S07.E10: Choose Your Battles

[shelley1234]

16 minutes ago, Lexie said:

 

But my point was that these new relationships might not work out and statistically they probably won't.   So I don't think it's a great idea to shove Cole into the daddy role so soon. Shoving Cole into that spot isn't necessarily the answer to how Aubree is probably going to have major daddy issues.   

It it doesn't really matter how you perceive javi vs Cole.  Kail was so sure at the time but things change sometimes too.  

Disagree.  I think that when Aubree's dad consistently doesn't show up there is nothing inappropriate about having her fiance take her to the father/daughter dance.  It would be cruel not to.  Not having him take her would have been the worse parenting move by Chelsea...and I even appreciate that even though she thought it might be awkward, Chelsea also maturely handled the idea of both of them being there for her.   

It does matter to me how I perceive Javi and Cole, hence why I mentioned it.  They are very different people and personalities.    

Edited May 26, 2016 by shelley1005

[Darknight]

I don't understand why girls like Chelsea complain about their children's father. You chose him. You slept with him. Adam has been like this since they've been together. He's not going to change just because you had his kid. Girls with low self esteem get with guys hoping they'll change or hoping a baby will make him stay. It won't. Adam will never change. He's an asshole. Now Aubree will have to deal with his bullshit too. 

[Lexie]

49 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

Disagree.  I think that when Aubree's dad consistently doesn't show up there is nothing inappropriate about having her fiance take her to the father/daughter dance.  It would be cruel not to.  Not having him take her would have been the worse parenting move by Chelsea...and I even appreciate that even though she thought it might be awkward, Chelsea also maturely handled the idea of both of them being there for her.   

It does matter to me how I perceive Javi and Cole, hence why I mentioned it.  They are very different people and personalities.    

No it really doesn't because you aren't the parent of either kid.   These moms are controlling shit to fit their fantasy of a happy family and its gross to watch them manipulate kids like that.   

Chelsea tried for years to have Adam fit that fantasy knowing that he is a tool so yeah, Her judgement seems to suck in general.  She would be with any guy who would have her right now 

its cruel to make Aubree wonder if he was coming up till the last minute because she was playing her games and not communicating so Cole could go instead.   

Edited May 26, 2016 by Lexie

[shelley1234]

13 minutes ago, Lexie said:

No it really doesn't because you aren't the parent of either kid.   These moms are controlling shit to fit their fantasy of a happy family and its gross to watch them manipulate kids like that.   

Chelsea tried for years to have Adam fit that fantasy knowing that he is a tool so yeah, Her judgement seems to suck in general.  She would be with any guy who would have her right now 

its cruel to make Aubree wonder if he was coming up till the last minute because she was playing her games and not communicating so Cole could go instead.   

Nah, I don't think so.  

None of us are the parents.  We're people on the internet talking about the show.  So, in this context...I think all our perceptions do matter, but if you don't think mine does because it disagrees with you, feel free to click ignore.  Moving on.  

I also think Chelsea did her job.  She texted Adam and the rest was on him.   Him not texting back is his game, not her's.  She's not his Mom.  And she made sure Cole was there for her daughter.  She did the best she could given the bad choice she made as a 16 yr old to have a baby with that suck of a man.  I am glad she is no longer enabling Adam.  Calling him a bunch of times to see if he is still coming to her soccer game...only to have him not show up anyways.  Adam is either gonna be a dad or not...and let's be real, when the camera is not rolling...it's a big ol' not.  

[lidarose9]

I just want to say in Barb's defense, back when things were going "good" with Jenelle and Nips, Barbara agreed to plan to transition Jace back to Jenelle -- and she CRIED talking about it. She said she didn't want him to think she (Barb) didn't want him. When he was tiny and Jenelle repeatedly left him at home with Barb while she was out gallivanting, Barb became emotionally attached to the little guy, whether she meant to or not. She loves him. Her parenting skills leave a lot to be desired for sure, but she cares about that little boy, otherwise she would have punted him back to Jenelle the first time she wanted him back. 

Also I suspect the MTV producers want Barb to take those phone calls from Jenelle, even though we all know she's just going to spout more nonsense. And Jenelle knows very damn well she's on speakerphone and Jace can hear every word. Has Jenelle EVER for one instant stopped to consider her words because Jace was present? Never. And it'll never happen. Jace could be a brick, as far as she's concerned. 

[Tatum]

7 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But Barb wasn't just put in the predicament; she had a big hand in it.  She told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of the kid, but she did anyway.  In that sense, I feel she volunteered because she chose not to make Jenelle take care of Jace. 

There was an episode of 16&P (maybe two?) where the parents insisted that they would not take care of the baby and the daughter believed it and gave the baby up for adoption.  Traumatic for all involved, but at least there's a chance that the baby found its way into a decent home.  Jace was never even given that chance because Barbara prevented it from happening, and I think she owes him.

Adoption and foster care are far from perfect, and there are definitely no guarantees.  But if Jace were living this very life within the foster care system, it would be used as an example of the failing of the system, that a child would be placed in such a harmful, toxic atmosphere.

I agree with you that Jace would have been far better off taking his chances with adoption, but I'm not sure realistically what other options Barb had.

Let's say Barb had put her foot down and told Jenelle she was not lifting a finger to take care of the baby and Jenelle wasn't bringing him into Barb's house (still not sure how that works when your minor child has a baby- I mean you're not responsible for the baby but you are legally responsible for your kid still- but no matter, for arguments sake let's say Barb could legally change the locks and force Jenelle to fend for herself). I do believe that after some time of actually being the sole caretaker of a newborn while homeless, Jenelle would become much more amenable to adoption. 

The problem is, Jenelle would view this change of heart as Barb "winning". And for Jenelle, who I think only had Jace purely as a fuck you to Barb, that would be a bitter pill to swallow. 

Jenelle is selfish and lazy, but she's also spiteful. I think she's less spiteful than she is selfish, but it's a close contest, which means she'd hang on to Jace long after she'd concluded to herself she didn't want him. It could have taken days, or even weeks, before Jenelle would have decided that having her freedom was worth letting Barb "win". That's a lot of time for something to go wrong while baby Jace is being passed around at whatever crack house Jenelle can find to stay. And if something happened to her grandson, Barb would have had to live with knowing she didn't help him. 

It was an impossible choice she was forced to make. There's a good chance he would have made it through those weeks as an infant before Jenelle finally agreed to adoption, none the wiser to the conditions of his early life, but what if he didn't make it? Quite the gamble. 

[Cosmocrush]

30 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I agree with you that Jace would have been far better off taking his chances with adoption, but I'm not sure realistically what other options Barb had.

Let's say Barb had put her foot down and told Jenelle she was not lifting a finger to take care of the baby and Jenelle wasn't bringing him into Barb's house (still not sure how that works when your minor child has a baby- I mean you're not responsible for the baby but you are legally responsible for your kid still- but no matter, for arguments sake let's say Barb could legally change the locks and force Jenelle to fend for herself). I do believe that after some time of actually being the sole caretaker of a newborn while homeless, Jenelle would become much more amenable to adoption. 

The problem is, Jenelle would view this change of heart as Barb "winning". And for Jenelle, who I think only had Jace purely as a fuck you to Barb, that would be a bitter pill to swallow. 

Jenelle is selfish and lazy, but she's also spiteful. I think she's less spiteful than she is selfish, but it's a close contest, which means she'd hang on to Jace long after she'd concluded to herself she didn't want him. It could have taken days, or even weeks, before Jenelle would have decided that having her freedom was worth letting Barb "win". That's a lot of time for something to go wrong while baby Jace is being passed around at whatever crack house Jenelle can find to stay. And if something happened to her grandson, Barb would have had to live with knowing she didn't help him. 

It was an impossible choice she was forced to make. There's a good chance he would have made it through those weeks as an infant before Jenelle finally agreed to adoption, none the wiser to the conditions of his early life, but what if he didn't make it? Quite the gamble. 

Exactly. But I think at best, Jace would be in the foster system because Jenelle would never relinquish her rights and despite the flaws in Bab's parenting (and there are many) of Jace, believe me he is far far better off than most of the kids in the foster system because he does have at least one person that loves him and cares about him and that's not a small thing.  Interesting that Jenelle really only has one person that truly cares about her too and it's the same woman.  I wonder if Jenelle will ever realize that?

 It's not so easy to give up on your own child - even a fuck up like Jenelle.  

Edited May 26, 2016 by Cosmocrush

[ReadMeLattice]

@charmed1, exactly. I saw no reason to assume Ali was "lying" or "manipulating." Her feelings are valid. They're not unimportant just because she's not an adult.

If Ali usually needs help carrying the backpack, which Miranda says she does, I assume there are things in there of some kind. 

[salvame]

This may be a novel concept (haven't read allll the pages of this topic yet) but how about Miranda/Corey/Leah got the electric mobility chair out of the car and Ali could sit in it with her backpack and ride it into the house???  I just can't wrap my head around them totally disregarding the Dr's advice to have her use the chair.  Maybe if she did, she could actually have more energy to do something a bit more active when she wanted to.  And for that activity, how about a bounce house, or a swimming pool - you know, something less taxing on her body but still fun.  It's ok for her not to do exactly the same activities her sister does.  Let her be her own person - she can do choir and swimming, Aleeah can do soccer and cheer or whatever.  

[blubld43]

Quote

I don't understand what changed Corey's mind with custody, I feel like he likes to have the control. I like the shared custody 

Corey did not change his mind.  The legal requirement in their state is that one parent is primary custodian, they do not recognize joint custody.  It is completely out of Corey's control, out of his lawyer's control, it's state law.

I believe they can legally share decision making for the girls, but only one parent can be named custodian.  This is yet another example of the Messer clan and their Leah-as-victim story line.

Edited May 26, 2016 by blubld43

[Pixiebomb]

Victoria, Chasity....cousin ? Sister?  I can't keep these people straight. Sister or cousin?  Then I remembered it's the Holler y'all. They probably are sister/cousins. (Did I just cross a line)?  

Then I remembered that I don't care. 

Now to the Messer/Sims Clan:

Just keep the baby in the minivan while you lower the electric wheelchair lift and Ali can drive her wheelchair right out of the van with her back pack securely attached to said chair, and drive right up the ramp into her wheelchair accessible home, where a healthy snack of fruit and cheese are waiting for her.  

Oh wait...,

[MargeGunderson]

16 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

Just keep the baby in the minivan while you lower the electric wheelchair lift and Ali can drive her wheelchair right out of the van with her back pack securely attached to said chair, and drive right up the ramp into her wheelchair accessible home, where a healthy snack of fruit and cheese are waiting for her.  

Oh wait...,

Pixiebomb, that don't make no sense.

[Uncle JUICE]

I've got to jump in on Chelsea's side here: she has literally NO responsibility to tell Adam anything that isn't medical at this point. He's proven over and over again he's totally disinterested in being a parent. If my wife and I were to get divorced, it would be my duty to make sure I knew exactly the same stuff my wife knew as far as school events were concerned, the kids' grades, activity schedules, not my wife's job to inform me. That's the grown up's resonsibility. Chelsea isn't his mom. He is completely capable of finding information, and in almost every case nowadays you can sign up for text alerts, facebook alerts, twitter stuff, all from the school. It's not that hard. Even if she DIDN'T text him, he could have known, with only a modicum of effort, as someone here has already said. 

[Phoebe70]

Kinda off topic, but does anyone know what actual jobs Jo, Nathan & Uncle Creepy have?  I know Jo did a few low-budget rap videos, and Nathan was selling timeshares and is not going to "college" (french class LOL), but do any of them have any actual, steady jobs?

[Uncle JUICE]

I liked that time where NAthan's weird 'friends' came over and he was talking about college, what were his classes? French and I think "physics"? God, I wish he said math. I bet he goes to Coastal Carolina. Or he's an art student at the University of Phoenix.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Uncle JUICE

[lezlers]

12 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

If Jo had a job or went to school, he couldn't have moved so easily. Nice for Isaac, but not the greatest role model all around. 

Good thing Adam doesn't even have that excuse.  He lives locally, he just a total narcissist doucebag who only chooses to be a dad when it's convienent for him.  But that's still Chelsea's fault....somehow.   ;)

11 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

 Her job, as she has mentioned many times, is to take care of the girls. I think it is unfair to paint Cory as some guy who thinks it is the mother's job to care for children when he has been shown countless times caring for his children. In their 16 & Pregnant episode, Leah went out to party while Cory stayed home and tended to the girls who were 7 weeks old. Cory had to do the laundry because Leah is a lazy bitch. Cory cleaned house because Leah was with her friends. This matter about the doctor appointment was not an argument between these two. It was a discussion about Ali's weight with Cory informing Leah about his concerns. He asked Leah to mention it at Ali's NEXT appointment IN CASE HE COULD NOT GO. He did not tell Leah to call the doctor.

Why were the girlses not with Leah when Ali complained about the backpack? If this had been Cory who dumped his girlses with someone else...

After reading some posts after I posted my original response (I just did quick quote) I came to change my opinion on this. You're absolutely right.   I think I was projecting my own frustrations about being the one in charge of all things having to do with our children despite the fact that my husband and I both work full time.   I agree with you, though.  Leah's definitely in a better position and it sounds as if Corey was just trying to communicate since he might not make the next appointment.

[lezlers]

10 hours ago, Darknight said:

10 hours ago, Darknight said:

I don't understand why girls like Chelsea complain about their children's father. You chose him. You slept with him. Adam has been like this since they've been together. He's not going to change just because you had his kid. Girls with low self esteem get with guys hoping they'll change or hoping a baby will make him stay. It won't. Adam will never change. He's an asshole. Now Aubree will have to deal with his bullshit too. 

 

I look at it a little differently than say, a woman who actively chooses a man and marries him with the explicit intention of starting a family, knowing he's an immature asshole who would likely make a horrible father (then complains nonstop to her friends and family about it.)  She was a dumb teenage girl who accidentally got knocked up.  Her "choice" of father is something both her and Aubree are going to have to live with now for the rest of their lives and I believe she feels awful about it, given the impact it's going to have on Aubree.

10 hours ago, Lexie said:

No it really doesn't because you aren't the parent of either kid.   These moms are controlling shit to fit their fantasy of a happy family and its gross to watch them manipulate kids like that.   

Chelsea tried for years to have Adam fit that fantasy knowing that he is a tool so yeah, Her judgement seems to suck in general.  She would be with any guy who would have her right now 

its cruel to make Aubree wonder if he was coming up till the last minute because she was playing her games and not communicating so Cole could go instead.   

So are stepparents never supposed to get involved in their stepchildren's lives?  My stepfather, who has been in my life for 30+ years, will be very disappointed to hear that.

Edited May 26, 2016 by lezlers

[DNR]

42 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

Kinda off topic, but does anyone know what actual jobs Jo, Nathan & Uncle Creepy have?  I know Jo did a few low-budget rap videos, and Nathan was selling timeshares and is not going to "college" (french class LOL), but do any of them have any actual, steady jobs?

Looks like Uncle Dave is about to take on full time Jenelle nurse-maid / housekeeper role.  He did take a whole week off for her mystery illness ( which must be cured cuz sneak peek for next ep has Jace scout event conflicting with spring break plans lol spring break ???!!!! Lmao ) 

[ReadMeLattice]

54 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

Kinda off topic, but does anyone know what actual jobs Jo, Nathan & Uncle Creepy have?  I know Jo did a few low-budget rap videos, and Nathan was selling timeshares and is not going to "college" (french class LOL), but do any of them have any actual, steady jobs?

Dave is supposedly a pipe fitter/welder. Could very well be untrue though. 

Nathan and Jo don't work except for TM.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Lm2162

[CofCinci]

59 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

Kinda off topic, but does anyone know what actual jobs Jo, Nathan & Uncle Creepy have?  I know Jo did a few low-budget rap videos, and Nathan was selling timeshares and is not going to "college" (french class LOL), but do any of them have any actual, steady jobs?

Jo:  Doesn't seem to be doing much these days except wearing sweatpants during the day.  I wouldn't be surprised if he moves back to PA.
 

Nathan: I don't think he's in college anymore but he does have a paid position with an indoor football league.  He was going to school for psychology (per some old Jenelle tweets), but with his record there is no way he'd be able to get any sort of professional licensure (unless his county has an active veterans court that would help him get his record expunged).  He probably collects VA disability now too.
 

Uncle Creepy: Jenelle's full-time caregiver and I think manager(?) as she is doing more events/endorsements since dating him (and he's right by her side).  Pipefitter day job ended the moment he laid pipe for Jenelle.

They're all milking the MTV teet.
 

Edited May 26, 2016 by CofCinci

[charmed1]

12 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Nathan: I don't think he's in college anymore but he does have a paid position with an indoor football league.  He was going to school for psychology (per some old Jenelle tweets), but with his record there is no way he'd be able to get any sort of professional licensure (unless his county has an active veterans court that would help him get his record expunged).

Is he one of those people who get the crowd pumped and shoot t-shirts out of the cannon? (RIP Maude Flanders)

[Phoebe70]

14 hours ago, Mkay said:

Yes!! You just word things so much better than me. 

 

Of course Adam got the text.  He acknowledges that when he responds to Aubree in the next episode when he says he didn't go because "he has this" meaning his gym/workouts.  All he had to do is respond to the text in one way or another.

He says himself, "I'm not going to change." 

Sorry, Adumb, but posting a photo (judging by the ripped jeans of the person who took it I'm guessing it was your latest ho) of you vegging out watching tv with your child does not make you a good father.  Writing "I'm not going to change" only makes you look like an even bigger a-hole.

[Uncle JUICE]

I hope he has a tattoo that says "No Ragrets." :)

[GreatKazu]

FYI posters who asked why doesn't Ali use her wheelchair when she arrives home from school. Leah keeps the wheelchair AT SCHOOL where it stays all week. 

[lezlers]

7 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

FYI posters who asked why doesn't Ali use her wheelchair when she arrives home from school. Leah keeps the wheelchair AT SCHOOL where it stays all week. 

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  She has her wheelchair at a place where she presumably sits most of the time (save for recess) instead of at home where she's outside playing and going to freaking T-BALL PRACTICE?

I can't with these people.

[poopchute]

10 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

FYI posters who asked why doesn't Ali use her wheelchair when she arrives home from school. Leah keeps the wheelchair AT SCHOOL where it stays all week. 

Good god these people are so stupid.  How is it helping her while it's sitting at the school and she's struggling to get from the car to the house?

[CofCinci]

15 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

FYI posters who asked why doesn't Ali use her wheelchair when she arrives home from school. Leah keeps the wheelchair AT SCHOOL where it stays all week. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by CofCinci

[ClassyCourtHeels]

So about carrying that backpack Leah.......

28 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

FYI posters who asked why doesn't Ali use her wheelchair when she arrives home from school. Leah keeps the wheelchair AT SCHOOL where it stays all week. 

So?

There are 168 hours in a week. If the twins go to school 8 hours a day that means she has wheelchair access 40 hours a week. So that means in a given week she has access to the wheelchair less than 25% of the time. 

[Lemons]

18 hours ago, lezlers said:

I'm not understanding what you expected Chelsea to do here. 

I'm expecting her not to set him up to fail.  And not to lie.  She claims she was going to send him the date and location of the dance.  Then she decided to tell him to look it up himself.  Adam has shown himself to have limited social skills and is not that on the ball.  So yes, work with him.  Give him the details and follow up.  Do it for your child.  Text Adam and give him a deadline.  Don't tell your child that he might show up when you have no indication that he might show up.

[Uncle JUICE]

Why doesn't Adam have the responsibility to "do it for your child", though? Okay, so you're saying he's naturally irresponsible, mending that isn't his baby mama's job anymore.  I just don't think she has any responsibility to that at all, after all the repeated disinterest he's shown. Fuck that guy, if he's so interested, let him change his ways. But he's not going to. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

FYI posters who asked why doesn't Ali use her wheelchair when she arrives home from school. Leah keeps the wheelchair AT SCHOOL where it stays all week. 

..........................................................................................................................I can't with her, I just can't.

[Mkay]

Why isn't it Adams responsibility to not fail his child. If Chelsea did tell him to find out for himself, a simple phone call to the school would have given him all the information he needed. Set a reminder in his phone, write it on the calendar, whatever it takes. Chelsea does not need to hold his hand. He's older than the other dads and they manage. In the next episode he pretty much tells Aubree he didn't go because of the competition. That's sad. Like someone else mentioned you can sign up for texts from the school, reminder by text, email, or simply call the school. He just doesn't care to. It's much easier for him to just blame Chelsea. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Mkay

[Uncle JUICE]

Here's an idea: why not TALK TO YOUR DAUGHTER once in a while? Call her and just see how things are going at school, she'd mention it to you. You dont have to talk to Chelsea any more than to politely say "Can I talk to Aubree?" Even if it's on speakerphone. 

[Lemons]

26 minutes ago, Mkay said:

Chelsea does not need to hold his hand. He's older than the other dads and they manage. In the next episode he pretty much tells Aubree he didn't go because of the competition.

I think he's 25, the same age as Chelsea and the others in this group.  The bottom line is that Chelsea does need to do what's best for Aubrey and if that means going out of her way then she should.  Plenty of fathers never read anything from the school or go on the school's website.  Not unusual. 

I would bet what it came down to is that Adam was not comfortable in a social setting like that.  He is very awkward.   He has gone to her school, silly t-ball and other activities.  This was probably not something he could handle.  I don't know why he wouldn't just text that he couldn't make it.  Or if he actually did text that he couldn't make it. 

[Katt]

My husband teaches at the school our kids attend and I still have to remind him about functions going on there, like, 573,628 times. 

[lezlers]

52 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I'm expecting her not to set him up to fail.  And not to lie.  She claims she was going to send him the date and location of the dance.  Then she decided to tell him to look it up himself.  Adam has shown himself to have limited social skills and is not that on the ball.  So yes, work with him.  Give him the details and follow up.  Do it for your child.  Text Adam and give him a deadline.  Don't tell your child that he might show up when you have no indication that he might show up.

Set him up to fail?  Setting him up to fail would be not telling him about the dance at all.  She told him about it.  Unless Adumb has some developmental disabilities we're all unaware of, he's perfectly capable of either 1. looking up the information himself 2. following up with Chelsea 3.  Letting Aubree know either way. 

Why are we treating Adumb like a damaged child?  I'm really not understanding. 

The only thing we agree on is that Chelsea shouldn't have put Aubree in a position where she'd continue to wonder if he wasn't going to show.  That is on her.  But she is under no obligation to chase Adumb around town trying to wrangle him about this dance.  That is not her responsibility.  At all. 

[CofCinci]

Just to play Devil's advocate.....  Some schools do not post their events on their website, so even if Adam searched, it might not be there.
But.... we all know that Adam had no interest in going.

[lezlers]

15 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I think he's 25, the same age as Chelsea and the others in this group.  The bottom line is that Chelsea does need to do what's best for Aubrey and if that means going out of her way then she should.  Plenty of fathers never read anything from the school or go on the school's website.  Not unusual. 

I would bet what it came down to is that Adam was not comfortable in a social setting like that.  He is very awkward.   He has gone to her school, silly t-ball and other activities.  This was probably not something he could handle.  I don't know why he wouldn't just text that he couldn't make it.  Or if he actually did text that he couldn't make it. 

Can you please explain why you're not putting any blame on Adam at all?  I'm genuinely curious.  You're going to great leaps and bounds to avoid assigning any responsibility to him with respect to being a decent father to Aubree.  Is there information out there the rest of us aren't privy to?  I'm honestly asking because I don't get it.  What are his expectations for being a decent father?  What responsibilities would you assign to him, personally, in order to be considered a decent dad to Aubree?

Edited May 26, 2016 by lezlers

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, lezlers said:

 

So are stepparents never supposed to get involved in their stepchildren's lives?  My stepfather, who has been in my life for 30+ years, will be very disappointed to hear that.

I think the poster was trying to say it would be better for Chelsea to let the relationship develop organically rather than pushing Cole on Aubrey 24/7. Aubrey is six. At this point she's starting to realize her father is an unreliable douche. It sucks, but it is what it is. However I also don't think it's healthy for Aubree to be badgered constantly with questions like "Isn't Cole great?" "Aren't you sooooo happy Cole is here?" "Isn't it fun to do x/y/z with Cole?". I just think it's a little manipulative. Just let the kid work out her feelings at her own pace, there's no need to oversell it.

[Uncle JUICE]

6 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Can you please explain why you're not putting any blame on Adam at all?  I'm genuinely curious.  You're going to great leaps and bounds to avoid assigning any responsibility to him with respect to being a decent father to Aubree.  Do you know him or something?  Is there information out there the rest of us aren't privy to?  I'm honestly asking because I don't get it.

Seconded. This is nothing more than deadbeat dad behavior. After six neglectful years, he isn't owed any benefit of doubt. 

[Lexie]

13 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

Nah, I don't think so.  

None of us are the parents.  We're people on the internet talking about the show.  So, in this context...I think all our perceptions do matter, but if you don't think mine does because it disagrees with you, feel free to click ignore.  Moving on.  

I also think Chelsea did her job.  She texted Adam and the rest was on him.   Him not texting back is his game, not her's.  She's not his Mom.  And she made sure Cole was there for her daughter.  She did the best she could given the bad choice she made as a 16 yr old to have a baby with that suck of a man.  I am glad she is no longer enabling Adam.  Calling him a bunch of times to see if he is still coming to her soccer game...only to have him not show up anyways.  Adam is either gonna be a dad or not...and let's be real, when the camera is not rolling...it's a big ol' not.  

It doesn't matter in the sense that we don't have control over manipulating children and alienating the fathers of these kids.   You can also feel free to ignore.  

also I'm inclined to believe that mtv does edit the fathers to look worse than they are.   They made sure to include Adam saying that they would edit him out when he said how he was edited unfairly on an aftershock but then apparently edited out jenelles boyfriend saying that he would beat his kid if she ruined his phone.   I don't think the dads are as bad as they seem and I also don't think the moms are the goody goodys that they are portrayed to be at times.   

[HeySandyStrange]

On one hand, it is best for Chelsea for the sake of Aubree to be as forthcoming as possible to Adam about events in Aubrey's life. Even giving him information that he could find out on his own, so at least Chelsea can honestly say she tried.

But other then that, there is absolutely no reason that Chelsea should have to constantly remind or hound Adam to keep up with his daughter's life. They are not married or even in a relationship. Frankly, even if they were together I think it would be overdone for Chelsea to have to push Adam to accept responsibility. She isn't his mother, and social awkwardness or not, he is an adult. A very lazy, arrogant one at that. It is not Chelsea's, Randy's, or Aubrey's job to enable him. 

[Lexie]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

I look at it a little differently than say, a woman who actively chooses a man and marries him with the explicit intention of starting a family, knowing he's an immature asshole who would likely make a horrible father (then complains nonstop to her friends and family about it.)  She was a dumb teenage girl who accidentally got knocked up.  Her "choice" of father is something both her and Aubree are going to have to live with now for the rest of their lives and I believe she feels awful about it, given the impact it's going to have on Aubree.

So are stepparents never supposed to get involved in their stepchildren's lives?  My stepfather, who has been in my life for 30+ years, will be very disappointed to hear that.

I never said not get involved.  I said they shouldn't be replacing biological fathers and the moms shouldn't be playing head games with little kids out of spite and bitterness.  Big difference.  

[Lemons]

15 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Can you please explain why you're not putting any blame on Adam at all?  I'm genuinely curious.  You're going to great leaps and bounds to avoid assigning any responsibility to him with respect to being a decent father to Aubree.  Is there information out there the rest of us aren't privy to?  I'm honestly asking because I don't get it.  What are his expectations for being a decent father?  What responsibilities would you assign to him, personally, in order to be considered a decent dad to Aubree?

He will probably always have a limited role in raising Aubrey.  I do see him as limited in many ways with probably learning and mental health issues although we can only guess about these things.  I give him credit because he is starting to own some of the horrible things he has done and he has publicly said that he is working on staying out of trouble, working and owning a home.   Granted it's only been a short while but he is doing what he said he wants to do.  People need to be given a second chance and it would be nice to see a relationship develop between him and his 2 daughters.  He doesn't need to be set up for failure. 

Chelsea has made it know that she wants him gone (just make out the child support check to Chelsea/Cole).  I think Chelsea is being shady and wouldn't put it past her to sabotage the relationship between Aubrey and Adam and try to push Cole as the replacement. 

 

Of course we see how well that's working for Kail and Javi.  Nice going make Isaac call Javi "dad".

[jacksgirl]

We had the sweetest child in our PreK hall last year. Emma had a muscular disease (not sure the name). Emma drove her wheelchair everywhere- playground, bathroom, firedrills, you name it. It was hard at first, but we all got used to it as did the kids. Emma would go home daily with her mom or dad in said chair. It can be done.

[Chicken Wing]

I consider Jo to be a good, involved dad. I've heard that Kail says he isn't as involved as he appears on the show when the cameras aren't around, but from what we do see he is involved in Isaac's life. He's present and he participates. And yet ... he claims he had no idea about Isaac's preschool "graduation." Kail apparently didn't actually call or text him about it. She assumed he knew about it because there was a big sign about it at the school. He didn't notice. There's a million signs and posters all over a school. He didn't realize what that one advertising a "moving on ceremony" or whatever it said was.

My long and seemingly irrelevant point? As some posters have shared of their own personal experiences, even involved fathers need to have these things pointed out to them. As Aubree's father, it is in fact Adam's responsibility to be involved and know about things on his own. He shouldn't have to need someone to go out of their way to tell him these things. Chelsea shouldn't have to go out of her way to tell him these things. She has no responsibility to do so, because he could just as well learn this stuff himself, and should. But I think it's good that she did tell him anyway. She tried. Knowing that he was most likely going to let Aubree down again anyway, she still put in the extra effort to reach out and tell him stuff that he, Mr. Supposed Great Dad, could have learned himself if he kept up with Aubree's school or even called her once in a while to ask her what's going on, as Aubree undoubtedly would have told him herself then. But given the fact that it's entirely possible for such things to not cross his notice even if he was Mr. Supposed Great Dad, because some, if not a lot of, parents are like that, I'm not going to beat him up too much on his not knowing as a further example of his being a deadbeat.

Not showing up even after he was told about it? Yeah, I got nothing.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Mkay]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Here's an idea: why not TALK TO YOUR DAUGHTER once in a while? Call her and just see how things are going at school, she'd mention it to you. You dont have to talk to Chelsea any more than to politely say "Can I talk to Aubree?" Even if it's on speakerphone. 

Exactly this! He doesn't have to talk to Chelsea. Just ask to speak with Aubree. 

[lezlers]

14 minutes ago, Lemons said:

He will probably always have a limited role in raising Aubrey.  I do see him as limited in many ways with probably learning and mental health issues although we can only guess about these things.  I give him credit because he is starting to own some of the horrible things he has done and he has publicly said that he is working on staying out of trouble, working and owning a home.   Granted it's only been a short while but he is doing what he said he wants to do.  People need to be given a second chance and it would be nice to see a relationship develop between him and his 2 daughters.  He doesn't need to be set up for failure. 

Chelsea has made it know that she wants him gone (just make out the child support check to Chelsea/Cole).  I think Chelsea is being shady and wouldn't put it past her to sabotage the relationship between Aubrey and Adam and try to push Cole as the replacement. 

 

Of course we see how well that's working for Kail and Javi.  Nice going make Isaac call Javi "dad".

But why are we assuming he's got learning and mental health issues as opposed to just being your run of the mill douchebag?  I mean, the world is full of them.  I'm still struggling to understand why Adumb is being given the benefit of the doubt and a different standard for being a decent father than any other person in this franchise.  And how has he not been given a second chance?  Chelsea continues to inform him about Aubree's events and he continues to blow them off without a peep.  If he so desperately wants his "second chance" to become a decent father, maybe he could return a text?  That doesn't take too much effort and won't conflict with his social awkwardness (which I've seen no evidence to support as a defense.)  Why is he not even expected to do the bare minimum of texting Chelsea "when and where is the dance?"  or simply texting her with "sorry, I can't make it, tell Aubree I'm sorry."  

I get that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt and a second chance but he's not making even a modicum of effort.  He's made NONE.  Texting someone is the bare bones minimum of involvement and he won't even do that.

Also, I don't blame Chelsea for wanting him gone.  If my kids had a douchebag father who constantly let them down and broke their hearts I'd want him gone too. 

[Katt]

I see what Lemons is saying. Personally, I would nag the fuck out of the deadbeat dad in the hope my kid wouldn't be disappointed. At least I'd know I'd bloody tried my best in the situation. I know there's a good chance Adam won't show up, but I would try not to act like I knew he wouldn't in front of Aubree or say something like, "just in case your dad can't make it for some reason, Cole would love to take you..." I would do this simply to save my kid having long lasting issues rather than doing it to save face for the other parent. 

My dad was less than useless and he was the only parent I lived with growing up. He'd have asked for overtime on purpose for that night and then completely kicked off if I had the audacity to suggest another person take me. 

[toodywoody]

2 hours ago, ClassyCourtHeels said:

So about carrying that backpack Leah.......

So?

There are 168 hours in a week. If the twins go to school 8 hours a day that means she has wheelchair access 40 hours a week. So that means in a given week she has access to the wheelchair less than 25% of the time. 

Oh my lort, thank you thank you thank you. so here is the backpack and looks who is not carrying it. Hyprocrite