The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Future Cat Lady]

I wished the people who interviewed Jinger had done their homework and confronted her about her new church.

And yes I know that they probably had a predecided list of questions they were allowed to ask, but it irritates me that they promote this church on national TV.

[Absolom]

I didn't hear Grace church mentioned in any of the interviews although it wouldn't take much looking to find out where Jinger goes to church these days.  I wonder what Jinger and Jeremy are thinking about that especially in light of Jinger's history.

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I didn't hear Grace church mentioned in any of the interviews although it wouldn't take much looking to find out where Jinger goes to church these days.  I wonder what Jinger and Jeremy are thinking about that especially in light of Jinger's history.

She mentions GCC often in the book. Mac Daddy is plugged. So, the potential is out there to harm many more people. 

[Absolom]

I'm 3/4 of the way through the book and I've noted 2 mentions.  That's why I specifically said interviews.  The interviewers are plugging the book not the church.  Anyone listening only to the interviews would have to go look to find the church or read the book and still have to look to find the specific Grace church.  

[Future Cat Lady]

The book is ghostwritten by someone who works for that church. I’m sure he’s the one who wrote all the thelogical/doctrine parts of the book. The book is a product of this church. 
 

She goes on TV to promote the book that promotes that church. Even if she doesn’t say it, people interested to know will look it up. I’m sure some wanted to know what her new faith was.

[Absolom]

Parts of the theological discussion are quite obviously not from Jinger.  It makes the book a bit hard to read in places where it flips between the real Jinger and her experience and the expansion of it into theology.  It's rather obviously just plugged in.  I don't know if it's exposure or they put less effort into smoothing near the end, but it's become more and more obvious. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Absolom

[Salacious Kitty]

Yeah, the last chapter was a slog, especially since I skimmed the actual theology. I just noticed when GCC or Johnny Mac were mentioned. John Piper was also quoted at one point. I doubt Jinger knows who he is.

[Absolom]

Ugh, it gets worse?  I'd better devote some time to just finishing the book so it can go to the next in line at the library.  I expect Jinger knows who John Piper is and that Jeremy has at least two John Piper books in the house.  He's really popular with a certain set of megachurches.  He gets more coverage in that group of people than MacArthur.  I'm not sure which of the two is more dangerous.  

[quarks]

14 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Re the NY Times list that Jinger's on, I just checked and there were daggers on 5 of the 10 books listed.  So buying bulk must be a thing.

It is, and not just a Jeremy and Jinger thing - in fact I would not be at all surprised to learn that someone at Thomas Nelson/Harper Collins walked their agent through the process.

It would be interesting to know if this was planned as a one-off, short time thing, or if Jeremy/Jinger are hoping to leverage this for the speaking circuit, which might allow the book to stay on the list.  That is, corporations/institutions can pay Jinger a reduced fee if they agree to buy, say, 1000 copies of her book, at bulk discount, so the publisher gets to dump inventory, attendees get a book, corporations/institutions pay a reduced fee, and the book remains on the bestseller list. This has been a relatively successful way of marketing self-help and cookbooks in the past, so they might well be trying this. 

 

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wasn't aware of this dagger rating. I guess it goes back to the mid 90s when two authors spent oodles of money to buy their own book to push up the list. But yet as @Gemma Violetpoints out, half the NYT list have daggers. So is a dagger similar to the steroid asterisk in baseball? 

Does anyone know what consists of a bulk order? Like over 1000 at a time, or whatever. Maybe the NYT should create two lists - one dagger free.

I don't think anyone has ever confirmed the official number, and it does seem to vary by list - the Bookscan numbers typically are lower for the Miscellaneous list than for the fiction/YA lists. 

And the New York Times kinda already has done more or less what you suggest - it's this miscellaneous list, which, as you correctly note, tends to have more daggers.

The straight nonfiction list, in contrast, currently has only one book with a dagger. The other books are mostly by major celebrities like Prince Harry, Matthew Perry, or Bono, and/or about famous people like Abraham Lincoln. 

[oliviabenson]

I definitely think J & J thought they would get their own spin off show.

[Fosca]

Article on Jinger in the New York Times: (gift link)

A Duggar revisits her religious upbringing

[SMama]

3 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

I definitely think J & J thought they would get their own spin off show.

They are going to be upset when they find out Janelle Brown and Christine Brown are allegedly getting a spinoff.

Edited February 11, 2023 by SMama

[sagittarius sue]

I wonder how Jinger would handle a sharp interviewer who asked her questions about MacArthur dogma.  I would imagine if Jeremy accompanied her he would take over answering.  Alone, I wonder how well she would do.

ETA I just noticed Future Cat Lady's earlier post which basically said the same thing.

Edited February 11, 2023 by sagittarius sue

[Zella]

4 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

I would imagine if Jeremy accompanied her he would take over answering. 

I doubt his answers would be any better, to be perfectly honest.

I suspect they were well aware of the potential for Jinger to be questioned about Macarthur--he's been in the news before for less-than-flattering reasons--and their marketing plan was designed to shield her from reporters who were going to ask more probing questions. 

[Future Cat Lady]

Could it be possible that the church is getting part of the profit from the sale of the book?

To me, it seems that the whole project/idea come from the church and I was wondering if they may have find a way to make money from it besides the publicity.

[leighdear]

Interviews like Jinger's are specifically structured.  The questions are submitted in advance to everybody, pre-screened and agreed upon. Occasionally attorneys are consulted to determine the legality of the questions. Those deemed not acceptable to the interviewee are removed. 

There's no "SURPRISE" questions slipped in, designed to shock the audience or the interviewee.  That's why almost all are taped, to prevent those little bombshells or the interviewer going off script.  There are no "confrontations" with these PR chats. 

Both Jinger & Jeremy are media savvy enough to never go into an interview where they don't control the content and know all the topics in advance. No jab at MacArthur & his church is ever going to be even allowed or acknowledged, much less responded to.  That's not her narrative.

These two may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by leighdear

[satrunrose]

The religious landscape where I am is really different, so I'm not sure, but would Jinger's message of "Leave a super-fundy evangelical sect and join a super-conservative evangelical sect (who still, in the-year-of-our-Lord 2023 thinks women and minorities should sit down and shut up)" be a huge and long-term  draw on the public-speaking circuit?

[GeeGolly]

45 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

The religious landscape where I am is really different, so I'm not sure, but would Jinger's message of "Leave a super-fundy evangelical sect and join a super-conservative evangelical sect (who still, in the-year-of-our-Lord 2023 thinks women and minorities should sit down and shut up)" be a huge and long-term  draw on the public-speaking circuit?

I think that is spot on, but to keep it in perspective aren't most Christian religions, white men in power organizations, to some degree?

To me the difference with IBLP and an uber conservative church is how deeply immersed are the majority of its members. With IBLP isolation is a big part of making it a cult. I'm going to guess with Churches like Grace, members who fully live in our secular society, are all over the place, much like Catholics, with their personal beliefs. Meaning in their everyday life they may embrace some of what their church doesn't.

I'm not saying J&J leave any of their beliefs at the door before entering the church, but I do believe others do.

[sagittarius sue]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think that is spot on, but to keep it in perspective aren't most Christian religions, white men in power organizations, to some degree?

I think the mainline churches have worked hard to become more diverse.  The Episcopal Church in the U.S. has done a lot in this area with women, LQBTQ+, and minorities in positions of power.  Although it has led more conservative congregations to seek fellowship with an Anglican group in Africa.  Of course some churches continue to refuse ordination of women, although they've made progress in other areas.  To his credit Pope Francis has created several cardinals in Africa, Asia, and his native South America.  Other denominations have high-ranking clergy in Africa, India, etc.

At my own formerly independent Lutheran Church (they were kicked out of the Wisconsin Synod because they opposed the submission of women) I was able to check some of my beliefs at the door because it meant so much to my widowed mother to have company at services, and the pastor I loved was academic and open.  However my mother is gone now, the pastor retired, the church has moved to join the Missouri Synod, and the new pastor in his introduction talk used "abomination" in regards to same sex relationships.  I'm working on finding the best ELCA church for me although I don't agree with everything there, but they are things I can live with.

[AstridM]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:25 PM, Future Cat Lady said:

I wished the people who interviewed Jinger had done their homework and confronted her about her new church.

And yes I know that they probably had a predecided list of questions they were allowed to ask, but it irritates me that they promote this church on national TV.

Exactly. THIS is the kind of thing she should be questioned about.

20 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

I wonder how Jinger would handle a sharp interviewer who asked her questions about MacArthur dogma.  I would imagine if Jeremy accompanied her he would take over answering.  Alone, I wonder how well she would do.

ETA I just noticed Future Cat Lady's earlier post which basically said the same thing.

I’ve been asking for this for a long time. 

[Absolom]

That's not how book announcement interviews go though.  If the interviewers blindside one author, they'll get no more interviewees.  

[AstridM]

9 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Could it be possible that the church is getting part of the profit from the sale of the book?

To me, it seems that the whole project/idea come from the church and I was wondering if they may have find a way to make money from it besides the publicity.

I’m sure this is the case.

[Notabug]

3 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Exactly. THIS is the kind of thing she should be questioned about.

And it is exactly the sort of thing she would never agree to be interviewed about, As others have said, Jinger's recent interviews have been PR work for her book. The platforms, interviewers and the questions themselves are carefully screened in advance and anything deemed the least bit controversial or provocative is either removed or she doesn't do the interview.

[sagittarius sue]

35 minutes ago, Absolom said:

That's not how book announcement interviews go though.  If the interviewers blindside one author, they'll get no more interviewees.  

I can understand refusing to answer questions regarding MacArthur and GCC scandals, but it would be nice if anything contained in the book could be the basis for questions.

[quarks]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:20 AM, satrunrose said:

The religious landscape where I am is really different, so I'm not sure, but would Jinger's message of "Leave a super-fundy evangelical sect and join a super-conservative evangelical sect (who still, in the-year-of-our-Lord 2023 thinks women and minorities should sit down and shut up)" be a huge and long-term  draw on the public-speaking circuit?

Possibly/probably not, but the "New York Times bestselling author" thing is. Jinger can leverage that for a speaking fee of $1500 and up, plus travel expenses. Once Jeremy has that doctorate and some sort of position at a small Christian college, they should be able to combine his credentials with her New York Times status for a few gigs per year at various conservative/Christian conferences.

I think the real problem for them isn't so much the message, but the reality that, at least based on these interviews, Jinger isn't a very engaging speaker, and may have problems getting invited back.

[Ljohnson1987]

Jer and Jing are boring. And in a religious cult. Nothing has changed. 

[Notabug]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:20 AM, satrunrose said:

The religious landscape where I am is really different, so I'm not sure, but would Jinger's message of "Leave a super-fundy evangelical sect and join a super-conservative evangelical sect (who still, in the-year-of-our-Lord 2023 thinks women and minorities should sit down and shut up)" be a huge and long-term  draw on the public-speaking circuit?

It would only work with a small, but vocal, part of the populace.  Over 60 million Americans identify themselves as evangelical Christians in the US.  Not all of them are as conservative as MacArthur's specific branch; but even those who are not as misogynistic and homophobic as Jinger's sect would, in many cases, be more than happy to read her book and listen to her speak about the experiences that brought her under their umbrella.

Look at Jinger's parents and the Bates,  They are an even smaller minority of Americans and many of us have never even met anyone with their beliefs.  Meanwhile, many of us work with, attend school with and live in a neighborhood with people who consider themselves evangelicals.  Yet, Ma and Pa Duggar and the Bates managed to parlay their fringe beliefs into TV shows, books, social media and other platforms that seemingly still help them pay the bills decades later.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Notabug

[SnapHappy]

Quote

I think the book is going to be big. 

Not necessarily NY Times Bestseller list big, but definitely fundie-world big.  Bigger than any of the other books, certainly. 

She's the first to truly go outside the norms, so even ordinary folks are curious what she has to say.  She says it's not a tell-all, but there is obviously things that will come out to slap down Gothard doctrine.  

Well, I was certainly wrong. 

And regardless of who wrote what, who's "behind" the book, who's buying in bulk and what it's true purpose is, she's the first and only family member to have their name & image SOLELY on a book.  

That's still valuable currency in their world.

[kaleidoscope]

The thing that struck me the most reading Jinger's book (thank you, library!) was how her family upbringing taught her to fear everything.  Jinger spent her first year of marriage fearful of people, and fearful of saying anything that would upset Jeremy.  She expressed no opinions because Jeremy might leave her.  Who can forget, "Jeremy likes books, so I like books?"  The mental torture alone is unconscionable.  Jinger still seems to be in the thick of it, but at least she is away from the Duggar compound.

[lookeyloo]

6 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

The thing that struck me the most reading Jinger's book (thank you, library!) was how her family upbringing taught her to fear everything.  Jinger spent her first year of marriage fearful of people, and fearful of saying anything that would upset Jeremy.  She expressed no opinions because Jeremy might leave her.  Who can forget, "Jeremy likes books, so I like books?"  The mental torture alone is unconscionable.  Jinger still seems to be in the thick of it, but at least she is away from the Duggar compound.

Interesting. I wonder if that got tiresome even for Jeremy who wanted a meek woman.  Yes dear goes only so far for some. 

[Meow Mix]

I remember reading an article by a woman who went whole hog on the submission stuff when she married.  She said that it didn't make her husband love her more, it only made him lose all respect for her because she wouldn't express an opinion on anything no matter how minor.  So, I can see even Jeremy getting tired of having the entire burden of their marriage on his shoulders.  

[AstridM]

10 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

I remember reading an article by a woman who went whole hog on the submission stuff when she married.  She said that it didn't make her husband love her more, it only made him lose all respect for her because she wouldn't express an opinion on anything no matter how minor.  So, I can see even Jeremy getting tired of having the entire burden of their marriage on his shoulders.  

I read somewhere that JeremE compared her to a Stepford Wife, which made me laugh. I’m sure Jinger had no clue what he was referring to. 🤣

[GeeGolly]

I just read a quote stating Amy said she knew Jinger was writing a book and she quantifies Jinger's post-cult success by the number of her followers.

• I doubt Amy knew Jinger was writing a book
• Jinger had her followers from the get go
• Amy said the quiet part aloud - its all about fame and followers for Amy

[Salacious Kitty]

33 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I read somewhere that JeremE compared her to a Stepford Wife, which made me laugh. I’m sure Jinger had no clue what he was referring to. 🤣

Yep. She admitted that Jeremy had to tell her what a Stepford Wife was. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[Zella]

24 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Yep. She admitted that Jeremy had to tell her what a Stepford Wife was. 

That's really sad. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

That's really sad. 

I wonder whether he made a Stepford wife sound like a bad thing? I could imagine certain stripes of fundie finding that to be the ideal (well, as long as it was steeped in the Je-sauce).

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I wonder whether he made a Stepford wife sound like a bad thing? I could imagine certain stripes of fundie finding that to be the ideal (well, as long as it was steeped in the Je-sauce).

He said something to the effect of, "I don't want a Stepford Wife." I guess the sting was lessened when he had to gently explain what he wanted instead. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[AstridM]

58 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I just read a quote stating Amy said she knew Jinger was writing a book and she quantifies Jinger's post-cult success by the number of her followers.

• I doubt Amy knew Jinger was writing a book
• Jinger had her followers from the get go
• Amy said the quiet part aloud - its all about fame and followers for Amy

It’s all about fame and followers for Jinjer, too. 

[BetyBee]

36 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He said something to the effect of, "I don't want a Stepford Wife." I guess the sting was lessened when he had to gently explain what he wanted instead. 

It sounds like ol' JereME didn't come off too bad in the book. Kind of patient and understanding. Why yes, it pains me to say so!

[Zella]

17 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

It sounds like ol' JereME didn't come off too bad in the book. Kind of patient and understanding. Why yes, it pains me to say so!

I have a hard time seeing Jeremy in those terms after the way he's behaved in other moments. I can't even begin to describe how angry his attitude during that Would You Rather game made me. 

That being said, though, I could see even him having the awareness that that moment was not the time to be an asshole, especially if he was already being driven crazy by her agreeing to everything. 

Still, though, what exactly did he expect when he married some sheltered girl from a fundie family? He and Derick both had more exposure to the real world and secular life than the other inlaws, and I've always found it creepy that they sought out partners who were so immature and sheltered rather than the more educated and independent women they were undoubtedly exposed to. It almost seems predatory to me. Is this a case of being careful what you wish for? I wanted a meek, compliant wife but not that meek and compliant. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

13 minutes ago, Zella said:

I have a hard time seeing Jeremy in those terms after the way he's behaved in other moments. I can't even begin to describe how angry his attitude during that Would You Rather game made me. 

That being said, though, I could see even him having the awareness that that moment was not the time to be an asshole, especially if he was already being driven crazy by her agreeing to everything. 

Still, though, what exactly did he expect when he married some sheltered girl from a fundie family? He and Derick both had more exposure to the real world and secular life than the other inlaws, and I've always found it creepy that they sought out partners who were so immature and sheltered rather than the more educated and independent women they were undoubtedly exposed to. It almost seems predatory to me. Is this a case of being careful what you wish for? I wanted a meek, compliant wife but not that meek and compliant. 

I'm going to guess Jeremy and Derick had no idea how sheltered and uneducated Jinger and Jill were. I'm also thinking all 4 of them had many periods of buyer's remorse during their first year. But all and all, they seem to be good fits, to a degree anyway.

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm also thinking all 4 of them had many periods of buyer's remorse during their first year. 

I could definitely see that. I imagine that's true of a lot of the couples.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

It sounds like ol' JereME didn't come off too bad in the book. Kind of patient and understanding. Why yes, it pains me to say so!

It still doesn’t make up for his admission he “resented” Jinger for asking for a glass of water post partum. Only a certified asshole would think “why can’t she get it herself?” I’m petty that way. 😂

[floridamom]

I still blame 100% Jinger's parents for her anxiety and fear. Jinger said that she went to her parents with these fears, etc. They knew exactly what they did to her in drilling these beliefs in her head as she told them where she was with them. They did nothing, really, according to Jinger...they prayed with her at night. What the hell does that do for your daughter who is coming to you with paralyzing fear of living life when you are responsible? JB and Michelle didn't give a damn about Jinger or any of her siblings; they wanted to just continue with their "TV careers and the money it brought in". They sacrificed all of their children for it. Yes, great parents, they are NOT. 

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, floridamom said:

I still blame 100% Jinger's parents for her anxiety and fear. Jinger said that she went to her parents with these fears, etc. They knew exactly what they did to her in drilling these beliefs in her head as she told them where she was with them. They did nothing, really, according to Jinger...they prayed with her at night. What the hell does that do for your daughter who is coming to you with paralyzing fear of living life when you are responsible? JB and Michelle didn't give a damn about Jinger or any of her siblings; they wanted to just continue with their "TV careers and the money it brought in". They sacrificed all of their children for it. Yes, great parents, they are NOT. 

It was a no brainer for JB and Michelle, they got exactly what Gothard promised. Their children were literally afraid (doubt Jinger was the only one) of being struck down dead by god for the most innocuous things. That is how he still has most of them under his thumb to this day. It's why Jill, even though it was the last thing she wanted to do, went ahead to defend the FF with Megyn Kelly.  I don't care much for Derick but he saying it was coercion was not good enough. It was emotional blackmail. Those two reprehensible creatures were counting on Jill to break down, and they wanted those tears to keep the gravy train going. It doesn't matter how they hurt, re-victimized their daughter, they protected their golden penis, and got a spin off where JB and Michelle were the only financial beneficiaries.  

Edited February 15, 2023 by SMama

[satrunrose]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm going to guess Jeremy and Derick had no idea how sheltered and uneducated Jinger and Jill were. I'm also thinking all 4 of them had many periods of buyer's remorse during their first year. But all and all, they seem to be good fits, to a degree anyway.

I'm always going to side-eye Jeremy's wanting a meek wife, but one of the fundy home-fooling selling points is getting a kid who has memorized half the bible (a sure sign of intelligence for them) and has the rhetorical god-bothering skills to reduce an atheist to tears. That's certainly what the Duggars were trying to show with Per-pen-dic-u-lar and bankruptcy law. Now, watching as a critic, it's pretty easy to see that SODRT is a disaster, but as a young man who's mostly looking for a religiously acceptable lady, yeah, I can see missing the warning signs. 

[Red Fields]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I just read a quote stating Amy said she knew Jinger was writing a book and she quantifies Jinger's post-cult success by the number of her followers.

• I doubt Amy knew Jinger was writing a book
• Jinger had her followers from the get go
• Amy said the quiet part aloud - its all about fame and followers for Amy

And Jinger is still in a cult. Just a slightly different one.

[Totally]

I side eye Jinger’s claim of crippling fear, I mean I suppose she could have been putting on a front for the cameras, but Jinger has never come across as anxious 

I think I remember her doing a stint in a coffee shop for the show and she seem to cope a lot better than Jessa 

Maybe the ghost writer has taken some leeway to make the book more buyable 🤔

 

 

 

[ChristmasCandy]

Hey Jinger how many of your family and friends have bought your book?

[SMama]

6 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

Hey Jinger how many of your family and friends have bought your book?

I don’t think she cares one bit of her friends and family have bought her book. Her target audience are the leg humpers and those in similar cult like circumstances looking for a way out.