S04.E10: Norman

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Fable said:

No matter how creepy this show gets, I love that they always manage to insert some dark comedy.  The scene with Chick was especially funny as was the one with Norman losing his shit in the middle of the eulogy.  

I felt badly for Dylan.  He looked so hurt and puzzled when Norman shut him out, even though he likely just dodged a bullet.   I wonder how he is going to react to the news of Norma's death.  

It's going to be difficult to watch this show next season now that Norma is gone.  The Norma/Norman relationship was really the heart and soul of this series, and as great of job as Freddie doing, I just don't know how interesting it will be without the dynamic Norma and Norman brought to the show.  Thankfully it will only be 10 episodes, time enough to wrap up the loose ends with Dylan, Emma and Romero.  

I think Vera will be seen, even if we see her as a stuffed, but rotting corpse. Norman will still see "Norma" sitting there. He will dress up like her, walk about the house, speak in her voice, carry on whole conversations. Anything to give the illusion of his mother being alive. And when danger or desire come close to breaking that illusion, well we all know what happens. I wonder what will happen when Chick comes back to check on Norman? I don't want Norman to kill him because he's really grown on me. Boy, I bet Chick really regrets meeting that family. At first he seemed so menacing, but he didn't know who he was messing with.

[spiderpig]

I'm so glad Romero survived this season, and not just because I simply think Nestor Carbonell is The Gorge.  Yes, I am shallow, but I like Romero as a character too. He and Norma were two deeply flawed personalities who brought out the best in one another.

Damn you, Norman!

[Ohwell]

I haven't watched on a regular basis since the first season, but what was Norma's relationship with the rest of the townspeople?  It seemed strange that no one attended the funeral.  Wouldn't word have gotten out that she was dead?  Or were they afraid of Norman and that's why they didn't show?  I imagine a lot of folks thought he was "strange."

[BatmanBeatles]

As far as I know, Norma didn't have any friends. She messed up the budding friendship in season 2.

[tom87]

So did Norman lie when he said it has only been 2 weeks that all this stuff has happened?

[Rustybones]

I wonder if Norman will "stuff" his mother?  Remember when he told the undertaker he does taxidermy? He knows what embalming is.  Then again, it may be too late for that.

Can someone please refresh my memory about Juno?

[FoundTime]

Juno was a little dog Norman befriended and kind of adopted in season one (?) who was then run over by a car. Norman couldn't bear the loss and was just starting to learn taxidermy from Emma's father and so did a little "work" on Juno. Though I love Juno as a ...character, I guess... having just rewatched Psycho on Mother's Day (thanks, Sundance!) Norman goes out of his way to tell Marion that

Spoiler

he never stuffed dogs, just birds

. But I'll handwave it 'cause this is such a great show otherwise.

Speaking of which, though it squicked me out when Norman glued Mother's eyes open, it was not out of character, and I thought it set up nicely the lengths to which he will continue to go to keep Mother with him physically.

Somebody posted last week that the show should end with Marion Crane pulling up to the motel in a driving rain. ("Twelve rooms, twelve vacancies!") That is my perfect ending too. We already know the rest of the story.

I thought it was actually very smart to handle Norma's death as the show did, rather than leaving it as a cliffhanger. It left the last episode to show the immediate fallout. (I'm noticing other shows are doing this too, with the "big event" in the penultimate episode of the season, though I can't think of any examples right now.) I expected Mother to make her first post-death appearance by the end of the ep and was not disappointed. Norman digging up her body was interesting; in the movie,

Spoiler

it's stated that it was a weighted coffin that was buried

.

Had to snerk at the song Norma was playing at the piano at the end -- "I'll be home for Christmas" -- check -- "if only in my dreams." Hee.

[queenanne]

I get that I may be a minority but... while to some extent this isn’t the show’s fault because yes, “everybody knew what they were getting into”, I’m fairly sure that Cuse and Ehrin spent a fair chunk of time before the show premiered, telling everyone that they should watch even knowing how it will end, because reasons, destination at least as much fun as the journey, who knows what surprises they will pack in and a lot of story to tell, blah blah blah, which doesn’t say “we will rewrite the canon” nor does anyone particularly want it to, but - if they’re not going to swap out Highmore for an adult, they could, and take us to a different starting point.  I’m not saying they should, but they could, which probably is the type of thing I was envisioning in my subconscious as them meaning when I agreed to watch.

Because of the pre-show blandishments of the producers, I was very much disappointed by this ending, because I feel like Norma – real Norma, not Noman’s Head-Canon Norma, which is in no wise the same thing – leaves a big hole, which is probably a counter-effect of both (a) casting such a strong actress; (b) needing to cast such a strong actress.  Maybe Vera was too good. 

Because I realized, as I was watching it, that I don’t want to watch a show where “Norman wins”, thus it seems to me that, agree or disagree on the methods as we might, it probably would have been better not to set up a scenario where Norman wins too early in the canon.  I know, a whole season left to go, but everyone swallowed everything he said this time around and we know what happens, so it’s pretty clear that fifth season is just going to be a batch of wheel-spinning paper tigers again, as everyone to come swallows everything Norman says like gospel truth, which bleh.  I can wait for that for far longer than 7 months.

[mwell345]

Quote

I hope I never, ever see Freddie Highmore in person because he's too damn realistic. 

I thought the same thing - If I ever met him I think I would be a little scared!!!!  He truly deserves an Emmy because he is brilliant.  He carried this episode.

I also thought Chick was a goner - did he actually see Norma on the couch?  It seemed like he did, but I wasn't sure.

We're in full Psycho mode now!

[Rustybones]

Vera tweeted with a picture of her and "chest compression Norma."

Edited May 17, 2016 by Rustybones

[spiderpig]

Casting Vera Farmiga was genius.  We oldsters who saw the movie when it came out always pictured living Norma as an old bun-wearing biddie like Auntie Em. Vera perfectly captured the combination of spontaneous crazy with a lovely, soft charm and vulnerability.

And she's so uniquely beautiful.

[spiderpig]

56 minutes ago, FoundTime said:

it's stated that it was a weighted coffin that was buried

 

Had to snerk at the song Norma was playing at the piano at the end -- "I'll be home for Christmas" -- check -- "if only in my dreams." Hee.

And they were singing another song earlier that created an earworm for the rest of the show.  As a Californian it finally hit me -"C&H, pure cane sugar - from Hawaii, land of the sun..."

[Anela]

17 hours ago, Judois said:

Freddie Highmore brought me to tears. When he put the gun in his mouth,I wanted to hug him. Yet he scares the ever living crap out of me at the same time. 

 

6 hours ago, Rustybones said:

I just watched the finale again, and it was worse the second time.  I actually felt such sympathy for Norman, wishing he could have received the help he needed years ago.  Instead he had a mother who loved him so much she couldn't admit even to herself that something terrible was wrong with him.  Freddie really got to me this time.  This show really got to me like no other I can recall.

Ditto to the above. Damn. 

(And, yes, the eye thing was creepy. So glad I didn't watch before I fell asleep, last night.)

[Ailianna]

9 hours ago, Rustybones said:

I think Norman will have to get rid of Romero or there's a chance Romero could stand to inherit 1/2 of Norma's estate.  I doubt she had a will.  Also, Norman has no money coming in, how can he financially continue to keep Bates Motel running?

I'm sure Norma had no will.  So I'm pretty sure that Romero, as her husband, would get everything, and Norman wouldn't.  Romero may let him keep the house/motel, but I'm not sure that he has to.  I know that Norman has the motel later in life, but that could be more bad blood between them.  Or Norman finds Romero finding Norma...

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Because I realized, as I was watching it, that I don’t want to watch a show where “Norman wins”, thus it seems to me that, agree or disagree on the methods as we might, it probably would have been better not to set up a scenario where Norman wins too early in the canon.

 

 

What did Norman win exactly? He's barely out of high school, so 18-19 tops and has lost everything since he was raised to believe that his mother was truly all he had in this world. He's all alone in a creepy, weird ass motel with his dead mother's corpse. He has lost ALL sense of reality. He cannot function as a normal person anymore, meaning he doesn't connect with other people so he's not falling in love or having relationships, hell even friendships. How in the hell is Norman winning - winning what?  

 

Quote

I know, a whole season left to go, but everyone swallowed everything he said this time around and we know what happens, so it’s pretty clear that fifth season is just going to be a batch of wheel-spinning paper tigers again, as everyone to come swallows everything Norman says like gospel truth, which bleh.

 

 

How did everyone swallow what Norman said when Romero was pretty much on the warpath against him and seemed headed to kill him because he firmly believes Norman killed Norma. Dylan doesn't even know Norma's dead and I'm pretty sure he'll probably suspect Norman just like Romero did, even if he may not want to. I thought the detective's expression was pretty ambiguous. I'm not sure she totally bought Norman's story and why would she? She knows, based on what she told Romero that this was clearly a murder/suicide attempt and Norman pretty much admitted he was in a mental hospital. Thing is, believing and suspecting something is all well and good but meaningless unless you can prove it. And I think that might be the bigger issue with Norman - proving he's guilty. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[raven]

If Romero gets the house/motel, no way he lets Norman keep it.  He hates Norman and wants him dead.  He would burn everything to the ground first.

[spiderpig]

Kudos to the actress playing Detective Chambers. She wasn't buying Norman's act for one second.

[queenanne]

16 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

What did Norman win exactly? He's barely out of high school, so 18-19 tops and has lost everything since he was raised to believe that his mother was truly all he had in this world. He's all alone in a creepy, weird ass motel with his dead mother's corpse. He has lost ALL sense of reality. He cannot function as a normal person anymore, meaning he doesn't connect with other people so he's not falling in love or having relationships, hell even friendships. How in the hell is Norman winning - winning what?  

 

How did everyone swallow what Norman said when Romero was pretty much on the warpath against him and seemed headed to kill him because he firmly believes Norman killed Norma. Dylan doesn't even know Norma's dead and I'm pretty sure he'll probably suspect Norman just like Romero did, even if he may not want to. I thought the detective's expression was pretty ambiguous. I'm not sure she totally bought Norman's story and why would she? She knows, based on what she told Romero that this was clearly a murder/suicide attempt and Norman pretty much admitted he was in a mental hospital. Thing is, believing and suspecting something is all well and good but meaningless unless you can prove it. And I think that might be the bigger issue with Norman - proving he's guilty. 

Well, he's alive, isn't he?  Some would probably term that "winning" over being cold and lifeless, an option which Norma doesn't have because Norman never told her "the plan".  She died smiling because she thought her son was telling her a pleasant story, not because she'd agreed to a suicide pact.

Also, I'll draw odds right now that Romero and Dylan lose their lives in any head-to-head against Norman, though time will tell.  

[raven]

23 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Kudos to the actress playing Detective Chambers. She wasn't buying Norman's act for one second.

I thought the same thing.  With all of his odd behavior, mental history, etc. I do think Romero could make some kind of push for an investigation, though beating on the poor guy at the furnace repair place doesn't help.  I don't think Romero will be in jail for long.  Still, someone has to make a push, I'm not sure Chambers or anyone else would look into things on their own. 

WRT to Norman "winning" - it was always going to end that way.  Considering what we know of his future, it would be better that he had died.  I like that we were shown Norma as a flesh and blood person, with hopes, dreams and a tragic past that contributed to her making her own tragic mistakes.  She was such an overwhelming and vital presence that the show made me care about her and feel badly for her, even if I was reallllly angry and frustrated with her. 

If Norman could face what he has done without his mind breaking, he would kill himself.  We've seen that.  So no, it doesn't help Norma, but we know there is no normal life for Norman, even if he lives to be 90, he will always be insane.

Quote

Also, I'll draw odds right now that Romero and Dylan lose their lives in any head-to-head against Norman, though time will tell.  

I don't want to put words in your mouth - it seems like you might be thinking the show is presenting Norman as a twisted anti-hero, overcoming all odds?  I'm not sure how they will tie things up, but I don't get a sense of Norman-character-worship.  We were always going to see how Norman ended up where he did; my surprise is that we'll see what came after he got there but before what happens in the movie.  I have some hope for Dylan and Emma; Romero I don't know.    Romero may be broken beyond repair by losing Norma.

[designing1]

If Dylan and Emma stay away they'll be winners. Aside from that there are no winners in this tragedy -- unless you count the viewers, who are being treated to top-notch storytelling and truly stellar acting.

[jewel21]

2 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Kudos to the actress playing Detective Chambers. She wasn't buying Norman's act for one second.

That would be Molly Price. She played police woman Faith Yokas on Third Watch and was my second favourite character on the show. It's nice to see her on TV again.

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, raven said:

If Romero gets the house/motel, no way he lets Norman keep it.  He hates Norman and wants him dead.  He would burn everything to the ground first.

If Romero dies relatively soon, the house and motel would probably then go to Norman. If this season only covered a couple weeks, next season probably will too, and I really don't think he'll survive next season. There probably won't even be time for the legal paperwork to transfer ownership of anything. Plus, Romero has no heirs, so I think Norman would get it.

[RemyRose]

7 hours ago, tom87 said:

So did Norman lie when he said it has only been 2 weeks that all this stuff has happened?

No. When Dylan got suspicious about Audrey, he went down to the motel and saw that she checked in 12/3 and Christmas hasn't happened yet (unless that last scene with Norman and Mother was Christmas) then its been about 3 weeks at the most.

Edited May 18, 2016 by RemyRose

[BatmanBeatles]

I thought of Pet Semetary when Norman dug up Norma. Come to think of it, Chick more or less told Norman "Sometimes dead is better."

[thuganomics85]

Missed it last night, so I'm glad I managed to remain relatively unspoiled.  As much as it pains me, I'm actually glad the show had the guts to not pull a fast one and Norma truly is dead.  Again, I'm sure Vera Farmiga will be back for the fifth (final?) season as "Mother", but Norma?  Poor messed-up, unhinged, kooky, yet still likable Norma?  Yep, she's dead.  And it is all because she just couldn't see how messed up her "little boy" was, and pused away everyone who wanted to protect her.  Tragic.

As great as Vera Farmiga always is, I have no issues with Norman front and center, going forward.  I always suspected this is where the show was heading, and I think Freddie Highmore is absolutely nailing.  He has made Norman a character who I truly fear and am creeped the fuck out by, and yet a small part of me still feels bad for him.  He truly seems to not comprehend the horrors he has committed.  But he is just way too dangerous and I dread who will be the next victims in his reign of terror.

I guess Romero getting arrested for perjury will not stick, but is just a way to keep him from going after Norman right then and now.  I have to think Romero will try again and I both can't wait for it, but dread it.  Nestor Carbonell nailed Romero's grief and anger in this episode.

I also dread that Dylan will find out what happen to Norma, and come back to figure it out.  Please, Dylan.  For your own sake and Emma's, just stay in Seattle.  Remember the few good times, and just go on with you life.

As usual, the show finds some way to work in dark humor throughout it all.  I couldn't stop laughing over all the times Norman awkwardly dropped or slammed Norma's body.  Ah, corpse humor!

Well done to everyone involved.  I've always liked this show, but I think this might be the best season of Bates Motel yet.  I just hope someone sends enough screeners to voters, so Vera can get nominated again and maybe Freddie can get one too.  Both of them were perfection this season.

[RCharter]

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

If Romero dies relatively soon, the house and motel would probably then go to Norman. If this season only covered a couple weeks, next season probably will too, and I really don't think he'll survive next season. There probably won't even be time for the legal paperwork to transfer ownership of anything. Plus, Romero has no heirs, so I think Norman would get it.

I'm not sure what state they are in, but since the hotel/house are not community property, its likely that Norman and Dylan would get 2/3 of the estate, and Romero may be entitled to 1/3.  But he wouldn't get the entire estate.  I'm not sure if they are going to explore the legal property rights issues, but what an interesting concept for them to all own the property together.  And of course, I have no idea if there is a mortgage on the house/motel and how that would come into play.

[RCharter]

11 hours ago, queenanne said:

Because I realized, as I was watching it, that I don’t want to watch a show where “Norman wins”, thus it seems to me that, agree or disagree on the methods as we might, it probably would have been better not to set up a scenario where Norman wins too early in the canon.  I know, a whole season left to go, but everyone swallowed everything he said this time around and we know what happens, so it’s pretty clear that fifth season is just going to be a batch of wheel-spinning paper tigers again, as everyone to come swallows everything Norman says like gospel truth, which bleh.  I can wait for that for far longer than 7 months.

I agree, as you said, we all knew what was going to happen....and so I don't fault the writers for having Norman "win" in the final season.  At the same time, that doesn't particularly sound like an interesting show to me....where Norman either kills everyone or outsmarts them.  So, while I don't fault the writers, I doubt I would really want to watch the final season unless it turned out I was wrong.

I certainly think Romero is going to try to prove that Norman did it, but I think Romero will die.  Or maybe land in jail and end up killing himself.  But we all know in the end that Romero isn't going to win or else Norman wouldn't be living in that house with Norma's remains.

I guess its a tribute to FH's acting that I wanted to punch him when he smugly gave Romero back that ring.

[Rustybones]

3 hours ago, RCharter said:

I'm not sure what state they are in, but since the hotel/house are not community property, its likely that Norman and Dylan would get 2/3 of the estate, and Romero may be entitled to 1/3.  But he wouldn't get the entire estate.  I'm not sure if they are going to explore the legal property rights issues, but what an interesting concept for them to all own the property together.  And of course, I have no idea if there is a mortgage on the house/motel and how that would come into play.

They're in Oregon where the law states if a spouse dies without a will the husband would receive 1/2 of the assets, with any children getting the other 1/2.  So Romero will have to be taken out one way or another.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Well, he's alive, isn't he?

Yes, with no one but his dead mother's corpse and his delusions. Such an amazing life. While I understand the feeling of not wanting to see Norman get away with his crimes, ymmv but I don't see that as the character winning or that the writers intend on making it so. The tragedy of this show in my opinion is that no one won - Norma lost her life because she clung so hard to her kid and wouldn't accept the reality of how dangerous he was and Norman lost by never having a chance, until it was too late, to deal with his mental issues. So Norma ended up six feet under and Norman ended up a batshit crazy shell, locked in a delusional world where his dead mother is still alive and having no sense of reality anymore. Not to mention his killing people. Nobody won anything in this story (well assuming Dylan does not stay away which is safest for him) and that's why it's so tragic.

Edited May 18, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[BonnieD]

Quote

Also, people in movies and TV shows always dig the neatest rectangular holes!

Absolutely on this! It drives me absolutely crazy to see neat rectangular and DEEP holes dug in all these tv shows and movies. It's just not that easy! Espcially digging in the woods with all the tree roots. I've done it. I know (insert creepy maniacal laughter here).
Are we allowed or not allowed to reference facts from the Psycho movies? Do they have to be hidden with spoilers? Just in case...
 

Spoiler

Since we know Norman's sheriff step father was murdered and his car disposed of in the swamp - I think this was told in Psycho II - it's quite clear that Romero is the last character who needs to be dispatched before the show ends. Logic would make it early in the next season, because he couldn't be allowed to survive for long. But they may drag it out to the very end of the season. Either way, law enforcement will assume the sheriff took off due to his crimes so they'll be looking far afield for him. This makes it easy for Norman to 'disappear' him.

I had my fingers crossed about Dylan and Emma making it out of town and with no reason to look back. The show provided that. Dylan is ready to finally give up on his family so we can pray he never comes back to check on them next season. Yet somehow, I fear he will. Since Dylan and Emma are invented for the TV series, they are the only question marks left to be solved.

[sugarbaker design]

Quote

Are we allowed or not allowed to reference facts from the Psycho movies? Do they have to be hidden with spoilers? Just in case...

Has it been established what is canon and what isn't?  I'm a big fan of original Hitchcock Psycho.  Will always DVR it when it airs on TCM, even if it's just to listen to Herrmann's awesome opening credits score.  I've never seen any of the sequels.  What is considered canon by Cuse/Ehrin?

[FanOfTheFans]

The actor playing Chick really sells that role but he still is to me beyond creepy. How many of you would want him knocking on your door and introducing himself as your neighbor?   No thank you, not me anyway.  I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop with him. 

[Peanut6711]

11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

If Romero dies relatively soon, the house and motel would probably then go to Norman. If this season only covered a couple weeks, next season probably will too, and I really don't think he'll survive next season. There probably won't even be time for the legal paperwork to transfer ownership of anything. Plus, Romero has no heirs, so I think Norman would get it.

Don't forget Dylan! Although sadly he often does seem like an afterthought in that crazy family, perhaps to his benefit though. If there was no will, he would receive a potion too. As well, Caleb could possibly stake part of a claim as well as a living relative, depending on the state legalities. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Norma did have a will leaving everything to Norman. She only recently married Romero so he could easily have been left out by the will being older than their marriage, and it wouldn't surprise me if she slighted Dylan. This would easily allow Norman the house and motel to set the stage for what we know of him owning from the movie lore.  

Considering the season ended on this episode and not the previous one (which I personally thought made a better finale), I suspect when we pick  up next season it will be months ahead. Possibly Spring. This would allow the show to jump ahead to Norman running the motel, Romera perhaps refocusing his efforts back on catching Norman after dealing with his own legal issues, and Dylan perhaps dropping by (maybe Romera finally got a hold of him) and learning the truth--all things possibly needed to propel the show forward toward "The End." ;-)

1 hour ago, BonnieD said:

Are we allowed or not allowed to reference facts from the Psycho movies? Do they have to be hidden with spoilers? Just in case...

I hope not. Hiding references to the original movie seems silly. It's been out for over 50 years! Not to sound mean but if someone hasn't seen it and are "spoiled" it's hardly anyone's fault but their own for not having already watched it or at the very least knowing the basic plot as there are so many references in popular culture to such an iconic movie and director. Not to mention all the sequels and then the remake from the last decade or so. Referencing Psycho alongside Bates Motel is a natural discussion. It's what happens when you analyze and critique film. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Peanut6711

[sugarbaker design]

A friend and co-worker, who also watches BM, just asked me what Norman said to Norma (Norma's body) when he bent over her at the funeral home.  All I can remember is Norma's eyes opening, and that affected me so deeply I cannot remember what he said.

[Madding crowd]

I'm a huge fan of Psycho and Hitchcok movies in general. I wasn't sure if I would like Bates Motel, but I have been a big fan, mostly due to the performances of Vera and Freddie. I understand the death of Norma was necessary, but I think the show will suffer a lot without her. Norman seeing Norma in his head is just not the same thing, I also am very fond of Romero, but don't see any ending for him but death. 

I think the one thing missing for me is that Anthony Perkins had a certain charm, so I could see women being taken in by him. He was also very handsome. Freddie is neither handsome nor charming, even in an adolescent way and I think the show creators decided to go with a higher creepy factor. I cannot imagine anyone going to the Bates Motel, finding Freddie and choosing to check in. I do wonder what next season will bring. I don't want Dylan to come back, and I can only imagine we will have to watch the other characters slowly being killed off.

I do agree with those who said the series should end with Marion Crane checking into the motel. I think that setting the series in modern times means they can play around a bit with the story. They kind of have to. In today's climate, people don't usually check into random, creepy looking motels, people have cell phones, etc. They have done an ok job (the decision to have Norma dress like she is in the 50's has kind of bugged me) but going forward, they have to decide whether to just follow the script and show a bunch of murders, or if they can come up with something else to entice viewers. 

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Madding crowd- I think FH can play handsome.  I thought he looked kind of handsome when he was all dirty and tousled in this ep.

YMMV but I've seen the comment before of Anthony Perkins' Norman having this charm that one could buy women trusting him while Freddie doesn't and I have never seen that myself. I found Perkins' portrayal of Norman just as creepy as Freddie and always felt from the start that Freddie clearly watched the movie and while not imitating (because Freddie's too good of an actor to just imitate another actor's performance IMO) Perkins, did draw some inspiration from the actor and his performance. 

IMO Perkins' Norman was not charming in the least - what he was, was seemingly harmless. But I always felt when watching the movie that right from the start the character had a slight creepiness and weirdness to him. That conversation with Marion after he brings her the sandwich is tense and awkward as hell because you just keep sensing that something is not totally right or at least I did.

And to me, Freddie has that exact same quality as Norman. It's not that Norman is oh so charming that he got women to trust him, it's that he comes across as harmless and even a little vulnerable and frail. Norman would be total catnip for any woman wanting to "save" some guy. And that's what makes him so scary and dangerous because you don't see the danger until it's far too late. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Curious5]

Funniest scene?  Norman opening up the car door and Norma falling out!

Least realistic scenes.  Norman digging the grave site.  He doesn't have enough muscles to do anything.  And his carrying Norma up the stair - total insult.

[peacheslatour]

I totally agree truthaboutluv, Perkins and Highmore both have a boyish naivete that would make one feel like Norman is just a sweet kid, probably bullied and not very popular with his peers. We've all known people like that and they do give off kind of a creepy but harmless vibe. I think Freddie nailed it and IMO he's more than got the chops to carry next season. Emmy voters- are you listening?

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

 finding Freddie and choosing to check in. I do wonder what next season will bring. I don't want Dylan to come back, and I can only imagine we will have to watch the other characters slowly being killed off.

I don't want Dylan back but I have to admit I am confused as to how they will handle it. Maybe the show runners are just messing with us and he won't return. I can see Dylan not knowing about Norma's death for a few weeks or so but much longer than that will strain credulity.  I can't imagine Dylan not checking the web page of the home town newspaper just to see what is happening or finding out about Romero ( I don't live in the area of my family but still check the newspaper in the town from time to time). But the more concerning issue for me is that Dylan will know the moment he hears about Norma that Norman is very dangerous (remember he knows about Emma's mom) and will clearly do whatever he can to end Norman's danger. At this point, I am wondering if Dylan won't be the person who comes back to the hotel after Marion Crane is killed and finds Norma in the basement.  I don't see how Dylan could know of Norma's death and not know he needs to act.  I am not really worried about Dylan. Norman can only win when his victim lets his or her guard down. Dylan knows everything and is much more savvy. I am predicting right now he will be the one to end Norman's reign of terror.

[Peanut6711]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I totally agree truthaboutluv, Perkins and Highmore both have a boyish naivete that would make one feel like Norman is just a sweet kid, probably bullied and not very popular with his peers. We've all known people like that and they do give off kind of a creepy but harmless vibe. I think Freddie nailed it and IMO he's more than got the chops to carry next season. Emmy voters- are you listening?

I agree completely with your assessment. The Norman character isn't meant to lure women in w/his handsomeness; he's supposed to appear harmless and meek. It's the whole "couldn't harm a fly" perception. He isn't some Romeo that women are sexually attracted to and that's what gets them killed. It's actually the other way around. Norman is attracted to them and then "Mother" gets jealous, and Norman turns deadly. 

Speaking of deadly...I really hope Dylan, Emma, Dr. Edwards, and Romera all make it through to the end w/out being killed off.  I know the whole "everyone dies in the finale" troupe is popular today but I honestly feel like it's too much. And in this scenario someone needs to be around to comment on it all. Even in the movie, while the star (Janet Leigh) might have been killed off, most of the rest of the players survived. It's mainly only a blood bath (pun intended) for the female guests that check in. 

[queenanne]

21 hours ago, raven said:

I don't want to put words in your mouth - it seems like you might be thinking the show is presenting Norman as a twisted anti-hero, overcoming all odds?  I'm not sure how they will tie things up, but I don't get a sense of Norman-character-worship.  We were always going to see how Norman ended up where he did; my surprise is that we'll see what came after he got there but before what happens in the movie.  I have some hope for Dylan and Emma; Romero I don't know.    Romero may be broken beyond repair by losing Norma.

Kinda,  but not wholly.  I guess we'll see, as you say, but it's primarily that I find it problematic being asked to have any sympathy for Norman at this point (which I think the producers do want us to have), because I have a hard time believing that there was really a time where he doesn't, at some point, understand that "dead is dead".  I mean, he's not so far gone that he never understood the concept.  He's seen (or had!) several different people killed.  He seems to have no problem understanding that Sam Bates doesn't come back to life because death exists.  I guess it's borderline about Emma's mother, as maybe that was supposed to be conveyed by the concept that she "disappeared" from the freezer (actually or just fictively in his mind).  I get that he's, maybe for want of a better term, super disappointed that Norma didn't come back to life and wasn't faking it, but I find it hard to connect with the concept that any part of him thought she really would.  

12 hours ago, RCharter said:

I agree, as you said, we all knew what was going to happen....and so I don't fault the writers for having Norman "win" in the final season.  At the same time, that doesn't particularly sound like an interesting show to me....where Norman either kills everyone or outsmarts them.  So, while I don't fault the writers, I doubt I would really want to watch the final season unless it turned out I was wrong.

I certainly think Romero is going to try to prove that Norman did it, but I think Romero will die.  Or maybe land in jail and end up killing himself.  But we all know in the end that Romero isn't going to win or else Norman wouldn't be living in that house with Norma's remains.

I guess its a tribute to FH's acting that I wanted to punch him when he smugly gave Romero back that ring.

I agree, Freddie is doing a great job, and/but that it loses something not having Norma as his, for want of a better word, nemesis.  They need a push-pull in the story.  Maybe they'll provide it with Norman's Head!Norma, because as Norma has not come back to life, there'd be no need to make her appear artificial as "Mother" anymore in their interactions so that we're not too confused about what is real and what is fiction.  

But part of the reason that I was able to sympathize with Norman, I think, lies specifically in the fact that both Norman and Norma were capable of being equally in the wrong, hence what I meant by "nemesis".  You can feel sorry for him because of Norma's illogical opposition and thwarting of him, and you can feel sorry for Norma because every interaction in her formative years and beyond fucked her up beyond bearing, but it's difficult to feel sorry for Norman and Romero simultaneously, for me.  All of my sympathies are on Romero's side - he who appears to have loved his wife from a point of view without selfishness - and we don't even have the constant in-person reminder of how Norma is to blame for Norman, while we are considering Norman.  (Though, heck, maybe next season I'd find I disliked both Norman and his head-canon rendition of Norma.)

Edited May 18, 2016 by queenanne

[jewel21]

Just a few questions, and if they've already been answered I apologize but I haven't had time to read through the whole thread yet.

1. Being dead, wouldn't Norma be stiff as a board, not flopping around everywhere like she is merely unconscious?

2. By law, don't bodies have to be embalmed, and if not, wouldn't Norma be smelling not so fresh right about now?

3. Aren't the eyes of corpses are sewed shut?

Lastly, I never watched Psycho, but my mom has and she was surprised Norma was killed so young. She said she thought in the movies that Norma was killed when she was quite older. Is this true? Because my mom seemed to remember Norma as being an old woman when she died.

Thanks for the answers!

[whydoiwatchtv]

In the movie Psycho, Norma had an old ladies' voice and gray hair in her corpse reveal scene. I was supposed to be 10 years with the two of them in the house. But the mother in the movie sounded 70-80. I guess they'll have to take some liberties, like Norma being younger but I love all the shoutouts to the original movie.

[Zanne]

54 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

Just a few questions, and if they've already been answered I apologize but I haven't had time to read through the whole thread yet.

1. Being dead, wouldn't Norma be stiff as a board, not flopping around everywhere like she is merely unconscious?

2. By law, don't bodies have to be embalmed, and if not, wouldn't Norma be smelling not so fresh right about now?

3. Aren't the eyes of corpses are sewed shut?

Lastly, I never watched Psycho, but my mom has and she was surprised Norma was killed so young. She said she thought in the movies that Norma was killed when she was quite older. Is this true? Because my mom seemed to remember Norma as being an old woman when she died.

Thanks for the answers!

1. Depends on how long the body has been dead and the environmental conditions. The body does go through a stiff period, but then it can relax again.

2. No, because some religions do not approve of embalming. In those cases, the body is often buried ASAP.

3. Depends. I read a non-fiction book about morticians and their stories in which they would stick cotton under the eyelids so they wouldn't open. There seem to be several tricks.

In Psycho IV, Norma is also young, so it seems as the story progressed, they retroactively deaged her to something that would make a little more sense story-wise if she were killed with her lover.

[ganesh]

On 5/17/2016 at 4:44 PM, FoundTime said:

Somebody posted last week that the show should end with Marion Crane pulling up to the motel in a driving rain. ("Twelve rooms, twelve vacancies!") That is my perfect ending too. We already know the rest of the story.

Based on the events, I'd say this is probably a fitting ending.

I'm surprised they really killed Norma now. As many said, me too, it wasn't earned because Norma never got to the realization of who she created. On the other hand, I guess it still is classically tragic because right up until the end, Norma never got just enough self awareness about Norman and went to her death unknowingly. I don't agree with it, and I would have rather she died closer to the end of the series, but I can't call BS either. Are they going to be able to sustain 10 more episodes of this? Probably, because there's enough going on to still get us to the movie. I still would have liked a few more hours of Norma. 

I don't think Norman is an anti-hero or sympathetic either. One could argue he's trapped in his own prison now so I wouldn't even say he got away with it. 

[North of Eden]

The jaws of complete insanity opened wide and swallowed Norman Bates whole....just for that one moment after Chick talked to him and he went for the gun was probably his last moment of any sort of clarity when he knew what a terrible thing he had done and what it had meant...and then his last bit of sanity flickered out forever.

Next season I can see the supporting cast dropping one by one as they discover what he's done...and speaking of next season....I feel the Goth Undertaker has to play some sort of role...she seemed more than just a throwaway character like Romero's secretary.

[SometimesBites]

On 5/18/2016 at 5:25 PM, Ailianna said:

So I'm pretty sure that Romero, as her husband, would get everything, and Norman wouldn't.  

Oregon isn't a community property state. And even under community property law, the assets each person brings into the marriage remain their personal property unless specifically made joint property (co-mingling funds, adding names to deeds and titles, etc.) Romero and Norma opened a joint bank account, but there's no way they had time in their whirlwind two-week marriage to do all that.

[Rustybones]

I can't get that damn "Pearly Shells" out of my head.

[Peanut6711]

15 hours ago, queenanne said:

Kinda,  but not wholly.  I guess we'll see, as you say, but it's primarily that I find it problematic being asked to have any sympathy for Norman at this point (which I think the producers do want us to have), because I have a hard time believing that there was really a time where he doesn't, at some point, understand that "dead is dead".  I mean, he's not so far gone that he never understood the concept.  He's seen (or had!) several different people killed.  He seems to have no problem understanding that Sam Bates doesn't come back to life because death exists.  I guess it's borderline about Emma's mother, as maybe that was supposed to be conveyed by the concept that she "disappeared" from the freezer (actually or just fictively in his mind).  I get that he's, maybe for want of a better term, super disappointed that Norma didn't come back to life and wasn't faking it, but I find it hard to connect with the concept that any part of him thought she really would.  

With Norman's psychosis, he isn't aware he is the one doing the crimes, he thinks it's "mother."  Now the murder-suicide scene might have been a little different but then there was the memory lapse from the carbon monoxide poisoning, which was mentioned by the doctor in the hospital and I think that is why Norman was so mixed up about what really happened and whether Norma was really alive and playing some game. Because Norman survived it, he was confused whether Norma did too. That's why when after Chick's visit and he realizes she's really dead, he attempt to kill himself with the gun, finishing the job he previously started because he believes they can't live without each other. But then his warped mind imagines Norma and the dog alive again and thus we set the stage for Norman living out his life at the Bates Motel, sanity largely obliterated. 

[Mabinogia]

I will miss actual Norma. I will mostly miss Norma interacting with characters other than Norman. IDK how I'm going to like it going forward. Freddie is doing an amazing job and the story is fascinating, but so much of this show, for me, was Norma, her insanity, her tragedy, her pigheaded unwillingness to look facts in the face. I loved her interactions with Chick and Romero and Dylan and Emma and that is gone now. Even though she will still be on the show, she is gone.

I know that she pretty much brought this on herself with not accepting the truth, but my heart breaks that she finally found some real happiness with a man who truly did love her and only had a few weeks with him. She never should have let Norman come home, but I completely get why she did, co-dependence is strong with those two, but it was pretty much what killed her.

For me, the show is not going to be as good, though still much, much better than most shows. I'm just worried that it lost it's heart. Now it's going to be a slow, miserable decent into darkness and probably a lot harder to watch because of the sheer tragedy of it all.