The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[mynextmistake]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

To be clear and accurate, though, it's clear that she would have to explain this if somebody who disliked the things that Der says went into a place where Jer was preaching or giving some kind of speech, of course.

Because in Jer's sermons and other conversations, such as on radio broadcasts, he regularly says the exact same things Der does, in the exact same inflammatory terms, and with pretty similar illogic and lack of verbal ability! 

The difference, of course is that Der says it on social media. But Jer says it only when he's giving a speech or sermon -- and presumably those who come to the speech or sermon agree with him, or are at least prepared to agree with him or wish to be taught by him, I suppose.

They say the same things, -- literally and in detail. So they're not Jer's business either, they don't involve anyone Jer knows and he doesn't understand them any more than Der does ......

He's viciously bashed Jazz as well as her parents; all transsexuals of course as well as any parents who show sympathy for a child of theirs who claims discomfort with the sex a doctor assigned them at birth (based on the look of the genitals, which can be a very questionable assignment, given how genitalia vary); anybody with sympathy for homosexuals who want to couple with other homosexuals; women who say that sexism currently exists and they've been harmed by it; blacks who say that racism still exists and that they've been harmed by it; and Catholics -- whom he's literally called demonic while pointing out that Laredo is a mostly Catholic city --  in his sermons and various pronouncements. He doesn't do it on social media because he wants to pass as a non-bigot. In truth, however, he and Der share the same beliefs, and, like Der, he speaks them out loud. But behind a church door or on a radio show that only people who agree with him ever listen to, or the like.

It's not about what they say. The things they say are virtually identical. The difference lies entirely in where they say it and whether they're pretty well dressed and recently showered or not at all well dressed and recently showered when they say it. 

I think that might be a distinction without a meaningful difference. But obviously MMV on that!

I’m with you on most of this, but I’m not sure I understand your argument that assignment of sex (as opposed to gender) at birth can be “very questionable.” It’s usually pretty easy to tell the difference between a biologically male infant and a biologically female infant. In very rare cases the appearance of the genitals can be equivocal, but that’s really the exception rather than the rule. 

[ChiCricket]

On 3/12/2019 at 8:28 AM, Churchhoney said:

Then they allow the couple to see each other through a fenced door, the way you feed dogs or cats when you've brought a new pet into the house and you don't want them to kill each other over the food bowls. 

7 hours ago, leighdear said:

And on a shallow, physical level, he consistently looks as if he got dressed in a dumpster, in the dark.  In clothes he found there.  

On 3/12/2019 at 11:53 AM, galaxychaser said:

To store Felicity’s bows

These posts made me laugh so hard.  🔥🔥🔥

[JoanArc]

NO MASTURBATION OR KEG STANDS EVER! (For you. I already got mine!)

[FizzyPuff]

14 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

To be clear and accurate, though, it's clear that she would have to explain this if somebody who disliked the things that Der says went into a place where Jer was preaching or giving some kind of speech, of course.

Because in Jer's sermons and other conversations, such as on radio broadcasts, he regularly says the exact same things Der does, in the exact same inflammatory terms, and with pretty similar illogic and lack of verbal ability! 

The difference, of course is that Der says it on social media. But Jer says it only when he's giving a speech or sermon -- and presumably those who come to the speech or sermon agree with him, or are at least prepared to agree with him or wish to be taught by him, I suppose.

They say the same things, -- literally and in detail. So they're not Jer's business either, they don't involve anyone Jer knows and he doesn't understand them any more than Der does ......

He's viciously bashed Jazz as well as her parents; all transsexuals of course as well as any parents who show sympathy for a child of theirs who claims discomfort with the sex a doctor assigned them at birth (based on the look of the genitals, which can be a very questionable assignment, given how genitalia vary); anybody with sympathy for homosexuals who want to couple with other homosexuals; women who say that sexism currently exists and they've been harmed by it; blacks who say that racism still exists and that they've been harmed by it; and Catholics -- whom he's literally called demonic while pointing out that Laredo is a mostly Catholic city --  in his sermons and various pronouncements. He doesn't do it on social media because he wants to pass as a non-bigot. In truth, however, he and Der share the same beliefs, and, like Der, he speaks them out loud. But behind a church door or on a radio show that only people who agree with him ever listen to, or the like.

It's not about what they say. The things they say are virtually identical. The difference lies entirely in where they say it and whether they're pretty well dressed and recently showered or not at all well dressed and recently showered when they say it. 

I think that might be a distinction without a meaningful difference. But obviously MMV on that!

This just makes me sad because Jeremy comes across as such a nice guy but he’s not. I can’t understand spending your life hating people because they’re not the “right” religion or their gay who cares! There are so many more important things going on in the world starving hungry, homeless, wars etc. These people need to find something else to hate on. Why don’t they go help out at a homeless shelter or something instead of bitching about the gays etc. Oh right I guess that’s too much work. 

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I’m with you on most of this, but I’m not sure I understand your argument that assignment of sex (as opposed to gender) at birth can be “very questionable.” It’s usually pretty easy to tell the difference between a biologically male infant and a biologically female infant. In very rare cases the appearance of the genitals can be equivocal, but that’s really the exception rather than the rule. 

Yeah, it's very rare. However, people with transsexual decisions are also quite rare. And in some of those cases, people get assigned a gender that turns out not to be the one they feel. My point -- which I didn't make! -- was that even when there are ambiguities visible on the outside, but we assign and then we say that assignment is nature or, in the case of these people,  we say that's God. 

I know somebody in that situation,  which is why I said this.  In that case, the genitalia were somewhat inconclusive, but the sex was assigned at birth as it always is, and from a very young age the kid felt wrong with that sex that was assigned. 

I've heard Jer's rant on this, and of course, like Der, he condemns not only the kid but the parents for "going against God" on this and, also, the parents for failing to be strict disciplinarians and for allowing a rebellious rotten kid to rule their household.......

And to say that the sex assignment that everybody's walking around our society with is not only God's choice but always obvious, when it isn't, is just more ignorance. I put it too briefly because I was listing.

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, Lunera said:

Found on Twitter 

I expect he'd blame this on his having gone to high school for a year or two to play soccer. I've heard him say some stuff about this, and he has a speech where he talks about not having enough athletic opportunities as a homeschooler, so his parents finally sent him to a regular school for a shortish spell. What he says about that is that going to school sent him down some devilish road and nearly ruined his entire life. So I guess he blames his college hijinks on that.

I suppose the program he announced the other day about athletic kids has something to do with that. Maybe he's planning some kind of action to provide more opportunities or something. It's probably based on the problems he says arose because of his high school attendance. Maybe he's working with some people to provide more access for homeschooled kids. ....

I thought Texas already had a Tebow law allowing homeschoolers to play on public-school teams, but maybe it was just a bill that didn't get enacted. Or maybe he's pushing some other option. .... 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Churchhoney

[yogi2014L]

6 hours ago, Puffin said:

This just makes me sad because Jeremy comes across as such a nice guy but he’s not. I can’t understand spending your life hating people because they’re not the “right” religion or their gay who cares! There are so many more important things going on in the world starving hungry, homeless, wars etc. These people need to find something else to hate on. Why don’t they go help out at a homeless shelter or something instead of bitching about the gays etc. Oh right I guess that’s too much work. 

EXACTLY. The only "volunteering" or outreach we see is Kendra sorting clothes for a consignment sale and honestly that isn't really volunteering since she basically gets paid for it in clothes.( or first dibs)

I would tolerate these religious wack jobs if they did anything good for anyone else. They are selfish, lazy, ignorant twats. I'd respect their pro life stance a little bit more if they spent more time helping unwanted babies or children or unwanted adults . All these totally grown Duggar adults and not one of them contributes ANYTHING of value to society. They just spew their opinions and half assed instagram ads.

Edited March 14, 2019 by yogi2014L

[libgirl2]

14 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

EXACTLY. The only "volunteering" or outreach we see is Kendra sorting clothes for a consignment sale and honestly that isn't really volunteering since she basically gets paid for it in clothes.( or first dibs)

I would tolerate these religious wack jobs if they did anything good for anyone else. They are selfish, lazy, ignorant twats. I'd respect their pro life stance a little bit more if they spent more time helping unwanted babies or children or unwanted adults . All these totally grown Duggar adults and not one of them contributes ANYTHING of value to society. They just spew their opinions and half assed instagram ads.

Why don't you know, they are going straight to heaven because they were saved and believe? They don't have to do anything else, they are "in". 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:43 AM, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, it's very rare. However, people with transsexual decisions are also quite rare. And in some of those cases, people get assigned a gender that turns out not to be the one they feel. My point -- which I didn't make! -- was that even when there are ambiguities visible on the outside, but we assign and then we say that assignment is nature or, in the case of these people,  we say that's God. 

I know somebody in that situation,  which is why I said this.  In that case, the genitalia were somewhat inconclusive, but the sex was assigned at birth as it always is, and from a very young age the kid felt wrong with that sex that was assigned. 

I've heard Jer's rant on this, and of course, like Der, he condemns not only the kid but the parents for "going against God" on this and, also, the parents for failing to be strict disciplinarians and for allowing a rebellious rotten kid to rule their household.......

And to say that the sex assignment that everybody's walking around our society with is not only God's choice but always obvious, when it isn't, is just more ignorance. I put it too briefly because I was listing.

So true.  It's like they never considered that a newborn could have ambiguous genitalia or both sexes.  If not for modern medicine, men would not be able to know which sex the child is. So, their arguments don't hold up.  The same goes for anything a person is born with. I guess this comes from old time teaching.  The only people that I know who seem real hung up on these issues are seniors over the age of 70.  It's odd. 

I read recently that this visit by Jeremy and Jinger to CA was a forshadowing of them moving to CA.  Did anyone else see that. I'm trying to find the link.  I could easily see that happening. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[Zella]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I read recently that this visit by Jeremy and Jinger to CA was a forshadowing of them moving to CA.  Did anyone else see that. I'm trying to find the link.  I could easily see that happening. 

I haven't read that recently, but I am pretty sure someone on here has speculated on that in the past when he first enrolled, due to the online theology program he is in, which apparently cannot be completed entirely online. I wouldn't doubt it at all! 

[Lunera]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I read recently that this visit by Jeremy and Jinger to CA was a forshadowing of them moving to CA.  Did anyone else see that. I'm trying to find the link.  I could easily see that happening. 

I can see them moving to LA too. I bet Jeremy will move them there to finish his program. I'm going to try and find it but there is an old episode of Jinger and Jeremy playing the newlywed game and they were asked what their dream place to live would be. Jinger guessed Italy for Jeremy but his answer was Los Angeles. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Lunera

[Spencer Hastings]

Los Angeles is a far cry from “just a city that has a Walmart.”

[Ijustwantsomechips]

On 3/14/2019 at 2:42 PM, libgirl2 said:

Why don't you know, they are going straight to heaven because they were saved and believe? They don't have to do anything else, they are "in". 

Because that whole “faith without works is dead” doesn’t apply to them 🙄

[Sew Sumi]

15 minutes ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Los Angeles is a far cry from “just a city that has a Walmart.”

If I didn't already despise Mechelle, I definitely would have for that bon mot. Way to go with regard to letting your spawn "leave and cleave, baby." That didn't work out so well for her pet, did it? 

As for JinJer, they will have to move to either LA or Dallas if Jeremy is serious about getting his MDiv. 

[Zella]

19 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

If I didn't already despise Mechelle, I definitely would have for that bon mot. Way to go with regard to letting your spawn "leave and cleave, baby." That didn't work out so well for her pet, did it? 

As for JinJer, they will have to move to either LA or Dallas if Jeremy is serious about getting his MDiv. 

Since Jeremy harbors delusions of grandeur and stardom, it'll be L.A. 😎

[Sew Sumi]

They can't afford LA without the show. Even with that income, they can't afford even a modest house. Shit be pricey in coastal CA. Ask me how I know. 😁

[latetotheparty]

8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They can't afford LA without the show. Even with that income, they can't afford even a modest house. Shit be pricey in coastal CA. Ask me how I know. 😁

I was just going to say this. I’m not sure they can afford it WITH the show. 

[Sew Sumi]

With the show? A nice 2BR apartment/condo in the Valley. Is Jeremy willing to commute? And have no parish? (As if he cares for his flock now...NOT!)

Edited March 16, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Zella]

15 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They can't afford LA without the show. Even with that income, they can't afford even a modest house. Shit be pricey in coastal CA. Ask me how I know. 😁

Good point! I had a panic attack just listening to a friend of mine tell me about the prices in San Francisco. 

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

Good point! I had a panic attack just listening to a friend of mine tell me about the prices in San Francisco. 

Heh. I live there. Well, across the bay, which is still the 6th priciest place in the country, according to a very recent poll I saw on the news. IIRC, LA was sandwiched between SF and Oakland.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Zella]

34 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Heh. I live there. Well, across the bay, which is still the 6th priciest place in the country, according to a very recent poll I saw on the news. IIRC, LA was sandwiched between SF and Oakland.

Yeah my friend actually lives in Oakland but works in Frisco. When naive country bumpkin me innocently asked her about the possibility of her moving to SF to be closer to work, she took the opportunity to educate me in local real estate prices. 

I no longer offer her suggestions on housing. Just condolences on the prices! 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

They can't afford LA without the show. Even with that income, they can't afford even a modest house. Shit be pricey in coastal CA. Ask me how I know. 😁

Yeah, but they're kinda dumb. 

And at least one of them has stars in his eyes. 

They wouldn't be the first to try it.....And eventually find out that big expensive ponds can be very very expensive. And very very big -- so they have room for lots and lots of competitors who are seeing the same stars.....and maybe have, um, more talent.

While the stargazer in question now can't even afford the U-Haul to drag his shit back to Nowheresville, USA. 

It's an old old story. And in this case, for me, it'd be a comedy. 

Quite similar to Der possibly dreaming that he'll become the big constitutional lawyer who'll save the mightily righteous but devil-beleaguered dreams of his fellow Christians with his powerful arguments before the Supreme Court. 

Neither of those guys married a Duggar to live a quiet life in Tontitown with 10 kids......They've got Jim Bob-sized ambitions. 

EMLTA: Don't think the guys adequately took into account the fact that, while JB managed to get TeeVee fame, it's only because he created a freak show. Hardly what the marryer-in-boys have in mind, I would guess.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[SunnyBeBe]

I read that the Master's program has lost it's accreditation and is on probation for some pretty troubling findings.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master's_Seminary

Ref. living in certain areas in CA.  I had a good friend who moved to Sherman Oaks, CA after college.  She and her husband really loved living there, but, they only lasted about 6 years.  She said that the cost of buying a small home was not feasible. (All over a million for what they wanted.)  And, that was a long time ago.  I can only imagine how it is now. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I read that the Master's program has lost it's accreditation and is on probation for some pretty troubling findings.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master's_Seminary

Ref. living in certain areas in CA.  I had a good friend who moved to Sherman Oaks, CA after college.  She and her husband really loved living there, but, they only lasted about 6 years.  She said that the cost of buying a small home was not feasible. (All over a million for what they wanted.)  And, that was a long time ago.  I can only imagine how it is now. 

Yep. 

I believe Jer's school is in the first year of an approximately two-year probation period with the Western Association of Schools and Colleges. So they're safe for a while, still.

But I've also read some stuff saying they're being recalcitrant about changing. The complaints are about things like nepotism and a board that's generally very inbred with the administration......And given the nature of the enterprise and of John MacArthur, it seems that's something they'll be quite loath to change.

Plus they're getting pressure from some other conservative-Christian people to simply drop the accreditation from the ebul non-conservative-Christian accrediting group. 

All that puts them between a rock and a hard place, I think. Cause if they do lose or drop the accreditation then their students lose access to federal student-aid programs. So if Jer's doing any of this with loans, he'd probably better finish quickly in case that should happen. 

That'll be the consideration that ultimately pushes MacArthur to make changes to keep the accreditation , I expect. Because he'd almost certainly risk losing a lot of his applicants if they couldn't get loans to attend a school that has a fairly substantial tuition because it's in such a high-rent area. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Jeremy seems pretty bright. Do you think he knows these things about this school? It just seems to me that it might be something I would want to steer clear of. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[doodlebug]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Jeremy seems pretty bright. Do you think he knows these things about this school? It just seems to me that it might be something I would want to steer clear of. 

There are plenty of perfectly intelligent people who get caught up in scams and such.  Jeremy grew up with a father who was a fundie minister, he was steeped in MacArthur and his preaching.  I think that, because of his love for the way of life that this sort of ministry provides as well as for the specific influence of the guy who runs the school; Jeremy probably didn't do a lot of critical thinking about what might happen if the school is decertified.  I am sure MacArthur has been out there amongst his flock claiming that this is all just persecution of a faithful Christian by the godless masses and, since he isn't going to give up (because it's still making him a bundle), they must continue to support the school.  And, Jeremy bought it hook, line and sinker because it was aligned with his views.

[SunnyBeBe]

28 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

There are plenty of perfectly intelligent people who get caught up in scams and such.  Jeremy grew up with a father who was a fundie minister, he was steeped in MacArthur and his preaching.  I think that, because of his love for the way of life that this sort of ministry provides as well as for the specific influence of the guy who runs the school; Jeremy probably didn't do a lot of critical thinking about what might happen if the school is decertified.  I am sure MacArthur has been out there amongst his flock claiming that this is all just persecution of a faithful Christian by the godless masses and, since he isn't going to give up (because it's still making him a bundle), they must continue to support the school.  And, Jeremy bought it hook, line and sinker because it was aligned with his views.

This is possible.  I know quite a few who grew up in a similar way. I grew up fundie too.  I was allowed some things, but, it was a struggle. I was allowed to play my Osmond records, but, reminded it was straight from Hell.  You know.  Even as I young child, I knew this type of thing was not normal and I focused my attention on real education and a healthier outlook with spirituality. My parents like Bob Jones University, but, I went with a state school.  They didn't mind too much. Of course, I was bound for law and not theology. lol

Edited March 16, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[Churchhoney]

44 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Jeremy seems pretty bright. Do you think he knows these things about this school? It just seems to me that it might be something I would want to steer clear of. 

This has been written about very extensively throughout the conservative-Protestant press and blogosphere. So if he doesn't know it, he's even lazier-minded than I think he is! I'm sure he knows. 

But he really hero-worships John MacArthur, for one thing. Plus, he'd like to be John MacArthur, I'm sure. Both those things make you very loath to think there's anything wrong with somebody's actions, seems to me. 

Plus, there's a lot of controversy over whether conservative-Christian schools should ever seek accreditation at all from accrediting bodies like WASC, with a broad membership that includes secular institutions and institutions from a variety of religious traditions. And also a lot of controversy over whether conservative-Christian schools should allow federal student aid, given that its current requirements mean you have to conform to accrediting groups like WASC.... AND MacArthur and company have grumbled about the WASC findings as well. 

So if you're Jer, then you have lots of backup for just feeling that this is all unfair and further proof that the really good people of America are under siege. 

He's probably concerned about the outcome, especially if he's got any federal loans! (although who knows if he does?)

But I'd bet he doesn't for a second think this is in any way the fault of MacArthur or his schools. I'm sure he blames the accrediting body, the government, and anybody else who criticizes his school or MacArthur.

You'd have to be kind of open-minded to wonder whether your own "side" wasn't the right one in a case like this. And obviously I may underestimate Jer (no kidding!), but my guess is that he's not that open-minded. Especially in a case like this. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I read that the Master's program has lost it's accreditation and is on probation for some pretty troubling findings.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master's_Seminary

“WASC's visiting team observed and received reports of a climate of fear, intimidation, bullying, and uncertainty among significant numbers of faculty and staff.[3] Furthermore, WASC released a statement stating its "extreme concern" that TMUS may be in violation of required reporting responsibilities under the Clery Act, the Violence Against Women Act, and the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act.”

Sounds...just nifty.

Seriously, what is wrong with these people????

[SunnyBeBe]

From what I have read, this church, who sponsors this school, is non-denominational, so, I can't address their practices.  I know nothing about them.  It does say that they are conservative based. If they are similar to the Independent Fundamental Baptists (very conservative based), that I grew up with it....then, I get it.  It's hardcore and deeply instilled and they likely have no idea that these illegal practices are unacceptable or harmful.  Should know, but, slow to accept reality and slow to reform.  I wish there were some specifics of the violations, but, I guess that's confidential.  Still, I would expect someone to be blogging about it. 

[Churchhoney]

22 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

From what I have read, this church, who sponsors this school, is non-denominational, so, I can't address their practices.  I know nothing about them.  It does say that they are conservative based. If they are similar to the Independent Fundamental Baptists (very conservative based), that I grew up with it....then, I get it.  It's hardcore and deeply instilled and they likely have no idea that these illegal practices are unacceptable or harmful.  Should know, but, slow to accept reality and slow to reform.  I wish there were some specifics of the violations, but, I guess that's confidential.  Still, I would expect someone to be blogging about it. 

A lot of people have blogged. There's been stuff about it on Reddit for more than a decade, I think. However, MacArthur is very very widely admired among some sectors of the mostly-Calvinist evangelicals. And he's got a lot of power.

So, you know, individuals can make complaints but when they're complaints about the high and mighty, people get silenced or silence themselves, very often. 

And when it comes to churches or other organizations that exist in groups....Well, the groups often do function as a shield for some time. But at a certain point they're often forced to confront the problems in their midst, at least a bit.....Witness the Catholic and Southern Baptist controversies raging. 

In that way, I'd expect that the fully stand-alone organizations may have the edge in covering up, especially when they're rich and powerful like this group. Because while the Catholic Church or the SBC may get sick of being blamed and at least partly turn on some of their errant members, there's really nobody in that vulnerable position when it comes to a fully independent individual enterprise. ....

Your flaws kind of have to reach a level that will upset the general public and threaten your very existence before you look at them closely in those cases, I expect......Kind of the way it ultimately happened with Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll or Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. .......

But the kind of behavior being alleged in this case may not upset most of the people involved with the organization. Most of them probably actually take pride in being an insular and even an inbred group. They openly embrace very sexist policies, and so on. So I'd expect that most may actually side with MacArthur pretty much completely, based on the way these things tend to go. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[SunnyBeBe]

Even though Jeremy is hanging in there with that group, I still can't help but wonder why though, because, some of his comments, positions and practices says to me, that he has more liberal and open views on a woman's place in the home and society.  He seems to want Jinger's voice known.  He seems to have a lot of respect for her and acknowledges her talents and abilities. Jeremy seemed to be just as happy having a girl child as having a male child.   This isn't real common with a lot of conservative, religious groups that I know.  I intend to listen to a couple of his online sermons, to get a better feel for him.  I'm wondering if he is paying lip service with that group, but, not fully on board with its (unwritten) practices and philosophies. 

[Zella]

My impression of Jeremy is that though he may not hold all their views, he holds enough of them--and the despicable ones--that he is much more of a believer than the public persona he has crafted indicates. 

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Even though Jeremy is hanging in there with that group, I still can't help but wonder why though, because, some of his comments, positions and practices says to me, that he has more liberal and open views on a woman's place in the home and society.  He seems to want Jinger's voice known.  He seems to have a lot of respect for her and acknowledges her talents and abilities. Jeremy seemed to be just as happy having a girl child as having a male child.   This isn't real common with a lot of conservative, religious groups that I know.  I intend to listen to a couple of his online sermons, to get a better feel for him.  I'm wondering if he is paying lip service with that group, but, not fully on board with its (unwritten) practices and philosophies. 

I agree he's kind of a hard one to figure. But his dad is a pretty prominent complementarian, with lots of sermons about that up online. And Jer seems to very much admire and respect Chuck and aspire to be like him. So I'd be quite surprised if he doesn't agree with his philosophies. And Jer's also hung with a lot of prominent church guys who also share this opinion. 

As we've discussed before, he deliberately chose a "meek" woman, and someone raised in a super-patriarchal system who hasn't given any sign she veered from it. 

And he deliberately chose to go to one of the few remaining seminaries that ban women completely from any of their actual seminarian classes and the like while providing students' spouses with what are basically "little wifey" bible classes so they can do "pastor's wife" stuff but never ever anything more. 

My interpretation of this -- which could be wrong, of course -- is that Jer is fully onboard with all of this.

However, there still is always the fact that all of these guys want their wives to be at the top of the little-wifey pack.

I.e., while you don't believe women should be allowed to take on any of the leadership positions that men traditionally do (so, in my view, you're a big fat unrepentant self-congratulatory sexist) you do want a wife who's the classiest and most ornamental and most a credit to you out of all the traditional wives of your sexist group.

That's the extent to which guys like Chuck and Jer promote and support their own wives, I'm guessing. They support the wives rising high as wives so those wives can be an asset to them, the men. They have absolutely no interest in any kind of situation where the wives might do anything that directly competes with any men. Because that's against Christ. 

Note that Jer was among the original signers of the anti-social-justice letter of which MacArthur and his crew were prime movers. And one of the big points of that letter is that any woman who complains that she's in any way disadvantaged or put down today by men and a male society is an evil whiner who's abandoned Christ. 

Jer is also no dummy when it comes to creating a social media image, I think.  

He's been around enough to know that saying things like this out loud might turn off enough women to limit his and Jingle's social-media following and possibly even turn off some women who might otherwise decide to follow his religious example.

So my guess is that he wraps it all in a nice "modern" package that appears unobjectionable -- and even attractive -- to just about everybody. There's certainly a long history of people getting people on board with their theologies and philosophies and ideologies because they keep the parts that might annoy people out of sight until people have been a bit won over. So I don't know why Jer wouldn't follow this. In his mind,  it would all be for a good cause -- gently ease people on board his complementarian Calvinist train and then, when they've already bought into some of it, then ease them farther along to buy into all. That approach works. 

Plus, I'm still sure that he's pinning at least some of his hopes for a big job on dangling his and Jingle's big TeeVee and social-media followings in front of people -- so that people will see him as a potential source of new prospects in a way that few other young guys in their belief group can muster.

So I see him as being super-unlikely to put anything on social media that could turn off anybody -- no matter how strongly he believes that thing. Because he NEEDS AND CRAVES those big numbers. They're perhaps his only distinguishing quality in what I'm sure is a tight job market.

Plus, like all the Duggarlings and their marryers-in, as far as I can see, Jer's not an actual leader or bright or intellectually active enough to be an original thinker. So I don't really see him having the inclination to scrutinize the individual planks of a belief system that he generally buys into.

I expect he buys everything his heroes say and would never even think of accepting one principle while rejecting another, frankly. (Unless that plank interferes with his convenience too much, of course. In which case I expect he'd do what most people do -- just ignore that plank while pretending to himself that he's actually abiding by it.)

His sermons don't suggest to me that he has many brains or expends a lot of energy using the ones he has. 

That's my take on Jer, in any case. Obviously, MMV!

Edited March 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

Sounds like cult recruitment. False-front Jeremy is no better than a Sea Org member of Scientology. Fully indoctrinated, but hiding true beliefs in order to grow the flock.

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Heh. I live there. Well, across the bay, which is still the 6th priciest place in the country, according to a very recent poll I saw on the news. IIRC, LA was sandwiched between SF and Oakland.

Here's a nice roundup, including some prices, if you're interested. California just in general -- not cheap. Good luck, Jer, if that's your aspiration.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/09/12/cost-live-america-most-expensive-cities/37748097/

Greetings from #9. 

[mimionthebeach]

14 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Sounds like cult recruitment. False-front Jeremy is no better than a Sea Org member of Scientology. Fully indoctrinated, but hiding true beliefs in order to grow the flock.

And he really wants to be their Tom Cruise.

[Sew Sumi]

11 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Here's a nice roundup, including some prices, if you're interested. California just in general -- not cheap. Good luck, Jer, if that's your aspiration.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/09/12/cost-live-america-most-expensive-cities/37748097/

Greetings from #9. 

Waves from #3! Without Hayward, we'd be #2.

But methodology here is suspect. SF is usually grouped with the Peninsula, not Oakland and the East Bay (which is a smidge cheaper).

Edited March 16, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[tabloidlover]

I live in Central CA where housing is less expensive, still much higher priced than Arkansas (cannot believe how cheap property is there!) and Laredo.  What many people don’t take into consideration are all of the other costs associated with moving to CA.

Gas is close to $4/gallon, income tax rate is high, even car registration is ridiculous.  I have talked to so many people that end up not registering their car after moving once they find out how expensive it is.  They risk the ticket.  Property taxes are also high here.

#rantover

Edited March 17, 2019 by tabloidlover

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

I love in Central CA where housing is less expensive, still much higher priced than Arkansas (cannot believe how cheap property is there!)

Yeah as I've mentioned on here I live in Arkansas and have been closely following our local real estate stuff for a couple of years now. The farms and large chunks of land can get pricey--though still definitely way cheaper than other parts of the country--but you can also get a really nice house on an acre or two or three for fairly cheap.

Have some friends who are still in the Fayetteville area who complain bitterly about what they consider gentrification and how the costs are astronomical. I never say anything, but I really don't get what the hell they're talking about. Housing costs are actually a bit cheaper there than in my small town in a rural area, and there's a pretty good selection of nice houses and nice neighborhoods. Of course, the downside of that is since the area is growing rapidly, it seems like there are a lot of foreclosures. I live in a poor area, and we have nowhere near the foreclosures they do. Guess the banks aren't terribly interested in anyone who can't make payments since they know there will be plenty of other people interested in the house. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Zella

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Waves from #3! Without Hayward, we'd be #2.

But methodology here is suspect. SF is usually grouped with the Peninsula, not Oakland and the East Bay (which is a smidge cheaper).

Yeah, it's a similar methodology strangeness for DC. They lump these together --Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, D.C.-Virginia-Maryland-West Virginia. 

And throwing West Virginia in with DC itself and the inner suburbs results in prices way lower than what you'd have if you just included DC and its closer environs. It seems to be true that a fair number of people commute in from West Virginia so in that way it's certainly the same metropolitan area.  But many if not most do that because it's a heckuvalot cheaper to live in West Virginia than DC. 

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I agree he's kind of a hard one to figure. But his dad is a pretty prominent complementarian, with lots of sermons about that up online. And Jer seems to very much admire and respect Chuck and aspire to be like him. So I'd be quite surprised if he doesn't agree with his philosophies. And Jer's also hung with a lot of prominent church guys who also share this opinion. 

As we've discussed before, he deliberately chose a "meek" woman, and someone raised in a super-patriarchal system who hasn't given any sign she veered from it. 

And he deliberately chose to go to one of the few remaining seminaries that ban women completely from any of their actual seminarian classes and the like while providing students' spouses with what are basically "little wifey" bible classes so they can do "pastor's wife" stuff but never ever anything more. 

My interpretation of this -- which could be wrong, of course -- is that Jer is fully onboard with all of this.

However, there still is always the fact that all of these guys want their wives to be at the top of the little-wifey pack.

I.e., while you don't believe women should be allowed to take on any of the leadership positions that men traditionally do (so, in my view, you're a big fat unrepentant self-congratulatory sexist) you do want a wife who's the classiest and most ornamental and most a credit to you out of all the traditional wives of your sexist group.

That's the extent to which guys like Chuck and Jer promote and support their own wives, I'm guessing. They support the wives rising high as wives so those wives can be an asset to them, the men. They have absolutely no interest in any kind of situation where the wives might do anything that directly competes with any men. Because that's against Christ. 

Note that Jer was among the original signers of the anti-social-justice letter of which MacArthur and his crew were prime movers. And one of the big points of that letter is that any woman who complains that she's in any way disadvantaged or put down today by men and a male society is an evil whiner who's abandoned Christ. 

Jer is also no dummy when it comes to creating a social media image, I think.  

He's been around enough to know that saying things like this out loud might turn off enough women to limit his and Jingle's social-media following and possibly even turn off some women who might otherwise decide to follow his religious example.

So my guess is that he wraps it all in a nice "modern" package that appears unobjectionable -- and even attractive -- to just about everybody. There's certainly a long history of people getting people on board with their theologies and philosophies and ideologies because they keep the parts that might annoy people out of sight until people have been a bit won over. So I don't know why Jer wouldn't follow this. In his mind,  it would all be for a good cause -- gently ease people on board his complementarian Calvinist train and then, when they've already bought into some of it, then ease them farther along to buy into all. That approach works. 

Plus, I'm still sure that he's pinning at least some of his hopes for a big job on dangling his and Jingle's big TeeVee and social-media followings in front of people -- so that people will see him as a potential source of new prospects in a way that few other young guys in their belief group can muster.

So I see him as being super-unlikely to put anything on social media that could turn off anybody -- no matter how strongly he believes that thing. Because he NEEDS AND CRAVES those big numbers. They're perhaps his only distinguishing quality in what I'm sure is a tight job market.

Plus, like all the Duggarlings and their marryers-in, as far as I can see, Jer's not an actual leader or bright or intellectually active enough to be an original thinker. So I don't really see him having the inclination to scrutinize the individual planks of a belief system that he generally buys into.

I expect he buys everything his heroes say and would never even think of accepting one principle while rejecting another, frankly. (Unless that plank interferes with his convenience too much, of course. In which case I expect he'd do what most people do -- just ignore that plank while pretending to himself that he's actually abiding by it.)

His sermons don't suggest to me that he has many brains or expends a lot of energy using the ones he has. 

That's my take on Jer, in any case. Obviously, MMV!

Well said!

[Christina87]

Jeremy as a pastor is zero percent interesting. He live streamed video showed up on my fb, so I watched probably two minutes, and he didn't look up at all during that time! He was staring down at books, and I literally never could get a clue what he was talking about. He said nothing with a hint of coherence. I'm glad he has such confidence in his abilities, because I don't see them. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Christina87

[Churchhoney]

28 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

Jeremy as a pastor is zero percent interesting. He live streamed video showed up on my fb, so I watched probably two minutes, and he didn't look up at all during that time! He was staring down at books, and I literally never could get a clue what he was talking about. He said nothing with a hint of coherence. I'm glad he has such confidence in his abilities, because I don't see them. 

Well, you get an amen on that. 

I'm honestly astonished that he allows himself to be as terrible a preacher as he is. Surely he's heard a gazillion sermons in his life. And he's also heard many of those sermons while he was aspiring to be a preacher himself.

Given all that, the fact that he doesn't seem to have figured out by now what good sermons and public talks are like -- and tried to imitate that in his own work -- utterly baffles me. Even if he were botching the imitations, I'm pretty sure I could tell if he were trying to model his work on good talks he's heard. But I don't even hear him clumsily trying -- or showing any recognition of what good sermons sound like and have in them.

It's a primary reason why I continue to see him as really pretty dumb and lazy. And I do find that baffling for somebody who seems to me to have such big ambitions and who obviously has had a lifetime's worth of chances to closely observe the profession he's in. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Churchhoney

[galaxychaser]

If they do move to la it won’t be for long. No way they can afford it long term.

[cmr2014]

Patriarchy does not require cruelty towards women, and children -- that's simply a by-product in some (many) cases.

It's entirely possible for Jeremy to be 100% behind McArthur and his beliefs and be nice to his wife, and love his daughter. If he's not, though, it doesn't matter -- and that's the problem. It's arguably worse that Jeremy and Jinger put an attractive face on this lifestyle that creates so much misery for so many women and children around the world.

[jcbrown]

On 3/16/2019 at 11:19 AM, Churchhoney said:

Here's a nice roundup, including some prices, if you're interested. California just in general -- not cheap. Good luck, Jer, if that's your aspiration.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/09/12/cost-live-america-most-expensive-cities/37748097/

Greetings from #9. 

Eek. Greetings from #1. 

I agree, the state is too pricey for them. (And I'm selfishly glad they are thinking of Southern California, rather than invading my Northern part of the state.)

[fonfereksglen]

3 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Jeremy as a pastor is zero percent interesting. He live streamed video showed up on my fb, so I watched probably two minutes, and he didn't look up at all during that time! He was staring down at books, and I literally never could get a clue what he was talking about. He said nothing with a hint of coherence. I'm glad he has such confidence in his abilities, because I don't see them. 

That sounds like someone who doesn't think he has to prepare and practice.  Just wing it because he wears pretty clothes.  Style over substance.

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Jeremy as a pastor is zero percent interesting. He live streamed video showed up on my fb, so I watched probably two minutes, and he didn't look up at all during that time! He was staring down at books, and I literally never could get a clue what he was talking about. He said nothing with a hint of coherence. I'm glad he has such confidence in his abilities, because I don't see them. 

I had the same reaction to one of his sermons. If we can’t even understand what he is talking about, that’s a complete and utter failure.

Edited March 17, 2019 by DangerousMinds

[BigBingerBro]

I only watched one of his sermons in which he talked about the bible and how people have different interpretations of it.  He interacted with the audience quite a bit, but the whole thing was basically a "let's whine and criticize people who do not believe the things we do" session.  When he did use scripture passages to try and make a point, it was just confusing and bumbling.  He also kept repeating "Does that make sense?" or "Do you understand what I mean?" over and over....  that in itself does not make him sound or look confident at all.  He really needs some serious public speaking courses under his belt.