S08.E10: Unhappy Holidays

[zoeysmom]

Vulture recap-guest writer.  http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/real-housewives-of-new-york-city-recap-season-8-episode-10.html

[parisprincess]

I hope that, at the reunion, Luann warns the other women not to let Bethenny near their men since she had no problem stealing one of her best friends' husbands.  Therefore, she'd have no qualms about going after theirs since none of them are really friends anyway (except the one who has her lips firmly planted on Bethenny's ass).

[Umbelina]

http://bravowhore.com/RHONY

This is the best site for ratings, it has easy to read yearly charts, and it covers all the Bravo shows (you can see the others by clicking on the links at the left side of the page.)  NY's ratings are rising pretty fast this year.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Umbelina

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

People have not been invited on trips before, though. Ramona didn't invite Jill to Scary Island. Heather didn't bring Ramona to London.

Jill was invited but Yes, Heather didn't invite Ramona but she also didn't freeze Ramona out during filming. So far this season, Bethenny, either directly or indirectly through production, has frozen Sonja out of Dorinda's sleepover, refused to film with her at Ramona's party and

Spoiler

will now refuse to invite her on the big cast trip. No one has ever been frozen out of the big cast trip before on any HW show across the entire franchise.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Bethenny is a fool and thinks the rest of us are stupid that we won't find this out.  I don't get why Andy likes her at all, what is she doing, sucking his dick?  I can't get why anybody with a brain would like Bethenny.  As for all her "hard work," okay, I'll give her some of that, but about 60% of that was pure luck, had she not been on Housewives, she still would be standing in Food Emporium selling her wares to an empty supermarket.

Bethenny is a "Do as I say, Not as I do" person. She really believes the rules she applies to everyone else don't apply to her. I agree, she would not have had the business success she had if she wasn't on the show to begin with.

[weaver]

1 hour ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

This. This. This! 

Yet she deflects the secrecy about who she is dating on to Luann with the excuse no one wants to tell Luann who they are dating. Nice try Beth. Why does she say this freakin' bullshit on camera when it's false? She was deflecting that she was dating a married man. 

She drives me CRAZY. The very first time in S1 when she said she was poor, didn't have parents and Jill referred to her as an orphan I was like huh? I happened to know very well who her (wealthy, connected) father and father and stepfather were prior to the show so I thru her, IMMEDIATELY. She may have had a 'hard' (read the book Etched in Sand if you want to know what a hard home life is) home life but poor, no parents, and orphan were fucking bullshit from the get go. No surprise to me she keeps it up and it's worse now  that she has more money. It is who she is, always was and without a lot of intensive off camera therapy it is who she will be forever. 

I still want to know what she inherited from her father's estate. And when she'll bring her mother, and their reconciliation on camera. Oooh trust me, that's coming prob next season because she is death spiraling w/fans this season. 

She was worth $22 million BEFORE the SG contract.  Daddy must have been very generous.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/bethenny-frankel-divorce-documents-bravo-luxury-lifestyle-net-worth/

[ElDosEquis]

11 hours ago, Forcereals said:

My IQ goes down when Jules comes on screen.  She seems nice, but I feel like she's dumber than a rock and doesn't add anything.  I like Dorinda, but I think she's a off--they hightailed it out, not hijacked--I think she's the last person to "save Sonja's feelings," she's just as mental.  Although everyone needs to stop sending textes/Texas...It's TEXTS!

Usually I think Bethenny needs to shut up, and I don't buy into the Carole "I'm just a girl in the city act," (maybe 20 years ago-please also stop with the chokers, 1995 called...) 

You do know that it wouldn't surprise me if she has some kind of Melisandre thing going with those chokers....

[Ellee]

25 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Jill was invited but Yes, Heather didn't invite Ramona but she also didn't freeze Ramona out during filming. So far this season, Bethenny, either directly or indirectly through production, has frozen Sonja out of Dorinda's sleepover, refused to film with her at Ramona's party and

  Reveal hidden contents

will now refuse to invite her on the big cast trip. No one has ever been frozen out of the big cast trip before on any HW show across the entire franchise.

Bethenny is a "Do as I say, Not as I do" person. She really believes the rules she applies to everyone else don't apply to her. I agree, she would not have had the business success she had if she wasn't on the show to begin with.

Didn't JKL start the freeze out in Season 3?  For some reason I thought that that was another idea Jill acting as the director/producer, thought of.   I could be wrong. 

I've also always felt that Bethenny's assistant, Julie, was extremely instrumental in Bethenny's success.  I'd love to hear her recounting the years though I'm sure that won't happen..

[Avaleigh]

14 hours ago, 100PercentPain said:

Damnit Beth and Carole. I can't stand Lu and y'all have me siding with her. Damn you both. That morning after stuff was straight outta the middle school mean girl playbook. 

The NY ladies have never quite pushed my buttons in the way that some of the BH, ATL, and OC women have. Even when they're acting like jerks, save Aviva and Jill, they all bring (or have brought) something to the table that I enjoy even when I'm irritated and frustrated with them. 

These past two episodes---holy fucking shit, they all suck on some level but if I have to pick a team I guess I found Luann and Jules to be the least offensive with Dorinda just barely landing the bronze. 

I used to love Carole and Bethenny and now I'm starting to forget why I ever liked them. I hope they're fucking embarrassed right now. 100% Pain, I am right there with you in being pissed at these bitches for making me feel ridiculously sorry for Luann. If this had been real life as opposed to women filming a show because it's their job, Luann would have gone home. She knew though that they'd win if she fled, so she decided to stay and deal even though the shit they were flinging was ridiculously over the top, hurtful, mean, and not even entirely accurate. 

Bethenny full admits that she would de-friend anyone who spoke to her the way that she spoke to Luann and she's giggling like an idiot like her behavior is somehow cute, acceptable, or understandable. Oh, and Dorinda shouldn't go into the hospitality business because Bethenny can't keep herself from acting like an ass at Dorinda's events? What the hell is wrong with this woman?

I'm still astounded at how rude Carole and Bethenny were. They clearly wanted to be anywhere but there and only showed up because it's there job. It was the same when they went to Jules's place.They come in, they act clique-ish, they say a few rude things, they indicate how over it and above it they are, and then they leave like they can't get away fast enough and make it seem like they've done someone a favor by bothering to show.

That apology over the SG margarita was cringeworthy. The power that Bethenny has over these women couldn't be more obvious. Luann is playing nice because she knows she needs the job. The hugs that she gave Bethenny and Carole reeked of desperation.

Sonja's is panicked because she knows Bethenny wants to freeze her out and she has little going for her other than the show. Sonja knows that she can't go off on Bethenny, so she's screaming at Luann and Dorinda even though she knows that Bethenny is the real reason that she's walking on rotten ice.

A small but super telling example to me was Ramona saying that Bethenny and Carole's half assed goodbye was lovely and that Luann was deliberately only seeing something negative. Ramona was clearly trying to score points with Bethenny. 

Dorinda was wrong to not invite Sonja IMO and she's full of shit. Oh and Ramona would have been EPICALLY pissed if she'd been the one to not be invited to Dorinda's. She would have made a federal case out of it. Frankly, I think that Sonja would have been more fun than Bethenny and Carole were.

The whole "man stealing" conversation was sad. Like a man is some inanimate object that can be stolen off of a shelf. I find it disgusting and I honestly thought Bethenny and Carole were more intelligent than that.

What's the worst part about all of this? We all know damned well that Satan Andy is not going to ask Bethenny and Carole the tough questions at the reunion and it's the others who are going to be in the hot seat. Fuck, it's more annoying than Brandi being given a platform to spew about the women when she isn't even on the freaking show anymore. 

[zoeysmom]

7 minutes ago, weaver said:

She was worth $22 million BEFORE the SG contract.  Daddy must have been very generous.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/bethenny-frankel-divorce-documents-bravo-luxury-lifestyle-net-worth/

I believe the $22 million was the value she put on her Skinnygirl business and branding business.  The article breaks down the actual cash and accounts. I was under the impression that Bobby Frankel left the bulk of his estate to his stable and its employees.  It is a question that should definitely be asked of Bethenny because it seems ludicrous she keeps talking about her nothing to millions based on her hard work alone.

[SCS]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Boy, Sonja is really tearing into Ramona and even Luann on her blog. 

It's sad to see Sonja and Ramona hating each other, of all the "friends" on these shows, I thought these two were real.

 

Heh. And Ramona's blog is on Lu for everything. Clearly, Moaner has never really gotten over all the slights and snide remarks Lu 's directed at her over the seasons because, well, sample:

Quote

 

A year ago I was speaking to a man at the bar of a restaurant in NYC. He later came to the table and sat next to me conversing with me exclusively for an hour. When I came back from the ladies' room, Luann was snuggled up to him and refused to move. I just climbed over the booth and pushed her away, LOL. Sonja has tons  of stories of how Luann would be with the men Sonja was with...

As far as Luann goes, everyone is open game, whether they are married or not. Luann has kissed married men, and everyone has witnessed this. The most notorious was when she was still married and attended the Rome wedding in Southampton, which was reported byNew York Magazine. She kissed a woman's husband in front of his wife and actually said to the wife,  "Get over it " when the wife asked what Luann was doing. Bethenny had a date at the wedding. We told Luann he was wealthy and next thing you know she was all over him and grabbing his crotch on the dance floor.

 

 

How I wish Moaner would say to Lu, "You, like, go after everyone's man and you, like, make yourself available so of course they respond." And Lu would reply, "Well, Mario certainly did. And laughed about you after banging the hell out of me."

[msblossom]

Why does everyone put up with Bethenny's shit? Dorinda, Bethenny is not your friend. She wreaks havoc in your home, makes everyone uncomfortable, and then slinks out the next morning with her clown, I mean Carole/sidekick, without so much as a goodbye or thank you, until she's caught/called out by Lu, and then gives some cock and bull story about loading up the car first. And Carole isn't your friend either, she's weak and follows Bethenny's lead. You should've invited everyone and if Bethenny and Carole didn't show, so be it. 

[weaver]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I believe the $22 million was the value she put on her Skinnygirl business and branding business.  The article breaks down the actual cash and accounts. I was under the impression that Bobby Frankel left the bulk of his estate to his stable and its employees.  It is a question that should definitely be asked of Bethenny because it seems ludicrous she keeps talking about her nothing to millions based on her hard work alone.

Agree, its possible that is what the $22mil was.  We'll never know.  

[ElDosEquis]

5 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

B has never looked more unhinged than walking in to the house after handing the driver the glass (a gift, mind you)  like it was a used Kleenex. She looked bat shit. High heeled ankle wobbling track shoes baggy ass unmatched pjs biker jacket, crazy hair and Squeaky Fromme hat. This is how I imagine her Mother. (From B's description) 

250 bonus points for working "Squeaky" into your post.

 

Methenny's health scare are the polyps Care-hole finds in M's intestine?

 

Carole is a fucking mirror, she reflects all of B's bad manners and twattery by going along with whatever B suggests - without questioning the etiquette of  her actions. She talked a great post game pile of bullshit by telling B had she called HER what she called Luann,  it would have been 'on'. 

Yeah, I can see Carol going MMA on someone, Idiot....Please.

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, Ellee said:

6 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Didn't JKL start the freeze out in Season 3?  For some reason I thought that that was another idea Jill acting as the director/producer, thought of.   I could be wrong. 

I've also always felt that Bethenny's assistant, Julie, was extremely instrumental in Bethenny's success.  I'd love to hear her recounting the years though I'm sure that won't happen.

 

No one refused to film with another HW or exclude them from the big cast trip before. Not talking to someone when they are at the same event/party is one thing but to get up and leave because that person arrives and get them frozen out of 2 trips (including the main trip) hasn't happened before. They need to stop calling this the RHWNY and just start calling it what it is......Bethenny's World.

I would love to hear the tales Julie could tell but I wouldn't doubt that Bethenny had/has all her employees sign an iron clad nondisclosure agreement before she hires them.

[b2H]

This crap with Bethenny being the 'truth cannon' is so ridiculous.

Look, if someone is attacking all the folks considered to be close froends for real and imagined grievances, maybe it's not them.  Maybe it's you.

I get that Andy is in love with Bethenny, but the rest of them could find something else to do that doesn't involve Bethenny.  She is a vile, insecure attack dog with no sincere remorse.   I would  have nothing to do with this person, had I made her acquaintance after the first round of attacks.    The others must be very hard up for cash to put up with this less-than-senseless being.

Edited June 9, 2016 by b2H

[ElDosEquis]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

This proves that many men are stupid.  What the hell does he see in her?  If I had a penis I wouldn't fuck her with someone else's penis.  

My penis shriveled up to nothing when I read your post.

[ottergirl]

I have such mixed feelings about this season.

On the one hand, it is getting the ONE core ingredient of a housewives show absolutely right: interesting conflict featuring strong personalities.  Say what you will, these women have got personality to spare, and for the most part, their personalities appear capable of featuring more than one emotion, and therefore can sustain more of our interest.

I also like that the conflicts are at the right level of seriousness, not life or death but also not completely inane (yes, RHOBH Season 6, I'm talking to you!). Is Luann guilty of claiming ownership of Skinnygirl but NOT owning her "sluttiness"?  Speaking of, what is the difference between a cow and a girl? Did Luann call Carole a pedophile at a children's charity? Is it or is it not Dorinda's birthday, and why doesn't anyone care that she made it nice?

I have watched each of these episodes more than once, and that is a very good sign.

BUT. And there is a but. A giant but with a capital B.

It's obvious Bethenny is running the show. I get it: she's reality TV gold, either unafraid to look bad on camera, or unaware that she's looking bad, OR confident that the edit will protect her. (I think it's all three, to be honest.)  

Bethenny's willingness to instigate conflict, and to handle it directly when it arises, is directly opposite the position of, say, Lisa Vanderpump who wants to keep all her interesting actions offscreen and collapses in a puddle of self-pity when anyone tries to engage her. So that's a strength.

But...look, we all know that there are behind-the-scenes dynamics that drive these shows.  But the power dynamics here seem particularly pungent. And it's threatening to overwhelm the narrative. Most of the relationships on this show are driven by ONE unnamed factor: Bethenny. Every single wife is well aware that her relationship with Bethenny, and Bethenny's opinion of her, is the primary determinant of whether she gets to stay on the show. You can look at every woman and see it, quite clearly. For instance:

Carole. Carole is in the catbird seat; she is not only Bethenny's "best friend" for filming purposes but, not coincidentally, she is offscreen friends with Andy. Carole has the confident, immune air of one who knows that she is in no danger at all.  She's always had a bit of "above it all" about her, and now it's literally true. (You will note that this list goes from best edit to worst edit, and it also goes from Bethenny's most favorite to least favorite cast members. This is not an accident.)

Ramona. Ramona knows that the season she got the best edit was Season 3, when she and Alex formed Bethenny's clique. So Ramona is going right back to that well. She threw over Sonja, walking away from a long term friend in favor of a professional alliance. We see this again and again and again: Ramona asking Bethenny how she should apologize on last season's reunion, Ramona sucking up to Bethenny nonstop in every scene, Ramona telling Luann and Sonja what they need to do to apologize to Bethenny. These two have a mutual-best-interest strategic alliance, where Ramona uses Bethenny to stay on the show and Bethenny uses Ramona to make her look sane by contrast, like the Bethenny we loved back on Seasons 1-2. Ramona: second best ally, second best edit.

Dorinda. Dorinda is an excellent example of the Bethenny influence. At the beginning of the season, Bethenny attacked both Dorinda and John viciously, INCLUDING outing John as a cocaine user on camera and coming very close to doing the same about Dorinda. That is way over the line for this show, but Dorinda let it pass. Probably informed by her producer, she knew if she got into a fight with Bethenny, or tried to go tit-for-tat on drug allegations, she would lose. So instead she focused her wrath on Ramona, for no good reason. Ramona says she doesn't like John, Bethenny says John is a gross drug user, and you're mad at Ramona? Please. Plus, Dorinda worked very hard to justify not inviting Sonja to the Berkshires, without saying on camera the simple fact everyone knew: if Sonja came, Bethenny wouldn't, and the trip might not even happen. Finally, in this episode, Dorinda admitted the truth, saying at Ramona's party "if Sonja came, other people wouldn't." Wow, what "other people" would you be referring to, Dorinda?

My favorite part of watching Dorinda this season is seeing herself tie herself into a knot to explain why she considers Bethenny a good friend, and why she is forgiving Bethenny, when she went nuclear on Heather last year for walking into a party ahead of her. It's also worth noting that ever since Dorinda stopped fighting with Bethenny, Dorinda's been getting the "voice of reason" edit.  This is not an accident. And Dorinda knows that. .

Jules.  Who? This is Bethenny's attitude towards Jules, so it's ours also. The only time Jules has had a good scene was around eating disorders, and don't tell me the purpose of that wasn't to give Bethenny (and Carole) a chance to explain to the camera the difference between their kind of skinny (natural! healthy!) and Jules'. It's also interesting that one thing everyone knows about Bethenny is that she has struggled with eating disorders, or at the very least, has dealt with those rumors, but this season, no, no, no, Bethenny knows about eating disorders only by watching others, like Jules and her Mom. You're telling me not one housewife had anything to say about the irony of Bethenny of all people attacking Jules for disordered eating? Bethenny of the "here I am wearing my kindergartner's pajamas? When it was the first response of every commenter who saw the storyline? Okay. Got it. 

Luann. The good news here is that as one of Bethenny's two foils, Luann is guaranteed screen time, as the antagonist. For someone who is getting paid literally by the scene, this is good for her!  Hence, the reason I don't think she's totally wound up about Bethenny picking fights with her.  It just gives her more scene opportunities to wear her Countess Collection on camera. (I am desperate to meet just ONE person who would be buy that red jumpsuit; wearing it ironically doesn't count.) However, there is a price to be paid for being Bethenny's antagonist. Namely: the edit will never show your side. What is most fascinating about Bethenny's fight with Luann is that a) Bethenny claims it is a fight about hypocrisy, and b) BETHENNY IS THE HYPOCRITE. One thing you cannot say about Luann the last few seasons is you cannot say that she doesn't own her "sluttiness".  Luann got new life on the series when she slept with the pirate, and ever since then, she's been letting her freak flag fly.  Bethenny herself said last season that Luann is the "anti-Countess" now. I don't like Luann, I never have, but it's just a fact: the last few seasons have been ALL ABOUT Luann on the prowl, how much game she has, how many men she sleeps with.  You can't say she doesn't own it! 

I also don't buy the "Luann claimed Skinnygirl" thing. What Luann tried to say was that she was there -- ON CAMERA -- when Skinnygirl was introduced to the world. It was a scene between the two of them. That was not when Bethenny came up with the "recipe", but it was when the world saw it, and I guarantee that until she heard the response from viewers, Bethenny had not thought to monetize it. She was still selling her cardboard cupcakes all through Season Two! But yes, people loved the idea of a skinny girl margarita, and Bethenny, to her hardworking credit, busted her butt to make the absolute most of it.  All Luann was trying to do was make the point that it DID begin with the two of them on camera together, talking about it.  Had Luann not filmed that scene, had Bravo not aired that scene, we would not have the brand. (Oh, for a world). I think it's ridiculous of Bethenny to get so wound up about it, although to be fair to her, I think that was because she had just dealt with the Sonja thing, and she was coming from a place of "would these wives please get off my coattails." 

Speaking of Sonja.... I wrote extensively about Sonja in an earlier post; suffice to say that Sonja (through her partners I suspect) tried to use Bethenny's name brand to advance her own cause. Bethenny shut that down, eviscerated her on camera, and so far, has shut her out of the show. If Luann is the foil that Bethenny will engage on camera, Sonja is the adversary that she won't. So Sonja, who I also don't like, is left twisting in the wind, abandoned by her BFF Ramona, and her only ally being the other Bethenny antagonist. 

And in the end, this is my bigger issue. Bethenny is the hypocrite, but no one will talk about it. Bethenny is, as we all know, dating a married man - the married man of her high school BFF, no less.  So how does she get off attacking Luann on camera for a) dating married men and b) being a hypocrite and not owning it when that is exactly and precisely what Bethenny is doing? It's absolutely insane.  Attack Jules for an eating disorder, but pretend you never had one; attack Luann for dating a married man and not admitting to it, when you're doing the same; even attack Dorinda for taking drugs when if certain rumor mills are to be believed, you have your own Adderissues? 

I don't know Bethenny, I don't know what she does.  But I am SO TIRED of her attacking these women using off-camera evidence, when the same evidence will never be used against her.  It's sort of a basic unfairness. And it's what is bothering me about the show. Every thing that is going on is about Bethenny, at its core. It's Game of Thrones, and what it's really about is how Manhattan women navigate social power, and how one woman wields it. I'm actually kind of into it.  I just hate that the thing feels rigged, because the unseen judge is not the audience, but Andy and production, and the whole outcome is pre-determined. 

I think it's a simple fix. Pull the curtain back one notch further.  You want to let Bethenny state her truth?  Let Dorinda, Luann and Sonja state theirs.  This episode felt like it was sidling closer to that: at Ramona's party, once Bethenny left, the women were coming pretty close to saying the core of the issue here is Bethenny's anger is keeping Sonja from being part of "the group." But the problem is that the two people (Luann and Sonja) who are antagonists are ALSO the two wives who are being paid scene-by-scene (hence Sonja's real anger about Berkshires; as she said in her blog, being left out of that trip 'cost her.' in other words, they have no power to wield. I wish they'd bring back a Heather character and let her provide a genuine counterpoint. (Fat chance; production had Heather last season and twisted themselves into pretzels giving her a villain edit for offering Bethenny a meatball and inquiring about her kid.) 

Let Bethenny be Tywin Lannister, but you have to give her a real foil, someone else with power and clout, or we're just watching one person holding all the cards and all the weapons and all the power, bullying the minions. 

I mean, I like watching Manhattan wives try to deal with an insane power dynamic. I like watching them try to navigate their way through a very rigged playing field. It's interesting. I guess my thing is, it's a bridge too far when the narrative states that Bethenny is a truth teller and Luann is a hypocrite, because those things are simply not true. The whole thing is a house of cards. Maybe the fun is watching to see when it falls.

P.S. I think Bethenny is feeling the backlash; her blog this week started in with her "I'm dealing with a major health crisis" narrative, which is a great card to play when you might be in danger of losing the audience sympathy. Almost as lucky for her as when her Dad died in Season 3, cementing her victory over Jill! (sarcasm emoji, please, as one who lost a parent not so long ago AND who suffers from the same health issue as the one Bethenny is rumored to have, I am not making light of either one, but geez, timing-wise and narrative-wise, Bethenny lucks out.)

P.S.S. Apologies also for the insanely long post. Previously.TV should charge by the word. (No, please don't.)

[ElDosEquis]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Well, that was a fun sleepover. 

Lasagna (both Kosher and Non) at 8. Everybody in bed by 9. With booze filled screaming matches in between. Good times. 

A fire pit and shotguns would have been nice....

[izabella]

16 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Yeah, I can see Carol going MMA on someone, Idiot....Please.

Carole prefers to mumble under her breath and have her friend fight the fight for her. 

[ladle]

Is there some mental chip in reality show characters that renders them pathologically incapable of pronouncing the plural of the word "text"? 

In this episode, I think even Carole was saying "text-sees." 

[ElDosEquis]

8 minutes ago, izabella said:

Carole prefers to mumble under her breath and have her friend fight the fight for her. 

Instigates the fight and leaves the scene should her friend starts to lose?

[zoeysmom]

I don't understand Ramona's blog.  Is she trying to say she met a man at a bar and he whisked her away to a booth?  Conversing with her exclusively - rings of complaints the others have had of Ramona monopolizing the conversation.  So if you are sitting with a man in a booth and Luann sits on one side of him  (presumbably where Ramona was sitting) why would Ramona have to crawl over the top of the booth to regain a seat next to the man?  Would not the other side be open?  Or is Ramona spilling her hand there were others at the booth and perhaps they all tired of ole' Crazy Eyes monopolizing the conversation.

I think I would pretty well pay to watch Ramona crawl over a table to get a spot next to a man. The other people at the table had to be appalled.   If the guy wanted to be with Ramona he would have simply asked Luann to move so he could get up and use the restroom.  Men want what they want and stanky old cray sixty year old women may be off the menu.  Ramona does realize that crawling over the table is probably the lowest form of any appropriate social behavior there is or does she?

I have a appalling lack of respect for these women and their extreme insecurity when it comes to men. If the guy wants you ladies, he will find a way to be with you.  If he is sidetracked by a piece of Countess ass, what makes you think he wanted anything more from you?  Sonja loses this argument as well.  If she is randomly screwing all these different guys and her stable of Sonja young men, what is she complaining about when they decide they want to make it a date, instead of diving into the Sonja pond.  Sonja has some explaining to do and needs to be honest not her John John, P. Diddy crap.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

It's not just the producers who think the fighting is entertaining.  Look at "The Bad Girls' Club," if folks thought fighting was boring, that show would have bit the dust years ago.  People are watching, I'm watching.  I don't know if I'd watch a show featuring women going to fashion shows and decorate their homes, every single week. 

I do miss the fashion shows tho. That was pretty cool..

[zoeysmom]

Apparently that was Tom Season 1.  Which has nothing to do with the here and now 

I have to say his focus is on Ramona's friend Joni. 

[Avaleigh]

12 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I don't recall any other HW show freezing a cast member out like we are seeing this season on NY. It is unbelievable how much Bethenny controls this show and these women this season. 

I think Brandi was mostly frozen out before filming of last season began. If Kyle, the Lisas, and Eileen hadn't banded together on that score we probably would have had another full season of that nasty bitch being shoved down our throats.

I agree though, I've never seen a freeze out of this scale.

What I find interesting about Bethenny icing out Sonja is that she admitd that she feels sorry for Sonja, pities her, and worries that she'll meet an unfortunate end. All Sonja has in life are her daughter, that white elephant, and her spot on this show. I wasn't mad at Bethenny for going off on Sonja and telling her about herself but why couldn't she leave it there? Sonja will be devastated if she's kicked off of the show--why would she want to help engineer that? Has Sonja been so horrible to her that she wants to ruin the ine good thing she has going for her apart from her kid? Jesus, it's enough, she already fucking won. Now she's just kicking a diseased puppy.

Am I wrong in thinking that Sonja was very kind and gracious to Bethenny when Bethenny was dealing with her mess with Jill in season 3? 

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

People have not been invited on trips before, though. Ramona didn't invite Jill to Scary Island. Heather didn't bring Ramona to London.

And Ramona was PISSED when Heather didn't invite her. They all know what it means and Dorinda thinks that the viewers are stupid to buy her lame ass excuse that she was protecting Sonja. She was protecting her own place on the show and on WWHL she made it clear that she knows people think she's full of shit.

St. Barths was one of my favorite trips and it was mainly because of Luann, Sonja, and Ramona. 

I enjoyed Morocco mainly because of Luann, Sonja, and maybe Alex and her Herman Munster shoes.

Bethenny made Scary Island for me, I won't deny it. Still, I hate it when one of the wives doesn't go on a trip so that we have to cut away from the trip to see what the left out person is up to. I'm thinking of breaking away from Dubai to see the yawn worthy life of Yolanda. Kim eating cheetos while she does laundry instead of heading out to Malibu. Sonja getting tightened up and handing her interns extension cords. 

Did they cut away to Aviva during the trip Colorado (or was it Wyoming...or Montana? Lol, my memory clearly sucks.) I can't recall but if they did, I know it was boring since I can't remember. ;p

[ElDosEquis]

Another thing that made me laugh was the "Man Stealer" label they gave the Countess. She can add that to her resume?

Some one wrote that BF had written 4 self-help books? I guess she'll keep writing, until she gets it right?

[seasick]

Carole, there is a book out that could possibly help you look less of an ignorant dolt.   (it's by Countess 'somebody')  it may suggest you chew with your mouth closed, don't insult your hostess, and when you are presented  with a plate of hors d'oeuvres do not think the whole plate is for you. (seriously, did you just fall off a turnip truck?? )

Bethenny and Carole sure know how to flatter themselves don't they?  Sneaking out of peoples homes as if after stinking up the place they think someone would 'mind' if the left?  Bethenny.. people have to be paid to be around you.  and Carole..well.. Beth should get the T-shirt "'stupid' here  -> is with me.

[bichonblitz]

I can't help it, I really do like Asian Jewish Jules.  Yes, she's spoiled with the easy life, nannies, housekeepers and all but I don't think she has a malicious bone in her body. She's a nice person. Which of course means she will be fired before the next season begins. 

[parisprincess]

I don't know why Tom being in a scene in the first season is even being brought up.  That picture makes it look like there was some kind of relationship between Ramona and him.  Since Ramona was 'happily' married at the time, I'm assuming the picture is showing Ramona trying to fix her girlfriend up with Tom, right?  Right???

[hoodooznoodooz]

Wouldn't it be fun to learn that Lu's morning walk involved her having sex with some Berkshires local?

[AuntiePam]

What stood out for me was Lu chasing Sonja and demanding that she clear the air with Bethenny -- at a holiday party -- when Beth said she was leaving -- and after Beth had chewed Lu a new one a few days before.  Did she think Beth would forget about her issues with Lu if she had a new target?  Sonja made so much sense and Lu just wouldn't give up.  I felt bad for Sonja, but am glad she stayed strong with Lu.

[zoeysmom]

35 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I think Brandi was mostly frozen out before filming of last season began. If Kyle, the Lisas, and Eileen hadn't banded together on that score we probably would have had another full season of that nasty bitch being shoved down our throats.

I agree though, I've never seen a freeze out of this scale.

What I find interesting about Bethenny icing out Sonja is that she admitd that she feels sorry for Sonja, pities her, and worries that she'll meet an unfortunate end. All Sonja has in life are her daughter, that white elephant, and her spot on this show. I wasn't mad at Bethenny for going off on Sonja and telling her about herself but why couldn't she leave it there? Sonja will be devastated if she's kicked off of the show--why would she want to help engineer that? Has Sonja been so horrible to her that she wants to ruin the ine good thing she has going for her apart from her kid? Jesus, it's enough, she already fucking won. Now she's just kicking a diseased puppy.

Am I wrong in thinking that Sonja was very kind and gracious to Bethenny when Bethenny was dealing with her mess with Jill in season 3? 

And Ramona was PISSED when Heather didn't invite her. They all know what it means and Dorinda thinks that the viewers are stupid to buy her lame ass excuse that she was protecting Sonja. She was protecting her own place on the show and on WWHL she made it clear that she knows people think she's full of shit.

St. Barths was one of my favorite trips and it was mainly because of Luann, Sonja, and Ramona. 

I enjoyed Morocco mainly because of Luann, Sonja, and maybe Alex and her Herman Munster shoes.

Bethenny made Scary Island for me, I won't deny it. Still, I hate it when one of the wives doesn't go on a trip so that we have to cut away from the trip to see what the left out person is up to. I'm thinking of breaking away from Dubai to see the yawn worthy life of Yolanda. Kim eating cheetos while she does laundry instead of heading out to Malibu. Sonja getting tightened up and handing her interns extension cords. 

Did they cut away to Aviva during the trip Colorado (or was it Wyoming...or Montana? Lol, my memory clearly sucks.) I can't recall but if they did, I know it was boring since I can't remember. ;p

Bethenny has frozen Sonja out since the beginning of the season.  The bra party was only two days before Bethenny's party, so either Dorinda was a part of it or Sonja truly didn't sign until right before her birthday party.  Don't know if Luann just wasn't in the city or Dorinda didn't invite her because of . . . oh sigh Carole.

Aviva they removed her from the credits when she refused to go on trips.  I think the nature of the trips made it a little difficult for a woman with a prosthetic  leg.  (Canoeing, repelling, rapids fishing, horse back riding).  That was the year they removed Luann and she carried the season.  Too much in the way of politics on RHNY.

I agree Ramona was outraged and Aviva stayed behind to keep her company.

Edited June 9, 2016 by zoeysmom

[Avaleigh]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

E News is reporting Bethenny began seeing Dennis,  married guy, before the holidays and in fact had him on set but not camera during filming.  http://www.eonline.com/news/771267/real-housewives-of-new-york-city-s-bethenny-frankel-is-dating-dennis-shields.  Oh and how convenient she is comes out with another Bravolebrity in tow:  http://nypost.com/2016/06/09/bethenny-frankel-spotted-house-hunting-with-new-beau/

So she is reaming Luann with all her "fvcking married men", while of course she is doing it.

Thank you guys for keeping me up to speed on this stuff. I'm actually surprised that she'd go so hard for Luann. Did she really think that people wouldn't find out?

3 hours ago, mwell345 said:

Hypocritical witch.

"Shields had been married since 1990 to Frankel’s high school pal Jill Schwartzberg, though the pair is now reportedly separated." Gee, anyone think Andy will call her out on this at the reunion?  Not a chance.

And this is from her blog:

"Life is too short to hang out where you don't want to be and to argue with who you don't want to see."

Then why do the show, Bethenny? If it's such a chore to be around the rest of the cast.

It bothers me no end that Andy is going to treat this skinny cow with kid gloves. I say it every season but he is the WORST moderator. Ugh, I wish somebody would fire his ass.

Btw Zoeysmom, just to be clear, I was saying that Brandi was frozen out prior to the filming of season 6 not that she was being frozen out during season 5. If Kim hadn't also been cut, it's possible that Kyle might have caved and then Rinna likely would have too. Thankfully, Yolanda was the only full time cast member who was willing to film with toxic Brandi, so I feel like this was a case of an ice out working it just didn't happen on camera.

[Primetimer]

Just when it looks like nothing will top the Berkshires, Sonja ups the rage-fueled ante and introduces the world to the opposite of 'staircase wit.'

View the full article

[BlackMamba]

The thing is for me Bethenny keeps saying "You wrote about class and etiquette"  to LuAnn...  YEAH WHEN SHE WAS MARRIED!   Sure she is now divorced there are different rules,  IMO,  for a single woman and married woman how they live and what rep they will uphold in the face of others especially in their social circle.   Bethenny needs to come off her righteous/sanctimonious crap because she is the last person who needs to be telling these women how to leave their lives.  

And another thing that's pissing me off,  she keeps wanting LuAnn to admit to it.   Yes they are on a reality show but that's for the person to decide what they want to admit to or not.   Not because queen B wants them too!   She ain't nobody to be controlling others the way she wants. 

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Thank you guys for keeping me up to speed on this stuff. I'm actually surprised that she'd go so hard for Luann. Did she really think that people wouldn't find out?

It bothers me no end that Andy is going to treat this skinny cow with kid gloves. I say it every season but he is the WORST moderator. Ugh, I wish somebody would fire his ass.

Btw Zoeysmom, just to be clear, I was saying that Brandi was frozen out prior to the filming of season 6 not that she was being frozen out during season 5. If Kim hadn't also been cut, it's possible that Kyle might have caved and then Rinna likely would have too. Thankfully, Yolanda was the only full time cast member who was willing to film with toxic Brandi, so I feel like this was a case of an ice out working it just didn't happen on camera.

I fixed it thanks for the clarification.

22 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Wouldn't it be fun to learn that Lu's morning walk involved her having sex with some Berkshires local?

Very fun. Humorous if it would have been the driver.  That was Bethenny's big bitch Season 1-she would not shake hands with the driver and didn't want to be introduced by her first name but Mrs. de lesseps.

[izabella]

7 minutes ago, BlackMamba said:

And another thing that's pissing me off,  she keeps wanting LuAnn to admit to it.   Yes they are on a reality show but that's for the person to decide what they want to admit to or not.   Not because queen B wants them too!   She ain't nobody to be controlling others the way she wants. 

Bethy won't discuss her personal life, who she's dating, who she's fucking, or anything about anything - and she either falls apart or goes into a rage even when asked innocuous questions - so she has NO standing to demand that others talk about their sex lives in great detail on camera. 

[Ellee]

Activate!  ......  Man at bar!!!

 

ETA:  Stole picture from Previously TV article.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Ellee

[Midnight Cheese]

6 hours ago, Gaily said:

http://blindgossip.com/?p=78938

Bethenny was the correct answer to this blind item apparently.  if this is true -- that she fooled around with her good friend's husband and the poor wife did not even suspect a thing -- then I will be disappointed. Wonder if this will come up at the Reunion?  If I was LuAnn, I would be all over this.

I'd bet this is true, and not just because I hate her.  Neither of the Shields' has filed for divorce, and Bethenny's neck-straining rabid possum passion for going after Lu suggests Bethenny knows she's got a plank in one of her rage-squinted eyes.  (It's not proof per se of course, but it's not like this is an unknown phenomenon; it's not an accident that some of our more publicly homophobic representatives wind up getting arrested for bathroom toe-tapping).  The hypocrite in that group was the one who tried (failed!) to get her Dominique Deveraux on at Ramonster's party in that ugh of a jacket.  All this concern about 'stealing' and karma...Bethenny's setting herself up for forms of herpes and bankruptcy not yet known by medical science or CPAs.  She is HEINOUS. 

Carole and Bethenny and Ramona's group fixation on LuAnn's dating and sex life is just pathetic beyond the boundaries of English.  It's pathetic.  They are each probably not capable of functional, normal relationships with women who 'threaten' them.  When LuAnn threatens you?  It's on you, boo.  Not her.  It's on your man, boo.  Not her.  Live it, learn it, love it.  And get over it, because the person stopping you from finding someone is you. 

I really give it up to LuAnn (boo to the jumpsuit...not even you, gorgeous.) and am loving the previews where she doesn't let herself get marginalized and screwed out of a luxury trip to Mexico and filming time.  Hey, Andy's interns!  Hi, Carole!  Hey, Bethenny slave #406!  All y'all are fucking idiots!  Lots of viewers, apparently virtually all of the Twitterverse and virtually all recappers HATE letting one Adderal-fueled titskeleton and her Jello-pudding-faced sidekick and their occasional 'friend' Bill the Cat determine who gets to be on the show, travel for show trips, be filmed. 

Can we also say LuAnn killed it by suggesting her personalized wine glass say 'ya know, slut, whatever'?  Awesome.  She said 'sorry' in her quasi-Canadian accent dozens of times.  She asked for examples. She smiled in the face of viciousness.  The fuck else could be done?  And there is Ramona in a TH, saying "Sometimes LuAnn needs to defend herself too much..zip it" -- when the only footage of 'attention-stealing' shows RAMONA trying to get the Turks guy to speak only with her.  And there is Carole whining at the speed permitted by her facial injections about 'sincerity' when she herself lacks the ovaries for independent conversations, but tries to thrust in long knives while pretending to be above things.  She is in the shit, way down there, and Lu is seemingly effortlessly above her now.  Haaaaaaaa. 

I laughed and almost cheered watching Dorinda and Jules play Twister.  Play on, players!  That was awesome.  Also -- Dorinda is a wonderful hostess, if we look past (as LuAnn did, and this was gracious) her inability and unwillingness to get Bethenny to cram it up her cornhole.  Hiring a Santa Claus, giving gifts, planning a breakfast, having such a well-stocked home (tons of food, tons of games, tons of books, everything decorated, lucking into gorgeous weather, the world's coolest and least flappable cook on hand) - she was great.  I would be thrilled to be invited to an all-girls, no-kids weekend like that, where it seems truly everything was accounted for.  And I'm glad Jules and LuAnn were trying to go with it.  Lu really deserves a ton of credit - the people whipping shit to and fro were Ramona with her 'help' and poor incontinent dog, Carole and Beastenny.  Neither Carole nor Bethenny deserve any credit for saying good bye -- if LuAnn hadn't yelled 'goodbye' I doubt they would've turned around.  THAT'S when Carole pretended to have manners, not a second before.

I have a crush on Jules' husband.  He's just mellow but smart-seeming.  And cute, and I'm historically not into shorties but he's one of if not the most perfect Househusband ever on Bravo.  Hear me out!  He's super comfortable on camera without being all gross and over-eager about it, he's himself, at least it seems, as he's loyal to John, he's genuinely amused with some of the crazy he sees without being sardonic and lame, he's cool and kind to his wife and actually talks to and listens to her without trying to one-up or degrade her to an audience, but he's not milquetoast.  And their sleepy kiddo is such a cute girl.  

Ramona's party...she looked ridiculous.  Tottering, fake, shellacked.  Sad.  She is spectacularly abusive to Sonja, and I'm not into Sexy J.  But everything she says is steeped in delusion, and I wish she got tons more flak for it.  For instance, Ramona tried to claim Sonja - who correctly assessed the futility of approaching the unreasonable and vicious Bethenny - had 'lost it' for 2 years just as Mario had 'lost it.'  Um.  Sweetie darling.  Sonja was right - without even more conversation, Bethenny is shivving her and forcing her out of the big trip.  Mario has apparently not been into her for years, and he obviously insisted in making very, very, very public how not into her he was.  That's not 'losing it.'  That's 'planning it and grinning for photographers - and keeping on, in private, after the divorce.'  It's rational, not irrational.  She really brings nothing for me.  She's delusional and mean as fuck.  This is her treatment of Sonja, a 'friend' for decades, all because Bethenny is incurably angry.  Ok.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Midnight Cheese

[WireWrap]

24 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

What stood out for me was Lu chasing Sonja and demanding that she clear the air with Bethenny -- at a holiday party -- when Beth said she was leaving -- and after Beth had chewed Lu a new one a few days before.  Did she think Beth would forget about her issues with Lu if she had a new target?  Sonja made so much sense and Lu just wouldn't give up.  I felt bad for Sonja, but am glad she stayed strong with Lu.

I think Luann knows that if Sonja doesn't kowtow to Bethenny on camera then she risks loosing her Apple/job next season. Luann doesn't want to loose her job either so she puts up with Bethenny's nastiness.

13 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Thank you guys for keeping me up to speed on this stuff. I'm actually surprised that she'd go so hard for Luann. Did she really think that people wouldn't find out?

It bothers me no end that Andy is going to treat this skinny cow with kid gloves. I say it every season but he is the WORST moderator. Ugh, I wish somebody would fire his ass.

Btw Zoeysmom, just to be clear, I was saying that Brandi was frozen out prior to the filming of season 6 not that she was being frozen out during season 5. If Kim hadn't also been cut, it's possible that Kyle might have caved and then Rinna likely would have too. Thankfully, Yolanda was the only full time cast member who was willing to film with toxic Brandi, so I feel like this was a case of an ice out working it just didn't happen on camera.

As you said, the others refused to film with Brandi in between seasons and not during the season. Brandi threatened Kyle several times during her last season and she slapped LisaV in the face as well, so there were legit reasons to want her gone, at least to me. This freezing Sonja out is only happening because Bethenny got her panties in a bunch over Sonja being the face of TG to earn a few pennies, not because Sonja threatened to physically hurt her or that she slapped her in the face.

[coops]

5 hours ago, trimthatfat said:

It made me terribly sad when Sonja left the party. Dorinda's exclusion of Sonja was not to protect her, it was to ensure that she stayed on Bethenny's good side. The same Bethenny who implied John was a drug addict. The same Bethenny who implied John was trash. Sonja, to my recollection, has never done anything like that. So yes, I totally get why she's pissed and hurt. Her leaving the party was a very real reaction to the BS.

One of the things that irks me about Bethenny's return is how it has changed the dynamic in the group for the worst. Now, everyone is trying to kiss her ass and if you don't (like Luann), you risk falling out with everyone else.

Sonja can't win all the other women are jumping on the 'she has problems' bandwagon. If Sonja had tried to talk to Bethenny as they were all goading her to do Bethenny would have screamed at her and ran off. Sonja kept her dignity, they wanted to see Bethenny rip her apart. 

I've yet to see anyone call Bethenny out for being a bitch yet, even LuAnn when attacked was defending herself and not attacking or nitpicking at Bethenny's deeply flaws excuse for a personality. I really want Bethennt to be excluded or called out on something.

[izabella]

4 minutes ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Mario has apparently not been into her for years, and he obviously insisted in making very, very, very public how not into her he was.

Yes, why wasn't Bethy screaming at Ramona last year to own her behavior, the behavior that had her bobbing and weaving to catch Mario cheating?

1 minute ago, coops said:

I've yet to see anyone call Bethenny out for being a bitch yet, even LuAnn when attacked was defending herself and not attacking or nitpicking at Bethenny's deeply flaws excuse for a personality. I really want Bethennt to be excluded or called out on something.

I don't think they're allowed to do this.  Otherwise, why wouldn't they call her out for being the biggest asshole that ever farted?

[hoosiermom]

Does Bethenny act like this in her REAL life?

[BlackMamba]

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

Bethy won't discuss her personal life, who she's dating, who she's fucking, or anything about anything - and she either falls apart or goes into a rage even when asked innocuous questions - so she has NO standing to demand that others talk about their sex lives in great detail on camera. 

I could see even if Carole was saying this to LuAnn because she's a princess from an elitist family.   But Bethenny?!??!  On what planet should she be a moral compass! 

Edited June 9, 2016 by BlackMamba

[pbutler111]

  48 minutes ago, BlackMamba said:

And another thing that's pissing me off,  she keeps wanting LuAnn to admit to it.   Yes they are on a reality show but that's for the person to decide what they want to admit to or not.   Not because queen B wants them too!   She ain't nobody to be controlling others the way she wants. 

Bethy won't discuss her personal life, who she's dating, who she's fucking, or anything about anything - and she either falls apart or goes into a rage even when asked innocuous questions - so she has NO standing to demand that others talk about their sex lives in great detail on camera. 

Bethenny's not demanding that LuAnn talk about her sex life in great detail on camera; in fact, I think she would rather set her hair on fire than listen tot he details of LuAnn's sex life. What she's trying to do is get LuAnn to stop condemning others for things that she herself does. In short -- stop being a hypocrite. You can call Bethenny a lot of things, but hypocrite wouldn't be a fair one to include.

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

 

What stood out for me was Lu chasing Sonja and demanding that she clear the air with Bethenny -- at a holiday party -- when Beth said she was leaving -- and after Beth had chewed Lu a new one a few days before.  Did she think Beth would forget about her issues with Lu if she had a new target?  Sonja made so much sense and Lu just wouldn't give up.  I felt bad for Sonja, but am glad she stayed strong with Lu.

 

I wish Lu would have come home that night to Casa Sonja only to find her bags packed and sitting by the front door with a note attached saying "Get the fuck out" !

[jaync]

Why is Beth even on the show? It's obvious that she abhors being a HW, and her brand of thunder twatness isn't entertaining nor interesting, so she's not even a good love-to-hate character. NY used to be one of my faves of the franchise, but Beth's presence has taken it from sugar to shit.

Quote

Gee, anyone think Andy will call her out on this at the reunion? 

No way, and if any of the others dare to, my money's on it either being edited out, or the "health scare" being used as a diversion.

How many times did Ramona try to compare Sonja with Mario?

Quote

As for all her "hard work," okay, I'll give her some of that, but about 60% of that was pure luck, had she not been on Housewives, she still would be standing in Food Emporium selling her wares to an empty supermarket.

Also...

[BananaRama]

Bethenny and Ramona insist that Luann is a man-stealer, but I don't recall ever seeing Luann steal a man from someone.  If she has, it hasn't been captured on camera.

[lezlers]

I loved when Luann asked Ramona if she liked her (hideous) jumpsuit and Ramona was all "I don't really know what to think..."  Ha ha ha!  Ramona is such a bitch.  I mean, sure it's ugly, but when your friend is wearing an outfit from her collection and clearly wants you to compliment it, just freaking compliment it.  God.  And she calls herself Lu's friend?

I really do love Bethanny but it was hard to be on her side these past two episodes.  The sneaking out the next morning was beyond.  That woman has zero tact or manners and her and Carol are total middle school mean girls. 

Jules continues to bug the living shit out of me.  You seriously can't figure out how to pick up your kids from school after you're off doing god knows what (you're certainly not working.) Really?  You've never had to pick up your children from school before?  This is as foreign to you as brewing a cup of coffee and scrambling some eggs?  I know she's going for endearing, but she's really coming off as insufferable.  And her husband is LESS hands on than HER?  Would their children even recognize them in a crowd?

Edited June 9, 2016 by lezlers

[psychoticstate]

4 hours ago, parisprincess said:

thought Luann's apology to Carole at Ramona's party sounded very sincere, yet Carole said it sounded 'a little more sincere' than the last one.  What is Luann supposed to do, keep apologizing until Carole deems it to be sincere enough for her?

Until BRAVO and Andy figure out how to get a camera up Bethenny's ass, Carole does not have a storyline outside of her "fight" with LuAnn.