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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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AstridM

AstridM

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree MacDaddy is a misogynistic religious zealot who likes to wield his power, but I don't feel he leads a cult. IMO, the congregants are free to cherry pick their beliefs, the same as many other churches. 

I don't expect Jinger or Jill to ever become liberal Christians. I for sure believe they will both lead lives that include judging others and interfering with human rights, but I feel Jinger is one step closer to recognizing, or to use her word, disentangling, what leans cult and what leans Christian, than Jill is.

How is she one step closer, specifically? I’m not following.

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

I don't think it's fair to compare Jill to Jinger. They had vastly different journeys once they were able to distance themselves from the IBLP. Jill is now estranged from her father and other family members. Jinger has been very careful not to blame JB/Meech for their part in immersing the family in false teachings. AFAIK, no one has disowned her. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

How is she one step closer, specifically? I’m not following.

7 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I don't think it's fair to compare Jill to Jinger. They had vastly different journeys once they were able to distance themselves from the IBLP. Jill is now estranged from her father and other family members. Jinger has been very careful not to blame JB/Meech for their part in immersing the family in false teachings. AFAIK, no one has disowned her. 

Jill, IMO has given little specification of what parts of Gothardism/IBLP is damaging other than giving a father lifetime authority. She talks about a blissful childhood. She doesn't seem to understand insisting children obey is taking away their agency and giving it to their parent(s). I think Jill will get there someday, but she's focused on a financial family feud more than being raised in a cult, whereas Jinger was focused on the damage cults can do.

I think Jinger did fully blame JB&M. They raised her. She said the way she was raised made both her childhood and adulthood difficult. She's discussed trying to figure out where Gothard/IBLP stops and Christianity starts. She also said she has fractured relationships with some family members.

 

 

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beckie

beckie

Wasn't Jill the family snitch? The goody two shoes who never did anything wrong? Maybe that's why she sees her childhood as good, because for her, it was. 

It's only been recently that she's seen things differently. 

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

(edited)
42 minutes ago, beckie said:

Wasn't Jill the family snitch? The goody two shoes who never did anything wrong? Maybe that's why she sees her childhood as good, because for her, it was. 

It's only been recently that she's seen things differently. 

This does strike me as having a lot of truth to it. The thing that puzzles me about Jill ( and one of the things which has always appealed to me about her) is that bohemian streak she seems to have. That just suggests a bit of a rebellious nature, which she has not really otherwise displayed when it comes to her upbringing, at least. Maybe she reminds me a little of myself. I was always the goody-two-shoes in some ways, being too timid to overtly display any rebellion, but internally, seething at the notion of having to conform. 

Edited by Jynnan tonnix
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floridamom

floridamom

I am half way through reading Jinger's newest book. I am sad to read just how fearful and scared to death she had become due to her parents' belief system. How could parents not know or not really care that Jinger was so frightened. She stated that she would end up sleeping in her parents' bedroom due to her examination of conscience at night and maybe she skipped a "sin" that she should atone for. How could parents not know the depth of her fear and do nothing, really, about it?

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AstridM

AstridM

34 minutes ago, floridamom said:

I am half way through reading Jinger's newest book. I am sad to read just how fearful and scared to death she had become due to her parents' belief system. How could parents not know or not really care that Jinger was so frightened. She stated that she would end up sleeping in her parents' bedroom due to her examination of conscience at night and maybe she skipped a "sin" that she should atone for. How could parents not know the depth of her fear and do nothing, really, about it?

It’s a fear-based religion/cult. 

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laurakaye

laurakaye

My guess is that JB and Michelle fed that fear because a fearful child is more willing to do whatever their parents tell them to do and not step out of line.  They probably wished that all of their kids were as fearful as Jinger.

Sad to think that these kids didn't get the comfort they should've gotten from their parents, no matter what it was that they were scared of...including what was going on under their own roof.

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AstridM

AstridM

3 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

My guess is that JB and Michelle fed that fear because a fearful child is more willing to do whatever their parents tell them to do and not step out of line.  They probably wished that all of their kids were as fearful as Jinger.

Sad to think that these kids didn't get the comfort they should've gotten from their parents, no matter what it was that they were scared of...including what was going on under their own roof.

Exactly - fearful kids are more compliant. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Gothard, and other cult leaders are smart, they grow the fear toward some abstract entity and give the power of safety and comfort to themselves and other 'elders'. For Gothard/IBLP this dynamic creates triangulation. So the kids look to their parents and religion based rules for safety and everything and everyone else, like societal norms and even siblings are suspect and unsafe.

Imagine Jessa talking Jinger into skipping quiet Bible time and instead doing each others make-up. Later that night Jessa is sound asleep and Jinger is wondering if she double sinned - skipping prayer and focusing on her looks. She now fears God's wrath and goes to her parents for comfort. Jinger also likely wonders if Jessa did this on purpose.

Jill on the other hand followed most of the rules and was more of a surface believer of Jesus and didn't dig too deep in it all. So if Jill 'sinned', she just atoned and moved on - rules followed, all is good.

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Notabug

Notabug

44 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Not a trace of sad beige.  And I'm betting Jing is wearing real leather pants.  

I think they look great, though the parking deck is a little unusual.

Instead of sad beige, they went for funereal black on little kids.  Very Kardashian of them.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

Instead of sad beige, they went for funereal black on little kids.  Very Kardashian of them.

I know, right? I went to a small gathering, made a quick appearance at a party and was sent pictures of another, over the Christmas season. Is black the new red & green? More folks than not, including kids, were wearing black. Some had a touch of red or green with shoes, bows, nylons/tights and jewelry, but one would hardly know these were Christmas parties.

I'm not saying I expect everyone to show up looking like elves, but it seems in the past most folks wore clothes with at least a nod toward Christmas if not more. Now it seems they're barely giving it a wink.

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Notabug

Notabug

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6 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

"Doing life."  Interesting phraseology, Jinger.

Being married to Jeremy is 'doing life' in the same way that someone convicted of murder does life, IMO.  

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Zella

Zella

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On 12/28/2023 at 9:52 AM, laurakaye said:

"Doing life."  Interesting phraseology, Jinger.

Between that and them talking about living in The Big House, I find it psychologically fascinating how much the family unwittingly evokes prison to describe their day-to-day existence. 

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

Between that and them talking about living in The Big House, I find it psychologically fascinating how much the family unwittingly evokes prison to describe their day-to-day existence. 

I don't think it's unwitting.  Their theology supports the idea of the earth being a prison where they are doing life until Jesus grants them their parole in death.  

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't think it's unwitting.  Their theology supports the idea of the earth being a prison where they are doing life until Jesus grants them their parole in death.  

I get that, but when they're gushing about doing time with their spouse, I think they think they're being flattering. I don't think they're consciously making a theological statement. 

Edited by Zella
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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

48 minutes ago, Zella said:

I get that, but when they're gushing about doing time with their spouse, I think they think they're being flattering. I don't think they're consciously making a theological statement. 

I agree that they are not consciously making a theological statement here, none of the Duggars nor Jeremy is introspective enough to connect the dots.  

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JessDVD

JessDVD

Doing life together is a Christian-ese phrase that's come into vogue in the last maybe 5-6 years. Sort of like "love on". The sentiment is meant to communicate sharing the highs and lows of life with someone else - can be spouse or friends. 

I've never been a huge fan of that phrase (or any Christian-ese phrase, I don't like love on either and I really really hate love offering) but the comparisons here to doing life in a prison have permanently ruined it for me. 🤣🤣

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andromeda331

andromeda331

10 hours ago, JessDVD said:

Doing life together is a Christian-ese phrase that's come into vogue in the last maybe 5-6 years. Sort of like "love on". The sentiment is meant to communicate sharing the highs and lows of life with someone else - can be spouse or friends. 

I've never been a huge fan of that phrase (or any Christian-ese phrase, I don't like love on either and I really really hate love offering) but the comparisons here to doing life in a prison have permanently ruined it for me. 🤣🤣

I don't either. As others have said it just sounds like their life is a prison. Not a happy sentiment. I agree with "love on" too. There's a St. Judes commercial has a mother talking about how the hospital gave them more time to love on their daughter. It just sounds weird. What does "love on" mean? Why not say I love my daughter or grateful the hospital gave them more time with their daughter?

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JessDVD

JessDVD

50 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't either. As others have said it just sounds like their life is a prison. Not a happy sentiment. I agree with "love on" too. There's a St. Judes commercial has a mother talking about how the hospital gave them more time to love on their daughter. It just sounds weird. What does "love on" mean? Why not say I love my daughter or grateful the hospital gave them more time with their daughter?

I just heard that commercial for the first time this week, which was the first time I've heard "love on" outside of Christian circles. I think it's supposed to communicate more "show love by caring for the physical needs of the person", or in the case of the St Judes commercial, something like "devote my full attention to" than "love" on its own does, but it evokes a lot of mental pictures (for me anyway) that I do NOT think were intended by whatever person came up with the phrase.

Love offering can DIAF. For awhile, I was writing the announcements script at my church for people to read to record videos, and every time the office manager would put that phrase in there if we had a missionary in or someone who deserved a special offering, I would edit it to be just "an offering will be taken". I saw a video once where people were told Christian-ese phrases and asked what they think they mean, and everyone said "sex" for "love offering" so I will never, ever be able to say, hear, or read that phrase again.

Anyway, back to the Duggalos - whether they are doing life or doing a life sentence together (I mean, sometimes marriage is a bit of column A, a bit of column B, let's be honest), despite their flaws, they seem to me like a generally happily married couple and when so many of these couples seem unhappy even despite their carefully curating their posts, I'll call that a good thing.

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

On 12/30/2023 at 6:32 PM, JessDVD said:

I just heard that commercial for the first time this week, which was the first time I've heard "love on" outside of Christian circles. I think it's supposed to communicate more "show love by caring for the physical needs of the person", or in the case of the St Judes commercial, something like "devote my full attention to" than "love" on its own does, but it evokes a lot of mental pictures (for me anyway) that I do NOT think were intended by whatever person came up with the phrase.

Love offering can DIAF. For awhile, I was writing the announcements script at my church for people to read to record videos, and every time the office manager would put that phrase in there if we had a missionary in or someone who deserved a special offering, I would edit it to be just "an offering will be taken". I saw a video once where people were told Christian-ese phrases and asked what they think they mean, and everyone said "sex" for "love offering" so I will never, ever be able to say, hear, or read that phrase again.

Anyway, back to the Duggalos - whether they are doing life or doing a life sentence together (I mean, sometimes marriage is a bit of column A, a bit of column B, let's be honest), despite their flaws, they seem to me like a generally happily married couple and when so many of these couples seem unhappy even despite their carefully curating their posts, I'll call that a good thing.

I know what you mean about "love on". That one has always sounded vaguely creepy to me. I guess it's just supposed to imply showing affection, whether physical otherwise, but it always sounds so overwhelmingly touchy-feely.

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Turquoise

Turquoise

On 12/31/2023 at 6:44 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

I know what you mean about "love on". That one has always sounded vaguely creepy to me. I guess it's just supposed to imply showing affection, whether physical otherwise, but it always sounds so overwhelmingly touchy-feely.

May I also add the phrase "in-love" rather than in-law?

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Joan of Argh

Joan of Argh

On 12/30/2023 at 9:06 PM, satrunrose said:

Does that mean you should make a love offering of lotion?

Whenever I see “ lotion” all I think of is…

It rubs the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again…

He looks a bit like Jer… on a good day 

IMG_7187.jpeg

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Meow Mix

Meow Mix

I still wonder how he gets holiday time off all the time.  He supposedly was a pastor in Laredo, but every Christmas he was with his family in PA.  Then once he glommed onto Jinger, he was off with the Duggars constantly.  Not sure how often he was actually at his church.  I've known several pastors and unless you have a large enough church where you and an associate can switch off, going out of town for Christmas doesn't happen.

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

17 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

I still wonder how he gets holiday time off all the time.  He supposedly was a pastor in Laredo, but every Christmas he was with his family in PA.  Then once he glommed onto Jinger, he was off with the Duggars constantly.  Not sure how often he was actually at his church.  I've known several pastors and unless you have a large enough church where you and an associate can switch off, going out of town for Christmas doesn't happen.

He's in school right now. He's not pastoring anywhere, other than his stupid Doctrine and Donuts. 

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