Season 7 Finale Special - Check Up With Dr. Drew, Part 2

[ChristmasJones]

I only saw three rumors on that link- nothing about Janelle

[brandyelf]

6 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

I only saw three rumors on that link- nothing about Janelle

You didn't read all the way to the end, then.

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That’s all for today! And for those of you who have been asking The Ashley on social mediawhether or not she still stands by her story that revealed that ‘Teen Mom 2’ star Jenelle Evans is pregnant— the answer is YES! As far as The Ashley knows, Jenelle is currently about threemonths pregnant.

[Soobs]

17 hours ago, Mkay said:

Randy won't let Adam improve?! Adam is supposed to be an adult. It's not Randy holding him back, it's Adam.  

 

17 hours ago, Mkay said:

 

I agree that Adam is responsible for his own shitty behavior, not Randy. I think it would be more accurate to say that Randy's behavior as a father might be responsible for Chelsea picking Adam in the first place. I've always wondered about this. Randy seems doting and supportive (maybe too much at times) and Chelsea was so enamored with Adam who was the opposite of that. In my experience young women often chase dudes like Adam when their father has been absent emotionally or physically. The awkward silence that followed Dr. Drew's comment about that issue but regarding Aubrey and Adam, said to me that there is more to this story. I'd love to know what it is, but the narrative of Randy as good dad seems to be the one everyone is interested in supporting at this point. And Chelsea picking Cole seems to support that narrative. Maybe Adam was her bad boy phase and that's simply it.

[Chicken Wing]

I think Chelsea was a teenage girl and Adam was a teenage boy and sometimes teenagers decide they like each other and no one knows why and the end.

[ghoulina]

I don't think out of wedlock has anything to do with it. It's their ages and relative maturity. I know plenty of children born within the legal confines of marriage, to parents who were neither loving, nor stable. My husband and I had our first child before we were married. Because we just have different priorities than other people. We have now been together over 10 years and have 3 kids and have a pretty happy, stable life. Marriage is just a piece of paper. It's the commitment behind that is important. These guys and gals were mostly all far too young and immature to be ready for that kind of commitment. 

[lilmarysunshine]

1 hour ago, Soobs said:

 

I agree that Adam is responsible for his own shitty behavior, not Randy. I think it would be more accurate to say that Randy's behavior as a father might be responsible for Chelsea picking Adam in the first place. I've always wondered about this. Randy seems doting and supportive (maybe too much at times) and Chelsea was so enamored with Adam who was the opposite of that. In my experience young women often chase dudes like Adam when their father has been absent emotionally or physically. The awkward silence that followed Dr. Drew's comment about that issue but regarding Aubrey and Adam, said to me that there is more to this story. I'd love to know what it is, but the narrative of Randy as good dad seems to be the one everyone is interested in supporting at this point. And Chelsea picking Cole seems to support that narrative. Maybe Adam was her bad boy phase and that's simply it.

IIRC ... I think at that time Chelsea maybe didn't get along well with her stepmother?  Maybe there was some resentment and some rebellion, which is hardly uncommon with teenagers!

[blubld43]

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Well f*ck me, I was living in a cocoon of relative peace until the Ashley (re) dropped that bomb. I was really, really hoping Janelle's worthless ass wasn't pregnant. Ugh, yet another victim for her and uncle Bad Touch. 

That poor child.  God almighty, I wonder what Barbara had to say about this news?

[NikSac]

3 hours ago, blubld43 said:

That poor child.  God almighty, I wonder what Barbara had to say about this news?

Which one? Jace, Kaiser, new kid, or other ?

ETA curious about Barb's reaction too. I kind of picture her silently going into shock except she's not known for silence. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by NikSac

[Brooklynista]

34 minutes ago, NikSac said:

Which one? Jace, Kaiser, new kid, or other ?

ETA curious about Barb's reaction too. I kind of picture her silently going into shock except she's not known for silence. 

I imagine Barbara has nights where she just goes into a room, closes the door and weeps for Janelle.  She has to spend many nights wondering where the bottom is for this girl.

Sometimes it's pretty damn deep and I think Janelle is just getting started.

[BitterApple]

14 hours ago, lezlers said:

I'm still wondering what having a child "outside of wedlock" has to do with being a good or bad father?  Randy is a great dad, as is Corey.  And Jo.  All had kids without the benefit of marriage.  Adumb did as well and is a horrible father.  What's the point?

It's not the norm for kids who grow up in Chelsea's income bracket. Out of wedlock teen motherhood isn't ideal under any circumstances, so I think that's why the poster was questioning Randy's effectiveness as a father. Especially when you have not one, but four daughters who go down that path. I think Randy was the opposite of Adam where he wasn't neglectful, just over indulgent. Obviously, if you had to choose between a Randy or an Adam, it would be Randy any day of the week and twice on Sundays, but it's just interesting how his daughters turned out.

[HeySandyStrange]

I was under the impression only Chelsea and 3rd sister were the ones who had teen pregnancies, not all four Houska daughters. I thought the one with the blog was in her thirties and married and no idea about the other one. Where did this info come from? If it is true then it is pretty surprising that four girls with loving parents and from a good socioeconomic background all got pregnant as teens. 

Are the Houska's religious/conservative? 

[Chicken Wing]

My thing is that there are so many factors in teen pregnancy that I just don't quite get why we're looking at Randy as a possible influence. From what we've seen of Randy and his relationship with Chelsea and presumably his other daughters, he just doesn't fit the bill to me for the kind of parenting stereotype that's usually cited as a factor in these things. So why are we blaming Chelsea and her sister's* unwed pregnancies on their having been raised wrong? (Because to me, this is what is all but being said.) Isn't it understood that teen pregnancy was quite common in Chelsea's area? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were several girls in Chelsea's class who were pregnant the same year she was. I wouldn't presume that they were all the result of ineffective parenting. It seems the likelier common denominator for Chelsea and her sister and all the other local girls who had babies before 19 is the local culture. lax sex education and poor access to birth control.

*I do think it was just Chelsea and the one sister with the kid with the stupid name who were teen moms. The eldest two sisters were older and/or married.

Quote

Are the Houska's religious/conservative? 

I remember one of her parents' houses had about a dozen crosses on the wall. That was creepy.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Blissfool]

Bad parenting doesn't ONLY mean neglect, abuse, drugs. Bad parenting also means allowing children free rein to do as they please. I know nothing of her homelife growing up, but judging from what I see now on TV, it seems like, as a teen, Chelsea did as she pleased. I'm not saying she was a bad girl dabbling in illegal activities, but she probably came and left as she pleased, spending too much time with Adam, skipping school and other teen misbehaviors. Randy and Mary probably turned a blind eye because neither wanted to be the "mean parent" in the divorce.

Yes, randy and mary are wonderful in that they have always provided emotionally and financially for Chelsea,  but they could have been stricter as she was growing up. It's so obvious that Chelsea has randy wrapped around her little finger. He is more interested in being her friend than her father and will not ever put his foot down in fear of jeopardizing the BFF relationship he has with her. And mary? She's just a doormat, as I said in a previous post. 

Hey, if both parents are trying to be your bff, then you're not getting proper parenting. And i think that's where Randy and Mary messed up. Unfortunately, i don't think they'd admit it, even in hindsight.

[ChocolateAddict]

I think that if anything, TM2 has shown the world that being married or engaged doesn't make for better parents.  Out of the eight children born of the TMs, five have had parents who were married/engaged and then broke up (Ali, Gracie, Addy, Kaiser, Lincoln). That is more than half.  

I understand the point about how all of these idiots should have been in long-term relationships before bringing children into the world but I really don't think that the institution of marriage made any of those relationships more stable. 

[bref]

On 6/24/2016 at 0:26 PM, Lemons said:

Youre right, they have to work it out.  They need to accept that Adam is never going to be perfect.  Neither will Cole after the honeymoon period.  They need to stop dramatizing the failures and be happy for the small progressions.

And what does Adam need to do?

[bref]

3 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

 

I was under the impression only Chelsea and 3rd sister were the ones who had teen pregnancies, not all four Houska daughters. I thought the one with the blog was in her thirties and married and no idea about the other one. Where did this info come from? If it is true then it is pretty surprising that four girls with loving parents and from a good socioeconomic background all got pregnant as teens

 

I also am pretty sure it was two daughters. I think the info came from one of the posters here saying so. I'd like to see some verification but my google fu ain't so great.

10 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I think Chelsea was a teenage girl and Adam was a teenage boy and sometimes teenagers decide they like each other and no one knows why and the end.

Exactly. And sometimes the girl gets pregnant, decides to keep the baby, and thereby prolongs a relationship that might have been quickly over otherwise. What I'm saying is, Chelsea's long-time difficulty in letting go of Adam would probably not have happened if she had not had Aubree and maintained that desire for so long to "reunite her family". Then again, maybe it would have. We can't know, but it seems pretty speculative to blame her entanglement with Adam on Randy's parenting. Most of us have been attracted to a loser at some point in our lives, especially in our teens. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by bref

[Chicken Wing]

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Bad parenting doesn't ONLY mean neglect, abuse, drugs. Bad parenting also means allowing children free rein to do as they please.

Correct. I didn't imply that "bad parenting" meant neglect/abuse. I was actually referring to the parenting that allows kids to grow up with no discipline and no limits, no understanding of consequences, etc. It's better, IMO, to raise kids with a firmer hand than that.

But the kids of those parents get pregnant, too. Just as often. So the parenting variable doesn't really pan out. There are too many other, more pertinent factors to take into consideration to put any real weight on that one. And I think the only reason it's really being brought up was because it was thought that all four of Randy's daughters have unwed (sorry, "out of wedlock") pregnancies, which isn't true anyway. It was just Chelsea and I think her name is Emily? And even if it was all four daughters, the fact that teen/unwed pregnancy seems oddly rampant in their neck of woods would make me more inclined to blame the social factors behind that before the girls' upbringing.

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What I'm saying is, Chelsea's long-time difficulty in letting go of Adam would probably not have happened if she had not had Aubree and maintained that desire for so long to "reunite her family". Then again, maybe it would have. We can't know, but it seems pretty speculative to blame her entanglement with Adam on Randy's parenting. Most of us have been attracted to a loser at some point in our lives, especially in our teens.

I never believed that Chelsea would have been stuck on Adam for as long as she was, or long at all, if not for Aubree. Her preoccupation with him was more for the fantasy of the two of them being together and becoming a little family than about wanting to be with him, the person, because she was madly in love with him and couldn't imagine being in a relationship with anyone else. And for that mentality, I think her family life did play a role -- I think after her parents divorced, she longed for the united, "one big happy family" family that she grew up with and tried to recreate it with her "own" family. She couldn't let that go. She still can't, in a sense -- except now she's doing it with Cole, and her obsession with Cole being a better upgrade from Adam as "dad" and wishing Adam would just go away now so she and Cole and Aubree can be their own little perfect family by themselves.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[HeySandyStrange]

Quote

I also am pretty sure it was two daughters. I think the info came from one of the posters here saying so. I'd like to see some verification but my google fu ain't so great.

I did some early morning sleuthing on the topic for kicks. I don't know about the second oldest sis, but Melissa, the one with the blog, is about eleven years older then then Chelsea. That would make her about 35-36. She has a daughter in middle school, meaning she is probably somewhere between 11-13. Melissa also has a Bachelor's and is a dental hygienist. I may be making a leap, but I think that takes her out of the running for teen motherhood.

She does seem pretty religious, which leads me to further speculate that the Houskas might be more religious then they let on on tv, and that might be another factor to why Chelsea and her sis ended up pregnant as teens and kept their babies.

[TwirlyGirly]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 2:10 PM, lidarose9 said:

At some point in the past, it became a "given" that it was best for a child to have their father involved in their lives, regardless of circumstances. We left my dad when I was 8 and moved in with my grandparents because of his alcoholism. I never saw him again. As painful as that was, I think it would have been massively more painful if he'd popped in and out of my life the way these TM fathers do. I had been told he was "sick" (which was true, he had very bad heart disease), and we all just adapted to our new life. Adam is not a father; he was merely a sperm donor. He has zero interest in Aubrey. He feels uncomfortable and awkward at her events and avoids them however he can. He would not be present in her life at all if not for the MTV money. He made it plain to Chelsea when Aubree was born. When you love somebody, it shows. He doesn't love Aubree. He has nothing good to give her. When I think of Matt's children (of TMOG), I wonder if they were actually lucky that he disappeared and never came back. Aubree gets heaps of love from her mom, Cole and grandparents. She will never lack for love. The only way Adam would have anything worthwhile to contribute to Aubree's life is if he magically changed into a better man, and that is just not going to happen. If I was Chelsea, I would give up trying to involve him at all.

100% agree. Sometimes it's better NOT to have the father involved. I've always believed a man that has to be pressured or cajoled into having a relationship with his child is not going to be much of a positive influence on their child anyway. IMO, it may be better just to "let it go" than have the child be continuously exposed to their father disappointing them over and over again (not to mention having to deal with their mother's obvious anger and disappointment with him).

With my own daughter, I asked her father if he wanted to be involved in her life shortly after I discovered I was pregnant. He said "No." I spent the rest of my pregnancy reading books about single motherhood, and the needs (and possible pitfalls) of girls being raised without fathers and raised her with those guidelines in mind. My daughter's father did see her a few times (fewer than 6) during the first couple of years of her life, and the times he saw her I kept the atmosphere relaxed and low-pressure. He eventually lost interest. He knew where I lived and how to reach me, but after the first two years he never did.

As my daughter grew up, I told her the truth about her father; that while he was a very smart and creative person, he had some problems with relationships with living things (which was the absolute truth - whether plants, animals, or other human beings - and was the reason I had decided to end our relationship the week before I discovered I was pregnant). I told her his lack of interest had nothing to do with HER and everything to do with HIM and his own issues. I've always been available to her to talk about him whenever she's needed to. I've never spoken badly of him to her except to impress upon her that some people are just not capable of love and that's their failing - and there's nothing that can be done to change that. I've also given him credit when credit was due - after all, she's half HIM and luckily, she did inherit some of his better traits.

My daughter just turned 20 and is a great student at a top college, and hasn't gotten involved with drugs or alcohol and has never gotten pregnant. So, while it's certainly more difficult to raise a child as a single mother, it can be done successfully and is sometimes better for the child then being constantly exposed to the struggle between a mother and uninterested father while growing up.

[BitterApple]

I think that's where Chelsea is in a no-win situation with Adam and Aubree. It probably would've been best if Adam had just signed over his rights from day one, rather than dabble in fatherhood and pop in and out of Aubree's life at his convenience. Now Aubree is six and unfortunately adores that douche waffle even though he disappoints her time and again. Telling Adam to take a hike would hurt Aubree, but the current status quo also hurts Aubree. Chelsea is going to be in damage control for the next 12 years and she knows it. Cole is great, but at the end of the day Aubree wants her dad. 

I remember Jo was a dick on 16&P, but he's matured into a loving father who's made sacrifices to be with his son. We haven't seen that with Adam. He's still a selfish boy trapped in a balding, roided out body.

[TwirlyGirly]

11 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

My thing is that there are so many factors in teen pregnancy that I just don't quite get why we're looking at Randy as a possible influence. From what we've seen of Randy and his relationship with Chelsea and presumably his other daughters, he just doesn't fit the bill to me for the kind of parenting stereotype that's usually cited as a factor in these things. So why are we blaming Chelsea and her sister's* unwed pregnancies on their having been raised wrong? (Because to me, this is what is all but being said.) Isn't it understood that teen pregnancy was quite common in Chelsea's area? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were several girls in Chelsea's class who were pregnant the same year she was. I wouldn't presume that they were all the result of ineffective parenting. It seems the likelier common denominator for Chelsea and her sister and all the other local girls who had babies before 19 is the local culture. lax sex education and poor access to birth control.

<snip>

I suspect you're correct about the issue being one of poor sex education and access to birth control. I remember a couple of years ago when Adam made a booty call at Chelsea's, and she thought she might be pregnant because her IUD had fallen out. I was shocked that she didn't think to hightail it to the pharmacy immediately to pick up Plan B. Certainly she knew about it? Maybe not.

[ReadMeLattice]

12 hours ago, BitterApple said:

It's not the norm for kids who grow up in Chelsea's income bracket. Out of wedlock teen motherhood isn't ideal under any circumstances, so I think that's why the poster was questioning Randy's effectiveness as a father. Especially when you have not one, but four daughters who go down that path. I think Randy was the opposite of Adam where he wasn't neglectful, just over indulgent. Obviously, if you had to choose between a Randy or an Adam, it would be Randy any day of the week and twice on Sundays, but it's just interesting how his daughters turned out.

It wasn't all four of them. Indulgent parenting isn't associated with a higher risk of teen pregnancy, but ironically, living in a religious and/or politically conservative area is, as is having abstinence-only sex education or being Christian yourself/coming from a very religious family. Chelsea had several friends who had kids before or slightly after she did. I would assume their area, and perhaps their family, was quite religious and conservative. Kids with extremely strict parents are actually more "at risk" of teen pregnancies than kids with very lax parents. 

Out of wedlock as a term has primarily been used historically to shame women and their children. Not men. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Lm2162

[sunsheyen]

The point of this show (supposedly, based on their claims to reduce teen pregnancy) is to emphasize how being a teen mom negatively influences one's (and the kids') lives. I think that to neglect to explore Chelsea's upbringing, of which Randalicious is a major part, and only focus on Adam as the reason for Aubree's future problems and reason for existence is short sighted. 

If we assume this premise, that teen pregnancy is an issue, then we have to examine the things that occured in Chelsea's life that contributed to her becoming a teen mom. We cannot absolve her parents from this fully. Randy likes drama, he likes to be in childish bullshit (social media), and he seems to enjoy engaging in childish behaviors. Yes, Adumb is a pos. But Randy's checkbook and willingness to shit talk Adam is indicative of the mentality Chelsea was shown. Randy has more education and money, but he is just as much an idiot in many ways as Aubree's dad. Let's not forget that in addition to the twitter wars, he is just as willing to sit on tv, year after year, and create a video history to show his granddaughter immaturity and willingness to contribute to ineffective coparenting. 

tl:dr if teen pregnancy is "bad" (premise of the show) and we are willing to blame Suzie and Barb, then we should be just as willing to blame Randy who engages in the bullshit (unlike Jo, Maci, or Corey's parents, for example). That doesn't mean Adumb can't grow, but Randy's financial planning and kissing Chelsea's ass doesn't excuse whatever he (and Lois Griffin) did or didn't do to create this storm either. 

[Chicken Wing]

I don't blame Suzy or Barb for Kail or Jenelle's teen pregnancies. But then, I always believed that both Kail and Jenelle got pregnant on purpose, and in that I do somewhat hold Suzy and Barb responsible for providing the unhealthy environment and creating in their daughters the mentality where they would think having a baby at 17 would be a good idea. But when the pregnancy is clearly accidental and unplanned, that's another story. Sure, we can look at the girl's (and the guy's) home life and upbringing, but you could just as easily look at their friendships, their maturity levels, their ethics, the social culture in their community. Some girls have absentee parents who gave them woeful attention and boundaries; some have very attentive parents and were very disciplined. Some were affluent, some were not. Some religious, some not. If 16 & Pregnant has succeeded at anything, it's in showing that teen pregnancy can happen to anyone. It's not some dirty little secret that only happens to certain kinds of teens or teens from a certain kind of life or family or upbringing. And sometimes, yeah, the family life and the parents' involvement specifically is a factor. I just don't think it's so much the issue in Chelsea's case. He had two daughters who had babies as teens -- as did an unusually large number of other teens in their area for some reason -- but his other two did not, the oldest of which we know finished undergraduate studies and works in a professional field. If all four of his daughters became teen moms and subsequent high school dropouts, one after the other, then we can cast a side eye at the parents along with the local culture. But their lives were mixed. That's not enough to point fingers. Statistics show all kinds of factors in teen pregnancy, things that increase the probability that any one girl in this situation will likely become a teen mom, etc. But the hard fact is that some teens choose to have sex and some teens don't use enough precautions and mistakes happen and there isn't always some sociological influence or risk factor behind that decision. Teenagers are, by their nature, irresponsible at heart, no matter who they are or where they came from.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[sunsheyen]

I'm just speaking to the fact that folks want to absolve Randy of any "blame" in Chelsea's upbringing and how she became a teen parent and only want to point to Adam as the problematic factor in the equation. I acknowledge that people of any racial, socioeconomic, etc background become teen parents, but the bottom line is, we look to the way parents raise their kids as to how they turn out. Randy is still on Twitter and the reunion shows acting like a 22 year old. His mentality has had to come in to play somewhere along the line. 

[starfire]

Does anyone know how old Chelsea was when her parents got divorced and who she lived with after the divorce? Thanks!

[Chicken Wing]

I want to say late junior high, early high school? Can't remember who she was living with after.

[shelley1234]

58 minutes ago, sunsheyen said:

I'm just speaking to the fact that folks want to absolve Randy of any "blame" in Chelsea's upbringing and how she became a teen parent and only want to point to Adam as the problematic factor in the equation. I acknowledge that people of any racial, socioeconomic, etc background become teen parents, but the bottom line is, we look to the way parents raise their kids as to how they turn out. Randy is still on Twitter and the reunion shows acting like a 22 year old. His mentality has had to come in to play somewhere along the line. 

I more look at Adam as the problematic factor since they got pregnant.  Chelsea struggled to get her education in order and get on track, but what she didn't struggle at is being a damn good mom to Aubree from basically the moment she was born.  Can't say that for Adam then, anytime in between or now.  

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, sunsheyen said:

I'm just speaking to the fact that folks want to absolve Randy of any "blame" in Chelsea's upbringing and how she became a teen parent and only want to point to Adam as the problematic factor in the equation. I acknowledge that people of any racial, socioeconomic, etc background become teen parents, but the bottom line is, we look to the way parents raise their kids as to how they turn out. Randy is still on Twitter and the reunion shows acting like a 22 year old. His mentality has had to come in to play somewhere along the line. 

I haven't noticed anyone blaming Adam solely for Chelsea getting pregnant.  The  conversation started after a poster blamed Randy for ADAM being a shitty father.

[BitterApple]

I think Chelsea is generally a good mom, but she stands out more than she would otherwise because we're viewing her in comparison to Jenelle and Leah. 

[Katt]

19 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

 

I remember one of her parents' houses had about a dozen crosses on the wall. That was creepy.

Where I live, if you only have about 12 crosses on one wall, you're a heathen and people will be praying for you whether you like it or not. 

Mackenzie from TM3 is a prime example of fire and brimstone gone wrong. Her mother was disappointed TM3 was canceled because, she said, now she won't be able to spread the word of the Lord to a larger audience. I'm pretty sure there aren't many people who DON'T know about the Lord in this here totally third world country. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Katt
Too long

[SPLAIN]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:22 AM, Lm2162 said:

"I just wonder where Randy went wrong" sure seems like a "derogatory" way to talk about children being born outside of legal marriage.

Exactly.

Was Randy supposed to slip on the condom for Adam? Shove an IUD in Chelsea? 

Why blame Randy and not both of Chelsea's parents? What about Adam's parents? Why not put the responsibility squarely where it belongs? On Adam. Randy acting a fool on Twitter has no bearing on Adam choosing to act the way he does. 

7 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

I more look at Adam as the problematic factor since they got pregnant.  Chelsea struggled to get her education in order and get on track, but what she didn't struggle at is being a damn good mom to Aubree from basically the moment she was born.  Can't say that for Adam then, anytime in between or now.  

Thank you for pointing out that Chelsea's pregnancy is a result of the two parents, not due to Randy. Unless he stood there and forced these two to have sex. 

As was mentioned when the topic of Kail's pregnancy was brought up, and there was all this defending of Kail regarding her birth control use, perhaps the birth control used by Chelsea's ONE sister failed when she became pregnant as a teen.  Kail is not the only one who can have the benefit of the doubt around these parts. 

8 hours ago, sunsheyen said:

I'm just speaking to the fact that folks want to absolve Randy of any "blame" in Chelsea's upbringing and how she became a teen parent and only want to point to Adam as the problematic factor in the equation. I acknowledge that people of any racial, socioeconomic, etc background become teen parents, but the bottom line is, we look to the way parents raise their kids as to how they turn out. Randy is still on Twitter and the reunion shows acting like a 22 year old. His mentality has had to come in to play somewhere along the line. 

I read all the posts three times before I decided to respond. No one was absolving Randy as much as it was defending him from the outrageous claim being put on him. Claims were being made without any proof. Reminds me of Javi's games on the show. Throwing out claims regarding Jo and Kail to merely make it stick in the minds of the viewers or as it has been described many times, shit-stirring.

On 6/25/2016 at 8:20 PM, BitterApple said:

 

 

12 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

 

Out of wedlock as a term has primarily been used historically to shame women and their children. Not men. 

 This. The way it was used was to smear Chelsea and absolve Adam of his responsibility. Adding Adam's name later as having a child out of wedlock came after it was pointed out it was smearing Chelsea because the term is only used for females.  There are many terms that were considered "legal terms", but that does not negate the fact they were coined to shame a certain group of people.

 

On 6/25/2016 at 8:20 PM, BitterApple said:

It's not the norm for kids who grow up in Chelsea's income bracket. Out of wedlock teen motherhood isn't ideal under any circumstances, so I think that's why the poster was questioning Randy's effectiveness as a father. Especially when you have not one, but four daughters who go down that path. I think Randy was the opposite of Adam where he wasn't neglectful, just over indulgent. Obviously, if you had to choose between a Randy or an Adam, it would be Randy any day of the week and twice on Sundays, but it's just interesting how his daughters turned out.

I saw lots of girls who came from Chelsea-type homes and income who ended up pregnant. I worked for some time at a private school and public schools. It didn't matter if the girls came from poor households, middle-class or rich households, girls ended up pregnant. In my job, many pregnant teens come through our door. Last year we had more pregnant teens come from middle-class households where the parents were professionals in various fields. Some came from divorced homes. With Chelsea, her thing has been she wants a family. I suspect she misses her parents being a married couple. We see a lot of girls like that at my job. They are seeking that perfect family. It is not a Chelsea thing, plenty of girls are seeking a family with the guys they are dating and now having their babies. 

There are just far too many factors to list as to why teen pregnancies happen. As a teen, I was advised to wait until marriage to have sex. My parents told me over and over. My mother and older sister talked to me about birth control. I had all the information. I was lucky to have not gotten pregnant when I dated my husband because I didn't use birth control all the time. That was my then-husband's fault and my fault, not my parents. 

FYI it was only two daughters who had babies as teens. See what happens when a claim is thrown out. I realize on message boards plenty of rumors are thrown out. But this was not even a rumor. It was just made up. I wonder how it would be to toss out Kail aborted Javi's baby and it is all Suzy's fault because she is an alcoholic.

 

Crosses all over the walls are creepy? Whoa. Don't go to my cousin's house. She has them in her living room. She likes the various styles, the look and it is her decor. She has some pretty ones she picked up in Italy. It may or may not be a religious thing in the Houska house. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by SPLAIN
Adding a sentence to make my comment clear.

[CofCinci]

Even the best of parents can have a shitty child.  Even the shittiest parents can have an awesome child.

[GreatKazu]

On 6/25/2016 at 1:02 PM, Soobs said:

 

I agree that Adam is responsible for his own shitty behavior, not Randy. I think it would be more accurate to say that Randy's behavior as a father might be responsible for Chelsea picking Adam in the first place. I've always wondered about this. Randy seems doting and supportive (maybe too much at times) and Chelsea was so enamored with Adam who was the opposite of that. In my experience young women often chase dudes like Adam when their father has been absent emotionally or physically. The awkward silence that followed Dr. Drew's comment about that issue but regarding Aubrey and Adam, said to me that there is more to this story. I'd love to know what it is, but the narrative of Randy as good dad seems to be the one everyone is interested in supporting at this point. And Chelsea picking Cole seems to support that narrative. Maybe Adam was her bad boy phase and that's simply it.

No parent is perfect. Even I have screwed up as a parent. No one parent has gone through life without making mistakes. 

I think the naarative of Randy being a good dad is simply that Randy, for the most part, is a dad who has done a good job in many respects. 

Does his behavior on Twitter seem questionable? Yes. Is it immature at times? Yes. 

All I can think of is, Randy has had to deal with a lot id Adam's dickish behavior. More than we have read about and watched over the seasons. I'd be a fighting bitch if some asshole treated any of my children the way Adam does. The thing is, Adam is hurting his own daughter. Before it was just Chelsea. It must hurt Randy something fierce to watch all this play out. One way his defenses come into play  is to  jump in on social media. Chelsea does not seem the type to do that (does she?) so Randy feels the need to do so. Daddy protecting his cubs. He needs to back off on social media fights.

Let's not forget, Chelsea has a mom as a parent. 

Chelsea may have been easily influenced by friends when it came to guys as well.

Adam was just the guy who came along, told Chelsea what she wanted to hear, told her he loved her (mind games ya'll) and got her into bed. 

I remember going through the bad boy phase. Oy vey. I came from a very loving and stable home. My parents were thee best!  But damn, something about those bad boys. *shakes head*

Edited June 27, 2016 by GreatKazu

[evilmindatwork]

I really don't think Chelsea picking Adam, during high school, has anything to do with Randy as a parent. I picked all sorts of idiots between the ages of 14-18, and it had absolutely nothing to do with my dad, but because teen-me just had bad taste. I am sure had Chelsea gotten pregnant at age 25, it would have been with someone who wasn't an Adam type. However, high school girls are stupid and she got pregnant with her first boyfriend, and therefore Adam will be in her life for the next few years.  

I am 28 years old, and my high school boyfriend waits tables in a coastal town, and spends most of his time smoking weed and surfing. He's actually a really nice person, unlike Adam, but definitely not someone I'd want to parent or manage a life with. My point is that Aubree's father being an asshole has less to do with her maternal grandfather, and more to do  with the fact that her mother was in her teens when Aubree was conceived. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by evilmindatwork

[Christina87]

41 minutes ago, evilmindatwork said:

I really don't think Chelsea picking Adam during high school has anything to do with Randy as a parent. I picked all sorts of idiots between the ages of 14-18, and it had absolutely nothing to do with my dad, but because teen-me just had bad taste. I am sure had Chelsea gotten pregnant at age 25, it would have been with someone who wasn't an Adam type. However, high school girls are stupid and she got pregnant with her first boyfriend, and therefore Adam will be in her life for the next few years.  

I am 28 years old, and my high school boyfriend waits tables in a coastal town, and spends most of his time smoking weed and surfing. He's actually really nice, unlike Adam, but definitely not someone I'd want to parent with. My point is that Aubree's father being an asshole has less to do with her maternal grandfather, and more to do  with the fact that her mother was in her teens when Aubree was conceived. 

I feel like I could have written this post! I am also 28, and my teen boyfriend also waits tables and participates in questionable pasttimes. He didn't even fit the "bad boy" stereotype, and came from a well-off family. My dad is very much a randy, and gave me plenty of discipline growing up. I just chose this guy because I was a teen and had questionable judgment. It also took me years to let go of the idea that we could be the perfect couple, even though he was so emotionally distant, and frequently ran hot and cold. When I occasionally see him around town, I thank my lucky stars we didn't have a child together!

As an adult, I have never gotten hung up on somebody like that, and all my boyfriends have been respectful, great people who have treated me like gold. I can identify very much with Chelsea in that regard...she made the Adam mistake once, but when she was finally over it, held guys to higher standards. Even though I'm in the camp that thinks she and Cole have no chemistry, at least he is a good person!

[Lemons]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 11:41 AM, Lm2162 said:

It wasn't all four of them. Indulgent parenting isn't associated with a higher risk of teen pregnancy, but ironically, living in a religious and/or politically conservative area is, as is having abstinence-only sex education or being Christian yourself/coming from a very religious family. Chelsea had several friends who had kids before or slightly after she did. I would assume their area, and perhaps their family, was quite religious and conservative. Kids with extremely strict parents are actually more "at risk" of teen pregnancies than kids with very lax parents. 

Out of wedlock as a term has primarily been used historically to shame women and their children. Not men. 

Out of wedlock was not historically used to shame women and children.  People shame women and children.  It's a term to describe unmarried women AND men have a baby.  Only people can take a simple term that describes something and make it ugly. 

It's true that southern states where people are religious and less educated are typically more likely to have kids in their teens.  I don't know anything about where Chelsea is from, but if it's an area where teen pregnancies are common, you would think that the parents would be more aware, education their children, bring them to the doctor for birth control, stress education and after school activities, don't let them come home to an empty house.   

[radishcake]

Guys calling each other out and snippy back & forth exchanges are out of bounds. Posts will be hidden and I suggest if you don't like what someone posts please IGNORE them.

*if you can't find your post it's probably been hidden for 1) fighting with/sniping at other posters 2) your post quoted a post that had been hidden. 

[ghoulina]

22 hours ago, Katt said:

Mackenzie from TM3 is a prime example of fire and brimstone gone wrong. Her mother was disappointed TM3 was canceled because, she said, now she won't be able to spread the word of the Lord to a larger audience. I'm pretty sure there aren't many people who DON'T know about the Lord in this here totally third world country. 

Oh Lord. That woman. She is totally the reason her daughter got pregnant. 

 

And I say this as a Christian, but you cannot preach abstinence only education. You cannot leave some book from the 70s on the female reproductive system on your kid's bed and think that suffices as a safe sex talk. I'd definitely like to know more about the Houska background. I can see them either being the religious type who expected no sex before marriage, or the type who were just too squeamish to talk about it.

That's the major issue here, parents aren't talking to their kids! I don't know if they just expect the schools to do it, and I know schools do provide some education in that arena, but I've read studies that showed teenagers wished their actual parents would talk to them more about sex. That they would be more likely to hold if their parents had shown an interest. I don't care how award it is, you talk about it. In detail. I've seen so many teenagers saying ridiculous things like - "I didn't think I could get pregnant _____" (insert - my first time, if he pulled out, underwater, if I stood up right away, etc. etc.) SOOOO much ignorance. It boggles the mind. My kids (4,6, and 8) recently were talking about babies being born and how they come out of bellies. That was the first time I'd ever really heard any of that talk and I quickly informed them that babies come out of a woman's vagina. They laughed a lot and ran around saying, "Vagina!" all day. My oldest said he was glad he wasn't a girl. But that was only the first of many conversations we're going to have. I felt really awkward telling them about it at first, but as we talked, it became more comfortable. 

Look at Mary, does she seem like the type to have frank, open sex talks? She barely acts like she's out of high school herself! 

[SPLAIN]

7 hours ago, Lemons said:

 I don't know anything about where Chelsea is from, but if it's an area where teen pregnancies are common, you would think that the parents would be more aware, education their children, bring them to the doctor for birth control, stress education and after school activities, don't let them come home to an empty house.   

The same holds for the parents of Adam and all young males.  Who is to say Chelsea's parents didn't do all of this? We are not privy to what happened behind closed doors. Just because a girl becomes pregnant does not mean a parent failed to do their job. I would not assume such a thing. Teens are told about many things growing up. They are told about predators. They are told about the dangers of drugs. They are told not to drink until of legal age. They are told not to smoke or to wait until they are of legal age. They are told they can't drive until they get their permit or license. How many teens follow through?  Teens on this show are notorious for saying in their 16 & Pregnant episode that they didn't think they would get pregnant.  That is how a teen thinks - they think it won't happen to them. That can be said about many things, not just sex. 

We live in a day and age now where it is vital that males use a condom, if not for birth control at least to prevent STDs and the aforementioned virus and other diseases. Even if a girl threw herself at Adam, it is up to him to ensure he is protected at all times. He may think having had a vasectomy was all he needed to do, but he still has the responsibility to wear a condom regardless of whose daughter he is having impulsive sex with at any given time. Where was the responsibility of Adam's parents to ensure their son was not getting or spreading diseases or impregnating teen girls? 

15 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Even the best of parents can have a shitty child.  Even the shittiest parents can have an awesome child.

True. I know plenty of people who fall under both these categories. I personally know a child who is currently at a 4 year university. He entered at the age of 15 (yes, 15). He obtained a full paid scholarship. Want to know what kind of upbringing he had? His mother is a meth user and drinker. She gave birth to five children by three different fathers. His father remarried and had three more children, but only had visitation with his son four times a month. This kid lived with his maternal grandmother for two years before he entered college. Up until then, he lived with his addict mother. 

 

Off-topic was a BET Awards thread made? I can't find any thread for the show. 

Edited June 28, 2016 by SPLAIN

[Lemons]

Adam was a shitty 16 year old so it's not surprising that he would worry about his own pleasure before consequences, no matter what he was taught.  I think to even call him a "bad boy" is under estimating how troubled he was.  I also think it romanticizes it when someone says "oh, she went for the bad boys."  He had a ton of issues and probably some mental health problems as a teen and I can't imagine why Chelsea was attracted to him.  

He might not be husband material but he's improved as a father (not including the tragedy of missing South Dakota's dance of the century). 

[ReadMeLattice]

9 hours ago, Lemons said:

Adam was a shitty 16 year old so it's not surprising that he would worry about his own pleasure before consequences, no matter what he was taught.  I think to even call him a "bad boy" is under estimating how troubled he was.  I also think it romanticizes it when someone says "oh, she went for the bad boys."  He had a ton of issues and probably some mental health problems as a teen and I can't imagine why Chelsea was attracted to him.  

He might not be husband material but he's improved as a father (not including the tragedy of missing South Dakota's dance of the century). 

Maybe she had self esteem issues or "mental health" issues, too. She certainly seemed to. She's not any more responsible for wrapping it up than he is. No more how troubled someone is, no matter the age, no matter the circumstances, a woman doesn't have even a tiny bit more responsibility than a guy when it comes to safe sex, unless she's raping or assaulting him. 

He's still committing crimes and bad mouthing his child's mother, and pretty much ignoring his kid. Not exactly sure how he's improved except for occasionally hanging out with her...?

[ghoulina]

I definitely think Chelsea suffered from terrible self esteem. Adumb was her whole world. When he treated her like garbage, she would cry and cry and could barely seem to function. I can see her falling for the first guy who gave her some attention. I'm glad she's moved past that. She seems a lot more confident and sure of herself now. 

[Lemons]

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I definitely think Chelsea suffered from terrible self esteem. Adumb was her whole world. When he treated her like garbage, she would cry and cry and could barely seem to function. I can see her falling for the first guy who gave her some attention. I'm glad she's moved past that. She seems a lot more confident and sure of herself now. 

Adam was abusive to her and it's pretty sad to think a girl of only 16 would feel so little self esteem that she didn't tell him to get lost. Why didn't she have any self worth?  Given that he was her whole world it's possible that she "forgot" to take her birth control pills.    

[ReadMeLattice]

12 hours ago, Lemons said:

Adam was abusive to her and it's pretty sad to think a girl of only 16 would feel so little self esteem that she didn't tell him to get lost. Why didn't she have any self worth?  Given that he was her whole world it's possible that she "forgot" to take her birth control pills.    

Whoa, I don't want to get into a disagreement, but this kind of makes it sound like it was her fault she was abused. There's any number of reasons someone has mental health or self esteem issues. They are never someone's fault.

He openly joked about not using a condom, so it doesn't matter what she did with her birth control. 

[BitterApple]

13 hours ago, Lemons said:

 Given that he was her whole world it's possible that she "forgot" to take her birth control pills.    

That's what I'm thinking as well. Adam is equally irresponsible for not using a condom. I'd love to know the time line of when Randy and Lois Griffin divorced and he remarried. I know girls who've been in similar situations as Chelsea where they've felt "rejected" when Dad takes up with a new woman and her family. I'm wondering if that's why her self esteem was in the toilet and she clung to a douchebag like Adam. I'm not saying it's Randy's fault, just that oftentimes parents move on from divorce quickly while the kids are still carrying the baggage.

[Rebecca]

The person I've known in my life with the worst self esteem, who has stayed with a guy for a decade (since 17) even though he clearly doesn't want to be with her or even respect her, has parents who have been married for 40+ years. Both of her parents have always been very involved and are what anyone would deem good parents. They are pretty well off as well. She should be the text book case of someone who was abandoned by her father and has "daddy issues" but that never happened. Honestly, she is treated worse than we have seem Chelsea be treated by Adam and is a much bigger doormat than Chelsea ever was. They have no kids even but she takes his cheating, harsh words and lack of respect. It makes no sense, it defies all logic to me. Just like Chelsea trying to stick it out with Adam for so long. I think some people are just like this no matter what their parents did. Somehow self esteem is attached to keeping this one guy...

Btw, I'm pretty sure Chelsea was 13 when her parents divorced.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Rebecca

[ReadMeLattice]

She was 16...I'd actually say that being incredibly insecure and desperate for a guy as ANY 16 year old girl is pretty much par for the course, unfortunately. Cultural context is key, but it's very common for young women to feel or be made to feel this way. 

There's no evidence she personally tried to get pregnant. They didn't use condoms and had drunken teen sex. It was a mutual choice in that sense. 

[GreatKazu]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Whoa, I don't want to get into a disagreement, but this kind of makes it sound like it was her fault she was abused. There's any number of reasons someone has mental health or self esteem issues. They are never someone's fault.

He openly joked about not using a condom, so it doesn't matter what she did with her birth control. 

Agree.

Poor, poor Kail had it rough growing up. She has the excuse of shitty upbringing for her poor choices and forgetting to use or take birth control. Twice! Apparently Chelsea, who had the best upbringing can't have any issues whatsoever. She should have the perfect life ya'll. 

 We do not know what could have affected Chelsea's life or her self-esteem. How some young people deal with change, trauma, or some significant event in their life, affects them in various ways. Maybe Chelsea had something happen to her that made her feel inadequate. There might have been some taunting in school about her looks, maybe her weght, her grades. Maybe Chelsea was affected by different events in her life. The teen years can be a bitch. Chelsea is not the first teen girl to hold on to a guy.

ITA Rebecca.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Lm2162 said:

 

She was 16...I'd actually say that being incredibly insecure and desperate for a guy as ANY 16 year old girl is pretty much par for the course, unfortunately. Cultural context is key, but it's very common for young women to feel or be made to feel this way. 

 

Yup. Even if you have very loving, involved parents - there's cliques at school, and unrealistic expectations from celebrities and the media, body shaming, boys being pigs, etc. I went to the park with my little kids on Sunday and three girls around 12-13 showed up. I was listening to them off and on and there were very obvious Mean Girl dynamics going on. One girl was the clear leader and she often put the other two down, in a "joking" way, but they never did the same to her. At one point they were going on the see-saws, and the "leader" girl remarked that the other girl couldn't ride with her because she (leader) was only 100 lbs and other girl was "probably 150lbs!" That girl was NOT 150lbs. All of them were normally shaped for girls at/around puberty. That crap starts so young and it terrifies me as a mother of a little girl! 

The good thing is, Chelsea still seems to be a little bit needy, but she is light years from where she was back then. I think getting her certification and living on her own for a bit really helped her mature and gain some respect for herself.