panicked self-preservation, and then once he started it was too late.  He'd already committed to the mislead.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Mari

[Helena Dax]

I can't believe Emma saw some weird symbols and thought it could be Spanish. Wtf? Is that possible? I mean, is it normal in America to ignore than Spanish is written in latin alphabet?

Loved the episode, anyway, thanks to Hook, who's been my favourite character since the first time I saw him. I didn't see the Zelena twist coming and damn, that curse is trying to destroy my OTP. But I also think the curse means now they're end game and I couldn't be happier about that. 

Emma's training was cool, I want to know more about that. And seriously, considering she and Regina have powers, I don't understand why Hook isn't telling them. He only needs to say that Zelena tricked him and now his kisses are kryptonite for Emma.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I missed the first half of the episode, can someone kindly fill me in on who Hook was fighting with on his ship? The man that was dressed like the Disney cartoon Captain Hook? 

[BoPeeps]

Hmm, I wonder if Ariel was at all ashamed of whalloping  a man on the back of the head and holding a knife to his throat threatening to slit it? Just a passing thought. Ariel is popular in this series, but she doesn't get a pass from me just because she is a beloved Disney character. She has accountability as well.

I was pleasantly surprised by the way the writer(s) managed to out story-tell all the speculation surrounding the sneak peeks and BTS photos. Even with misdirection galore by media, etc., this was a very good Hook centric plot. Angst out the wazzoo. Character development And a pretty fabulous performance by Colin O'D. in an episode of self-loathing, smoldering anger and heart grief stretching over two realms and what, for him, has been a year...but actually centuries of struggle.

Several plot pin holes but that is the norm. (Didn't she have on Eric's cape when she dove into the water off the Jolly Roger to go find Eric?)

Emma managed to grow as well! There is hope for her losing her hard-arsed persona after all. Her cautious but necessary relationship with Regina is developing into an intriguing side plot. I like "Regina" more than the Evil Queen. but hope she never loses her delicious snark. And now she faces the daunting (and interesting) task of having to emotionally help Killian. Shoe is on the other foot. (or Hook on other hand? cough cough)

Glad she has decided to quit living in the past. Perfect set up for some serious coupling with her and Hook once they get around this green mouthed curse. I believe they are setting her up to be THE magic force of the season, impressing even Regina right out of the gates. I actually like the twist of her having to approach Hook now that she has become more accepting of her own heart...even though I think it is a fairly easy fix. Karma can bite. But fun. If is isn't drawn out beyond belief.

Speaking of fun...Blackbeard's demise! HA~ There is my gritty Hook swashbuckler as I hoped he would be. Echoes of the magnificent Errol Flynn and the shadow dueling behind the sail was a stroke of classic genius. The irony is that there was a famous sword fighting scene using shadow in Errol Flynn's ~Robin Hood classic. Perfect for the intimacy of the small screen. Short, to the point and...pirate-perfect. Die you dawg! LOL

And they couldn't have created a more perfect biatttch witch to absolutely hate. Even though her green glow and hats are really goofy.Makes Pan look like ...child's play.

[legaleagle53]

I missed the first half of the episode, can someone kindly fill me in on who Hook was fighting with on his ship? The man that was dressed like the Disney cartoon Captain Hook? 

It was Blackbeard.

[MMLEsq]

I missed the first half of the episode, can someone kindly fill me in on who Hook was fighting with on his ship? The man that was dressed like the Disney cartoon Captain Hook? 

Blackbeard -- he had appropriated for himself Hook's ship when Hook got transported back to the Enchanted Forest along with everyone else at the end of last season.

[Ariah]

The whole cursed kiss plot felt (for me) like taken straight out of a fanfic written by a teenager. (No offense to all teenagers writing fanfics).

I tried to find some logic in this riddiculous kiss'n'drain plot and finally reached the point where I think i know why Zelena did what she did ;) Well, at least I think I know.

It has been mentioned all over the 3B, that Zelena is not evil, but wicked. So: twisted and corrupt, and poisoned with vile. And this would be her motivation, as she herself told Hook: to corrupt the love between him and Emma. I think she wants the other to feel helpless and miserable - thus making Hook her proxy in distributing the curse.

Perhaps this curse is supposed to contord the idea of a True Love's Kiss? That's why Zelena needed Hook to admit sincerely who he loves. Only then was she able to put the curse on him.

And I guess she knows Emma and him are not an item. He admitted his heart is still broken. Zelena wantes to force him to kiss Emma against her will - it will hurt both Hook and Emma that way. (Sort of reminds me of that one scene in Spartacus: Gods of the Arena, when Gannicus was forced to have sex with the slave he was silently in love with - and it broke them both).

I hope Hook finds Charming alone and tell him everything, Together they can try to keep the secret from the girls... In vain, probably.

Other things I liked:
- Hook telling Zelena that she won't kill Emma (and she can stop pretending). Finally someone called her on her bluff.

- Regina's facial expressions, especially the "I think i just killed Emma" and "You let him drive a truck" faces.

- The fact that Ariel got her happy ending.

[BelovedMaeve]

I enjoyed this episode a surprising amount. I loved the scene with the Charmings and the cribs. Yes Show, I do like it when you slow down and let the family have actual moments together. I think it's a testament to the actors, because when they have these moments together, they are naturally family-like. JMo especially did such a good job in this. She comes off as slightly adolescent, but in a funny, cute way. What gets me, is then a later episode might spoil this with dialogue which doesn't seem to fit the "family-ness" they're exhibiting. The story doesn't always fit the interactions. I did think it was interesting that in Emma's first talk with Hook she kept making it all about Henry, so we can at lest assume that part of her is reluctant to leave Storybrooke. 

I thought Regina and Emma were hilarious together. I still resent Regina, on several levels, but if they stop trying to make me feel sorry for her all the time, I can accept her getting closer to the family, "Stockholm Syndrome Snow" (thank you MDKnight) and all. If they are laying groundwork for Emma to be one of the most powerful magic wielders in existence…that could be very interesting, and I would love to see Emma develop that more. And...for the love of G-d, some more backstory, please! All that power and it only started now? I don't buy it. If baby Zelena had magic, baby Emma should have had it too. How did it manifest, and is that one of the reasons she continued to be passed around in the foster system? (I know we've talked about it on TWoP but little blonde, blue-eyed girls with no disfigurements and disabilities are EXTREMELY wanted on the adoption market).

The driving thing was stupid but it also made me laugh. Sometimes parents (and grandparents) do stupid things for their kids to admire them. Regina's reactions and Snow and David's mumbled asides were funny. I'm just going to appreciate the funny.

[Sabs]

I don't buy it. If baby Zelena had magic, baby Emma should have had it too. How did it manifest, and is that one of the reasons she continued to be passed around in the foster system? (I know we've talked about it on TWoP but little blonde, blue-eyed girls with no disfigurements and disabilities are EXTREMELY wanted on the adoption market).

 

I thought about how Baby Emma should have had magic, but then I realized she was in a world without magic.  And even in this world, without magic, she still did magic in moments of high emotion (as evidenced in Henry's birth scene... watch the lights).  As for not being adopted?  She was "off the market" for the first 3 and a half years of her life, which is when most blond blue-eyed girls get adopted.  After age three, adoption rates go way down, and Emma was quite likely an angry little stinker if she kept getting sent back.  I've met three year old foster kids that I just couldn't handle.

[zmeliz]

Loved this episode, I'm glad Colin OD got to do some acting. He was also off the charts hot.

I'm glad they had him revert to pirate mode during the missing year, I was bored by the 'new and improved' Hook and I was worried the whole episode would be a Waaaalt search for Emma.

I still don't understand why can't he just tell the Charmings and Emma about the green lips curse. Can't he just not get into the specifics if he wants to avoid the Ariel or Emma love subjects? Lie about the details, man, not about the whole thing! The way I see it, the chioce is between WW killing Emma's family and WW taking Emma's powers and then being able to do wharever she likes (probably killing Emma's family + Emma). He helps the WW and then what?

[Faemonic]

I still don't understand why can't he just tell the Charmings and Emma about the green lips curse.

The way I figured it...

0. Contrivance angst, they couldn't end the episode with Hook saying, "Halp m curzed"; here's hoping that confession comes at the beginning of the next episode, but aside from that

1. The other Charmings and Henry were missing. What if Zelena was currently holding them hostage in case Hook tried to tell them or anyone?

2. Hook began to lie his ass off, maybe hoping that Emma would turn her superpower on what with magic training that day

3. What if Zelena was watching them from her magic mirror? Maybe the protection spell was only powerful enough to ensure that she doesn't go there, but isn't warded from scrying

4. Once everyone was in the safe space, Hook could not have privacy from Henry to talk about magic things

5. Zelena gave no deadline. Hook could pull his "in it for the long haul" and wait until Henry graduates from university to make his move, if Zelena so forced his hand

[BelovedMaeve]

 

I thought about how Baby Emma should have had magic, but then I realized she was in a world without magic.  And even in this world, without magic, she still did magic in moments of high emotion (as evidenced in Henry's birth scene... watch the lights).  As for not being adopted?  She was "off the market" for the first 3 and a half years of her life, which is when most blond blue-eyed girls get adopted.  After age three, adoption rates go way down, and Emma was quite likely an angry little stinker if she kept getting sent back.  I've met three year old foster kids that I just couldn't handle.

Replying in Emma's thread.

[Petunia846]

I really enjoyed this episode, but then I came here and saw all the problems with it. Oops. Oh well. I especially enjoyed all the Hook stuff and the bit with the crib at the beginning. The part with Regina teaching Emma magic was a bit lame.

[Gel]

I liked it. The script makes no sense, but the acting was awesome and overcame much of the script nonsense for me.

I was hanging with the Contrived Angst Anti-Kiss (nice one, Faemonic), until Zelena threatened to kill everyone Emma loves unless Hook drained Emma's powers. Huh? If Zelena could do that, why doesn't she just threaten Emma directly? And when exactly did Emma "break Hook's heart"? They were separated by the curse, yes, but her last word to him before the curse hit was, I thought, encouraging. Having to think takes me out of enjoying the quippy and the pretty, show. Kindly desist from doing that, thanks!

[BoPeeps]

It probably broke his heart that she was seriously contemplating marrying Walsh and admitted that she loved him. Frankly, I think she was lying through her teeth . I think that whole *what were you doing, you are lying*snark business in the woods sprang from her anger that Hook didn't *save* her sooner. She can be such a brick-brained fool.

The episodes always have plot pinholes, which I have learned to overlook. But didn't Ariel dive into the water with Eric's cloak on and yet it turned up in Gold's shop?

And there she is, by the way, in all her finless glory, slapping and biting into Hook about love and honor and decency a short time after she tried to beat his brains out with a bat, from behind, and threatened to slit his throat. These Disney Princesses are such violent little chits with no accountability. Tsk tsk.

Oh, and if Hook's lips are cursed to kill magic, is it only Emma's magic, or could he lip lock anyone and have their magic disappear? If so, he should have planted one on the bilious green biiiiiatch's sneering mouth that is always wayyyy too invasive of other people's personal space and have done with it. (he could have quickly washed his mouth out with rum) She is certainly set up as the ONE to despise. Of course that would have ruined the deliciously set up role reversal for Hook and Emma. And that is just too luscious to be missed.

Angst, holes and all, I  really enjoyed this episode, because of Swashbuckling, Snarky Regina, David's IKEA instruction impairment and Emma finally embracing the power within...but mostly because Colin O'D.'s emoting broke my heart. He was marvelous.

[Melgaypet]

Emma didn't break his heart, as in it's not her fault or anything she did, but I believe Hook was heartbroken at being separated from her. Besides, it was Zelena who used that phrasing, and I don't take anything Greenie McGabsALot says as gospel truth.

Speaking of, I don't get her spell, either, but maybe removing Emma's powers requires a "betrayal" by someone she trusts (loves?). Or maybe she's just fucking with Hook, I don't know. The rules of how magic works on this show have never been really well-defined. I doubt Zelena's plan is, either.

[DigitalCount]

The way I figured it...

2. Hook began to lie his ass off, maybe hoping that Emma would turn her superpower on what with magic training that day

I actually thought he was doing exactly this. Did he make a single true statement when he first appeared at the apartment?

[Alex]

I actually thought he was doing exactly this. Did he make a single true statement when he first appeared at the apartment?

Well, he didn't lie when he said Ariel had found Eric all alone.

Hook was (and is) heartbroken not because Emma did something, but because they were separated by the curse.

[daxx]

Angst, holes and all, I  really enjoyed this episode, because of Swashbuckling, Snarky Regina, David's IKEA instruction impairment and Emma finally embracing the power within...but mostly because Colin O'D.'s emoting broke my heart. He was marvelous.

Colin broke all our hearts for certain. I even told Adam so. lol

[Shanna Marie]

I think Hook was planning to tell David and/or Mary Margaret about the curse because he went to their house. If he'd just been planning to slink off and distance himself from Emma, he wouldn't have gone to Chez Charming. I don't think he was seeking out Emma because she's staying at Granny's, and I don't think this is a conversation he'd want to have with her in front of her parents. If he'd wanted to talk to her, he'd have lurked in the hallway at Granny's. So he didn't say anything yet because he was blindsided by Emma being there along with Regina. Regina is really the person he should talk to because she knows enough about magic to maybe look into this curse, and she has a vested interest in keeping Henry safe.

As for why Emma's superpower didn't spot that he was lying, I think he's generally established lying as a baseline, so it only works if he's really being sincere and wants her to know it. Most of the time, his lies are based on a foundation of truth and he sprinkles lies into his truths, so the needle on the psychic lie detector is always all over the place with him. She only notices when he's not lying at all. A bit of truth and a bit of lie is just Hook being Hook and wouldn't raise any red flags of extra sketchiness.

[mindbird]

O Hook.........I need a fan.

Hook is a wonderfully imperfect hero vacillating moodily between Pirate Hook and New Hook. I thought that, at the end, he looked the whole family over and sized them up: he can't endanger Emma by removing her power; Emma will never sacrifice the family to protect her power .

I think Hook looked like a man on his way out of town.

 

[Faemonic]

But mindbird there are monkeys on the way out of town

and if he leaves then he won't know if Zelena would decide to kill everybody Emma loves because he left

(and what what Zelena threatened to do, she would probably do anyway)

But then again when it came to this important plot point nothing made sense, so if next episode puts Hook in a corner because he tried to skip town and got caught up by a flying monkey then I wouldn't be surprised.

[daxx]

I still think he will tell David about the curse. I am sure David will encourage him to then tell Emma. But maybe not this next episode.

[mindbird]

Hook and Emma could marry and produce a dynasty without having to kiss, but I can't believe Zelena would wait around for even a few days while he walks around not kissing Emma. This is an imminent threat, and the only way Hook would think he could face the death of "everyone Emma loves" would be to flee from seeing it. Watching them die, he would tell Emma, and then Emma would kiss him. But Emma is who he loves, so I think he is going to (try to) leave town.

But if Emma also loves Hook, as she may have begun to, he would be up the creek on a stolen boat without a paddle, so to speak.

Except it won't happen because they won't kill off the whole gang.

[Faemonic]

That would be a cute reversal of the Dreamshade secret, David being privy to Hook's secret and nagging Hook to tell Emma.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Faemonic

[Zuleikha]

I admit it; I did not see the Ariel-as-Zelena twist coming until she started to smirk after getting Hook to say Emma Swan's name. I thought it might mean that Hook was the heart for the courage-brains-heart spell, but I guess not. I do like the curse as an injection of angst. I'm shallow; I can watch Hook be angsty all day. 

 

Presumably, Zelena placed the cloak in Gold's shop for Hook to find since we know Ariel and Eric have been happily on Hangman's Island. 

 

I like the Regina/Emma magic lessons because I love Swan Queen interactions, but I am also sad that Emma is apparently going to be the specialist magic maker. I hate that trope. I do like that Regina doesn't appear to be jealous but rather seems to be taking on a proud teacher role. Emma/Regina have nice friendship chemistry.

[KAOS Agent]

The deeper we get into this rewatch the more disappointing the show becomes. I read people's thoughts from when the show was airing and see the interest in some of the developing storylines and it reminds me that I once felt that way. This episode wasn't bad and I think I liked it at the time, but once you put it in the context of the full story, I lose interest. For a show that I was really enjoying (and I was super invested at this point in the original airing), there is so little rewatch value for me. 

That said, I loved the David/Emma crib building. I also appreciated that Henry was acting age appropriately and normally. Hanging out with Hook would be much more interesting than an obsessive pregnant woman. It's clear the writers know how to write a preteen boy, so it shouldn't be that hard to keep it up. Ariel is always fun. And Emma's amused reaction to David's attempt to be cool and Regina's what the hell reaction to it were also entertaining.

Things I hate: Making Emma into an utter moron just for a quick tapas quip. David deciding to teach Henry how to drive right down the middle of Main Street. Zelena's nonsensical Kiss Curse. What is her plan anyway? Why not just curse Emma directly? Why not threaten all of Emma's friends and family directly? What's the point? The angst is dumb and mopey Hook is annoying.

[KingOfHearts]

And here we all thought the Hook-centric would be about how he got back to Emma.

[profdanglais]

16 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

Zelena's nonsensical Kiss Curse. What is her plan anyway?

This. So, so much. On the first watch of this episode I was super excited because I thought it would lead to some nice development of CS, opportunities for them to kiss that Hook pulled back from, leaving Emma confused, etc.

Spoiler

Instead, nada. The closest we came was the scene in the diner, which was then cut short by Belle arriving with some dumb something-or-other that I can't even remember. 

Also, I hate that Hook swearing on Emma's name is framed as a selfish act. Him wanting to make amends for his past actions is not selfish, it's redemption. It's character development. So of course the show punishes him for it. 

[Shanna Marie]

This is one of those episodes that's fun in a superficial way but that falls apart the moment you think about it. On the plus side, it's nice to see some Charming family interactions. Hook and Ariel are wonderful together, the combination I hadn't imagined but that turns out to be a lot of fun -- in fact, in some ways they might have made a better pairing than Hook and Emma. My brain has suddenly gone to an AU place in which they mashed up Hook and Eric, so that Hook was the man Ariel rescued and fell in love with, not realizing that he was a pirate. There was Blackbeard. There was actual swashbuckling.

But the plot really doesn't make a lot of sense. Why did Zelena need this curse cast now? In the previous episode, she was able to flick Emma aside like a speck of dust. She was no threat at all. It's hard to imagine her coming out of that encounter and thinking, "You know, what I need to do now is come up with a convoluted plan to maybe take away the magical powers of the person who posed no threat to me in our last encounter." It might have worked better if we'd seen a flying monkey nearby when Emma was talking to Hook about learning magic. Then we'd know that Zelena knew what Emma was up to and was concerned that Emma might be leveling up. Or if the Zelena part of the story happened after Regina's magic lessons and after Emma was able to reshape the bridge -- and, again, we saw a flying monkey in the distance, so we'd know Zelena knew what Emma was capable of, so she'd have reason for concern.

Then there's the problem that the whole plot depends on the villain being oddly omniscient. Why would she have assumed anything about Hook's feelings for Emma? They've just gone tracking in the woods together once since they got back to Storybrooke. We found their interactions then meaningful because we had the context of the previous season and arc, but if you'd never seen any of them before (and you didn't know they were TV characters), would you look at these two people and assume they'd be kissing anytime soon? Without that awareness, why would she have used her magic to track back and find out what Hook had been up to? That's assuming she used the magic iPad to look at his past year and find something she could use. If it was her flying monkeys, then why would she have thought to have Hook followed? He was isolated from the rest of the group and wouldn't have seemed to be a factor in any of her plans. Either way, how did she know exactly how he felt? Then there was the degree of her Ariel impersonation, where she not only knew what went on between Hook and Ariel, but she also knew all of Ariel's backstory with Snow and with Belle. Up until Zelena said Ariel had never been there (a detail I'd forgotten), I found myself wondering it maybe it really was Ariel up to the point they saw the cloak sink -- and then the real Ariel went home, and it was only Zelena at the time when Hook confessed and apologized. But they specifically said Ariel was never there. The amount of knowledge Zelena just happens to have about everyone is rather ridiculous. She's not going into her own past. She would have had no reason to have had spies watching some of these people at the time she would have had to be watching them. Can she look at any point in history to see what was going on then?

So basically, Zelena had an encounter with Emma that she won easily, with no indication that Emma would ever be a factor, and in response, Zelena did extensive research on Hook, found out what he'd been doing during the missing year, then did enough research on Ariel to be able to impersonate her, including knowing who she'd interacted with in Storybrooke (the impersonation spell might give some knowledge of the person, but it seems to me that this would be the kind of spell that requires proximity and/or some item from that person. Zelena was never anywhere near Ariel, so how could she copy her like that?), then psychologically manipulated Hook, hoping he'd feel bad enough to feel obligated to swear on Emma's name -- which did require an assumption on her part that he did love her, so maybe part of her spying involved pulling up the magic footage from the Echo Cave -- and then she had to hope that he'd go through with kissing Emma to take away her powers. I'm not even sure why she told Hook. Of course he was now going to avoid kissing her. Wouldn't it have worked better if she hadn't told him, if he'd gone on thinking it had been Ariel, and then Zelena had rigged the sort of situation that would throw Emma into his arms?

There was a weird continuity issue. When Emma and Hook are at the docks, it's a nice, sunny, dry day. A little while later when the Charmings are walking on the beach and find Ariel, it's raining. We see the sunny day outside when they bring Ariel to the diner. When Hook and Ariel are searching for Eric, it's a nice, sunny day. But at the same time, David is teaching Henry to drive and the truck windows are spattered with raindrops. Sometimes when they cut away to Snow, she's in the rain, but then there's one reaction shot where it's nice and sunny. I guess the day they were filming with the Charmings, it was a rainy day and when they were filming with Hook it was a sunny day, and either the weather cleared when they were getting reaction shots with Snow or they had to pick up a couple of those later. Meanwhile, the driving lesson was filmed in the rain. While weather can change, it was the back and forth that got funny, where it kept going from totally nice to rainy and back again, depending on which characters we were with.

It's not even worth critiquing the magic lesson because they clearly have no sense of how their magic works. There are books of incantations, but then there's no point in learning them because you can just wave a hand and do anything. Why are there books of spells when you don't need spells? And written in Elvish, but I don't think we ever meet an elf. And in one lesson, Emma suddenly has total control of her magic.

Spoiler

Until the next time she doesn't, but then she gets over that in one go.

[tennisgurl]

This is an episode that is fun and light for a kind of one off episode, but it has some really questionable stuff as well. Mainly dealing with that stupid kiss curse, which basically exists to keep Hook and Emma from getting together for a bit longer, to add more "drama" to their relationship, because apparently there wasn't enough drama. 

I do like Ariel and Hooks adventures in the EF, and even Hook and Smee have some funny scenes and banter (like Smee complaining about having dreams of cheese) and I always love when Ariel comes by. I also love her adventure outfit, its super cute! Love the cloak that Eric gave her with the Ursula clasp, its actually a nice detail that says something about the kingdom he comes from, and makes it a bit more unique. I wish we could have seen more of how it differed from the mainland EF, but its always basically impossible to figure out how kingdoms work in this world. But whatever, its nice and rather swashbuckling and the backstory is decently fun, and movies Hooks arc along. We see him struggling with being selfish, and is called out on it, and we can see that, even if he pretends not to be, he is really upset by the bad choice he made. Its why I tend to enjoy his redemption so much, he actually tries to make amends, and truly shows remorse for bad things he did. 

I do also like some of the current stuff, especially Emma and Charming trying to put the crib together, and Henry actually being a normal preteen boy, and not an eternally dreaming nine year old. And I do like Belle in episodes like this, being more of an exposition dumper than Rumples cheerleader. Snowing wanting to be "cool" is kind of lame and dorky, but its also kind of cute, and is at least the characters being allowed to do family stuff, even if Henry has no idea these are his grandparents. So thats nice enough.

However, Zelena in Storyebrooke is so stupid, and just raises so many questions. How does she know freaking everything? How many spies does she have flying around? She seems to know basically everything, is everywhere, and can do anything that plot wants her to. Its classic Once. The villain is uber powerful and is running around causing trouble, while the good guys kind of putter around not doing anything that productive, and everyone just kind of skirts around, until the ending of the arc where they suddenly have the big magic whatever that will save the day, despite the villain being all powerful just the last episode. 

I really hope that Ariel and Hook talking about how boring stomping through the forest all of the time to get around was super boring was one of the writers snarking about how every season, even the ones in Storeybrooke, will have endless scenes of the characters wandering through forests, and thats what half of the magical lands they find look like.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Coming to the party super-late, but I've only just started watching OUAT, on my daughter's recommendation, over the past two or three weeks. Just don't watch a lot of TV in general, so, even though I do tend to like fantasy-type shows, the only things I've really watched over the past couple of decades have been The X-Files, LOST, Supernatural, and The Magicians.

It just strikes me, and I have, obviously, no idea of what is going to happen, but if a True Love's Kiss can break any curse, might not cursing a kiss prove counterproductive? Or is that too logical for this show? Not that I have the world's greatest grasp of logic, to begin with, nor do I tend to remember a lot of details of a show. especially when I binge-watch, but, as I said, just a thought.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Jynnan tonnix

[KAOS Agent]

11 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

It just strikes me, and I have, obviously, no idea of what is going to happen, but if a True Love's Kiss can break any curse, might not cursing a kiss prove counterproductive? Or is that too logical for this show?

This show and logic do not coexist. In this case, the show has a problem where too many characters have all powerful magic and they need to create random illogical reasons why they can't use their power. Rumpel should be able to kick everyone's ass, but is either apathetic or motivated to not help/actively work for the other side. Regina's magic is now rated below Zelena's because reasons. And we have Emma, who is supposed to have super powerful True Love white magic, but can't because then the story would be over immediately. Logically, if Zelena had just gone about her business, she could have done what she wanted no problems, but there's no story there either. Instead we have all knowing Zelena planning to remove Emma's magic via kiss curse with no explanation of why, if she has this power, she doesn't just roofie Emma's water or something.  It's stupid and only used to add drama to Captain Swan.