The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Marigold]

I think we all enjoy anything that pisses Jim Bob off.

And the picture does just that...for so many reasons!!

[3girlsforus]

So Jeremy spent a night in jail, drank and partied, has pictures of him shirtless, and probably did a lot of other things typical of a college-aged athlete. Set aside any of the closeted/bigot issues for the moment.  Most of us would consider this kind of stuff typical for the age it occurred (late teens/early 20s). But we know that Boob is not ok with this. So here's my question... who the heck is vetting these guys? If you decide it's your job to choose the person your child is going to spend the rest of their lives with, wouldn't you spend a little time finding these things out? Did Boob really agree to allow Jeremey and Jinger court but didn't know any of this stuff? I don't think it's a matter of Boob suddenly becoming more accepting or just living with it because he wants whatever Jinger wants. 

Edited to add: I don't mean to imply that these things in his past means he will be a bad husband for Jinger. As CocCinci says below, if he gets her away from these people and is caring and loving to her then more power to them. I'm just wondering why someone like Boob, who has a very long list of things his SILs can't be/do, wouldn't pay more attention to this kind of stuff when arranging a marriage. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by 3girlsforus

[CofCinci]

As long as this dude takes Jinger far, far away from these sick people and is an active, loving partner - he's cool with me. All the purple necklaces!

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

So Jeremy spent a night in jail, drank and partied, has pictures of him shirtless, and probably did a lot of other things typical of a college-aged athlete. Set aside any of the closeted/bigot issues for the moment.  Most of us would consider this kind of stuff typical for the age it occurred (late teens/early 20s). But we know that Boob is not ok with this. So here's my question... who the heck is vetting these guys? If you decide it's your job to choose the person your child is going to spend the rest of their lives with, wouldn't you spend a little time finding these things out? Did Boob really agree to allow Jeremey and Jinger court but didn't know any of this stuff? I don't think it's a matter of Boob suddenly becoming more accepting or just living with it because he wants whatever Jinger wants. 

Edited to add: I don't mean to imply that these things in his past means he will be a bad husband for Jinger. As CocCinci says below, if he gets her away from these people and is caring and loving to her then more power to them. I'm just wondering why someone like Boob, who has a very long list of things his SILs can't be/do, wouldn't pay more attention to this kind of stuff when arranging a marriage. 

I am hoping Jinger actually chose him. And that maybe, maybe, MAYBE JB and Michelle have revised their insanely controlling ways a bit to allow this. Or maybe Jinger threatened to elope, with Jessa (who made such a threat) backing her, and the parents are sitting on their hands  

We've seen some of the kids move ever so slightly away from them rigid upbringing. The younger kids seem less controlled than the older ones did. MAYBE the parents lightened up - plenty do, as their kids age. And for all we know, they did some real soul-searching in the wake of the GotHard revelations (maybe Jana actually had personal knowledge of it and confirmed it to her parents - hope not, but...). People can change. I can't imagine we'll ever know for sure. But I really sincerely hope that Jinger is seriously into this guy, and vice versa, and that her dad has minimal input. 

[duggarshow]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm not gay either, but it feels very bigoted to me. I think it's just that liberals think we're not bigoted, oh no no no not ever.

 

I totally agree. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

As long as this dude takes Jinger far, far away from these sick people and is an active, loving partner - he's cool with me. All the purple necklaces!

I'm for whatever gets Jinger the hell out of Duggarville. 

Could care less if Jeremy or David Waller are closeted or not, but Fundieland is a hostile place for anyone who has an orientation other than straight or a gender identity other than what their birth certificate says.

I know plenty of men who are somewhat effeminate or metrosexual who are secure in their manhood and know they are heterosexual. Not all boys are built like jocks or longshoremen, and David Waller is a classic example of a slight and delicate build. He's trim, clean cut, and well dressed, even by non Fundy standards. I may not like his preachiness, but he does have a bit of game in his writing and though I despise the outfit he works at, I will say that he takes care of business by being a provider for his wife and kids. He's successfully launched, unlike the Duggar failed experiment in child rearing, well into their second generation of mindless breeding.

Logic tells me that I don't think David would have risen up the ranks without extensive vetting from ATI probing every corner of his mind.  Had they found anything like that in him, no doubt he would have been given extra Kool Aid.  These people are trained to root out sin in the camp by any means necessary including abuse. IF David W actually IS gay, then the fact that he can't be who he is and is forced to live a lie, really upsets me terribly. I would want him to escape and denounce the abuse and fear he was forced to live under.

These anti gay preachers like Jeremy and others like Jimenez and Anderson, are very damaging to society, both by inciting further hatred towards the LGBT community and causing self hatred and shame to those in their congregations (forced to attend by their parents )who have realized they too are part of the LGBT community.  There is documented evidence due to notable trials and recent events that some closeted gay and bisexual men and women overcome by their own self hatred have committed terrible acts of violence towards other LGBT folks. However, these preachers hide behind free speech and freedom of religion.  This ideology of theirs is so destructive.

[Missy Vixen]

18 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

II' ve also heard from Steph Curry, a national superstar and  conservative Christian who is the same age, and he's also homophobic. He's married with two kids and in no way closeted, just bigoted. 

 

I'm so sorry to read this, especially since I have really enjoyed watching the Warriors this past season. Plus, I'm kind of in love with the irresistible Riley.

Personal to the Holy Goalie: Jinger has enough trouble without dealing with yours. 

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I am hoping Jinger actually chose him. And that maybe, maybe, MAYBE JB and Michelle have revised their insanely controlling ways a bit to allow this. Or maybe Jinger threatened to elope, with Jessa (who made such a threat) backing her, and the parents are sitting on their hands  

We've seen some of the kids move ever so slightly away from them rigid upbringing. The younger kids seem less controlled than the older ones did. MAYBE the parents lightened up - plenty do, as their kids age. And for all we know, they did some real soul-searching in the wake of the GotHard revelations (maybe Jana actually had personal knowledge of it and confirmed it to her parents - hope not, but...). People can change. I can't imagine we'll ever know for sure. But I really sincerely hope that Jinger is seriously into this guy, and vice versa, and that her dad has minimal input. 

I read this several times just saying to myself 'oh please let this be true'. I really hope it's true. Of course the really nasty part of my hopes that Jinger chose him, that they are really in love, and the JB/Michelle are really mad about it because I love the idea of any of the kids spreading their wings and showing their parents they can't control them anymore. But if not I'll settle for Jinger and Jeremy being really happy together and JB being ok with it. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

With this Fundy crowd, normal rites of passage for most of us are such a big, freaking deal to them.  Yeah, Boob, Jeremy participated in mainstream culture of a collegiate and professional athlete. 

We all live for just about anything that makes Boob clutch his pearls in horror.

This means that Boob's ability to control his kids is slipping away...they will soon learn how they've been systematically sheltered  and controlled. 

[Sew Sumi]

Or he'll put a stop to everything. He still has that power over the kidults. And we know that Jinger is a weak reed who will do whatever she is told, regardless of her real feelings.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Either way, it's just sad that Jinger is getting a used piece of chewing gum and/or a bicycle with no chain as a headship.

[Defrauder]

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm not gay either, but it feels very bigoted to me. I think it's just that liberals think we're not bigoted, oh no no no not ever.

And that while it wouldn't ever be right to poke sexual/gender-related jokes at an out gay person's expense or come up with nicknames that refer to him or her as being butch or effeminate, it's more than fine -- actually deserved, even -- to do it when the person is heavily closeted because of his insane upbringing and his own conservative beliefs. Since he's a conservative Christian who's confused and miserable enough deep inside to wear pink shirts and aprons while closeted and seething with rage and married to Prissy, then he's fair game for being labeled with something supposedly cute and harmless that would actually brand him horribly in the life he's in.

Every time I see that phrase used around here, it seems to me to be dripping with contempt at his being closeted and angry. But when you struggle terribly with something about yourself that's heavily at odds with situations like the one he was born into, there aren't many channels of escape from that struggle that won't make you fear your inner being will be ripped to shreds.

He was lucky or unlucky enough to have the option of not only staying in place but rising to become a leader of that space. And while that's not a good choice and certainly leaves him just as angry as before and likely in a position to do more harm to people just like himself, I still completely understand why he made the choice. I think it's a choice that many of us would make if we were in his situation and got the opportunity -- Because of some talents you have, you get to bury the feeling that you're unacceptable in the sight of your God, and serve your God in a high position. What a vindication and a rush that must have been. How many people wouldn't take it, especially if we were as essentially blind to the real meaning of our struggles as I'm sure he was, and is? A lot of us would take that option, I would guess, and of course it's a horrible trap. My heart breaks for David Waller. To me, he's not a figure of fun to any degree at all. 

TFDW - should shut the fuck up about sending people to hell then.  He's so arrogant I have NO PROBLEM snarking on him at all.  He's an adult and whatever situation he's in he makes his own decisions now.  He's a hypocrite.  Like Josh who espoused and shouted family values from the rooftops while he was being a hypocrite in life.  Same with TFDW.  Man up and just be real David.  I don't think anyone would snark on TFDW for coming out and being gay, they're snarking on his hypocrisy.  It's the snarking on the hypocrisy that is fun, not snarking on the gay.  So the situation he grew up in makes him afraid to come out  - his problem - he's an adult.  He makes every choice to perpetuate the very upbringing that makes him fear coming out - and that's a choice he makes every day.  He's hurting more people that way - making them afraid also to come out - damning them to hell.  Now we have Jeremy all fire and brimstone about being anti gay and if he's a hypocrite about it I know I'll have fun snarking about it.   He's no kid.  But he's harming kids that listen to him and that may themselves feel conflicted.  

[RazzleberryPie]

Sad thing about TFDW - gay or straight - I think he'd still be obnoxiously smug, controlling and condescending. That's what I don't like about him. His Hitler Youth mannerisms are off putting. 

[Henri205]

Jeremy wants to 'cure' gays.  No thanks, I'm not sick. Pastor Anderson and those of his ilk want to kill gays.

[bigskygirl]

Lets keep the conversation on Jinger and Jeremy and not the religious beliefs of Pastor Anderson or David Waller. Posts going off topic especially about other religions or religious beliefs not associated with Jinger and Jeremy will be hidden or deleted at the discretion of the mods. Thank you.

[Defrauder]

11 minutes ago, Henri205 said:

Jeremy wants to 'cure' gays.  No thanks, I'm not sick. Pastor Anderson and those of his ilk want to kill gays.

Jeremy the lesser of two evils .

[BitterApple]

I'm trying to reconcile Jeremy "then" and Jeremy "now". He went to a regular college, lived in Europe and got to experience the things that scare most Fundies shitless. So what was the catalyst that caused him to dive back into the Crazy? It's just odd to me that a good looking guy who'd presumably have no problem attracting women would get tangled up with the Duggars. And that he'd go after Jinger. She's cute and all, but she doesn't exactly scream WAG material to me.

[Fuzzysox]

After all these revelations this week Boob needs to either give holy goalie boy the boot or force him to announce their engagement NOW otherwise I think the whole boat will sink if nothing happens this weekend.

I vote for the boot because Jinger doesn't deserve any of his "baggage."

Edited July 8, 2016 by Fuzzysox

[queenanne]

Jeremy does kind of appear like he's gearing up to go out to the Mermaid Parade there, but I don't necessarily think he's closeted on account of it.  That strikes me kind of like my thinking that every college guy who ever donned a silly toga post-"Animal House" is in the closet.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he never gave said photo's existence a second thought.  I'm surely no athlete myself, but when you are, I imagine you probably get used to spending your time in locker rooms in all stages of undress.  

I also don't think the boy fundies think there's anything wrong with athletics in and of itself; it's just you can't want to be too good at it lest you shame the not-so-skilled (Christian) duffers, lol.  I feel like even King David was praised for being in good shape; and it was certainly postulated as a virtue in respect of the likes of Samson.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Boob wouldn't let his boys or girls play in team sports because he knows it means locker rooms, nudity, bum slapping, and tomfoolery.

Every day I'm more and more horrified at the extent to which these kids have been so removed from any sort of normalcy.  He has controlled every facet of their lives, right down to the minutiae of their lives.

Bad boy Jeremy is no doubt scandalizing Boob. As much as I want Boob's head to explode, I wish no heartbreak on Jinger

[Readalot]

19 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob wouldn't let his boys or girls play in team sports because he knows it means locker rooms, nudity, bum slapping, and tomfoolery.

Every day I'm more and more horrified at the extent to which these kids have been so removed from any sort of normalcy.  He has controlled every facet of their lives, right down to the minutiae of their lives.

Bad boy Jeremy is no doubt scandalizing Boob. As much as I want Boob's head to explode, I wish no heartbreak on Jinger

Even without these excuses, I think no sports because he is cheap as fuck and he and the misses are too lazy to get the kids to practice let alone they would have to go to the games to keep up appearances. Plus sports promote teamwork, risk taking, build confidence and friendships. And the kids can't be athletic because Jim Bob is not. He is such an ass. 

[Lady Edith]

5 minutes ago, Readalot said:

Even without these excuses, I think no sports because he is cheap as fuck and he and the misses are too lazy to get the kids to practice let alone they would have to go to the games to keep up appearances. Plus sports promote teamwork, risk taking, build confidence and friendships. And the kids can't be athletic because Jim Bob is not. He is such an ass. 

Not only that, but organized sports would expose the little Duglings to people not of their ilk.  The great unwashed.  It's OK when they interact briefly with TV personalities or interior decorators or potential customers...because they serve a purpose and disappear after they are no longer necessary.  Not so for teammates, coaches, etc.  God forbid, they would have to WORK with these people!  Create friendships and be (dare I say it) accountable to them!  

And speaking of coaches, they are authority figures.  And Jim Bob is the only authority in Duggarsom. 

[CofCinci]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm trying to reconcile Jeremy "then" and Jeremy "now". He went to a regular college, lived in Europe and got to experience the things that scare most Fundies shitless. So what was the catalyst that caused him to dive back into the Crazy? It's just odd to me that a good looking guy who'd presumably have no problem attracting women would get tangled up with the Duggars. And that he'd go after Jinger. She's cute and all, but she doesn't exactly scream WAG material to me.

Very good question.  My money is on some sort of trauma. 

[3girlsforus]

35 minutes ago, Lady Edith said:

Not only that, but organized sports would expose the little Duglings to people not of their ilk.  The great unwashed.  It's OK when they interact briefly with TV personalities or interior decorators or potential customers...because they serve a purpose and disappear after they are no longer necessary.  Not so for teammates, coaches, etc.  God forbid, they would have to WORK with these people!  Create friendships and be (dare I say it) accountable to them!  

And speaking of coaches, they are authority figures.  And Jim Bob is the only authority in Duggarsom. 

I think this is a HUGE reason for no organized sports or other activities (like a homeschool co-op). For those in serious, competitive sports, coaches can be like second parents. Teammates can be like family. They want no one to have any influence on them in any way except for Boob and Chelle. 

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob wouldn't let his boys or girls play in team sports because he knows it means locker rooms, nudity, bum slapping, and tomfoolery.

 

And, far far worse than that for a dedicated offspring brain-warper and prison warden like JIm Bob, it means meeting other kids in situations where kid-only conversation is hard if not impossible to control.

His big worry is always that someone will see through him and escape his total control.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And, far far worse than that for a dedicated offspring brain-warper and prison warden like JIm Bob, it means meeting other kids in situations where kid-only conversation is hard if not impossible to control.

His big worry is always that someone will see through him and escape his total control.

They would come back from playing sports and ask their parents...why does Billy....why does Suzie get to play with other kids? Their accountability minions make sure they don't talk to other kids when they go skating

and as @Readalot posted: "...he's cheap as fuck"...

No doubt Jeremy has to grit his teeth when he deals with Boob.  Hope he gives our meek reed a backbone...she's waiting for her TLC payday so she can leave the circus.

[Marigold]

I bet Jeremy looooves Jim Bob. Jeremy looks super hard core and very controlling. He probably admires Jim Bob's style. 

[Churchhoney]

9 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I bet Jeremy looooves Jim Bob. Jeremy looks super hard core and very controlling. He probably admires Jim Bob's style. 

Or at least love him until JB assumes he can control him.   Could get interesting then. It'd be great if JIm Bob had actually welcomed into the fold someone who would actually do that.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

If there is $$$ and fame involved, Jeremy will lay off a bit and let Jim Bob strut his stuff. 

[Temperance]

20 hours ago, Marigold said:

If there is $$$ and fame involved, Jeremy will lay off a bit and let Jim Bob strut his stuff. 

And maybe vice versa. If Jeremy can bring up the ratings for J&JCO, then JB will be happy with him. I tend to think JB likes Jeremy more than we know.

Two more points:1) Before both the first Josh scandal, the next season of 19KC was going to be about Josiah and Marjorie Jackson's courtship. I personally never had anything against Marjorie, and she seemed like a nice kid to me. But she wore pants, was articulate (especially for this crowd) and seemed in general better educated than any Duggar. She also seemed ambitious and had written a book on her own. She was part-Hispanic (and bilingual, which always impressesme since I only speak one language).  In some ways her parents were fundies and friends of the Duggars and she fit in well and in other ways, she was very different than the Duggars. But then Josh happened, and these two broke up.

Now Jinger is courting Jeremy, who also is very different from the Duggars. He's better educated. He has done things the Duggars don't like. He also is  Italian American (meaning he's more ethnic than most of the people who marry into the Duggars). 

I think JB has been looking for someone who goes against Duggar conventions for a while, possibly for story-line purposes and to keep interest in the show. As long as they are fundie now, that's what counts.

2) Before any of the girls married, there was episode where they were "answering the viewers' questions" and one of the questions was "what does it take to date one of those Duggar girls?" or something like that. Of course the girls let JB weigh in. He said he was looking for someone who was financially independent and made a certain amount of money. Then time went on and I think JB began to think he would never find someone who made enough money and Ben showed up etc. But then Derrick showed up and and when they met him, he had a good job and probably now has a good fallback career. I think Jeremy having better job prospects outside the Duggar bubble might be endearing to JB. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Boob needs to find spouses for his kids who are capable of working outside the Duggar Vortex...to date, if Jeremy is actually another deadbeat SIL, he might as well call the show "31 Dependents and Counting".

[RazzleberryPie]

Or bob could let the adults off the complex to find their own spouses, or let them get some education or training to help support a family. 

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Or bob could let the adults off the complex to find their own spouses, or let them get some education or training to help support a family. 

He would have to have some sense knocked into his big, fat melon for this to ever happen. And as we've seen, his melon is very, very thick. 

[Vaysh]

Quote

He also is  Italian American (meaning he's more ethnic than most of the people who marry into the Duggars). 

Forgive me, but what exactly does "ethnic" actually mean in American? I've seen it used about black people, latinos, asians and middle eastern people but I don't think I've seen it used about anyone of European descent before. Is it used about basically anyone not of anglo/irish/northern European descent?

[Sew Sumi]

It has applied to every immigrant group to the US (at one time or another) excepting English/Scots and possibly the Scandanavians. The Irish, Germans, and Italians were all marginalized and spat upon in the Ellis Island years. The Scandanavians moved further west (a climate they understood in the Upper Midwest), so I think they didn't feel the sting of ethnicity like the other Europeans did. 

Italians, and to some degree (Boston, mostly) Irish Americans still tend to self-segregate quite a bit, especially in the Northeast, although there are Italian American enclaves in many other big cities across the US, including here in San Francisco. Jeremy is from suburban Philadelphia. If you've seen Rocky, you've seen South Philly, another strongly Italian American enclave. 

Edited July 10, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[lulu69]

32 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

Forgive me, but what exactly does "ethnic" actually mean in American? I've seen it used about black people, latinos, asians and middle eastern people but I don't think I've seen it used about anyone of European descent before. Is it used about basically anyone not of anglo/irish/northern European descent?

In my experience the term 'ethnic' was applied to anyone not WASPY, i.e. white, anglo-saxon, protestant.

Edited July 10, 2016 by lulu69

[kokapetl]

Ethnic tends to be applied to populations or people that don't look WASP or "normal", people that look different. Most Italian immigration came from Southern Italy, where olive skin and dark brown hair are normal. 

[Sew Sumi]

There was rampant anti-Germany sentiment in the US for years, even following WWI (and of course, re-emerging again in WWII). They otherwise fit the WASP categories. But now? You have some German enclaves in the upper midwest in places like Milwaukee and Chicago, otherwise I'd say their cultural cornerstones (especially food) are now assimilated. Although I do have a co-worker who knows all of the good German eateries within 50 miles of here, so they DO still exist. :D

I live in a food mecca, but you know what you can't find around here? Scandanavian. 

Edited July 10, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

In my experience the term 'ethnic' was applied to anyone not WASPY, i.e. white, anglo-saxon, protestant.

15 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Ethnic tends to be applied to populations or people that don't look WASP or "normal", people that look different. Most Italian immigration came from Southern Italy, where olive skin and dark brown hair are normal. 

My experience is that the term ethnic is based on looks. I live in a predominantly Irish Catholic neighborhood and no one would use the term ethnic when describing them. If asked, most of my friends would describe themselves as 1/4 Irish or  1/2 Irish, though.

[Sew Sumi]

We better get back on topic. :D

From what the poster on FJ said, who knows an aunt and cousins of Jeremy's, theirs is a tight, Italian-Catholic family, EXCEPT for Jeremy's branch of the family (his parents). The family sees them as kind of outsiders these days, which is why I don't expect a big family showing from his side of the family IF they ever do end up getting married. I'll be interested to see if his siblings show up. The sister is a musician in Philly, and the brother a filmmaker working at Harvard. I've seen both facebooks, and nothing on either indicates anything remotely fundie or even religious. It seems that just Jeremy and the parents have kept up with the fundie stuff. 

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

We better get back on topic. :D

From what the poster on FJ said, who knows an aunt and cousins of Jeremy's, theirs is a tight, Italian-Catholic family, EXCEPT for Jeremy's branch of the family (his parents). The family sees them as kind of outsiders these days, which is why I don't expect a big family showing from his side of the family IF they ever do end up getting married. I'll be interested to see if his siblings show up. The sister is a musician in Philly, and the brother a filmmaker working at Harvard. I've seen both facebooks, and nothing on either indicates anything remotely fundie or even religious. It seems that just Jeremy and the parents have kept up with the fundie stuff. 

I don't know. It just seems so unlikely to me that he really grew up fundie. At least not Duggar Fundie. Just the fact that he was a professional soccer player is so counter to the kind of fundie the Duggars subscribe to it makes me think they are more "mainstream" Fundie or even really conservative. Becoming a professional soccer player, even if he wasn't amazing, required enormous time and financial commitment on both his part and the part of his parents. It required him to be allowed to spend countless hours without them, even traveling without them. He went to a normal university. The other siblings, including the girls, apparently have jobs and don't live at home. The Duggars have their own version of Fundie. It doesn't allow any of that stuff. I think Jeremy is probably going to be surprised by some of the rules in the Duggar home. On paper they sound the same "Christian, homeschooled, conservative, missions oriented, courting etc". But the Duggar version of all of these things are nothing like what most people think of. Even the courting, I know many people who subscribe to courting and almost never does it mean hold your kids hostage until you arraign a marriage for them.  Unless you follow the show, it might not be obviously to someone how different what the Duggars believe is from what those words mean to most people. 

[Sew Sumi]

We've posted sermons from his father here before (I've re-posted them below). Jeremy WAS raised super fundie; his family was just more educated and valued that quality in their children, who all have college degrees. I think the difference was that they weren't into all the legalism of Gothard which also appears to have made it easy (or easier) for two of the three children to decide they don't want that lifestyle.

http://illbehonest.com/author/chuckvuolo

Edited July 10, 2016 by Sew Sumi
because I found his sermons

[Fuzzysox]

2 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Ethnic tends to be applied to populations or people that don't look WASP or "normal", people that look different. Most Italian immigration came from Southern Italy, where olive skin and dark brown hair are normal. 

I was born in Italy am Sicilian and am very fair. My mom is super pale and rarely gets mistaken for an Italian. Some of my first cousins have blue eyes so I wouldn't go with a generalization.

The thing about Jeremy that bugs me is how does he really identify as Italian? He certainly doesn't have a tradional Italian name nor is he Catholic. A fundie Italian is a totally foreign concept to me!

Edited July 10, 2016 by Fuzzysox

[3girlsforus]

That might make it even more likely for Jeremy to be surprised at the Duggar household. There is a big difference even between super fundie and Gothard. If he doesn't realize that he may not be prepared for the kind of emotional abuse Jinger has been through growing up Gothard.

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, Vaysh said:

Forgive me, but what exactly does "ethnic" actually mean in American? I've seen it used about black people, latinos, asians and middle eastern people but I don't think I've seen it used about anyone of European descent before. Is it used about basically anyone not of anglo/irish/northern European descent?

I  think of ethnic as people who are non-waspy and maybe have particular nationality,  heritage, or culture that the ancestors were from. I, myself, am not a Wasp, but Catholic. I apologize if anyone was offended. I wasn't trying to cause offense.  I have many close friends and family who are Italian American.   

Jeremy has an Italian last name. I don't know how else he identifies, but then we haven't seen much of him. I think we see more of his "Italian" side of his personality when the show starts airing. 

[Sew Sumi]

My husband is 1/4 Italian and half Serb, yet was raised Lutheran. The Sicilian grandfather died before my husband was born, so it may be that his French/German grandmother raised his father Protestant (although isn't France mostly Catholic, too?). My husband identifies as non-denominational Protestant, although he's been known to hit up Mass every now and then. He did attend a Catholic high school, but that was because the public schools sucked, not due to religious preference. At any rate, we have a very Sicilian name, but aren't Catholic. I'm also 1/4 ethnically Italian, but was adopted and didn't even know my true identity until just a couple of years ago. Given my mixed ethnicities, I SHOULD have been raised a cradle Catholic, but I was raised by liberal Presbyterians...with a very WASPish name of Scottish origin. 

FWIW, for all of that Southern European in my husband's blood, his coloring is about that of Jeremy in his infamous picture. His sister is much darker. I'm super fair and have green eyes. No one would guess that I apparently had an Italian grandparent. 

Genetics are funny. With all the blond hair and blue eyes in the Duggar line (doesn't Jinger have blue eyes herself?), those two could have a totally fair kid like Izzy. I realize they're recessive traits, but as we've seen, the Duggar gene is strong. 

[BitterApple]

Jinger has blue eyes, yes. For some reason they tend to photograph dark though. I think the only non-Duggar looking grandkids to date are Mere and Marcus. Jinger takes after Michelle, so hopefully her kids will escape the Curse of Boob genes.

[Sew Sumi]

Actually, Mack and her cousin (Suze's daughter, Noelle) are dead ringers. She got all the Keller genes. From what I've seen of Mere, she looks a lot like Mack. We just think of Mack as a Duggar because of the Big Head. Noelle has it as well, but not to the degree Mack does. 

Albanyguy said: 

Quote

I wonder if Jeremy would have taken any one of the available Duggar daughters and Jinger happens to be the one that Jim Bob offered up. It would make a weird kind of sense for Jim Bob to want to get Jinger safely married off the first chance he got. I'm certain that Jim Bob and Michelle are well aware that Jinger has always been a favorite among internet posters who would love to see her escape from her parents' clutches. She even has a website, "Free Jinger", named after her, which must really piss them off. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob blames her for that and regards her as a loose cannon who needs to be pushed into matrimony before she causes any trouble. A few years ago, finding a husband for her would have been easy, but after Joshgate and the resulting scandals, the number of potential suitors for the Duggar girls dried up. Then Jeremy appeared, frankly on the make and looking to join the family and Jim Bob decided that this was his chance to unload Jinger.

As I noted in the other thread, I think Jeremy approached the Duggars with ulterior motives to further his own ambitions. And I agree that he likely "settled" for Jinger. Joy is too young for him, and Jana too valuable to the running of Duggar Central. I am also convinced that Boob offered her up with his own ulterior motives (keeping the gravy train going). Sad for Jinger all around. I just don't see the giddy happiness I saw in the Jerick pictures. Hell, even Benessa looked happier in their early "couple" shots, and we know what a pill Jessa is. 

KJB knows that Jinger will do as she's told. I've said before that she's the weak reed; her breakdown in the salvation video with Ben and her tears over Jessa moving two miles away (and visiting like every day) demonstrate that. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Sew Sumi
I remembered her name right after I hit send

[irisheyes]

4 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

We've posted sermons from his father here before (I've re-posted them below). Jeremy WAS raised super fundie; his family was just more educated and valued that quality in their children, who all have college degrees. I think the difference was that they weren't into all the legalism of Gothard which also appears to have made it easy (or easier) for two of the three children to decide they don't want that lifestyle.

http://illbehonest.com/author/chuckvuolo

I followed your link back to the link of the church that manages the site, and Jeremy's brand of fundie falls more in line with the Jerry Falwell/Ted Cruz brand. (I speak fundie as a second language.). If that is Jeremy's church, they would be very conservative theologically, but not near as legalistic as JB. On a normal Sunday, there would probably be women in pants, you would see single women who are living on their own, and while being a SAHM is encouraged (with Bible studies during the day and homeschool groups), working outside the home is not expressly forbidden.  Oh, and lots of married couples would be using birth control. (Abortion is verboten, but BC falls more under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.)

So, if Jeremy can get Jinger out from the clutches of JB and move her to his home, it would certainly be a step up.  She would get to go to a church where every woman isn't a SAHM, and every daughter isn't waiting for her Prince Charming.  It's not going to turn her into a Hillary Clinton supporter (though I'd pay good money for one of those girls to tell Daddy they're voting for Hillary), but it will definitely mean the next generation has some choices outside of living at the Duggar compound. 

ETA: Honestly, this guy seems like he would have been a better fit for Jessa.  Theologically conservative, but slightly worldly, who can broaden her horizons a little. Bin better watch out.  :)

Edited July 11, 2016 by irisheyes

[Sew Sumi]

You might want to watch some of JEREMY'S sermons. I mentioned the lack of Gothard legalism in my original post, but he's still very strongly in the Pray Away the Gay camp, and his sermon on masturbation/lust with young Howlers in his audience was...disturbing. 

IOW, I think the born again Jeremy is pretty far to the right of what he grew up with, which was already on the conservative side. It appears that he's attended Gothard homeschool camp, maybe twice, so he seems OPEN to going even more conservative, not the other way around.