S03.E18: Ragnarok

[Dobian]

Favorite reveal: Ichabod watches Star Trek!

 

I'd go to church more if Pandora did all the masses.

 

So that's it for NB?  That came out of nowhere.  So they're going to find another female witness for Ichabod I guess.  Why don't they make it a guy, turn this into a bro show like Supernatural?

[jhlipton]

In back to back posts we've got Charles Dickens and the 1988 vice presidential debates. And it's all on topic.

 

Let's keep it going with the "sculpture" these show-runners deserve:

 

Here's the info: https://www.sfmoma.org/artwork/98.291

[Sparkling Beth]

You know what really gets me?  The way the producers are talking as if they expected the viewers to sit back and say, "Oh, my, that was a bold choice!" instead of "WHAT THE FUCK??!!!"  I mean, honestly, did they really believe that we'd be just fine with the sudden and unnecessary death of a character we love and respect?  A character who is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to the show's success?  Can they really be that stupid?  (Rhetorical question.  We all know the answer.)

 

Desperate to say something positive, I will add that this episode underscored the brilliant casting of Zach Appelman as Clancy Brown's son.  Not since Kelsey Grammar and David Hyde Pierce on Frasier have two unrelated actors looked unquestionably related.  Of course, now Zach's character is dead too, so screw you again, writers.

[Badsamaritan]

In back to back posts we've got Charles Dickens and the 1988 vice presidential debates. And it's all on topic.

I love the internet.

Sleepy Hollow does not deserve its fanbase.

Ikr. I am still highly ragey, I can't even believe it. And I'm petty as fuck cuz I'm glad fans are still dragging this steaming pile of bullshit on social media. I took the FOX survey this morning and found about 126 ways to tell them Fuck You. I'm working on 126 more.

[xaxat]

I checked out after the first three episodes of this season because it didn't look like the creative staff got it's shit together after the disappointing season two. Came back for the season finale. Mistake. 

 

I'm still dreaming of a Butch and Sundance ending for the two Witnesses as they save the world. But I guess the staff sees the death of Abbie as a springboard to more interesting stories that will capture more viewers. 

 

HAHAHAHAHAH!

[Sparkling Beth]

By the way, there were several people on this board who have been expressing concern for some time that Abbie was being sidelined as a way of taking her off the show completely, and I would now like to publicly apologize to those people for my skepticism in response to that viewpoint.  You were right.  I was wrong.  I'm sorry I doubted you. 

[CooperTV]

So that's it for NB?  That came out of nowhere.  So they're going to find another female witness for Ichabod I guess.  Why don't they make it a guy, turn this into a bro show like Supernatural?

 

I was thinking more to the male Witness, and making it's romantic. Ichabod loves Abbie's soul, in romantic way. This soul now in the body of some hot dude who is, unlike Abbie (because these writers clearly stated this), would romantically and sexually attracted to Ichabod... I'd suggest Hawley (incredibly hot and has insane chemistry with Ichabod) but he's white, so that doesn't work with the bloodline theory.

 

I'd also watch the hell out of this show. We need mature version of Shadowhunters, stat.

 

...I'll see myself out.

Edited April 9, 2016 by CooperTV

[Lexxy]

I wonder if this will be the first time a fanbase has started a petition to NOT bring their show back. 

[blugirlami21]

Ikr? I'm still trying to see the show from the show runners pov. The show got moved to show dumping ground Friday, it gets very little promotion from Fox, and an average of about two and a half million weekly viewers.

These viewers only stuck around after the shit fest that was season two because Fox promised viewers more time spent on Abbie and on the partnership of Abbie and Ichabod.

And yet you still thought that you could kill half the partnership and stay golden? You sound braindead everytime you try to justify what you did. So please just stop beating a dead horse.

I too took that project fox survey and put every stupid storyline they did this season on blast. If only they had asked for viewers opinions before last night.

[Abra]

Would someone please explain/clarify for me what's gone on with the change in creative teams behind the show over the past three seasons? I've only caught things here and there, but never followed it closely. I think I read (here?) that the original team left after Season One (which explains a lot), but why?

 

Was there a hint back in Season One days of the disrespectful treatment Nicole Beharie receives, or did that come after?

Edited April 9, 2016 by Abra

[AmandaPanda]

I haven't followed the behind the scenes drama a ton, but here's the basic gist of it.

S1: Show is started by Kurtzman, Orci, Iscove, and Wiseman. 

S2: Kurtzman and Orci leave the show to focus on other shows and feature films. Goffman is promoted to show runner. Goffman is the one who was really passionate about writing for Katrina and elevated her character. 

S3: After huge fan backlash against everything to do with Katrina and Crane Family Drama, Goffman is fired and Clifton Campbell is brought in as show runner. 

[Pete Martell]

As far as the Star Trek reference goes... don't flatter yourself, Television Program. And also, no. Just no.

 

Yeah, The City on the Edge of Forever is a fantastic episode of television. It's haunting and memorable despite the cardboard sets, cheesy special effects, overacting, dated gender roles, and obvious plotholes.

 

The thing is, the woman who died to allow the future to go forward was a guest star. Guest characters generally exist to move the leads along. Star Trek was infamous for having a Babe of the Week who existed solely to remind Kirk (or occasionally one of the other male leads) how wonderful he was. It's something that a modern viewer can choose to dismiss with an eyeroll, or not. Later offerings of the Star Trek franchise corrected the gender roles issues, and Star Trek was generally ahead of its time when it came to race.

 

What happened here was different. The co-protagonist of the series was reduced to "plot device there to move the real lead along." It was a retcon. It was sexist. It was racist.

 

It was bad TV.

 

If you're saying Abbie Mills = Captain Kirk's Babe of the Week, fuck you, Television Program.

 

Not to mention that, as insulting as that trope was and is, they didn't even try to say she died for Kirk. As you said, they said she died in order to prevent the Allies from losing WWII. It was a horrific choice and it was presented as the only choice. If Spock had told Kirk some spiel about how she had to die to "move Kirk forward," Kirk would have ardently refused every time.

 

Hell, they didn't even get the manpain right. Imagine if Edith Keeler had died and then Spock had told Kirk that her spirit lived on somewhere and he went on shore leave to go find some random woman who would be the new Edith Keeler.  

 

How truly sad that a show from 50 years ago was more respectful of a guest star than Sleepy Hollow was of its female lead.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Pete Martell

[Blackhoney]

I’m still trying to come to grips with what happened and have found myself crying like a baby on and off for the past few hours. I think I was prepared for a number of possibilities during last night’s episode, but Abbie being killed was not one of them. I even wrote an article last week telling fans there was no way Abbie, the co-lead, would be killed off. I was truly blindsided and I feel a tremendous loss.

 

By killing Abbie they have erased her. They turned her into just another prop, ala every single woman that is in any way involved with Crane. They reduced her to just another Katrina, Betsy and even Caroline.

 

How does Crane go on without Abbie? Think about that for a minute. How? How does he survive without his other half?  Abbie was not just another chick there to move Crane along to the next level. She was his soul mate and his best friend. She loved him and always put him first. She would kill for him and die for him. She was his EVERYTHING. She fed him, clothed him, put a roof over his head. Abbie didn’t deserve to die and she doesn’t deserve to be forgotten about and cast aside.

 

Abbie Mills truly did deserve better. We all did.

I asked the show and writers on Twitter if they're patting themselves on the back for a job well done, since they've ignored the fans all along, so why should they stop now?

 

Horrible, disrespectful, and rude.

 

They keep saying how she wanted to leave, and I keep yelling, "BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOU TREATED HER!"

Which writer(s) confirmed Nicole wanted to leave? Link? Tweet?

[DeLurker]

Last night I felt like the kid in the Princess Bride -

 

Grandson:  Y-you read that wrong. She doesn't die, she lives on with Crane. I'm just sure of it. After all that she did for him, if she didn't live, it wouldn't be fair.
Grandfather:  Well, who says life is fair? Where is that written? Life isn't always fair.
Grandson:  I'm telling you, you're messing up the story, now get it right!

 

Stupid me - I was certain - absolutely certain - that when they found out that their wasn't enough witness soul in the box, that Crane would be the one to provide the rest and then the two witnesses would be one in  some form.

 

I even had hope after she went to have pie and ice cream with Corbin, Crane would find a way.  But then they made her babble some shite about "Danny" to Corbin.  And TPTB said "FU" to me.

 

I can't believe the way S3 was written was consistent with Nicole B.'s desire or best interest.  I truly hope she shows up again in something, on another station, worth her talent.

 

TM's a talented actor, but Crane without Abbie isn't enough for me.  If they had given Abbie a respectable ending, maybe I'd check it out.  But I think it was the final scene that says so much - Crane leaving Abbie behind (well, her headstone) as he gets into a caravan of SUVs with white guys in suits.  Crane asks "if he has a choice" and I will tell myself that TM asked TPTB the same thing.

 

I'm hopeful TM shows up another another show so I can appreciate his talent too.  Cause it won't be this one.

 

I retroactively wish this was not renewed after the first season.   S2 was painful, but at the end I had hope.  The S3 finale completely snuffed that out of me.

 

And I retroactively "thumbs up" the majority of the posts ahead of me.  You guys have been great.

[Yolapukka]

If I take it as a given that she wanted to leave, no hard feelings, no bad blood, no shenanigans, everyone wishes everybody else the best, Blah, blah blah..... I still find the final episode terrible.

 

Why did they opt to have her take her leave with dialogue that explicitly refuted the idea her character was significant in and of herself? 

 

Do they not realize that this turn tells the fans that much of what they enjoyed about the show was irrelevant?

 

And why was the rest of the episode such a wretched mess?  It was, it really was awful. Even if she had stayed I'd be questioning the show's direction.

 

ETA

Actually, let me concede that the first 15 minutes were pretty darn good and drew me in and then the fuckery started.... Which has pretty well been the pattern all season, Stuff I liked was spoiled or refuted by ill-conceived execution and payoff that was frequently dull.

Edited April 9, 2016 by yuggapukka

[Three]

 

Why did they opt to have her take her leave with dialogue that explicitly refuted the idea her character as significant in and of herself? 

 

Do they not realize that this turn tells the fans that much of what they enjoyed about the show was irrelevant?

 

I thought that this was Metzner's FU to the fans.  He and CC were the ones I was thinking of particularly when I mentioned insincerity earlier. Metzner's tweets yesterday were nauseating. I am imagining he felt quite gleeful - and powerful - when he was writing this.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Three

[DeLurker]

 

Not even sure I can watch the finale.

I am such a big fat liar.  I sucked it up through the Tales! of! Katrina! that was S2...I surely can watch the finale.

 

I will cut someone though if it is Danny & Abbie and SBR & Ich lurvefest and there is not another season.

 

I haven't drank in about 9 years (alcohol no longer tasted good), but I might have to slam a bit of tequila to steel my nerves.

Should have stuck with my first instincts.

 

I will take delight in deleting all the S3 eps off my DVR.

[CalamityBoPeep]

I will take delight in deleting all the S3 eps off my DVR.

 

I've done it. I also took the show off my dvr's series-recording list, off my Amazon watchlist (where I'd put it to share with my sister when I visit), and unliked the show on facebook. I buried the dvd's I'd bought in a cupboard where I won't see them.

 

I'm breaking up with the show, and making it final. 

[jhlipton]

I haven't followed the behind the scenes drama a ton, but here's the basic gist of it.

S1: Show is started by Kurtzman, Orci, Iscove, and Wiseman. 

S2: Kurtzman and Orci leave the show to focus on other shows and feature films. Goffman is promoted to show runner. Goffman is the one who was really passionate about writing for Katrina and elevated her character. 

S3: After huge fan backlash against everything to do with Katrina and Crane Family Drama, Goffman is fired and Clifton Campbell is brought in as show runner. 

 

My understanding is that Goffman came on in the second half of Season 1.

 

Hell, they didn't even get the manpain right. Imagine if Edith Keeler had died and then Spock had told Kirk that her spirit lived on somewhere and he went on shore leave to go find some random woman who would be the new Edith Keeler. 

 

Welcome to Haven. In that show's finale, Nathan declares his love for Audrey (who has gone into a mystical contrivance and won't be coming out -- sound familiar?) and that he won't have any substitute.  5 minutes later, a new avatar of Audrey shows up, and Nathan can't wait to jump into her car.   That show had devolved from a complex how-to-fix-it show to Nathan-Lurves-Audrey-and-Audrey-Lurves-Nathan-and -No-one-Else-Matters a while back, so the outrage wasn't quite to the level here.

[Clanstarling]

Welcome to Haven. In that show's finale, Nathan declares his love for Audrey (who has gone into a mystical contrivance and won't be coming out -- sound familiar?) and that he won't have any substitute.  5 minutes later, a new avatar of Audrey shows up, and Nathan can't wait to jump into her car.   That show had devolved from a complex how-to-fix-it show to Nathan-Lurves-Audrey-and-Audrey-Lurves-Nathan-and -No-one-Else-Matters a while back, so the outrage wasn't quite to the level here.

Ahh, man. I'd forgotten about that. Banished it from my mind. Thanks a lot. Just kidding. I watched it to the bitter end, but I learned my lesson. I've started quitting shows - which I never used to do. This makes three this season, but the one I'm most upset about.

[catrice2]

I agree with many, Abbie aside, the whole episode was a mess!  They ruined Headless,and the the deaths of Pandora and The Hidden One was underwhelming.  The whole thing was boring. 

[Sparkling Beth]

You know what?  I still haven't figured out what reason there might have been for bringing in Betsy Ross this season.  Think about it--did her appearances in the show change anything?  Yeah, she made the flag, but that's something that could have been referred to in conversation and its secrets exposed in one of Ichabod's many books.  We didn't actually have to see Betsy.  She was an annoyance that served no purpose.

[festivus]

I'm actually wondering who would want to watch this show now. I didn't even become a romantic shipper until almost the end so that's not the reason I watched. I watched it  first and foremost for the character of Abbie Mills. Now the ship has crashed into an iceberg and Abbie Mills is dead. There were people I guess that watched it for Crane and Katrina and that's over too. I really don't know what audience is left. But wait a minute...

 

I was thinking more to the male Witness, and making it's romantic. Ichabod loves Abbie's soul, in romantic way. This soul now in the body of some hot dude who is, unlike Abbie (because these writers clearly stated this), would romantically and sexually attracted to Ichabod... I'd suggest Hawley (incredibly hot and has insane chemistry with Ichabod) but he's white, so that doesn't work with the bloodline theory.

 

I could perhaps be persuaded to watch again if that happened. ;) No but seriously, I'm done. The show was mostly about Abbie for me and with her gone I'm just not interested.

Edited April 9, 2016 by festivus

[wtfsleepyhollow]

so, i just registered to respond to the season finale!!

 

1) i thought, oh she's dead, maybe nicole will just be in someone else's body, they will work it through.

 

2) come here to find out SHE LEFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHEEEEEE LEEEEEEFT!!!!! 

 

OMG! I am beyond pissed off!! why would they do this?? she was amazing, he was amazing with her, they were a perfect couple, even if no relationship, they as just friends was amazing!! 

 

joe is dead

we're stuck with boring danny and sophie

jenny is in the winds ( who knows where she will end up??? is she gone too???) why, why do this to us??? i loved joe and jenny as a couple, they made me love them, and where are they now???? i didn't even get a true reaction to joe's death other than a few tears and a sad face!! joe deserved better, JENNY deserved better!!

 

and worse of all, my girl is gone!! i loved this show because of their strong coloured girls!! every time i watch a show, i see a black man all i think is that poor man is gonna die a horrible death (look what has been happening on gotham, and fox owns that show too, i guess this is the new fox pattern). now, abbie gone, she's dead, and so are ichabbie!! i just can't!!!

 

goodbye sleepy hollow, i will always love and remember you in season 1 and 2 and in fanfiction, but the show, and the producers go fuck yourselves, you buried yourselves!!!

[WordsWordsWords]

Bless this show's little heart. The chemistry between NB and TM was the thing that kept me coming back through everything. I can understand why NB wanted off this show, but I'm going to miss her. Assuming,of course that (a) the show's renewed and (b) I watch it.

 

Nikki Reed bugs me even when she has only 3 minutes or so of screen time. Betsy Ross is the only role I've seen her play, so I might be wrong about her general woodenness. Some of the Betsy problem, I think, is the dialogue itself. It reads too modern. The other part is NR's delivery which is completely modern. That's how the writers get Crane right -- his dialogue reads 18th century and then TM speaks with a slightly archaic cadence. NR gets modern-sounding dialogue and then says it with modern cadences. Well, mostly. Some of it, I fear, is still wooden talent failure.

[wtfsleepyhollow]

You know what?  I still haven't figured out what reason there might have been for bringing in Betsy Ross this season.  Think about it--did her appearances in the show change anything?  Yeah, she made the flag, but that's something that could have been referred to in conversation and its secrets exposed in one of Ichabod's many books.  We didn't actually have to see Betsy.  She was an annoyance that served no purpose.

 

on top of that, why was she in this episode, she essentially had no point other than to  break ichabod's heart!!

 

and it doesn't make sense with katrinia's story either. katrinia nursed a newly defected ichabod back to health, and that is when their romance began, so when did betsy come in?? i thought it was a funny and cute one liner in s1, now they just bring her in for no purpose what so ever!! 

 

instead of giving us what we really want, ichabbie!! >:(

[Sparger Springs]

I was just thinking they knew before season 3 started that Nicole was leaving. They couldn't be bothered to think of a decent way for her to leave.  The story of Pandora and her crazy husband was never that good. Then they kill them 1/2 way into the finale. Whatever. They could've made it like the witnesses had to be separated because,reasons. Then we would all hold are breaths and hope Nicole would come back some day. They didn't have to kill her. You know when an actor leaves a show it doesn't always have to be death.  

 

I need for this to be cancelled asap.

[tomorrowgirl]

After last night's episode, I now wish that the show had ended after the first season.  I loved the two character's friendship and the fact that they were together, instead of Abbie being off in other dimensions, or away from Ichabod.  The show was great that first season, but it really lost its way.

[theatremouse]

You know what really gets me?  The way the producers are talking as if they expected the viewers to sit back and say, "Oh, my, that was a bold choice!" instead of "WHAT THE FUCK??!!!"

I am baffled as to how they could remotely find themselves "bold" for this. Even as I was watching it (and not knowing how conclusive it would be), I was thinking "ok, so they seem to only understand how to write exactly one finale". Abbie goes to purgatory. Abbie goes to catacombs. Abbie goes into the box. Every. Fucking. Time. Abbie jumps through some sort of portal to be some savior. So because they've established this incredibly redundant pattern, there is exactly zero that is interesting or dramatic about any of it.

They undercut themselves at every turn, and the writing was never good to begin with. How much gravitas can there be in the catacombs thing they did before, when now Ich and Abbie just pop on it for a visit and then pop on out easy peasy? And they made us sit through so many pointless scenes of Betsy Ross, and they HAVE to go down there to find her, to what? Talk to her for three minutes and say "ok, leave now, that way, bye!" What was the fucking point? There was none and it was all too easy.

Even the fight scene was too easy. Call your horseman, axe here, soul zap there, gunshot, bam done. It just screamed "these thing are happening because we wrote them to happen, in this order, cuz we said so, not because careful thought or planning or logic or 'how could this happen' went into it." There's no "figuring out" how to defeat the baddie...they just...did. It was, as I've come to expect from this writing staff, completely underwhelming. I loved the character Abbie Mills; for me, the show was about her; and they managed to kill her off and make me not give a shit at all, because of course that's what they'd do, because it's all they do. Even now that I know for sure it wasn't something they're just going to undo three episodes in next season (should there be one) I'm already so 'meh, I've basically had a non-reaction. I'm not even upset. Just, ok great, now I won't even be tempted to watch anymore, and I hope she goes and does a great film or something.

Edited April 11, 2016 by theatremouse

[Sparger Springs]

on top of that, why was she in this episode, she essentially had no point other than to  break ichabod's heart!!

 

and it doesn't make sense with katrinia's story either. katrinia nursed a newly defected ichabod back to health, and that is when their romance began, so when did betsy come in?? i thought it was a funny and cute one liner in s1, now they just bring her in for no purpose what so ever!! 

 

instead of giving us what we really want, ichabbie!! >:(

I thought the Betsy story line was disrespectful.  I just couldn't imagine Icahabod Crane running around with a woman that wasn't his wife in the 1700s.  We know he was most definitely married.  They should have kept original busty white woman Katrina in the 1700's and used her for flashbacks instead of the nonsense of season 2. I felt Ichabod's friend should've been a man.

[tennisgurl]

You know I was trying to come up with something positive about this episode. I guess it was nice that they brought in Clancy Brown in to talk with Abby, and it was nice he got to see Joe...but that made me mad that they pointlessly killed Joe last week...which made me mad again about how much they misused John Noble...which made me mad about the whole obsession with boring Crane family drama...and then I was just mad. Great.  

[Fosca]

Stupid me - I was certain - absolutely certain - that when they found out that their wasn't enough witness soul in the box, that Crane would be the one to provide the rest and then the two witnesses would be one in  some form.

 

 

This is EXACTLY how it should have ended.  I'm going to spend the evening convincing myself this is what I actually saw.

 

And if they wanted to keep the show going, they could have not killed Joe (or unkilled him--I'm imagining a scene with August and Ichabod and Abbie and Joe in the coffee shop and Joe deciding to go back . . . ) and then have Joe and Jenny become the next witnesses.  I might have actually watched that--probably not for long, but at least I wouldn't wish I'd never started watching the damn show in the first place.  

Edited April 9, 2016 by Fosca

[Blackhoney]

I don't believe anyone from this season is coming back, not even Lyndie Greenwood. I think if they get a season four they'll wanna act like Abbie never existed, the same way they acted like Katrina never existed this season. Jenny will be a constant reminder of Abbie and I don't think the writers will want that.

Of the 7 characters in the opening credits three are dead (Abbie, Joe, Pandora), one got sent back to her own time frame and presumably lived and died (Betsy), one only existed because of Abbie (Reynolds) and the other is completely disposable (Sophie).

With Abbie dead the FBI angle is no longer needed, so you can basically kiss Danny and Sophie goodbye.

In every way imaginable next season, should the show be renewed, will be a complete reboot. I predict Tom Mison will be the sole star, with only his face on the poster. Other than that, I have no idea what the producers will do in order to win back old fans or new ones.

[phoenics]

I agree - I think LG is gone next season - they are going to completely reboot the whole thing to focus solely around Mison... and by next season, the tidbit that Abbie's soul needs to be within a distant relative will be forgotten, so they can cast a non-black woman.

The hubris in the decision is amazing to me. I'm honestly stunned.

But for me the show is over - so whatever it comes back as, I'm finished with that.

[CalamityBoPeep]

I agree - I think LG is gone next season - they are going to completely reboot the whole thing to focus solely around Mison... and by next season, the tidbit that Abbie's soul needs to be within a distant relative will be forgotten, so they can cast a non-black woman.

The hubris in the decision is amazing to me. I'm honestly stunned.

But for me the show is over - so whatever it comes back as, I'm finished with that.

 

Honestly, they'd probably see no reason not to cast a non-black woman and still say that she's a distant cousin of Abbie's. I wouldn't put it past these writers. It'd be disgusting, but they'd do it just so that they could eventually pursue the romance angle in a way that might feel "safer" to them. I'm not going to be there for it either. Just no.

[TaurusRose]

I don't believe anyone from this season is coming back, not even Lyndie Greenwood. I think if they get a season four they'll wanna act like Abbie never existed, the same way they acted like Katrina never existed this season. Jenny will be a constant reminder of Abbie and I don't think the writers will want that.

Of the 7 characters in the opening credits three are dead (Abbie, Joe, Pandora), one got sent back to her own time frame and presumably lived and died (Betsy), one only existed because of Abbie (Reynolds) and the other is completely disposable (Sophie).

With Abbie dead the FBI angle is no longer needed, so you can basically kiss Danny and Sophie goodbye.

In every way imaginable next season, should the show be renewed, will be a complete reboot. I predict Tom Mison will be the sole star, with only his face on the poster. Other than that, I have no idea what the producers will do in order to win back old fans or new ones.

I totally agree with your assessment and said as much in another thread. Don't expect to see any of the current cast except TM next year. I have thoroughly enjoyed TM's work in SH, but I won't watch him w/o Abbie. I just won't. Also, Crane & Abbie are canon in my book and always will be. I'm not letting those sorry motherfuckers (and I almost NEVER use that word) rain on my parade. They can all BURN. IN. HELL.

Edited April 10, 2016 by taurusrose

[Badsamaritan]

I agree - I think LG is gone next season - they are going to completely reboot the whole thing to focus solely around Mison... and by next season, the tidbit that Abbie's soul needs to be within a distant relative will be forgotten, so they can cast a non-black woman.

The hubris in the decision is amazing to me. I'm honestly stunned.

But for me the show is over - so whatever it comes back as, I'm finished with that.

I can see it now, a TV version of Teena Marie - White girl with the soul of a black woman. And still, they will never be Abbie. Or Teena Marie for that matter. BOTH were the real deal.

[Nanrad]

God, I will miss Tom Mison to death. Seriously. I know no one cares about him, but I do. I'll miss that brillant chameleon. Best wished to Tom Mison, Nicole Beharie, Lyndie Greenwood, Zack Appelman, Shannon Sossaman, Peter Mensah et all. You all were awesome and engaging characters. Hope to see you soon.

 

I raise my glass of wine to you.

People care about TM, but it is quite obvious that NB was mistreated and has been for a while. We don't know about BTS, but character and story wise, they did a disservice to NB and AB.

 

======

 

For the first half of the episode, I was worried about Abbie needing to be saved yet again, but little did I know, afterwards, I would prefer that to her being permanently killed off and her soul being transferred into another body.

 

For the life of me, I cannot believe that NB wanted for leave for any reason other than being mistreated. Every job I wanted to leave was due to feeling mistreated or overall dissatisfaction. You don't leave jobs you enjoy, pays well, doesn't conflict with anything in your personal life. It reminds me of a character that was killed off on another show two seasons ago, they left because they wanted to do other things, but the character wasn't mistreated. I was upset, but accepted it (and stopped watching the show). This person also wasn't a lead, where as NB is. Unless you know for certain the show will be cancelled in the first season and you auditioned to get your name out there or whatever, NO ONE signs up for a SHOW--A FUCKING SHOW--to only be in it for 2-3 season UNLESS it's a mini-series or a BBC show. WE could argue that NB didn't know what it was like to be apart of a show, but I say that's fucking bullshit and I do believe some shit went on behind the scenes that prompted her to leave.

 

And it's ironically funny that she wanted to leave DURING season 2--you know, the season in which a lot of fans left. The season that had an abundance of CFD, the season that side lined Abbie or underutilized her. 

 

This whole thing was bullshit because Zoe and Danny shouldn't have EVER happened. NEVER EVER. And I don't want to hear none of that, "it was non romantic love" fuckery. It was NOT. There is no reason for Zoe to end things with Crane because he loved someone else, there was no reason for Betsy to even make her remark, or the other SEVERAL THOUSAND remarks/implications/subtext that supported that Crane was in love with Abbie. What was the fucking point??? There is no reason for anyone to comment on your feelings for someone else in such a way if it's not romantic. This was a misdirection because they knew that Ichabbie, whether it be romantic or just bonding, is what kept the few remaining fans coming back. It is downright disrespectful that they'd use fans like that to end the SERIES with Abbie's death.

 

Instead, they should've built up Abbie and Crane throughout the first half of the third season, and then had them be together romantically---they could use whatever labels they liked--by the mid series finale. There should've been no J/J, no unnecessary lingering feelings for supporting characters, just them and getting shit done and how they change in their relationship complicates, but positively strengthens their bond. When Pandora explains that the box needs the rest of Abbie's soul, Crane tries to volunteer half of his, but the box rejects his because it must be one complete soul and it already started with Abbie or some other bullshit.

 

So Abbie dies and Crane SPAZZES THE FUCK OUT. We see him ugly cry and lose his shit as he tries to find a way to see if Abbie can be saved. FF to the box exploding and either Crane hits his head too hard or part of the tunnel crumbles and a rock hits hit/debris lethally punctures him--he's fading in and out of consciousness. It is then that the scene on the porch happens. Instead of Abbie saying that bullshit she told him about carrying him, the conversation should've went like this:

 

Jail Cell Scene:

Abbie: (warm) Crane... 

 

Crane: Abbie (overjoyed and relieved) Unlock the door; lets go home.

 

Abbie: You're not going back, Crane. We're not going back. (Their hands touch on the jail bars; Abbie slightly caresses his) It's time we made our peace. (tender and sorrowful. Abbie slow backs up and begins to leave).

 

Crane: No Abbie, Abbie don't. Abbie. (Transition scene)

 

The Archives:

Crane: I saw the box take you.

 

Abbie: It did. It used my soul, but now the box is broken to bits. You saw to that. I'm free. We are eternal souls, Crane.

 

Crane: What does that mean?

 

Abbie: Well, I don't really know myself, but I couldn't go into the light. There was an old friend there who came to tell me that my job is done.

 

Crane: And this place...where are we?

 

Abbie: It's a waiting room between life and death. I am being called (looks cryptically at him).

 

Crane: No, Abbie, we began this journey together, we will end it together.

 

Abbie: Our journey isn't over, but for a witness, it never truly is. But...Abbie Mills and Ichabod Crane have done what we were supposed to do.

 

*Abbie leads him into the next scene*

 

Abbie's Porch:

Crane: I don't understand.

 

Abbie: Don't try, it's more something...you feel. (she rests her head on his shoulder and their fingers intertwine)

 

Crane: Your whole life has finally fallen into place.

 

Abbie (smiles lovingly at him): Mmm...yes, it has. I made peace with it, Crane. Whatever this next stage is, I'm ready. It's time for a new beginning. 

 

Crane: What is there for me in a world without you?

 

Abbie: You've had mentors like Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and partners like Betsy Ross and me; Washington knew you had a destiny, but not the significance of it. (Crane looks confused and Abbie chuckles) We're kinda of like Doctor Who's: incarnations of the same thing, but for us, it's eternal souls. We come back again and again, but never as the same person. Think about it: We've existed since Sumerian times--at least. If we were meant to be the same person--the same people, why don't we ever retain our memories or, hell, even die for that matter? Like I said, I don't really understand it, but maybe our roles as witnesses, each incarnation, is to carry the mission forward for the next incarnation during whenever the time they are alive. Because this mission, this huge, life altering and consuming mission, is more than two people should have to fight for centuries--there has to be others. And can you honestly say, Crane, that we haven't done that? That we've haven't carried the mission forward? Face it: our job is done.

 

Crane: No, no, it can't be--it just doesn't make sense.

 

Abbie: But, doesn't it? It's time to make peace, Crane. You reminded me that we began our journey together, and then declared that we'd end it together, but we can't if you refuse to move on. Our chapter is over, let the next witnesses begin theirs. They'll take over the monster bashing responsibilities, okay? And they'll figure it out just like we did. I'm ready for our new beginning. 

 

Crane: (stops fighting his death and the end of their mission as he looks at Abbie) *the feeling comes over him* I--I am too. (kisses her forehead)

 

Abbie: (widely grins) My my, be still my beating heart. (on a somber note) Crane...whatever you and I were led to believe about what being a Witness meant, I'm going to miss too: we did a lot of good; actually, we did more than that: we honored our bond, we were brave, and we were strong. And I know they'll be too. 

 

Crane: (raises a finger) But, not as kick ass as us.

 

Abbie (lets out a bellyaching laugh as tears fall down her face): Oh no, nowhere as near as kick ass as us. (Crane wipes her face) You're my guy, always.

 

Crane: And you're my, leftenant, always. (Crane kisses her forehead and her nose. Their mouth linger dangerously close to one another before they kiss)

 

Present Day:

 

Jenny: (frantic) Crane! Crane!

 

Jenny checks for Crane's pulse. It gets weaker and weaker. Finally, Crane takes his last breath as life leaves his eyes.

 

FADE TO BLACK

 

And the other poster was right: the show kept trying to undermine Ichabbie, but frequently having Abbie deny that there was anything more, but most erroneously, they propped up Danny's significance in all of this. There was a lot of telling and not showing that Danny and Abbie had some special, deep love and that they cared for one another in such a way. Not only was the chemistry NOT there, neither was adequate support material or actions. TM played IC as a man madly in love with AM, LC played a man who may have been in love, but was also irrationally jealous and, sometimes, unnecessarily possessive. NB was far more responsive to TM as well as AB even without the Witness stuff. 

 

I also think that Abbie shouldn't had been as trusting of her father due to abandonment issues, but realizing at the last moment she needed to put that aside and focus on how to forgive. It seems as if that was easily rectified in the end. 

 

TBH, Crane should've die AND we were robbed of seeing his reaction as well as everyone else reactions to Abbie's death. If Danny was so fucking important and the love of Abbie's life or whatever the hell they were trying to imply, why was the last time we saw him BEFORE her death and it was just her going in the office, and then leaving to find Pandora. He, just like Zoe, Betsy, and other women, was just there to keep Ichabbie from happening. TM played IC like a man in love and the series has consistently led us to believe he is; NB plays a woman who is afraid to let anyone inside her heart, but was suppressing her feelings for IC. Then, the fist bump on the porch. FUCK THAT SHIT.

 

I can't watch this next season. I watched SH PURELY for their chemistry. I could bare with them not being together no matter how much I wanted it, but one of the lead characters were killed off??? And it's suspected foul play??? Although SH is no where the force the X-Files were, has FOX not learned their lesson? If your leads are constantly praised for their chemistry, which is the driving force behind the ratings, YOU DON'T KILL OFF ONE OF THEM OR EVEN CONTINUE THE SHOWS FOR THAT MATTER. FOX either loves to cancel shit before it hit it's stride or milk it until it's dry, there is NO in between. Fuck'em.

 

ETA: I mistakenly typed Caroline rather than Zoe, if you see a remaining Caroline, I meant Zoe.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Nanrad

[Yolapukka]

I agree that given the ending, there is no guarantee that anything other than Ichabod will be retained. As things stand, with Ichabod departing for Washington, they seem to have removed Sleepy Hollow from Sleepy Hollow. Most of the holdover characters are tied to Abbie, who is no longer part of the show. They may have no desire to write story for them in her absence or only use them as recurring characters. The show may not even retain the supernatural elements, could go more in a conspiracy direction or bring in sci-fi elements. The producers might as well rename the show and consider it a new property. 

[CalamityBoPeep]

 

I can't watch this next season. I watched SH PURELY for their chemistry. I could bare with them not being together no matter how much I wanted it, but one of the lead characters were killed off??? And it's suspected foul play??? Although SH is no where the force the X-Files were, has FOX not learned their lesson? If your leads are constantly praised for their chemistry, which is the driving force behind the ratings, YOU DON'T KILL OFF ONE OF THEM OR EVEN CONTINUE THE SHOWS FOR THAT MATTER. FOX either loves to cancel shit before it hit it's stride or milk it until it's dry, there is NO in between. Fuck'em.

 

Love your whole post! But... when you're saying Caroline, do you mean Zoe? Caroline was the reenactor that got killed by the veiled watery woman in that one episode. (And, I liked Caroline so much better than Zoe, for the record, but still would have been annoyed to see her getting in the way of Ichabbie. Last season, it might have been fun to explore a relationship with Caroline... this season, not so much.)

[Nanrad]

Love your whole post! But... when you're saying Caroline, do you mean Zoe? Caroline was the reenactor that got killed by the veiled watery woman in that one episode. (And, I liked Caroline so much better than Zoe, for the record, but still would have been annoyed to see her getting in the way of Ichabbie. Last season, it might have been fun to explore a relationship with Caroline... this season, not so much.)

Thank you. I'll edit this. 

 

You see that she was so insignificant, I forgot her name. lol

[jhlipton]

Abbie's "journey is done; her mission is complete"...  without learning about, much less reacting to, Danny spying and using her.  Yeah, right.

 

If they wanted Danny and Abbie to be "end-game" (as the kids say), they should have dropped all the Ichabbie stuff, and kept their relationship respectful and professional.  But noooooooooooooooo....

[phoenics]

Abbie's "journey is done; her mission is complete"...  without learning about, much less reacting to, Danny spying and using her.  Yeah, right.

 

If they wanted Danny and Abbie to be "end-game" (as the kids say), they should have dropped all the Ichabbie stuff, and kept their relationship respectful and professional.  But noooooooooooooooo....

What amazes me is that they KNEW teasing Ichabbie was keeping their ratings up... but they honestly think this show can survive without Ichabbie? WTF!

[vanarnd1]

What amazes me is that they KNEW teasing Ichabbie was keeping their ratings up... but they honestly think this show can survive without Ichabbie? WTF!

I think it would be actively offensive for most fans to watch them try to incorporate a new witness into the show. Usually after a bad finale for most shows I try to give the next season premiere a chance, but I am not sure If I stomach this. They are in for a rude awakening next fall if the show gets renewed. It will be a sharp drop off IMO.

[PaisleyPark]

Unless you know for certain the show will be cancelled in the first season and you auditioned to get your name out there or whatever, NO ONE signs up for a SHOW--A FUCKING SHOW--to only be in it for 2-3 season UNLESS it's a mini-series or a BBC show.  And it's ironically funny that she wanted to leave DURING season 2--you know, the season in which a lot of fans left. The season that had an abundance of CFD, the season that side lined Abbie or underutilized her. 

 

If your leads are constantly praised for their chemistry, which is the driving force behind the ratings, YOU DON'T KILL OFF ONE OF THEM OR EVEN CONTINUE THE SHOWS FOR THAT MATTER. 

YEEEEESSSSSS!!!!  Your first paragraph.....I said the same thing in another thread!!  Who's buying that she just organically wanted to spread her wings after JUST TWO seasons?!?!?!  I know you mentioned she wanted to leave during season two, but I believe the article said she had wanted to leave after season 2 was done.  Gee, how ironic (only not!) that that's the season she got sidelined in stories and wasn't asked to do commentary for the DVD.  I mean, seriously!  This stuff is not coincidental!!  C'mon now!

 

As for killing off one half of the LEAD PAIR that keeps this show going in the first place.....there are just no words. None.  It will never, ever make sense no matter how much the writers try to sell it.

[Yolapukka]

The finale for this bluedilly fuck of a show should have been scheduled to air a week before it actually did. It would have been the only fitting date.

[Happytobehere]

Thoughts on this debacle of an episode and everything that led up to it: http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/sleepy-hollow-just-lost-any-faith-fans-had-left-in-it.html

[Leia1979]

Nooooooooooooooo! I had kind of a sad week and was looking forward to SH cheering me up. I was convinced Crane would find a way to save Abbie. I should have known something something was wrong when people started acknowledging Crane's feelings for Abbie. That was some Joss Whedon-level heartbreak...like this episode is now up there with Angel's "A Hole in the World" for my most hated episodes of television.

 

 FF to the box exploding and either Crane hits his head too hard or part of the tunnel crumbles and a rock hits hit/debris lethally punctures him--he's fading in and out of consciousness. It is then that the scene on the porch happens. Instead of Abbie saying that bullshit she told him about carrying him, the conversation should've went like this:

 

This alternate scene (too long to quote) made me feel better, thank you. Honestly, if the writers knew Nicole Beharie was leaving, they should have just ended the show. I'd accept Crane and Abbie off in the afterlife, but even better would be to defeat the Hidden One and Pandora, rescue Abbie, acknowledge Joe's death, and imply that the fight continues on with their new, even more extended team, even though their televised adventures are over. Heck, end it with a flash-forward to Crane getting his U.S. citizenship with Abbie and Jenny in attendance at the ceremony. That would make for a lovely ending scene.

 

I actually hope SH is cancelled now--I don't want it to go on without Abbie. I'm gonna go find some fanfic now and pretend this never happened.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Leia1979

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If the writers knew Nicole was leaving for awhile, why couldn't they at least have given her a beautiful send-off, instead of screwing around with the whole Danny thing and then having her disappear (yet again) into some other dimension?

ITA - the least they could have done was cut the extraneous crap with Danny, Betsy, etc. and let us have a season full of beautiful Abbie/Crane scenes!

[AnnaMayWong]

I stopped viewing The Show in real time a couple of months ago. Instead, I DVRed it because I was afraid something like this would occur, and I needed that advanced knowledge to determine if I would continue watching.

I'm glad that I did that. The anger that I would have felt if I actually viewed this ridiculousness, well...

Needless to say, I will be deleting my UNviewed episodes and will not be a next season viewer.