S05.E12: .exe

[ElectricBoogaloo]

PENULTIMATE EPISODE!

Quote

As Reese and Shaw race to catch up with Finch, he infiltrates a maximum-security government facility in a desperate mission which could mean the end for not only Samaritan, but for himself and The Machine as well.

Promo:

[DeepRunner]

The above picture of Finch makes him look like something from The Godfather or perhaps Goodfellas. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[SnarkyTart]

Reese and Shaw working together is my second favorite pairing, after Finch and Reese.  So excited!

[TigerLynx]

I always like when Nathan makes an appearance.  Finch and Nathan had a really nice friendship.

Reese and Shaw are physically lethal, but when Finch unleashes his brain, he is very dangerous.

Yes, Fusco is still a bad ass, and a good cop.

The Machine may have Root's voice, but it has Nathan's moral compass.

[AimingforYoko]

Glad Greer's in the historical category, but that was strangely unsatisfying. This sure seemed like a finale. What's left for next week?

[HowdyTV]

'Bout had a heart-attack when Fusco got shot. Yeah Fusco! But what did he do?

[FormerMod-a1]

This was so good.  I am now bracing myself for next week.  Or more acurately, even more so.

[mtlchick]

Thoughts while I was somewhat drunk on lemonade and Bacardi...

So without the machine...Reese would be dead (and he would be a numbered grave instead of Root),  Shaw would still be working with her previous employer, Fusco would have been found out and working as a P.I. (I think), Root would have been a Samaritan operative which several people thought would happen and Finch would not have Grace in his life.  Meanwhile I was like "what happens to BEAR in the alternate reality?"

 

With the machine, Reese is claustrophobic.  Say what?

So the Machine always knew the password and could have activated the virus herself but made sure that choice was left to Finch to decide if he can live with her in his life. And the best to get in touch with her is with a modem that belong to Snowden.  

 

ONE. SHOW. LEFT.  I normally don't get to see the CBS feed in Canada but tonight I did, and my heart is broken once I saw the preview for the finale.  I'm going to need someone to hold me and get me some Ben and Jerry's next week.   All I know is...if Reese doesn't die, I'll be shocked.  Too many anvils to say otherwise.  I'm not sure the same about Finch. 

 

GAH!!!!

[FormerMod-a1]

Any thoughts on the password. "Dashwood", was it?  Finch's real last name? Something else?  

ETA: Geoffrey Dashwood - a sculpture of birds.

[Cranberry]

The last name of a family from Sense and Sensibility, the book Shaw was holding earlier in the episode. Not sure if there's any significance to that.

[janeta]

I thought the password was Barnett's..?  You could tell this ep was thrown together in a bit of a hurry. And i want  to know what the two little air gapped sim PC's are doing; did the Mini Machine ever beat the Mini Samaritan? And can they ever get out into the world? ;-)

Edited June 15, 2016 by janeta

[benteen]

Great episode.  I'm going to miss the hell out of this show when it's gone.  I don't want it to be gone.

I love that the show does stuff like showing what would happen to the team if the Machine had not been around.  It was a cool alternate history and a chance to bring back more former characters and numbers like Jacob Pitts character and Detective Switching to Geico.  It's also a reminder that Team Machine is made up of former government killers, hackers (hacker/assassin like Root) and a corrupt cop.  It was the Machine that saved them all and gave them a chance for redemption.

I admit I was hoping that Carter would show up and save Fusco at the end.  No such luck.  The Machine mentioned that Carter would have lived without it but indicated she still followed a tough road.  My guess is her son might have been killed as his life was in Season 2 from Elias.

I wish Greer had lived long enough to see Samaritan destroyed.  That would have been a truly satisfying moment.  John Nolan was great as always.

Loved seeing Finch out on a mission and Reese and Shaw working together.

One more episode to go!

[TigerLynx]

I forgot to mention, Greer yaking on and on was so annoying.  Yet another villain who doesn't know how to STFU.

[Oloryn]

One odd thing is that that setting off Ice-9 is supposed to kill both Samaritan and the Machine, yet the season opener seems to indicate that the Machine survives.

I was puzzled how, at the end, Finch was able to walk to the Samaritan control point, with people running past him, yet none of them trying to stop him.

[elle]

6 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Any thoughts on the password. "Dashwood", was it?  Finch's real last name? Something else?  

ETA: Geoffrey Dashwood - a scultor of birds.

 

4 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

The last name of a family from Sense & Sensibility, the book Shaw was holding earlier in the episode. Not sure if there's any significance to that.

That was the first thing the name "Dashwood" made me think of too.  

When Finch proposed to Grace, he put the ring in a box that looked liked an Austen book.  I think that book was Sense and Sensibility.

[Cranberry]

4 minutes ago, elle said:

When Finch proposed to Grace, he put the ring in a box that looked liked an Austen book.  I think that book was Sense and Sensibility.

Indeed it was. Good catch!

[kwnyc]

So the penultimate episode was a Bizarro "It's A Wonderful Life." Of course.

Only in this version, George Bailey kills Clarence the Angel (and Potter, so there's that.)

If only Samaritan had had a father like Arthur Claypool, rather than stepfather Greer. And, despite what Greer said, I do not think there are other ASIs on the horizon: how many humans are there who COULD create a Samaritan, Machine or other being like that?

Poor Root dies twice. So sad. I think Shaw WILL make it; Reese will not. I wonder what Fusco did?

I will miss this show so much.

[SunShines]

14 minutes ago, elle said:

 

That was the first thing the name "Dashwood" made me think of too.  

When Finch proposed to Grace, he put the ring in a box that looked liked an Austen book.  I think that book was Sense and Sensibility.

I also thought of Sense and Sensibility. I think the comparison goes deeper than the names of the Miss Dashwoods to the central conflict in that book. Eleanor Dashwood and her reasoned and dispassionate approach and Marianne and her emotional and passionate approach. Cold hard logic versus messy emotions. Sense and Sensibility also posits a middle path--ending with Marianne learning to curb her emotions and Eleanor learning to let her emotions loose. Maybe this is a good sign for the final episode? I hope so.

[TAG42481]

I liked the "What If's", but otherwise it just didn't seem to be nearly as good of an episode as the last two.  Wasn't my cup of tea.

To the last episode we go!

[DeepRunner]

Holy Freaking Cow that was E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T!!!!!!!

* Simulations that showed Finch an alternate timeline. The first thing I thought of was an old TNG episode called Tapestry, where Q showed Picard the timeline of his life if he had made a different decision in a bar fight. The Machine showed Finch how things would have been different if he hadn't pursued making her. Seeing what would have happened to the various team members with shout-outs to Nathan, Carter (it would have been great if Taraji Henson had been available, sitting at her desk as the new Lt. Carter), Cole, Peck, Garrison, with Root as an Operative of Samaritan. And now we know either Harold's real last name (Dashwood) or his affinity for Jane Austen. Or both. Nice subtle play in the subway tunnel with Shaw casually thumbing through Sense and Sensibility. At first, I thought it was a quick nod to the psyches belonging to Root and Shaw, but it was just a well-hidden Easter Egg. FWIW, I will miss the scenes that Harold had with Nathan. Other than John Reese, Nathan was Harold's truest friend

* Adios Greer. Martyr for the Samaritan cause. The only way to make sure your enemy meets his end is if YOU die after HIM. I thought maybe his eyes would bulge and bug out like Ronnie Cox's did in Total Recall when he was in the oxygen-free environment on Mars. Alas, in death as in life, Greer was wrong. Warped in his thinking and beyond fanatic, delusional zeal, his story comes to a suffocating end. I will miss John Nolan as the black-hat character. His nephew is right...Brits make great bad guys

* Kudos to Reese for killing Zachary while saving Shaw. It was a fight between them, which is what I thought it would be, but I was pretty sure Reese was gonna end up "lookin' down the barrel of a hot metal .45". Bonus points, though, for the Willy Wonka reference. Reese's alternate timeline, ending with him in a grave with a marker similar to Root's, was just sad. I'm not sure if I buy the dark side that would have sent Jessica running, but, uh, OK. More likely he would have ended up with Kara Stanton. John Reese has been the muscle of the operation, and when the show takes its bow next week, one of the true good guys will be gone

* Fusco takes out Leroux. Man, Leroux was plenty unlikable. We never saw Fusco pull the trigger though, or take Leroux out to Oyster Bay, where he'd be for a long, long time. I think Fusco's alternate timeline was more of "It's a Wonderful Life," vice young George and Harry Bailey. Reese wasn't there to save Fusco because Finch wasn't there to save Reese. Fusco remained a dirty cop with no redemption. BTW, hey, Shamansky, good to see you again

* Alternate Shaw timeline in glasses, killing Peck. Made to look smart, but still the look of a stone-cold killer. I was sort of wondering if we would see Hersh. That would have been a perfect callback. Shaw, great with a gun. When the phone rang, I wanted Shaw to answer and hear Root's voice. Maybe before the end

* Bear makes an appearance!!! That's it, though, just a cameo for Bear

Down. To. One.

At once exhilarated to see how it ends, and sad that the curtain will drop for the final time. Looking forward to the DVD set with the cast farewells, if they have them.

[llongori]

I suppose it's fitting that Samaritan was responsible for ending Greer.  It would have been more satisfying to see Shaw take him out after all he put her through.  But if she had come face-to-face with him, he probably would have triggered a whole new round of doubts about whether this was real or not.

[elle]

What was all that with Fusco?  Who was the other corrupt-pyscho cop?  Who was he working for?

[Gigi43]

Unless it was it Elias who pulled Fusco from the tunnel and got him and Bear to  the hospital how was the"discovery" so delayed from when Fusco got out. Did Samaritan bury any report of the site and now made it an issue knowing now Fusco is an asset?  

 

The Fusco shooting was quite the emotional roller coaster for me!

 

I knew Greer's end was coming when he started to mention chess. I figured Reese's path had to be death, I did not expect a mention of Jessica being saved. I liked the trade-off aspects of the different paths.

 

This show is so good a character that's been dead since before the first episode, Nathan, is always good to see and is a favorite of mine.

 

The wait until next Tuesday is going to be quite a long week! 

Edited June 15, 2016 by Gigi43
Edited because I noticed I didn't include the very important word "not" after "did"

[Maverick]

 How is Bear still alive?  Apparently he's spent the past week alone in a dark subway tunnel with no food, water or anyone to walk him.  I expect his tweets this week to involve existential comparisons to being a mushroom and Budda's take on not shitting where you sleep.  

[juliet73]

53 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

 

So without the machine...Reese would be dead (and he would be a numbered grave instead of Root),  Shaw would still be working with her previous employer, Fusco would have been found out and working as a P.I. (I think), Root would have been a Samaritan operative which several people thought would happen and Finch would not have Grace in his life.  Meanwhile I was like "what happens to BEAR in the alternate reality?"

 

 

Same as Grace. They never would have met since Reese met/took Bear while he was trying to save Leon.

I hope Fusco kills that guy. Fusco can't let him live knowing that one day (sooner than later), he's going to kill him and his family. 

Greer's dead. His death was kind of anti climatic.

Reese is on "borrowed time" according to the machine. I'm accepting the fact his time will be up next week.  I do hope his life flashes before his eyes and we get to see Carter again...at least in some form. I think Finch might not be safe either.  The machine started with Finch and Reese to save the world...the three of them might go out together too.

Control needs to come in and save the day!

[TAG42481]

Everybody is assuming Greer is dead.  We saw him collapse and pass out.  I'm not convinced that he's necessarily dead.  Don't forget what show we're watching here.  I'm taking nothing for granted with that for the finale.

[bros402]

Great episode. I want the series finale now and I don't want it at the same time, because then the series is over.

 

Loved tonight's episode. Dark Finch is a bit frightening.

[thuganomics85]

The "What if?" simulations were a nice way to bring back even more past numbers and characters from former episodes.  Enjoyed seeing Peck (Jason Pitts!), Szymanski (Geico guy!), and Senator Garrison (John Fucking Doman!) again.  And seeing where everyone would have likely ended up without The Machine was expected, but fits their characters.  Finch would be a successful alongside Ingram (yay, for a final Nathan appearance!), but will likely never find Grace or even love.  Fusco would be exposed as a corrupt cop and likely spend the rest of his life as a disgraced P.I. (oh, and Carter becomes the chief.)  Shaw continues to work for the CIA and to kill without thought.  Root joins Team Samaritan.  And Reese?  Ends up dying. Yep, that was kind of figured would happen to these guys, if Finch never created The Machine.

Greer's likely death was anti-climatic, although I guess it would be fitting if he died as one of Samaritan's pawn.  Despite all that loyalty, he just doesn't matter to Samaritan.  But I just couldn't get the point.  Why wasn't Greer able to just, I don't know, walk out of the room and then let all the air drain out?  Was there a particular reason he had to be in there with Finch?  I was so confused about that.

Loved Reese and Shaw teaming up and just taking out a bunch of fools.  Sometimes, it's just fun watching the badasses do what they do best.  And Reese's Willy Wonka reference has got to be the craziest, out of left field thing, Reese has ever said.

Noticed Greer's lackey, Travers/Michael Potts, wasn't seen during all the big fights.  I wonder what he's up too.

Got worried for Fusco, because it would be heart-wrenching for him to die right before the grand finale, but I'm glad he managed to get by.  He really knows how to keep his head above water.  I can't wait to see what part he will play in the series finale. 

Crazy that Finch actually went through with it and uploaded the virus.  Now, both The Machine and Samaritan are gone.  Where is this going to go, next?  The finale should be insane!

[Agent Dark]

2 hours ago, Oloryn said:

One odd thing is that that setting off Ice-9 is supposed to kill both Samaritan and the Machine, yet the season opener seems to indicate that the Machine survives.

There are still the two mini-versions of both ASI's running on those computers in the Faraday cage at the subway; the ICE_9 virus wouldn't be able to destroy them.  Presumably that is why there is a 'last stand' taking place there in the finale next week, judging by the promo.

 

I think this was almost the perfect penultimate episode.  Show us just how different things would have been, had the central premise of the show not been there.  Plus seeing Nathan, Cole (Shaw's partner) and Szymanski (the Organised Crime detective from S1/2, who was buddies with Carter and was eventually taken out by HR) back in the alternate timeline were great throwbacks to earlier days.  I think the alternate playouts were pretty much spot on too - without either a mission or Jessica, I think Reese was always going to end up in the ground and Root was always going to find purpose in a higher being. 

 

"Dashwood" is the Sense and Sensibility reference (given that Shaw was holding that book in Root's room at the subway), but I wonder if that was a sneaky hint at Harold's real name?  He proposed to Grace with the ring inside a copy of that book in the flashbacks in Season 2's 'Zero Day', and earlier in that very same episode there was a flashback to Nathan where he reveals his 'ring inside the book' plan to propose to Grace and confesses he doesn't want to marry under a pseudonym.  Harold Finch is perhaps really Harold Dashwood?

 

RootMachine drive Harold around in the Tesla was fun :)  Amy Acker voice for GPS needs to be a thing :D  Also, Reese with the dead serious Willy Wonka reference to Shaw's plan at the recycling factory was gold.  So was Shaw's "oh, we're just looking for some bad guys. [shoots the Samaritan operative] Found one."

While I would have preferred Shaw to get vengeance on Greer, I think it was a fitting end for him from his point of view.  He lures Finch in, and then lets Samaritan take them both out thus ensuring that Samaritan has no-one left that could potentially stop it.  The philosophical back and forth between him and Finch was also great stuff - is Humanity better off with a superior intelligence guiding its evolution or should we be left to our own fate?  I don't really know which side I fall on there.  It's easy to say 'we should make our own destiny' like Harold, but what if the only path that leads to is annihilation at our own hands?  Humans are pretty good at killing each other after all, and we've got more than enough weapons in the world to do it.  If Samaritan is what it takes to get us past The Great Filter, is that really a bad thing?  I think I know what my answer is though - trust in The Machine :) 

[yellowfred]

So, I really enjoyed the alternative timeline scenes, both for the scenes themselves and for the fact that the Machine wrote her own version of "It's a Wonderful Life" with herself as George Bailey and then read it for Finch.  Also, they managed to bring back a legitimately impressive number of past guest stars.

I liked the detail (well, "liked," but in a sad way) that saving Jessica wasn't enough to permanently keep John away from the place he was in at the beginning of the Pilot.  Also, I think his grave number was supposed to be the same as the date that he first found out about the Machine, which makes for a cool parallel to Root's.

I thought it was interesting that Fusco, Root, and Shaw were all objectively in better places (Root's alive, Shaw isn't in hiding or recovering from several months of psychological torture, and Fusco's not in constant danger of being murdered by Samaritan agents), but never really evolved as people from who they were when we first met them.  Like, Fusco went from being a dirty cop to being a PI, but it's not like he shows anything like remorse for what he did.  Without Harold and the Machine's intervention, Root never stopped thinking of humanity as "bad code."  Without being burned by them and then working the numbers, Shaw's still fine working/killing indiscriminately for the ISA.

While I get that neither of them were particularly surprising outcomes for either Finch or the audience, I kind of wish that alt!Shaw still in the ISA and alt!Root working for Samaritan had gotten even half the exposition that alt!Fusco being a PI got.  That being said, I kind of loved the fact that Root ended up working for Samaritan, mostly because I can't imagine any version of her story where there's an ASI out there somewhere and she doesn't find out about it and find a way to work for it.  

On a side note, I like to imagine that alt!Root is about a week away from killing alt!Greer and taking his place (Samaritan would, of course, be totally cool with that).

As for the actual timeline stuff, I'm a little conflicted at the moment.  Like, I loved seeing John and Shaw working together and dark!Harold continues to be awesome.  I think the Machine has been sounding more like Root ever since Harold said he approved of that choice, which seems fitting for how much weight the Machine (and Root, for that matter) puts on things being Harold's decision.  Greer going out like a fanatical idiot felt almost fittingly anti-climactic.  Also, I may have laughed more than I should have at Greer's explanation that Samaritan wants the Machine to be it's "companion."  I know it would have been tonally inappropriate, but I really wanted Harold to say something along the lines of "Samaritan really isn't her type."

I also kind of love the idea that Harold's actual last name is "Dashwood."  It gives so much more meaning to the way he proposed to Grace.

Where I feel a bit conflicted is the whole "sacrificing the Machine to stop Samaritan" thing.  While I think it's fitting, in a lot of ways, for that to be the endgame of this particular conflict, it also feels a little bit repetitive, since we sort of just had the Machine sacrificing Herself in the penultimate episode of last season (while I know a lot of emphasis was put on it being Harold's choice, the Machine seemed happy with his decision).  On the one hand, I'm kind of hoping that they try to find a way to save the Machine next episode (which would make sense, especially if the voice over in the first episode was the Machine talking to Herself after coming back online with no memories).  On the other hand, that's pretty much exactly what they did in last year's finale.

Plus, on a more personal level, this being the solution means that Root's death uncomplicated things, which makes it sad in a way that it wasn't before.  Like, for John, Shaw, Fusco, and (to a lesser degree) Harold, the Machine is a tool.  She allows them to save people, She's their best way of fighting Samaritan, but, other than Harold, they don't seem to think of the Machine as being alive or being a person in Her own right.  Even Harold, while he does see the Machine as being alive, fundamentally doesn't trust Her.  Root, on the other hand, loved the Machine.  Not even just in a "the Machine is her God" kind of way, either.  The Machine was basically her best friend and, arguably, the love of her life (certainly in the top two).  So, at this point, if Finch goes back to the team and tells them what he's done, the only person who might have tried to fight him on it already died buying him the chance to do it.  

Also, on an even more selfish level, I'm sad that we'll never get to see a scene of Root and Harold discussing this as a strategy, because I think it would have been amazing.  Just imagine the look in Root's eyes when she realized it was their best/only option.  Like, I can only vaguely conceive of what that scene would look like, and it still almost makes me cry.  

[wilnil]

3 hours ago, DeepRunner said:

I'm not sure if I buy the dark side that would have sent Jessica running, but, uh, OK. More likely he would have ended up with Kara Stanton.

They didn't say it outright, but I got the feeling that Reese killed Peter in the alternate timeline too (I never thought Peter was one of the Americans in the Mexican prison), and that's the darkness Jessica saw.

[immortalfrieza]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Greer's likely death was anti-climatic, although I guess it would be fitting if he died as one of Samaritan's pawn.  Despite all that loyalty, he just doesn't matter to Samaritan.  But I just couldn't get the point.  Why wasn't Greer able to just, I don't know, walk out of the room and then let all the air drain out?  Was there a particular reason he had to be in there with Finch?  I was so confused about that.

Or Greer could have just pulled out a gun and shot Finch. It's the same issue the show has always had, the only way the plot can be moved along is to make the characters into total idiots at various times and do unnecessarily risky and idiotic stuff because making everybody reasonably intelligent and making the plot work is beyond the writers.

Edited June 15, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[Agent Dark]

1 hour ago, immortalfrieza said:

Or Greer could have just pulled out a gun and shot Finch. It's the same issue the show has always had, the only way the plot can be moved along is to make the characters into total idiots at various times and do unnecessarily risky and idiotic stuff because making everybody reasonably intelligent and making the plot work is beyond the writers.

I don't think of that as all.  Greer was always, totally subservient to Samaritan - that was his entire philosophy.  Remember his very first words when Samaritan came online in the S3 finale?  Samaritan asked what are his [Greer's] commands, and Greer corrected him by saying "no, what are your commands for us?"  After living through The Blitz in WW2, then watching as corruption spread through MI6 during The Cold War, Greer ended up with a philosophy very similar to Root's - humanity sucks.   But unlike Root, Greer never got the benevolent guidance of The Machine just the cold hard logic that Samaritan offered.  It's why the alternate timeline of Root working for Samaritan works so well imo - she and Greer basically had the same view.

So Greer dying at Samaritan's hand is not a bad thing for him.  As far as he's concerned, he died knowing Samaritan was victorious and that's all that mattered to him.  He never even considered that his life mattered, except in the cause of Samaritan.

[StarBrand]

Agent Dark-I could quote your whole post, because that's exactly what I thought...

[StarBrand]

When I heard about the "timeline where Finch doesn't create the Machine" plot, I was concerned, this being the next-to-last episode, that it would take up too much of it. As it turns out, my fears were unfounded. Pretty much all versions of Team Machine played out like I expected-Fusco never redeemed himself, and ratted on HR to save his own ass, Shaw was still working for Control, and giving Cole a lecture on not questioning things (did NOT expect him showing up here), Finch and Nathan alive and well, but in Finch's case, somewhat dissatisfied. I was a bit surprised by Reese's story, that Jessica became unnerved by Reese's dark side, and left him, and that he never recovered. And Root of course (nice to see Amy Acker onscreen again, if only for a minute) never changed at all-still referring to humanity as "bad code" and playing assassin for Greer and Samaritan. No matter what AI was created, Root would have ended up working for it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

How is Bear still alive?  Apparently he's spent the past week alone in a dark subway tunnel with no food, water or anyone to walk him.  I expect his tweets this week to involve existential comparisons to being a mushroom and Budda's take on not shitting where you sleep.  

That was my only concern when Reese and Shaw returned to the subway and said that Harold hadn't been seen for a week. They were off in DC so poor Bear was just hanging out by himself without any food, water, or companionship for an entire week? I know you guys want to save the world and all, but dude! At least call Leon and have him go hang out with Bear for a few hours every day and take him for walks.

When Fusco got shot, I yelled, "NOOOOOOO!" But then I had to laugh when he said that instead of running his mouth, the other guy should have checked to see if he was wearing a vest. Then I thought ooh, that guy has no idea what he's in for because Fusco is going to kick his ass! My guess is that the show will have Lionel spare his life to show how far he's come, but I'm all for him killing the guy, if not for himself then to protect his son.

Loved how single-minded Harold was in his mission. I was surprised when he shot the French guy (I thought damn, Harold has totally gone to the dark side!) but then it made sense when Harold said it was just ketamine.

[shura]

Cool, another one of those bullet-proof vests that exist only on TV. You can't just get up and dance as if nothing happened when you are shot wearing your vest. That's not how it works, there are still the laws of physics.

3 hours ago, Agent Dark said:

I don't think of that as all.  Greer was always, totally subservient to Samaritan - that was his entire philosophy.  Remember his very first words when Samaritan came online in the S3 finale?  Samaritan asked what are his [Greer's] commands, and Greer corrected him by saying "no, what are your commands for us?"  After living through The Blitz in WW2, then watching as corruption spread through MI6 during The Cold War, Greer ended up with a philosophy very similar to Root's - humanity sucks.   But unlike Root, Greer never got the benevolent guidance of The Machine just the cold hard logic that Samaritan offered.  It's why the alternate timeline of Root working for Samaritan works so well imo - she and Greer basically had the same view.

So Greer dying at Samaritan's hand is not a bad thing for him.  As far as he's concerned, he died knowing Samaritan was victorious and that's all that mattered to him.  He never even considered that his life mattered, except in the cause of Samaritan.

Still, was a a purpose to Greer dying like that? Just because he is not needed and is content with that, shouldn't there be a reason Samaritan removed him? And in this specific manner?

6 hours ago, Agent Dark said:

The philosophical back and forth between him and Finch was also great stuff - is Humanity better off with a superior intelligence guiding its evolution or should we be left to our own fate?  I don't really know which side I fall on there.  It's easy to say 'we should make our own destiny' like Harold, but what if the only path that leads to is annihilation at our own hands?  Humans are pretty good at killing each other after all, and we've got more than enough weapons in the world to do it.  If Samaritan is what it takes to get us past The Great Filter, is that really a bad thing?

See, Humanity only matters when your own life and happiness are not threatened. When your superior intelligence rules that Humanity will be better off with you out of the picture, I don't think you will be happy about that, your devotion to the interests of Humanity notwithstanding.

[Good Queen Jane]

9 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I forgot to mention, Greer yaking on and on was so annoying.  Yet another villain who doesn't know how to STFU

That's why he collapsed before Harold: he used up all his oxygen spouting out his evil plan!

[benteen]

5 hours ago, wilnil said:

They didn't say it outright, but I got the feeling that Reese killed Peter in the alternate timeline too (I never thought Peter was one of the Americans in the Mexican prison), and that's the darkness Jessica saw.

Yeah, to me it never made sense for Regular Universe Reese not to have killed Peter considering the dark path he was on before the Machine found it.

Like I mentioned before, the Machine really was redemption for this collection of killers, hackers and corrupt cops.

[snowwhyte]

I was also worried about Bear. Did they leave him in the subway? If they all get killed, does anyone even know where he is? Does Fusco know about the subway hide out? 

[mtlchick]

14 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

I was also worried about Bear. Did they leave him in the subway? If they all get killed, does anyone even know where he is? Does Fusco know about the subway hide out? 

I figured that once Reese finally clued Fusco in on things, he was told everything including their hideout. 

[kwnyc]

I also figured Harold was thoughtful (and smart) enough to set up a feeding system/provide fresh water.

(Side note...can you imagine hiring a dog walker for Bear? "Instructions: go to the candy machine at xxx, insert money (we will reimburse you) and you will find the dog in the abandoned subway station. He responds to commands in Dutch. List provided."

[MrPissyPuppy]

Yeah, I'm going to have to fanwank that there's some sort of automatic feeder/water for Bear that Finch set up that's a bit higher tech than those available at PetSmartCo.   Because no matter how shitty I feel (or whether or not I'm off saving the world from evil AIs and their minions), I still make sure my dog(s) are fed/watered.  

[Gimmick Genius]

Yes, when Fusco jumped up with his magical - "Ha! You never checked me for a vest!" it took me out of the scene. The dude had knocked him out, then wrestled his inert bulk in to the back of a car and handcuffed him... but never noticed the vest? What did he grab and lift Fusco by? Body armor isn't just like a thin T-shirt.

[Coxfires]

Yeah, it is a bit too bad that Fusco got up so quickly, because I found that it was otherwise a very nice call back to Reese and Fusco Pilot scene "when you put someone on the back of your car, you've got to search them properly"...although unlikely, Fusco pulling the pin out of a grenade would have made me ecstatic. Anyway, the progression of Lionel Fusco over the years in POI is one of the best character development I've had the chance to see.

[yellowfred]

6 hours ago, wilnil said:

They didn't say it outright, but I got the feeling that Reese killed Peter in the alternate timeline too (I never thought Peter was one of the Americans in the Mexican prison), and that's the darkness Jessica saw.

I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Reese did kill Jessica's husband.  The guy in the Mexican prison was a US Marshall that had been stalking his (ex?) wife, which got him thinking about that time he killed Jessica's husband.  

Also, I kind of wonder if Samaritan was just done with Greer and that whole spectacle was more for the Machine.  A demonstration of Samaritan's ability to inspire loyalty, maybe?  It was surprisingly eager to get the Machine to join it, maybe killing one of it's own top agents is some kind of ASI bonding ritual that Samaritan just invented.

[basiltherat]

Well, Fusco is a rather barrel-chested guy, so the bad guy couldn't tell (or couldn't imagine) if he had a vest.

I was really pleased by the Alternate Scenarios, which were so much like the Flash Sideways on Lost.  A lot of our guys were alive, but were not doing good things..

Seconding everyone's concern for Bear re food and water.  Also, where does he "do his business"??  (not that subways don't smell like that anyway!)  I'm wondering if things will go full circle like on Lost, with Bear comforting the dying hero (Reese/Jack).

Nice to see some old acquaintances, but I'm also wondering did we find out if Control was killed, since we saw the guy who ratted her out working for Pruneface.

I was wondering about the significance of "Dashwood" but you answered that.  Last week, there was a "Thornhill' corporation that sent Shaw undercover -- I know Thornhill was the guy Cary Grant was mistaken for in "North by Northwest."

[Princess Lucky]

11 hours ago, Maverick said:

 How is Bear still alive?  Apparently he's spent the past week alone in a dark subway tunnel with no food, water or anyone to walk him.  I expect his tweets this week to involve existential comparisons to being a mushroom and Budda's take on not shitting where you sleep.  

You KNOW Team Machine has Bear-related safeguards in place for the eventuality that every single one of them dies. Maybe if one of them doesn't check in Bear is freed. And food/water are dispensed regularly, I'm sure. I'm not worried about Bear.

I am, however, worried about everyone else.

5 hours ago, Agent Dark said:

I don't think of that as all.  Greer was always, totally subservient to Samaritan - that was his entire philosophy.  Remember his very first words when Samaritan came online in the S3 finale?  Samaritan asked what are his [Greer's] commands, and Greer corrected him by saying "no, what are your commands for us?"  After living through The Blitz in WW2, then watching as corruption spread through MI6 during The Cold War, Greer ended up with a philosophy very similar to Root's - humanity sucks.   But unlike Root, Greer never got the benevolent guidance of The Machine just the cold hard logic that Samaritan offered.  It's why the alternate timeline of Root working for Samaritan works so well imo - she and Greer basically had the same view.

So Greer dying at Samaritan's hand is not a bad thing for him.  As far as he's concerned, he died knowing Samaritan was victorious and that's all that mattered to him.  He never even considered that his life mattered, except in the cause of Samaritan.

I totally agree.

There was a parallel here. The Machine could have taken action, since she knew Finch's password, but she chose to let Finch make that decision. Similarly, Greer could have taken action, since I'm assuming he had a gun, but he chose to let Samaritan make that decision.

Samaritan is used to people serving it, and it's also unshackled by any limitations regarding humanity and not hurting us/putting us first. The Machine, on the other hand, has her limits, plus she has 'assets' and Dadmin who (for lack of a better phrase) tells her what to do. Those AIs are very different. I wonder what Samaritan might have done if Greer had ever displayed a sense of autonomy. Taken him out, probably. Our Machine and Greer are more alike than I imagined. Both willing to sacrifice themselves, if they can take the 'bad guy' (from their POV) with them.

Greer is kinda noble, I won't lie. If you look at the whole thing from an outside perspective (i.e. not as part of humanity but conceptually) Samaritan isn't really wrong. It's weeding out humans like humans might control an animal population. Who's to say that's any different? I almost admire Greer for being able to see past his own nature and accept how truly expendable he is, how truly expendable and unimportant we all are.

But then, there's art and love and friendship etc etc. Which is also noble, I guess. Valuing those unique aspects of humanity. Eh.

Re; the What Ifs, I loved seeing Peck and Cole, though their appearances were way too brief, and I LOVED seeing Nathan again. Fortunately his scene was longer. Brett Cullen really crafted a great character in a handful of appearances. I'm glad we got to say goodbye to him again. But that was it. I can't say I got any particular insight from those scenarios. Reese's seemed too severe (why wouldn't he go back to the CIA or government work after Jessica rebuffed him? Then again, he has often mentioned suicidal tendencies.) and Root's too predictable (in that it was perfect, because she could have been Samaritan's number one fangirl) but other than that, eh.

One more episode.

I expect Reese to die, and I just want it to be glorious. He has such a good heart and he's been through so much pain. I hope he'll go out a hero, and he'll finally find peace.

[Bobbin]

The Jane Austen connection between "Dashwood" and Finch and the Machine vs. Samaritan is pretty darn deep and sophisticated for a TV series. Bravo! There's hope after all for the "Vast Wasteland," notorious for aiming at the lowest common denominator.

What's the next project for this production team?