S06.E23: Reunion Part 3

[ElDosEquis]

Re: Ken Gate?

My wife can take care of herself, IF she had a problem with her gal pals, I'd listen and I might comment, but I sure as shit wouldn't start in on them.

IF it was a man attacking/talking smack in my presence, I'd be Johnny on the Spot - but Ken adding his 2 cents in as a commentator just makes him look like a fool and a tool.  Had he done it in response to a face to face confrontation with a man, no problem. But 'fighting' with women?

Stop it.

[zoeysmom]

So I keep hoping for a sign from Erika that she is interesting.  So far she has relayed to us she is gaudy, raunchy, borderline obscene, uses the 'c'  word for shock value, has a lot of stuff, needs three people to get her ass ready to meet with her new friends, talks smack about everyone but Yolanda (give that a year), is unyielding materialistic, and lectures others on manners.

No one looked surprised when Kathryn who has been regularly subjected to Erika's "opinion" spilled on Erika's unsavory comments about the others hair, makeup, wardrobe. Nice considering Kyle gifted them with a kaftan.

She ran Kathryn into the ground about carrying tales while no one, (that would be Andy's job) challenged her on doing the same with the others' comments and running them back to Yolanda.  She talks about others treatment of her as a guest and host but just straight out lied to the others about carrying tales. 

I see Erika getting the well deserved bitch edit next year.  I doubt Yolanda can save her but expect to see Eileen and Rinna jockeying for the space right below her tramp stamp.   

Maybe the low part of the night was swearing on her son's life. 

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

Why does relevancy have to be intertwined with constant drama? The others are criticized because they were literally consumed all season long with talking about others. Why does the enjoyment of the show have to be nestled in cattiness and gossip all of the time? Eileen and LR get criticized because their edits made them seem very obsessive with every conversation being about the same thing yet we get to see the other women in different elements. You don't need to share parts of yourself to create a storyline - you can share just because and then leave it be. LVP shared her mixed emotions about her adopted son looking into finding his birth parents - that doesn't need to be a storyline and she didn't make it one. Kyle refused to make her relationship with her sister a storyline this season. Addressing something and creating a storyline out of it is not the same thing. When you focus on a singular thing to make yourself relevant, you are desperate and that's likely why LVP doesn't get the same criticize about storylines.

I could not agree with you more, and I think that is the point the other ladies are trying to make. They don't like the fact that LVP is trying to create drama behind the scenes. Recommending that folks bring up things on the show to get things started. But then in front of the camera she plays coy, like she has no idea what they are talking about. Like she is so damned busy in her "real" life she would never have time to worry about the show or making it better. The other ladies seem to enjoy kind of hanging around, doing mostly nothing except trying to have a laugh. They are all very careful about what portion of their private life they give over to the cameras, and what the give, they would like to be in charge of. No secret there. The thing is, and clearly people are going to disagree about this, what they are saying is that LVP wants to produce drama, wants to stir shit up and pit one person against another in order to create drama. She wants to get Eileen to talk about her affair, and maybe even hopes she gets pissy about it, since LVP already knows this is something she doesn't want to talk about. She wants to bring up Kim's arrest on camera (and talk about the mean things Kim has said about her in the press) even though she knows that Kyle wants to be very careful about how Kim is talked about on the show. She knows this will upset Kyle and create some drama.  She knows Mohamed doesn't want to get brought into this deal about that non-Gigi's non-Lyme disease, but she creates drama to move things along. Again, I know that people don't agree that this is what she is doing, but this is what everyone who has ever brushed up against her believes that she is doing, and what they are reacting to. 

[psychoticstate]

YoFo needs to lighten up - - of course people would laugh over an Instagram pic of Yo looking like a human Jiffy Pop.

A boring part 3, very disappointing.  How many times during the reunion alone did the Eileen/LVP argument/non-apology need to happen?  How many times did we need to hash and rehash Munchhausen's?   Show me more house porn and Harry Hamlin. 

[Vicky8675309]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think it was more about the fact that LVP mentioned in her blog that she didn't really understand Eileen sharing her story of abuse (this was what started the conversation at the reunion). It came across as critical, although she worded it carefully. Then, after saying that sharing something like that wouldn't be something she would want to do because it was in the past, she went on to share that she had had a similar experience in her blog. WTF?  It was just a strange thing to do. I believe that this, coupled with the fact that she was asking Eileen personal questions on camera, despite the fact that Eileen said last year she didn't like talking about those things on camera, made LVP again appear manipulative. She said in her blog that the reason she was asking Eileen those questions was to get to know her better, but then she pulls away from any attempt for anyone to get to know her better. This is actually one of the characteristics of a Manipulative Personality (from what I have read - certainly I'm no expert). They ask a lot of questions that may make the person appear interested, but really they are trying to find your weak spots. At the same time, they share very little about themselves, so as not to give over control to another person in the same manner they are trying to take control. 

 

I've never heard of an official diagnoses of "Manipulative Personality" disorder. Do you mean a personality trait/skill/talent/etc that we all have to varying degrees in various situations? 

[JenFromCincy]

9 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Re: Ken Gate?

My wife can take care of herself, IF she had a problem with her gal pals, I'd listen and I might comment, but I sure as shit wouldn't start in on them.

IF it was a man attacking/talking smack in my presence, I'd be Johnny on the Spot - but Ken adding his 2 cents in as a commentator just makes him look like a fool and a tool.  Had he done it in response to a face to face confrontation with a man, no problem. But 'fighting' with women?

Stop it.

I get your point, but technically, he wasn't fighting with women.  He was disparaging a woman who had hurt his wife, to his wife, and it was caught on camera.  I think Lisa is much more camera conscious than Ken, at least as far as ramifications go.  I also cut him some slack because of the era when he grew up.  A man's role was the protector then.  Ingrained upbringing is generally the brain's go-to mode when you're angry (or scared, not that that applies here) and you aren't thinking clearly.

[Wings]

3 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

 

15 hours ago, wings707 said:

The set design was trrible.  It does not have a Beverly Hills feel.  It looked a little like a wedding in an Elks hall with the flowers picked randomly from public gardens by nightfall.  Alcohol steering the choices.  

But what would a Beverly Hills set entail? I'm not snarking - I am honestly curious!

 

The flower arrangements were not BH.  They had too many colors and types of flowers in them.  A lush and dramatic arrangement would be all one color and very large.  The furniture and accessories did not radiate  wealth.  There was a lot going on that created visual noise.  The set designer should have taken a tip from Mohammed's house.  Not his gaudy stuff but the sleek modern design he has in that house we saw.   Every reunion set looks the same.  

[HumblePi]

4 hours ago, bosawks said:

They look like they're sitting in front of a wind machine.

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

 

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

Why does relevancy have to be intertwined with constant drama? The others are criticized because they were literally consumed all season long with talking about others. Why does the enjoyment of the show have to be nestled in cattiness and gossip all of the time? Eileen and LR get criticized because their edits made them seem very obsessive with every conversation being about the same thing yet we get to see the other women in different elements. You don't need to share parts of yourself to create a storyline - you can share just because and then leave it be. LVP shared her mixed emotions about her adopted son looking into finding his birth parents - that doesn't need to be a storyline and she didn't make it one. Kyle refused to make her relationship with her sister a storyline this season. Addressing something and creating a storyline out of it is not the same thing. When you focus on a singular thing to make yourself relevant, you are desperate and that's likely why LVP doesn't get the same criticize about storylines.

I wouldn't try to speak for motorcitymom, but my reading of "What was LVP's story line?" comment is sort of riffing on what each of these women--across franchises--gets accused of nearly every season: "If it weren't for so-and-so, such-and-such wouldn't have had a story line." or "The only thing so-and-so did this season was supervise a renovation of her living room/host a painting class/host a barbecue. If such-and-such hadn't started blah blah blah, then the other girl(s) wouldn't have had a story line."

I take it as something that gets tossed out often--that very equation of cattiness/drama equaling a story line--and when one of the HWs can only be remembered doing something like looking for mannequins for her store or flying to the Midwest for a miniature horse, it's suddenly how said wife didn't have had a story line outside of drama with another HW. Lisa isn't exempt from that critique. If the doing these one-off activities is a means of saying that someone didn't have a story line without conflict with another HW, then sure--Lisa didn't have any story line this season. 

5 minutes ago, JenFromCincy said:

I get your point, but technically, he wasn't fighting with women.  He was disparaging a woman who had hurt his wife, to his wife, and it was caught on camera.  I think Lisa is much more camera conscious than Ken, at least as far as ramifications go.  I also cut him some slack because of the era when he grew up.  A man's role was the protector then.  Ingrained upbringing is generally the brain's go-to mode when you're angry (or scared, not that that applies here) and you aren't thinking clearly.

But it wasn't caught on camera. This isn't a situation of a hot mic picking up someone whispering to another person. Ken has been in this thing--whether on the periphery or sometimes caught up in full center--for six seasons. He's not naive to who these people are standing on his lawn holding a boom mic above his head, a large camera in his face, and a mic pack clipped to his back. He's well aware that what he says may make it to air.

[ElDosEquis]

2 minutes ago, JenFromCincy said:

I get your point, but technically, he wasn't fighting with women.  He was disparaging a woman who had hurt his wife, to his wife, and it was caught on camera.  I think Lisa is much more camera conscious than Ken, at least as far as ramifications go.  I also cut him some slack because of the era when he grew up.  A man's role was the protector then.  Ingrained upbringing is generally the brain's go-to mode when you're angry (or scared, not that that applies here) and you aren't thinking clearly.

That is why I put the word fighting in apostrophes!

I get what you are saying, The danger of the situation is that LVP is telling Ken the story in her words. Sometimes things get under or overstated in the translation and that can send people off in crazy directions? One way I learned to shut down any assholery is to ask the story teller who said what and what were their exact words. That way I can go directly to that person, it I have to, and sound like a sane person.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Real Housewives Of Beverly Hills Season 6 Ends With More Bling Than Bang

If only this season had the malicious intent Erika thinks Kathryn does. Let's see how Part 3 of the reunion stacks up in the rankings.

[NewGranny]

3 hours ago, SistaLadybug said:

I do see that, CTO.  I think LisaV sees these women for who they are and thinks they're silly.  I think she also sees herself as silly.  Silly women on a silly show and she doesn't get the big deal about it all.  Some of the others are miffed because they are very serious about themselves ... this is * real life* (read in Eileen's super dramatic soap actress voice).  

I admit to liking Vanderpump because I think we're a lot alike in personality (from what I've seen on the show).  I think I have more natural empathy and compassion but I'm also stubborn.  I won't give an apology I don't mean and I won't be forced into saying something just to make someone else comfortable.  I don't cry in my tea.  I laugh at inappropriate things.  I refuse to dwell on hardships.  I think Eileen is right that Lisa has more compassion for animals than she does for these women.  To Eileen, that's an indictment of Lisa.  To me, it makes sense.  Boo-fucking-hoo, Eileen.  You're a rich, successful actress who had an affair that someone brought up.  YOU had an affair.  An affair that isn't a secret and has been talked about openly for years.  No one cares about it as much as you do.

Also?  Ken's badmouthing of the women?  So.  The fuck.  What.  He was angry and they had been (what he saw as) nasty to his wife.  Of course he called them all sorts of bitches and wankers and whatever else.  If I'd been in his shoes, I would've called them everything but a child of God.  I do the same when someone hurts a friend or loved one.  I would've said all he said and more.  And they're sitting over there needing smelling salts and shit, pearl clutching, talking about they would've vomited they'd have been so appalled.  Please.  Y'all would've vomited from shock that your husbands cared enough to call someone a wanker in your defense.  

AMEN! I totally agree with all of this!  I too am a lot like LVP and frankly if Eileen came to me days later complaining that I "hurt her feelings" or some other bullshit, I would've laughed in her face too.

Also, my husband would totally have my back and would probably called them worse names then Ken did!

[Satchels of gold]

22 minutes ago, Vicky8675309 said:

 

I've never heard of an official diagnoses of "Manipulative Personality" disorder. Do you mean a personality trait/skill/talent/etc that we all have to varying degrees in various situations? 

Just FYI there is no such thing as Manipulative Personality disorder but some people with certain personality disorders are thought to be manipulative , such as borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. 

[JenFromCincy]

8 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

But it wasn't caught on camera. This isn't a situation of a hot mic picking up someone whispering to another person. Ken has been in this thing--whether on the periphery or sometimes caught up in full center--for six seasons. He's not naive to who these people are standing on his lawn holding a boom mic above his head, a large camera in his face, and a mic pack clipped to his back. He's well aware that what he says may make it to air.

If I were upset, I wouldn't think about a camera.  I'm not that calculated.  Yes, he's been on for six seasons, but on the periphery.  I stand by the idea for that reason he's not as camera conscious.  Either that or he doesn't give a rip. I'm in the minority who think that after 70 years on the planet, you're allowed to not give a rip about a woman's feelings when she certainly didn't have any reservations when it came to his wife's feelings. I completely get that it's not a popular viewpoint, but it's just how I feel.

[yourmomiseasy]

Quote

Together Erika, Yolanda, and Eileen emerge as the winners of season and reunion alike. 

I feel like I watched a different show than the recapper.

[Vicky8675309]

3 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

That is why I put the word fighting in apostrophes!

I get what you are saying, The danger of the situation is that LVP is telling Ken the story in her words. Sometimes things get under or overstated in the translation and that can send people off in crazy directions? One way I learned to shut down any assholery is to ask the story teller who said what and what were their exact words. That way I can go directly to that person, it I have to, and sound like a sane person.

Why would he have to go directly to the women? I so glad he reacted naturally to his wife's hurt feelings. I'm sure he go into the specifics when she was ready or found out about the specifics from a producer if he knows she wants to avoid retelling of the details.

[JenFromCincy]

7 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

That is why I put the word fighting in apostrophes!

I get what you are saying, The danger of the situation is that LVP is telling Ken the story in her words. Sometimes things get under or overstated in the translation and that can send people off in crazy directions? One way I learned to shut down any assholery is to ask the story teller who said what and what were their exact words. That way I can go directly to that person, it I have to, and sound like a sane person.

Good point. I'll admit it's likely that I'm just overly protective of the old cuss.  I prefer a raw moment over a manufactured one.  I find it endearing.  (Comes with being a weirdo.) ;)

[Satchels of gold]

I was the poster who wanted to send my husband to the Ken Todd school of outrage. So I'm not even  going to pretend he was right or caught in a moment unaware but I freakin loved it. If that had been at my house the conversation would have transpired as follows.

me: ( you can choose to give me a British accent if it helps.) Lisa Rinna was awful to me on the trip.

hubby: what did you do? Cmon you know how you can be. 

See? That is no fun.

[izabella]

47 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I could not agree with you more, and I think that is the point the other ladies are trying to make. They don't like the fact that LVP is trying to create drama behind the scenes. Recommending that folks bring up things on the show to get things started. But then in front of the camera she plays coy, like she has no idea what they are talking about. Like she is so damned busy in her "real" life she would never have time to worry about the show or making it better. The other ladies seem to enjoy kind of hanging around, doing mostly nothing except trying to have a laugh.

Please help me understand what the others did that showed them enjoying themselves, hanging around and doing nothing but trying to have a laugh.  I saw Lisa and Kyle trying to have laughs.  I did not see the others doing that. at. all.  Rinna and Eileen did not have one laugh that wasn't forced - all they did was talk about Lyme-hausen and try to blame shit on LVP.  Erika did Erika Jayne, but boy, was that neither fun, funny, nor entertaining.  Yo?  Does she know how to have fun and laugh?  Not unless she's dragging LVP and Kyle to freeze them like popsicles as Lyme "treatment."  Kathryn can have a good time and laugh, but she wasn't there for much of it and was dropped into the middle of Lyme-hausen all season.

If the other women did something that was fun and showed them having laughs, I must have missed it.  I did ff a lot when I got sick of the endless Lyme-hausen and EILEEN'S AFFAIR apology demands.

Edited May 4, 2016 by izabella

[Pop Tart]

Quote

I could not agree with you more, and I think that is the point the other ladies are trying to make. They don't like the fact that LVP is trying to create drama behind the scenes. Recommending that folks bring up things on the show to get things started. But then in front of the camera she plays coy, like she has no idea what they are talking about. Like she is so damned busy in her "real" life she would never have time to worry about the show or making it better. The other ladies seem to enjoy kind of hanging around, doing mostly nothing except trying to have a laugh. They are all very careful about what portion of their private life they give over to the cameras, and what the give, they would like to be in charge of. No secret there. The thing is, and clearly people are going to disagree about this, what they are saying is that LVP wants to produce drama, wants to stir shit up and pit one person against another in order to create drama. She wants to get Eileen to talk about her affair, and maybe even hopes she gets pissy about it, since LVP already knows this is something she doesn't want to talk about. She wants to bring up Kim's arrest on camera (and talk about the mean things Kim has said about her in the press) even though she knows that Kyle wants to be very careful about how Kim is talked about on the show. She knows this will upset Kyle and create some drama.  She knows Mohamed doesn't want to get brought into this deal about that non-Gigi's non-Lyme disease, but she creates drama to move things along. Again, I know that people don't agree that this is what she is doing, but this is what everyone who has ever brushed up against her believes that she is doing, and what they are reacting to. 

I'm quoting you entirely MotorCityMom because I think you've hit it exactly. I do believe that LVP stirs things up behind the scenes, so I pretty much entirely believe LisaR in what she says happened with the off-screen conversations - even if she couldn't articulate her situation to save her life. When Andy pointed out that most of the HW's have accused LVP of being manipulative at one time or another, I didn't see it as piling on her. I saw it as a truth being exposed. These women have all felt what LisaR has in the past.

I do think Brandi nailed it with her observation about LVP - she is a genius at shifting the narrative. When someone gets angry with her for an actual thing - her pushing and prodding personal comments - she shifts the narrative to how they're overreacting to a few "innocent" questions. Now instead of her being on the defensive for something she did do, they're on the defensive in their response. I have never liked her but I do agree that she could run a master class in how to change the storyline.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Pop Tart

[The Mighty Peanut]

Does anyone else laugh every time Ken pronounces the word stupid like steeeeewwwww-pidd?

Edited May 4, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[ElDosEquis]

13 minutes ago, JenFromCincy said:

Good point. I'll admit it's likely that I'm just overly protective of the old cuss.  I prefer a raw moment over a manufactured one.  I find it endearing.  (Comes with being a weirdo.) ;)

I get you!  When you ask the story teller to give you details, 9 times out of 10 the story changes and you get a better idea of what was said!

[zoeysmom]

27 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I could not agree with you more, and I think that is the point the other ladies are trying to make. They don't like the fact that LVP is trying to create drama behind the scenes. Recommending that folks bring up things on the show to get things started. But then in front of the camera she plays coy, like she has no idea what they are talking about. Like she is so damned busy in her "real" life she would never have time to worry about the show or making it better. The other ladies seem to enjoy kind of hanging around, doing mostly nothing except trying to have a laugh. They are all very careful about what portion of their private life they give over to the cameras, and what the give, they would like to be in charge of. No secret there. The thing is, and clearly people are going to disagree about this, what they are saying is that LVP wants to produce drama, wants to stir shit up and pit one person against another in order to create drama. She wants to get Eileen to talk about her affair, and maybe even hopes she gets pissy about it, since LVP already knows this is something she doesn't want to talk about. She wants to bring up Kim's arrest on camera (and talk about the mean things Kim has said about her in the press) even though she knows that Kyle wants to be very careful about how Kim is talked about on the show. She knows this will upset Kyle and create some drama.  She knows Mohamed doesn't want to get brought into this deal about that non-Gigi's non-Lyme disease, but she creates drama to move things along. Again, I know that people don't agree that this is what she is doing, but this is what everyone who has ever brushed up against her believes that she is doing, and what they are reacting to. 

If you take a trip in the way back machine LVP her first season had props, Cedric, Mohamed, Giggy and of course her British accent.  She made the comments about the other women, Kyle a hypochondriac (Yolanda has since topped Kyle in that department), the thing was these made for a running dialogue (I am not using the word storyline).  Kyle the terrible airline passenger, Cedric the mooch, Cedric in his Speedo at Mohamed's dinner.

There are times it is beneficial to collaborate with LVP, Rinna got lots of camera time for going to the little horse farm.  I believe where the problems started arising is when one of LVP's props jumped ship (Cedric).  Since then I believe LVP has been a little more cautious when dealing from the bottom of the deck.  LVP has been pretty firm in staying off a reality show if you have something you want to hide, granted she used a horrible example the Nassif boys surrogacy.

What I gleaned from last night is Rinna is a talker, and was out talking about the show with Kyle and Rinna brought up something she wanted to use.  Munchausen (a word that was used an appalling 80 times throughout the season), she admitted it last night on WWHL, she "owned it" and it brought the word forward for the drama.  So when there was a lull in the Munchausen word and attention diverted from Rinna, she came up with the LVP made her do it. Last night she said if she had it to do all over again she would have taken the Munchausen word to Yolanda privately on camera.  How is that LVP manipulating Rinna?  Rinna's desire was to get the word out there.  Rinna didn't just recount a visit to the hairdresser without purpose.  She wanted something   LVP has been candid and has suggested, not mandated, people talk about what they want on camera, not behind the scenes.  Who prompted Rinna to meet Kathryn and bring up OJ?  I am quite certain it wasn't LVP.

[ElDosEquis]

23 minutes ago, Satchels of gold said:

I was the poster who wanted to send my husband to the Ken Todd school of outrage. So I'm not even  going to pretend he was right or caught in a moment unaware but I freakin loved it. If that had been at my house the conversation would have transpired as follows.

me: ( you can choose to give me a British accent if it helps.) Lisa Rinna was awful to me on the trip.

hubby: what did you do? Cmon you know how you can be. 

See? That is no fun.

Pull out some receipts and tell him your friends pressured you into the purchases? : 0

[notnowimbusy]

LR felt some sort of need to "bring it" this season, and she thought the M word was the way to go.   When the tables turned, she turned to ED for "advise".  ED ate it up.   Interestingly, the only source ED based her outrage on was LR.  She took everything LR said literally - never thinking maybe she was exaggerating, overthinking, and being dramatic.   LR heard what she wanted to hear, and it only took ED to egg her on for her to go ballistic.  

A long time ago two of my neighbors had a fight.  I overheard every single word.  The next day one of them came to me to relay what had happened.  She didn't know I heard.  The only thing about her version of the story that was true was there was a fight.   According to her, she was calm, polite and being reasonable - when in fact, she was off the wall screaming, cursing, and making a fool of herself.   It was the other person who was actually calm & polite.   Thinking about it always reminds me of LR.   

Without the constant need for the perfect apology, ED brought nothing to the season.  

[Satchels of gold]

I laughed when Andy ask Lisa R if she was easily manipulated and she responded " I don't know, maybe". You could hardly even see Eileen's hand up her back pulling the strings. They should take that to Vegas.

[JAYJAY1979]

regarding some posts wanting the show to focus on their day to day lives...if you recall, the first few episodes of season 5 did just that with little to no interaction amongst the ladies...and viewers (especially on twitter) complained about how boring the show was...and people started getting interested once Kim fell off the wagon with Lisa R leading the charge...so we need to blame ourselves for the downfall and changing of the format

[halkatla]

Quote

What makes it incredible is she was so close to Yolanda she never watched her show and to this day Yolanda has never seen an Erika Jayne performance.  Erika's husband is an attorney, I am quite certain before signing the bottom line they watched the show.  Another thing how is it Tom had an opinion about LVP the first time he met her being an alligator waiting on the banks for prey.  How were those opinions formed?

Erika must have caught Yo´s Lie disease.

[tvfanatic13]

LisaR only said she was appalled by Ken's insults AFTER Eileen said that she was appalled. Who's the real puppeteer LisaR? 

[Jel]

The absurdity of all of this munchausen biz is that no one said she had it! At worst, one of them, prolly ol' big mouth Rinna said something like, "is this what Yolanda could have?". 

No one accused her of having anything; she just asked a question;  the outrage over the question was much ado about nothing.  (and screw you, Yolanda for making me stick up for Rinna!)

The disingenuous bit was Rinna doing it on camera. If Lisa suggested she do it, wellll, did she have a gun to her head? Was there some reason Rinna couldn't have thought better of bringing it up on tv? Is she weak minded or foolish, or did she, herself, have a reason for doing it, because it's got to be one of those. She owns that she did it, but she doesn't own why she did it. Was it to please LVP? Well, then she's a people pleaser and that's her issue. She was egged on to do it is a flimsy, nothing, childish excuse. 

[bosawks]

38 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I feel like I watched a different show than the recapper.

You and me both.

I certainly don't see Erika, Yolanda and Eileen together as being the winner of the season

I do see them combined together as Lucy Van Pelt....

[ElDosEquis]

19 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I'm quoting you entirely MotorCityMom because I think you've hit it exactly. I do believe that LVP stirs things up behind the scenes, so I pretty much entirely believe LisaR in what she says happened with the off-screen conversations - even if she couldn't articulate her situation to save her life. When Andy pointed out that most of the HW's have accused LVP of being manipulative at one time or another, I didn't see it as piling on her. I saw it as a truth being exposed. These women have all felt what LisaR has in the past.

I do think Brandi nailed it with her observation about LVP - she is a genius at shifting the narrative. When someone gets angry with her for an actual thing - her pushing and prodding personal comments - she shifts the narrative to how they're overreacting to a few "innocent" questions. Now instead of her being on the defensive for something she did do, they're on the defensive in their response. I have never liked her but I do agree that she could run a master class in how to change the storyline.

LVP has a move - She pretends she is flustered and says, "Fer Gawd's sake" when someone asks her a question or backs her into corner....That is how she evades things.

[Yours Truly]

4 hours ago, CTO said:

Ok I see it opposite and this is my issue with Rinna. This also may explain why the ladies see LVP as manipulative. 

LVP is smart. She has run clubs, bars, huge businesses all dealing with people. She is by now a wizard at understanding people. No blame for that, it's a skill she learned and it's valuable. But the other women don't have that skill to same degree, if at all in some cases. When LVP responds or says something, she's genuinely coming from a place of reading a situation, person or statement correctly. The problem is exactly that - LVP reads them CORRECTLY which prevents them having their smoke screens in place. The problem is, perhaps, LVP is UNAWARE that she's doing this because she's just naturally being and expressing herself and doesn't understand it offends people. (Ironic considering...Brandi has same problem...)

HumblePi, good eye to focus on this. We disagree on interpretation but it's a great bit to observe and highlight. 

I see this as Rinna projecting and gaslighting LVP. I see all of them, when they find fault with LVP, as a variation on that tactic. 

Incidentally, this may be why LVP was initially friends with Brandi and why she dislikes her so much now. They share this in common, LVP and Brandi. They both read people well. That clip of Brandi was something none of us wanted or needed but every single woman she directed a comment toward looked at the time as if "oh shit she's reading me exactly right and saying it out loud". That's not a good way for Brandi to go through life but it doesn't mean she was wrong. In the same vein, LVP isn't playing chess like Bobby Fischer, she's actually, possibly, as smart as Bobby Fischer and smarts are not really something to find fault with are they? Unless these women prefer the company of non-intelligent people... ?

Does anyone else see this?

Yes, yes and yes and I agree about Brandi she just sucks royally at her delivery and timing. She doesn't always have to bring these details to light in such a bull in a china shop sorta way. I also agree that's why Lisa and Brandi got along initially because Lisa was happy to be around someone who saw things in the same straight forward way. LVP had more leeway with her humor when it came to Brandi, which backfired.  It's  Brandi's stupid insecurities and needs to build an alliance that throws wrenches in the works and she destroys the progress she makes in her relationships. Silly rabbit.

[WireWrap]

11 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

 

Last night she said if she had it to do all over again she would have taken the Munchausen word to Yolanda privately on camera.  How is that LVP manipulating Rinna?  Rinna's desire was to get the word out there.  Rinna didn't just recount a visit to the hairdresser without purpose.  She wanted something   LVP has been candid and has suggested, not mandated, people talk about what they want on camera, not behind the scenes.  Who prompted Rinna to meet Kathryn and bring up OJ?  I am quite certain it wasn't LVP.

Rinna admitted that she had every intent on using that this season on camera no matter what and once again, Andy let her slither away blaming LisaV for "manipulating her" instead of pointing out how ridiculous she sounds. When Lisa said that she tells all of them to talk about what matters to them, both Rinna and Eileen claimed she was shifting/deflecting/gas lighting them but Rinna pretty much admitted she/Eileen were in fact lying about the "manipulation" with that reveal last night on WWHL IMO. 

[kokapetl]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

LVP interview regarding the Reunion and her future on RHOBH:  http://www.etonline.com/tv/188021_exclusive_lisa_vanderpump_says_lisa_rinna_might_as_well_have_hit_me_with_a_baseball_bat_on_the_head/

Crap like this might be why Andy pushed Lisa so much at this reunion. When she's on his shows and being interviewed by him, she's all remote and inscrutable, and "daahling what's the problem"? Now she says Lisar's attack was like a baseball bat to the head? 

16 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

LVP has a move - She pretends she is flustered and says, "Fer Gawd's sake" when someone asks her a question or backs her into corner....That is how she evades things.

Push it further and then she just gets up and leaves. 

[phoenix780]

4 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Kyle brought decorum, well by RH standards. She also introduced the idea that not every battle needs to be fought to the death.  She let the others know that something that happened five months earlier is not really relevant to a present relationship.  She was honest with LVP over the situation that had the others in a tizzy.  Whatever LVP said to Rinna about Kyle, really had zero effect on the others.  Since Kyle had addressed the situation privately with both LVP and Rinna it seemed like a reach. Kyle let the others know there were boundaries for their discussions.  We saw her with her family  and her dog Bambi was the star of the show.  She was a friend to each and every one of them-something no else can claim this year.  The worst thing the other could say about her this season is they resent her friendship with LVP.  How very petty. 

Y'know...you're so right about this.  Kyle is my favorite across the franchises and I didn't even think about it this way.  She didn't bring random crazy drama.  She was essentially a mature adult, which was needed to offset the superstorm of crazy brought by Rinna.  I was focusing narrowly on who brought the nonsense that I dissect when I should be working.

On another note- the moment where they were all pressing LVP to dredge up an old memory for our consumption was straight-up gross.

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, ingenting said:

Crap like this might be why Andy pushed Lisa so much at this reunion. When she's on his shows and being interviewed by him, she's all remote and inscrutable, and "daahling what's the problem"? Now she says Lisar's attack was like a baseball bat to the head? 

Push it further and then she just gets up and leaves. 

You have to admit production took away her ability to walk out this year.  The stuck her in the middle of a desert and on a yacht and away from Ken.

[sistermagpie]

34 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I'm quoting you entirely MotorCityMom because I think you've hit it exactly. I do believe that LVP stirs things up behind the scenes, so I pretty much entirely believe LisaR in what she says happened with the off-screen conversations - even if she couldn't articulate her situation to save her life. When Andy pointed out that most of the HW's have accused LVP of being manipulative at one time or another, I didn't see it as piling on her. I saw it as a truth being exposed. These women have all felt what LisaR has in the past.

I do think Brandi nailed it with her observation about LVP - she is a genius at shifting the narrative. When someone gets angry with her for an actual thing - her pushing and prodding personal comments - she shifts the narrative to how they're overreacting to a few "innocent" questions. Now instead of her being on the defensive for something she did do, they're on the defensive in their response. I have never liked her but I do agree that she could run a master class in how to change the storyline.

She clearly does this, and has all along. I think everyone is right to describe her as doing it. Back when Brandi was her truth cannon it was even more blatant. Of course she was talking to Brandi and encouraging her to go after people, just as she'd done that with people before. I always assumed that's why she liked picking up pet people like Cedric and Brandi.

Thing is, Kyle wasn't even disagreeing with the ladies over it on the reunion. She blatantly said she knew Lisa was trying to do that with her "bring Kyle into it" comment and her response was to say "Don't even think about it or I'll bring you down in flames with me." She's not falling for it anymore. 

Trouble is when they try to argue that Lisa's blatant encouragement of things off-screen that she's going to pretend to have no interest or hand in on-camera is somehow the same as making them do whatever they did on-camera themselves. Because the truth is, as much as Lisa may have denied wanting the Munchhausen's on camera, it's not like LisaV made a storyline out of pretending she was so shocked by LisaR and made herself Yolanda's defender. All she did was leave LisaR without the enthusiastic response she thought she'd get. So LisaR is left trying to make a big deal over the fact that Lisa and Kyle didn't back her up on camera when she tried to make it a thing, and somehow this is a much bigger deal than LisaR herself trying to make it a thing. It's like--speaking of changing the narrative--LisaR wants to make it about LisaV secretly wanting LisaR to do this instead of LisaR's own reasons for doing it.

The thing about this with LisaV, imo, is that it's almost impossible to break through because it's the way she really instinctively is about everything. Her instinctive reaction to any criticism is to move to a "this person is crazy and I'm the victim" place, and then later, when she has had time to think, she moves even further into a "this person is crazy and I'm the victim" place. It really is almost impossible for her to admit she did something wrong, or even admit to something everyone knows she did that she doesn't want to admit. We're probably talking half a century of practice here. Kyle probably comes closest in the way that she's now able to refer to this stuff or call her out on it without her fighting it too hard. (Of course she'll take her usual position in interviews, saying how Kyle shouldn't be friends with her if that's what she really thinks, but she let Kyle call her manipulative several times without making a fuss.)

[CaughtOnTape]

Here's my take on Ken and Lisa.  

She's not responsible for what her husband says.  Either off camera or on.  He's an adult.  If they want to make someone answer for what he's said, then they should have brought him on and let him answer for it himself.  

As far as Lisa not telling him to knock it off or being "appalled" (thanks for the pearl clutching Eileen, you whiny ass baby) by the fact that she didn't, we live in a world nowadays where everyone lives their lives in the spotlight.  If you didn't say HAPPY BIRTHDAY to someone on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Tumblr where everyone could see it, than you never said it.  Just because the camera never caught Lisa telling him to stop doesn't mean she never has.  And even if she hasn't, what he said wasn't exactly wrong.  If that's how he feels, then feel that way.  What the hell do any of them care what he has to say?  Should Ken have said it?  Probably not.  Would it have offended me if he'd have said it about me?  Probably.  Would I have handled it the way Eileen and Rinna did?  No.  Because I'm an adult and I realize that Lisa is not responsible for what her husband says.  It's not a black mark on her character for not defending them and it doesn't mean she agreed.  

I'm not saying how Ken handled the situation is how I would have handled it.  But whatever, he's an adult and if that's how he wants to conduct himself, go right ahead.  If it crosses my line or is something I consider a deal breaker, then I'll just remove myself from the situation and go about my day.  Why these women can't handle themselves like that is puzzling.

Erika seems to get that.  She let Kathryn know what she did was fucked up.  She wasn't cool with it and didn't like it.  Period.  So now Kathryn knows for the future if she decides to handle a situation like that how Erika will view it.  I don't see that as a problem nor do I raise my eyebrows at Erika and Kathryn forging on with a friendship after the fact.  I believe it's a-ok to let someone know you're boundaries and I wish more people would do that.  Erika and Kathryn both owned their behavior in the situation and that was that.  Move on.  

Edited May 4, 2016 by CaughtOnTape

[ElDosEquis]

3 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

You have to admit production took away her ability to walk out this year.  The stuck her in the middle of a desert and on a yacht and away from Ken.

I have NO PROBLEM with LVP talking to Ken and airing out her feelings, that is what couples do. I guess what bugged me about it was him lying there like a sack of cement on the two occasions they caught him doing it - in the closet and outdoors on the chaise?

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I have NO PROBLEM with LVP talking to Ken and airing out her feelings, that is what couples do. I guess what bugged me about it was him lying there like a sack of cement on the two occasions they caught him doing it - in the closet and outdoors on the chaise?

I do think the chaise swallowing LVP up was pretty funny. I will say this about LVP she is very honest and expresses that she loves the fact Ken defends her no matter her choices. 

[ElDosEquis]

5 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Here's my take on Ken and Lisa.  

She's not responsible for what her husband says.  Either off camera or on.  He's an adult.  If they want to make someone answer for what he's said, then they should have brought him on and let him answer for it himself.  

As far as Lisa not telling him to knock it off or being "appalled" (thanks for the pearl clutching Eileen, you whiny ass baby) by the fact that she didn't, we live in a world nowadays where everyone lives their lives in the spotlight.  If you didn't say HAPPY BIRTHDAY to someone on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Tumblr where everyone could see it, than you never said it.  Just because the camera never caught Lisa telling him to stop doesn't mean she never has.  And even if she hasn't, what he said wasn't exactly wrong.  If that's how he feels, then feel that way.  What the hell do any of them care what he has to say?  Should Ken have said it?  Probably not.  Would it have offended me if he'd have said it about me?  Probably.  Would I have handled it the way Eileen and Rinna did?  No.  Because I'm an adult and I realize that Lisa is not responsible for what her husband says.  It's not a black mark on her character for not defending them and it doesn't mean she agreed.  

I'm not saying how Ken handled the situation is how I would have handled it.  But whatever, he's an adult and if that's how he wants to conduct himself, go right ahead.  If it crosses my line or is something I consider a deal breaker, then I'll just remove myself from the situation and go about my day.  Why these women can't handle themselves like that is puzzling.

Erika seems to get that.  She let Kathryn know what she did was fucked up.  She wasn't cool with it and didn't like it.  Period.  So now Kathryn knows for the future if she decides to handle a situation like that how Erika will view it.  I don't see that as a problem nor do I raise my eyebrows at Erika and Kathryn forging on with a friendship after the fact.  I believe it's a-ok to let someone know you're boundaries and I wish more people would do that.  Erika and Kathryn both owned their behavior in the situation and that was that.  Move on.  

The key to the "what Ken said" is that in a real world, you never would never hear the commentary made by the husband of one of your pals. Everything you mentioned is valid - but because the cameras were there - it changes the dynamic. Most exchanges between a hubby and wifey never see the light of day - and most of us would never tell our friends, "Hey, my husband thinks you are a wanker, etc."

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I could not agree with you more, and I think that is the point the other ladies are trying to make. They don't like the fact that LVP is trying to create drama behind the scenes. Recommending that folks bring up things on the show to get things started. But then in front of the camera she plays coy, like she has no idea what they are talking about. Like she is so damned busy in her "real" life she would never have time to worry about the show or making it better. The other ladies seem to enjoy kind of hanging around, doing mostly nothing except trying to have a laugh. They are all very careful about what portion of their private life they give over to the cameras, and what the give, they would like to be in charge of. No secret there. The thing is, and clearly people are going to disagree about this, what they are saying is that LVP wants to produce drama, wants to stir shit up and pit one person against another in order to create drama. She wants to get Eileen to talk about her affair, and maybe even hopes she gets pissy about it, since LVP already knows this is something she doesn't want to talk about. She wants to bring up Kim's arrest on camera (and talk about the mean things Kim has said about her in the press) even though she knows that Kyle wants to be very careful about how Kim is talked about on the show. She knows this will upset Kyle and create some drama.  She knows Mohamed doesn't want to get brought into this deal about that non-Gigi's non-Lyme disease, but she creates drama to move things along. Again, I know that people don't agree that this is what she is doing, but this is what everyone who has ever brushed up against her believes that she is doing, and what they are reacting to. 

You can assume the absolute worse of intentions with someone, the moment you engage, it diminishes your point in calling someone manipulative only after you need to rationalize/justify your own behaviour. That isn't manipulation, that is deflection. That's what Eileen did. That's what LR did. You dismiss it and sternly say 'stop' and LVP shuts her trap. Kyle did it. Eileen did it. At what point do we expect that the other women take accountability for themselves? Just taking one of your examples - should we call Eileen and LR manipulative when they confronted Kyle about Kim's activities? Hell, at least LVP didn't seem to be joyful about it. When Eileen and LR sat down with Kyle, they couldn't wait to sink their teeth into the gossop. Eileen quickly said 'can we talk about what the hell is going on with your sister...I heard she fled rehab' and then LR pipes in 'well more like escaped'. Come on - that sounds way more malicious than anything LVP said on the matter. Whether it's done occasionally or often, ALL of the women are guilty of doing exactly what they accuse LVP of. Just because it's off camera doesn't make it manipulative. I can agree that LVP does engage off camera but in my books, their hypocrisy and lack of accountability ranks higher on my annoying scale than someone who likes to gossip while trying to not let the world know that they like to gossip.

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

You can assume the absolute worse of intentions with someone, the moment you engage, it diminishes your point in calling someone manipulative only after you need to rationalize/justify your own behaviour. That isn't manipulation, that is deflection. That's what Eileen did. That's what LR did. You dismiss it and sternly say 'stop' and LVP shuts her trap. Kyle did it. Eileen did it. At what point do we expect that the other women take accountability for themselves? Just taking one of your examples - should we call Eileen and LR manipulative when they confronted Kyle about Kim's activities? Hell, at least LVP didn't seem to be joyful about it. When Eileen and LR sat down with Kyle, they couldn't wait to sink their teeth into the gossop. Eileen quickly said 'can we talk about what the hell is going on with your sister...I heard she fled rehab' and then LR pipes in 'well more like escaped'. Come on - that sounds way more malicious than anything LVP said on the matter. Whether it's done occasionally or often, ALL of the women are guilty of doing exactly what they accuse LVP of. Just because it's off camera doesn't make it manipulative. I can agree that LVP does engage off camera but in my books, their hypocrisy and lack of accountability ranks higher on my annoying scale than someone who likes to gossip while trying to not let the world know that they like to gossip.

That is such an excellent point, RHJUNKIE.  

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, Satchels of gold said:

I was the poster who wanted to send my husband to the Ken Todd school of outrage. So I'm not even  going to pretend he was right or caught in a moment unaware but I freakin loved it. If that had been at my house the conversation would have transpired as follows.

me: ( you can choose to give me a British accent if it helps.) Lisa Rinna was awful to me on the trip.

hubby: what did you do? Cmon you know how you can be. 

See? That is no fun.

I'm sorry.

In terms of the options, I was thinking that there's definitely a middle ground between ripping into the other women (Ken style) or blaming the wife (which seems to be what happens in your example). That's why I mentioned Mauricio in juxtaposition with Ken. Mauricio doesn't go on a tear calling the other women out of their names when Kyle tells him about some BS that's happened between her and another HW. He also doesn't say, "Well, Kyle, you know how you are" in response (e.g., when Kyle and Camille were in conflict season one, Mauricio was like, "This doesn't sound like you, but you definitely need to talk to Camille and smooth this over").

Edited May 4, 2016 by Mozelle

[CaughtOnTape]

22 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

The key to the "what Ken said" is that in a real world, you never would never hear the commentary made by the husband of one of your pals. Everything you mentioned is valid - but because the cameras were there - it changes the dynamic. Most exchanges between a hubby and wifey never see the light of day - and most of us would never tell our friends, "Hey, my husband thinks you are a wanker, etc."

Not sure what your point is.  But thanks for the explanation.  

[CaughtOnTape]

15 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

I'm sorry.

In terms of the options, I was thinking that there's definitely a middle ground between ripping into the other women (Ken style) or blaming the wife (which seems to be what happens in your example). That's why I mentioned Mauricio in juxtaposition with Ken. Mauricio doesn't go on a tear calling the other women out of their names when Kyle tells him about some BS that's happened between her and another HW. He also doesn't say, "Well, Kyle, you know how you are" in response (e.g., when Kyle and Camille were in conflict season one, Mauricio was like, "This doesn't sound like you, but you definitely need to talk to Camille and smooth this over").

I don't get the comparison. Ken isn't Mauricio and vice versa.  Ken has never shown himself to be someone who just nods and then gives delicate advice.  He's a fighter and has opinions.  He let Lisa know what his opinions were.  Is one more right than the other?  I mean, maybe Mauricio is more mature about the situation but that doesn't make him right, in my book.  Ken isn't just talking off the cuff about these women like he doesn't know.  He's been around all of them and knows the deal with how they act.  And let's remember, Rinna has been after his wife all season.  Could he have been more diplomatic in what he said?  Sure.  

But again, if they wanted someone to answer for what Ken said, they should've brought Ken out to discuss it.

[kokapetl]

And Ken and Lisa are far bigger wankers than anyone else on the show. 

[ElDosEquis]

1 minute ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Not sure what your point is.  But thanks for the explanation.  

A conversation between you and a SO about someone else, stays between the both of you. It's not put on tape for the world to see. That third party will never know that they are being called out or being called names.

[WireWrap]

20 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

I'm sorry.

In terms of the options, I was thinking that there's definitely a middle ground between ripping into the other women (Ken style) or blaming the wife (which seems to be what happens in your example). That's why I mentioned Mauricio in juxtaposition with Ken. Mauricio doesn't go on a tear calling the other women out of their names when Kyle tells him about some BS that's happened between her and another HW. He also doesn't say, "Well, Kyle, you know how you are" in response (e.g., when Kyle and Camille were in conflict season one, Mauricio was like, "This doesn't sound like you, but you definitely need to talk to Camille and smooth this over").

Except that we have heard Mauricio call a HW names, he called Brandi names and let Kyle know that he really didn't want her around in very clear terms/words. We also heard Paul call Brandi names to her face as well as behind her back so Ken isn't the only husband to have his wife's back in this manner.

 

My late father defended my mother in much the same way Ken does Lisa and my husband has been known to defend me in that manner as well. Ken said that he advised Lisa to keep her distance from Rinna after Amsterdam last season because he saw something about her he didn't like/trust so he has made his feelings know in private as well.